(first posted 3/4/2016) I miss full-sized, truck-based, American-designed and built, V8-powered passenger vans. I miss regularly seeing them on our roads. I miss the artistic canvas that was many of their bodysides, replete with creatively-shaped “bubble” windows and custom paint and tape stripe packages ranging from mild to wild to rustic in the tradition of the late, great Bob Ross. I miss riding in comfy captain’s chairs that swiveled, reclined, and cradled me in their luxury like I was sitting in someone’s den or TV room. I’m aware that there are passenger versions of the Europe-sourced Dodge Sprinter, but those things are hideous. I’m talking about a van’s van.
I was a kid living abroad for a year when Chrysler Corporation unleashed the groundbreaking (and soon omnipresent) Plymouth Voyager and Dodge Caravan “garageable” vans on the American public. I returned to the U.S. in late summer 1984 after a stay in my father’s native Liberia and suddenly noticed all of these shrunken van-like things with carlike styling and hatchback tailgates on the streets of Flint. At the time, the ChryCo minivan twins actually seemed kind of cool and not at all (yet) unhip – projecting a solidly upper-middle-class image as the latest, greatest thing in family transportation. I never would have realized at the time that they would, for many American consumers, take the place of two of my favorite types of vehicles: station wagons and actual, full-sized vans.
I grew up primarily in the 1980’s. It was a glorious time to be a kid passenger, when parents and adults of the day wouldn’t think twice about letting you ride in the “way back” cargo area of a station wagon, or in the bed of a pickup under a fiberglass “Top Kik” roof extender / bed cover. Some of my very favorite highway memories are of goofing off with my younger brother in the back of some family friends’ station wagon or pickup. We’d make faces at cars, count headlights and just act stupid in what had felt like a rolling play-fort with windows – and usually far out of arm’s reach of authority. Still, he and I never flashed obscene gestures at drivers or passengers of other cars, as we were good Lutheran kids…or more accurately, had the good fear of Mom’s or Dad’s belt, by which punishment would have been sure, swift and severe if the driver had to pull the vehicle over to facilitate immediate disciplinary action.
Riding in the back of a station wagon or pickup truck on the freeway was more fun than a hay ride. However, riding in a passenger van like one of our three, featured Chevys would prove to be the ultimate. Chevy (and GMC) vans were positively everywhere in the primarily blue-collar, working class, GM factory town where I grew up. In Flint, Michigan, these vans would range from spartan, with many such examples used by churches as “buses” or by large families that needed more space than a station wagon could provide – to downright, finished-basement fancy.
A ride in a conversion van would outrank what I thought a limo would be like. Think about it. A nice, cool, dark, air-conditioned, rolling cave with soft, velour seats, side curtains, cupholders, a raised seating position, and a tinted sunroof – with an AC Delco factory stereo system and the low burble of a small-block V8 providing the soundtrack for what, in retrospect, seemed like a really spa-like environment. Let’s keep this PG-13…I’m aware some of these vans were used by some for adult activities, but I’m speaking only to the highly relaxing experience of being chauffeured around in one of these while sitting in your own seat that you didn’t have to share with anyone else.
I’ve identified all three of the featured vans as being possibly from between model year 1985 through ’91, judging by the refreshed taillamp lenses and the front grilles of each. What I particularly loved about these shots was that I found each van in a locale I felt was truly reflective of each one’s “native” environment. The titular blue beauty (as of this writing) is used as a clothes runner for a local dry cleaner in my neighborhood of Edgewater, on Chicago’s north side. The beige example was seen while I was walking though a Las Vegas neighborhood parallel to the stretch of S. Las Vegas Boulevard between downtown and what’s commonly known as “The Strip”. With the tower from the Stratosphere Hotel & Casino looming overhead, the sight of this modest-but-nice dwelling and van reminded me that families do indeed live there, and that real life in Vegas continues for real people who aren’t just there on vacation to catch a few shows or blow their annual work bonus.
The last example, black with orange and red flames, was spotted at one of my favorite eating establishments back home in Flint, the Starlite Diner. This thing is Flint On Wheels, in the very best way – it is big, bold, hearty, straightforward, and unrepentant in its working class pride and tall, wide stance. It is hungry and thirsty, just like many customers inside the diner. It is the direct opposite of lithe and may not be fashionable by current tastes, but it is all-American, built by GM, and not trying to be anything other than what it is. More importantly and simply, it just gets the job done. (As for me, I’ll take my hash browns with everything on them, a whole plate of fries on the side, and three extra slices of bacon on top. Just bring me my own ketchup bottle…and thanks.)
The minivan is the conveyance of choice for many American families. My older brother’s family currently has not one, but two such vehicles (Honda Odysseys) sitting in their driveway – and no other household vehicles. Others in the CC community, like me, have lamented the disappearance of the longroof. There are only a handful of station wagons currently available in the U.S. market today, most of which are somewhat specialized, like the Subaru Outback (one of which is parked in my younger brother’s driveway). In writing this piece, though, I wanted to recognize the U.S.-designed and sourced, full-sized passenger van – which was for much of my life a staple of U.S. driveways, roads and highways, and is now a dying breed. It is deserving of our love, having served our citizens and buyers for many long, hardworking years.
The blue van was photographed in Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois in July of 2015. The beige van (Las Vegas, Nevada) and black van (Flint, Michigan) were photographed in February 2016.
I totally agree and I’m not ashamed to admit that a stripey, smoked-window, velour-coated full size conversion van is the vehicle of my dreams.
Well, one of them, at least. I dream a lot …
I have a 94 G30, with a 2 foot hi top. It was a wheel chair van for some state agency in New Mexico, I believe. So, it has no rust. The undercarriage is clean, etc. It only has around 103,000 miles. It still has the wheel chair lift, which could handle lifting a motorcycle. The lift is in the rear doors…..I had a 95 G20, which was great mechanically, but had a bunch of auxiliary problems. It rusted badly in the rear, and the floor finally collapsed on the rear right tire. But, the junk yard will pay $800 for it due to so much metal. I have seats that are like new from this van, stored……The 94 is like a new vehicle for all intents and purposes. Not sure what I will do with it. I don’t really need it, but, maybe I will try to put it to work hauling expedited freight, cuz this van is like a sprinter van, only better. …..but, if I sell it, I’d be able to invest the proceeds in the best gold stock I know of, potential 10 bagger or more, and very safe
‘A van’s van.’
Gold.
An unabashed fan of the traditional American van, here. However, I strongly prefer the Dodge and Ford varieties to these Chevy/GMC twins. But I can understand why my preferred vans would have been scarce around Flint.
I got my youthful taste of them in the 1970s, when they really started to replace station wagons in my part of the country. And I proudly rocked a Club Wagon Chateau until 2006, and which I wrote about here some time back. By then, the passenger van had become an anachronism, but I still loved mine every day.
I am a huge fan of the full size van, and have owned 3 G-vans over the last 30 years. One cannot ask for a more versatile vehicle, especially the passenger versions, that can convert from a spacious 8 seater to a cargo vehicle with a 12 ft cargo area…… and can tow 10,000 lbs.
Its a shame that the big 3 neglected van development for 40 years, instead lavishing development dollars on pick up trucks.
Now I like pick ups too, but they simply lack the versatility of the van. My current G van, a 3/4 ton window van is indispensable, very effective for a design that dates back to 1970.t. I do miss my old Chevy shortbox with a modded 350. That thing could smoke the tires for 100 ft.
The current crop of import based vans are interesting, but lose the virtues of cheap and easy repair. The older vans’ traditional technology and widely available parts made repair and maintenance a snap. By comparison, my friends Sprinter broke the Mercedes-sourced transmission and was quoted $8500 for repair. That van was soon replaced with a cheap and cheerful 1991 Chevy conversion van, and he couldn’t be happier.
$8500 for repair? I’ve heard many stories of otherwise serviceable Sprinters doomed by broken transmissions. You’d think a cottage industry would develop around adapting cheaper, more common trans to these things. An adapter plate,
maybe some creative welding, and a junkyard Ford AOD, THM-700 or other, and Sprinter stays on road.
I, too, miss these full size vans. Amazing things can happen in the back of them….
Here in Chicago I know a girl with 2 Chevy Vans of around the blue one’s vintage. She is currently having one of them repainted and restored. There are still Van Fans around…
I’ve never been a true “Van Fan”, but have to admit to appreciating their charms. When the conversion van craze of the late ’70’s was in full swing it really was fun to see their creative airbrushed panels roaming the highways. Actually piloting one, on the other hand, was never something I’ve aspired to, and fortunately by the time I reached driving age that fad was a thing of the past.
My only first hand experience with a full-on pimptastic conversion van was in 1970-something while my cousins from out of state were in town briefly on a summer trip. My father borrowed an Econoline conversion from a friend, complete with shag carpeted innards, swiveling captains chairs, fold out bed, teardrop bubble windows, wild striping and burbling side pipes, to take all of us to a drive-in movie. The feature was “Corvette Summer”. I was about 12, I think. It was certainly a quintessential van experience, at least to as much of a degree as a pre-teen might be able to experience. Despite the novelty of the whole thing, that was enough exposure to the culture for me.
Saw this in Amarillo yesterday. The 69-74 Econolines are my favorite van design.
I also miss the full-sized truck based Chevy van. I’ve never owned one, nor have I driven one. But I have ridden plenty of them, and they served their purposes quite well. It’s bad enough that GM discontinues the full-sized van, but they don’t come up with a worthy replacement. What kind of thinking is that? Like it or not there will always be a need for a van for something.
When did GM say they were discontinuing their full-size van?
Additionally, the Sprinter is no longer sold as a Dodge. Now Dodge’s full-size van is the ProMaster, based off the FWD Fiat Ducato. I think it should have been a rebadge of the RWD Iveco Daily to better compete with the Ford Transit, but whatever.
As far as I know, GM’s Express van is the last of the old-school vans still offered by the Big 3. The others have gone to a more European urban commercial mover. But that Express design is 20 now years old and on its last legs. Even when new, it was flawed, with sustandard handling, a poor driving position and an inexplicably tall dashboard.
As Johannes Dutch said, the Renault Master/Opel Movano would be a good replacement for the outdated Express.
GM does market a Euro van, the City Express.
Yes, but that’s a small van to compete with the Ram ProMaster City and the Ford Transit Connect. Their full-size van is still the 1996 design.
That’s a Nissan NV200 (see DrZ138’s comment further down). Built all over the world, Spain included. In Europe these have a Renault diesel.
DrZ138 also mentions the Ram ProMaster City. As an aside, Opel (GM) offers that van as the Opel Combo in Europe. So both the Ram and the Opel are a rebadged Fiat Doblo.
I don’t miss working on them one bit .
They’re still everywhere in California but at the rate nice ones are being scrapped that won’t last long .
-Nate
Agreed on that score – all of that extra room for passengers and stuff was paid for by making everything underhood a tremendous pain to service. My 94 Ford managed to put the center of the engine right under the base of the windshield so some things could be reached out front, some from inside, and others barely at all.
A damn sight better than my transverse V6 Town & Country minivan, though.
If anything, the Chevys were easier than the Fords. The Chevy engine was so far back, engine access was quite good from inside, with the doghouse removed. One could drive with the doghouse removed and adjust the timing while rolling. It’s a quick and easy way to tune for max power without detonation.
The one instance where that rear mounted distributor is useful! 🙂
The ’84 long wheelbase Chevy work van I drove for the local Carquest warehouse got “decent” mileage from it’s 305 4-bbl and automatic overdrive transmission. Measurably better than its 6 cylinder short wheelbase brothers.
Chevy will add the 2.8L Duramax turbo-diesel out of the Colorado/Canyon to both passenger and cargo versions of the Express full size van later this year.
I thought these had a 2.0 liter engine when I saw one for the first time.
Anyway, here’s a modern full-size GM van. Never mind that Renault did all the work. Welcome to the 21th century.
The twenty-firth century? 😛
And the Renault Master/Opel Movano is already sold as the Nissan NV400, so the circle would be complete (Nissan NV200=Chevy City Express).
Yes…like in the Firth of July.
There’s also this smaller Opel Vivaro (another Renault job) and the compact Opel Combo (which is a Fiat Doblo aka Ram ProMaster City).
There was a Nissan version of the previous gen Renault Trafic / Opel Vivaro too, it was called the Nissan Primastar.
Update: I just read an article (two days old) that the next Nissan mid-sized van, the NV300, will be fully based on the current Renault Trafic. Ditto for the new Fiat Scudo.
So soon the Renault Trafic, Opel Vivaro, Nissan NV300 and Fiat Scudo are all the same, in essence. These will be all built in Renault’s plant in Sandouville, France.
Furthermore, the FWD versions of the Mercedes Vito van are based on Renault Trafic technology.
The idiotic, punitive Chicken Tax effectively insulated Detroit from international competition in light vans, & their technical competence therefore atrophied. No wonder Ford & Fiat/Chrysler had to borrow their recent new designs from Europe, & Chevy even badge-engineered Nissan’s NV200. I’d be surprised if GM doesn’t follow suit in the full-sized segment.
In the long run ANY form of protectionism will come back at you like a boomerang, hitting you in your own face, head-on.
I would rather have the GMC version (the Vandura)
Make mine with a spoiler and a red stripe
A van like that and you know that the guys in it mean business!
It always bothered me that so many of the 3/4-ton vans (G-20) had 5-lug wheels.
Yup. I have regularly loaded the hell out of my G 20’s. Never had a problem with the 5 bolt wheels, but they dont inspire confidence. Boy do I ever drive conservatively with a full load.
I just have to wonder what the reasoning was behind that.
Definitely cost. The one-ton vans had the stronger 8 bolt wheels. I guess GM thought they could get away with the cheaper 5-bolt hardware.
GM did the same nickle-and-dime savings with the half ton 1500 vans. They have lighter, smaller brake hardware than the 3/4 ton versions. There was no engineering reason to do so, its all about saving a few bucks where possible.
Time to sing Sammy Johns’ song “Chevy Van”. 😉
And enjoying the Diet-Pepsi ad aired originally circa 2000-2005 in Canada featuring a Chevy Van. 😉
THANK YOU !
I had never seen that advert and I love ‘ raper vans ‘ and jokes about them .
-Nate
Thanks for posting this! takes me back to a good time and place. And that’s alright with me.
Except I’ll be hearing this all weekend now…
We mostly had these but they got V8s installed and all the interior done
This is awesome, Bryce. This example is different from examples here in the U.S., yet looks so familiar.
A Bedford CF which was built from 1969 to 1987.
I missed out on the “shaggin wagon” era. By the time I was old enough to drive they were seen as creepy.
I did however drive a 12 passenger chevy Beauville. It was a company vehicle. I think it was an `86 or an `87. The sliding door kept falling off. One night the alternator exploded and the shrapnel took out the rad and the valve cover before littering the highway. Occasionally the cruise control would go wacky and drop the pedal to the floor. This usually happened on the highway and it always cancelled either with the brake or by shutting it off. The dealer was made aware of this but it never happened when it was in for service.
During the busiest time of the year it started blowing white smoke after they continued using it while adding antifreeze at an alarming rate. Two jugs for every 100 miles or so. I was to take over the van for the car pool duty and I refused to drive it that way. It sat for a week until I got the go ahead to take it in. It was 200km short of running out the warranty. Had I known that I would have driven it anyway just to stick them with a bill for mistreating a vehicle like they did.
Of all the company cars the van was the best. It was never crowded unless there was a butt in every seat and the wacky cruise control was the van`s way of playing chicken. The 89 caprice was second only due to the wind up windows. It was an odd ball.
There are a bunch of GM Fullsized Vans in Multnomah County. Some are still being used as work vehicles whether that be carrying people or cargo. Some live a leisurely life doing whatever it is their owners need them for and some have become customized statements on wheels. Then there are some that are utiluzed by the motorhomless. There are also a bunch of Chassis Cab versions used for a wide variety of purposes whether it be a Blue Bird Microbird seen at a farmers’ market or an old Ryder cube van picking up used tires.
This one has a sticker from the Reno/Tahoe Airport on the rear bumper.
I travelled the country in one of the last great Dodge Ram vans. It had its flaws but never let me down mechanically. I penned a COAL about it last year for anyone who’s interested:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/cars-of-a-lifetime/coal-travels-with-charley/
I drove these Chevy vans alot years ago. Very useful but a miserable penalty box.
The St. Louis metro area was THE epicenter of high-end conversion vans. For much of the ’80s and up to the early 2000s, Behlmann Pontiac-GMC in Hazelwood, MO typically had on any given day over 1000 of them on their massive lot. The Bi-State area’s automotive drug of choice was a concoction of Lordstown Assembly indifference mixed with Elkhart Amish craftsmanship and finally spiked by a dose of Behlmann’s high volume pricing.
In 1995 the drug’s formula changed a bit as the active ingredient was now locally made in Wentzville. The addicts kept on coming even as the rest of the country was buying SUVs largely because Behlmann could sell you a custom van for not much more than an average Suburban or Expedition.
The spike in fuel prices and some business missteps by the Behlmann family resulted in the end of the local addiction to conversion vans, but there are still quite a few (including a surprising number of G-vans) on the road. The store in Hazelwood is now a Buick-GMC franchise under different ownership, its van lot now full of a much smaller number of Sierras and Terrains.
I had a company G30 back in the early 80s. When I no longer had the G30 I bought a ’79 G20 SWB with a 400ci SBC. That was followed by a 1989 conversion van 350/350 combo. It was white and burgundy with a velour interior the color of Pepto Bismol. In 1997 I (the 5 of us) put 7000 miles in 3 weeks. One of the best family vacations ever and it couldn’t have been possible without that big van. I missed the big vans so much I recently bought a 20 year old E350 Club Wagon Chateau with 53k miles. The 460 is not going to be very economical but it’s perfectly suited to my purposes which do not include daily driving duties.
Thank you for the article.
If my mom’s memory serves me correctly, my grandparents had one of these in the 1970s-80s. It was a blue Chevy Beauville van, with what I assume was a somewhat similar graphics/color package to that displayed on the van below. Like the van you showed in Flint, it was pure working-class Flint. Grandpa drove it in-and-out of the Chevy Factories (Chevy in the Hole) day-in and day-out for the better part of 15 years. The one issue I must say is of note was that it was rusty as tin can by the end, IIRC.
Our ’88 Chevy van with Trans-Aire conversion was definitely a great kid-hauler…only fight was who got the second row captain’s chairs! It even had “mood lights” and a 5″ black & white TV tucked into the roof. Was awesome for traveling, too, with rear seat that converted into full/queen size bed. It was a dependable, great running van, but within 3 years it began rusting around the conversion picture windows, so decided to trade it off on a ’91 Astro before it got too bad.
The small TVs tucked into the raised roof section were such a big deal back in the day. A friend’s parents had one, and it always seemed so much more luxurious than my family’s sedans.
I blame this POS(see below) for the decline of the RWD full sized van…. Along with the FWD Ford Taurus and compact SUVs for the demise of RWD personal luxury coupe.
Never mind that the Caravan and other FWD minivans were far more space-efficient and practical for the majority of full-size passenger van buyers…
My brother bought a 4 y.o. short wheelbase cargo van right out of college. 250 inline 6, 3 on the three, no options. It had a bad habit of getting stuck in first gear if you didn’t downshift through second. In its old age, with rust holes around most of the rocker panels, someone stole it, but brought it back several days later, stuck in first with the ignition punched out.
These G-vans seemed like such archaic relics in the ’90s, when they were still in production. And it blows my mind that the current Express van has now been in production even longer than these were.
Weren’t these 1973-95 Chevy Vans made from Unitized Body and Chassis construction until they were replaced by an all new redesigned models in 1996 based from the Suburban BOF Truck platform?
When I was a kid I assembled two model car kits; the first was a Chevette (to match the car my dad had just bought in 1976), and the second was a customized Chevy van that AMT was making called NIRVAN, which apparently was a 1973 model although it hit the store shelves in 1975. I sprayed mine a metallic fairly-dark blue, same as I had on hand from the Chevette model which matched our actual car. The van had round porthole bubble windows in the back, in classic ’70s custom van style. For the interior, I wanted carpeting on the floors, walls, and ceiling of course, but of course that wasn’t included in the kit. Not a problem, I picked some up at a fabric store. My third and last model car was a late ’70s Olds Omega coupe – not sure why I wanted that – but don’t think I ever put it together.
I was a ’70s kid and I loved those custom vans, and dreamt of owning one when I grew up. But around 1980, they quickly disappeared from the roads and almost completely from customizers, who moved to the more family-friendly 80s/90s style of customized van, with the raised roof, huge windows, captain’s chairs in back, and a TV and VCR, but no bar, no bed, and no shag carpeting. I thought when I first saw the Chrysler minivans, I was sure that would spark a custom van revival since they were now more manageable to drive and more fuel-efficient. Chrysler even showed a few so equipped at auto shows in 1984. But minivans soon took on a very different image than their full-size counterparts. Has anyone ever seen a mini-van done up in 1970s-style murals, chrome wheels, bubble windows, and interior?
This kit:
I have a 1991 G20 Chevy Van. Mine is a Explorer conversion package. I have had a great experience with mine. Very minimal repair cost. I have only had to replace the alternator,radiator water pump,heater core. The heater core was a heck of a job,I had to take the whole dash board out. This was not bad for 31 years.
I have a 1991 G20 Chevy Van. Mine is a Explorer conversion package. I have had a great experience with mine. Very minimal repair cost. I have only had to replace the alternator,radiator water pump,heater core. The heater core was a heck of a job,I had to take the whole dash board out. This was not bad for 31 years..
Pic
No picture…..
-Nate
I have a 94 G30 with a 2 foot hi top. And a wheel chair lift. It was a govt vehicle in New Mexico, 102000 miles, look like new almost, no rust……I am figuring out what to do with it. Keep it, work it as a freight hauler, sell it. I really don’t want to sell it, but maybe I should..maybe I can post a pic later
Test
Update to my comment:
I have a 94 G30, with a 2 foot hi top. It was a wheel chair van for some state agency in New Mexico, I believe. So, it has no rust. The undercarriage is clean, etc. It only has around 103,000 miles. It still has the wheel chair lift, which could handle lifting a motorcycle. The lift is in the rear doors…..I had a 95 G20, which was great mechanically, but had a bunch of auxiliary problems. It rusted badly in the rear, and the floor finally collapsed on the rear right tire. But, the junk yard will pay $800 for it due to so much metal. I have seats that are like new from this van, stored……The 94 is like a new vehicle for all intents and purposes. Not sure what I will do with it. I don’t really need it, but, maybe I will try to put it to work hauling expedited freight, cuz this van is like a sprinter van, only better. …..but, if I sell it, I’d be able to invest the proceeds in the best gold stock I know of, potential 10 bagger or more, and very safe
here it is
OOPS wrong picture….here is correct pic
here is my 94 van. having trouble posting pic…..
Reduce the size, to maximum 1200 pixels in width.
Has the tan van in the first picture been sold? If so, where can I find another one for sale?
@ Paul ;
The sad thing is : there’s plenty of rust free and un dented ones at every LKQ self service junkyard in California -but- they don’t want to sell complete vehicles .
Most of them have been run into the ground as low end tradesman work rigs, IMO they’re well worth up fixing but unless you can buy one for $1,000 maximum not really worth the bother .
Try your local charity place, the tend to get a lot of near pristine grandpa’s vans that no one wants…..
-Nate
The van scene is still more alive than people realize. You just don’t see them everywhere anymore, unless you own one ( or 2, or 3). So alive that there are yearly eVANts that happen throughout the year. Each of which having the potential to draw 75-800 vans. Us Vanners still love the scene.