(first posted 3/30/2013) Dave Rush just left this picture and comment on the ’60 Corvair Cohort post: I just got back from a month in Cuba and saw about 10 first generation Corvairs and they all had a front engine/live rear axle drivetrain swap. Ladas were the favourite donor car.
Wow. This is the first I’ve heard of this. It just goes to show how in demand any old car body with wheels is in Cuba. And to what extent they go to keep them on the road. It also shows how the Corvair’s body, which was also used by the Pontiac-Olds-Buick front engine compacts was designed in such a way to make this easy. Don’t try this with a VW or Renault R10.
Of course, others have gone done this road before, but not for such utilitarian purposes: (Corvair with Jag V12 engine)
Incredible. I would suspect an April Fool Photoshop prank if it were not two days early for them. The extent of re-engineering and rebuilding that would be necessary for this conversion is staggering: cutting away the trunk floor, adding engine mount hardpoints, creating underfloor space for the transmission and driveshaft, substituting an entirely different rear suspension with most likely new hardpoints, etc. It would be an completely new car aside from the unit body structure.
A Zaporozhets V4 engine, being air-cooled and rear-mounted, would have made sense as a simpler conversion using Soviet Bloc mechanicals. Perhaps the Zaporozhets was not exported to Cuba, or its engine was too underpowered for the Corvair.
Or better yet, a transverse FWD engine.
I know that a few Americans have dropped in Chevy V8s and such in Corvairs. For someone with basic fabrication/welding skills, it probably isn’t all that hard. And it’s obvious that the Cuban mechanics have plenty of that. I’ve seen pictures of some remarkable feats of creativity in keeping old cars rolling. Just not this.
The Corvair body shares much with its front-engine siblings like the F-85, Tempest and Special. So it’s not nearly as ambitious as somethings I can imagine. A practical solution to a problem, really.
I’m still amazed though. This kind of stuff is so much more interesting than the “LSx swap”.
I know that a few Americans have dropped in Chevy V8s and such in Corvairs.
Mounted fore or aft?
Both.
In the rear, there have been several approaches: all the way in the back, replacing the original engine. That’s best done with an aluminum Buick/Olds 215 V8 or Rover V8. The second way is to turn the transaxle around, and mount the V8 in the back seat. That’s the best, in terms of weight distribution.
I remember it being a popular swap in CA, for the gen2 Corvair, and the result was (if done properly) a giant killer.
The third way is using the Toronado FWD transaxle and either a big Olds or Caddy engine. 500 cubes in the back. That puts the weight a bit further back, not as ideal as the other one in terms of weight distribution.
And in the front? Just google “Corvair with V8 in front” and several come up, like this one: http://www.dailyturismo.com/2013/02/5k-unsafe-sitting-still-1961-chevy.html
I’ve read of others too.
Ate Up With Motor has a great write-up on the Crown Corvair, a mid-engined V-8 monster that I very desperately want to ride in, if not drive:
http://ateupwithmotor.com/sports-cars-and-muscle-cars/67-crown-v8-corvair.html
Not that he needs my help, but AUWM is one of the best automotive history websites I’ve ever read. Aaron does really good work. That said, he needs to do some Lancias. 🙂
Robert Kim wrote in part – “A Zaporozhets V4 engine, being air-cooled and rear-mounted, would have made sense as a simpler conversion using Soviet Bloc mechanicals. Perhaps the Zaporozhets was not exported to Cuba, or its engine was too underpowered for the Corvair.”
——
I’ve seen quite a few Zaporozhets cars ib Cuba. My guess is though that they
we’re never officialy imported by the Cuban government, but probably privately imported by Cubans working or studying abroad in the USSR or other Eastern Block countries.
I wonder how much reenginering was needed with this, as I presume that Corvairs do not have ‘tunnel’ in the middle for the driveshaft to go through. Did they had to fabricate a tunnel for the driveshaft?
Seeing how strongly angled downward that engine is, I suspect they ran it under the floor, rather than cutting it up. Just jack up the rear a bit…
One of our local car club members went to Cuba last year as part of a National Geographic team (yes Americans can go to Cuba but have to be attached to an educational or NGO trip rather than as a private party). He took several hundred pictures of cars on the island writing a nice report. I ought to contact him and grab some pictures for a write up for this site.
If I am still living when relations with Cuba (finally) are normalized, I would love to open up a shop down there and begin restoring some of those olds 50s era cars that are quite plentiful. Most of them have been modified to run on alternative engines but a few still linger with their original drivetrains. Too bad Google Street View doesn’t exist there…
Combines two of my favorite vehicles – Ladas and Corvairs! Looks a bit like an early 60s Dodge Lancer with that grill.
I’m not a huge Corvair fan but this makes me a bit mournful. Rear engine was the essence of the car.
Astonishing! With a grille and everything. But then like you said, not all that crazy given the BOP compacts.
This is an alternate universe car. The one where Chevy kept the breakthrough styling and put an inline 4 in the front. No swing axles. The universe where we still have Ernie Kovacs and we never heard of Ralph Nader. The one where Chevy II never happened, and Monza was the Mustang of its time. I love it.
I wonder about the other parallel universe where instead of the Vega, GM did this but moved the whole flat-6 Corvair powertrain up front and launched an FWD compact based on proven mechanicals in 1971,
A Corvair-powered FWD Vega? Hmm…..
When I hear about some of the more bizarre (and labor/engineering intensive) Cuban drivetrain swaps into pre-1961 American cars, it makes me wonder what happened to the original donor car — the Lada in this instance. Are there that many Ladas that have received enough body damage in accidents that they are undrivable, but they still have good drivetrains? And there are no good Lada bodies with blown engines to make a much easier swap?
It’s fun to speculate about that kind of thing. Maybe a guy with a dented-up Lada just happened to have an uncle with an old Corvair. Maybe the sheer difficulty of the task was one of the attractions. I’m thinking that the guy who put this Corlada together is someone who likes a challenge.
Whenever I see one of these patched-together Cuban marvels, I am reminded that necessity is the mother of invention. And Cubans are certainly inventive!
Ladas were the main new cars imported to Cuba for decades, during the whole Cold War era. Undoubtedly, many gave up their bodies to accidents or whatever.
Here’s the key thing: In Cuba, one can’t (until now) sell cars or other private property. And new cars were very hard to come by. So if you had a solid body titled to you, every effort was made to keep it on the road. That’s the primary reason that all those old US cars are still going with transplanted engines and drive trains. Use it or lose it (more or less).
Aha, I get it. The value is in the VIN and/or the title.
I just visited Cuba as well, but didn’t see any Corvairs this close as to have found out about the engine swap. Very interesting transformation and as many have said, a testament to GM engineers back then.
With that grille (what is it from?) the Corvair looks quite Italian, I think.
I thought the same, Lancia Flavia immediately came to mind.
There are a lot of Ladas in Cuba, so it’s possible that enough have been wrecked to donate their engines. I’ve also seen one turned into a four door convertible, too.
Then again, it doesn’t have to be a Lada engine, I saw a 1953-ish Buick coming down the road towards me sounding very diesel. It sounded like some large truck diesel, probably Soviet, barely turning over while the car was doing a good 60 or 70 km/h.
Frequent traveler to Cuba. Just came back from a trip there in Feb. You are right about the diesel, most of the old cars are converted to Mitubishi diesel powerplants, with the associated 5 speed behind them (why Mitsu I don’t know). The funny thing about these cars is the more you look at them, the more you realize the crazy amount of home engineering has gone into them. On my last trip there, we rode in a 52 Chevrolet, 4 cyl mitsu diesel with the three-on-the-tree shifter converted to operate the now 5 speed transmission. Another car that comes to mind was a late 50’s wildcat, same diesel conversion, but with a complete front suspension swap with a solid front axle and disk brakes and some definitely non-gm rear differential setup. The car’s there are all definitely 20 footers, with many worked to death. The only real clean cars are the state sponsored taxis in some of the touristy areas.
Its strange to see that gas door on the fender now that its front engined, this was a 700 series sedan.
I would like to find out how they got a Corvair into Cuba, Castro came in January 1959 long before Corvairs came out and its doubtful American cars would have been shipped for much longer as most Westerners fled.
The first phase of the US embargo didn’t begin to take effect until October of 1960. Castro didn’t align himself with Russia at first. That only happened increasingly during the first few years after he took over. At first, he wasn’t that big a deal to the US. But when he seized and nationalized US companies and property in July 1960, things began to change quickly.
When I was stationed at Gitmo, one of the civilian workers told me about some three cylinder diesel that powered a batch of old US cars. I cannot remember who made it and, of course, I never got outside the gate. The civilians came in and out every day. That was in 1976-77 and it may not be the same anymore.
Speaking of vintage American iron in Cuba with home-brew 3-cylinder diesel conversions…
A few months ago, I had a ride in a privately-owned taxi in Havana – a 1957 Plymouth, powered by a 3-cylinder Perkins diesel hooked to a five speed transmission from a 1 1/2 or 2-ton Russian GAZ truck. The original front floor section and transmission tunnel had to had to be cut out and replaced with a much enlarged homemade, heavy gauge sheet steel tunnel to accommodate the transmission.
Also, in Palma Soriano Cuba, I know of a 1959 Buick Electra 225 6-window sedan, with a beam axle under the front end and leaf-spring suspension all around, powered by much over-fueled, black smoke belching. 3-71 2-stroke Detroit Diesel! Cubans are truly amazing at what they can and do do with little money and almost nothing to work with. What they may lack in sophistication, they make up for with ingenuity and shear willpower. But then, as the old saying goes – and as any Cuban will surely testify – “Second class driving beats hell out of first class walking”!
Likely from a tractor, that was a popular thing to do in NZ with old Fords, there was an ex military kit to fit a Fordson diesel into a V8 Ford truck but there were home brews getting around with 3 banger Ford and Perkins tractor diesels.
From personal experience a David Brown 990 tractor 4 will get a 48 Bonus pickup to 50mph eventually but you get 48mpg.
Had an ’74 F250 Styleside (ex 302 Cleveland) already repowered with a Mazda-built 4 litre Perkins 6cyl. This was mid 1980s. Smooth engine, 5-speed, heaps of torque, 60 mph flat-knacker. There were a few of these Mazda conversions knocking around. For a mere $900 a very useful unit, I thought.
I think I’ve mentioned this before, but if you haven’t seen the documentary “Yank Tanks”, you’re in for a treat. You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff Cubans have done to keep their old American cars on the road.
Wonder if anyone has put a air cooled VW engine in a Corvair. You would need to have a reverse rotation cam made, or install transaxle along with engine. I know it makes no sense, but stranger things have been done. (See post on Ferrari indigestion). Less power unless you hot rod it. A Type 3 or 4 ‘pancake’ type should fit. I hope this example doesn’t stay ‘Rat Rodded’, but I think that’s what the owner was going for.
I see your idea and raise you one: Porsche Turbo engine into Corvair.
There was an article on a Oldsmobile Toronado V8 powered Porsche 912 coupe in the 1975 “Petersen’s complete book of engine swapping. no.4” Kind of a Hot Rod magazine yearbook. The entire powertrain was just transplanted in the middle of the car. It took up the backseat and was used an engine cover made up of old suitcases. Any Porsche of this era would be too valuable now for this conversion.
I still have that book!
One of the most interesting Corvair engine swaps that I’ve come across is Jay Eitel’s 1967 Monza Coupe with a Jaguar V12 installed in the frunk. It’s a lengthy read but worth the time – Link here:
https://www.corvaircorsa.com/V-12-01.html
It even looks pretty good!
The Corvair Society of America (CORSA) has a chapter devoted to Corvairs with alternate engines, e.g. V8s, V6s, etc. Front-engine, mid-engine and rear-engine. Here’s a link to their website, where you’ll see plenty of photos.
https://www.v8registry.com/
Allan Lacki
Member – CORSA Board of Directors
Wow!
I’d like to have a few Cuban mechanics here. Dealing with so called “Mechanics” here
in the USA. We need some mechanics.
I have 14 cars…all foreign (French/German/English/Italian) about as simple as you can get..my mechanics only give the ole…Complicated, why-do (did) they do that….
Again…Cubans to me…I’d open a working garage and get the issues out…!!
Vive la Panhard
It’s the same here in the UK. Independent repair garages, quite often one man outfits run by an apprentice served mechanic are now an endangered species. Depending on where they are they often close when the proprietor retires and get demolished for property development.
I deal with an independent Citroen garage in NZ amazing service diagnosis over the phone 3 times now, no new parts fitted just my shadetree repairs, getting in there is difficult but my doctor is in South Auckland so last trip I scheduled a scan , found the issue, found the part its all good,
The guy who owns it did his time on C5 Citroens, one of the most complicated cars ever he knows them backwards.
Indians and Iraquis seem to populate the truck repair scene over here, I got lumbered with taking trucks in for repairs so got to see who was doing it or not doing it, we had to ditch the local Freightliner Mitsubishi Mercedes dealer along with a lot of others, nice drivers lounge though coffee wifi TV, not the hardest work Ive done.We used independent shops after that with better results, except for the Volvos they went to Volvo, who are secretive beyond belief. But free coffee for drivers.
Looks similar to the 1961 through 1963 Studebaker Lark.
Forgot to include photo.
I’m seeing an early Valiant or Lancer, which of course look like a Lark in front. What car donated its grille here? Look like maybe a Lancia from twenty years back, but I can’t quite place it.
I’m seeing an early Valiant or Lancer, which of course look like a Lark in front. What car donated its grille here? Look like maybe a Lancia from twenty years back, but I can’t quite place it.
not sure why old text got repeated in above post, this was the intended text:
So did GM and Chevrolet explicitly design the Corvair platform to accept a front-engine/rear-drive drivetrain from the get-go, or was it just chance, or just the way they were used to engineering their cars? I know at one point Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick were set to each get a version of the rear-engine Corvair, with Pontiac’s version (Polaris) seemingly progressing the furthest in development before being dropped for the Tempest instead. Photo of Olds version above.
Undoubtedly it started out as just a rear engine Corvair. Exactly at what stage of its development the RWD Y-bodies were committed to I don’t know. The Corvair’s body wasn’t difficult to adapt to front engine RWD because in part because it used a conventional front suspension that left plenty of room for an engine up there. That wouldn’t have worked with a VW, for instance.
While the donor grille here does look vaguely Lancia-esque, it’s not from any Lancia I can identify. Lancia didn’t start using this general style of horizontal split grill until the ’79 Delta, but this stamping looks more like a ’60s-era relic. Before the Delta, Lancia’s horizontal grilles were just an open trapezoid-ish shape without a center split and a huge Lancia shield in the middle, and their split grilles before that were a vertical pre-war style.
In Cuba, access to tourists is a key ingredient for earning a living for many people. Taxi cab drivers are usually the best paid of any large group of workers. I exclude international musicians and performers. They make more than doctors, lawyers, deans of colleges, generals, etc. Many of the classic American cars work as taxis and the drivers charge more for rides in them than the drivers of Lada taxi drivers can charge. So, if this Corvair is a taxi, it would be a good investment to keep it running.