(When I saw today’s Lexus GS300 CC scheduled, I wanted to do a post on its design-sibling, the Daewoo Leganza. Then I remembered this review I did of a test drive of my younger son Will’s first car, back in 2010. So here it is again)
Dad! Would you come and check out a car I might want to buy?
Sure Will; what is it?
A Deawoo Leganza.
Oh, Um, Ah, Hm; you’re sure that you might want to buy that?
Yeah; it’s got leather, sunroof, and a great sound system.
What’s wrong with it?
The electric window switches are wacky. I don’t care.
Are you sure that’s all?
I’m prepared for the worst. The Daewoo name carries some heavy baggage, and is often assumed to have been a failed brand because of its disappearance so soon after it arrived in the US. But that was the result of GM buying Daewoo, and forcing a shutdown of the US distributor by cutting off their supply. But in Daewoo’s brief day in the sun, the Leganza was the top of the line. And this is a loaded CDX version: 4 wheel discs, 16″ alloys, traction and ABS, sunroof, leather, the works. And that many more wires to get crossed up.
It’s showing 138,000 miles on the odometer and a few minor dings and scratches; this was a hand-me down to one of his high school friends, a girl thankfully. It’s been sitting for months, as the owner has graduated to a VW Cabrio, natch. But the Holden-built 131 hp 2.2 L D-TEC II four, one of the many variants of the GM Family II, starts right up with a purr. The genuine made-in-Japan Aisin four-speed automatic shifts crisply into gear, and off we go, rubbing the surface rust off the squeaky discs.
The engine has good response, and decent low-mid speed power, but is no Honda in sound or its top end. The transmission shifts like new, better than our similarly-old Forester. We head out into the country, and after a couple of short full-throttle blasts to 85 or so, nothing has blown up, vibrated or complained. Performance is mission-appropriate for an eighteen year old. The drive-train gets a pass.
The suspension and body integrity is better than I was prepared for. It feels surprisingly tight and un-worn out. This is not a particularly cushy or quiet car, but neither is it harsh or overly cheap feeling. The Leganza was marketed as an affordable “executive class” car in places like Eastern Europe at the time. The front is quite roomy; my easily cramped 6’4″ body felt quite at home, and even the headroom was true to its name, despite the sunroof. I didn’t bother to get in the back; sorry.
Handling also surpassed my low expectations; nothing inspiring, but harmless and moderately competent. The steering was reasonably crisp, with decent communication, and not over-boosted, like too many electric units these days. The Leganza is quite neutral in curves, and is not afraid of them, if not exactly on the prowl. Once again, mission appropriate.
The seats felt rather flat and firm, but I wasn’t in it long enough to tell whether that is a good or bad thing. The seating surfaces would need to be sent to a lab to confirm it really being leather. On the other hand, it doesn’t look worn out either. The interior material quality is actually quite good: with a few minor exceptions, it’s totally covered in genuine old-school padded vinyl; a reasonably credible imitation of the “fat” V30 Camry from the early nineties. In fact, it’s pretty obvious that Daewoo had that car in its visor when it developed the Leganza. For a kid who always wanted a Lexus LS400 for his first car, this is actually an appropriate (and quite acceptable, to him) substitute. Times change, tastes change.
Although the Daewoo is no Lexus, there is a connection. The Leganza was styled by no less than the by Giorgetto Giugiaro, and heavily based on his Jaguar Kensington concept (above), a design he also recycled into the Toyota Aristo/Lexus GS 300 (first generation). Maybe something got lost in the translation; now it’s forgettable and invisible: once again, mission appropriate.
What else is there to consider in a short drive? The brakes still work; good enough. As does the sunroof, automatic climate control, cruise and electric seats. The only flaw: the electric window controls. Sometimes they work, sometimes only when the door is open; other times, it sets all the door lockers in a nervous spasm. Anybody have any suggestions?
We return, and I let him negotiate a price: $500. It’s the other extreme of the depreciation scale, the one to be on when buying. The original sticker folded in the glove box reads $19+k. Not likely someone actually paid that, but still…
“We’ll be right back; there’s an ATM a couple of blocks away”.
Postscript: The Leganza served Will well for some time, until he came into some money, ditched it, and bought a nice Ford Ranger. That soon lost out in an unfortunate interaction with a sturdy street light pole. He wishes it had been the Leganza, not the Ranger, since the Ranger happened to be uninsured. Oh well; live and learn.
If I am not mistaken, Daewoo was the source of the mid eighties Pontiac LeMans, which didn’t work out too well.
I’d love to see some shots of that 59 Plymouth in the background.
A full CC on the Fury by Jim Cavenaugh is here: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/curbside-classic-1959-plymouth-fury-love-transcends-reason/
I thought I’d seen that ’59 before….
We had a 3 door Lemans, it served us well with absolutely no cash outlay for the better part of four years until an electrical short under the dash caused an unscheduled barbecue. Considering we only paid $500 to start we were still quite happy with it…
“…one of his high school friends, a girl thankfully.”☺
While of course there are lead-footed ♀ drivers (such as my sister & sister-in-law), these seem to be in the minority.? ←Unicode Extended Transport Symbol
I was impressed with Daewoo and then the lights went out and they were gone! Love the ’59 Plymouth and the Fiero in the background!
They are not gone, they carry the brand name, “Chevrolet,” now. The Spark, Cruz and Sonic were all engineered by Daewoo staff in Korea.
While they may have been based on the same Kensington concept, this seems like something of a dumbed-down version. The grille isn’t bad, and the general shape is there, but the details let it down. Not offensive in any way but, as put best in the text, “forgettable and invisible”.
Still, from what I remember during Daewoo’s brief sojourn in the USA, the Leganza was regarded as the best effort of the three, the Nubira being too far down the “cheap and cheerful” scale with insufficient cheer, and the Lanos being about the most anodyne car one could dream up. I’ve not seen either Lanos or Nubira in years, but there still seem to be a handful of Leganzas on the road.
“You just got killed by a Daewoo, bitch!”- Pineapple Express.
“Ah don’ wanna get Daewoo on mah hands!”
Think it was Queen Latifah in ‘Taxi’. Then said by car buyers worldwide.
500bucks
that is a double edged sword
now you have to worry about every dollar spent on repairs/maintenance because the car’s market value is essentially worthless.
Better way to look at a potential $1,000 repair: What could I buy for that $1,000 that would be a better car? What car could I buy for that amount that wouldn’t need expensive repairs?
For purposes of assessing whether to fix or dump an old car, market value is worthless. From a strictly financial point of view, any car that’s not rotted out is usually worth repairing, within reason.
That’s the same reason I’m still driving my ’97 Crown Vic rather than having traded it for something more interesting. I know the car’s history, it’s been very reliable, hasn’t cost me much ($1000 total in repairs/service in 2.5 years, and $100 of that was my own fault for not looking where I was backing) and, most importantly, I couldn’t get anything I could trust for the same amount of money I could sell it for.
They say that, from a strictly financial point of view, it’s not worth replacing a car until what you’re paying in repairs yearly approaches what your car payment would be yearly (if you’re financing) or until the repairs in a year total more than the car’s value (if you have the cash on hand to purchase something better). If you don’t have the cash on hand to upgrade and can’t or won’t finance, then your equation does take precedence. And in most cases the answer is “nothing” hence the repair is worthwhile even if painful.
There is also the matter of known and unknown quantities. Any time you buy a really cheap car, even from a scrupulously honest seller, you’re buying a lot of unknowns, especially as regards previous maintenance and repairs. If you’re buying a cheap car because you need a car and have little money to spend, it often makes more sense to fix something rather than immediately dump the car for another one that may have an even longer list of potential problems you don’t know about yet. Obviously, at some point you may be throwing good money after bad, but it’s easier to make that call for a car you’re already familiar with.
Decent enough overall styling though somewhat anonymous. Perhaps breaking up that anonymity is why Daewoo added that gaudy, chromed center on the grill. It makes the car look like it has buck teeth.
I’m trying to imagine it with the chrome “waterfall” blacked, or toned down.
Sorry, no idea on the wacky electric windows and door locks…you’re telling us Will sold it that way?
Sorry, no idea on the wacky electric windows and door locks…you’re telling us Will sold it that way?
The windows working when the door is open, but not when closed, and interacting with the power locks tells me it’s the wiring harness where it flexes between the door and door frame. The window lead would be open with the door closed, but opening the door flexes the wire just enough to make contact, and an intermittent short with the lock lead.
Reminds me of the POS 78 Zephyr. The headlight switch was on the dash, but the dimmer switch and wipers were on steering column stalks, along with the turn signals. By the time the car was 2 years old, turning on the low beam headlights would also light the high beams, dimly, the left turn signal, dimly, and run the wipers.
Here’s a pic of what a Ford Focus owner found when he pulled the boot off of the wires going to the hatch, after suffering high brakelight and rear wiper wierdness.
Same problem on VW Jetta driver’s doors. Apparently, VW has changed to a more flex tolerant wiring harness in the last couple years.
May 28, 2014 — Owners of the 2005-2006 Volkswagen Jetta have complained for years about defective door wiring harness assemblies that cause failures of the door locks and windows. Some owners have alleged the wiring harness can cause additional electrical problems with the trunk and alarm system.
http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2014/volkswagen-jetta-door-wiring-harness-lawsuit.shtml
My buddy had a 5-Series (E34, 1989 for those who don’t know BMW codes). His wiring harness that was running to the trunk, looked the same. He had to re-solder all of the wires.
Later he started having a problem with his power windows and power sunroof working intermittently. He called BMW stealership on Saturday and they said that they will need more than half a day to figure it out. After hearing that he phoned an old BMW tech. Tech asked if his wipers were working. As soon as we come to see the tech, he popped the hood and showed where were broken wires. He didn’t even wanted to take any money, but we insisted and gave him $20 for beer.
So, German cars were not much better than S Korean or American.
OMG! Don’t let Car and Driver hear you say that! They have preached for years that BMW’s are immortal, immaculate, and above ALL other vehicles on the planet. And I believed them until I started polling owners. Every one said the same thing–“3 year cars”/then trouble/$$expensive repairs. Co-worker’s (new) 3-series ceiling console fell in her lap… Can’t wait to see C&D drool over that monstrosity Bimmer electric’s styling…LOL!
Every one said the same thing–“3 year cars”/then trouble/$$expensive repairs. Co-worker’s (new) 3-series ceiling console fell in her lap
I have had one coworker with a Bimmer, a 99 318ti hatchback, bought new to replace her Golf. After she had had it for several months, I asked her what color hers was, as I had seen a silver one, a green one and iirc a red one in the parking lot. She said her’s was the sliver one. The others were loaners because her’s was a steaming pile that was in the shop repeatedly.
Zephry was modern enough to have dimmer switch on the column stalks, but old enough to have the light switch on dash. Usually it’s common for transition period cars, as they touch the both ends.
Zephry was modern enough to have dimmer switch on the column stalks, but old enough to have the light switch on dash. Usually it’s common for transition period cars, as they touch the both ends.
The Zephyr’s light switch was 60s old school, big chrome knob you pulled out to turn on the lights and rotated to adjust instrument panel brightness.
German practice today seems to be light switch on a rotary knob on the dash, and dimmer on the turn signal stalk. That is the setup my VW has, and seems to be usual in Bimmers and Mercs, and the short lived, Opel built Saturn Astra. Ford US is also adopting that layout, starting with the 2000 Focus. The Chevy Cruze and Sonic also have the panel mounted rotary swich.
Maybe the 2000 Focus was the first to have all the functions on the knob at Ford, but the concept predates those. The Crown Victoria used a rotary knob for the light functions starting back in ’95, with a separate dimmer, though it was not on the stalk (rocker switch above the light control knob ’95-’97, control wheel below the light knob ’98-’11.)
The Crown Victoria used a rotary knob for the light functions starting back in ’95, with a separate dimmer, though it was not on the stalk (rocker switch above the light control knob ’95-’97, control wheel below the light knob ’98-’11.)
German practice now seems to be to have the instrument panel dimmer control next to the rotary headlight switch on the panel, but the headlight dimmer on the turn signal stalk.
Here’s a pic of a mid 2000s Focus headlight switch, with the panel dimmer knob.
Here’s the setup in a Mk6 VW Jetta
Your missing the other interesting feature on the focus headlight switch. On the Focuses that had factory fog lights, the headlight switch also turned them on. You turned on the running lights or headlights and then pulled the switch towards you and that turned on the fog lights
On the Focuses that had factory fog lights, the headlight switch also turned them on. You turned on the running lights or headlights and then pulled the switch towards you and that turned on the fog lights
Same set up as my 08 Ford Taurus X Limited, which had factory driving lights. On the T-Rex, pushing the turn signal stalk away from me turned on the high beams. Pulling the stalk toward me flashed the headlights, exactly the same as my VW.
I had an Astra…
The dimmer switch was under the headlight knob on the dash. You pressed it and it would pop out and turn either to the right or left, but it was an electronic knob and didn’t rotate but pressed… I know there is a term for it but I can’t think of it!
There was also the button for the fog lights, and a dummy spot for headlight aiming (it had projectors and apparently in it’s home market you can aim your lights dependent on your cargo load).
My Dart has the knob, which itself presses for the fogs IIRC. Next to it is the dimmer for the interior lights as well as the dimmer for the LED accent lighting.
One thing the Dodge does which I can’t recall a car doing in awhile is when the knob is rotated all the way up, the interior lights come on. In the Astra at least you had to switch on the maps (right, left, center button choices) and flip the toggles on the rear lights.
Here’s a pic of the light switch of my European RHD late model mk1 Focus (built December 2004, the Euro mk2 was already out by then).
This has front & rear fog lights, pull once for the front, and a second time for the rear.
Turning the switch to the left activates the side lights as parking lights when the engine is off. the indicator stalk is used if you want one side only.
It also has hight adjustment for the front headlights, the rotary rocker to the left. This is to allow for passengers & luggage as so not to dazzle other drivers.
Strangely it lacks the rheostat adjustment of the dashboard lights. It should have had it. Does not bother me now I’ve gotten used to the green lighting. Ford saving money yet again.
“…The windows working when the door is open, but not when closed, and interacting with the power locks tells me it’s the wiring harness…”
I saw that on one of my Dad’s cars. But it was built in 1963! By now I would have thought wiring could be sturdier. Guess not…!!!
By now I would have thought wiring could be sturdier. Guess not…!!!
Not when sturdier conflicts with cheaper, and copper for wire is not cheap.
Very common on Focus rear hatches, as well as the front doors of GM Delta cars (Saturn Ion, Chevy Cobalt and HHR, Saturn Astra). As is typical of GM, they spec’s cheap, brittle, inflexible wiring in the worst place for it – where it bends the most, and most often.
Very common on Focus rear hatches, as well as the front doors of GM Delta cars (Saturn Ion, Chevy Cobalt and HHR, Saturn Astra).
As I am casually looking for a beater for next winter, I have been looking into this issue in more depth.
There are a couple Astras on offer around here. Found the most complaints about the rear door wires breaking. The Focus and Jetta have the harness connector in the door jam, the bendy section is in the door harness, so the proper repair is a snap: fit a new harness in the door. The Astra appears to have the connector in the door. The bendy part is in the body wire harness, so, other than rewiring the entire car, you’re splicing wires under the carpet next to the rocker panel.
Looked on the Ford parts site to see where the hatch wire harness plugged in, and found no listing for that harness. They showed all the body harnesses and the door harnesses, but nothing for the hatch. Could it be that Ford has sold out it’s stock of replacement hatch harnesses, so 2000-07 Focus owners have no choice but try to splice what is already there?
Considered a Cobalt LS as they have crank windows, mechanical locks and mechanical mirror adjustment. No door wires to break! Found the ‘Balt has a long history of timing chain tensioner failure starting around 80,000, which GM never addressed. Failed tensioner->slack chain->jumped teeth on sprocket->pistons meet valves->sayonara engine.
Turns out the heater/defrost fan was intermittent too, and mostly wouldn’t work, which was a problem in the winter. He bought a nice Ranger; the Leganza sat around for a while, and he eventually drove it to the scrapper when prices were high. I think something else came up too. He made out ok financially, having spent almost nothing on it.
I would have made an effort to fix the electrics, because it was a well-kept car with a nice interior and didn’t at all feel shot. But at that stage of our lives/relationship, I wasn’t going to do it for him, and he couldn’t be bothered. Except in retrospect.
Turns out the heater/defrost fan was intermittent too, and mostly wouldn’t work, which was a problem in the winter.
Was the fan switch mechanical, or a momentary pushbutton that told a computer to turn on the fan? An intermittent connection anywhere can send pulses through the electrical system that will cause problems with microprocessors.
The guy in this video found that the cruise control operating intermittently and brake lights on all the time were caused by the broken and shorted wires in a Focus hatch.
This was five years ago, but it seems like an eternity ago….a lot of water under the bridge, as well as seven cars. But he’s not driving these days, which is a good thing.
I think I might borrow that phase of yours sometime: “But at that stage of our lives/relationship…….”
Daewoo’s logo was compared by some to an athletic supporter.
Also, lady parts.
We all seem to have high expectations these days. Ten years and 138k + miles and the worst issue is electric window wiring, on a high feature model that is now passing around between young people. This from an orphan brand of a then not quite fully emerged economy. Try that with an Austin America, or a Renault 18i. $500 well spent. Do you know what Will got when he sold it?
See comment further up. He drove it to the scrapper and got a couple hundred when steel was high.
That’s a lot of car for $500.00. Great deal. Agree with Steve the problem was probably in the door harness where it flexes. Glad to hear if the truck had no insurance he didn’t hit a car. Family member bought a 2004 Mazda 6 4 cylinder 4 speed auto with 172k miles for $2300.00. Power everything and new tires, it all works and the paint, body and interior are all good, just some scratches a tube of touch up paint will fix. And it’s now on the waiting list for a drivers side airbag, I looked it up, it has the defective airbags. At this point Mazda won’t replace passenger bag, maybe in the future hopefully. No leaks but uses a quart of oil about every 700 miles. I think she paid about $1000 too much. Thankfully it’s a chain motor so no belt to worry about.
Thankfully it’s a chain motor so no belt to worry about.
Chains fail too. I had a second hand 81 Mazda GLC as a beater in the late 90s. With about 95K on the clock, I wound it up one day and heard a “clink…clink..clink…” from the engine. Popped the hood and started zeroing in on the sound. It was coming from the top on the passenger side, where all the accessory drives were. Figured if there was a broken link in the timing chain (that engine had a double row chain so it might still run with only 1 of the 3 links broken) and the broken link hit the cast aluminum cam cover as it went around the sprocket, it would sound about like what I was hearing. Shut the engine off and called a charity to come get it. Looked up the VIN on CarFax years later. It was registered to a new owner a few weeks after I donated it, and no record since, so something fatal happened to it within months, if not weeks, after I donated it.
I keep debating about what to use for a beater next winter, that has things like lights and wiper controls that work the same as my VW. 05-07 Ford Focus has a timing chain, but there is the potential wiring issue in the hatch. 08 Saturn Astra had power windows and locks standard, so potential for same wiring issues as the Focus, plus uses a belt. Double jeopardy. Chevy Cobalt? Light controls a little different, chain engine but the LS trim has crank windows and mechanical locks. hmmmm
Sorry, but I’m a bit more interested in the old building in the background. Any idea what it was/is? Lots of stories in there, I suppose.
i’m guessing either a service station of some sort. It’s about 10 miles out of town.
For $500 who cares drive it till it stops then evaluate whether its worth fixing or walk away, I done that more times than I can count now with much alledgedly better cars than a Daewoo, when you shop at the bottom of the market there aint many year old Mercedes on offer.
I followed the Daewoo story with a lot of interest, for several years. The company owner was spinning gold out of air for a long time, and seemed quite good at it. He got government funding to build plants in several Eastern European countries, and built quite a pyramid before it all came tumbling down. What first caught my attention was his attempt to penetrate the U.S. Market without spending -any- money. He was attempting to use college students as his salesmen, hoping that they would sell to their families, other students, and the occasional innocent who walked by and said, “Nice Car!”. Of course this idea didn’t work so the cars ended up at Bottom Feeder dealerships. Interestingly enough one of those “I’d give them away but my wife won’t let me!” guys here in Dallas started with Daewoo, worked up to Kia, then Suzuki, and now Fiat. He’s become quite successful.
But, Daewoo. I had driven a Daewoo/Pontiac-LeMans (sob) some years earlier and had not been impressed. I didn’t therefore expect much from the Leganza, Nubria, etc. However, History has shown them to be decent cars. The company did much better than I expected for quite a while before eventually auguring into bankruptcy. I used to spend a lot of time at Edmunds.com, and I followed the complaints of owners along with watching the saga of the company inflating until it exploded. The cars really didn’t have a lot of problems considering all things. The Nubrias were crude and cheap and died in the hands of crude and cheap owners, but the Leganzas seem to been (as this example shows) decent cars, if dated in design and materials. For $500? Absolutely.
Oh that was Kim Woo-Chung, the head of the Daewoo chaebol. One of his assets was the Seoul Hilton, which was right next to his HQ building. I stayed there on a business trip years ago, remember it was across the ways from Seoul’s main railway station.
His empire eventually collapsed from excessive leveraged debt and probably some financial slight of hand in the late 1990s when the South Korean economy imploded. He fled the country for awhile but returned to be arrested and served some jail time for financial fraud.
I never got a chance to sit in or drive a Leganza, but it seems to be universally agreed upon here that it was a big step up from the Nubira. It would have to be… My parents’ Nubira was rubbish. Mostly reliable, but rubbish.
The front end of that Jag Kensington prototype looks exactly like an E39 BMW 5 series ( from the angle in the picture). Anyway , Daewoo seemed to have enjoyed brief success in South Africa with the Lanos and Nubira before disappearing. Dont see any remaining on the road though.
Interesting & forthright writeup .
Thanx .
-Nate
Seems like a fine car for the buck… But I’m just wondering if GM had decided to implement the Daewoo LeMans as a “Pontiac” then why GM or Daewoo avoided to put on the market the Daewoo Royale Prince in the mid ’80’s? It had also big bumpers, RWD, DOT-Spec lightings a Pontiac-alike grille and at least had bigger chassis than the LeMans…
The Jag Kensington is a strikingly handsome car. Can’t believe the Leganza was inspired by that.
Uptill this moment Daewoo Leganza is one of my favourite car,,imagine having two Leganza in my home today, one had transmission gear problem while the other one is perfectly in good condition