(first posted 6/27/2015) At the car show outside of the World of Speed Museum last Saturday, I noticed that a modified Corvair was in a prominent parking slot and had the biggest crowd – around its engine compartment. As a lover of Corvairs, I needed to see what was going in there. I braced myself, preparing myself for something decidedly other than stock. I was partly right; it’s a highly modified Corvair engine, one of the most ambitious of its kind. But the real shocker is when the owner told me about his plans for a future engine swap.
As a prelude to the engine, I’ll show you the interior, which makes it very clear that this owner is very serious about his Corvair.
Under the front hood, there’s a bottle of nitrous oxide to perk up the engine further. This Corvair has received every possible suspension , steering and brake upgrade possible.
So here it is. At first glance, I was confused, because the Corvair engine’s dominant cooling fan cowl and pulley drive are…absent. Is this a real Corvair engine?
A closer look and an explanation by one of the owners cleared that up. This engine has a totally new cooling system, with two contra-rotating plastic fans driven by small electric motors. One fan runs while the engine is still pretty cool; the second one kicks as needed. Wow; pretty slick. regretfully, I failed to ask whether they had engineered and built this themselves, or if it was available commercially. A bit of Googling turns up lots of home-brew electric systems, but not this one, so I’m inclined to think they did it themselves. Impressive.
Update: It also appears to have fuel injection and a distributor-less ignition system.
The Corvair was always referred to as the poor man’s Porsche, and these folks have taken that to a new level: probably not all that poor, but this Corvair could probably dice it up with some of the older 911s. My hat was off to them.
But the last thing out of the owner’s mouth had me putting it back on in a hurry: “and for the next step, we’re planning to install a Porsche 911 engine”. What?!? After all that work, to create a one-of a kind Corvair, you’re going to drop in a 911 engine? How unoriginal and un-creative is that? Why not just a SBC? Or just buy a damn 911. And you’re not going to attract as many gawkers at the car show either.
No, I didn’t actually say that, but I sure though it. I’ve become a wee bit more restrained in my old age.
True blasphemy (but at least having some originality) would be a boxer engine out of a Subaru. They can be made to fit in VW Buses so I assume they can be made to fit in a Corvair. How about an H6 with 250 factory HP? That would certainly be much more aggressive than what it came with. 😛
That would be my approach.
The problem with the Subaru is the Corvair engine runs in the opposite direction of most engines. You would have 4 speeds in reverse, and one in forward. At least with the VW transaxle you can flop the ring gear to the other side of the ring gear.
At least he didn’t do this…
I’ve always found mid-engined Corvairs to be an example of, “Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.” But then again, I’m tall, and have never found one in which I could comfortably sit.
And please don’t get me started on front-engined conversions. GM offered those, fresh from the factory. They’re called Pontiac Tempests.
I agree. Unless the Corvair was designed from the beginning to be a mid-engined car, why make it a mid-engined car now?
Supposedly the conversion is uber-fast and quick. But yeah, I’d imagine it makes the car more of a toy than anything.
It’s possible. 🙂
I like it. Although I could do without the nitrous oxide, but I can see a Porsche boxer engine being installed into a Corvair. Sweet! 🙂
If the corvair engine is working it needs to be left there. Unless it’s for competition I don’t see gaining enough by performing any standard engine swap. It seems there is enough base power there that if they want a sleeper, a turbo is the natural answer. Too many engines lean out on nitrous and blow. An air cooled engine is even more susceptible. Too bad none of our opinions matter and I hope he is having fun.
And if it’s gone entirely I’d just wait until Bolts start getting cheap enough to give their EV powertrains up for swaps.
I can’t tell for sure, but it looks like this Corvair has distributorless ignition and something that has only recently been available in kit form, fuel injection.
When I had my Corvair, I always dreamed of it having its engine transformed into something as driveable and efficient as what’s in a newer car. Yes, I respect how GM’s engineers did things mechanically in the ’60s. But for some reason, automobile carburetors and I don’t have the best relationship, and when you have two that need to be synchronized, I’m going to lose the battle. Small, four-stroke engines? I can clean and adjust the carbs in those all day.
Again, I’m not carping about automobile carburetors, and not looking for a lesson on how I can finally break through my mental block with them…just acknowledging one of my DIY limits! 🙂
In looking at the pictures, I came to the same conclusion, about FI, but I didn’t ask, and I never really looked under that air cleaner. I’m assuming it’s a TBI-type unit, since there aren’t enough ports for a port-type system.
It was clear to me that this engine has been modernized in every conceivable way possible, which makes the choice of swapping in a 911 engine that much more odd.
I could see someone starting a Corvair project, and ditching the tired stock engine for a Porsche, but this engine deserves to stay where it is; it’s earned its place there. 🙂
Unless they’re trying to make well north of 300 HP, just adding a turbo does seem like a much better idea. Though I don’t know if I’d call a 911 boxer swap unoriginal… I’ve certainly never heard of a Porsche-powered Corvair…
You sure he wasn’t just yanking someone’s chain about the Porsche engine swap? Someone willing to go to those extremes to keep a Corvair drivetrain relatively intact (albeit highly modified), then to just throw it all away for something not nearly as unique doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
I wish; it was not said (to me) in jest.
Maybe unintentionally expressed body language convinced him to keep what it has. I can’t imagine hearing that without cringing.
Unless this engine has a nice, impressive list of components but doesn’t actually work all that well together. Instead of debugging it the owner somehow thinks swapping to a whole different engine will sort out all his woes. Odd.
I agree – that engine has earned the right to stay there. And, I have seen pix of a Porsche-powered Corvair before, so this wouldn’t be the first.
Timely post! The Corvair Society of America’s annual convention ends today — I returned home yesterday. Lots of wild setups (V8s (215-427), fuel injection), but my favorite was the Corvair autocrosser with a Buick 3800 supercharger mounted on top of the flat six.
Other highlights include the only Corvair from the Lanbrecht Chevrolet auction that was stored indoors (a ’63 Monza coupe), and a decades-old Corvair-powered personnel carrier that runs on treads.
Overall, this year’s convention, which was held in Knoxville, was scads of fun. My ’65 Corsa 140 convertible made the round trip from the Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC without a hitch.
I once visited the house of a rather famous folk artist. He had died ten years earlier and, because his house was one of his works of art the place had been turned into a museum. Like much folk art, almost every surface of the place was covered with either painted or applied decoration. He had just started decorating it with bottle caps, paint and whatever else caught his eye and he didn’t stop until he died.
Hot rodding strikes me as a kind of folk art, especially the less restrained examples. Lots of chromed parts and pinstriping and the whole perpetual, extemporaneous nature of the process. Low riders are good examples of the folk art genre.
So, if you look at it this way, the idea of sinking ten grand or so into a motor and then hauling it out only to replace it with something very similar makes sense.
wow, that is about the best way of describing hotrodding that I have seen. For many, it’s not about the destination but about the journey and that is why so many rodders build cars and then sell them at or near a loss. You are right too about how most hotrodders are self-trained and not versed in automotive or art design and so what they create is not bound by those genre and you end up with the wild creations that you see at every car show. Not always the best in taste, but you have to love the vision and dedication to it.
I know that this reply is six years after the fact but I have to complement you an realizing that hot rodding is a type of folk art. Quite perceptive. I have known guys who can never stop working on their boats. I think they would prefer to work on the boat instead of putting in the water and actually using it. I guess this would qualify as a type of folk art too.
@CCFAN :
With se Rat Rods this is also true : they’re not making fake patina, they’re never quite satisfied and always tinkering away at it, I like this even if some Rat Rods look scruffy .
-Nate
I get that. And I have a lot of respect for the creative process involved. It’s just to it struck me as much less creative do swap in a 911, after developing a very unique engine. But to each their own.
The owner/builder is one hell of a craftsman from what Im seeing. I cant see why he’d want to scrap this setup after the work he’s put into it but at the same time its HIS car. But at the same time, maybe for him the real push is to constantly build and mod his ride as opposed to just driving it. Either way, nice find!
I don’t normally go for ‘upsized’ wheels, but these rallyes actually work as 17’s. I think theyre 17’s, anyway.
Yes, I suspect that you nailed it.
My uncle is the same way with houses – he’s never really happy unless he’s changing something (remodeling, adding on, or building another new one). He has sold some fantastic homes that he has built over the decades – to each his/her own!
Neat build. Reminded me of the V12-powered ‘Jaguair:’
https://www.corvaircorsa.com/V-12-01.html
If I was going to do any engine swap on this, it would be a Continental aircraft air cooled flat six. Why get off in Chicago when you are going to New York??
Wonder if there are any spare Tucker engines lying around?
That’s a good one….wasn’t that supposed to be a Continental engine? I seem to remember (like the AMC Pacer) the Tucker was supposed to get a different engine than the one it eventually shipped with. Maybe AMC would have been known for rotaries as well as Mazda?
Speaking of rotaries, in a similar vein, one of my friends inherited a 1961 NSU Prinz from his father. Apparently his father wanted it for a project where he was going to use the engine for something else (a tractor, I think). I know the Prinz didn’t have a rotary (a few years in the future in a larger model) but couldn’t resist the connection.
Not sure why one would pick an obscure car to use the engine for a project…if it is short term, I guess OK, but getting any parts are going to be a nightmare. Maybe if you had an NC controlled mill where you could fabricate some of what you needed, but I’d guess there’s stuff like bearing races that might still be difficult, and if the original item is destroyed, what do you use as a model for dimensions?
Anyhow, a friend of his is slowly restoring the Prinz to what it was (probably a better idea) but I don’t really think the owner is particularly interested in it.
If he does make the swap to a 911 engine then he will have made it official and that is the transformation from Corvair to Bastard.
Judging by the existing mill, any 911 that might end up in this thing is unlikely to look much like stock once installed there.
I’ve always wondered why nobody has apparently bothered to install a Mazda rotary engine in a Corvair-with it’s small size and light weight I would think it would make for a very interesting conversion. I remember reading an article in Hot Rod many years ago about the installation of a Buick aluminum V-8 into a Corvair; I remember the article stated the Buick engine weighed less than the air cooled engine.
Took the words out of my mouth about the Rotary! Maybe the cooling system would be too much of an issue?
The rotary has been swapped into the VW Beetle many times over the years so it should be very do-able in a Corvair too.
Gomogdotcom lists the Corvair engine at 300lbs and Buick 215 at 318-324lbs- pretty close, but I’m certain the Corvair weight includes the entire cooling system while the Buick does not. Perhaps the swappers used some lightening tricks, or perhaps they stretched the truth about the weights a wee bit.
If the goal is to have an engine compartment that draws attention at car shows the 911 power plant is going to miles ahead of a Corvair unit. Distributorless, EFI electric cooled Corvair engines have been around for some time now and there are probably a dozen common ways to do it.
Does anyone remember that the Corvair crankshaft turns the other way?
I’m with you, Paul. but to keep it “all-GM”, why not add on a couple of cylinders and make it a flat-8? A fair bit of engineering involved, but that would really be a crowd-puller. Hmm….. guess a 911 conversion would be way cheaper.
How about putting in there a pancake 4 or 6 from a Scooby?
The potential power and more gears make a 911 engine/trans swap seem like a logical upgrade. He probably is the type that just likes to experiment and change things around to suit his whims. What he has now is really cool though. Probably just not as fast as he would like it.
I have to agree; it would be sacrilege to pull that engine in favor of a Porsche mill, UNLESS, MAYBE, the intention is to mount the engine into another Corvair for the purpose of further experimentation.
It appears that the fuel is injected into a single centrally located throttle body that feeds mixture through four long pipes. This is basically the FI equivalent of a fairly common Corvair mod that involves a single centrally located Quadrajet in the same position. I have heard that some of the people who have installed that setup have removed it due to chronic cold-engine and low-speed drivability issues. It has to do with the long pathways involved. Wonder if the TBI setup has the same issues.
I like this car ~
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Get rid of all the ” HEY !! LOOK AT ME !! ” crap and chrome , keep the mechanical up dates and run the living hell out of it as a sleeper .
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I too love Corvairs and greatly enjoyed mine .
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Until you’ve driven one , you’ll never understand why they’re so popular after all these decades .
-Nate
I agree. There’s “bling”, and then there’s *BLING!* No thanks. Unless it came from the factory that way, why should anything be added now?
Why? Because the world would be a boring place if every vehicle was left factory stock. VERY boring. And not one I’d want to live in.
I think it needs a sideways supercharged 3800 in a Fiero subframe stuffed in the back seat…
IIRC, the built-in cooling fan for the engine uses in excess of 15hp at nominal [5500rpm] redline. Even allowing for electric fan motors being 30% more efficient than an IC engine, I don’t see a 10hp or 2x5hp electric motors in that engine bay, so that engine isn’t going to hold together for any kind of highway run, probably not even more than a 1/4 mile with the nitrous.
Ignoring the 3 Laws of Thermodynamics doesn’t get you anywhere except the junkyard. Lots of show here, not much go…
I can only wait till Paul catches sight of the 66 corvair convertible powered by a caddy north star V8 complete with wait for it. Located just south of Eugene .
140hp, four-carb, big valve Corvair heads tend to drop valves when turbocharged. Perhaps that’s the reason behind the 911 engine swap.
What’s the small air filter on the right for, and why are there only 2 intake tubes per side for a 6 cylinder engine?
A filter for the crankcase breather, I believe.
The Corvair 140 hp engine had twin carbs on each side, so the “manifold” was essentially inside the heads. The lower powered engines only had on intake hole.
That’s a crankcase inlet air “filter”, in quotes because like the one on the carburetor it’s a gauze item—looks like a generic version of K&N’s pretend “filters” that don’t actually keep abrasive dirt out of the engine. These are sold as “performance upgrades”. They aren’t. (Yes, this is a pet rant of mine)
Since this first appeared, CC-in-scale has been busy….. 🙂
Sorry, just a nicely-detailed Corvair motor in this one,
That colour is YES!
The colour’s a happy accident.
And it’s a Corvair-powered Corvair too! 🙂
This post is originally from 2015. Wonder if the owner went through with his plans to swap in a Porsche engine.
Also, in most Corvair circles there is a lot of skepticism about replacing the belt driven cooling fan with electric fans. Apparently, the electrical load to power a fan of adequate capacity necessitates a huge alternator, and even then it’s marginal at best.
Diesel powered reefer unit?
Corvair + Porsche = Varicose Porch
Years ago at the drags I saw a Corvair make an impressive pass.
I don’t recall the exact ET or hundreds of feet of wheel spin. lol
When the driver returned to the pits I asked him:
“WOW! What are you running?!?”
His reply: “I don’t know. Whatever came in a ’67 Toronado, Maybe you can tell me?”
He opened the trunk to reveal a dirty old as-removed 425. Lol
I’ve often thought someone (not me, certainly) should put a Corvair engine in the front of a Rope Drive Tempest.
Yes I am that weird.
Turning circle might be a problem.
I’m not an engineer so I don’t know if there are inherent performance limitations with the Corvair engine design. I do know that GM had heat issues with it when they upped the performance.
So, maybe this guy eventually discovered the same thing as the Corvair engineering team, and decided the only direction left he could go was Zuffenhausen. If that’s the case, well, at least he gave it his best shot with the OEM drivetrain.
Corvair engine cooling blowers are driven by a mule-drive fan belt, much like the belts on mower decks. They work fine when adjusted properly, but if not, they can be thrown especially when the engine is subjected to power shifting and fast downshifting. Of course, when the belt is out of commission, so is the cooling blower, and this leads to a cooked engine if it’s not shut down quickly.
Over the years, some folks replaced the stock system with electric fans, but as mentioned above, the fan motor would need to be huge to provide the cooling capacity of the stock system. At one time, a vendor sold an electric fan kit, but it failed to provide sufficient engine cooling when tested.
There are two alternatives, however. One is an improved blower designed by compressor guru named Kevin Nash. Although it uses the stock mule-drive belt, it consumes much less power to drive it while delivering much more cooling air, thus negating the belt problem.
Another alternative is to replace the entire stock system with a vertical blower, much like those used on VW Beetle engines. Guys who do vintage racing with their Corvairs use them, but they’re not suitable for street use. Attached is a photo of a track-prepared Corvair engine with the vertical fan.
Oddly, some of the Porsche 914 guys have adapted the stock Corvair cooling system layout, complete with the mule-drive belt, to their Type 4 engines!
And here’s a photo of the Kevin Nash engine cooling blower mentioned in my previous post.