What I wanted my Jetta to look like
Cars have always been a passion of mine since early childhood; quite likely because my Dad also loved cars too. Unfortunately, Dad didn’t always make the best car purchases. Sometimes, yes;, but often not. This is where I probably inherited the inability to stand success and keep a good car until it was used up, or past repairing. I have had many a great car that I simply flipped because I was bored or thought something better would come along. The Fahrvergnügen experience made me realize I could get one thing right and sell the car before it caused me to lose a limb or two in the ridiculous amounts of repairs my German Driving Machine would have cost me.
Really, it was time to go
In 1976, my family were English refugees from the province of Quebec, which was in the process of passing racist, anti-English laws. My parents saw the writing on the wall and I ended up in a small town on the east coast of Vancouver Island. It was quite a shock after cosmopolitan Montreal. My older brother and sister quickly saw that Small Town BC was not a happening place unless you chopped down trees and drank copious amounts of draught beer every day, so they flew the coop almost instantly. This left me alone, and at age twelve, with plenty of free time. This time was devoted to car magazines, mostly Car and Driver.
Well, for Car and Driver at the time, German cars were the pinnacle of everything. No amount of superlatives could describe them. By age fourteen, I was completely committed to German cars, they being the Highest Order of The Universe. I could spout every statistic associated with any German car model and proudly pronounced them as the best driving cars on the face of the planet. The fact that I had never been in anything but a Beetle and didn’t have a driver’s license only increased my desire of All Things German.
Me, in 1986
My 1978 Rabbit certainly drove well and had excellent all around dynamics. I sold Scuba Bunny in 1986, the same year I graduated from my Bachelor’s degree. I was working in the family garage/taxi business and was making pretty good money. I decided I really wanted a NEW car, not a used one and of course, it HAD to be GERMAN. I mean, German cars were the best. I convinced myself the reason we never saw them at our shop was they were so good. The Golf was out of the race because it was built in America so it had to be a Jetta. The problem for me was the price: even the cheapest model, the two door, gas, with nothing, not even power steering, was $10,400. That is just under $20,000 in today’s money, not cheap at all, especially for a car that plain. For example, we just looked at a Hyundai Accent for Annie and it was $19,000 loaded. What’s worse, the interest rate on the loan back then was 13.9%, meaning whopping payments. I would never do this now but at age 21, I was young and foolish, so I took the plunge.
Exactly how I felt at the time…
The dealer experience was horrible. The owner was a German guy (who was actually named Rudy) who had the attitude, “Should I let you have one of the Vaterland’s pieces of auto-artwork?” I was completely ignored when I entered the stealership; they evidently thought I could never afford one of their fine products. I eventually found a sales woman who was shocked I was there and tried to sell me a used Rabbit. I went out and found exactly what I wanted, a base, gas two door Jetta in white. She was totally shocked that I had $2000 in cash for a deposit. In we went and the deal was written up; they would not budge one cent on the price, either. If I wanted the joys of German Driving, I was going to have pay full price for it.
This was the line-up for ’87. The ’86s were almost the same
The car drove and handled very well. The body structure was really solid and the tweed upholstery looked like it was going to last forever. The 90 hp 1.8 litre gas motor was more than enough power for the light car and the 5 speed transmission really did fall readily to hand. Driving the car on a windy road was really a load of fun since without power steering, you had superlative road feel.
This was a Canadian spec car, whose emission controls were not nearly as strict in the USA, so my Jetta had no catcon and ran on regular fuel. The K-Jetronic system was really good, and the power of the motor was really smooth and linear. It wasn’t a powerhouse, but it revved up to 5500 very well, where the long-stoke engine reached its power peak and would not go any higher. I wanted this car because I knew there were loads of cheap, high-po parts for them, all easy bolt-ons.
Beautiful Qualicum Beach, site of the first (of many) Jetta Maladies
As soon as I got the car, of course I had to make a road trip up the Island to show my friends, so Friday after work I headed to Campbell River, about 300 km from Victoria. It was a fine, sunny day and my girl and I really enjoyed the first leg of the trip. However, right around Qualicum, it started to miss intermittently, then one cylinder went dead. “How could this be happening?” I thought, this is a GERMAN CAR, and GERMAN CARS are the best and never break, especially when they had like 400 km on the clock. I limped the car into Campbell River, to the VW dealer that was closed on Saturday so I had to wait until Monday morning. Of course I was due for work then, too, but I was not going to risk driving my pride and joy back on three cylinders.
The Famous (for us) Big Rock of Campbell River
Thus we got a nice hotel and decided to make a holiday of it. Good thing, too, since the diagnosis was a bad injector, the only replacement being in Toronto. I was assured it would be there first thing Wednesday and I would be on my way, and that, “Oh, these cars have bad injectors all the time, that is why we are out of stock on them” really made my feel secure about my German Dream. Said part in fact came in on Friday; I had missed a week of work. I should have taken the bus back to Victoria and gone back to get the car the following weekend. Live and learn, eh?
So started the Tale of Woe named Jetta, an experience that is still with me to this day. Call me foolish or naïve, but when I buy a new car, I expect it to be perfect. If it is not, then I expect the dealer to fix it in a reasonable time, with the least inconvenience possible. Seems this idea never occurred to my local VW dealer. The car had one problem after another; each time it did, off to the dealer I went. Some service guy would greet me, look at me like I was a human cockroach and then tell me I was being too picky.
One actually told me, “Well, you have to be prepared for things to go wrong and ignore minor stuff.” At first, the worst problem was a broken spring in the driver’s seat, that stuck right into the small of my back. After five or more trips, they flat out told me they would not fix it. I had to take it to another dealer 100 km away, where I was told, “Oh, they all do this. There was a bad lot of them. The techs hate doing the job because they lose money on it, so they always report it NFF (no fault found).” Oh joy, I could see that the VW experience was going to be, ahem, rather challenging.
Where Jetta and I lived, Victoria, BC, Soviet Canuckisan
When the car ran right, it really was a cool ride. The interior room was amazing, visibility excellent and the trunk huge. In fact, the car exuded a feeling of quality. In reality, I later discovered, that German cars have a great body structure. It is everything that is attached to the stout body that is crap. In the first year I had the car, it had many issues. Bushings in the front end failed, a strut leaked, another misfire due to a bad coil and a few other smaller ones. It really shouldn’t have been a huge thing to fix these issues, but every time the car had a problem, it took at least three stealership visits to have the problem rectified.
When I added up the time I didn’t have the car to drive, it was sixty-three days in the year. I had made two payments and not gotten to drive the car. I vividly remember when the driver’s side strut failed. I was leaking all over the place and the front end jumped around like a pogo stick; the tech then pronounced that he “Couldn’t feel anything on test drive, NFF.” I then showed the Service Manager, (another German with rather limited social skills) a puddle of oil on the ground and he grudgingly arranged to get it fixed. Installing that strut took, get this: three days and they stuck me with the bill for the alignment, saying that warranty didn’t cover it. I flatly refused to pay anything and drove away.
Must have been Invented for VW dealers
I could go on and on about the experience of German car ownership but it is simply too painful. The Jetta had one problem after another. Even changing to another dealer didn’t make a difference; the new one was just as bad. I later learned that the cars were so bad that the techs made no money on the warranty repairs, so they kicked them out as fast as they could so they could, and try to make some money on retail stuff. After two years of Jettadom, I had enough.
The warranty was just about to expire and I shuddered at the thought of paying retail repairs on the thing, even if I did get it at cut price (Dad was old school; all repairs in the garage by family members were charged at internal rate, me included). I decided to return to school for a graduate degree and I could neither afford the payments nor the headaches. Fortunately, depending on what side you are on, the Canuckistani Peso took a real dump between 1986 and 1988, mostly due to the reckless spending our Borrow and Spend Conservative government of the time (we have something quite similar now, by the way). New Jettas were going for truly insane money, like $14,000 for the car I paid $10,400 for only two years before. I advertised the Jetta at $9500 and I was really surprised at the number of calls I got. The allure of German Car Ownership was alive and well in Canuckistan. I sold the car to a young couple for $8950. I had driven it for two years for about $3000 including interest costs. Not a bad exit for the horrible experience.
One of a handful of XJ750s in Canada
I had enough cash left over for a nice motorcycle and the first year of tuition, so things were not so bad. The Jetta was a really sobering experience and not unlike many I have heard from other German car owners. I can see why VW was such a bit player in North America for so long; the cars are just too hard to live with. Sure, they drive well but you are constantly fixing, adjusting or replacing stuff and the dealers were awful.
It really made me re-evaluate Japanese cars because those damned things darned never ever broke except at very high mileage. We never made anything on them in the garage, except tires and brakes, which were loser for us, too. From that point I told myself any car I drive is going to be the top, or near the top of the reliability ratings. That of course meant “Japanese” and I have never been disappointed with any Japanese car I have ever had. I have had three for long periods and the were all bullet proof. The German car thing for me was a real wake up into the reality of life: your dreams often don’t translate into reality. My next car was the polar opposite to the Jetta but we will have to wait for next week to hear why.
The car you wanted yours to look like is, looks to be missing the rear side window.
To each their own.
Maybe it is a Canadian thing.
One thing you have to remember, is that ALL, repeat, ALL, VW dealers are pond scum.
I worked as a salesman for one in 1987, and the way I saw people get treated was astonishing.
Item-Watched service writer tell customer point blank, rudely, “sorry we’re
closed” 5 minutes after closing time.
Item-Out of Province Audi 5000 comes in on hook (the way most came).
Audi Card 3 year warranty expressly promises loaner. Loaner denied.
Customer freaks. Then service receptionist asks customer if he has an
appointment . This was an unscheduled breakdown.
Item-Dealer used to remove the factory window stickers and replace them
with his own, marked up a couple of thousand.
Most VW franchises exist in order to sell used cars off the used lot.
The new cars and attendant warranty headaches were just a necessary
evil.
In my extended family, we owned a number of VW-Audi products throughout the 80s, including Jetta, Rabbit, Golf, Audi 5000. Thankfully, we made it through rehab and have now sworn off these POS.
In your opinion, has VW been able to correct these issues or is the reliability still subpar? I ask because I have been into test drive GTI s 2 or 3 times in the past decade but each time I ‘ve walked away with too many questions to pull the trigger.
They’re great little cars but their prices and the dealer memories of my 80 Rabbit L keep me from grabbing for the pen. Now I don’t even consider VW as a viable option.
Nor do I; after driving Japanese cars for so long, I am loath to mess with success.
In my circle of friends I can think of two people who are not car savvy who had awful experiences with late 90s to mid 2000s VW products. One of them had to lemon law hers and ended up needing dental work from all the teeth grinding the stress caused.
I also have two friends who have put 200k & 300k+ on VW and Audi products. Both are highly mechanically literate and do most the work themselves. One has a early 2000s TDI Jetta and the other a 88 Quattro.
Golf/Jetta/GTI:
Except for diesels (which I’ll explain), there is a real difference between the 1999.5-2005 Mk4 cars (plus 1998-2011 New Beetles) and the 2005.5+ Mk5/Mk6 cars. The former are absolute garbage and best left to a select group of “enthusiasts”; the latter are actually quite reliable, especially equipped with the 2.5 or the 2009+ 2.0T. If I were in the market for a new/used car, a Mk5/Mk6 would be near the top of my list, accepting that it might have a few problems a Corolla wouldn’t – but the driving experience would more than make up for it.
With diesels, the situation is somewhat more complicated. The reliable old 1.9L boat anchor appeared in both Mk4 and Mk5 cars; the Mk5 is a better car overall, but the 1.9L wasn’t so common there. In the context of a diesel Mk4, at least the powertrain would be reliable (can’t say the same about the rest of the car, but if you really want a cheap diesel VW…).
A diesel reappeared in the Mk5 for 2009 and then made it to all Mk6 body styles, except this is a completely different engine. It appeared to have some teething troubles, but (knock on wood), it’s improving…
Passat:
Improving more slowly. Some things became more reliable (i.e. the new 2.0T for 2009), others less so (the mandatory DSG in the 2010). According to TrueDelta, the Chattanooga-built 2012 is off to a shaky start, but with its commonality with the Mk5/Mk6 Jetta/Golf, it might end up quite reliable with time…
Consumer Reports says they still need more repairs than other cars. Buy the April issue or check their web-site.
great writeup. i am skeptical when people say a line of cars are crap but they don’t back it up with specifics. any car can have an isolated problem but repeat issues like yours are unforgivable. i almost bought a used passat wagon. it was beautiful and it drove great. my wife said it felt cramped. i thought she was nuts. i noticed there were a lot more high mileage volvos on ebay than vw’s and it got me thinking. i spent a little more and got a volvo xc70. after reading your article, i’m really glad i did!
Well, my experience of VW products, from the standpoint of friends and family who have owned them, is not positive. But to each his/her own I suppose.
I do find a lot of German car nuts lie about the reliability of their German Masterpieces and secretly sneak off to see Rudy.
Or they’ve drank too much of the Kool-Aid they have in the waiting area and believe the “that is normal” or “we couldn’t find anything wrong”.
You are obviously knowledgeable of the routine, Eric. To be fair, not only VW dealers do this.
No but the German brands in general seem to be the worst in that area. The other thing to consider is that people often have selective memories when it justifies something they want to do.
Great case in point a friend of mine bought a newer car a couple of years ago a 2 year old Accord. I asked him why and what else he had considered. He said he never had a problem with his last Accord so he figured he’d buy another. Since his son was about to get his license he kept the old one for him. About 2 weeks after he got the new car he went to move the other and it wouldn’t start. I happened to come over the next day and he told me about it. So I said lets take a look. I first checked that it wasn’t cranking like a snapped timing belt and it seemed OK. So I moved on to spark knowing that era was known for bad ignitiors, coils and the distributors imploding and that all looked good. At that point he admitted that he had the ignitor replaced just after the warranty expired and then the distributor replaced when it imploded a few years later and there had also been another issue with the distributor. Next it was on to fuel and there was zero pressure in the fuel rail and the pump didn’t do it’s prime run. So I said you’ve got a bad main relay and pulled out that old stand-by ” they all do that”. Lo and behold he suddenly remembered that too had been replaced before and that hey that car had been on the hook 4 times because it left him stranded because of those issues and if this hadn’t happened in his driveway and I insisted that he could do it himself it would have been a 5th trip on the hook in about 150k miles.
I also come from a garage background and I agree that people have a really selective memories about their babies. Cars are often a very emotional issue for their owners, who then tend to “forget” the problems that they have had with them.
The relay thing is very common in Honda cars of the era and easy to fix. In fact I just did one a few days ago. A friend called me telling me his 1991 Civic (with like 300,000 km on it) would not start. I went to the parts store, got the relay, slapped it in and the car fired right up. Fuel pumps almost never die in Hondas, btw.
In fact, when any car comes in with no fuel pressure, it is the first place to look. This was very common in VWs, too.
Having worked in the parts department of a Ford/AMC dealer and a Toyota dealer, I too can vouch for the fact that people have very selective memories about their cars.
It was not uncommon for a service writer to try and get an accurate description of the history of the car, only to look it up and find that many repairs had been already made to the car.
OTOH, I worked for a Toyota dealer in Georgia that would con folks into thinking that the surface rust on exhaust pipes was fatal, bogus oil and chemical additives on cars with less than 10,000 miles and other things that made me ashamed to work for them. I quit about six months after hiring on. It was that bad.
The Ford dealer was famous for the NFF diagnosis, and I was never thrilled about that, either. The parts were marked up considerably higher than other dealerships I was familiar with, at least to retail service customers. I enter dealerships with an entirely different attitude than most folks.
Which is why I’m happy every day my 17 year old Pontiac starts and runs. It’s another day of inexpensive motoring for me. 🙂
What do you mean expensive and un-reliable?
Everyone spends $2500 to fix their air conditioning these days……..
Things weren’t any better by the early 2000s, when I bought my ’00 TDI New Beetle. I made four or five trips to the Dealer under warranty, and a dozen or more over the next five or six years. When the glow plug harness failed and I googled that this was a common problem, it took the service folks (a 1.5 hour drive away, an no loaners, thankyouverymuch) FOUR tries to fix it, despite my having told them the exact problem on the first visit. They replaced everything *but* the harness (on my dime)…
Numerous other VW dealer horror stories to share, and they are main reason I would think very long and hard before acquiring another new VW (even though the TDI Beetle due out this summer would be very tempting).
I, too, can relate. I’m of partly German descent; and I’m of that same generation…when German cars and German engineering were deified in the buff-books. To some extent, it was justified…but only to a point.
And I, too, discovered the joys of dealing with German car dealers and car manufacturers. My first car (that was titled to me, that I picked and paid for) was a four-year old Super Beetle. We all knew Beetles ran forever, right? They cost a lot more used, but dag-nabbit, they’re WORTH it!
Sure. Except that vaunted German engineering didn’t extend to rustrproofing. Not really their fault; no manufacturer had found a cure for car-cancer in those days…but your premium price got you no longevity there.
Then…there was the Dealer Experience. I’ve come to the conclusion that the difference between the Japanese and German brands is, that the latter are superbly-engineered products…sold and serviced by people with the ethics of a grave robber! While the Japanese brands, or their American distributors, understand the value of maintaining a good relationship with customers, the dealers of German brands, upon the close of the sale, transform in their minds, the customer into a gull.
It was true then; it was true later with my Vanagon Westfalia; it was true when Daimler took over Chrysler, including, of course, Chrysler’s residual warranties. Even to my lowly Jeep Wrangler.
Daimler stripped the joint of money; talent; ethics; and with their contemptuous attitude, chased the customer away. By that time I came to see it as the typical German-Car Experience: Somewhat superior product; hyped endlessly; contempt for purchasers who bought the hype.
Back in the Fargo era TTAC had many editorials about what was rotten in the kingdom of MOPAR when Daimler and Cerebus were running the show.
“While the Japanese brands, or their American distributors, understand the value of maintaining a good relationship with customers,”
Huh? I’ve seen plenty of arrogance from Japanese car dealers, WRT to customers after the sale. Particularly in the service department, but that’s where I was working.
I can remember when my brother went to buy his first new car, he was interested in a Civic (this is in 1980), but there was a $1000 ADP charge on the Monroney. Plus something like a $250 tape pinstripe package with some other ridiculous crap listed. I’d forgotten about the waiting list, and for an extra payment to the sales person, you could get moved up on the list… Oh, yeah, excellent customer relations, there.
The Toyota dealer I worked for back in the early 90’s had an “appearance package” (tape pinstripes) applied to all new Camrys on the lot, even the super cheapo ones, which listed about $200 or so (I don’t remember the exact price). The non-negotiable doc fee of $365 (hard to forget that number) was another ‘privlege’ of buying an $8K Tercel and was like having extra sand thrown in the Vaseline while they were screwing you…
Then, when these folks came back for routine service, they were shown all kinds of charts and graphs trying to sell them a whole raft of chemical additives for cars that were still on their factory warranty (that they tried desperately to convert to retail work).
I may have mentioned this earlier, my favorite was the woman who came in with her 3 year old Celica and was told her exhaust system was rusted and “not safe” any longer. This is in Georgia. Semi-arid Georgia. There is no salt on the roads EVER! It doesn’t rain in the summer time. Hello, retail repair! Cha ching!
There was the guy with the Corolla that had some oil stains on his struts. Apparently the struts were leaking. The car was in warranty, but was told the repair was denied because he was “driving the car wrong”… Their exact words… He was told not to go to Midas or other chain repair shops that he originally threatened to do, that if he bought new Toyota struts, any further repairs would be covered under a warranty. Hello, retail repair! Cha ching!
Back when my late mother was still driving, her 2000 Honda Civic was due for an oil change. She would usually show up with my one older brother as he would help her with stuff like that. Once, she decided she didn’t need any help and went to the dealership alone. They hit her with some “maintenance” package that cost her something like several hundred 2004 dollars. I remember reading the invoice after the fact, it amounted to a bunch of inspections and oddball things like lubricating lock plates,etc, piddly crap; along with an oil change, some engine oil additives (sound familiar?) and I think an alignment was tacked on, too. At the time I think the car only had 10K miles on it. That was a lot of cash for what was essentially a 10,000 mile inspection…
It was only a couple of years later she surrendered her keys, but I have never forgiven that Honda service manager and dealership for doing that to a good customer. After that, I insisted that one of us kids would go with her for any work done on her cars, even if I had to drive the six hours east to do it.
Snakes are snakes, no matter who’s sign is on top of the pole…
That’s really not been my experience…my own; and family members.
I’ve been clipped at stealerships many times – Ford outlets; Chevy dealers; VW shops. But the experience at Toyota dealerships, in the last twenty years, has mostly been positive.
One notorious local Cleveland chain, whose name I won’t put here…had been the subject of numerous investigations through the 1970s and 80s for fraudulent or faulty repair work. Their sales desks weren’t greatly loved, either.
But they had a Toy franchise, by the late 1980s. And goaded by my younger brother, my mother bought her first Camry from them in a two-fer deal with my brother’s Celica.
Okay…good deal, anyway. They’ll pay on the other end…I thought.
But then…with about 60,000 miles and five years on the Camry, the starter motor failed. Stripped the pinion. My mom, in her late 60s and living alone, had the thing towed out of the garage and to the suspect dealer.
She came a day later with bags of gold, expecting a whopping repair bill. What she was told, instead…was that a Factory Service Bulletin identified improper installation on Camrys of that run; and Toyota was making all repairs FREE.
Free. Engine pulled; ring gear pressed out and replaced; new ring gear and installation along with new starter. FREE!
And THAT, from a dealer known to steal. Why the change?
Here’s what I think: a Toyota franchise was a hot commodity in those days…and still. So when the Home Office demanded a cleanup; and threatened to LIFT that franchise for not adhering to Corporate Standards…that threat carried weight. It wasn’t like the Toyota brand could be replaced with a Saturn store or another lackluster brand…
So Toyota demanded strict standards, it seemed – and got them.
I haven’t lived in the Cleveland area in about 20 or so years, so I’m having a hard time imagining which one you’re referring to.
I noted earlier that the Ford dealer I worked for was famous for their own shady dealings, at least the parts that I saw. And I too, have had plenty of ‘fun’ with of domestic dealers. I really believe that there’s little the factory can do to errant dealers, due to restrictive franchising laws enacted by each state. If you get a chance google “Bill Heard Chevrolet”, he was a dealer south of Atlanta, what a pile…
Your singular example really doesn’t indicate that TMC USA had anything to do with the way your mother was treated. Truly, I’m glad they honored their commitment, but with foreign cars, the factory has even less to do with the end user experience, and most customer relations are handled by the importer and/or distributor.
Combined with the restrictive franchising agreements and the buddy system of local and state lawmakers, it’s highly unlikely that the factory could do ANYTHING to make the dealer comply with their wishes. Again, using Bill Heard Chevrolet as an example, I’m quite sure if there were a legal way for GM to shut that operation down, they would have done so. I have to believe the way that dealership operated probably ruined the reputation of any other GM dealer for several counties around.
As a more recent example, I’m living in Western Michigan these days. Up until Carmageddon, we had a Chevy dealer hereabouts (Wayland Chevy) that was less than ethical, at a minimum. They were one of the dealers to lose their franchise, not because of the Automotive Task Force, but because of a bad reputation. The official line was a bad economy and lagging sales, but they had a reputation as a credit mill and a hard sell dealership.
Like I said earlier, just because you’ve got a Japanese nameplate on top of the pole, that isn’t a guarantee of ethics. Just like you’re giving me your experiences, I’m relating mine from both the viewpoint of a dealership employee and a consumer. I’ve got way more stuff to tell, but this post is way too long already.
PS: I used to love Ford products, but my experiences as a consumer with Ford and Mercury dealers were nothing but disappointment. I’ve posted on here and other sites that I won’t be likely to look at Ford products again due to the amount of problems I’ve had with them. And that’s across a 20 year span and several states that I’ve lived in during that time. (Crap, I just made the post longer…)
Ah. First the car dealership. I don’t want to get Paul sued…so here’s a clue: A twelve-year-old boy, in the 1960s; local TV spots: “My dad wants to sell YOU…a car NOW!!”
Second, as to your comments: Toyota USA HAD no “commitment” in my mother’s situation. That’s the remarkable thing; the car was two years out of warranty; and already with over 50,000 miles on it.
She didn’t ask for or expect help; and certainly didn’t threaten or suggest legal action was following. It was all initiated by the DEALER.
Singular example? In its extreme, yes. But representative of the Better Way To Sell Cars that the Japanese-brand stores came to represent. The horrid treatment I got at the hands of the Chevy dealer network in 1979 with my Chevette; and again in 1999 from Daimler-Chrysler with my Jeep TJ…that didn’t happen to me at Toyota or Nissan outlets when I owned those respective marques.
I apologize but I must address Mr. Peters comment regarding Quebec and Bill 22.
At the time the law was passed, only 9% of federal government employees were French speaking even though they made up 25% of the population. Many federal government services were not offered in French and most major retailers in Quebec refused to offer services in French with a number of them blatantly displaying “English Only” in their windows.
And yet according to Mr. Peters, the French speaking Canadians are “racist”.
It’s an opinion, you don’t have to agree. But I hope Mr. Peters will be free to continue airing things from his perspective. Any time one does that, there will be disagreements. That is the nature of freedom of speech. If we decide he is a real $#&* then we will just stop reading his posts. I hope though that even though you disagree with his view here, that you can still enjoy his work.
Sure, Max, the systematic destruction of English institutions in Quebec, as well as the official suppression of one of Canada’s official languages in not racist at all.
The part about the federal employees not being able to speak French is mixing apples and oranges. Quebec’s language laws are confined only to Quebec; I have always failed to see how restricting the rights of a minority in Quebec could ever make French language services more available across Canada.
The “most major retailers” comment is complete nonsense and part of the Quebecois victimization Zeitsgeist. You are telling me that if a French speaker entered a store in Quebec the clerk couldn’t speak French? Utter fallacy.
Finally, Quebec’s anti-English laws have been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada; Quebec used the Notwithstanding Clause to implement them.
Utter fallacy indeed. If you say so. Funny then how elderly Quebec-born relatives of mine used to tell how, as kids, they were told to “speak white” on the posh streets of Montreal and how, as adults, as late as the 1960s, they always brought their daughter along with them when they went shopping in fancy Montreal department stores, because she spoke English and, to their shame, they didn’t. Oh well, they must have made the whole thing up.
No offence intended here. What I’m only trying to say here is that, for all their flaws, Quebec language laws didn’t come out of the blue either. They were adopted for some reasons. And thirty + years on, whatever one may think personally of Canadian language legislation (both federal and provincial), as a whole it seems to be working pretty well. Belgians and quite a few others would kill for a set of laws like that. Canada hasn’t broken up, it’s a great country to live in, and the train of Quebec sovereignty is pretty much gone. I’m quite happy that both my French- and English-Canadian relatives in Montreal and Vancouver are part of the same country, and, so are they.
There! It was good to have that off my chest. Now let’s take a look at these Jettas. Kind regards. O.
My memories must have been off kilter as well, because I can recall living in the Saguenay at the time, and having complete strangers coming up to us in the mall, telling us to speak French instead of English when we were just talking amongst ourselves. Our whole town cleared out it’s English folks within five years, and joined the exodus down the 401. Montreal ceded it’s position as top Canadian city for business at that time, and all of the potential growth ended up somewhere around Toronto. I think that it could have been a win-win situation if played a little more fairly, but don’t kid yourself, the flames are going to be fanned again when some populist politician gets in and whips up sentiment again. My fondest childhood memory was receiving a letter from Quebec government stating that I’ve been granted the priviledge of attending English school in the province, instead of being forced to switch to French…the letter being received at our new residence somewhere in Ontario. Tres triste.
I do agree with you on the one point. I enjoy my French and English relatives on their own turf, but really feel that the Jetta would have benefitted from a “broughamization” process, or maybe a nice set of fins.
Tres triste indeed!
Regarding the Jettas, I think part of their appeal comes precisely from their being as far away from anything Brougham as cars get. Fact is, people around here (ie. Luxembourg) are crazy about very, very serious looking Polos, Golfs and Passats. And they HAVE to be black or dark grey, or so it seems (driving a blue & white 1976 De Ville on weekends I feel like a space alien – I love it!).
Beats me. These may not bad cars, but come on, give me a Honda anytime. I enjoyed Ken’s Jetta story a lot, especially the part about VW dealers looking at you as if you were a cockroach if you tell them that something’s wrong with your car. Sounds depressingly familiar on this side of the pond as well! The most arrogant ones over here are supposed to be the Audi dealers, though. Must have something to do with the horrendous price of Audi parts. Kind of a consolation when your Passat breaks down, maybe.
NB. “Len’s Jetta story”, not “Ken’s”. I’m sorry. I knew there was something wrong with that dry Martini.
I find this annoying as well. For those who don’t speak French, the sign in the photo says “All of Quebec is marching – to live in French”. Not an unreasonable sentiment in a province where the great majority was/is French-speaking. Many Quebecers feel that there was racism on the part of the (economically dominant) English-speaking minority towards the French-speaking majority.
CC isn’t the place for political discussions, and I’d like to see us all keep politics out of our posts.
language is not racism. maybe culture…
I bought a 74 VW Dasher brand new and soon discovered that winter driving was risky because the carb kept freezing up. I learned to carry a 12 pack of dry gas in the trunk. Solved that problem. in 1977 I was rear ended by a Ford F-150 that was going 35 and I was stopped in traffic. Dasher totaled, problem solved. Then when my 16 year old daughter was ready to drive I studied crash reports. The VW Golf did very well so I bought an 85 Golf with 30,000 miles on it figuring it would keep her safe. Right away I noticed that for every 10 miles I drove the odometer only registered 5! In a way that was kind of cool. Had the car 6 months, daughter got her license to drive. On her first solo drive with a girl friend she made a left turn in front of a speeding Camaro. Golf and Camaro both were totaled but she and her girl friend had absolutely no injuries! Her aunt in back seat was not belted in and wasn’t so lucky but she recovered. The VW did its job so I have to say thank you VW. I did not buy another one though. Figuring she had learned her lesson I bought her an 81 Toyota Celica that served her well through college and in the 24 years since then she has never had an accident.
Your experience followed mine by just one year. For my first new car, it was a black 1985 GTI. You are right – these were expensive. My car stickered at a bit over $12K in 1985. This was Crown Victoria money at that time. Mine was a U.S. built car, and I actually did a bit better than you in quality.
As you say, the driving experience was superb. I topped the car out at 114 mph once for several miles, and it felt just as solid and secure as it did at 60. But over the course of two years, I amassed quite a service folder. My dealer in Indianapolis was actually pretty tolerable. Multiple fuel injection and tire wear/vibration issues. My only un-fixable issue was a water leak in the body that resulted in soaked rear floor carpet after every rain.
After 2 years, I had tired of the car payment and started looking for a sweet older ride that would be half hobby and half transportation. When I found the 66 Fury III with 20K on the clock, I was back to my Mopar roots. I sold the GTI, paid off the loan, and never looked back. Mine cost me about $6k over 2 years between loan interest and depreciation, and my benchmark ever since has been that if you can drive for cheaper than $3k/yr, you are doing OK.
My sister bought an 86 diesel Golf to replace her 81 diesel Rabbit. After a year, she decided that the combination of no a/c and two little kids was a mistake, and she traded it for an 87 gas Jetta which she drove for a couple of years until the diesels came back. It must have treated her tolerably well, as she has owned several VWs since.
Good writing Len. Ah the VW’s, how we “love” them. At least they are an endless source for amateur auto writers to opine upon their maladies.
It is all made up, Micheal. We all know German Cars are the Pinnacle of Everything that Drives.
From the urban dictionary
Fahrvergnügen
American translation for above German phrase, meaning to-push-ones-car. Especially a Volkswagen.
The other common definition is: I got screwed.
Let us not leave the northern brothers out of this, Eric. Canadian VW owners get screwed as a matter of course, too.
I guess my experience with 11 VW’s over the years has been much better than most. Starting with Beetles… a ’59 and a ’68, a ’70 Van, a ’75 Scirocco, two diesel Rabbits (’79 and ’80), a Fox 4-door and a Fox 2-door wagon (both ’88), and three Passats (’91 sedan, ’91 wagon and ’99 sedan).
The only one that had repeated problems was the Scirocco. It was one of the very first imported to Canada (I’m in Vancouver), and had served the first few months of its life as a demo. Nice car to drive but it did have some ongoing carburetion issues (this was the year before injection). Nonetheless it stayed in the family for 150K km and it didn’t owe us anything when we sold it.
The others all performed admirably with few problems. I did have heater core replacements on several of the water-cooled cars… that did seem to be a weak link. The ’80 diesel Rabbit lasted for about 350K km in my ownership, the Passat wagon was with us til 285K… both went on to live longer lives with new owners.
All the cars were German-made except the Foxes, which were designed and built in Brazil. I would say that the Fox sedan counts as the best cheap car I’ve ever owned… solid, sporty and fun. Bought it three years old for $6500, drove it three years and 100K km, and sold it for $4800. During that time it needed only scheduled service, tires and a battery.
There are some good VW dealers out there (I found the one in Surrey was excellent), but there were certainly dealers I avoided.
Still driving German cars… over the past decade there’s been one Audi A4 and two Porsche Caymans. No regrets about any of them.
Peekay, I am happy your German Car experience has been good. However, since you have not owned another brand, I can’t see how a comparison would be good. You see, in my experience, German car owners are used to fixing things. Every VW I have had always had little fixes happening here an there, a window regulator, a door handle, a short circuit. It is part of the experience. I thought it was normal, too.
Then I got my 1990 Accord. I had that car for four years; not a single issue came up. I serviced it and put gas in it. That was it; no other trouble, nada, zilch.
I bought my present car, a 2000 Acura TL, two years ago. It had 66,000 km on it and now it has 90,000 km. Not a single issue has come up. Nothing. All I have done is change the oil twice a year and rotate the tires once. The car is perfect. I would imagine your A4 and Caymans were (and are) under factory warranty. Owning a Porshce out of warranty is not a financially wise decision. A friend had the clutch done on is Boxter to the tune of $4500; he got rid of the car right after that!
I want any owner of a twelve year old German car tell me that have driven two years without a single issue.
I have owned other brands… a Ford Falcon, a Volvo, two Alfas, three Jeeps, a Chevy Cavalier and a Subaru Outback.
I know most of these brands are not known for stellar reliability, but strangely enough the one I had the most problems with was the Subaru.
Yes, I agree Japanese cars in general have fewer reliability issues than European cars… I certainly won’t argue that point.
Subarus were famous for head gasket issues. However, their owners are exceptionally loyal to their cars, much like many VW owners.
I once had a 1987 Honda CRX Si, circa 1995 to 1998, that was the Worst Car I’ve Ever Owned. I bought it because I was going to school at 40 miles from home and didn’t want to put the miles on my 1968 Galaxie 500 nor afford the gas. Said CRX, however, nickel and dimed me on just about everything that possibly could go wrong with it despite my religious maintenance and purchasing of all Honda-branded parts.
I also bought it because everyone said how reliable Hondas were. It was taken care of in a manner that included every service receipt, and I even spoke to the mechanic who they took it to. I tried said mechanic a couple times, once who is popular locally in the Honda circles, and said mechanic’s favorite phrase was “this is common for these Hondas”.
What’s funny about the whole ordeal is that I ended up driving other cars more than I drove the CRX, because it was always in the shop. Always something weird, and always something infuriating.
In contrast, at the time I had a good friend who had a VW Fox. Said friend was known among us as the destroyer of cars, he was one who ran them flat-out acclerating or braking with never a hint of maintenance. That damn Fox always ran, and never once had a problem over four years of his rampant abuse. By rampant, I’m not kidding, this guy is notorious even today for going through a vehicle every 12-18 months. He even managed to kill a cherry Chevy 1500 with a 4.3 and a manual transmission. Yet the Fox? Nope. He sold it for what he paid for it.
So there are bad examples of everything. I would say I’d never own another Honda after that horrendous CRX, but my sister – after killing a gorgeous ’86 300ZX and almost killing a gorgeous ’93 MX-6 – bought a ’98 Accord LX sedan six years ago. At the time it already had 180k on the clock, to this day sis has added a hair over another 100k to it. All without any maintenance except for when Dad drives it and changes the oil once a year because he can’t fathom what goes through her head. Dad doesn’t spring for synthetic either, just plain old Valvoline. Every 20,000 miles.
Driving her Accord, her being the second most notorious car killer we know, you’d never know it. WIth 280k miles on the clock, it drives better than my wife’s religiously maintained ’99 loaded-to-the-gills Grand Voyager (meaning I maintain it, wife would let it grenade). From what I recall, the only time it’s been in the shop is to fix the hood release, somehow sis popped the hood and never put it all the way down so the latch mechanism was messed up. She drove it like that for a year before Dad had enough and got it fixed for her. My wife’s van? Don’t ask.
I’ve also known VW’s owned by folks who are religious about maintenance and find how terrible they are. I also have known a couple trouble-prone Hondas. I really don’t know what the story is there, but I think each have bad examples.
Everybody gets a lemon now and again but in this case, since it was a CRX Si, it may have had the bark beat off it before you got it, especially since it was eight years old when you got it.
What was the mileage when you got it? Did you have complete service records? How many owners? Any accidents?
Your Accord story resonates. They are great cars but they tend to live easier lives that any CRX or youthful male driven Civic.
It was actually babied, as far as I can tell, the original owner was a hairdresser who thought the Si was a “combination of cute and cool” and “had to have one fully loaded” so she ordered it with every checkbox – literally. It had about 75k on it, and every record of any service ever done to it. When I was looking at it she rode with me on the test drive because, as she stated, her husband doesn’t get to drive it. To this day I honestly believe she babied the thing. She replaced it with a decked out ’95 EX and replaced that with a more current Si – I know because over the years I’ve seen both cars parked in front of the beauty salon with her personalized plates.
Anyway I must have fixed everything that ever went wrong with them. I sold it at 130k miles to a friend who insisted against my full advice that he had to have it. He had it for another five years and re-replaced everything I had.
All I can think is that day in the factory it must have been free Asahi day. My sister’s car proves that.
Well there were no boxes to check back then… you either got an Si or you didnt, no options on Hondas, only levels. They had dealer accessories she could buy, but really nothing beyond floormats and mudflaps.
I cannot imagine what happened to your car before you got it, but it had to be abused. In my experience, just because someone babies thier car doesnt mean they maintained it or didnt cause something catastrophic to happen. All I know is that from 1986 to 1991 my freinds and I all drove some form of Civic or CRX Si (back when they made awesome drivers cars) and we literally beat the pi$$ out of those things. I am talking about no less than a dozen pre-ricers with rich parents and no consideration to regular maintenance and no one killed a Honda. Mine was the worst one (86 Civic Si with 110k on it when I got it) and it still lasted until it was wrecked. Funny, I also got a 95 EX and then almost got 99 Si but went with a 99 GTI instead. Looking back I should have gotten the Si, that was the last really great one.
This article revives my PTSD (2006 Passat). By the time the lease was up, we were ready to firebomb Wolfsburg and strangle our dealer’s service department.
Our car was obviously quite recent, and it makes me wonder about VW’s current push to become the next Toyota. They’ve survived this far (at least in the US) by making products with enough Fahrvergnügen to lure in certain customers. But what happens when their latest buyers–who basically just want a bit of prestige for Corolla money–encounter their dealership’s venomous service department?
They are hardly Corolla money these days and never really were. When I bought my Jetta for $10,400 a nice Corolla was running $7995. These days the spread is similar. A Jetta 2 point slow will still cost more than a comparable Corolla, have less power, kit and is made in Mexico.
I completely resonate with your desire to firebomb and strangle. They intervening years have helped me.
A VW dealer in Chicago accused my friend, who was having electrical problems, of rewiring his new ’67 convertible! Isn’t that the first thing any right-thinking individual does with a new car?
Then there was the dealer in Madrid, Spain that said that he would have to send our failed window crank of our new Westfalia camper to Germany “for analysis” since he thought we may have abused the part. Again, one of my favorite pastimes, window crank abuse.
Just goes to prove that VW dealers are assbags the world over.
I drove a ’78 Rabbit for 16 years and 135k miles but I don’t think that there ever elapsed a two week period when everything was right. It ate alternators and mufflers. The front suspension fed road shocks directly into the cowl which would pop the radio out on bumpy roads. I finally just left the damn thing out. The brakes were garbage. Once, on a trip through Alberta, I noticed that at 80 mph that the tops of the doors would suck away from the body to extent that you could see daylight. I also noticed in western Canada the ride of choice seemed to be pickup trucks which were driven at about 100 mph and blew me in the weeds.
But I agree with Canucklehead. I just ceased an eight year relationship with a Honda Odyssey on which I only replaced the battery, two tires, and never once returned the car to the dealer for service. But I could feel the torque converter vibrating (a prelude, haha, to expensive transmission repair) so, with 51,000 miles on the ticker I traded it in on a 2012 Impreza. I don’t anticipate any trips to the dealer for repair. This will probably be the last new car that I buy.
But if you are a fan of violent anal intercourse, try owning an Audi.
thanks for that final image, Kevin.
I do want to thank you for jarring my memory loose thou– the radio unit on my Rabbit L popped out incessantly and ate alternators like tick tacks. ugh.
I head the “send the part to the factory” line a few times, myself!
I replaced many electrical parts in my 1978 Rabbit, or more accurately fixed them. Starters on diesels were a real pain, as were alternators. New brushes and a good cleaning would get them going again.
Schadenfreunde is the only Teutonic emotion I have about daily-driver German cars. Have been proactive about steering friends away from them. Haven’t been proven wrong yet. (And I have similar feelings about modern Mopars, fwiw.)
People sneer at Camrollas but I can’t blame anyone for taking the grief-free approach to motoring. Maybe look at a Mazda if you think you want a VW.
No one metioned the automatic transmision problems with acura, honda, ( they do not have a filter) and bent valves when timing belts break. and honda ,acura, RUST, just saying.Toyota frozen park brake because the actuating lever is on the outside of the drum.draged the rear of my truck to work many daysdue to this problem . and wiprd out the front axle seals every year due to ice build up on them . no vehicle is perfect . honda acura and toyota owner.
All cars have issues, Steve, especially if you do not maintain them. Timing belts and fluid changes are regular maintenance on any car.
I can also say that all of the Japanese cars I have owned have given excellent service and that opinion is well reinforced by the empirical date I can access.
This is, however, often a complicated issue based on emotion and nationalism. Since Canada has no native auto industry I am ambivalent of the origin of the maker.
Canada’s (and the US’s) auto industry is really a bi-country one as it exists on the border (Detroit-Windsor). So, yes, Canada does have a native auto industry. It just so happens that they are the same as those in the US due to the location. One could really call it the Michigan-Ontario auto industry.
Steve,
I mentioned that the reason that I got rid of my 2004 Odyssey was for its well-know reputation for puking transmissions right around 50,000 miles.
Other than that, it was a problem-free vehicle and a great long-distance cruiser.
They had regular sevice service.
James VW in Hot Springs, Arkansas failed to diagnose a new 80 Rabbit that used water. It didn’t leak it, didn’t boil over, just the water level in the radiator went down. I would add premixed antifreeze when it cooled down. Dad sold it to a co-worker after 10 years and 100,000 miles of crappiness. He was mechanically astute and rebuilt the engine and told Dad that some bolts were missing from the head and that he could tell from the head gasket that antifreeze was making it’s way to some of the combustion chambers. I guess the intake stroke was sucking water in past the gasket. A simple compression and pressure test would have diagnosed that. The exhaust manifold leaked and over, the dealer sucked at fixing that, it had to be rewelded over and over.
I thought about the new lower priced Jettas that VW released this year, them remembered my folk’s experiences. Never. Never. Never buy a VW.
I have been tempted a couple of times. Two years ago, I drove a Golf five door automatic and yes, it drove beautifully. However, the dealer, true to VW fashion, was a total scumbag: on top of the already absurd $1795 freight and PDI, he added a $695 “clean up charge” on the total. I flatly refused to pay it and he flatly refused to back down. My memories of VW came flooding back and I walked. Smart move.
i really think it must be something about maintenance and dealership left of the atlantic? not all cars are created equal and maybe they just need different handling and care than is commonplace in the US/CDN?
in europe, second generation golfs and jettas are considered bullet proof (not 3rd and 4th, tho) and there must be a point to it as there are still plenty on the streets. i had 2 ’79 dashers/passats and they where sturdy, super reliable workhorses needing nothing but gas even with 250k on the clock.
Europe is rather known for its dearth of Japanese cars and therefore the reliability of said cars cannot be used in comparison to German cars. Yes, there may be plenty of Gen II Golf’s and Jettas there because everybody knew their problems and could easily fix them. The cars were basically quite simple.
As for Gen II Golfs and Jettas here, they are long gone. We do have loads of old Toyotas and Hondas, though.
When we were car shopping in 2002, we checked out a Jetta Wagon. My wife uses a simple legroom check: she sits behind me (and my 6-2 frame) and if she fits, it passes. We skipped the VW. The clueless salescreep thought he stood a chance even though my wife made her statement: “I need to get out of this seat, NOW!”. Dodged that bullet.
Had a Focus ZX5 for 18 months before moving to snow country. Not bad, though we only put 8K miles on it.
My VWs (2 beetles, one Rabbit) never saw dealership “service”, but they had their issues. Never saw a window pane lose hold of the window regulator before. Fortunately, I caught it before it self-destructed. Electrically, the Rabbit was in the same class as a mid-70’s Lancia a co-worker had. Better than Britcars, but still bad.
I always liked the styling of the Mk2, especially with the styled steel wheels in the fifth picture down or Silverstone alloys.
My uncle had an ’88 Jetta with the 1.8L/5-speed. It turned out to be quite reliable for 300,000 or so miles.
You can tell the 1985-1987 cars apart from the 1988-1992 cars by the location of the rear VW emblem (on the 1985-1987, it is on the left and has the word “VOLKSWAGEN”; on the 1988-1992, it is centered as in the first picture). The windows and headlights were also changed for 1988.
VW’s are like a sailboat, they can always use something. I have a 1992 tdi jetta with 340 000kms on it, it’s had lots of work new cyl head rear struts starter and a switch or 2. If you don’t mind doing the work the parts are quite reasonable for the most part as they are still building them in China ($4 for a relay that used to be $40 when Siemens made it). If you are not prepared to work on them and have to take them in to the dealership then look out. I find mine have always gotten me home which is more than I can say for my rice-burners or Detroit iron. And with today’s gas prices 800-1000kms on 50 liters it’s hard to get much better fuel economy. I find it’s funny that if they are such crap why are there so many of them still on the roads but not too many Hyundai’s, chevettes or other small domestic cars left on the road….
Hearing all the German car bashing– much deserved– reminds me of the psychological theory of “selective perception”: you see what you want to see. I always heard what wonderful cars BMW made, and my folks owned several 60’s era Beemers, so, foolishly, I assumed the new Bavarian wondercar would be a well built machine… BIG mistake. I told my son he could replace his Ford with a 328i… Well, after dozens of repairs, there has been one good result: he will NEVER own another German car again!
Ah yes, another VW article, and another round of VW horror stories from back in the day. Nice to see that CC isn’t any different TTAC.
Do any of you have any stories of recent VW products?? Most of you with the horror stories had a VW 20+ yrs ago, and base your opinions on that… NEVER again to shop VW. A 1978 Dodge was junk, so were 1978 Fords, etc. They all had problems, People buy them today regardless of how they were in the 70s and 80s. VWs were worse because of the horrendous dealers and the fact that NAPA didnt carry VW parts so you didnt have much of a choice where to go, combined with the fact that were cheaper cars than other Euro brands, so people didnt expect to have problems like BMW or Mercedes. As much as I hate VW dealers, honestly they weren’t any worse than any other specialty Euro mechanic shop from that era, the Euro brands were attempting to market on prestige to the wealthy, and yes, they seemed to want to rip off the customers. Unfortunately VW customers were not the typical Euro buyer.
I will not argue that Honda and Toyota were and still are more reliable. They are. But the cars you replaced your VWs with are souless appliances. If you are happy driving them, fine, some people will trade some driving fun for more reliability or less maintenance. Tell me which equivilent Japanese car drives as well as a new comparable (new car, same price range) VW?
My 2012 Impreza is far from souless. It is one of the best handling cars I have ever had. I far prefer it to my coworker’s 2012 Jetta GLI. Plus it cost five grand less.
My Fit was certainly not soulless, the thing went like snot and cornered like a go-kart.
My Acura is also a great car to drive. Competent, high handling limits, impeccably well made.
The US-China Jetta we are getting now is hardly inspirational. Can you say, “torsion beam?” Can you say, “two point slow?”
When I hear German car lovers doing the “joy to driving” thing, it is usually because they haven’t driven anything else.
The Fit is OK, but which VW are you comparing it to? The Golf is more expensive and bigger, faster and better handling, even with the 2.5. Snot is relative you know. I am pretty sure your Fit has a torsion beam suspension too, seems to work ok there. The GLI doesnt have it anyway, and even the 2 point slow is more fun to drive than a Civic. The Civic Si is OK, but doesnt have the soul it used to have.
Your Acura is a decent car, but its also a $45k car. And Acura ruined it in 2009 with that goofy beak, and continues to offer the “sport” model without desirable options unless you get the automatic trans. IF you can even find a stick.
I have driven plenty of cars, from all countries. I am not ONLY for VW. But I hate how biased people are about VW based on information from the 70s and 80s. If they are so bad now why do you think they can hoodwink so many people into buying them year after year? You think EVERYONE who drives a VW is just so dumb they love punishment? Do you think it is to impress people with a midlevel Euro brand thats known for having reliability issues?
If it is a WRX, then the only car that is truly equal from VW was the R32, and they cost even more than the WRX. But its a good example, I will give you that! I do love the WRX, especially the newest ones with the STI widebody treatment. But a Subaru isn’t really a paragon of reliability, if anything the same people who bash on VW also bash on Subies.
A standard Impreza? I am glad you like it, but its not really a drivers car, especially the new ones. A GLI will mop up the floor with it in anything but snow or hard rain.
This is my third Subaru. No problems with the first two.
I like all-weather drivability more than the thought that I can beat out the guy next to me at stoplights. I have no trouble getting up my steep driveway with six inches of snow on the ground. The standard Impreza handles very flat and the steering is very direct and communicative. I’m quite happy with it. At least I don’t have to put up with abusive VW dealers.
And some commenters on here would think it was a miracle that you had 3 good Subies… they are like the VW of Japanese cars, with people either bashing them or loving them.
I am not saying they are not reliable, just that they get a lot of bad press, just like VW. Yet that didnt prevent you from buying one, because you like the driving experience, and a Subie provides something that almost no other manufacturer offers… AWD security in a compact, fairly inexpensive package.
Funny what you say about the dealers though, around here most Subaru dealers are also VW dealers! You are right though, VW dealers almost all suck.
And while I understand that you value the secure feel of the AWD over the actual performance, that doesnt make it a “drivers car”. Thats the same thing as someone who values the appliance-like reliability of thier Corolla over performance. It isnt a bad thing, just a doesn’t prove any point about a Impreza being a better drivers car than a GLI. It isnt about stoplight performance, its the entire feel of the car. My 2-point-slow 1999 GTI (non turbo, only offered that year), was slow as crap, but so very satisfying to drive on my curvy PG-county commute every day.
@mnm4ever: “Do any of you have any stories of recent VW products?? Most of you with the horror stories had a VW 20+ yrs ago, and base your opinions on that… ”
You could say the same thing about any domestic products on many of these sites, too.
Opinions are like bellybuttons, you know the rest.
Just because some one has had a great Ford, Honda or Hyundai, will not necessarily influence me to buy one.
I’ll judge for myself, thanks.
If you read enough of these kinds of sites, you see the same lines of reasoning over and over again. We are creatures of habit.
Modern day VWs have their problems too, google “VW TSI issues” and you’ll know – in Europe, older Volkswagens are exactly known for their reliability, but it most be noted these refer to the pre-fuel injection era which only fully started around 1990 over here, VW’s transition to it didn’t go very smoothly. Still, wholly different thing than what is remembered here.
There must be one major difference though: where in NA VWs are in a certain premium foreign brand niche market, in Europe, Volkswagens are as mainstream as it gets, most sold marque for quite a few consecutive years. Even though they’re quite expensive in here, too, I guess expectations are simply lower, more problems are sort of acceptable. And so is equally bad dealership treatment, apparently.
We’re on the long road to replacing my wife’s vehicle. As part of it I kept my mind open and tried a Passat along with a Sonata Turbo and Subaru Outback. I expected the Fun Factor of the cars to be along those lines.
Boy I was wrong.
First, by far, was the Outback. I have no idea why, but that big stupid wagon was a blast to drive. It was the slowest of them, but it also just had something about it that made me want to play.
Second, Sonata Turbo. Because boy howdy that hyperactive turbo four has some push to it. Beyond that? No thanks, but still fast.
Distant third? Passat. I tried both the V6 and 170hp four model, both failed to even begin to ignite my soul. They felt.. distinctly not german. And I drove the 3.5 first – after having just left the Hyundai dealership following a drive of the base Sonata (to compare to the Turbo).
It’s also worth noting that the Passat was (significantly) the most expensive of the bunch.
Labelling Quebec as ‘racist’ is not a very thoughtful statement. And as for references to Canada as ‘Soviet Canuckistan’, these days I think it’s edging closer to the ‘Fourth Reich’.
I welcome your posts about cars, but please let’s keep politics out of CC.
Sorry about that. Specifically limiting the free expression of a large minority is not racist, nor is destroying their institution. We don’t even talk about the right to an education in either official language.
I stand corrected.
Well, I drive a Canadian-built car.
1995 Z28, built in Quebec.
No real issues for it’s age.
The plant closed when GM got out of F-bodies and the union contract came up for renewal, true?
Reading this reinforces my decision to never, ever, buy a new car. But then, I am able to do most of my repairs. I few years ago I thought about buying a used Jetta but a little internet research showed a disproportionately large number of VW horror stories. I’ve had pretty good luck with Subarus but they too have their foibles (can you say head gaskets)?
I agree that newer VWs are junk but I’ve had two of these mk2 Jettas and both have been outstanding cars. I’m now driving a 1985 I recently got from my mom. She bought the car in 2007 and with very minimal maintence (the car is 25 years old) it has been very reliable. As reliable as friend’s oh so perfect Japanese cars.
My previous 1988 was awesome as well, with 344k on it when I sold it, which I shouldn’t have done because the BMW that replaced it was a disaster.
The dealer’s suck. Find a good independent garage and it will be much better.
I’ve got to admit that my ex-wife’s 1989 VW Cabriolet didn’t need very many repairs at all and we had that until it had about 180,000mi on it.
It did have one problem. In 2001 she discovered that if it got hot soaked after about a 40min drive, then shut off, it would not restart. The 1st dealer kept putting in $400 starter motors (2 or 3) and some kind of wiring/relay attempts at fixing it. The problem never would go away.
I changed dealer and on a day off, I took the car out for a 30min drive, then stopped at the dealer to see if it would restart. it did, and I took it out for another drive. I did this about 5 times until the hot start problem happened in front of the dealer’s service guy. He determined that it was really the starter.
I said, “Okay, I’ll put in a new starter but it has got to be a brand-new one, not a rebuilt.” The dealer told me that at this point, there were no new starters in the supply chain.
The best I could figure is that the starter developed a fault when it was heat-soaked. Unfortunately, it worked fine when it was cool. My guess is that when they rebuilt the starter motors, they never checked them hot (probably didn’t have any way to check them hot).
I had to tell my wife that she had to check her gas every morning and buy gas on the way out rather than on her way back.