Ford tried to position its Lincoln Mark VII LSC to compete against the hottest German coupes, BMW’s 6-series and M-B’s 500-series. It had to be a clever ruse, as the LSC’s $25,000-ish sticker was way, way south of either of those Deutsche supercoupes. Nothing like comparing yourself to a car you can’t really compete with to raise your brand’s cachet. That’s not to say that the LSC wasn’t a plenty desirable car in 1988. It’s just that it was better framed as a 5.0 Mustang for wealthy adults.
The LSC’s standard mechanical features were a checklist of everything anybody could ever have wanted on an ‘80s American car, emphasis on American, starting with the fuel-injected 225 HP 5.0 V8 from the Mustang GT. At 3,700 pounds, the LSC outweighed the GT by 350 pounds, so I’d expect the LSC not to have as much grunt. And while you could get a 5-speed Mustang, the LSC came only with Ford’s AOD automatic.
But the LSC had to ride a lot better with its eight inches of extra wheelbase over the Mustang, plus its MacPherson struts up front, solid rear axle with gas-pressurized shocks and a sway bar out back, and auto-leveling air springs all around. And it had to stop with authority on its vented four-wheel disc brakes. The LSC even came standard with anti-lock brakes, which was still kind of a big deal in the late 80s.
I don’t know for sure that this is an ’88. The LSC’s visible changes were subtle at best from year to year. I know it’s at least an ’86, as that was the first year for both the CMHSL that’s barely visible through the dark tinted glass and the Lincoln badge over the front driver’s-side headlight.
That super dark window tint prevented me from seeing anything inside that might help me date this car, such as the driver’s-side airbag and revised instrument panel that were new in ’90. I’m saying 1988 almost entirely because that was the first year for the 225-HP 5.0, and that’s the engine I want this car to have.
I was surprised not only to find this LSC parked near my favorite watering hole, but also with paint in such good shape. My memory is that when these were all used cars on their third owners, the clear coat was peeling off of them all. I’ve even heard that a class-action lawsuit led to Ford repainting a lot of those for free. Maybe this was one of them. Regardless, this car’s chunky looks are still good after a quarter century.
Related Reading: We shared a comprehensive history of the Mark VII here.
Those Lincolns were pretty OK when they came out. I don’t remember thinking of them in the same brain corner as the BMW’s and such, but rather as a more sensible American Luxo coupe compared to their recent forebears. They do stand up pretty well, although the need for them to whisper about a possible spare tire location must be understood in context of the Mark II and all those continental kitted ’50s customs.Then there was always the aesthetic of the Pseudo Formal Radiator Grille on a swoopy coop, and whether it was the best option to say, “Think Bentley”. Still, they were pretty refreshing.
I’ve never seen a Lincoln car of any type with a spoiler, and a tire Continental hump, (I think that’s what it’s called) Man does this look soooo tacky! Also, I never knew this Lincoln was a gussied-Up Ford Mustang! 🙂
Decidedly unoriginal, that spoiler 😀
The Autuzone xenon blue fog lights are unfortunate, especially the inboard lights are fog lights a la Mercedes, if I recall. The rims and even spoiler are cool with me, for a mild hot rod Lincoln theme- but I would go original.
Were the headlamp covers glass or clear resin? They look great. I see much newer cars with yellowed glazed covers, with modern material science this is inexcusable. Thankfully they actually got the govt OK in time to use them, unlike the T-bird/Cougar.
No the inboard lights are turn signals. Mark VII optional fog lights were mounted around the same spot as the Advance Auto fog lights but were bigger and had covers that you put on them when not in use to protect them.
Thanks, learn something everyday. That’s a good design, seems like they would be easier for perpendicular street drivers to see at 4-way stop sign intersections and from rear view mirrors. Many designs are excessively outboard, small and low. Maybe because they are unlikely to be used!
Your rims look better, by the way. The BBS look is timeless.
Whoa… that looks exactly like the ’90 LSC I once owned. nice.
I completely missed the spoiler. The thinness and color of the blade make it disappear in the pics. I thought the two support points were refections.
It’s actually more a gussied up ThunderCougar.
And that’s a bad thing? All an Eldo was back then was a gussied up Riv/Toro.
Throttle back there a bit Hondo….
ABB posted that “they never knew that the Mark VII was a gussied up Ford Mustang”
When its not…..its a gussied up ThunderCougar.
Relax.
Thats true. I have always thought of the Mark VII as a Aero T-Bird on steroids. The all black ones look mean looking.
I was just pointing that out, that’s all 🙂 .
No prob.
I always did like these in LSC trim, hey even James Bond drove one of these down in the Keys in 1989’s License to Kill.
Hey now, it’s a gussied up 80-82 ThunderCougar! Marks strangely used the 108 inch wheelbase rather than the 83 Tbirds shortened 104.
That is what I was thinking. Unholy crap in hell, you couldn’t get a spoiler from the factory, could you?! Yuck.
Hell to the no. No factory spoiler was ever available, because of a)what you see here where it doesn’t interact well with the hump and b)it doesn’t fit the car’s image anyway.
I didn’t think so, because a spoiler on something like this has tasteless aftermarket crap written all over it.
The Lincoln itself is a sweet ride.
Aside from a bad choice of wheels (and who decided that spoiler was a good idea?) this one looks pretty well preserved.
I got to spend an evening driving one of the first ’84s when they came out, as a buddy of mine’s family owned a F-L-M store. It was pretty quick, quiet, and handled quite well; I was impressed. Also loved the composite headlamps, in their first US appearance.
Without a doubt one of my favorite cars from my favorite decade. The exhaust tips sticking out the way they do and the fogs up front (changed on this car) make it the only Mark to have a factory hot-rod Lincoln look. Black is by far the best color on these.
It’s a shame about the aftermarket wheels. Things like that pose such a dilemma when someone walks up to me when I am checking out their car. Do I acknowledge them, and if so negatively, or be polite and keep my mouth shut? One thing I cannot do is say something like “nice wheels”. It would really kill me if the guy just got the car and thought I was some sort of car neophyte or tasteless idiot.
As cool as this car is it would be even cooler with a stand up hood ornament, even on the LSC.
‘LSC’ could have stood for ‘Last Super Car’. ‘Super Car’ was one of those Detroit marketing terms they preferred over ‘musclecar’ back in the day. To that end, many consider the 1955 Chrysler C300 to be the first musclecar (although some would argue it was actually the 1949 Olds Rocket 88).
Regardless, the LSC fit the mold of the 300-letter series perfectly: a performance engine in a sporty, RWD luxury coupe. The problem was the market just didn’t exist anymore for big, muscle coupes with no built-in nostalgia. At least it went out with a bang, considering that the LSC was one of Detroit’s better efforts in that demographic.
My uncle drove one of these. It was preceded by (in order from my earliest memory), a Ford XL convertible, two generations of Toronados, and an aero Audi 5000. Each large, each stylish in its own way.
To use today’s jargon, they all had a bit of swag. Today’s big luxury cars are remarkable feats of engineering, but does any of them have the swag of an LSC or a Toro?
Do bear in mind that it didn’t actually “go out” for another generation. There was an LSC version of the Mark VIII which was up 70 horsepower on these from the 32V DOHC version of the 4.6 V8. But yes…taking together the VII and VIII, which were the only Lincolns to have LSC trims…they did go out with a bang. 🙂
And others would argue the 1936 Buick Century. Same difference, Special body and chassis with the Roadmaster engine. And by 1941 you could get dual carburetors.
I really like the Mark VII, especially in black, but the dark tint windows, aftermarket rims, and cheap-looking spoiler ruin this one. Give me an all-original with peeling paint instead!
Here is a classic example of a spoiler living up to its name.
Well spoken!
Had a ’90 LSC some years back, white with a slate blue interior. Wish I’d have never sold it. What a car she was.
Yep – the wheels and spoiler are nasty – otherwise a great looking car.
These still catch my eye today.
I wasn’t driving age when the Mark VII first came out, but these cars, the new Thunderbird, and the Mustang GT were better than you think. The Mark VII wasn’t priced like a BMW e24 or Mercedes w126 SEC, and certainly is far from them in beauty, inside or out. But the e24 was pretty smog-choked at this point. The top Mercedes was the 500SEC, and I think it would have been around 220-230 hp in the US. (I think the convertible was still using the silky, gutless 3.8 engine then.) The Mark VII proposition was probably 75% of the fun (110% on straight roads with smooth pavement), half the price, and a quarter of the prestige.
That may not have worked for everybody, but it’s not dumb, either. What it seemed to mean was that, between Fox Mustang, Aerobird and Mark VII, Ford wasn’t going to build stupid cars any more. And for the most part, Ford put on one of the least stupid decades by a major automaker since 1970, until nobody stopped the Mondeo. The Mark VII was a gutsy part of it, since the Mark formula hadn’t evolved in any way since 1969.
Yeah, for the price, it made a reasonable amount of sense.
In ’84-85, the Federalized 500 SEC was rated at 184 hp. The 560 SEC, which followed was rated at 238.
In contrast, the Mark VII LSC had 180hp in ’85, which was bumped up to 200 hp in 86 with sequential fuel injection. With the FT7E heads, revised cam and intake that came on board in ’87, horsepower ballooned to 225.
So the Mark VII was never far off the mark in terms of horsepower, (no pun intended). Its shortfalls to the SEC and 6 came in terms of refinement, but hey, what do you expect for half off!
Unless the dash is covered, the VIN plate will tell you the model year — 10th digit is a letter or number starting with A for 1980 and skipping I, O, Q, U, and Z, then starting at 1 for 2001.
It’s worth noting that Ford also kept much more traditional Mk VII’s in the lineup just to cover all their bases. For example, there was still a Bill Blass edition with a stand-up hood ornament. Those versions also got a softer suspension. It would be interesting to know the breakdown between the sales of the LSC and the other cars.
I can tell you that a few years in the 1980’s the price for the LSC and the Blass editions were the same price according to my Ford book. The base Mark VII was dropped by 1987 due to the reality that nobody was buying it(if you had money to spend on Lincoln Mark VII then you went big or went home) When I get home I will consult the book for figures.
At some point later in the run (’89 or ’90 maybe?) they also did away with the lo-po V8, and both BB and LSC got the 225hp HO version. So in the end the only real differences were suspension tuning, stand-up hood ornament, badging and maybe rear gearing (but I’m not 100% sure of that).
There was also the SE for ’90-’92, which was really just a trim package, but it made the already sharp looks even better!
To my eyes, this car looks waaaaay more dated than any fox body Mustang (not that those Mustangs look particularly “modern”).
Wait until the current crop of LED outlined, oversized wheel, bangle imitators are 30 years old. To describe them dated will be an understatement.
Magazine reviews called it a hot rod Lincoln. I was shopping for Mustang at the time and looked at it. Salesman didn’t think I was Lincoln material (which I wasn’t and probably still not) so I was not able to get a test drive.
I remember that. I also saw a review that said it was the first Lincoln in a generation that would spin the tires.
I want to say that this might be an earlier car, I can’t see a 3rd brake light against the rear window.
I was thinking the same, I way be wrong again, but It also seems like the tail lights and some other details were revised slightly on later LSC era examples, along with the AWOL Libby light. Plus Ford usually does mid-cycle refreshes. I’m not even sure if the LSCs had a Mark VII emblem on the trunk, and the font is fishy. I can’t tell if there’s dual exhaust, but that can easily be added by a cloner.
I think all of these actually had duals, even the Bill Blass/base models, I remember taking a Bill Blass in on trade and it had duals, they were the down-turned discreet kind like on a Town Car though.
I wish that style would come back, four cylinder Altimas and such look silly with their ricerish oversized one pipe sourced duals.
There is a Lincoln Mark VII club with a gallery. What seems to be generally true is that the Mark Vii was on the right side of the trunk lid on early Mark Vii’s and then shifted to the left side around 1986 with Lincoln on the right side. I don’t know if this is completely consistent though.
I bought one; it was targeted at a buyer like me.
I liked Mercedes and BMW coupes. My trade was a ’79 Mercedes 280CE and it was still the current body style when this car was introduced in ’84. I ordered an ’86 LSC in black with black interior and it was a much nicer car to drive than my 280CE – a reasonably sized steering wheel and V-8 power. Never used the sun roof on the Mercedes so I ordered the Lincoln without and did not miss it.
One feature of the LSC I enjoyed was the push button locking system on the left door. I’d simply leave my keys in the car (and therefore never loose them), lock the door by hitting (as I remember) the last two buttons and punch in the code when I returned. My wife’s new Explorer has this feature and it is useful to many drivers.
Banker’s hot rod indeed. Subtle car at the time and satisfying to own.
Yes if the Mark VII had a competitor at Mercedes it would have been the 280CE or later 300CE not an SEC. Just because the Mark and SEC were the top of their lines doesn’t mean they competed, not when the Lincoln price was a fraction of the MB. I’ve seen people make the same mistake with other domestic luxury cars, like saving the original Seville was a competitor of the S-class when it was priced more like the 280E.
I really wanted one of these when they came out, but they were beyond my price range. In 1989 I had a house payment, a 66 Fury III daily driver and a garage full of 61 T Bird and 29 Model A. I suppose I could have swung a Mark VIII, but I might have been back in an apartment with no fun old cars to fill things out.
I knew a guy who bought one of the first ones. Same guy who was the first I knew to have a bag phone. The car was black, just like this and I was in love with it. Somehow, in all the years since when I have bought cars of this general age, one of these never crossed my path.
It’s sort of similar to me right now. I got a LeSabre with cold out for winter, a Lincoln Mark VIII and a Plymouth Volare in storage building. I dont really need to upgrade to a 02-05 Tbird with sacrifice on too much.
Ah, the bag-phone. Those are high-tech memories similar to remembering first computers. I had one in my 1987 Ranger I kept between the bucket seats and I’ll never forget how futuristic it was to call on the way into work to say I’d be late due to traffic.
I only kept that bag-phone for maybe a year or two (actually got some money back for it when I returned it, too). I thought I was being really slick, since the phone had an Ohio phone number and I commuted from Indiana. But that all ended when I wised up and just moved to Ohio.
It would be another decade before I returned to the cellphone world and I’ve been without a land-line ever since.
Heh! I still have my bag phone. It’s a Motorola (but I forget which model). I got it in 1996, back when I still had a Yugo in the fleet. Nothing was more amusing than answering a phone call in traffic. I think I may have blown a few minds answering a cell phone while driving a Yugo!
I had the good fortune to roadtest an 88 LSC for a magazine article back then. My wife and I took the well equipped Mark out of the city for the weekend. It cruised with ease at 120 km/ph and was a nice car around town. Not too big and super comfortable.
I wouldn’t hesitate buying one of these if the price was right and the car well cared for. It was an “adult” oriented performance car. Absolutely wonderful!
I think, based on the rear badges, that this car is newer than 1986.
Probably the best looking American car of the 80s and at last a Lincoln that wasn’t the size of an aircraft carrier.If I had the money,time and space and the right car came along I’d have one
I keep imagining an LSC with a Coyote, a six-speed, and a Terminator Cobra IRS. THAT would be a gentleman’s hotrod for sure!
Wiki says a BMW Diesel was offered, & also that Jack Roush Performance had a tricked-up version with 351 etc. That might’ve lifted it out of the Mustang performance envelope, CAFE notwithstanding.
The diesel was a rare option in the first couple years, then disappeared as it was feeble compared to even the non-HO V8 cars. I *think* it was a 2.8 V6 or I6, and didn’t make a whole lot of power. They’re extraordinarily rare today.
The Roush-tuned version you’re thinking of sounds like the GTC, which wasn’t an official model but could be purchased as a package through Roush. Not many were made, even less with the 351 (there were multiple “stages” IIRC) but definitely a barn-burner.
It was a 2.4 L six, as used in the 524td and the Vixen motorcoach.
Bustleback Continentals got the BMW diesel too, they seem a tad more common than the Marks with them.
I found an archived circa 83 Popular Mechanics article about the BMW diesel powered Lincolns. They were planned to be also offered for the Town Car, but I found zero information about one ever existing. Probably Ford realized they would have been embarrassed by tired 220D’s.
I never knew that they were going to be offered on a Town Car, they were turbo diesels, so they probably weren’t that slow, not 240 slow, at least.
The BMW diesel was offered in the Continental, in ’83 and ’84. No worries about Mercedes 220Ds, these BMW turbodiesels made 114 hp and a 155-162 ft.lbs of torque, which was more than double that of the 220/240D.
Thats what I thought, they probably weren’t that bad, but I couldn’t think of a domestic buyer that would have probably been more averse to a diesel than a Lincoln buyer….especially after the Oldsmobile diesel problems.
That is correct. My 1985 524td had the 2.4 inline-six turbo diesel rated at 114 hp and 155 ft.lbs. I seem to recall reading its promotion by the manufacturer as “…the world’s fastest diesel.” Probably a little overzealous, but it was no 240D. The original owner’s literature listed a 0-50 (fifty) mph sprint of 10.7 seconds, top speed at 106 mph. Said literature also included dietary and exercise recommendations for long “journeys” complete with pictographic representations of figures engaged in the recommended exercises. Ahhh…when the ultimate leasing machine still had some character.
Anyway, these were cool cars and remain very appealing. Our veterinarian bought one new in I think 1988. Yeah, definitely the mature Mustang GT. To spay or neuter is not a cheap question.
IIRC, the BMW diesel that was offered was the same 2.5 straight six out of the then current 5 series.
I think that Bob Bondurant had an LSC with a 5 speed installed in it as “company car” from Ford when Bob used Fords at his driving school.
While probably, somewhere in the world, there is a car on which chrome rims look good, I have never seen one yet (and I doubt I ever will). This Lincoln is no exception.
The same goes for spoilers.
This Lincoln is a basically a good-looking car but it needs to lose the spoiler and have the rims replaced with factory originals.
Beautiful car minus the owner(s) “improvements”. If you’re going to put fogs on one of these for the love of god just go to the junkyard and get some proper Marchals for it!
All this Thunderbird and Lincoln discussion is playing tricks in my mind…to the point where I want to take an MKZ, cut down the length, clean up the front end, call it a Thunderbird and reuse the MKS ad from 5 years ago that promoted a high tech, high performance image.
…but soon, sanity is restored, as I remember how I’ve been bitten by the last 3 Fords I have had.
Oh! Those wheels! My eyes! My eyes!
This one was at Dahl Ford last year. I think it looked great with the Mark VIII wheels.
Now ^that is a good look. Same wheels I had on my VIII, and I always loved the design, though this is the first time I’ve seen them on a VII. I wonder how one would look with the Octastars from the facelift VIII…
But yeah, the spoiler, rims, and parts-store fogs on the featured car are pretty terrible. Especially considering how good shape the paint is in. Nonetheless, you can tell somebody loves it, which is extremely important to a car like this that isn’t old enough to be percieved as a classic, but is old enough to not be worth much. Far better clean, shiny, and afflicted with some tacky accessories than used/abused as a cheap beater or raided for parts to fix up Yet Another Mustang.
Definitely one of Detroit’s best efforts of the 80’s overall. A more luxurious (though admittedly not as powerful) alternative to a Grand National, and a better car than the contemporary Eldorado in almost every right. I was just a kid when these were in production, but I always wanted one. Maybe someday as a classic? Maybe. My ideal one would be a ’92 LSC SE in black.
There’s some major wtf’s there, the Mark VII used the very common(and still most common) 4.5″(114.3mm) x 5 bolt pattern, while the Mark VIII used the now somewhat obscure Taurus 4.25″(108mm) x 5 pattern. It’s relatively easy to convert the Mark VIIIs to the old school 4.5″ pattern by using SN95 front hubs and 99-04 Cobra rear hubs, but going the other way with a Mark VII is pretty much a impossible without a huge hassle since there were never any solid axle shafts or integrated hub/rotor setups the Mark VII used in the 4.25″ pattern. I’d assume it’s using hub adapters but the wheels don’t look like they stick out to the point I’d expect.
I’ve been meaning to write up that car. It had Mark VIII buckets and a five speed stick too!
Yes but the Mark VIII used high offset wheels just like the FWD Taurus it stole the bolt pattern from so there is room for adapters w/o affecting the overall installed offset significantly.
My best friend’s Dad bought a used 1986 LSC, black with tan leather, 49,000 miles, in the summer of 1990 and kept that car for over 10 years. He loved it and still talks about it to this day. He said it was very advanced for its time, way ahead of the competition in many regards. He replaced an aging 1980 Buick Riviera that he had loved too, and was afraid that he may not like the Lincoln. But the Lincoln totally surpassed his expectations. It was always a very reliable car. It was around 2002 that it started to give him serious electrical problems so he replaced it with another Lincoln, a front drive 1998 Continental. Surely not the same as the Mark, he also kept it for 12 years but he still says the LSC was the best car he ever owned.
Great looking car, even today. Back at that time, I didn’t have the cubic dollars to buy one, and before long I had the whole “married with kids” lifestyle anyway.
I’ll have to add one of these to my MM garage…
Get rid of that ridiculous spoiler and play up the spare tire hump, it’s like they were afraid to even suggest it had one!
No, these guys were afraid to play up the spare hump…
I’m one of the few that likes those Mopar 2 doors.
I once had a 88 T-bird LX 5.0 with 155 hp. Champagnecolored, all options. It wasn’t fast, but it’s the most comfortable and I think quietest road car that I ever had. The fuel consumption at highwaydriving was pretty good too. I will think these Lincoln is much the same, only better in every way than the T-bird was. You could just set the cruisecontrol at 80 mph and steer the car while it was quiet “as at a library”.
I have an 88′ LSC, and I can say that none of my badges are gold like this one’s are. I wonder if they detached them and spray-painted them or something.
Anyhow, I purchased it from a charity auction for $1,000 a few years ago. The original owner donated it after the transmission went (the AOD is pretty self-destructive thanks to a little plastic grommet). After some searching I replaced the trans with a recently rebuilt one out of an E-series van (the Lincolns and vans/trucks have an inch longer tail shaft than the Ford/mercury cars do, which made it very difficult one that would fit). Aside from some missing interior trim bits and some minor problems (squeak behind the back seat, A/C not working, slight leak in the heater core) its both cheap and fun transportation.
Even with 225 hp its not precisely impressive in the acceleration department, especially compared to a Mark VIII, but it cruises at 65mph at an effortless fast idle. I average around 18 mpg but on the highway 20+ is easily possible. Its very comfortable and quiet and not particularly shabby in the handling department, with extremely quick rack-and-pinion making up for the lack of independent rear suspension.
It’s not as big as you might think, sort of on the larger end of mid-sized. Not much headroom, especially in the back seat, and the trunk is rather shallow. But it’s reliable and turns heads.
I still have my ’88 LSC, good spot on this one (3 VII’s and 2 VIII’s). Likely that it is an ’88 as it was a long production year, the ’87 production abbreviated to introduce all of the enhancements for ’88. Not sure if it is the larger headrests of 87-89 or glare. There is no “Continental” badge on the trunk lid badging- either post ’87 or updated badging after repaint. This one appears to have a ground effects kit on it- GTC or repro clone (lower body cladding F/S/R and wing).
The aftermarket fogs may not be to taste, but the original Marchall are a major PIA for a daily driver. They sit low and are easily destroyed by road debris and parking lot curbing. For a while in the 90’s I replaced mine with projector beam fogs after replacing so many OE springs, bulbs, glass and covers on the OE units (hard to get and expensive even in the 90’s.) In the last 20+ years, I’ve had SO many of the covers stolen, it’s ridiculous! Good ones go for @$300 on eBay now. Also, the light distribution is not great on the originals.
The diesels were not high HP, but they were torquey, you could still chirp the rear wheels and with careful pedal work do a nice diesel dump on tailgaters from a red light 🙂
The exhaust was dual muffler exhaust (still have Flowmasters on mine!), glad to see that this one does not have the oft seen chrome straight pipes.
I’ve always loved these (frequently criticised) cars, glad they seem to be starting to gain a following!
Despite the platform’s origin as a humble Fairmont, these did the smooth and quiet thing well. One night when my 87 Mustang GT was in overnight for service, I got an LSC as a pool car to drive home. As I neared Plymouth, I decided to take it a couple of extra exits west on M-14 to see what it would do once the traffic cleared. West of Sheldon Road I gave it a little gas, and once I thought I was at a comfortable cruising speed I looked down and I was doing 95! I suppose I was used to gauging speed in the Mustang by sound and feel, and the LSC at 95 felt like smoother and quieter than the Mustang did at 70. One of these would make a great 2-person road-trip car, especially once one updated the engine to ~300 hp.
I think the success of this car at its mission is evidence that Fox was one of the best platforms in Ford’s history. It succeeded as a basic sedan, a Mustang, and an upscale sedan (but then Falcon did that as well), but it also was a credible luxury sedan and performance coupe.
BTW, I saw an 85-86 Mustang on the road yesterday, and I was struck by how demure it seems compared with today’s generation of oversized ponycars. To tell the truth, I’d take a cared-for, re-engined Fox car in a minute now.