My wife remembers events by what she wore. I, on the other hand, tend to remember what I drove to said events. Certainly our 2001 Ford Crown Victoria was the car we drove to many monumental and life-altering events in the nearly seven years we owned it. That reason alone is why I was so fond of the car when I owned it–and also why I am so ambivalent about it today.
We found it in May of 2005; actually, it was my father-in-law who found it. Knowing we were looking for a good solid second car for a cheap price, he’d spotted an ad for the Crown Vic in the St. Louis Post Dispatch and bought it, suspecting that I’d want it. Luckily for him, I did.
She had a mere 77,000 miles on her at the time. Although the purpose for which the car was built is quite obvious, the owner claimed to have been able to purchase it new. Sure, okay. It did have a few quirks about it, such as cloth front seats and a vinyl rear seat, but that worked out great since we had a three-year-old child at the time. I can understand why they’re made this way–any kind of spill can be hosed right off. In fact, more cars need to be built this way.
In retrospect, its history really didn’t matter. What did was what the Crown would ultimately provide for us.
This past April Fool’s Day, I claimed to have needed to make serious psychological adjustments when I turned 40 the previous fall. In actuality, I was rather happy to have done so, as my thirties were permeated with annoying health issues for my wife and myself. It is in this regard that the Crown Vic really stood out. Look at those front seats: Without a console (is there a law mandating those dumb things?), it’s possible to truly stretch out while riding shotgun. What a boon that was!
I had to have my annual upper endoscopy a few months after purchasing the car. Those are really a snap; I simply quit eating and drinking at 8:00 pm the night before. The next morning I get up, go to the hospital with a driver, get my torso wallpapered with electrodes (shaving is optional, but recommended) and get knocked out. It’s no big whoop–usually, that is. Once in a while, I do have some terrific side affects from the anesthesia, including the spewing all sorts of colorful words, phrases, and questions from my mouth. I’m told it’s great entertainment, but I remember none of it.
That year, my father-in-law, Tim, drove me there. He and I have a great relationship and will say pretty much anything to each other.
Tim claims I was in rare form that year; thankfully, he does have a great sense of humor. After the orderly wheeled me outside where Tim was waiting in the Crown Vic, I waited five minutes before this particular line of questioning took place (I’m told I also had similar questions for the nurse):
Me: “Hey, you’re 68, aren’t you?”
Tim: “No, I’m 67.”
Me: “Oh, okay, 67…hey, does everything still work?”
Tim: “What do you mean?”
Me: “You know, does everything still work like it should?”
I vaguely remember this part. Tim was merging onto I-270; having been a cab driver in the late ’60s, he still knows how to merge onto a busy interstate quite effectively. The Crown Vic’s 4.6-liter V8 was wound up pretty tight and singing its addictive overhead-cam song.
Tim: “Jason, I’m 67; I’m not dead. Let me tell you something…when that thing isn’t pointed at the floor, it will pull my fucking eye lids shut!!!”
Me: “That’s awesome! Man, that’s great. I bet Barb’s happy, too – she does smile a lot. I’m happy for you!”
If only all such trips had been so carefree. In addition to several more upper endoscopies (I’m ready to go for #14), the Crown would also ferry me back home after two major abdominal surgeries. Then it was my wife’s turn.
In late 2008, my wife suddenly became too dizzy to drive. A few doctor visits later, a specialist in Kansas City found the problem. The surgical cure required frequent follow-up visits due to the rarity of her ailment. Kansas City was on the other side of the state, and we nearly always took the Crown Vic. Unlike the Ford Taurus we also owned, the Crown actually allowed her to stretch out. Yes, small cars are dandy, but there will always be a need for large ones.
On one trip to Kansas City it began raining quite hard. On I-70, nine miles west of Columbia, Missouri (roughly the half-way point), the car died. As luck and good fortune would have it, it was at an interchange, so I eased off the road and coasted underneath the bridge. In a few moments the car would start. After we’d found a safe place to park, my wife became worried about how we’d get to Kansas City. I picked up the cell phone, contacted Enterprise Car Rental in Columbia, Missouri, and you know what? Enterprise will come out and pick up your sorry, stranded ass!
However, they arrived in a Nissan Versa about the size of a coffee table. I immediately asked for something more substantial but sadly, they had no Crown Vics in stock.
That wound up being the worst problem I ever had with the Crown. After digging into the matter, I learned that the crankshaft position sensor, which is nestled into the bottom of the engine, behind the air conditioning compressor, had two wires that were shorting out when they got wet.
It was this car that inspired my article on Ford’s 4.6-liter V8 (here)–a great engine that really sings when hooked to the right gearing. My Crown Vic had 3.27:1 gears out back, and the 4.6 is much happier with these than with the 2.73:1 axle in the retail Crown Vics.
All these pictures were taken when I was preparing to sell the car in May of 2011. Soon after taking these pictures, the plastic intake manifold failed. For the most part, the job of changing the intake was straightforward–except that one should never cut fuel lines under the hood. That is a huge no-no, as I quickly discovered. Thinking the lines between the two fuel rails were simply made of rubber, I cut them to get them out of the way. In fact, they were steel lines that had been covered with a rubber veneer, and so I successfully ruined the fuel rail and crossover set-up. Thankfully, about 30 minutes online and $40 netted me one from a junker.
It’s tough to sit down and try to recapture the memories involving a car you have owned for a long period of time. The exercise triggers many snippets in your past that otherwise would have been lost to time and brain clutter. When I began writing this, I had completely forgotten how good this car was in snow. I had also forgotten about the drive-thru animal park where critters scratched the dickens out of the passenger-side front door. I had forgotten about how Tim and I changed out the rear axle due to a bad pinion gear, and a trip to Wisconsin when a four-year-old ate 12 ounces of cheese curds in about five minutes. Or the cooler that drained in a trunk filled with luggage. And the small crack in the door panel caused by resting my knee against it.
The memories keep rising to the surface; oddly, though, I don’t remember what I was wearing in any one of them.
Great story. I still get to revel in Crown Vick-edness (at least when I can wrestle the keys away from my teens). Our 93 will hit 20 years old in another 2 months, and still has only 127K on it. Yours had all of those nice Police pieces on it, which would have surely made it a very nice car.
I am sure others will disagree, but there is something deeply satisfying to me about a drive in that car. The smooth, torqey V8 engine with its lovely sounds, and the quiet ride. Ours is sort of teetering on the edge of beater-dom now. I am going to have to write something about it one of these times.
Sorry, but at that time, I made a concerted effort to rent these and their Grand Marquis siblings every time I traveled and rented a car – especially on a trip to Chicago on Monday, Sept. 10, 2001 by way of Muncie to visit our plant there at the time.
You know what happened the next day…I was able to leave Chicago on the 12th…
All my rental CVs and GMs resolved me in my heart to NEVER own one. I never felt so detached from the road and it got scary at times. Believe-it-or-not, a Buick Century was a better car!
I did not like these cars no matter how much others seem to like and even love them.
My old 2004 Impala and my current 2012 are worlds – no, universes better.
Eric Van Buren can step in here, but I recall that earlier Vics like mine had sway bars that made for a tighter suspension. I always felt that mine was a decent handler.
The thing about a Panther is that it makes no demands of you. It just asks “what can I do for you” over and over. It idles smoothly and quietly, it cruises smoothly and quietly, and not much goes wrong with them.
JP, back then, before I started renting them, I REALLY wanted one of these, but after my experiences, I came to the conclusion: no way.
I agree with your comments, I just felt they were TOO floaty, and even for a cruiser like me, too much of a good thing.
Yes all the first aero Panthers had sway bars front and rear, not as big as those used on HPP, Police and Tow package vehicles but a rear sway bar none the less. It does make a serious difference in the way they drive.
I think it was 2000 or 2001, shortly after the new rear suspension was introduced 1998 that the rear sway bar was dropped and you could only get one with the HPP and Police packages.
My first was a HPP car so when I got a non HPP 92 I figured it was just normal for it to not be anywhere near as taut in the handling dept. Then one day I had it on a lift for some other work and found the bracket for the rear sway bar broken. I welded it back together and it made a huge difference in the way the car drove.
Good story. And I get you on the upper-endo anesthesia. My brother says we had a very amusing conversation in the car on the way home from my last one. I don’t remember a word of it, of course.
I’ve always wanted to drive the “cop model” just to see how those old CVs would perform with higher gearing and 250 hp. I’m amazed that there are no stories about how traffic reacted to your car or how many people thought they were being tailed by an undercover cop.
I took that part out of the story, but here’s one example: On the way to said upper endoscopy, I drove I-70 from Kansas City to St. Louis, a distance of not quite 200 miles. In the left lane. At 80+ mph. It was a few miles before I realized people were moving over to let me pass.
It made me realize a car like this is sorta like going to the zoo and sticking your finger in the monkey’s cage; it might go well or it
might not.
Just treat it like a girlfriend who has five older brothers who are all bigger than you and you should be fine.
Unfortunately, a driver in St. Louis county on I-70 was shot and killed because he was driving a box panther that was as plain-Jane as a cop car, and the criminal thought a cop was trailing him in the mid-80s… The driver was an old man.
Dan, I have this problem at night in my black Grand Marquis. It can be a bit annoying on city streets.
I’ve never driven a CV with the handling package. I have driven a few without and they were pretty “loose” to say the least. I was never really impressed with the 4.6 in these, never enough torque and have a distinctive moaning noise that I can hear as the po-lice accelerate past my house at night. (the new Tauri police cars sound lame in comparison though).
I have always thought they were handsome cars, and have been known to lust after the Maurader once in a while.
The moaning noise you describe is the differential; they all do that.
Sorry, I should have said distinctive induction roar instead. Its more of a moan and always makes me think the car is trying to say “don’t make me do this”
The engine is just taking a deep breath as it begins to run all out…more of a soft, self-assured roar. And it loves to be held in first til about 45 or 50 then manually shifted (A/T) into 2nd. Not the fastest car on the road, but amazingly fast in more or less normal traffic. Eats on ramps for breakfast.
Passes on a two-lane road lightning quick…no need to fall back, then speed up to have more speed than the car in front of you before pulling out into the left lane. Just punch it (with the gear of your chce engaged, or let the trans do it for you) and it will roar ahead around the car you are passing.
If you have a quarter of a mile in front of you before the oncoming car, at 55mph, you never feel like it was even close. Just floor it and turn the wheel, aim it down the left lane, look over your shoulder as soon as you have passed, just to make sure the other car isn’t supercharged or dropped a nitrous shot on you to keep up, and then pull back into line. By then, you will need to brake to get your speed back down, as you will have gained 30mph before you realize it. as well as many car lengths.
As exhilarating as it needs to be, in a two ton car with fifty per cent more trunk room than the larger imported cars.
And that is with the single exhaust 190 hp motor and the 2.73 rear end. A bit slow off the line and a bit constrained as to speed above about 110, but a torque monster between about 35 and 85mph.
The diff, along with the electrics and spark plugs, are the weak points of the Crown Vic.
Very few years have the problems you describe if at all. The diff is bullet proof but they did have problems with bad axle shafts in a few years. When those fail they can often take out the diff and pinion bearings, not necessarily right away but down the road when the tech didn’t remove all the contamination. There are also a couple of years that seemed to have higher pinion bearing failure rates than other years but as a whole the 8.8 is very bullet proof in the Panther.
I’ve never seen serious or common issues with the “electrics” they only thing related to that would be window regulators that fail, which is one of the weak points.
The Panther’s didn’t get the PI heads that initially had the reduced plug thread count like the trucks did so there are very few Panthers that made it out the door with the problem head design. If there were problems it was almost certainly due to the tech and not the head design. The intake manifold on some years was the weak point as far as engines go.
I have a lot of miles behind the wheel of Crown Vics. They are great cars, tough as nails, handle well for a big car, decent brakes, good interior space. Even the 250 hp 4.6L are a little on the slow side for my tastes, very little low end punch for a V8. When they are wound out, by todays standards they are no rocket by any stretch. The best part of the 4.6L is not the power, or the sound, but it’s durability (well, sans the plastic intake versions). I much prefer the stiff Police suspension, to the stock soft suspension, especially on our rough roads we have around here. The 3.27 gearing is optimal for these cars, 2.73 is way too sluggish. I have never driven a 3.55 gear versions. I also prefer the 2003+ versions with the updated chassis, steering and suspension. Much nicer driving car than the old versions.
I don’t know what kind of winter’s you have, but we have very harsh ones. And a Crown Vic is not very good in the snow. A limited slip makes these cars very tail happy, which CAN be fun, but also annoying at times too. Even with winter tires, these cars have terrible traction compared to a typical FWD car. My old 2WD Suburban ran circles around a Crown Vic in the snow even with crappy all-seaons on the ‘burb.
I have not driven a CV with the 3.55 final drive but I did own an F150 with the 4.6 and a 3.55 final drive for several years, back in the late 90’s. Granted that the truck was bigger and heavier than a Crown Vic, but even with the (fairly) short final drive, I was not impressed by the 4.6. It was smooth enough but didn’t develop enough “oomph” to suit me, especially since I was getting around 12 mpg around town, and this in a RWD truck. I understand why they went to the OHC motor but for trucks (& big SUV’s) the pushrod engines, with their max torque at lower rpm’s, was a better way to go. FWIW my 2011 Mustang has the same issue; the 3.7L V6 is powerful enough but must be wound up to high rpm to get any real forward momentum.
I also never liked the 4.6. We tried one as a taxi and it soon had the famous spark plug issue, which resulted in a new head. The early ones also had valve problems. In short, there were not nearly as good as the Olds 88, for taxi use anyway. And yes, they tend to be hard on gas because they get stomped on to get any forward momentum.
It’s amazing what a difference DOHC can make. The 4.6 was my favorite part of my 97 Continental. It absolutely sang at upper RPM’s, and was never out of breath, even with FWD setup and all that Lincoln hanging out behind it.
I have to agree with you on post 2003 point. I have driven, over the years, My younger brothers’ 93 Grand Marquis and his 2005 Crown Vic quite extensively and the difference is night and day. I hated driving the 93, approximate steering and tracking, recalcitrant and obstinant transmission and wallow wallow wallow down the road. His 2005 actualy feels like a relatively modern car. It tracks well. steers lightly but quite accurately and has a transmission that does not upshift at absurdly low rpm when passing with the right pedal floored as the 93 did. The only sensation left from the earlier car is that sense as you go down the road that the whole car is jiggling beneath you.
Other electric and related problems were the LCM Lighting Control Module, I believe from about 2001 to 2005 IIRC. Check the NHTSA recall site for details.
And the blendgate on EATC the Electronic Automatic Temperature Control. Actually a mechanical failure and a bear to pull out the dash to replace. My GM didn’t get the EATC, as the geezer original owner thought a lot like this approaching geezerhood second owner does…keep it simple…get the solid options, but avoid the hokey “lazy man” features that are prone to premature breakage coupled with expensive repairs.
Fortunately the original owner (the O/O) fixed the plastic intake manifold when it first began leaking, before it did a full coolant dump.
I will admit to putting a now discontinued super chips 87 octane tune and a bit of shifting beefiness on it, but all of what I wrote was still true before then, just more so now.
Rented a CV last year for a NYC-DC drive. Had the LX Sport appearance pack but didn’t have the old LX Sport suspension upgrade. I wanted a full-size because hey! I was in America. I was expecting an Impala and I got there and they said they had a car for me but for $20 I could get an Escape. I asked them what the car was and they said a Crown Vic. Hell yeah! The only thing more American would have been an Escalade.
It was a great interstate cruiser, but my brief drive through Manhattan was long enough to reveal a very disturbing characteristic that even my passenger noticed. Hitting a bump, it wasn’t just a thunk. The entire car felt like it shimmied and shifted on its chassis. Not sure if that’s par for the course for BOF cars, I was used to driving a 2004 Falcon which for performance, interior quality, refinement was light years ahead of the Vic. These Vic’s have charm though, but I’ve always been amazed how a big V8 sedan can still be such a common taxi cab
From what I understand it’s mostly a matter of serviceability and cheap parts. From a passenger’s perspective they’re a bit more awkward in the back than you’d expect (which surprised me, having grown up with a Town Car, though it had longer wheelbases) and I’m always thankful when an xB is at the cab pick-up/drop-off—although I don’t generally like more upright seating positions, it is nice for getting in and out of a cab. And of course, an xB or any of the assorted hybrid cabs (I like the Prius cabs too, mainly for the novelty of riding in an aggressively-driven Prius) have much, much better city mileage and are fairly bulletproof in terms of reliability, helping make up for their greater mechanical complexity (caveat: I might think otherwise if I carried a lot of luggage, but I tend to travel light).
Yup they decided that the rental cars would have better resale with the LX-sport wheels, unfortunately that was the only part the got. I also suspect that the later Fleet LX started getting some of the same bushings as the P-71 but with even softer springs than ever before. The LX-sport’s suspension was unique, they got the low rate air springs instead of the high rate on a HPP car, supposedly to compensate for the stiffer sidewalls of the 55 series rubber.
It’s been said many times before, but I’ll say it again. Ford should not have stopped building these cars. For those that have a taste for them, like me, there’s nothing else that works as well. I’ve used mine on road trips, four up and plenty of luggage, in 95 plus degree heat, with the A/C chilling us nicely, even at 80 mph and more. My 2008 Grand Marquis is completely unfazed by this treatment. Yes, there are many cars that will beat it by one measurement or another, but taken as a whole, there’s nothing like them.
I’ll second that. All they needed to do was a mild refresh of the engines offered and they could have dominated the police vehicle market for another 10-15 yrs on inertia alone.
A Hybrid model that allowed 1-2hrs or AC and electrical power with the motor off could have offered significant improvements in fuel consumption.
An independent rear suspension should also have been added. Live axles simply don’t cut it in today’s world.
The CV was simply too old to keep and looking at Ford’s sales these days, they are making the correct decisions. The fact is the police market is so small it doesn’t warrant keeping a specific model in production for it.
Live axles and BOF construction have been un known outside the US since the 60s just how old fashioned are these?
I never understood why the 4.6 2V was kept all the way to the end in the CV. The much more potent 3V made its way into virtually everything else by 2006 and it would have dropped right in. Instead the very outdated 2V lingered on solely in the Crown vic and the base F series
Of course Ford’s had been trying to phase these out since the mid 80s so I can find solace in that it had a pretty good run.
Here’s me autocrossing my stock `99 Grand Marquis LS. I rather enjoy autocrossing it, and know all too well the place where Jason’s knee would hit the door panel. After a day of autocrossing, my knee was bruised!
I bet that is a blast. Must be a challenge wedging that beast in and out of a tight course though!
I’ve seen a B-body Impala SS autocross and he had his hands full, but its all about having a good time, so I respect people showing up in cars that most people laugh at the thought of autocrossing.
When I autocrossed with the Northeast SHO club there was a guy who would show up in a plain Taurus sedan rental (vulcan V6 and all) and drive the crap out of it. Most of the SHO guys turned their nose up to him, and he was quicker than most of those guys and was having at least as much fun as they were.
It is a blast, but alas, it’s not as much fun as my other autocrosser:
(forgive the picture, it was an awful day)
I almost spit my coffee onto the computer screen.
One word….Awesome
What suspension mods have you done on the wagon? I hope you’ve upgraded the 307 Olds….I had an Olds Custom Cruiser, it was a great highway car, other than the lack of power.
Absolutely nothing on both fronts, Bill. It’s completely stock.
Oh hell yes. . .
This is a car that seems to be polarizing. I just loved the box town car I had (86). It was the first year of the swept intake and EFI. When the new model blues got sorted out it was great. I think i would enjoy driving it today just as well as I did then. A small trailer allowed me to get everything done that I needed to do.
So this is the car that has a reputation for bulletproof durability in hundreds of thousands of cop and taxi miles, yet it loses the crank position sensor, intake manifold, door panels and the rear end in under 200k miles? Hmmm ….
Dman, interesting observation, although I would not say they are indicative of these. The intakes were a Ford issue, as referenced in the linked article. The crank sensor never went bad, but the o-ring did. A little silicon grease fixed it for the last 3 years I owned it. The traction lock axle had not had the fluid changed as per the maintenance schedule, so is that a reflection of the car or how it was treated?
Nice article, I’ve always liked the idea of having one of these or actually one of the previous square ones, of course it would need a vanity license plate that says “BAD LTNT”
I have driven this car. Actually a later model cop version. Many of the old taxi and ambulette services in New York buy these second hand. I have to say it is refreshing to drive a RWD without traction control. You can really feel the difference between FWD and RWD. The car Launches rather than pulls and you can burn the tires easily. Kinda fun to mess around with. My only real complaint were the front seats. I actually liked the fabric but they were not supportive and really turned my back into mush. That being said, I really like they way these cars look and drive and would love to own one. So many parts available anywhere and everything is modular. Granted they ain’t great on gas but you can get a good car in good shape for like $3500 and keep it running for 150,000 miles. Like Vladimir Lennin wrote, “Quantity has a quality all its own.” This car is like a T-34 tank, not the prettiest but will always get the job done.
The previous seller might have been telling the truth about buying it new. The cars get shipped from Ford with the spot light and the vinyl rear seat(aka the puke seat) to dealers and are sold that way to police agencies. The police agency that bought the car would customize it for their needs.
You could go into most Ford dealers and ask to buy a Crown Vic CVPI(aka the P71) and most would sell it to you especially towards the end of the month. In Maryland there is no issue with a Vic with a spot light. Those spot lights were an option on a lot of cars in the 40’s to 1960’s.
The local dealership near me(Apple Ford) would sell you a Police Vic with no issue.
Your car’s past owner could be the first owner of it. Or if it was a police car it was not a patrol car as the door trim on the drivers side and passenger side front doors is not cut to put the police logo on it
P71s get shipped with the front door trim in the trunk so that agencies can leave it off if the door logo interferes with it or cut it to fit around the logo.
Our local Ford dealer had them shipped with the door trim in place, but that may have been requested by the police dept. I remember looking at the last order of P71’s when they came in off the truck.
The association between your ride and your life is strong. Several years ago, I sold my superclean LT1 powered Roadmaster wagon and bought a primo Buick Park Avenue Ultra in black with the supercharged 3800. About a year into ownership, I was diagnosed with an ultra rare cancer that required treatment about an hour away from home. Very quickly, I came to associate the beautiful whir of the supercharger with nausea and pain. After recovery, I gladly took a $4k hit to trade those rolling memories on the plainest silver Accord ever produced.
I suspect that may be one reason why my 1984 RX7 doesn’t get driven as much as it should. I made quite a few trips in it to the nursing home where my father lived out his last days, all his systems pretty much shutting down at once. I don’t like that street much either, even though it’s the quick route to several other places I go to at times.
Same reason I specifically asked Enterprise to NOT give me a Mazda 3 when I went back to Canada last summer to deal with my mom’s passing and disposal of her estate-The last view I had of her alive was waving goodbye to her at her window from behind the wheel of one on a cold dark morning in Feb 2012 going to the airport to go back to Korea.
Of course that’s all they had when I got there, in the same color.
Interesting Ive not seen many Crown Vics they never sold here new but of course some have arrived used and theres one locally with wagon wheels on it looks kinda stupid. I do like the sound of a Ford V8 and our local Falcons have them Ive heard several drop out of overdrive and roar on hills as I pull past them in top gear in my little Diesel sound great but no guts/torque. Ford in our Market havent offered a BOF car since the mid 60s the greater body integrity offered by unitary constructionsent that method of car building back to the Flintstone era it came from. You guys really should drive a Modern RWD Ford they are lightyears ahead of this old banger even though a base model Falcon is considered a poor handling car it would be a revelation to Americans
I had an XE Falcon for a time, in Australia. Not a great driver’s car by any means (and the motor on mine was crap, which was supposedly par for the course), but it was a good cheap beater that was useful for fulfilling its mission of driving on marginal roads in the middle of nowhere, including on quite a few unpaved outback tracks, all without 4WD or breaking (too much).
The Crown Vic fulfilled a similar role here for urban duty. It was a decent cop car because the police could beat the crap out of it (constant idle, driving over curbs, etc.), which then made it a good second-hand car for cab drivers (same excessive idling, only slightly less brutal driving style.)
But as someone who is neither a cop or a cab driver, I have no nostalgia for them whatsoever. Blandtastic would be a polite way to describe them, and there are so many better cars for civilian use that I find it hard to understand all of the fuss about them. (Then again, I can’t find anyone in the real world who loves them as much as they do on the interwebs.)
I am no fan of the Panthers except for the 1990-97 Town Car, but yours is a very cool ride. It’s in immaculate condition and the specs are incredible. That shot of the speedo showing near-new condition is what you would see in an eBay ad (no doubt from yours) but with 1/3 of the mileage. Nice article Jason!
I can relate to the travel for medical reasons, I make on avarage 6 400 km trips to the hospital a month. My vehicle of choice is a volvo S-70 (98). The heated leather make for a relaxing drive back home after hours of being poked and prodded. Today I used my mothers 12 civic for this purpose and though it is not quite as comfortable their is somthing to be said for 40+ mpg compaired to maybe 27 in the volvo. While I do like the mileage the civic returns I dont like the windnoise, tire howel and over reactive electric assist steering. To me the volvo is finda and in between vehicle that has similar charactistics to a CV, it is nearly effortless to drive dosnt hunt for gears on the uphill and handles decent in the city. BUT. If gas was cheap Id be driving a loaded 2wd 85 suburban.
Hmm, interesting thread and comments. I’m always a bit shocked by the love the Panthers get (on this site and TTAC). I don’t have anything against the Crown Vic but it does nothing for me. I mostly associate it with taxis, cop cars and the elderly with blue hair.
As an aside, anyone have experience with both the Panther series and the Toyota Avalon? The reason I ask is that to me, the Avalon is the Japanese equivalent of a large sedan and interstate cruiser (although it’s FWD, 6 cylinder, etc.).
I worked with a guy who bought an early (97?) Avalon for his wife, and would occasionally drive it to work. I owned my 93 Crown Vic LX part of that time (and an 89 Cad Brougham before it). The Avalon was nice, but always felt small to me. It felt like a very nice, slightly bigger Camry. I missed the width of the big Yank cars.
The Avalon was certainly comfy, fairly quiet, and a nice cruiser, but I never found it quite as smooth on the highway as my Vic or my Cad. It was, however, certainly more modern.
I’m glad you have positive things to say about Crown Vics, because I can’t thing of a single nice thing about them. Even the back seat was uncomfortable, although to be fair anything would be uncomfortable when you’re in handcuffs.
I especially hate the fact that people creep on you because they know that you think they’re cops. You guys know exactly what I’m taking about, you’re white-knuckling it and going slow, and who is it coming up behind you? It’s some teenager playing games, or worse, some old blue-hair parting the seas like Moses because everybody’s thinking that they’re the fuzz.
I’ll never, ever like these cars. I Internet-danced on their grave when Ford finally, mercifully retired them. I suppose I can see why someone might like them, but not me.
Don’t knock it until you try it, it’s very nice to always have open road in front of you.
Loved this chat. I never owned one, but would not mind the police version. I recall once a local police officer took off on an emergency right from the police department, engine roaring, lights flashing, etc. for about a half block, then a right turn and on up the street, still going.
I thought about how I would never have heard that roar — when I was a deputy sheriff, we had Ford 390/330s, and you would not have heard the roar — just the tires squalling.
I help my friend wrench on his 98 Vic from time to time, and have driven it a couple times. Gotta say, I love that car. I’ll probably have to get me one someday, just for the hell of it.
Having driven a box panther for four years as my first car (’87 Crown Vic) and newer Grand Marquis and Town Cars as rentals, my feeling on these is the power that was gained from the 4.6 over the 5.0 was offset by incredible decontenting on the inside. I never drove a ’90s version so I’m not sure when that decontenting began, but I found a ’09 Town Car to be significantly less luxurious than the ’87 Vicky. Everything felt plasticky and flimsy. And the ride in these seems to have harshened throughout the 2000s as well. The ’87 was pretty soft, maybe too soft; it seemed to wallow more than either my ’87 Brougham or ’77 Electra that have followed. But the two 2000s Panthers I’ve driven did not soak up the bumps anything like the ’87 or the two GM RWD C-Bodies I reference. And it may be an HD suspension on the NYC cabs, but they sure ride harshly, too.
I will definitely miss riding in Panther cabs as compared to the cramped little cars or high up SUVs increasingly offered. They were easy in, easy out and great for stretching out or getting cozy with a date. Can’t do that so well in a Camry with a plastic divider. But definitely the more recent Panthers in which I rode in and drove, felt like a real quality drop off. They also seemed so bland inside compared to their predecessors. I felt like the ’87 was a nice mixture of comfort without the tacky crests and labeling all around (which was present on my Brougham). The newer iterations felt spartan in comparison…the interiors to a base economy car.
I think that the consensus is that Panther de-contenting happened after 96 for Town Cars, possibly 97 for CV and MGM. My 93 is quite nice inside. It is not quite as “70s-baroque” as the 80s cars were, but was fairly luxurious in a cleaner, 90s kind of way. Pretty much everything Ford made got cheapened out around those years. From personal experience, the Ford Club Wagons got the cost cutter scissors after the 96 models.
I seem to recall that the ’97 Town Cars list the flip-up lock cover on the trunk and the robe cords on the front seat backs. The ’97 was still a looker though.
These were great bullet-proof cruisers. I have always wanted the Mercury Marauder and still may own one someday when I no longer need a truck for towing. I have the 4.6 3V in my Sport trac and really like that powerplant.
Hello, Mark – just noticed your comment. Glad to see you found us, and I hope you are enjoying the place.
Rented one of these in ’08 for the drive from Newark Airport to JFK. Held the whole family and all of their luggage while I stressed on the trans-NYC traffic – reminded me of my ’60’-70’s childhood spent in RWD BOF V8 Detroit iron. I specifically remember thinking at the time, “I hope this is the last time any of my kids spend any time in the back seat of a CV…”
love these cars. I have a former police demo 2000 that I paid practically nothing for and was able to replace all damaged interior and exterior parts by simply making a few cheap trips to the pick & pull. They are like owning and driving an old car without the rarity and expense and finicky old systems and impossible to find parts…I’d love a 77 New Yorker coupe or something like that, but I can drive the Vic to work every day and not worry about it. I live in southern AZ, so snow & curves aren’t really an issue…rides nice and smooth on the freeway which is most of what I do. It gets 22 mpg, which is 6 less than my GTI does….and I will NEVER make up the purchase price difference in gas savings. I am very careful to not act like a cop with it…but yes, you do get a certain amount of lanes magically opening up for you for just existing..another benefit. Not screamingly fast, but off the line it is quick enough that you tend to beat anyone at the light that you need to. Corners pretty well, actually. I’m glad that most people are not interested in these…to me they are one of the absolute best fun car bargains that exist. You can buy nice ones all day long for 3 grand and drive them 200K.
In 2006 I inherited my father’s 1994 MGM GS. It had sustained some nasty body damage from a hurricane but I got it all fixed and repainted. This was my introduction to Panthers and soon learned to love them. Spacious, quiet, and very reliable. Gas mileage on road trips (about 400 r/t) was in the high 20s. Incredible for a car that size. Unfortunately the car was stolen a few years later. We now have a 2002 TC with 171k and looks and rides like new. Love this car!
Yes, once Hertz in Philadelphia rented me a white Crown Vic.
I already wear aviator-style eyeglasses, and held my scanner in my hand on the steering wheel. Watching the reactions of everybody around me was like old times when I WAS a cop.
I bought a 1999 crown vic, had to do the intake and have the alt rebuilt because of the intake spraying antifreeze into the alt. other than that it been nothing but oil changes for 45,000 miles. Just did shocks all around and rear springs. Put real dual exhaust on it, felt like 30 horse (mine had tiny single exhaust). Bought a tuner (93 octane tune) does nothing but ping. Did the Trans tune to adjust shift points. Diff fluid change is next. Now has 142,000 miles. Cold A/C, seats are a little stiff, other than that it’s been a great car for the Initial $1,200 purchase price with 98,000 miles on it. Mine does have the PI heads and intake, I think 1999 was the first year for the PI set up. I think a switch to a 3.27 gears would make the acceleration more acceptable. Installed the black grill and mirror covers. It’s neat to see people move out of the way and then give you a dirty look as you go by. Fast lane forever!
Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but I just bought the Crown Vic’s sister car, a Mercury Grand Marquis, a few months ago. Mine is a 2006 model which had 57,000 miles on it when I bought it. I have put nearly 20,000 trouble free miles on it since then, and am going to shoot for 300,000. I used to work for a city fleet services department, and we had quite a few of these cars. I grew to love them. The GM B body had been dropped several years earlier, leaving the Panther cars as the only full size American sedans available. Even the newer models are easy to work on. You can get to everything you need to under the hood. For their size and weight they get incredible gas mileage. I have hit 30 mpg before. The trunk is huge, and you can fit 6 people in one if you have to. I usually drive alone, and there is a ton of room to move around without being locked into one position like you are in most small cars. These cars work fine in town, their turning radius is smaller than a P/T Cruiser. But where they really shine is out on the highway at freeway speeds. They are smooth and comfortable, very soft suspension with just enough road feel to let you know you are in a car and not a hovercraft. They love to eat up miles. They handle great for such a big car, and have plenty of power. They are the last of the big V8 powered RWD BOF American sedans. They underwent a major chassis redesign in 2003, with a whole new front end, rack and pinion steering, and air assisted suspension. Mine has 4 wheel discs. I hope this will be my last car. If the engine or transmission fails, I will replace it. To me this is kind of an “anti-Prius” car. It may be fairly new, but still embodies most of what I love about much older American land yachts. Nobody is going to mistake it for a Toyota.
Reminds me of my Marauder, excepting of course the wheels and the Ford logos. But the Silver Birch Marauders got black grilles, so the family resemblance is definitely strong. Also reminds me of the Marauder in the number of memories I had in that car–owned through five of the most eventful years of my life, including meeting and courting my future wife. Really very few bad memories associated with it, so no complications other than the nagging feeling that I never should have sold it. But hey, at least I still have the girl.
I’m fast drawing on 4 years of ownership of the ’97 Vic but it has very few memories associated with it, pleasant or otherwise. I guess that’s what happens with a car that is almost exclusively a commuter–it’s the green chamber that occurs between my bed and my work chair, and then back home again. But it is a very comfortable seat in which to mentally ramp up for and ramp down from the workday.
I Love my P71. It Just Goes .
Owned a ’01 Gr Marquis for 12 years and 210,000 miles. Replaced an intake manifold, a heater core, an alternator, a couple of water pumps, and a coil pack… plus more tires and brakes than I’d care to count. In that time, the car never needed to be introduced to a tow truck. That’s a record of some sort. I miss it- until I look at the Charger that replaced it.
Here it is the day before the new family got it. It’s still on the road as a daily commuter.
I had a 2003 Vic Sport model with duals, handling suspension, mag wheels, lower rear axle ratio, leveling rear suspension etc. The car was dark blue with no chrome except the door handles and had a grey leather interior with a console and huge bucket seats. The frame, suspension and steering were new that year—rack and pinion, a stiffer frame and many aluminum suspension parts.
The car was a good runner and good handler. Very comfortable and my wife and I, who’d both retired in 2004 at 55 years of age, took several long road trips in it. I also liked it as a social statement: the ultimate anti yuppie car. And so uncool to conventional people that it actually was very cool.
We lived in Chicago and my wife wouldn’t drive the big thing in the city. So in 2005 at her urging we bought a CTS. Which was aces with me.
My CV is a P73, but I’ve added some goodies such as a factory style dual exhaust, P71 rear stabilizer bar, and a cold air intake. I hate the 2.73 gears–they really do hamstring what is otherwise an awesome engine. My CV is a low-mile cream puff in super nice condition–almost too nice to drive everyday to a factory in Ormond Beach. I’m considering finding a good used P71 to use as the daily commuter and keep my “baby” in the garage and use it on the weekend. In this part of Florida we have a local dealer who sells old P71s for good money. They are not perfect, mind you, but serviceable and with complete records.
This is a photo of the “Crown Queen” right after a Mothers Speed Clay 2.0 job.