It’s 9 PM, Thursday evening. I just got in from my walk and some blackberry picking. And I see there’s absolutely nothing scheduled for Friday. Scramble, and stay up late? No, not doing that anymore. I’m technically semi-retired at CC now. So instead, I’ll just show you what I’ve been doing instead of writing. And if there’s time, I’ll throw up some Outtakes of some recent finds.
This was the storage shed at Jackson, my cluster of eight rentals. It was probably built in the 40s or 50s, and I had to cut off the left third of it because it sat across a new lot line when I subdivided these two lots into seven lots, and then moved old houses in. I had noticed termite detritus from the get-go, as well as some rot. The flat roof started failing some years back, and I thanks to my years of neglecting my properties in order to blog like a maniac, the leaks became very serious in the past some years.
I used it to store extra appliances, paint, extra doors and all kinds of stuff that one tends to collect after a project ends. Oh, I’ll use that someday. No, I won’t, because it’s a lot easier to just run to the store than burrow into the bowels of a festering mess.
Anyway, I was thinking of emptying it and fixing it up and putting a new roof on it. The emptying alone was quite a chore. And then I started to see what I was really dealing with. Oh my.
This side wall got pulled off first, even before I emptied the shed, as I was still thinking of repair. Can’t see it well here, but most of that wall has rot, and very severe rot around the window. The header holding up a main beam was barely there anymore.
And this was the back wall, which I knew was in bad shape. The area over and around the window was severely rotted, and the roof decking (2×8 tongue and groove) was rotten and sagging badly.
The doubled 2×10 beams had termite powder falling out. At this stage, I knew the whole roof had to go.
I still had the thought that I could salvage the two remaining walls, including the far one, which was neew in 1997 when I cut off that wall.
It was rotting too. I had thrown that wall up in a hurry, and the flat roof’s water found its way into the plywood siding.
In more places than one.
And the plywood was damaged all along the lower edge, because I had failed to flash it over the widely-protruding slab where it had been cut rudely. I knew then I was just prolonging the inevitable anyway.
So this is what was left a couple of days ago. The old Ford hauled it all off; three loads to the wood recycling center, one to the dump, and one to our big re-use store, where the doors, windows, furnace, and other stuff can finally be put to use. That 2×8 T&G roof decking was quite the stuff; where it wasn’t rotten it was beautiful old-growth fir, but it had asphalt adhered to one side from the roof, and I had to cut it into fairly short sections to get it down solo and load it.
And I quickly started cutting it from below, with a ladder, after an incredibly stupid attempt at doing from above sent me down to the floor as if a trap door had suddenly been opened. Fortunately I was ok, except for some impressive scrapes and a very colorful bruise.
Which bring us to today; this is how it looked at lunch time, after all the sills were bolted down, with anchor bolts epoxied into the concrete. And by 6;30, I had the first section of wall laid out and nailed, ready for sheathing and to be tilted up. It’s going to have a proper sloped metal roof this time.
I have new plans for this “shed”; I’ll get to that another time.
It looks like it’s going to be a while before I get to the van’s conversion. Well, actually, the Euro-style windows, the first thing on the agenda, are held up and won’t be arriving until August now. In the meanwhile, I’ve come to love it as a superb hauler for my work. I have all my tools in the forward area, and there’s massive space for hauling lumber, sheathing, etc.. Its load floor is a full 12′ long, and 14′ boards fit perfectly between the front seats. I don’t have to move tools anymore, as they’re locked in the van at night. And I’m getting good at even the smallest parking lots; it has an incredibly tight turning circle. The lack of any side windows is a bit disconcerting in some maneuvers, but a big white van has a certain Moses effect: it parts the waters of traffic.
I’ll show you some more when it’s framed in and roofed.
Well done Paul – glad you didn’t have to re-pour the slab.
Visions of two ProMasters in one driveway: number one used as an all-round workhorse, an identical -and slightly younger- number two to be converted into a camper van.
Good work!
Haha, my first thought too!
I was thinking of a self contained camper interior that could be slid into the ProMaster when it’s time for a trip.
Brilliant! A slide in-slide out camper van kit on flush-mounted tracks.
Well, I am designing it so that I can still haul some stuff with the camper cabinets in place. The area in front, near the sliding door, will be roomy enough to haul/stash my tools, and long boards & pipes will fit in the aisle in the middle. But no room for flat sheet goods. I’ll still have my truck for that, and dump runs. But yes, it is making me see it more as a multi-purpose vehicle.
Best part about working out of a camper is you have a comfy place to take a rest!
Good luck with your project! Thanks for all you do for CC. So, you needed to take a break for personal matters? Don’t be fooled! This is not a vacation. Enjoy the day and best wishes for you to work safely.
Seeing the condition of your shed being mostly decent on the outside yet having so many surprises lurking beneath has me concerned about the shed behind my house. While I know your solution is what mine will have to be, I’m naively optimistic.
My hope is to spend some time this weekend helping to alleviate a thin schedule. The intention had been sooner, but some highly profound events at work have kept me busy. I do have a CC that is 98% complete with way too many others started in my draft folder.
Johannes has an interesting thought – might a second ProMaster be in your future?
I’m the same, Jason. A lot of drafts on my computer. Although I don’t have anything close to 98% complete.
I cleared my schedule this weekend and while I wish I could spend it writing CCs – I have so many ideas and the aforementioned drafts – I have to write two job applications as my contract/secondment role is coming to a close and I would like to stay in it!
There’s an old adage about not knowing what you’re getting into, I think the shed falls into that category.
Flat roofs can spell trouble in New Mexico where we get fairly little rain (except during the monsoon that’s happening right now) I can’t imagine trying to maintain a flat roof in Oregon where the rain is much more frequent.
Excellent. Glad you’re enjoying the pre-reno ProMaster, and glad you didn’t get hurt too badly in your fall.
Paul, these building updates are among my favorites, a fascinating glimpse through a door I’ve never really entered myself.
+1!!! Glad it was just a little bumps/bruises. I enjoy the building features too. I don’t know of too many homeowners who have such well developed building skills, and its definitely an eye opener on a car site. Guess when youre a landlord, it comes with the territory.
I will echo DougD – I love these occasional construction project posts. I guess the shed restoration has morphed into more of a restomod. 🙂
I wondered about that flat roof in wet Oregon. And I presume that there will be some intensive termite treatment around that slab?
We don’t hardly ever have ground-dwelling termites here. They fly to new locations. Termites are generally not much of a problem here. But this shed was a tasty treat.
I have a small barn roof style 8×8 shed in our back yard I built from a kit purchased at 84 Lumber almost 25 years ago, right after we came to Ohio.
I need to take it down and either re-skin it or build another, as the flooring had had to have portions replaced, as well as the sheathing is beginning to rot. One thing: the roof is still great.
Our shed is placed on 4x4s, but has held up pretty well, considering.
Maybe next year…
I’m surprised that someone actually built a flat roof shed in your part of the country. I’m not a fan of flat roof anything, but I suppose it was the cheapest way to go for whoever built it.
I’m sure whatever goes up in its place will be a great improvement! Waiting to see…
It’s a “The Other Side of the Curbside” Classic!
The pics of the rot give me the heebee jeebees, seen enough of that on my own place. Sometimes it truly is better (faster and less expensive) to start from scratch.
Paul: I feel ypou! I am in the process of replacing rotted wood/siding on my 24×32 garage/storage shed/etc.! Scraping old paint, and sanding, prior to pressure washing, so I can primer/paint the whole thing! Remember the good old days, when wood didn’t require primer first (or is that just a figment of my imagination?) At any rate, I’ve already had the re-roofing done, I subbed that job out, as my knee won’t allow transport of heavy shingles! Nowadays, I employ “young” backs as needed. In the words of a movie icon: “A man’s got to know his limitations!” Good luck on your project!! 🙂
Actually, priming has been around a long time. In fact, it’s going the other way now, with lots of primerless paint available.
If you’re not careful you’re going to find that van so useful (as a van) that your shed is going to be sporting some very nice European windows that were repurposed and two of your other cars will be sporting For Sale signs and be replaced with a tilting dump trailer…
I’m currently looking at my deck that is in the same condition as your shed and will be going under the knife next week if I can make my way to the city and fill out the permit form. Count me in as a fan of the “Other side of the curb) classics as well.
Yes a Van, particularly with a high roof, is the ultimate vehicle for the maintenance, repair and rebuild business. While I’ve always had a pickup too my van is my go to machine for most projects. Sure when it is time for bulk goods like gravel or a big dump run with demolition debris the truck is the way to go.
I see projects like this in the bright Summer sunshine and I get nostalgic for the smell of fresh cut kiln dried fir and the whine of a circular saw, but having been a happy renter since my last house sold in 2006 that nostalgic feeling is short-lived.
I was lucky enough to have done well in the Real Estate Roulette game of the 90’s and early-to-mid aughts, but have been unfortunate enough since not to have been a viable player. I’m still not sure whether that’s a blessing or a curse. I did enjoy my projects, and they did pay off, fortunately, but I’m not sure I have the stamina or mental fortitude to relive those experiences today. Of course as I currently reside in a family owned home of ’70’s vintage (that we can’t sell if we want to due to its ties to some elder care financing) I have just enough little projects to keep a hand in without feeling overwhelmed.
My hat’s off to you for continuing to tackle these projects solo, particularly when it might be possible to hire someone on to do all or part of the job. I’ve patted myself on the back for years for being so committed during my days of reno and rehab, but in truth most of the “resolve” that I employed to complete those jobs was the product of financial necessity rather than a love for the process.
The 8’x12′ wooden shed that came with my house was probably at least 40 years-old when it finally caved in three years ago, unfortunately taking some of it’s contents with it.
I hurriedly built It’s replacement around a tube frame salvaged from one of those 10’x20′ tarp-covered temporary garage kits, with support added for a galvanized steel roof. Double tubing the 8 legs, plus adding steel trusses and wood structure for the walls and doors wound up making the the job way more complicated than I’d planned.
It’s great that you have a decent concrete slab, in the right location for your needs.
I couldn’t afford the cost of a slab. So I used PT wood as a base, with a raised floor.
My new shed is study enough, with a generous loft-area, and enough room remaining after storage for a small workbench / work space.
I even added some lighting and an outlet that connects to my house with a heavy outdoor power cord.
In my damp climate, I doubt it will last as long as my old shed, but maybe it will outlast me.
Happy Motoring, Mark
Flat roofs in a relatively rainy climate….I’ll NEVER understand that. At least its ‘just a shed’, PITA that it may be to have to deal with it. In my complex, there are 3 different styles of townhouse. One has a flat roof garage which are problematic enough (my neighbor has had his reskinned countless times) but there is a whole cluster of these at the far end where the condos themselves are flat roofed. I could have scored a good deal on one of those before I bought mine but I knew that had bad news written all over it.
Turns out these townhouses were designed by an architectural firm out of Arizona as I remember. What works in one part of the country isn’t necessarily ideal for another. Luckily, I bought the largest variant which has a 2-car garage and has proper pitch on the roof. They still use T-111 type (plywood based) siding and its an ongoing cycle of replacing rotten sections. Keeps the HOA busy.
Next time you fly into any city, even in the rainiest ones, look at the endless flat/low slope roofs on all the millions of square feet of industrial and retail buildings. Flat roof work ok, but they need professional installation and maintenance. And if they do leak a bit, it’s often not trapped, but comes right in, so the repair location is pretty obvious.
Absolutely true. What I also know is that commercial structures are built to a much different standard (functionality, and ease of maintenance) than residential (price, aesthetics). The key element is that those structures are usually designed with the conditions in mind. In the case of the townhouses in my complex, they essentially built the same things here in Oregon that they would down in the southwest. Mine doesn’t have the flat roofs, but there are no eves to speak of which can be problematic. In an industrial park, you wouldn’t likely have a forest of pine trees and their detritus like we do in my neighborhood. A metal roof like a lot of commercial structures use, would probably mitigate a lot of that. Here, its those synthetic membranes. With inadequate drainage and plenty of tree trash, its a perfect storm for problems.
It seems the healing rains were not so kind to your shed!
It’s amazing what termites and rot will do once they get established. Glad you were basically okay after your fall, I had that happen earlier this year on one of my small sheds. Had to do the “tuck and roll” after I hit, but was also fine.
Vans can be very handy for construction and remodeling. Ours is of a slightly different flavor which has come in handy, though it does reduce available interior space somewhat.
I wonder how much a used bucket van costs? There’s a mural artist local to me who has one, a mid-00s Econoline.
Ours is a 97 and was 3600. I saw one 1990 E-350 for $3000, generally they seem to go from 5-9000 for 10-15 year old examples and are mostly F350-F450 with utility beds.
So. What do you do to keep yourself busy? Holy crap! I wish I had half of your energy.
Just curious … the roof decking (not top plates) was 2×8 T&G, not 1×8? That seems overkill? BTW … as a former avid reader of British motorcycle magazines, I learned this term a few years ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_man
2×8 T&G descking used to be a popular way to build a subfloor out here in the land of endless Doug Fir. It can span considerable distance (can’t remember right now), so that one needs no joists in the usual sense, just some beams every 4-8′ or so. It’s in a lot of mid-century houses as the roof decking too, with the bottom of the deck and beams exposed. Since the wood was all old-growth back then, one could spec architectural grade (essentially clear) for a beautiful exposed wood ceiling. Of course there was no insulation, which is nowadays often added as rigid foam on top, and then a membrane (TPO or such) roof over it.
It’s still available at my lumber yard, in various lengths, but only used for repair work. And of course it’s now very young wood, so nothing like the very dense, fine-grained stuff of yore. It had its time.
Yeah I’ve got a house from the mid 50’s with “car decking” as I’ve heard it called as the floor structure. Very common in our area at that time, because of the low cost and great availability of it in the PNW. In that house and most in our area it is spanning ~12′ as that house is 24′ deep and just has a single beam running down the middle of the crawl space. In general I’d say it is very sturdy with no bounce.
Also a Paul mentioned you’ll frequently find it used as both the structure of the roof system as well as the finished ceiling though for what ever reason they typically do an 8′ span on those. Another house I own is in an area which was originally billed as a resort community that has many houses built in the 70’s with that style of roof. I love the looks but the lack of insulation with a vaulted ceiling as most are probably isn’t very energy effecient and the method of adding foam insulation over the top just isn’t as effective as a nice 12~18″ of insulation possible with the truss style roof.
Yeah I tired to get you to pick up that old Dodge camper van with the high roof as the high roof van makes a perfect vehicle for the home maintenance/repair/remodel part of the Landlord business.
I did have one van w/o the window in the rear side door and yeah never again, at least it had windows in the back doors.
I’m surprised that you didn’t add a ring of concrete blocks around the base of that slab. That would have prevented or at least dramatically slowed down potential rot in the future. I did that with a garage at one of my houses though I left the structure intact since it just had a little rot, and jacked it up to put two rows of block in. Puts the bottom of the siding and sill plate well above the splash zone. On the other hand that is a bit of work and I know at my age a lot of times I’m not thinking that I need to build this to last another 50 years since I’ll most likely be gone by then.
I hear you about the accumulation of stuff. I went through this last year when I sold off my assemblage of duplexes. I had systemically went though the units upgrading them as the turned over. The worst unit of the bunch was put on the back burner and became my storage shed. Well when I sold them to a developer they wanted the units broom clean. So I went through my room that was all of those extra pieces of shingles, those chunks of drywall, 2X, 4X, plywood, trim ect that was too big to throw away as well as the extra appliances and fixtures that I had accumulated when they could be had at a bargain. My Brother in law took a lot of the wood, to burn in the fireplace if nothing else, and I kept the best of the appliances and have actually used the dryer and refer in my replacement properties. I also came across a few of those items that I knew I had, somewhere, but of course took the easy way out and just bought another when I went to get other supplies.
I’m sheathing the bottom 1′ with PT plywood, and it’s going to have Hardi siding, so splash moisture won’t be a problem. That and some overhangs and gutter. I just couldn’t be bothered to lay block; it’s a PITA.
Yea laying the block is not a fun and easy job and the treated plywood, Hardi products, nice overhangs and gutters certainly will go a long way to maximizing the life.
Love these posts also! I just built an 8×10 shed last year and it really helped clear out the clutter from my house and especially my garage. I’ve got all my bulky power tools in there. When I’m not working on home improvement projects I’m working on my old beaters, so having space to move around in the garage is great. Working on a building project is way more fun than getting greasy from a car, most of the time anyway!
Euro-style windows?
Top hinged awnings, so full window size is available for ventilation. They lock in various degrees of opening. Most US rv windows only slide open part ways, because everyone is assumed to use A/C.
The also have a roll-up screen built in, as well as a roll-down blind. The two can be hooked together to give any proportionate degree of scree/blind. Typical European design way ahead of what the US industry has come up with. They are ubiquitous in Europe and Australia.
Sweet! I can see the attraction. And while I don’t closely follow the RV/caravan world, what little I’ve seen suggests to me that the Europeans, Australians, Kiwis, and Japanese have all kinds of clever ways of wringing a lot more utility out of a lot less bulk and mass—for obvious reasons.
Subdividing two lots into seven, and moving old houses in – impressive!
It seems to check just about every box in many citys’ wish lists these days – gentle densification, more rental, sustainability, heritage preservation. I trust the Eugene Planning Department was pleased.
They were; pleased and very helpful. Actually, I got the houses from them (free), as the University donated them to the city, and the city made them available with certain contingencies, like having to move them in 6 weeks. My subdivision was just finishing up, so I was the only one who applied for them. I’ll do a full story on that chapter soon, probably this winter as I’m too busy in the summer.
You are lucky to have a city that is easy to work with. The reason that one of my units was turned into a storage area was because of the City’s greedy ways. They decided to move forward with an attempt to take the entire neighborhood with eminent domain, just before the crash. They planed to completely re-plat the area as a modern pedestrian friendly neighborhood and rezone the area where they held apt buildings as high rise mixed use.
Of course a legal fight ensued and drug on for some time with the city finally backing down from the original proposal but holding the moratorium on new construction. I’m happy to say that I was a bit responsible for their emergency session to finally put the ink to the rezone. See I went down and got a permit to repair one of the units that was fire damaged when a careless tenant left a candle burning while they fell asleep. The tried to call my bluff with an enforcement action to either demolish or repair and I called theirs by going down and getting a permit. They had already lost the battle in trying to deny building permits for things as simple as water heater replacement.
Of course by then it didn’t make sense to take advantage of the rezone so I went into just keep them rented mode rather than finsh upgrading them all.
I had planned on developing them myself but the final zoning laws made it all very difficult and expensive to build, with agressive excessive design regulations.
So I put my assemblage up for sale. The developer has lost his shirt on that deal as after 18 months of struggling to get approval and numerous plan revisions to try and get approval the put them up for sale with plans that were “almost permit ready”. They did get takers for 2 of the 4 but they are retaining the other two and fixing them up to sell as duplexes, what the city claimed they wanted to get rid of so badly.
The city where I put most of that money is much more like Eugene in encouraging logical efficient infill development.
Great story! Looking forward to it.
Paul,
First let me tell you I’m full of admiration for those like you who can be bothered with the Sisyphus-like task of maintaining buildings. I used to restore cars for living but also worked in construction for a (very) short time – never again. I’d stick to cars on any given day… I realize it’s your business but, one of my friends owning a few properties in Vienna and Salzburg, I know how time consuming it is even when you not do the work yourself. And as for the authorities, well I’m sure you have been told enough about Austrian “Beamten” to know NOTHING is simple (particularly in Vienna). The rules they come up with are just unbelievable.
Well at least once you’ve finished you’ll be able to forget about that shed for a long time…
PS: Oh, the sight of a typical Bauunternehmen van in these typical US surroundings is surreal (I know you had them for a while but still, this is so EUROPEAN. You should letter it with something like “Installateur Niedermeyer – Gas, Wasser u. Heizung” and “Meisterbetrieb”).
Is wood also the structural material of bigger houses? As a Portuguese guy, for me that would be something totally different to see. Here we use mostly bricks to build houses.
Two ProMasters would be about perfect if you have the space. Maybe using the ’17 for the camper conversion and getting a ’14 to do hauling tasks. Both with Peugeot grilles.
Yeah for most houses and many apartment buildings, in the US wood makes up all of the structure. 3 stories purely out of wood, sitting on a concrete foundation is not uncommon. Of course you do see a few steel beams and posts mixed in where a large span is desired.
Wood frame houses can seem impermanent, but as long as you keep them painted and dry they will last more or less forever.
Three storeys used to be the maximum for wood frame, but six-storey apartments are now common, and an 18-storey student residence was recently completed at the University of British Columbia (with Austrian advisors :-).
Check out the adviser’s site here (he’s an architect himself and has a number of similar projects):
http://www.hermann-kaufmann.at/v5/
Wow I’ve never seen nor heard of building that high with essentially only wood for the structure. Went up very quickly.
I was surprised by the column sizing, I would have expected a little larger on the lower floors and more graduation to much smaller ones at the upper floors.
These are new techniques and materials developed in Europe some years back. I’ve been reading about it for a while now. We’re getting a multi-story parking garage built out of these newer engineered wood products.
Flat roofs are a curse, especially in the rainy PNW.
I was reading the link to when Paul first got the Promaster, and after some research I think the lower MPG Paul is getting vs. the buildagreenrv is getting in his 1500 Transit is the axle ratio is 3.16, while Paul’s is equipped with a 3.86 ratio. Wish I had Paul’s woodworking skills, I’m sure the new shed and camper conversion will be top notch.
http://www.promasterforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35202
I don’t know how you have the energy, Paul. I get exhausted just thinking about all of this! But then I have piss-poor practical/construction/handiwork skills – I didn’t take after my father in that respect, who is quite capable – and I’m exactly the kind of guy who would just pay someone for this kind of work. Of course, that’s not exactly economical and so if you have the time, energy and skills, like you do, you’re going to come out ahead.
Good old rainy, misty, foggy, web-footed Eugene!
There are many “surprises” like this in houses and sheds in good old foggy Coastal Maine.
I can’t imagine the energy it must take to be responsible for all of this *and* CC, so I commend your decision to take it a little bit easier than before here. The excellent contributors can handle the content (whose ranks I hope to join sooner or later, having only accomplished the COAL series so far…too many things to do…case in point!)
Quite interesting to read about these construction and repair projects as well, and to see what goes on “under the roof” as opposed to under the hood.
So glad to hear you survived your fall and are back at the project. And good to be reminded that other people do stupid stuff, too. I picked this week to teach myself how to re-seal a driveway, and I got so stupid hot I am just now recovering. The heat just comes right up through your rubber boots and tries to melt you, too. It was interesting, however, watching as the water I would sprinkle on the surface prior to pouring out the sealant would just steam away. Asphalt driveway re-sealing is an Autumn project.
Testifying to the utility of the van! Last August my older daughter decided to move to Colorado. However, her house needed a lot of help getting it ready for market, so from August through the sale in November, I did a lot of R&R on her place. She’s pretty handy, but not quite as handy as her mother.
In February of this year, my wife took a tumble and injured her knee (again). We live in an early 60’s split level, but with her knee and my foot and ankle issues we decided to sell it this spring. During all of this time, my van has been the best pickup truck I’ve ever owned. Hauling this, that and the next thing all over the place in all kinds of weather. I can’t imagine a better platform for this kind of thing.
In fact, when my wife gets back with the van this afternoon, I will load my mountain bike into it and take it to the local bike shop; I think the last dirt trail I was on during my 25 mile ride this morning injured my back wheel somehow.
I have a funny/scary story about a fall. A couple of years ago, I was cutting down a very overgrown Mulberry bush. It had gotten to tree size and I was cutting it in sections. I’d gotten all of the brush off and was working on the bigger branches. I was up on a stepladder and I thought I had it on solid ground. Much to my horror, as I’m finishing off one of the branches, the leg of my ladder breaks through a mole tunnel and I go falling off the ladder with a running chainsaw…
Luckily, I was only six feet up and I apparently threw the chainsaw when I started to fall, so we landed in different places. After I got back up and realized what happened, I busted out in laughter. Relief, because I had only a few scrapes and an appreciation of how ridiculous the whole thing must have looked to my neighbors…