(first posted 12/12/2015) Let me start with a confession. In 2012, I very nearly bought a 1980 Triumph TR7 roadster (or Drop Head Coupe as it was officially labelled). It was a close call, and I was probably only a successful test drive and final haggle away from agreeing to a purchase. Quite likely, you will now shake your head in some form of despair or perhaps in confirmation that what is sometimes said about the misty eyed English and old sports cars is true. But perhaps I can try to change your mind.
Let’s start by checking the background to the TR7. It was conceived by British Leyland, not Triumph, to replace the MG B, BGT, Triumph GT6 and TR6 – indeed it was also known within BL as the Corporate Sports car. All these cars had their roots in the 1950s – either as derivatives of elderly and very ordinary saloons (the MGB was based on the 1959 Austin Cambridge/Morris Oxford Farina saloon and the GT6 on the Triumph Spitfire, which in turn was built on the 1959 Triumph Herald chassis) or as the latest in a line of cars traceable back to the original TR2 of 1953. In other words, cars that were more than ripe for replacement by the 1970s.
Of course, these cars also covered a wide space in the market, ranging from 4 cylinder 1.5 litre to 6 cylinder 2.5 litres, from easy going sports car to the powerful full British roadster experience, from 60 bhp to 125bhp. Or maybe, it wasn’t actually a wide space – after all, Ford didn’t worry about competing in it at all.
And then there are the regulatory and legislative influences. In 1972, it was widely expected that open cars would be effectively banned in the North American market, on safety reasons. Add in prevailing and expected emissions legislation and a fuel crisis, and you can see why many were saying that the sports car’s days were numbered, and the more powerful ones’ very definitely limited.
So this had to be a car to cover several bases, it had to fit into an environment that was much more complex and constraining than previously, and had to be of the 1970s. Simply taking the platform from, say, the Morris Marina or Triumph Dolomite was not going to be enough, even before you think about such alternatives as the Ford Capri or VW Scirocco. Indeed, you could argue that cars like these killed the British roadster as much as its own inadequacies did. ”You can have a sports car if we can get the shopping and the kids in it”. Dare I say dependability might have been a factor as well?
To try to understand more fully what the largest market for this car would want, BL sent a team from Product Planning and Engineering, led by Spen King, Triumph’s Director of Engineering and the technical author of the Range Rover and Rover SD1, to the USA in late 1970 to meet not just BL’s American operation and the US dealers, but also journalists and sports car racing teams, to gather information on what was wanted. The answer was a conventional car, with an easy-to-fix-and-adapt format. Meaning, a front engine, rear wheel drive, good handling and roadholding but no need for independent rear suspension or fuel injection. Four cylinders should be enough. Comfort and interior space were pre-requisites as well, as was some style.
Photo from www.aronline.co.uk
Prior to the TR7 (or Bullet) project getting the go ahead in 1971, British Leyland had two competing possible sports cars, one from Triumph and one from Austin-Morris. The Triumph proposal was for a conventionally engineered car with a Targa roof and restrained but contemporary styling with a resemblance to the Porsche 914, at least after Michelotti, Triumph’s preferred Italian designer, had been asked to finish it.
Photo from www.aronline.co.uk
The Austin-Morris (or MG if you wish) proposal was for a mid-engine car, with an Austin Maxi engine and gearbox driving the rear wheels, Issigoinis’s hydrolastic suspension and striking styling, emphasising the mid engine in an almost pocket supercar way. In engineering layout, it was close to the much later MGF. The two concepts were to be cut down to one preferred option by BL’s top management, taking input from the American trip, and Triumph and Austin-Morris were both challenged to provide styling proposals for the car, as BL considered the existing proposal front-engine Triumph proposal as possibly too conservative in style to succeed.
The Austin-Morris response to this request was by Harris Mann, perhaps one of the best known stylists in Britain at the time, with the Austin Allegro and Princess to his credit. Limiting any option was the expected National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) Safety Standard 208, which was expected to effectively outlaw fully open cars. Mann therefore worked around the concept of a strong rear quarter and Targa roof, enabling him to give a mid-engine impression to the style of the car. BL were also noting the success of the Datsun 240Z. Perhaps America wasn’t going to be allowed convertibles, but perhaps also America didn’t mind?
Power came from the Triumph Dolomite Sprint’s 2.0 litre 4 cylinder engine, though with a conventional 8 valve head rather than the innovative 16 valve single camshaft head fitted to the more powerful Sprint. This gave something like 105bhp in UK spec but perhaps only 80bhp on the first cars into North America. Still, it was a significant step up from the MGB’s performance.
Size wise, the car was on an 88 inch wheelbase, shorter by 6 inches and 3 inches compared to the MGB and TR6 respectively, although the TR7 was longer than either, with longer overhangs, and around 6 inches wider as well. It weighed around 2350lb; more than an MGB, though with a much stronger structure and a full roof. BL briefed the press about ambitions for 60-70,000 cars per year, which proved to be quite wide of the mark. Total production was around 115,000, and the most in any one year was 38,000 in 1976, though the aged but open-top MGB continued to be produced at a rate barely reduced in the face of a new competitor, and actually outsold the TR7 in every year except one.
The key European competitor to the TR7 was the Fiat X1/9. Size wise they were very close, with the Triumph being a couple of inches longer and wider, and 200lb heavier at 2238lb. The Fiat had a 1.3 litre, and later a 1.5 litre mid-mounted engine that lost out on power to the Triumph but made up for it in character and tuneful noises. In acceleration, the Fiat lost out initially, but actually outran the Triumph eventually. The Fiat also had the Targa roof denied the Triumph, of course, and had an even longer life, lasting from 1982 to 1989, and outselling the Triumph by 45,000 cars.
The first production cars came to America in early 1975. The striking styling had survived, complete with the pop-up head lamps. It was launched to the US press at Boca Raton in Florida in January 1975. A shipment of 35 pre-production cars (as production cars were held up by a strike in the factory in Speke, Liverpool) were assessed on arrival and with a lot of midnight oil, 17 presentable cars were prepared. Initial press reports were certainly not unfavourable, and several reports gave essentially positive reports in the context of the step change from the very dated TR6, which was discontinued a year later, and MGB, the GT version of which the TR7 effectively replaced in North America.
Three cars were handed over to leading journalists from the monthly magazines for extended drives across country. Don Fuller, from Road and Track, got back to California safely; John Christy of Motor Trend was forced into a ditch by a truck in a snowstorm and Leon Mandel of Car and Driver set out for Nevada. His engine seized in northern Texas.
After delays to accommodate the volume requirements of North America (or the inability of BL to meet even disappointing sales volumes), the car was launched into the UK in May 1976, again to a welcome that was broadly favourable, as long as you weren’t expecting a direct TR6 replacement or a convertible, including from LJK Setright, who drove one for CAR magazine. Being Setright, although he hadn’t needed them for visibility, he tried the headlights, as he wanted to experience any aerodynamic effects. Only only one popped up. But, if you were used to an MGB or MGB GT and the (very small) rear seats were not necessary, then this was a distinct improvement in just about every department, though I accept the looks are subjective.
In 1978, the Speke factory was closed, against a lot of political pressure, and assembly moved to Canley in Coventry, Triumph’s traditional home, joining the Triumph Dolomite in the factory. Quality markedly improved at this point, though it may well have been too late.
The convertible version finally came to North America in 1979 and to Europe in 1980, with a design by Michelotti (did BL really have insufficient engineering capacity for this relatively minor task?) that incidentally addressed some of the criticisms of the styling. Not all by any means – the side creases remained though they were no longer clashing with the roof line and the wheels still looked slightly lost in the wheel arches. Still, it was enough for BL to withdraw the MG B roadster from the US market in 1980.
The convertible was promoted in the UK with this rather effective poster ad, which I remember passing during my (successful) driving test. One interesting technical fact about the convertible is that structural vibrations were damped out by harmonic dampers (essentially weights) in the front bumper – when you look closely at convertible TR7, you may notice a drooping profile across the bumper.
The other big event was the installation of the Rover (ex-Buick) 3.5 litre V8 in 1979 to create the conveniently named TR8, which was capable of 125 mph or more and 60 mph in around 7.5 seconds. This created a car much more capable of competing on performance with the Datsun/Nissan 240Z/260ZX for example. Around 2,700 TR8s were sold, the vast majority in North America. Only a few hundred remained in the UK.
Production moved again in 1980 to the Rover factory in Solihull, alongside the Rover 2300/2600/3500 SD1, but the strong pound, low volumes and the closure of Solihull for car production in 1981 put a final nail in the coffin. BL’s hard-nosed Chairman Michael Edwardes stated that the car had never made any money.
So, that’s a quick history of the car. What is there to like in the TR7?
Well, I’d start with the styling. Yes, there’s a lot going on but it’s distinctive, characterful, and in many colours, almost fun. Isn’t that what a sports car should be? There was some originality too, and it doesn’t attempt to wear any traditional style or brand identifiers, like a predictable grille shape. The fact the style implies the car has a mid engine is a bonus, and helps give it a good sized boot. If you don’t like the fixed head, then the convertible has some more classic elegance.
Then there’s the interior. Compared with its predecessors’, this was major step forward, not only in practicality but also appeal. The six dials were all clearly visible, the minor controls all reachable and the style was fully contemporary. There was plenty of space (one of the feedback points from the American research trip in 1970), the seats were quickly praised for their shape and comfort, and the heating and ventilation worked. And you can easily replace the tartan fabric.
On the road, compared with the MGB, the car was almost a revelation. Autocar described it as a chassis in search of an engine. This may be overselling the chassis a bit but this car was reasonably class and time competitive in road manners, though more power would have been useful. That’s where the TR8 (belatedly) comes in, of course.
And don’t forget the car’s motorsport achievement, in Europe and North America.
In Europe, using Dolomite Sprint or V8 engines, the car had some success on road rallies between 1976 and 1980, whilst in North America the car won the SCCA PRO Rally Championship from 1977 to 1980.
It’s also very modifiable. Adding a Dolomite Sprint engine in straight forward – BL always planned to do this as a production option, but it never came to pass. Slotting in the V8 is relatively easy too. The gearbox for both is shared with the Rover SD1, making the process even easier, and indeed most examples of the “TR8” over here are actually conversions. The Rover V8 is available in many different increased capacities, up to 5.0 litres and over 300 bhp was available as late as 2006, so some significant power can be slotted in.
And then the strange things that happened (or more often didn’t happen) to the TR7 somehow add to its appeal, like old folklore adds to the appeal of rural England. BL planned a stretched 2+2 version, known as the Triumph Lynx to truly take the fight to the Ford Capri and VW Scirocco. Politics, lack of money and the closure of Speke ended this dream, but some of the prototypes remain, and the idea is sound, as it could have truly competitive with the Capri on style and ability, with a sports car name and link.
Even as late as 1979, BL were looking at a reskinned, extended wheelbase car with the BL O Series engines from the Morris Marina and Princess to replace the TR7 as we remember it, and to finally replace the MGB in the UK. BL actually planned Triumph and MG versions of this idea. There were proposals for an MG version of the car all way from the early 1970s until 1980, sometimes to complement to the Triumph, sometimes instead.
You may want to applaud BL for trying to make the idea work, arguably three times from various factories, and with three configurations – fixed head coupe, drop head and V8.
So, my reasons can be summarised as liking the styling, that it was modern, and not a reworked mediocre saloon, and British; that the concept was what the dominant market said it wanted. Asking the market what it wanted can be a good plan – after all, the next team to do so in this market were successful. As early as 1976, Bob Hall of Motor Trend was approached in exactly that way in what can be seen as the start of the Mazda Miata MX-5 project.
Add in that it had a great interior; there was a decent suspension set up, itself a novelty for a British sports car; the V8 engine made it quite a car; the convertible adaptation was visually successful and is still very appealing; as a classic car, it’s great value and easy to own and it still gets recognised, turns heads, gets a smile and (all too often) a shake of the head.
And some of the 70s colours are great; I never said this was scientifically based preference; this is my very personal preference – opinions expressed here may not be those of the CC Community.
Photo for illustrative purposes only
And why didn’t I buy that TR7 in 2012? Well, the car failed to start at one point during that test drive. To be fair to the car and the seller, it was actually due to a (deliberately) loose battery connection, but the seed was sown. And the seller said the roof would leak. They all did, apparently.
I bought a 1990 Mazda MX-5 instead. After all it’s the same idea, just executed a little better.
I could be talked into a V8 hardtop with very little effort, I like those Rover V8s one would fit nicely in my Minx but better in a TR7.
There’s a theory that the TR7 is a microcosm of BL. Good idea, but took too long to develop; too much parts bin underneath to really convince; aimed at the wrong market niche; marketed before it was ready; over ambitious production plans in the wrong factory; basic weaknesses never addressed (leaks, rust and breakdowns); previous models continued instead of replaced; inadequately built; under-developed once it was on the market.
But our kid’s right – the looks have improved with time, the interior looks great and you can probably make it start most mornings nowadays.
Thank you for another splendid read Roger. Another tale of BL lost opportunity though it did buy Triumph a stay of execution. One eyed TR7s were a common sight as the headlight mechanism often failed. I’ll admit to never liking them though I rather like the Lynx, a shame it never happened.
Think yourself lucky you bought a Mazda, better to be burning rubber than shoe leather!
I’m with you, Gem. I never see that Lynx photo without thinking “If only…..”. I remember all the stories going about in the car mags at the time, and wondering if they’d ever produce it. No TR7 for me (the looks!), but a Lynx was a definite maybe.
When Wheels tested the TR7, they called it a two-seater sedan. Our emission laws strangled what power you Brits got, and they weren’t that fond of the chassis either.
A V8 Lynx please. On the other hand it would have had the infamous BL shoddy build quality and been rushed into production before being fully developed and used as many obsolete model parts as possible to save money.
My carpool driver and her husband bought a 1980 TR7 roadster, a 5-speed car. It was fine until it got to be three years old or so. I remember once when she turned the headlights on and the lights started alternately popping up and then retracting…left, right, left, right. I have no idea what kind of electrical fault would cause that, but I do remember that the motors for raising and lowering the lights were wired directly through the headlight switch, with no relay involved.
I find it interesting that these cars were contemporary with and compared with the Fiat X1/9, another model that contributed to its manufacturer’s leaving the American market.
Another humorous thought: The engine was down-rated from a sedan engine. Isn’t it supposed to be the other way around when you spec out a sports car?
Never seen that Lynx before. Kind of ironic that it’s sitting next to the mid-V8-engined Rover that was a genuine contender.
I want to like the TR7. But can’t.
I suspect that’s a common position!
I have memories of these from my SCCA autocross days (1973-76). The four speed cars had absolutely abominable build quality. How bad? The “general knowledge” that a Yugo is the worst car ever brought into the US shows how much the TR-7 has been forgotten, as the two cars had equal build quality in the Triumph’s first couple of years. Then again, the TR-7 had the advantage of it not being a mass-market product.
I see them every so often, and I’m occasionally tempted. And the temptation rapidly goes away. I’d still really prefer a TR-6.
At the time of this car’s introduction, a 20-something gal I was seeing wanted a “sporty” car to go with her new job and apartment.
We test drove one at the local BL dealer. One car refused to start, the next one started but the necessary-in-New Orleans A/C system died during the 10 minute test drive. The THIRD one refused us entry thru the passenger door.
I advised my gf to look elsewhere. Eventually she purchased a Toyota Celica. She enjoyed many, many years of trouble free ownership.
The few times we saw a TR7, usually dead on the shoulder of the road, we both chortled as we drove past it.
A Lynx with the Sprint engine might just have broken through. It avoids the black vents that give a vinyl top hint. Also if the stretch did not had too much weight a rwd European Scirrocco for a lot less than Alfa might….. Not really. With this and the Marina, BL obviously got the message that a simple British car had appeal but did not seem to know how to pull it off.
I wonder if they were really shuffling this car around between plants in search of a better labor force or just that they had not enough volume and too many factories. Surely the same union was repping the workers at all three plants.
Roger there are things to like. The upholstery, the low hoodline, and really that they actually built something really new and got it exported. I am sure by 1970, most people thought the plug would be pulled any day on the old designs. I wonder if the SD1 had done a little better in the USA BL would have kept the TR7-8 around.
I was looking for the Dave Barry quote regarding English cars (along the lines that they cannot traverse a mall parking lot without major engine failure) and I found this:
“Eugene is located in western Oregon, approximately 278 billion miles from anything.”
Dave Barry
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/dave_barry.html
As I recall, when production moved from Speke to Canley the front decal was changed from the “TR7” on the red car at the top of the piece, to the laurel wreath on the green car. This was an indicator of provenance for buyers – ie, here’s one that’s better screwed together.
I like TR7s, but it was classic Leyland to keep the MGs and Spitfire going alongside: “Here comes tomorrow! (Yesterday also available.)”
You’re correct on the badge sequence. The first red car is a Speke car, the green one with the laurel wreath is a Canley car and the red car in the Ferrari ad is a Solihull car.
Build quality got better each time, but some true Triumph fans prefer the Speke and Canley cars.
Panel pressings always came from Speke (no 1 plant, no 2 was the assembly plant)
A terrific article about a car I’ve always liked.
Seeing a Triumph of any of the TR6/7/8 varieties didn’t happen for me until nearly grown, and then it was from a distance. I appreciate the interior shots as that was new territory for me. Cloth pattern is a subjective thing, but overall the interior is quite inviting.
Your statement about the engine seizing in Texas reminded me where I first saw any pictures of this variety of Triumph – it was on the Texas themed show of Dallas. My parents were in the habit of watching it, so I saw it weekly for while.
The Dallas TR7 was driven by Lucy Ewing. She was previously shown buying an X1/9 in a showroom and driving it. Presumably the producers thought viewers wouldn’t be able to tell the difference!
As a fan of the Triumph brand (I used to own a TR3), it’s unfortunate how BL got “so close….but not quite there”. Perhaps the FHC MIGHT have been better received with a name other than TR7? Perhaps the Triumph Sprint? Next, with a dearth of models, why not slot in that Dolomite head as a step-up model? Was the market really shrinking that quickly that the 7 and 8 couldn’t have stayed on the market a little longer?
Love most of the colors, not completely in love with the plaid upholstery, and have seen TR7 roadsters for sale….and been tempted.
As for the coupes? ONLY one of the special edition models, I seem to remember a white/black car, a yellow/black car…..and maybe a red/black car.
There was a brown softtop TR7 for sale on a BHPH lot near Cincinnati Children’s Hospital recently…cool little car, but the British-car lack of reliability scared me off. Keeping old Volvos alive is bad enough, I really don’t want to deal with 1970s British car issues.
The sofftop is SO much better looking than the FHC, and the interior looks fine to me…even the tartan cloth is retro-cool. This might be one of the few cars that looks good in dark brown…some older Jags can pull off brown too, but that’s about it.
In the late 70’s/early 80’s Alfa and Fiat both had a metallic brown available on their Spiders that looks great with a tan top and tan interior.
The TR7/TR8 was one of those cars that could have benefited from body-coloured bumpers (similar to the later early-80s Triumph RT061 prototype that featured integrated body-coloured bumpers in MG: the Untold Story) as well as flying buttresses on the Fixed-head coupe.
Along with the Triumph Lynx 2+2 Coupe and 127 hp 2.0 Sprint variants, another potential What-If variant is a de-restricted version of the 136 hp 2.6 Rover SD1-Six engine that was capable of developing around 150-160 hp filling the gap between the 127 hp 2.0 Sprint and an uprated 190 + hp TR8.
A shame though that BL was never in a position to continue working with Saab in developing the Slant-4 engine, given the latter developed Turbocharged versions and later even developed a stillborn 250-300 hp 32v 4.0 Saab V8 (a distant relative to the infamous Triumph V8).
This is where it was built…..
How great would the automotive world be without organized labor?
LOL!
An uncle of mine bought an early example, perhaps 1978. He brought it to our house to show it off. He was playing with the lights, popping them up and down, when the dashboard wiring harness melted on to his lap.
He had it towed back to the dealer, got his money back, and bought a Scirocco.
Excellent read, Roger – thank you! Bookmarking this one for future reference. And I also love that yours is a sympathetic take on a car I’ve read only mostly negative things about. Always liked the styling of these – both the drop head and the fixed head. Even saw a few tooling around my GM hometown when they were new.
Another excellent story. I’ve always liked the style of the TR7 fixed head (hardtop) coupe over the drophead (convertible) version.
I am a fan of these, the drophead moreso, and, I know how sacrilegious this is, but I like these more than I do the Spitfires and the previous TRs. At least from a styling perspective, I understand the appeal that the previous roadsters have and I get why this is not as revered as its predecessors, but I’ve just never been a fan of the previous TRs styling. For that matter, I’ve never been a fan of British roadsters from any of the companies, they just never sat right with me as far as styling goes (Doesn’t help that whenever I see one, I always have the thought of “if I get in this car, I might break it in half”)
Now in terms of performance, I can understand why these cars might fall on their faces. If I were to take temporary leave of my senses and search for one, I would seek out the TR-8 model instead. (I always theorized that had Triumph at least had a V8 in this thing when it was first introduced, it might be more warmly received. But then again that was asking too much out of BL)
Triumph could have sold a bunch of these, but strikes at Speke slowed the production line long enough for word to spread that the quality of assembly was disastrous before initial demand was met. They were still pretty popular driveway ornaments due to initial sales success. Road & Track published an owner’s survey of TR7 victims. The results set the bar for statistical failure that stood for as long as anyone on the staff remembered the ’70s.
A coworker of mine traded his POS 79 Mustang for a new TR7 roadster in 80. As I recall the Triumph was white with the laurel wreath decal on the hood, black interior with dark green velour inserts on the seats.
He soon noticed that, as he rounded a corner at speed, something went Bang! in the back of the car. The dealer declared that all was well. Not being satisfied with that, as the bang persisted, he started pulling down the interior trim behind the driver’s seat to take a look. He discovered that the wheelwell stamping had never been welded to the outer fender stamping and it was the two stampings sliding against each other as the car flexed that made the noise.
BL had the temerity to declare not being welded together was not a “defect in materials and workmanship”. Gary eventually brought BL around to his way of thinking and the car was welded together.
Curiously, Gary was infected by the TR7 even worse than I was infected by my Renault, and, last I knew, his roadster had been joined by a second hand TR7 coupe and a TR8.
To quote Maxwell Smart, “missed it by that much!”. The styling is “almost there”, but never quite grabbed me. The initial styling drawings are fascinating, but much was lost in the translation to actual production. And not to impugn the designer, but the Austin Allegro and Princess were not parts of a design résumé that would make one look forward to the next thing off the drawing board. Reliability was indeed an issue, too, but GM sold a lot of Vegas with atrocious reliability, and MG and Triumph sold a steady number of cars with widely understood poor reliability and old school technology, as buyers found other attributes to the cars that made the purchases worth it anyway. There was just no single “thing” that made the car desirable, as far as I can tell.
The Mazda RX7 came out a few years later, and dimensions, weight, specs (other than the rotary engine), and the overall look and layout were very similar. Yet, the Mazda immediately sold out, and was a huge sales hit for years. All of the differences added up. The styling was cleaner and just “worked”, the owner’s early reliability experience, by and large, was much better, and the dealers, by and large, likely did a better job of addressing faults as they arose. And while rotary fans flocked to the car, there was another group of buyers who did not want mechanical novelty in the first place, or that had horrible experiences with earlier Mazda rotaries, and it appears that quality, support, and an overall attractive package won over quite a few.
So I would argue that there was no one thing that doomed the car, but that there were many elements that were marginally subpar, and no one attribute that stood out to drive sales or pride of ownership. I do wonder whether the car would have been more successful if BL had led with the convertible V-8 TR8, to set some sort of halo car element to the series, and then followed with coupes and four cylinder cars, for those who would then want to identify with the brand, but would compromise to suit their finances or specific motoring needs. After all, Ford sold a lot of six cylinder Mustang coupes under the halo of V-8 convertibles, and soon to follow 2+2 Fastbacks and Shelbys.
That’s a little unkind to Harris Mann. His Allegro proposal was somewhat better than the blob that was eventually released in public (after the bean-counters and the engineers had “tweaked” the styling). The Princess was largely stuck with Landcrab underpinnings and – this is a personal view, other opinions are valid – I’ve always thought it was a bit of a looker. I’ll have a Wolseley 2200 please, in an appropriate 70s brownish colour.
I was a bit unkind. If the production Allegro and Princess diverged as much from the drawings as the TR7 did, and in the same downward direction, then Mr. Mann was shortchanged. I notice a number of significant changes from the drawings. The unique way in which the wedge wrapped around the front wheels was replaced with a simple angled crease in the door panel in the production car. The side windows that wrapped into the roof in dramatic fashion were deleted as well (understandable, from production cost and safety engineering standpoints). The shape of the rear quarter pillar and angle of the rear window were changed from things that accentuated the sweep of the wedge, to angles that blocked it up instead. The big black bumper treatments at each end of the car destroyed the angularity and the accentuation of the sweeping wedge in those areas. The production car was a pale and uninspired dilution of Mr. Mann’s drawings as posted in the article.
Here’s one of Harris Mann’s initial Allegro sketches – borrowed from aronline.co.uk, of course, the go-to source for all UK motor stuff. “Sleek, characterful and good-looking.”
Source: http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/concepts/concepts-and-prototypes/concepts-and-prototypes-austin-allegro/
One piece of trivia I always thought was interesting was that the TR-7 was the model in the TR series that sold the most:
TR-2: 8,636
TR-3/3A/3B: 13,377 + 58,000 + 3,334 = 74,711
TR-4/TR-4A: 40,304 + 28,465 = 68,769
TR-5/TR-250: 2,947 + 8,480 = 11,427
TR-6: 94,619
TR-7/TR-8: 112,200 + 2,800 = 115,000
Having owned both a TR-4 and Spitfire, I went looking for a TR-7 about eight years ago. Despite the production numbers, they were thin on the ground compared to Spitfires, Midgets, TR-6s, and MG-Bs. Almost all were basket cases that had sat for a while – it seems that people were not selling nice ones, or perhaps not many nice ones existed.
It reminded me of what a former Triumph mechanic had told me. He was working for a shop that specialized in British cars in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and he told me that they always had two or three TR-7 engines in stock in the back room, since they had to replace them so often.
I almost bought one of the few presentable cars I saw, a TR-8 convertible that was in nice condition and not high mileage. It was miles more comfortable than my TR-4, had plenty of room, and the handling and power delivery was superior, so I was very interested. However, the owner wanted $10,000 for it, which seemed a bit high to me, given that the car needed some work, and when he would not budge on the price I went and bought a 2000 Miata with a hardtop for the same price.
I’ve been very happy with the Miata, and it was certainly a much more practical purchase – it doesn’t leak, after all. I’ve sometimes wondered if not buying the TR-8 was a mistake, as it is the cheapest V-8 British sports car, and I would occasionally see articles touting it as the next collectible car that would rapidly increase in price, as AC Cobras and then Sunbeam Tigers have done.
I just looked at Hagerty’s price guide, and it turns out that TR-8 prices have been flat for the last ten years, hovering just under $10,000 for an average condition car. Adjusted for inflation, that means that they are actually about 15% cheaper now than ten years ago.
Of course, it turns out the same was true for Sunbeam Tigers up until three years ago, with prices stable for years, and then almost doubling since 2012 for an average condition car, and more than doubling for a nice one. So perhaps the TR-8 will eventually get its day – buy one now and beat the rush.
These have an certain appeal in a Fawlty Towers-Brazil sort of “how can we do everything badly” sort of way….
I’ll take a brown TR8 roadster.
It was the right car but as ever for BL, too late and too little. The V8 should have been offered right from the start; an injected 16v Sprint engine might have helped too. But the worst thing was reliability which was just not there…
Very nice write-up. Great photos and ads. I owned a 1980 TR7 convertible, and despite the reputation, mine was actually a very good car. Great fun to drive, and a great autocrosser. Traded it in 1988 for an Acura Integra only because I needed more room. Today, if I could have either one back, it would be the TR7. And always on the lookout for a nice TR8.
TR7 and TR8 are both great value as a classic/enthusiast’s car
Girls LOVED them.
Once inside the TR7, most of them would melt on those long dark wet winter evenings, the TR7 had something cocooning, they felt at ease, that would soften things up !
The tartan seats, the long dash to the windshield, the car had something disarming, a lot of friends made the laughing stock of me with my old $ 1000 “French” blue TR7, but believe moi, I had the last laugh !
Some cars are more in need of a good defense than others, and you have come through for this one. Nicely done.
Few cars say “1970s” to me more than this one. And that is not really a good thing. I never cared for the styling or the “modern” interiors that were made of 98% black plastic. I always saw these as having all of the disadvantages of an English sportscar with none of the advantages.
I will say, though, that after reading this, you are making me think a little more of the TR-8 droptop. But from some of the comments above, I am not ready to trade my Miata for one.
Twenty years ago my rural Canadian neighbour bought a strange project. The previous owner had pulled the original aluminum engine from a TR8 convertible and shoe-horned an ordinary Chevy 350 and matching M21 4 spd in its place. My neighbour attempted to finish the project.
Then as now, I thought this was a desicration of a rare model. A large dose of weighty cast iron was not going to fix the cars shortcomings and would reduce the car’s value to nil.
In the end, the car would not even fuction properly. The front suspension was squashed, the handling was miserable and the rear end gearing was far too short for the transmission. In the end, the driveline was yanked and the rest of the car- which was pristine – was sent to the wrecking yard.
You know, I think the design has aged well (except for the tartan) and had the quality and the V8 option been there at the start things might have turned out differently.
Gotta say, both BL workers and BL management got what they deserved.
One of my co-workers has a TR7 stashed in his garage, I keep telling him that since we have empty space in the shop he should bring it in, we could do the body and paint in a week….
Update 6 years later. My co-worker gave his TR7 away rather than deal with it. I don’t know about in the UK but TR7s are practically worthless here.
I would never have condoned anyone buying a new TR7, but as a budget fun car with decent parts availability it has some charm.
Values here are pretty low, or good value depending on your POV
I had owned a 70 MGB purchased new before the first TR7 was introduced to the US. There was nothing going for the TR7 from the get go and most of all the horrendous body style. Yes it had a solid feel but very heavy for the power. I had a few TR8s as well and don’t believe for a minute that these cars were fast. They weren’t, but more valuable (relatively speaking) than the TR7s. Neither car is desireable today as they weren’t when new. Usually, the indicator of any car’s chance of becoming a classic is the new car sales popularity. Not many of these cars are available in well cared for condition, and if found are quite cheap. Go for them if you want but look for the TR8s first and make sure it’s well cared for and reasonable. Nice MGBs are worth more and TR6s even more in decent shape. Will the TR7s become more valuable in the future? I doubt they will appreciate much, but the TR8s will as they are much rarer. A good TR8 is a solid fun car if you happen to like the lines…
Roger, just want to clarify your Fiat X1/9 statement. I believe you may be referring to the Bertone X1/9 for the years 82-89. The Fiat X1/9 originally was in production from 72 until 82 when Fiat pulled out of the US. At that time Bertone continued production on its own. Not sure if this changes your production numbers or if you meant to say 72-89 for production years. As to the Triumph, I guess I am in the minority. I always preferred the TR7/8 styling to the older models. Maybe it was the age I was at when these were in production, but I even liked them more than the X1/9.
When I was a youngster in the early 80’s I had a toy version of one of these, a green FHC. And maybe that’s part of why I’ve always had a soft spot for the TR7. Plus I do like the styling overall, though better in convertible form and I think it would look better yet with painted bumpers, as here (photo from the web):
And then there are the Grinnall conversions, which extensively rework the car into something that looks more 90’s than 70’s. Taste is subjective but I rather like them:
I have always found these extremely ugly: too long front and rear overhangs, too high on its wheels and the awkward wedge shape was an enormous step back from its smooth, curvy predecessors.
A complete failure, that can nowadays be had for next to nothing.
I think I’ve finally figured out why I’ve never liked this car. Quite apart from the technical aspects – such a short wheelbase? Less power than a Dolomite Sprint? Weird roofline? Odd side scalloping? Yes, but….
The front end has no character. To look at, it’s just an ambulatory bumper. A deep black bar with lights set in. A railroad sleeper, with all the dynamism that implies. The Harris Mann sketch shows a bumper more pleasantly shaped in side view. Surely something more like that could have been legalized.
And someone must’ve thought that wasn’t enough black, because there’s another inch of black verticality above it. More black around the front edge of the headlight covers – why? Then an almost flat upper surface. There’s no sense of dynamism, of sport when viewed from this angle. In that, it doesn’t match the sides. Hidden headlights, great, but what’s with the strange chamfered front edge to the covers, and their odd shape? They’re almost Exneresque. I know I was asking for a bit of character, but that’s not what I had in mind. Give us oval headlight covers. Give us a scoop. Yes there are louvres, but they don’t really ‘read’ from a front view. And the centre bulge is so low as to almost be invisible.
But I do love that interior. Bright nicely-patterned fabric, and oh so seventies. I could live with that. Reskin it, and make it a hatchback like the GT6 and I might have been tempted. A coupe this size, and with a formal-ish roofline at that? Not for me.
It looks like a faceless ’70’s safe car proposal, two gigantic planks of bumper either end of a stumpy body with a cartoon ability to sproing up like an inchworm in the middle of that silly side slash when hit, and then flatten back down again.
It’s a rare design that manages to encompass blandness and active ugliness in one, and unlike others, I don’t like the beginning point in Mann’s sketch of this (or the Allegro) either. To me, BL started with something poor, and continued to the logical conclusion to which that pointed, the unhappy leading to the inevitable.
Tonight on Pluto TV Cars, an episode of “Cars that made Britain Great” was about their worst cars, featuring the TR7.
Fun to read again. Not much to add except I found a photo of my 1980 TR7 (by then perhaps many of the TR7’s issues were resolved; too late for Triumph but mine was a fun car that never let me down).
My brother’s long gone father-in-law once owned a dealership selling several British lines.
Before he passed he told me (on many occasions) he absolutely hated the TR-7 and cringed every time his dealership sold one.
I can still get my sister-in-law going when I ask her thoughts of the TR-7. Among other things, she said the “TR” stood for “tow truck recovery”.
My Dad’s best friend worked at a Triumph dealership and said they were total garbage. Having worked on so many of the things he said he could fix them with his eyes closed.
Other than that I heard it may have been a good car.
LOL.
A valiant undertaking, Sir Roger, but alas, I am not sold.
I will put aside, along with all the resale, the woeful name for reliability. I will partially deafen, and acknowledge that, in such a state, the engine provides the same sort of thrust as a swanky twin-cam in the Fiat 124 convertible. I will grant that the dashboard, despite its name for melting its internals upon the knees of the occupants, is a nice rendition of ’70’s Deutsch Sombre. And I will acknowledge that the dynamics were given near-universal mild approbation in their time (whilst also acknowledging that those same times gave only mild disapprobation to that alleged car also from Leyland, known as the Marina).
But still I cannot be sold. I would have to look at it when getting in to enjoy its mild pleasures. If it started. And it is unspeakable, and irredeemably so.
Harris Mann also polluted the high streets everywhere with the Allegro and Princess: I do not know how he ever got work thereafter. Wiki he says he went on to become a freelance consultant – which could also well be a euphemism for one who hangs around the job centre – and lectured at Coventry Uni on design. Whilst I wish my fellow man Mann no ill-fortune, it is to be hoped none of his class has graduated into the car industry.
On second thoughts, looking at the charm of styling today, they may well possibly all have got the top jobs. I digress.
One thing would leave me unsold even if all of the above was somehow fixable by some cosmic adjustment: the lines conspire to make the driver of the TR-7 coupe look for all the world as if he is driving whilst squatting low in the boot, and to be seen as if one is literally lying down on the job while driving is one final straw too many for me. That is, it is enough the car looks somewhat ridiculous. As the prospective owner, I don’t see why I should too.
Reading about British cars of the post war era is a depressing experience. I remember when the TR-7 came out, the ads on TV with parking in a wedge shaped garage, the buff mags tales of a much stiffer chassis. So many things could have been done better… alas.