$7,750 is all this Allante owner is asking for his Pininfarina-bodied Cadillac. It was a little sad to see that price taped to the window of this car, which stickered at upwards of $60,000 when new and was made in numbers that never topped 5,000 in any of its seven years of production.
The Allante was never perfect, as Jason Shafer points out in his excellent writeup of a 1987 example (read it here). But it did bring Cadillac some attention, both good and bad, at a time when it had slipped into near irrelevancy, building mostly floaty bloatmobiles for well-heeled bluehairs.
So I kind of admire GM for trying to hit one over the far wall. I mean, they had the bodies built in Italy and flown in specially equipped 747s to Detroit/Hamtramck to be mated to a chassis! What unmitigated audacity!
I found this Allante parked on well-to-do Main Street in Zionsville, which is just northwest of Indianapolis. I was in Zionsville to enjoy its annual sidewalk festival, which you can see burgeoning behind this red Caddy.
I’m guessing at this Allante’s year because I failed to photograph the notices taped to the side windows, which I’m sure told the whole story. D’oh! The Caddy cognoscenti will please examine the photographed details and correct me in the comments if I’m wrong.
Related reading: 1992 Allante, 1993 Allante, Allante being towed
Jim,
I just plugged in the license plate of the Allante (“BD”) into Carfax and ran a quick check on it.
You’re off by just a year. That car is actually a 1990. And if it was a 1993 it would have said “32V Northstar” on the decklid.
Fixed. Thanks!
Nice car
It is priced right around what the contemporary Mercedes SL500’s are going for, so I don’t think the Caddy has done too bad in depreciation compared to its direct competition.
I think it could be any year from a 1990 to a 1992. I’m don’t believe there is a way to tell from any of these pictures. It does have the optional digital gauge package, I wonder if it has the hardtop too?
I was also thinking that the depreciation doesn’t seem that bad.
Problems aside, I still like these.
Phil, IIRC, the digital dash was standard and the analog was optional.
Exactly, I was going to add the same comment, I’ve see the $30,000 more expensive contemporary 500SL going for less.
Same thoughts. You can find BMW 850s for the price of this Allante as well. Luxury cars just depreciate worse than medium priced cars. The original owner of something like this wanted the latest and greatest and the following owners have to be ever more wary about the maintenance headaches and parts availability something like this would need(otherwise wouldn’t we all be driving Ferrari 328s that on average cost about the same as a loaded Focus?)
Exactly, someday though, I will own what is possibly the cheapest V12 car in the world.
The once mighty…XJS!
And suffer all the way no doubt.
I’ll start praying for your soul now. You’re gonna need all the help you can get.
Don’t buy the XJS! I had one NEW – an XJS HE – as a company car and it was an utter disaster! Hopeless – every time you walked up to it you did not have any confidence that a) it would start and/or b) it would reach its destination. No car I have ever owned, new or used, has ever been as unreliable as the XJS. Horrible by every measure and a real expression of just how bad British manufacture had become. Every week that car found a new way to disappoint me..make that every day. Then there are the basic design faults – no headroom, no rear room at all, cheap and nasty switch gear borrowed from Leyland Marinas and other low-rent cars, feeble air con, a cooling system that gave up at the slightest indication it had to work for a living…i could go on (and on). There were so many problems it would not be possible to “fully sort” them. Unless you are really into self harm in a major way, just dont do it. Any mid ’80’s Italian car is a paragon of reliability by comparison and I should know – at the same time I had the XJS I had a private car, an Alfasud Sprint and it was no where near as much trouble as that XJS.
Take the easy way out,find a mate with a working one and borrow it occasionally.
I can see you in a crinkly grille XJC 5.3. Although I’m picturing Cesare Danova dressed as Giovanni Cappa behind the wheel.
+10
I think this would have been a nicer car if it had just been longer in the body. The front end has held up well.
Almost bought one used in 1995. Practicality came back and hit me in the head and bought a new 1996 Accord.
Even with the 4.5L, the Allante was a quick and satisfying drive. The driver’s seat is a nice place to be even with the digital dash.
The only issue for some folks was that it was an expensive FWD Caddy when you could get a gently used Mercedes SL for not much more and get RWD and the 3-Pointed Star.
If I ever get the $$ and extra room in the garage, I’d like to have a non-Northstar Allante someday.
Okay, you made a great decision. But RWD sucks except on a racetrack. How can anybody like RWD as an everyday driver. Oh, and yes, we do have snow sometime.
I am hooked on RWD, I think FWD is ok for a rental or a non performance sedan.
I guess I should admit to only driving on snow for about a half an hour in my whole life. 1991 in a Oldsmobile Bravada I rented in Reno Nevada. It did snow here in miami on January 7 1977, it melted pretty quick on pavement, much longer on grass and all the plants turned brown.
A real driving/car enthusiast knows that rwd is where it’s at.
I wouldn’t say RWD is only for a racetrack, but front wheel drive is a lot more practical in poor conditions. For a daily driver, FWD is a no-brainer. For a summer toy, I’d take RWD every time.
My ATS is AWD, which I think is better than FWD in snow/icy conditions, and better than FWD on dry pavement. My 2007 SRX handled better than my 2002 Seville. The ATS is the best handling car (except for the 84 and 86 Corvettes) that I have owned.
I’ve only ever put two cars in the ditch in winter, one a Maxima, and the other my Mom’s old Quest. Not once in my RWD Cougar in the 8 years I’ve had it.
FWD is a scam.
I live in mountain snow conditions several months each year. Our RWD 325i was no problem in conditions that gave Civics and Caravans trouble.
Zionsville… nice town. I seem to remember that there was a very small Rolls Royce private dealership there around 1986 or earlier. Can you confirm that? Could be a short but interesting write up.
I was thinking the same thing, I remember an article about it in Car and Driver a back around 1990 or so, it was called Albers Rolls Royce-Bentley. I was one of the smallest independent Rolls dealers anywhere.
I don’t think Albers Rolls-Royce was among the smallest Rolls-Royce dealerships. You must remember they were all small at that time. A lot of people from all over the country would only buy from Herman Albers and he was the only man allowed to put a wrench on many owner’s cars. They also sold a lot of parts to telephone and Internet customers. Albers was the oldest Rolls-Royce dealership until it became a Bentley dealership.
Yes, Albers Rolls-Royce. At one time, it was the only Rolls dealer in Indiana. It is still there, now as Bentley Zionsville. It apparently lost the Rolls franchise with the 2003 brand split. I understand that they had quite a far-reaching parts operation. They are interesting in that they never dualled with any other brand of vehicle.
Not only in Indiana. When the C&D article was written, the Zionsville RR dealership was one of only three independent RR dealerships in the entire US (the other two being in LA and NYC, as one might surmise). It was quite a ’boutique’ place, a small, informal (but impeccably maintained) shop nestled off a side street, like something you might find in, say, Carmel-by-the-Sea in California.
I thought there was, or used to be, an independent Rolls-Bentley dealer in Palm Beach? Even the one down here in Miami is combined with Cadillac and BMW.
It’s on First Street, which until a couple years ago was State Road 334. So not quite a side street, but still, 334 was a minor enough highway that you would never mistake this dealership for being on the beaten path.
Yeah, not long after the C&D article, I made a two hour trip just to drive by the place. It was easy to miss and fascinating to see this modest, unassuming, wooden-sided building not far from the road with surrounding trees and shrubs and the words ‘ROLLS ROYCE’ on the side. I’m not certain the lettering was even illuminated. You could have easily mistaken it for a mom-and-pop bed and breakfast.
In a day of huge parking lots and imposing steel and chrome, multi-story buildings, that place in Zionsville was about as ‘anti-dealership’ as you could get and, frankly, was befitting of a quaint, personal, English country shop, even though they were selling and servicing one of the most expensive automobiles in the world.
I remember a picture from the C&D article, with about 5 or 6 cars, including a Corniche and a Turbo R all sort of stuffed in one small showroom with the prices displayed on one of the felt boards that you pressed in the characters, like the kind restaurants used to tell you to “please seat yourself” or the kind banks used to use to display rates. It was interesting, the owner seemed to really have a passion for the brand and an incredible attention to detail, the article mentioned how all the screws on the light switches all faced north-south.
In the late 80s, I knew a guy who bought a car there – a brand new bright red Bentley Turbo R. He was the client of one of the lawyers I worked with. My boss got to ride in it, but I unfortunately, did not. I was told that there was something not quite right with the way it ran at first, and that Albers had been unable to get it tuned just right. Rolls Royce flew an engineer to Indianapolis and drove to the owner’s house with a loaner, and asked to borrow the Bentley, presumably to take it in to Albers’ service area for diagnosis. At the end of the day, the Bentley was returned, running flawlessly.
Doesn’t surprise me, they were pretty bad cars considering how expensive they were. Nice interiors, nice paint, oh la la appearance, but shit cars overall. I’ve heard similar tales of woe.
I knew Herman Albers, he was a fascinating person. He had an ability to remember numbers that was unbelievable. He could give you the serial number of any car he had sold along with the sale date and much more. At the time the magazine article mentioned was written Albers Rolls-Royce was the oldest Rolls-Royce dealership in the US. One morning during the summer of 1997, after he and I had sat up all night talking at a national Rolls-Royce Owner’s Club meet, I was witness to a man walking up to him and asking for the part number for a rubber stop for the bonnet of a 1980 Rolls-Royce Silver Wrath. Without delay Herman recited the part number. Herman died too young of a heart attack in a warehouse across the street from his dealership. He was a truly fascinating man that was very human. The magazine article is worth looking up and reading. It tells the story of a small town dealership and a time that is gone forever. The dealership in the story just happens to be Rolls-Royce.
I’ve searched and couldn’t find the article online. If it’s available (or someone has access to it), it would be a great addition to a CC-worthy Roller if one were ever spotted in the wild.
I just happen to have the 1992 C&D yearbook with that article in it, I’ll have to scan it later.
You are correct! I haven’t been through there in quite some time myself, but if memory serves me I do believe it is no more.
Wifey and I prefer the Cadillac XLR – another car we can’t and won’t afford, but, oh so beautiful!
I liked the Allante when they came out, but I heard that they had problems with the body, but can’t recall what they were. Doesn’t matter now.
I recall liking these quite a lot when they came out. I would have to check, but I have photos of a red one of these as well, wonder if its the same car. If so, I’m sure JG’s pictures are better. I have seen a couple of these out and about, a silver one and a white one as I recall.
Saw a high school aged guy driving one of these a few weeks ago, one of the first days when top down motoring was doable around here.
It looked to be in very nice shape, and he looked like he drove it in a way that said he wasn’t going to beat the tar out of it. He even slowed down for a rough section of road, something the middle aged hag in the Mercedes SUV that was going to opposite direction didn’t do. It looked like she slashed mud all over him as she drove by, including in the car…
The Allante is one of the few cars of its era that I like, despite being FWD and having a manually operated convertible top. I always thought the clear taillights and the third brake light integrated into the Cadillac logo on the trunk were neat touches.
Initially, part of their appeal for me was just that they were so rare that it was exciting to spot one in the wild. I also didn’t know until much later that they are FWD, and how awful the Northstar engine in the 1993 model is.
Most Allante’s were built with the 4.5 engine and even the 4.1 was probably fixed before the Allante went into production. The Northstar engine was mostly a good design, but the head bolts need replaced with ones that will hold. A used Northstar is probably an iffy buy at best. I did not have problems with my Aurora’s engine, nor my 2nd gen Northstar Sevilles engine. But the RWD Northstars are the best northstars by far and as far as I know did not have problems keeping their head bolts anchored.
It is definitely a 1990.
I just saw one on Craigslist asking 11K ” Runs well but overheats.” Picture shows a Northstar engine. Pass.
If you want something like the Allante, but less troublesome, I suggest the Buick Reatta. I owned a 91, but not a convertible. I actually think that RWD cars are better for handling though.
do these come with Teves II brakes as well? have fun fixing those
A new head gasket and updated replacement head bolts will be in order for that car I’m sure.
Ads like that infuriate me.
“Runs well, but overheats” “Runs well, but transmission slips between 2nd and 3rd” “Runs well at idle, but heavy knocking after driving at highway speeds”
In other words, it doesn’t run well.
“Runs well, but won’t start.” “Runs well, but if you drive over 50 the engine will blow up.” Idiots! It either runs well or it doesn’t.
Still a nice looking car, even if it does suffer from GM’s patented big-butt syndrome.
A friend of mine had one of these cars. They were junk. Something was always not working and the dealership never knew how to fix it. His first one was soooo weak. The dealership convinced him to “trade up” with the larger engine was introduced. It was just a faster piece of junk. Given these cars low production numbers the depreciation is terrible, but then again there is a reason of those low production numbers, they didn’t sale. They are more plastic than anything else. They did not even give the car a color keyed parade boot, just a big black piece of plastic. Having witnessed my friend’s troubles I would not walk across the street for the finest example of one of these.
they were made in Italy…
Strangely enough these started out in 1987 with what Cadillac should have done in the first place: a port injected version of the HT 4100 with 170 HP instead of 125-130 in the rest of there lineup soon to be replaced with a 200 HP version of the improved 4.5. From what I understand these engines were better than the earlier HT 4100’s with TBI and had better stiffer blocks with more ribbing and improved gaskets and torque to yield bolts.
V12 BMW 7s that cost Quarter million$ here new now command 4k for a mint one so this Caddy hasnt done too bad.
These are appealing. If you could by this for $7,800 and get several years out of it as a summer car, it would actually be a deal. A roll of the dice.
I doubt this car would be easy to do a powertrain swap like you could in the past. A modern 3.6 V-6 with 305 HP would suit this car very well.
I would think if you walked up to this seller and handed him 60 one hundred dollar bills he would throw the keys and title at you as he ran off. The last one I saw locally, about 5 years ago, went for $4,500 but it’s paint job had not held up as good as the one in this article. It is likely in those years you would spend much more in repair bills than what you paid for the car.
So your saying it’s like pretty much every old luxury car?
No, worse! You can still get parts for old luxury cars. Luxury is not a word I would use to describe the ownership of one of these cars:) They were not dependable right out of the box. The dealership should have sent a follow up car to escort the buyers home.
Given that the FWD engineering on the Allante was probably common across a number of GM cars, an engine swap is probably not an insurmountable task. Unfortunately, you’d probably be doing all the research the first time.
The 4.5 engine in this car has 270 lb-ft of torque. The 3.6 OHC V6 is rated at around 275 lb-ft, so there is no real advantage in putting a 3.6 in it. Its not the horsepower that make the wheels go round and round, its the torque. If you really want more power, then the 93 with the northstar is best. Replacement northstars seem to be available for under $5000 installed. An early Allante with the 4100 might be worth upgrading, but probably not easy.
You don’t think an extra 100hp over the 4.5 would make a large difference?
Putting the 3.6 in this would bring it right up to Northstar numbers as far as performance goes, except maybe for fuel mileage, where it would blow the Northstar away.
The 4.5 has the peak horsepower at 4400 with peak torque at 3200. The 3.6 (circa 2009) has about 304 hp @6400 with 273 lb-ft of torque @ 5200. If you also add the 6 speed transaxle then yes performance will be greatly improved if you push the engine to the limit. For normal driving, keeping the engine under 4000 RPMs, probably not real difference.
What I do see is that getting the Allante’s electronics to talk with the 3.6 engine/transaxle management computers to be a serious amount of work.
The 4.5’s torque at 4400 RPMs is under 240 lb-ft. The 3.6 has yet to reach the peak torque, so if you keep the 3.6 wound up to the 4000-7000 range, you would have more torque and power. The northstar has 295 lb-ft of torque @4400, with 300 hp @6000. At 6000 the torque is still 260 lb-ft.
If the Allante were a serious sports car, then maybe it would be worth some sort of transplant, but I think that the 4.5 is a decent engine. Even the 4100 is not bad with 170 hp.
I should have pointed out that the 3.6 has about 250 lb-ft of torque at the horsepower peak. I think that the northstars performance will match the 3.6, so I think a 93 Allante would be easier than replacing one of the pushrod engines with the 3.6. Both pushrod engines have tuned port injection and are far livelier than the base engines on the rest of the Cadillac line.
Wiki has some performance numbers:
4.5 0-60 7.9 secs, 1/4 mile 16.3 secs and 83 MPH
northstar 6.4 to 60 MPH and quarter mile in 15.0 secs at 93 MPH
0-100 is much faster with the northstar. So the 4.5 runs out of power at about 85 MPH or so.
It’s a lot more impressive than the Chrysler/Maserati effort recently featured despite it’s faults.I’d still not dare buy one though
Please enjoy these videos.
I like how the assurance plan outlasted the run of the model.
I wouldn’t really want one, but I thought it looked great in the Cadillac Style commercials when the blonde driving it would pass the other, pouty blonde in the Benz convertible. The Benz looked kind of fogey (it helped that I think it was brown), and watching this bright red Allante whip by it was a nice sense of Cadillac trying to make a comeback.
An ideal Cadillac lineup at the time in my eyes: an Allante with a more powerful engine, a Seville updated to the ’92+ body with a high powered 4.9, and a Brougham in 1990-92 guise with the LT1 (or a new, FI version of the 368 and gas guzzler tax be damned) and airbags. I’d buy all 3.
You know, these things were a flop. Overpriced, totally crazy assembly logistics, and GM lost credibility and money with each one. But they’re so damn pretty…
I imagine you could find a quite nice one as a summer cruiser, and for cheap too.
I dunno about the lost credibility, to me, this was a symbol, at least a sign of life at Cadillac, right or wrong these symbolize the turning point between the 4-6-8, 4100 V8, Cimarron, 1986 E/K downers, towards the climb back up for Cadillac from its 1981-1986 depths. Think about it, from the Allante, it got better, the new Seville/Eldorado in 1992, and the Northstar.
True. And I always thought of the ’92 Eldo/Seville as an Allante coupe and sedan. Very similar–and attractive–styling.
As has been pointed out in other articles, the problems with the FWD northstar engine really clouds the 90’s for Cadillac. Yes, the 92 Seville is a much nicer car than the 86, but………
Then we get the Catera.
Well look at it this way, the Catera laid the groundwork for the CTS.Yes, I know about the Nstar problems, but look at it this way, a decade prior Cadillac had a crappy, 125hp low performance, troublesome engine, the Northstar eliminated at least 2 of those issues, it was a sign of life.
Your thinking is very similar to what Cadillac was thinking, not only with the Catera, but also the Cimarron.
+1
A climb back up?? I think you hit the point when you described it something Cadillac did that was right or wrong. That seemed to be their motto and look where it has gotten them. It was another stumble down the hole of turning into an insignificant brand, not a climb back “up”.
I have an Allante. It’s a decent car and has been WAYYYYYYYYYyyyyy more reliable than I expected.
Still, I don’t think it originally was worth like double the price of a Trofeo or Mark VII and dang near the same as a C4 ZR1.
Unmitigated audacity eh? Did Frank Zappa own one of these?
I wondered if anybody would catch the reference!
I dunno, it just doesn’t scream Cadillac. Honestly, last time I saw one on the road I thought it was a LeBaron convertible at first glance. Forgive me…
An old 70s Eldorado drop top is much cooler as a cruiser, as would an 80s Eldo Biarritz for a coupe if you want a Caddy. If you have to be saddled with the Northstar, I’d rather just have a that permutation of Eldo as well.
If I were in the market for one of these little two seat roadster convertible things, I’d rather have the comparable Mercedes SL. Hell, you can get a V12 in some models! I need something like this like I need a hole in my head but that at least is pretty sweet.
I would go for an older mid-sixties Eldorado convertible (or 59 for the fins). The RWD northstars are good, and the XLR would make a better choice than the Allante. Cadillac’s credibility was still on a downward path and the Allante did not do much to reverse this. The 92 Seville stopped the downward spiral, but then we get the Catera. The reversal of the downward spiral really started with the first CTS.
If you like ’em, now’s the time!
Oh look. The Italians have been caught flogging off their old designs again. A 1987 Maserati Biturbo. Notorious for being……..Italian; unreliable and badly made. You could not give one of these away nowadays.
I think that just where the Allante fits into Cadillac’s long demise really depends on what you think the high water mark was. To me the high point was the Series 90’s (the V16’s) of the 30’s. The V16’s were very high end cars. After WW2 Cadillac’s high end was really the low end of the line before WW2. I think the Eldorado Brougham was a half baked attempt to restore a high end model. The Allante is also a half baked attempt. After the Allante things did not seem to get worse, but also not really better with the northstars blowing their head bolts.
I agree with almost everything you posted. The V16’s were truly world class cars and so beautiful.