(image by Barry Koch)
(first posted 12/10/2014) In the annals of automotive history, there are few cars that played such a pivotal role as the 1965 Cadillac Seville. It is the first in that long line of Sevilles that powered the Cadillac brand to global domination of the premium market to this day. It presciently anticipated the growing influx of Mercedes in the early sixties and countered it with a formula so successful it was even embraced enthusiastically by the Germans themselves. It brilliantly synthesized the very best of American and European qualities into a new global standard, one that gave new meaning to Cadillac’s boast of being “The Standard of the World”.
And how did this unlikely event come about? In 1962, John DeLorean, Director of Engineering at Pontiac, wrote a memo titled The Growing Threat From Untertürkheim, which was circulated on the 14th floor, but made little impact since most of the GM execs had no idea what or where Untertürkheim was. Fortunately, one exec took it upon himself to add “Mercedes Headquarters” to the title, and redistributed it.
The memo predicted that influential upper-income Americans primarily in large coastal cities were on the cusp of embracing the Mercedes as their preferred premium brand, and that Cadillac was highly vulnerable to defection by this influential demographic. What led to this?
There were a number of converging reasons, but one of the biggest had to do with the decline in Cadillac’s uniqueness and prestige. This had been in the works for some time, but in 1959, when the Cadillac and Chevrolet actually shared the same body, the trend accelerated. In the 1950s, at least the larger C-Body was still unique from the smaller B-Body. From 1959 on, that would not be so, as the C-Body was just a stretched B-Body. Cadillac’s exclusivity was compromised.
Another issue was size. Whereas size (more of it) once conveyed prestige, that paradigm was crumbling, thanks to the Cadillac’s continual growth in the 1950s, and the rising interest in smaller luxury imports. Women in particular complained about the excessive size. Cadillac responded rather feebly to this with the 1961-1964 “short deck” sedans, with a shortened trunk to slightly improve parking and maneuverability in cities.
The brochure rendering doesn’t bring the point home properly, as does this actual 1963 Park Avenue. It looks…truncated, and unbalanced. And these short deck Cadillacs sold poorly. This was not a proper solution.
DeLorean was a firm believer in the potential of smaller cars with American-style performance and Euro-style handling and braking. His 1961 Tempest with rear transaxle and independent rear suspension was an ambitious if somewhat underdeveloped effort to build such a car. The 1963 version even sported a 326 CID V8, making a potent package that inspired DeLorean’s next act.
Bunkie Knudsen, Pontiac’s GM, had hired DeLorean from Packard in 1956, and was his mentor. When Knudsen was promoted to GM President in 1962, DeLorean now had an angel on the 14th floor. DeLorean’s proposal to build the 1964 GTO was enthusiastically supported, although DeLorean had moved to Cadillac before it was actually built. But this success was a huge boost to both of their careers.
Knudsen was the one who had made sure DeLorean’s The Growing Threat From Untertürkheim memo was seen by all on the 14th floor, and took up its cause with fervor. He had promoted DeLorean to Cadillac with the specific task to research and act upon the premise, rather than spending his time developing an even bigger new Cadillac for 1965.
DeLorean was vaguely aware of Opel’s development plans for a new family of mid-upper tier sedans, the Kapitän, Admiral and Diplomat. But when he flew to Russelsheim in the fall of 1962, he was pleasantly surprised to see what the Opel designers and engineers were cooking up for a spring 1964 launch.
These were all-new cars, with a rigid unibody structure and a 112″ wheelbase. That alone caught DeLorean’s attention, as the 1961-1963 Tempest/LeMans sat on a 112″ wheelbase too, a size he favored. This, combined with an overall length of 194″, put the K-A-D car just a nick below GM’s new 1964 intermediate cars, with their 115″ wheelbase and 203″ length (in case of the Tempest).
DeLorean had already given serious consideration to the notion of using the new A-Body as the basis of the new small Cadillac. The Chevelle body (center) in particular shared a certain familial resemblance to the softer, less edgy styling Cadillac would wear in 1965. The Opel also shared many styling elements with the Chevelle, and had some compelling advantages to the Chevelle for the basis of a world-class premium car.
DeLorean was very impressed with the structural rigidity, tight gaps and overall quality of the unibody Opel body, all of which were a substantial notch above anything being built in the US by GM. The Germans (and other Europeans) had long understood the importance of a rigid body structure, which allowed the suspension system to work to its best advantage. This explains why many European companies like Mercedes adopted four wheel independent suspensions as far back as in the 1930s. It afforded a reasonably soft ride but excellent compliance, as well as good control if high-quality shock absorbers were part of the equation.
Another compelling aspect was that the Opels were being engineered to take a Chevrolet V8, to be optional on the mid-line Admiral and standard on the top-tier Diplomat. This would save a huge amount of re-engineering. In fact, quite little would be necessary to make the Opel suitable for US sale, except for fitting proper integrated air conditioning, electric seats and power windows, and a few other amenities. But those were all readily available from the domestic A-Body cars.
There was only one misgiving: the roof line and C-Pillar on the Opel sedans was very prosaic, with a decided Chevy II look to them. Even with a vinyl roof, it just didn’t convey the look that DeLorean had in mind.
When he shared his thoughts on that, the Opel designers showed him their drawings for a coupe version of the Diplomat, that was scheduled to go into production some nine months after the sedan. It looked remarkably like the ’63 Grand Prix he had championed just a year earlier, which was just going into production at that very time. Aha! That’s exactly what he was looking for, not just for a coupe version of the new small Caddy, but also as the basis for the sedan.
(image by Barry Koch)
It suddenly all congealed, and DeLorean could practically see the coupe version in his mind’s eye. And he knew now this was it, as well as all the specs for the rest of the transformation, thanks to the best and latest goodies from the Detroit mothership: the fully-independent rear suspension from the Corvette and its brand new four-wheel disc brake system. The superb new THM-400 three-speed automatic that Cadillac had just begun using in 1964. Beefy Michelin steel-belted radial tires. And under the hood?
DeLorean wanted to see fuel injection under the hood, as used on Chevy’s brilliant 327 (5.4 L) V8. That would be a point of contention.
DeLorean wrote up the proposal for a new small Cadillac on the plane home. Knudsen loved it, and despite pushback from Chairman Donner and other execs who couldn’t fathom the need for a smaller Cadillac, never mind one with an Opel as its basis. But Pontiac’s overwhelming success during these years gave Knudsen the edge, and the new small Cadillac was quickly approved and funded by the Board, with a production target of April 1964, as an early 1965 MY car.
DeLorean put together a crack team of designers and engineers, and the project was given a name: Seville. It would be priced above the bigger DeVille, as it was not going to be sold by the pound or inch. The Seville was going head-to-head with Mercedes and Jaguar, and it needed to be fully competitive.
The Opel’s interior was of very high quality, but the dash looked like a Chevelle’s, even with the wood. That wouldn’t do. But the solution was readily at hand.
DeLorean had the 1964 GTO’s excellent dash adapted, with higher quality components and genuine wood veneer. The four large gauges had full instrumentation. A real wood steering wheel was standard, as well as high-quality leather upholstery.
The perforated leather specced for the Diplomat and Seville was every bit as good as the optional Mercedes leather, and the front seats were carefully contoured for maximum support and comfort. Everything was coming together with the best that GM had to offer on both sides of the Atlantic.
(image by Barry Koch)
The biggest challenge lay behind the Seville’s hidden headlights. The easy and obvious solution was to drop in the Chevy 327 V8, in whatever state of tune was most appropriate for the job. But DeLorean worried about how that might be perceived. Yes, the Chevy V8 had an excellent rep for performance and efficiency, but was its lowly provenance going to be a deterrent?
There was an alternative: Olds had a brand new engine arriving in 1964, the first of its generation2 V8s, with 330 cubic inches (5.4 Liters) and built with a high nickel content block. And it made plenty of power; as installed in the 1965 Cutlass, it was rated at 315 (gross) hp.
For the Seville, the Olds V8 was assembled on a special line with all-premium components, including a forged crankshaft. This engine was designed to be “autobahn safe”, standing up to high-speed full-throttle runs for extended periods.
The fight over standard fuel injection (or not) made the 14th floor a place to avoid for some weeks. In order to supply the quantities needed, Rochester would have to tool up, and the unit was pricy to start with. But with increased production volumes as well as some efficiencies achieved through a thorough refinement actually decreased unit costs by 43%, and ended up paving the way for GM to step up development of a new generation of advanced and cost-effective fuel injection systems to be widely adopted over the coming years, thereby vaulting it to the world leader in FI production, efficiency and technology.
As installed, the Seville V8 was rated at 320 hp gross hp (255 net hp). There was considerable discussion about a higher performance version, but that was wisely tabled. There was to be only one Seville, with all of its dynamic qualities carefully tuned to satisfy both someone moving from a traditional Cadillac as well as the most discriminating European car buyer.
More effort went into refining and tuning the Seville’s suspension than any other GM car ever to date. Seville mules, trimmed externally like the Opel Diplomat, were subjected to extensive testing over the most grueling conditions. Koni developed special shock absorbers that allowed a surprisingly supple suspension, yet with no loss of confidence or control at triple digit speeds and rough roads. With its fully double-jointed independent rear suspension, the Seville exceeded the Mercedes’ low-pivot swing axles in every parameter. The Corvette four wheel discs also surpassed them. And its performance with 320 hp was well above the Mercedes sixes; the Seville had a phenomenal top speed of 142 mph (230 km/h), and one it could sustain for extended runs. Mercedes soon started early development on a new family of V8 engines.
The Seville was priced aggressively: $8,000, fully equipped ($58k adjusted); about 30% more than a base DeVille, but closer to 10-15% more than a comparably equipped one. And that was right in S-Class territory when the new W108 cars arrived for 1966, also comparably equipped.
Well, we all know how that turned out. The Seville’s vastly superior performance, better handling and ride, and fully comparable quality made it the second smash hit of April 1964, along with the new Ford Mustang. Of course it didn’t sell in anywhere near the numbers, but Americans embraced the Seville as the car that they most aspired to trade in their Mustang in a few years down the road.
How many actually did is another story, and largely irrelevant. What was more significant is that the influential elite suddenly had a car that they could embrace with their disposable dollars, and one that reflected their desire for a more compact but exclusive luxury car, and one that could leave the Mercedes in the dust. And as is usually the case, what the early adopters drove soon became the most desired and best selling luxury car.
The success of the Seville vaulted DeLorean’s power at GM, and set off a palace coup that cleansed the 14th floor of the beancounters like Chairman Donner. By 1969, DeLorean was President of GM, and the rest is of course well-known history.
Poor Mercedes managed to eke out a niche in the US, but the Seville has been the best selling premium car in the land for fifty years, as well as enjoying very healthy sales in Europe, never mind its dominance in China and other Asian countries. The world’s most successful luxury sedan and coupe, thanks to the prescience of a couple of car guys who had vision and guts.
Special thanks to Barry Koch aka “Barko” for realizing the 1965 Seville.
Related reading:
1975 – 1979 Cadillac Seville: GM’s Deadly Sin #11 – The Sin Of Underachieving
This car exists? Where? How? I have never heard of or seen this in my life.. I am kind of shocked at that! Very cool article, and now I want one of these, somehow..
No, but a later version o the Opel was considered as the basis or the ’75 Seville.
What I read someplace was that the panel gaps were too tight on the Opel to allow it to be built in US plants.
Um, it doesn’t exist. This was a “what if” article.
clever
Marty McFly should grab the Delorean and go back in time to fix the timeline of GM.
Funny you should say that – my first thought reading this was that this parallel universe would thus have been robbed of the (flawed but iconic) DMC-12.
Then again maybe some displaced Mercedes manager would have gone solo in the late 70s and come up with something equally stunning but engineered to lived up to its looks? 😉
But they already did! (He was an engineer though…) Isdera Imperator 108i, based on the Mercedes CW311 concept. Since they had no intention of going into production with the car, they let the lead engineer produce it with his own company. Stunning cars…
I think this all the time with British Leyland…
I’ve never seen this car before. While I like Cadillacs of the 1950s through the 70s, they’re all so damn big. Was that mass really necessary for luxury? I fail to see how. I can drive a Chevy Chevelle, the Pontiac GTO, and the Chevy II (Nova), and be comfortable.
Necessary? No, but for a whole generation of American luxury car buyers, being gratuitous was the whole point. There’s still a popular school of thought that says unnecessary excess is desirable because it shows that you’re affluent enough not to care about efficiency.
That’s usually the case, isn’t it? I’ve never understood that mindset. I remember when Cadillac introduced the Cimarron, a smaller car based on the Chevy Cavalier, I remember thinking “at last. A smaller Cadillac one doesn’t have to have a chauffeur’s license to drive.” Its styling may not have been popular, and ultimately, it may not have been a very popular car. But I believe that Cadillac had a good idea when they introduced the car. They simply needed to build a better quality car than what it was. When you pay lots of money, you expect a better car, right?
Styling, what styling? Quality was not the big problem with the Cimmaron. The Cimarron was such a cavalier badge job that it was an affront to anybody that would actually be interested in buying it. At the very least it needed unique sheetmetal to differentiate it from its lower-priced siblings.
Check out the 1985 Cimarron PPG pace car. That’s what the production Cimarron should’ve looked like from the onset. It was covered here:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/the-most-ironic-gm-concept-car-ever-1985-cadillac-cimarron-dual-cowl-phaeton/
I agree.
It’s interesting to note that there were people within Cadillac that did want to give the Cimarron a 2nd chance to redeem itself, there was a 2nd generation styled that was much more unique to Cadillac, it did have lots of elements borrowed from that PPG styling study, I don’t know what It would have been based on, the vote to save the Cimarron was actually close, it almost lived.
The last sentence is worth remembering and repeating. It is unfortunately true.
I agree. I’ve never understood why it is that people feel they need such heavy, bulky monsters for cars.
What appalled me when seeing one of these dinosaur-land yachts up close is their mediocre interior space. I have never understood the mentality of demonstrating conspicuous consumption with a giant oversized engine compartment and trunk with a moderately-sized interior. If you’re going for excess size why not distribute it in a way the passengers can actually enjoy?
I agree. Today’s Cadillac cars are more acceptable in size than they were 50 yrs ago.
A smooth, quiet ride. Interior room, comfortable (soft) seats, trunk space, an engine with a lot of torque. Those are some reasons why large cars were popular. (This is a ’69 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham.)
The big car ride. Nothing like it. When and if you drive one you will see why the big big Caddies were in a class of their own. Comfort at its best. Can fit 8 adults with leg room comfortably. Like driving a waveless water bed with shocks. Highway cruiser 100mpr all day long , then floor it and watch it climb to 140 feeling smooth n heavy holding the road. Keep up if you can or dare. 98 Olds allso a great ride, 71L. S. 2 door my favorite.
Good April Fool, Paul. 🙂 Nice pictures!
There was talk of the Chevy powered Opel being sold as a Cadillac but it never happened.The Opel/Vauxhall Omega was sold as a Cadillac many years later and we know what happened next
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1967-chevelle-malibu-sedan-the-american-big-opel/
A Chevy powered Opel became a Holden very easily the Aussies swear it was home grown but it wasnt and modified Opels became Holdens staple diet up untill 05.
We have a budding Harry Turtledove working here.
If only somebody at GM did have the foresight and vision, this could have easily played out quite similar to what you have described. The old mindset of something being comfortable so why change is a hard one to overcome and it took a lot to prod Detroit out of this philosophy ten to fifteen years later.
Well, at this point, Cadillac was extremely profitable and very highly regarded and the relentless bean counter insistence on cutting costs at all costs hadn’t yet had a noticeable effect. And to some extent, I think that the tastes of people who bought and liked Mercedes and people who bought and liked (or aspired to) Cadillacs were really fundamentally separate things. A 1965 Cadillac was a very different car from a 1965 Mercedes 300SEL, but in many respects it was a philosophical difference as much as a qualitative one. The Mercedes was the more roadable car, but Cadillac had a fine engine, a superior transmission, better HVAC, and a better ride. (The only area the Cadillac fell down that wasn’t a matter of design priorities was brakes; Cadillac’s drums weren’t terrible by contemporary American standards, but 5,000+ pound cars really need discs.)
So, you’re saying that Cadillac should have moved it’s headquarters from Detroit to New York in 1963 or so? 🙂
When the Seville was introduced as a “small” car in the mid 70’s, the older generation (people who would actually buy Cadillacs) could not see an value in a small Cadillac. Even in the 80’s these people thought the downsizing was a horrid concept.
Gee, I seem to remember the original Seville selling quite well to “traditional” Cadillac customers in the 70s. The 77 full sized Cadillac sold well too. The bitch about downsizing really didn’t get much traction until the poorly executed 1985 shrink job.
The Seville in the early years sold about 45000, while the deVilles plus the Fleetwood Brougham was selling about 200,000. But I was speaking of a couple of people I knew at the time who were the older generation (preWW2). None of us had luxury cars at that time.
I think if the Seville concept had been tried in the mid 60’s it might not have gone over as well. The gas crisis in the early 70’s made the mid 70 Seville a good idea.
The original, 1st generation Seville was also markedly more expensive than the Deville.
Though I will point out that the original Seville did sell for a much higher price point that the average DeVille/Fleetwood which ranged from $9-$11K base and 3 body styles, compared to the Seville, which came in only 1 body style and based at $13K, more than any Cadillac in the line up except for the Fleetwood Limousines.
Nice story. But the Mercedes from the 50s and 60s is like driving a box on wheel. Cadillac did almost anything better in this era.
But yeah, if only GM had been a little more oriented of the world outside the US, the situation might have been different in 2008 and today.
…or, the US had been a little more closed from the outside world, to a mutual benefit…
I’ve never driven a Mercedes-Benz, but I have ridden in my share, and they’re like driving an army tank on wheels. It rides comfortably, but it’s also rugged. Riding in a Cadillac, on the other hand, although comfortable, it feels more like a I’m riding on a pillow. While I’m not against comfortable ride, I don’t like the feeling like the car suspension is going to buckle, and no longer be able to support the weight of the car.
You need to ride in an ATS.
Current Cadillac ride and handling? I still like the description of one automotive wag who said: “BMWs that swill Pabst Blue Ribbon.”
That’s sort of true when you came to the 70s, but in the 50s and 60s Cadillacs will win hands down, in a real competition. The MB did have better fit and finish in the end of the 60s than Cadillac I think, Cadillac fit and finish was on it’s way down in my opinion during the 60s. Mercedes may had a better disc brake.
In the 70s the american land yatchs was very quiet, you couldn’t feel a big of small bump in the road, they had a lot of equipment as standard or option, many of them who we in Europe didn’t hear of until late 90s, 2000s, like automatic temperature control, twilight sentinel (in GM name), auto dim head lights, cruise control, power seats, tilt and telescope, a lot of illumination and a lot of other gadgets. You american also did something none in Europe could afford, comfortmotoring. Big, lazy engines, quiet, enough power and seamless automatic transmission. BMW bought their automatics from GM, Mercedes couldn’t make a proper automatic before the mid-70s.
But, when the american also was (especially Cadillac) on a downhill when it comes to fit and finish, and material quality, Mercedes was excellent here, the was also excellent in the handling section, brakes, steering and suspension (though not the isolation like the land yatchs). The didn’t have all of the equipment, but in the US they had the most important. And their size and interior space was great, but the traditional big Fleetwood was roomier still, but also much much bigger on the outside.
That said, now, 30-50 years later, the american drivetrain, like 460-C6-9inch Ford or Cadillacs, 472-500-425-368 – TH400 – 8,8 rear end, was bulletproof. And the quality of these land yatchs BOF-cars is very good actually, I don’t think anyone will build cars that last so long like an old traditional american BOF with V8, 3speed trans and live rear axle.
I don’t know why you american went this way, but I can only imagine how it was to go from 250-400 bhp in the 60s, to the 105 bhp Buick 3,8 liter in the LeSabre in 1978…. In Europe we used to have cars with about 25-50 hp through the 50s-70s, and in the seventies some got over 100 hp at the end. We was dreaming of the big american cars, even the Chevrolets, with hundreds of horespowers, chrome, power steering and size.
Very interesting alternate universe. If only…
John Z as president and a “cleaned-out” 14th floor. Oh what GM might have produced following such a thing….or better what products (Vega) would not have seen the light of day.
What might have been.
On the other hand, they might have produced junk like the Delorean.
Or at least a better-thought-out Vega…
A Vega with an Opel or Vauxhall engine – has anyone tried that, to see what might have been?
Hmmm,
While I can sort of see a “family resemblance” between a 64 Chevelle and a 64 Impala, the 65 Chevelle doesn’t resemble a 65 Impala….but a 65 Cadillac?
A German engineered (where have I heard that phrase before) Opel with an Oldsmobile….or Chevrolet engine would have been a bust 50 years ago, IMHO. Why? As soon as it was revealed to potential customers that the same company that built dinky Kadetts and Rekords was responsible for the most expensive, NON limousine, Cadillac in dealer’s showrooms all bets would have been off.
But if nobody told the customers their new car was a rebadge of something else from somewhere else like was done in Australia they wouldnt have found out when the manufacturer controls the market they can get away with anything GMH did it in Aussie Ford OZ never told anyone their Aussie Falcon was American and Chrysler Australia never mentioned there was an American Valiant,
Would the unions have allowed them to do it? How militant was the UAW then? How would they have taken to the idea of assembling a German design?
Also, 1965 was only 20 years after the end of WW2, and if the US was like Australia, there was still a fair amount of anti-German feeling around.
In this same alternative universe, the Chevy Vega would have been engineered and built to a much higher standard and have beaten back Japan…
The way I see it, had the real GM carried their post-WW2 mojo into the ’60s…this scenario all of a sudden doesn’t seem impossible.
Then again we’re talking about a GM that shelved the similarly forward-thinking Cadet because the dealers couldn’t see the value.
Or, the Vega would be based on Opel B/C class cars, and carried on to today. Even the name would’ve suruvived, being such a sucess. Imaging a 2015 Chevy Vega [Cruze] LTZ.
Or better than Opel, how about Holden? Their cars are light enough in weight to be economical, but are also durable enough to withstand Australian outback road driving. Even Holden’s luxury car, the Statesman was rugged enough to withstand Australian driving without its frame buckling. If only our American cars were built like that.
Well, I’ll say that the traditional BOF american cars are the most rugged cars that ever is built. Holden statesman is a unibody (V-body?)(?) and I have yet to see a unibody that can take so much bad roads and have that durability over time as the old Body on Frame american cars.
In Europe the Opel Commodore/Rekord/Senator (V-body) is not known for durability, ruggedness and reliability over time. They rusted very badly too.
Have a look in Russia, Central Europe, South America, Africa and the Middle East.
I’m a bit surprised because 70’s Commodore B and Rekord D are known for the ruggedness, reliability and durability of both their CIH engines and GM 4 gearboxes.
Moreover, at the time, Commodores and Rekord were less rust-prone than their european competitors.
Maybe are you refering to Opels from the 80’s ?
Costatini 🙂
The Commodore B and Rekord D was better than Commodore C and Rekord E / Senator/Monza A in terms of rust. But they wasn’t the bets, so say for sure. In Norway the climate is very harsh, and while some cars did ok, the Opels generally did not, however, the 70s was better than the late 70s Opels. Some of them got problems with rust at the McPherson front inner fender after 5-7 years…
I’ve owned some Senators and Monzas, and I like Opels, but they are not known for reliability and durability over time here in Norway.
While Holden Commodores were based on Opels, the bodies were considerably strengthened, after the first prototypes broke at the firewall with collapsed shock towers. This was widely reported in the Australian media at the first Commodore’s release in 1978.
Commodores rusted less then earlier Holdens.
Holdens are modified Opels especially from 68 onwards. They are far more durable than rattling BOF junk under harsh conditions
Thats just not true. In Norway the Opels rusted away at an impressive pace, and the main problems was the McPhersom front suspension, rust around there, and you could trash the car after 10 years… Other problems where rocker panels and floorpan.
The doors sagged, the engines, except the I6 engines, was not the best, same with the rear axle, and about all of them had an oil leak at the first service. After 200.000-300.000 km the engines started to use oil and was pretty much finish.
The GM B and C -body was and is far more durable in the long run than, well what should I call it? Not good cars. And Norwegian roads are pretty harsh, so is the climate. In Norway we had a lot of both the Opel V-body and GM A/B body from 1977-1981. Then the taxes on american cars was to high, but today you can still se som A and B-bodies from that era in daily use, yeah they are pretty rusty some of them, but the Engine/drivetrain are original, the frame are often in good condition and the car runs without problems. Opel sold about 10 times so many cars in that era (andre after) but you could count them on one hand today.
Opel has never been known as a high quality car here in Norway (and Europe). But these old yanktanks has always been known for a very high quality in the long run, and the reason is simplicity, ruggednes and a frame who holds up when the body rusts.
It is possible though, that the Holden and Opel was much more different than I know!
I’ve never been a fan of Opel cars, certainly not the Opel cars sold in the USA during the 1970s. A neighbour of mine had a GT coupe, the kind with the pop-up headlamps. I thought, at the time, that it was uglier than anything made by Opel.
“They are far more durable than rattling BOF junk under harsh conditions”
That’s just rubbish.
Guys, it’s not a matter of whether it’s BOF or unibody; it’s all about how well built it is. I can find you plenty of examples of excellent, solid cars and junky POS on frames as well as with unibody. It’s all in the engineering, details, and execution, not whether it has a frame or not.
FWIW, the Opel KAD A and B generation were generally considered to be well-executed and well-built cars of that time. The engineers at Mercedes were rather impressed, based on a book I read written by a MBZ development engineer at the time.
Later Opels? Maybe not so.
@Paul. I agree with on that, when it comes to rattles and squeeks it doesn’t matter all that much BOF or unibody. But a BOF construction tends to sort out more NVH than an unibody. And in the long run, a BOF construction tends to last longer and rust in the body doesn’t matter, and the body can take some damadge without problems.
The most comfortable car I’ve ever driven (and it’s a little bit painful since I’m sort of a GM man..) is a 1975 Lincoln Continental Town Car. Quiet and you can’t feel a bump in the road. Even the new MB s-Class and 7-serie BMW can’t match it there. But the handling on these waterbed-Lincolns are not good, my old Riviera is way better there.
When it comes to Opel the KAD (Kapitan, Admiral and Diplomat) was well built actually, but they lacked noise insulation and equipment compared to the americans. Later Opels was not built so good, and rust was the main problem, but also some of the engines.
If only the Vega had worked as well as it looked. Still a fine-looking little automobile. If GM wouldn’t correct the issue prior to production it would have been so much better for them had they stepped-up right away to make the cars right for the owners. Admit the problems right away and recall the cars to fix the problems.
Put a brake proportioning valve on the ’80 X cars while they are at it and maybe delay introduction to iron out build quality issues.
Could’ve been a whole different world.
I totally agree. It’s not too late for Chevrolet. All they need to do is get their heads out of their asses, think less like businessmen, and more like car people. Naturally, they’d need money to build their cars. But you know….
Late to the party here, but the reason the V car based Holden Commodore was durable and rugged was the unit body was massively re-engineered from the Opel version.
Holden literally broke prototypes in two at the firewall on the roads of North Queensland.
It ended up that Holden spent almost as much money rectifying the inadequacies of the Opel unibody as it would have if it had built the body from scratch.
This is another GM deadly sin as far as I’m concerned, as the Commodore programme almost put Holden out of business, when combined with the inadequate J car Camira.
Jason,
I have driven a Mercedes, a 70 300 SEL 6.3 and rode in a mid-late 50s 300d and driven and ridden in many GM cars from the 60s and 70s. To judge how a car might be to drive from riding in it is about as insightful as determining how much fun sailing might be after visiting a boat show.
Great article, and I especially like the work of Barry Koch — it’s very convincing. And it was nice to see mention of the Cadillac “short deck” sedans — not many people know about those.
Yes great job Barry! i especially like how you handled the floor console and seats. Where did you put the Delorean coke tray?
I’m trying to picture the rest of the altered timeline in this story given my Father’s sworn allegiance to all things GM (save one 1967 Mustang that was snapped up from his FIL estate – maybe that’s why it was so easy for the old man to eventually give the Mustang to me… but anyway.)
I’m picturing the cars he has owned during my lifetime – 1978 Monte Carlo, 1982 Chevy Celebrity sedan, 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham sedan, 1992 Pontiac Bonneville, 2002 Chevy Blazer 4×4, 2009 Pontiac Torrent.
Although the thing I would have loved is the Cutlass Supreme with a FI 307 V8… mmmmmmmmmmmm good.
instead DeLorean got a chin job in the late ’60’s and looked like John Kerry. He also married a very young Kelly Harmon and really got wrapped up in his own ego and eventually his own demise. If he would have kept on his early ’60’s track the story above might well have happened and changed the course of GM
I could go on in the same vain about the US trucking industry, for example how Mack became owned by Volvo instead of the other way round, but perhaps I should not…
And we all know how well it worked for Cadillac in the 1980’s when they took a Chevy and put a Cadillac badge on it. Cimarron anyone?
And then GM discovered the art of customer service and product dependability, and they all lived happily ever after. The end.
Or should that be rediscovered? They seemed to have it right in, say, the early fifties…..
Regardless of whether the Opel chassis had better dynamics, if a downsized Caddy had been developed, I think that they would’ve used the Chevelle as the basis to manufacture the car in the US and cut costs. I bet there would’ve been a lot of resistance to using the engine from another division as well, though the Olds mill would probably be better received than Chevy.
The FI may have been a risk as well. For a Cadillac buyer that was comfortable paying for the latest gadgets but wanted a reliable car, that might not have been the best plan. The late 50’s Chevy Rochester mechanical FI units were temperamental units and not many people knew how to keep them running properly, so many were swapped out for carbs. Pontiac also offered FI in 1957-58, which was based on the same technology but I think may have been better designed. Of course, by 1964 they may have learned enough to build a more reliable version, but that was right when they were discontinued.
off-topic: I think that the ’59 Cadillac hides its common roots with the ’59 Chevy quite well, unless you look at the two side-by-side.
Gee, I must be slipping. The way I remembered the story, DeLorean and Knudsen were behind Cadillac speeding up development of its new generation motor, and a smaller-displacement 368 cid version powered the new Seville, while the much larger 472 blew away Lincoln and Imperial’s old-style engines.
Something like that would have been more likely I think. Even if the Olds 330 was a worthy mill, 1960’s GM was still the land of each divison’s own engines being sacred. So for the Seville to have been seen as a real premium Cadillac, it would have needed a Real Cadillac Engine. Maybe if they harped enough on the FI and gave the block a slight overbore to change the displacement, they could have passed it off…
The automotive lanscape might have looked quite different, had this happened. One also wonders if it would have spurred a better first downsizing effort over at Lincoln than the pig-in-lipstick Versailles. (Mustang platform with a wheelbase stretch perhaps?)
So long as Cadillac service departments didn’t steer customers to the Olds dealer for engine service…
That came along for the gen2 Seville in 1968, with aluminum block and heads (but with cylinder sleeves), You’re getting ahead of yourself! 🙂 And gen3 got the OHC version. And gen4 got……
Based on the new OHC V-12 for the big cars, huh? 😉
Which on its turn would have given birth to a V16 for the new Royce Phantom-killer 2004 Sixteen…
Brilliant article and well done photo-shops. Though the Opel itself doesn’t present itself very well as an “upscale” product. It looks like a euro-version of a Chevelle.
Re: the Chevelle: I never really thought much about it’s styling, thought it was boring and dull, but it sure looks perfectly sized and styled today. Very pretty front end. A far cry from the science fiction inspired maws on cars today.
That Opel Diplomat 2 door hardtop is quite fetching…
+1.
Awesome article, very well written and interesting concept.
Nonetheless, we don’t have to think what if anymore, as Cadillac is right now producing and selling world class sedan, and in the process of creating more! The only problem as far as I can tell is price:
1) I can’t possibly afford a new Cadillac big enough to fit my kids (the ATS is a joy to drive but smaller than a BMW which is small!).
2) The new XTS, ATS, and the Gen 2 CTS all had some value pricing against the germans, but it appears that the new CTS does not, and sales volumes have suffered.
So I’ll vote with my voice, because I can’t afford to vote with my wallet!
Fun parallel universe… but, I’d propose an alternate scenario. Cadillac was flying too high and doing too much right in the mid-1960s to ever go in this direction. Plus it would have been way, way too far out there for the target market. Imagine, however, that this car was trimmed out as a luxury Pontiac? After all, the sporting image and emphasis on handling was already there. Top trim cars like the Bonneville were quite luxurious (and I believe even had real wood trim much like the Diplomat). DeLorean was already there, would be brash enough to do it, and could have likely gotten the corporation to comply. Lastly, I think Pontiac buyers during the era bought into the renegade image that Pontiac was building, and a European “right-sized” car would have fit well with that mindset. It could have been a Grand Prix perhaps, and better lived up to the name…
Another alternative division could have been Oldsmobile. With the front drive Toronado on the horizon, and a high quality image as GM’s guinea pig, Olds could have fielded a pretty interesting Cutlass, rather than the A-body. If Oldsmobile guys were worried about Pontiac coming up from below and Buick squeezing down from above, it could have been an interesting play. By the time Oldsmobile actually did discover how to build more import-competitive products like the Aurora, it was too late.
To take it one step further, this would have been a great platform for the introduction of advanced V6 engines (overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, electronic FI, 4 speed automatic, etc) for North American GM before the Energy Crisis of the early ’70s.
The second lost opportunity!!!
DeLorean did push through a relatively advanced 6-cylinder engine, though not a V engine. It was the Pontiac OHC inline-6. It was only used from 1966-69. DeLorean left GM in 1973, so he wasn’t around to argue for reviving the OHC-6 program for the energy crisis.
A very, very fun read and thanks for posting that Paul. I’ve also fantasized about such things, as early as the 70s, after experiencing the first Capri and Opel 1900 FI as a kid. The Euro cars drove great, were relatively inexpensive, and of course were American owned.
Just as those thoughts were starting to gel out comes the ’76 Seville which gave me another lesson, this one on styling and marketing.
If you miss the soft stuff it doesn’t matter how well the car performs or the specs. The classic example of course is Corvair versus Mustang. The Corvair was the kind of car you are describing in your article. The Mustang, which was all smoke and mirrors (styling and image), killed it.
I have to wonder how well those GTOs would have done were it not for the classic Bill Mitchell lines.
Even with a Mitchell body, the feature car would have been as underdeveloped and crappy as the Tempest. Maybe a better play would have been something like the ’76 Seville but earlier on and off of the ’67+ A-body. That A-body didn’t drive as nicely as a W108 but was nearly as good, overall, and better in several ways.
That said I wish they could have given your idea a shot as it may have pulled-ahead learning from the failed technology experiments in the 70s and 80s. Those failures came at a very bad time.
It would be a different Cadillac today if they made a successful PN-Seville, but also if they avoided things like the diesel, V864, HT4100 and Northstar.
The photo shop Seville is very nice. A lot of Buick pops out in the side profile. Some ’63-’65 Riviera, some Skylark sedan, some ’65 LeSabre, LeSabre wheel covers.
A good yarn not completely out of the realm of possibility. A shame it didn’t actually happen.
I think that one dimension would have changed if this had actually happened:
.
“Once the specifications were set for the Seville, the realization that it would be priced 30% above the base price for the Deville caused a wholesale rethinking on the direction Cadillac should be heading. While the ever increasing volumes at Cadillac were appreciated, there was concern that the brand would lose cachet as it became too common. Another realization was that increasing levels of luxury were were becoming expected – Ford’s XL line had expanded to four door cars, Pontiac had a new Brougham trim for 1964. The concern was what direction would Chevy take in 1965 – closing the gap between the top Chevy and bottom Cadillac? It was already known that Oldsmobile would be fielding a top Ninety-Eight that would rival the Fleetwood.
The quick fix was to pour another $120.00 (a princely sum in 1965) into the interior parts to ensure the quality was as high as possible. Then, four wheel discs and fuel injection development were expanded to the large cars, along with more work on the suspension to retain a Cadillac ride, but improve handling. The proposed Calais (replacing the Series 62) was dropped at the bottom end, and standard equipment levels were increased across the board, allowing production to focus on tolerances and quality, instead of endless variants of the cars.
Cadillac was one of the few makers to see a small reduction in volume in the banner sales year that was 1965, but revenues were up with higher transaction prices. The concern that Cadillac was slipping from its position as “Standard of the World” was stopped, and…………………”
The bizarre and temporarily successful ’75 Seville as brand flagship would not have happened in 1965. Expectations have almost always been that the largest offerings are the flagship, and Cadillac still struggles to this day where they lack a S-Series / 7 Series competitor.
Maybe at this point the Series 75 got a unique body to underline how special it was, and went even further upmarket, taking off after Rolls-Royce and revisiting the concept of the late fifties foreign-bodied Eldorado Broughams.
This is a fun game!
Hmm imagine a Vega that had a properly designed smooth running 4 cylinder, a Buick 231 V6 with heavy duty oiling, cast iron oil pump gears and metal timing chain gears, a 5.7 diesel that was designed by a real diesel engineer, 368 FI V8’s sitting behind beefed up 200R-4 transmissions in the 1980-1985 full sized Cadillacs, FI Olds 307 V8’s and Chevy LG4 305’s, a Cimmaron with it’s own unique sheet metal, longer body, it’s own dash and an OHC smooth running FI L4 with a V6 option exclusive to Cadillac. How about the Pontiac 301 turbo getting it’s own development like the Buick 3.8 turbo pumping out 250-300 horses in the lighter downsized 1982 onward F-body cars. How about port injected 3.8 V6’s in the G-body cars from 1985 to 1988. And how about J-bodies that came out of the gate with TBI and 2 liter engines instead of one year only 1.8’s with carburetors.
Just think about if the above changes were made to GM’s lineup throughout the 70’s and 80’s. How much better would they have been regarded today? And to think that all of this could easily have been done if decisions were changed, bean counters didn’t always get there way and if one Roger rabbit Smith didn’t come on board GM.
I agree. If only General Motors had done that, they wouldn’t have gotten themselves in this problem they’re in. Although no car company is perfect, they really should’ve thought more about how a car should be built. And rather than rely on other countries to build our own products, we should be building our own products. Will it cost more? It probably would initially. But in the long run, it’ll save you money, since it’s so well built, you won’t have to bring the car in so often, except for the usual maintenance.
Well played. Too bad this isn’t how it played out…that 2 dr h/t rendering looks pretty good…I especially like the hidden headlite front clip.
Imagine Iacocca Vs. Delorean! It would have been like the competition between the Beatles and Beach Boys in the latter 60s. Each group would be inspired by the other’s last song and top it.
If the Big 3 were based in East Coast, like most companies in the 50s/60s, they would have seen the import invasion coming, clearer. Being in the Company Town of DET, they just acted like ‘only weirdos buy VW’s’, and we know the rest of the story.
And I agree with Carmine, I love the Nova based Seville. The Nova was a good car and way better base for a Caddy than the Cavalier.
I agree. Why Cadillac ever, *EVER* decided to base its smaller car on the Cavalier is beyond my understanding of business.
I learned from the youtube channel Rare Classic Cars that they originally wanted to use the X car (Citation), but there wasn’t enough available production volume in its first 2 years (but there was by the time the Cimarron came out). Too bad, since they could have had a V6 from the beginning, IMO a bigger problem for the Cimarron than the Cavalier sheet metal.
Clever, but it wouldn’t have worked. Small Cadillac is an oxymoron. A Cadillac, just like a Lincoln, is supposed to be a large opulent car with all the bells and whistles. It is supposed to have a very distinct look that separates it from anything else. Cadillac and Lincoln exist today in name only, the cars are long gone
This generation of Seville was a really cool car, but one thing I really disliked about it was a lack of IRS. I mean, it couldn’t have been too hard to adapt the IRS Corvette system to the Seville, as the cars were about the same width. Perhaps it could not be packaged with the Opel unibody?
I also understand that GM lost a lot of money on the first cars as workers were not well enough trained to achieve the close panel gaps and other close tolerances. According to DeLorean’s book, more than 50% of the early cars did not meet QC and had to be repaired. Eventually GM resorted to a completely separate Seville line, but this must have cut profits considerably. Perhaps this is the reason the 1968 Seville was decontented and the Pontiac OHC six, and, get this Powerglide, were brought in to lower the price. These measures didn’t really cut it and the option only lasted one year.
But it did have IRS, from the Corvette. Did you miss that?
Oops, missed that…..
But I’m correct on the ohc 6 and Powerglide.
The ’68 decontenting wasn’t all bad – the brocade cloth that came in as an alternative to leather was really nice and came in some great colors. My uncle Norman had a ’68 (V8/THM) with the brocade in “pool blue” and it looked like new even on a rusted-out example that had seen a dozen New England winters.
The more I read, the bigger the grin. Likely Some Drugs were involved in this alternate universe. Nice job. I also think the 75 Seville is a great looking car, especially painted black with chrome wire wheels. This ‘version’, not so much.
I love this – wish I could buy one!!
Paul, That was a very good story. Twenty years ago I was a big Cadillac fan and bought many books on Cadillac’s history, including Maurice Hendry’s book on the marque. As I was reading your story I started questioning my sanity because the only Seville that Cadillac produced prior to the 1975 model was the ’59/’60 Eldorado Biarritz. These were convertibles but the coupes were called Seville.
Actually the Seville name came out in 1956, as the hardtop version of Eldorado, at the same time the convertible became the Biarritz, interestingly they kept the Biarritz name until 1961, even though there no longer was a Seville.
Yeah this is the point where GM started it’s seemingly endless roll, the 80s in particular when John DeLorean(then GM president) and savvy businessman Paeblo Escobar arranged to move production of many cars to Latin America. Quality too became such priority in those days that they’d be assembled, shipped to facilities in Miami, disassembled and inspected, and meticulously reassembled before making their way to the dealers.
You have to make sure they did the job right, what with the metric system, sloppy untrained Columbian workmanship and all. I think they managed to trim excess curb weight by a few Kilos per car this way. The pace of the reassembly line was the fastest of the time, but the workers always managed to keep up.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, I get it. Unterturkheim? Brilliant! An early April Fools joke. ROTFLMFAO!
You wouldn’t want the full L84 FI motor in your baby Caddy (who’s got time to keep the solid lifters adjusted?). You’d do a cam swap like they did to turn the L76 solid lifter 327/365 into the L79 hydraulic lifter 327/350 motor. You give up maybe 15 HP, but you don’t have to pull the valve covers to adjust the lifters. Caddies don’t need to rev to 6500 RPM anyway, and lower revs make it easier to hang a THM 400 auto behind it and put A/C on it.
If Cadillac balks at the Chevy in a plain Caddy wrapper, I’m sure you could adapt the FI unit to the Olds motor. After all, Pontiac had used a similar system from Rochester in the 50s for a while.
GM had the biggest parts bin in the world in the 60s; it coulda been done if some car guys were running the show instead of looking thru Ralph Nader’s underwear drawer.
Exactly. Cars like this are all about big torque anyway. Solid lifters are an unnecessary pain.
Perhaps not so much a parallel universe, as a time warp. This car was merely the 1965 Catera, executed with a bigger budget and more creativity.
I like the Cadillac Catera. It’s a shame that it wasn’t a success. I thought it was better looking than anything Cadillac produces today.
hehehe
Great alter-history article, thanks! Prescience and vision in the highest offices were all that was necessary and will to act. What a shame it was lacking at a critical time. Over and over the lack of those management qualities have sunk companies that deserved better……I’d primarily thinking of Packard.
But, the reality of those years was Cadillac was triumphant in the luxury market, saw no reason to upset the situation that was filling the coffers with mega-dollars. The M-B wasn’t seen as much of a threat, only aspirational for a segment of the market too small to bother with. How that would change in a decade was what management should have foreseen.
I’m seriously scared now. Brilliant spoof. Promise us that you guys won’t make any Spanish Prisoner-type emails: you know, “My treasure is locked up by the evil leaders of _, could you loan me a thousand bucks so I can get out of political prison…oh, and did I mention that my beautiful, single sister loves generous guys…”.
How can I unread this?
Fun idea, but even the Diplomat “A” coupes fitted with the Chevy V8 prior to 1968 weren’t embraced by Europe. Vastly different strokes, fairly different folks…
“Weren’t embraced” is mildly put, the Diplomat A coupe (the only engine option was the Chevy 327) was extremely rare. Only 347 of them were built by Karmann.
And just 330 of the 8,848 Diplomat A sedans had the Chevy 327 engine, the rest was equipped with an Opel inline-6 engine.
I just woke up….and then I cried. For those whose dismiss this as a pipe dream, I give you the 1963 Riviera and the 1963 Corvette.
Coulda happened… Americans were -very- interested in beating Europe at their own (sports/performance/racing) game in the mid 60’s. Ford was spending millions to beat Ferrari at LeMans and the Cobra was a real halo car for Ford…. and – it was only 15 years earlier that a stock Cadillac had finished 10th at LeMans. This car, taken racing at LeMans in the same way, would have made Cadillac invincible as the Gentleman’s GTO. I believe the suggestion that a car like this would have kept Cadillac on the throne as ‘The Standard Of The World’. Instead, Cadillac chose to go down market, reduce quality and chase volume and well, you know the rest.
I agree. It’s a shame. When you pay more money to buy a car, naturally you expect a way better quality car.
The story could go on… GM getting Saab in about 1984 so that they could engineer the handling of the GM2900 platform and putting them in charge of the Epsilon suspension design, so that both the 9-3 and the 9-5 would make the switch to the SWB and LWB platform in 2002, complete with premium interiors; making DeLorean conceive the DMC-12 with a 350 in mind and launching it as a Pontiac; getting the Fiero right from the beginning, show the “This Is Not Your Father’s Oldsmobile” marketing guy the door… Alternate histories are great… I actually wrote one, about Volvo adopting the VW TDI engines and making the 240 go on until 1998, thoroughly restyled,… Currently making the photochops, and I already have one of the V20…
The 740/940 isn’t the reststyled 240 you were talking about?
Partly is… It was just a photochop joke I was making… and started wondering how would it be if they kept it simultaneously with the 960…
To be successful the American car companies have to….
1) Make sure that cars don’t break down.
…and not when they are new, when they have 80,000 miles (or more) on them.
2) Make sure they are NICE…
…someone who buys a little car does not want to be reminded of it all the time.
This explains the success of Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW and Audi.
Re point 2, that was done before by Nash Rambler in the ’50s, surmising that Americans would rather buy used than a new but “stripped” small car.
I agree. I’ve always driven either Toyota, Subaru, or Mitsubishi. I’ve never owned or driven a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge. And all for the same reason you mentioned.
If I understand it correctly, the whole idea behind American manufacturers not making a smaller car ‘nice’ was to move you ‘up’ to a larger car, thus making more profit for the dealer -never mind the customer. They just didn’t seem to get the idea that some people wanted a smaller car that didn’t scream “CHEAP!” Epic fail, guys – hence the success of Japanese cars.
interesting concept and with IRS and BOF construction it would have been a capable performer though with the stigma of a SBC under the hood (I am a huge fan of the SBC for what its worth). I kinda agree with the comment the most affluent people of the time were more interested in the excess of a Cadillac land barge. a good idea and brilliant writing but the concept is way ahead of it’s time. I actually thought GM built it for a couple of minutes.
The logical flaw with that generalization is that not all rich people want similar cars. Bentley and Ferrari sell comparable numbers of cars to approximately the same audience.
The same market stratification was evident at lower price points in 1965. For similar money, you could buy a big Chevy sedan or a smaller Buick. That’s a big change in ten years, when the cheapest Buick was a little bigger than a Chevy, and a small upcharge from a V8 Bel Air.
Well, decades later, Cadillac did take a GM Opel car and try to turn it into something more – remember the Catera? It’s highly doubtful this concept would have worked out any better 30 yrs before.
GMH took the same car, added a Buick 3800 V6 and had a sales success on its hands.
Time passes. Mercedes and BMW had fortified the territory that GM ignored, and there wasn’t much reason to switch back to Cadillac except to wear the home team’s jersey (which was made in Germany).
maybe in the past, really can’t say that today as Cadillac is making world class cars and the jerseys made in Taiwan.
That was at the time of the Catera. There’s still really no reason to switch to a Cadillac car except to support a US business. Which I think is a good reason, but it’s just another car.
It’s a damn shame that Cadillac didn’t offer a smaller car for customers. It wasn’t until the 80s, when Cadillac offered the Cimarron, a car based on the Cavalier.
The actual first-gen Seville (1975) was the smaller Cadillac–longer than a Nova (but just as wide), shorter than a Malibu or Regal. For the time, that was quite a small Cadillac.
Maybe it needed more interior room, but it certainly was the smallest Cadillac the US market would have accepted in 1976. It was longer than the W123 and shorter than the S Class.
I have to agree with both Dr. Zhivago and Hubba.
Alternative GM universe:
Buick and Olds get the B-bodies in addition to the Caprice and Parisienne. Caprice sold only to Cops in US, Parisienne to police in Canada.
Chevy and Pontiac get the H/C-bodies.
Caddy keeps its longer D-body Fleetwood but uses Vette Cross-Fire and later TPI engines.
Cimmaron gets 3.8 or 3.4-liter OHC engine.
N-bodies get 3.8 as performance option.
GNX continues in ’88 as supercharged L36 (equivalent) even though it’s switched to FWD. (In ’96, they did come out with a 205-hp 3.8 Series II Regal, 5 more HP than the ’84 GN, using the L36 engine).
Roadmaster/Olds Custom Cruiser gets 350 TBI from outset. No 305s in Roadmaster/CC during ’91 debut.
Citation and X-bodies get flaws worked out so the initial versions are as good as the ’84-85 versions.
Riviera keeps its 403, then goes to 305 TBI later on in ’85. No downsizing until say ’90. No tiny platforms. E-cars keep their ’79 look through ’90-91.
It’s a damn shame that such car didn’t sell well in the USA. While the larger Cadillacs are nice cars, not everyone needs or wants such large cars.
While Holden and even Vauxhall had their own V8 engine programs, is it known whether Opel looked at initiating their own V8 engine program for the Opel Diplomat in place of the Chevrolet Small Block V8?
While Rover acquired the rights to use the 215 Buick V8, it seems the related 215 Oldsmobile V8 was different enough to the 215 Buick V8 to serve as a suitable basis for a European focused Opel V8 whether in all-alloy or non-alloy forms. The same could be said for a V8 derived from the 300 Buick V8.
“The success of the Seville vaulted DeLorean’s power at GM, and set off a palace coup that cleansed the 14th floor of the beancounters like Chairman Donner. By 1969, DeLorean was President of GM, and the rest is of course well-known history.”
What a shame this never happened.
Wow, good story! Paul had me going for a little while. I mean I know cars, more than a little about auto history including 60’s domestic, but no expert. I see all sorts of stuff here that has me going, really? I never knew that.
As it went on I figured it out. Still, a very good read and exercise in creative writing. Thumbs up!
Same here, but about half way through, the “April Fools” thing popped up in my head! (As someone earlier mentioned).
I had a 1960 Benz 220SEb that looked identical to the pictured car, black with red interior. That car was M-B at it’s best. In 1977 I drove it from Baltimore to Asheville NC at 90+ mph for the entire trip and back, as my wife was due with baby #1 in 1 week and yet I could not miss my sister’s wedding, My wife wasn’t able to attend so that trip had to be lightning fast. Down and back in 2 days. I went to that wedding and left before the reception even started, a hard pass for a booze lover like me (I’m Irish lol) . That little 6 cyl mechanical FI 2.2 liter car thrummed perfectly for 10 hours each way and got 20 mpg while doing it. It was a great high speed cruiser, if not a torquey accelerator. These “heckflosse” M-Bs were the cars that made the MB reputation in this country imo. What fantastic cars they were, for what they were.
Brilliant alternative history, if not for the endemic G NIH syndrome. Such hubris….
I had a 1960 Benz 220SEb that looked identical to the pictured car, black with red interior. That car was M-B at it’s best. In 1977 I drove it from Baltimore to Asheville NC at 90+ mph for the entire trip and back, as my wife was due with baby #1 in 1 week and yet I could not miss my sister’s wedding, My wife wasn’t able to attend so that trip had to be lightning fast. Down and back in 2 days. I went to that wedding and left before the reception even started, a hard pass for a booze lover like me (I’m Irish lol) . That little 6 cyl mechanical FI 2.2 liter car thrummed perfectly for 10 hours each way and got 20 mpg while doing it. It was a great high speed cruiser, if not a torquey accelerator. These “heckflosse” M-Bs were the cars that made the MB reputation in this country imo. What fantastic cars they were, for what they were.
As much as I agree that the 60’s Diplomat looks like it would make a good Cadillac with minor modifications, I also have to note that GM has made many attempts over the years to sell Opels in the US, and their track record has been mixed. They have actually done best when they were up front and offered them as Opels, rather than trying to make them into something else. The Cadillac Catera was a flawed product that looked too much like a Malibu. The Opel-based Saturns were mediocre cars that were not enough to save the division (but maybe nothing was). The Buick Regal TourX is a superb vehicle (full disclosure, I have one), but GM made zero effort to sell it and it was doomed to be an orphan as soon as GM sold off Opel.
Wonderful story, had me musing all morning. Still I wonder, how would they have produced a car in America designed in metric dimensions. All tooling would have to go OTD.
20 mpg at 90. Not bad back in the day. Was that an automatic or 4 speed stick ?
These Opels look too much like Chevrolets, specifically Chevelles to sell as a Cadillac, even the expensive Diplomat coupe..
A good article. They should have set DeLorean free.
Here’s a different take using ’63 Buick Skylark coupe as starting point. Either path would have led to decent M-B competitor, this version probably with a roofline too low to match M-B’s comfort.
https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2019_11/420623051_65Seville117_5197_6z.jpg.59ad03eecea3b7f7c1f7ad36b161fb98.jpg
Another opportunity would have been to let DeLorean do a 5-door hatchback based on the ’80 Seville and give the car his name. The later Fiero would have become his mid-engine dream.
https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2022_09/1830506246_1980CadillacSevilleandDeLorean.jpg.9e3540e4c20c5ddba342372a5109a034.jpg
>> Cadillac responded rather feebly to this with the 1961-1964 “short deck” sedans
There were no 1964 short-deck Cadillacs. 1963 was the last year for that experiment.
There is a plausible addition to this scenario in place of the real world 1st to 3rd generation Cadillac Seville, with the Jaguar-like unbuilt Opel Diplomat C study by the Opel Design Team that also included a sketch for a Seville proposal. More of which can be found in the following Italian language link where there are more images.
https://www.autopareri.com/forums/topic/30134-mai-nate-opel/?page=24#comment-2445634
By developing their own “Cadillaguar”, General Motors would not have needed to attempt acquiring Jaguar in the 1980s had they pursued that route when they briefly considered creating a Cadillac from the XJ and developing a modern V12 from the 60-degree X V6 with help from Lotus (or Porsche and Cosworth depending on accounts at the time) to power it as shown later that decade in the 1989 Cadillac Solitaire concept.
Not forgetting as well the General contemplated the smaller XJ80 or Jersey Junior project by designer Cliff Ruddell, with GM proposing to use the platform that underpinned the Opel Omega & Senator or some version of it.
There is also another potential scenario to consider around the same period where GM through Vauxhall also end up buying the Daimler Company (UK) instead of Jaguar by way of the Cresta PA-based Daimler DN250 V8 prototype.
Which evolves into the low-volume Daimler V8 engine being replaced by the Slant Four based Vauxhall V8 and the stillborn Diplomat B-derived Cresta & Viscount PD (see Vauxpedia), instead replacing the Daimler Majectic Major as opposed to the Jaguar XJ-based Daimler Sovereign & Double Six.
Something else besides IRS that they should have introduced much earlier is an adjustable suspension, so their small car could have a smoother ride than Mercedes without becoming sloppy.
Opel KAD models >>> Opel KADette. I hadn’t noticed that before, I suppose because I’d heard of the latter long before the former. I assumed it was the German spelling of “cadet.”
The idea of using the Oldsmobile V8 in this Alt-Cadillac also allows the possibility of it to benefit from the features of the 4-valve W43 and 4-valve Quad-Cam WO43 projects.
Especially had Olds continued to persist with testing and then optimising emissions on the 4 valve engine instead of hastily deciding that the pent roof 4 valve arrangement would most probably not give good emission performance. They would have effectively hit the jackpot in performance, emissions and economy way ahead of their rivals.
https://pdmclark.co.za/oldsmobile-442/