I remember among all the hoopla circulating over the Pontiac G8 when it was released back in 2008, the phrase used to describe it by some media publications such as MotorTrend, was “The poor man’s BMW 5-Series”. With prices starting at just under $30K for a 361-horsepower 6.0L V8 model, the G8 was certainly a bargain compared to the nearly $60K BMW 550i (whose 4.8L V8 made 1 less horsepower by the way).
The G8 of course, barely made a ripple in the market, its life cut short after less than two years, a result of the decision to terminate the Pontiac brand altogether. Despite the “poor man’s BMW 5-Series” label, the G8 was a more realistic competitor to cars such as the Dodge Charger and Ford Taurus SHO, and not German luxury-sports sedans.
I myself was intrigued by the G8 at the time, impressed by the performance it had to offer, as well as its styling. The G8’s styling was clean and athletic, something quite uncharacteristic of most Pontiacs produced during my lifetime, as after all, it was an Australian design to begin with.
Little changed beyond the Pontiac-specific grilles/badging and left-hand drive over the VE Holden Commodore, which was released two years earlier. The Pontiac G8 was even built alongside the Holden in Elizabeth, South Australia.
Costing half as much as the 550i and still only two-thirds as much as a 528i, the Pontiac’s discount was naturally felt somewhere, and predictably this area was the interior. Materials weren’t glaringly cheap and they were suitable for the G8’s price point, but along with the interior design, it was clear that the G8 was no BMW competitor on the inside, and in every way the “poor man’s” version.
Given my taste in cars, I think it’s obvious which one of these cars I prefer. But at the end of the day, the G8 was the first and only Pontiac which I ever found appealing to my nature, and that alone says something about its very different qualities from other Pontiacs. The discontinuation of the G8 and Pontiac wasn’t the complete end of the line for the car itself in the U.S., as the succeeding generation Commodore also made its way over from Australia as a V8-powered, rear-wheel drive performance sedan. Now sold as the blander Chevrolet SS, however, the magic and personality of the G8 have unfortunately been lost.
Is the BMW the replacement for your Acura?
I was optimistic about the G8 as well – it’s too bad it never caught on. At least we still have the SS – still available with a stick to boot! Out of curiosity, in what sense have “the magic and personality of the G8 been lost?” I have never heard the SS described as bland, well, except for its styling.
You’ll just have to wait and see 🙂
The G8 was supposed to be Pontiac’s White Knight, injecting new life and a greater purpose into the brand (when have we heard that story before). In addition to its performance (which the SS has), the G8 had attractive and recognizable styling, and stood out as a memorable offering.
The SS on the other hand, get’s lost in Chevy’s lineup of lookalike sedans. It may offer the best performance of any Chevy sedan, but has the dullest styling. It doesn’t help that Chevrolet gives the car zero promotion here either. The G8 was a car that many people seemed to care about, the SS, not so much.
The factory the SS is built in is going to close, which will be the end of the SS.
I know the yellow Cyclops-eye Mercury LN7 is yours. It just screams Brendan Saur. You finally decided it was time to own a true CC. Good man. 🙂
Ooops, it looks like my secret might be exposed. I must stress the “might be” 🙂
I was lucky enough to drive an SS with the stick and Brembos when I worked in a used car dept. It was wonderful! They thought the trunk wasnt opening so I had to drive it to and back from a Chevy dealer (turns out they didnt know how to use the keyfob. Sigh) but I made it worth my time ?
Just for kicks, I checked KBB prices for a 2008 550i and G8 GT(w/ 100k miles and no added options). KBB shows the 550i at $10,541 and the G8 GT at $11,640 (both “good condition”).
I guess that speaks both to the relative rarity of G8 GTs, as well as BMW’s severe depreciation curve.
The Pontiac GTO was another car I liked, which arrived before the G8. I believe the GTO was also a Holden, with a similarly not-awful interior.
Wow, that is actually pretty incredible. I don’t know if these resale numbers are more of an indictment of BMW or a heroic performance by the Pontiac, but I would never have guessed this.
Indictment of BMW would be my vote. Trust me, you don’t want a “Cyberdyne-era” BMW after it comes off warranty, and the prices on well used examples reflect that.
Ditto.
I’m guessing the scarcity of the G8. And its likely cheaper repair/maintenance costs.
There was a time that the G8 GT and the G8 GXP had the highest values of any GM car, with the exception of the Corvette. Even today, eight years after it’s cancellation, the G8s still have a better resale than, most everything…
While it’s a lot of fun to bag on GM, they did a lot of right things with the G8. If only Pontiac had survived the Automotive Task Force, I wonder what great things would have appeared. Oh well.
Wow – I was just about to ask “What were resale values like?”, because here in the UK a big or pseudo-prestige car from a mundane brand loses value in a terrifying manner, which makes people even more likely to buy German, as residuals will be better – and it was the only reason I could think of to go for the BMW over the G8.
I just sold my beloved 2015 Chevy SS, black on black, six speed manual. Only for financial concerns, I bought that car new and planned to drive it forever. I’ll likely do a COAL on that thing one day. What a beast.
…and yes, I’m a Bimmer-head also – E90 330i sitting at home too.
Brendan, this is a really great comparison piece. These two cars almost perfectly summed up the philosophies of their respective countries. If you want a V8 engine in your German car, be prepared to pay dearly for it. But here in the US, a big V8 engine at a reasonable price is almost a birthright.
I was a fan of the G8 when it came out, and still am. I loved the idea of a sizeable rwd V8 sedan, especially one you could get with a stick (IIRC). It’s too bad these didn’t come out a couple of years before they did. Sort of like with the SD1 this morning, 2008 was a really terrible time to come out with a big fast V8 sedan. The car never had a chance to find a market before everything went to hell and Pontiac was killed.
Thanks James! And I’ll be be honest when I say that the 2008 financial crisis completely escaped my mind when writing this, but that’s a very good point and a definite contribution to this car’s less than impressive sales. I guess I always just associate this time with a blow to SUV sales, but in reality all car sales suffered, especially ones that were larger and less fuel efficient.
It’s unfortunate to forget the worst financial crisis since The Great Depression so fast, when its effects are still showing in some countries. And it looks to me some companies already forgot about it.
The G8 in another example of a car from GM that was just too late to market. I think the notion of a well-priced, high performance RWD sedan could have been very appealing, but by the time these arrived most of the intended market would have completely dismissed Pontiac as an irrevocably damaged brand.
That said, for its price, I thought it was well done, and from an exterior styling standpoint, better looking than the Bangled E60 5 Series.
Its a shame that Pontiac got killed before the G8 ever had a chance. In a 2 door variant, this is what the GTO should have been all along, and a ute variant came VERY close to being an El Camino successor. The GTO wasn’t a bad car at all…the styling was 10 years too late, and it had no entry level V6 variant.
Pontiac should have stayed around as the performance brand, it just needed a much scaled down lineup. The G8, GTO, and ute as well as the G6 which was still selling very well, and the Solstice would have been MORE than enough to keep the brand viable. The bottom feeder G5/3 econo junk tarted up as Pontiacs were lame, and the Grand Prix was just another me-too midsizer by then. Those were the only things that were unnecessary.
With that line up they’d pretty much be where Dodge/Chrysler is at today but with a Solstice instead of a Minivan.
G8 – Charger/300
GTO – Challenger
G6 – Chrysler 200
Solstice vs Minivan
Unfortunately it doesn’t sound sustainable. I think the Mopar lineup/selection is better than the Pontiac equivalent and they are having serious issues themselves with those products.
Yep, Chrysler (the Cerberus version) got one thing right. Make them all Chrysler Corporation stores, not a specific brand. Many times I wonder if GM had done the same thing that Pontiac could have survived.
I also agree that Mopar cars will be extinct before long. Maybe it’s better this way.
I was at the repair shop I take my car to this week and there in the parking lot of an adjacent business was an orange G8.
Folks are aware? The G8 came in a lower price point with an available V6 engine? That car had a 3800 engine but don’t know how similar the Australian/Holden 3800 is to the American/Buick 3800.
Agree, the Chevy SS is a very anonymous looking car, it looks like an Impala from a few years ago.
And BTW, before the Chevy SS, the same car was “sold” as the Chevrolet PPV…police pursuit vehicle. A very small town north of Jacksonville has one for the chief, all the other department’s cars are the “typical” police/FWD sedan.
The older Commodores had the Buick 3800, this generation (and presumably the G8) had a 3.6 – not sure what GM’s pet name for that was.
IIRC, when I was living in Oz the 3.6 had fairly recently replaced the 3800 for the reason that it should get much better MPG – but it didn’t really, and reliability/durability were being questioned by some – quite important given that it was supposed to sell as a taxi,cop car, and commercial vehicle in the case of the ute, and in previous incarnations the wagon, although this generation was more of a “sportwagon” leaving that market to Ford.
Slight correction. The Police Pursuit was actually a modified Holden Caprice, which is a longer wheelbase version of the Commodore. In Australia the Caprice is popular with limo operators. Police a cross Australia use Commodores (your Chev SS) as well as Falcon’s and even Toyota Camry’s. Camry’s just don’t look right as cop cars though and many police claim they are too small.
Of course, Australian production of all three will stop within 2 years. Various police forces (there is one polIce force in each state and also the Federal Police) are trialling all manner of cars as replacements, from Hyundais to Volvos and even BMW’s. Indeed the VIP protection unit of the Federal Police now use BMW X5 and VW Toureg vehicles. This happened at about the same time as the Prime Ministers fleet was changed to Armoured BMW 750 Ali’s.
They could stockpile Falcons, which (possible urban myth alert) British cops did when the Rover SD1 went out of production.
I’m with you one the use of Camrys. I saw a police one last week, and just could not take it seriously. It might cut it as a general runabout, but lacks the presence for a patrol vehicle.
Criminals often steal an Audi RS4 / RS6 Avant (the wagon) for their “job”. Plenty of room for 4 big guys plus enough cargo space for the loot and / or weapons. And above all, they’re ultra-fast, so I’d say the most ideal getaway-cars.
You really have to wonder why the police’s vehicle of choice is a VW Golf Variant (the wagon)
2.0 TDI…
As tonito said, it had the corporate “HF” OHC 3.6 V6, and not the hi-po one they put into Cadillacs.
IMO, a big reason the G8 flopped was because the V6 package was really not competitive with Accord V6, Maxima, and so on in price and performance and fuel-economy and interior refinement and etc. This car had no volume market (however small they intended), the *only* reason to buy one was to get the high-end V8 models.
G8 V6s were being fire-saled for more than a year afterward. On the other hand, the GXP model received extra orders, which is why GM brought it back as the Chevy SS.
The GXP version with the optional manual transmission is the one that retains value.
Sad thing is, GM had plans for Pontiac to become a niche performance brand:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/08/tales-from-the-grave-a-push-for-pontiac-to-be-the-performance-division-was-well-underway/
I like the current Impala but it threw a spanner in the works for the Commodore’s return to the US, forcing the SS to be a more expensive, low-volume model.
Pontiac WAS a niche performance brand which GM destroyed by producing fleets of rental car fodder such as ribbed-cladding GrandAm’s, Aztek and the G-5 amongst others. A sad end to a storied career. The overweight Solstice Miata competitor sounded promising at first until reality set in and the neo-GTO never really took off sales-wise which should have been all the warning anyone in charge needed (changing the engine to a much more powerful one a couple of years in probably annoyed many early buyers too, helping to destroy the resale value/demand). Then, like several other cars from various makers, the G-8 only became somewhat desirable once it was cancelled (along with the whole brand) and for some reason GM decided to create the SS while spending exactly zero dollars to actually promote it in any way or even just to display it at many auto shows.
The car that the cladding onslaught can be traced back to was the 85-91 Grand Am which actually looed great with it on and the car was a sales success
I think Pontiac just got too hung up on the notion that cladding equated sales success and cladded up every car with it and that was the end
I actually like the current (and final) generation Commodore in its higher trim levels, and as I’ve said before, I think it would make a nice flagship Buick sedan.
Going along the lines of what Jim said, as much as some of our enthusiasts who were fond of Pontiac’s performance cars from the ’60s and ’70s, by the 1980s and onward, Pontiacs were little more than Chevy with more “expressive” (and often uglier) styling, or style at all as most Chevys were blander than a manilla envelope.
Having not been around in Pontiac’s “glory years”, all I ever knew Pontiac for was for over-styled, mostly economy cars, with acres of ugly plastic cladding and cheap interiors. By the mid-2000s the damage had simply been done.
Pontiac had always been Pontiac like the decades before, with consistent specialty offerings like Firebird, GTO, Bonneville and G8, G6 convertible/GXP. They just happened to sell too many other Cavalier derivatives and similar models at the same time and they may have a higher concentration somewhere.
IMO, the reason why Pontiac could never regain it’s former glory was CAFE constraints. When the whole corporation has to meet a specific fuel mileage goal, dealers need a G3 or G5 to keep the corporate average up.
In addition, there was(is) so much dealer envy, anytime one division got something good, all of the other divisions wanted it too. Enter badge engineering, or GM through all of the 1980’s.
As someone who was buying Pontiacs through to the end (I have a 2009 Pontiac G6 Sport Sedan) they were more than a dressed up Chevy. With Pontiac gone, I never have seen myself as a Chevy guy and I don’t have the dollars to be a Buick guy, either. I’ve started to look at Dodges again, as they fit my mentality better than Chevys (or anything else for that matter). But it won’t be long before Dodge is gone, too.
I don’t know what I will do then…
Pontiac was that way for my lifetime as well, but I knew what they used to be, I paid attention to the old Pontiac’s at car shows and admired them in car books. To me even with the cladded up junk of the 90s that was still a more equitable brand, since Chevy/Olds/Buick were all equally damaged goods as far as I was concerned in the same time periods.
Pontiac’s business model in the 80s/90s was mostly selling “sporty cars” to younger women.
Then women started switching from sporty cars to small CUVs (and Priuses). Pontiac responded with a CUV that was covered with all their classic “sporty” junk, and we all know how that turned out.
GM brand management was so ossified they were still trying to sell 1980s cars in the 2000s. After Aztek, Pontiac had no mission. There’s a lot of reasons Buick survived and Pontiac didn’t, but a big one was that GM Bozos didn’t really have to do anything different. Modern Buicks are better executed, but pretty much the same old Buick.
No wonder I saw some sketches of Pontiac in GM Warren Tech Center last winter. Anyway, I saw many other things harder to reason also but the only thing I had a clue after almost a year is the Chevrolet Bolt.
unlike past poor man’s BMW Pontiacs of the past the G8 actually looked better than the bangled 5 series. Was sad these got saddled with the circumstances they did, these were easily the best car GM was making circa 2008.
The Hotter versions of the Commodore from HSV served up in the UK can get away from M5s around a track some had a supercharged 6.2 Chevy up front and are quite qwik, a shame they failed in the US when all we ever hear out her is how much yous like V8 RWD cars with some grunt.
When I first saw these, my mind first went to the G8 being a new Grand Ville or Parisienne. When I actually got a closer look, not so much….
In a perfect world Pontiac would have put real names on this car:
G8 V6 –> Catalina
G8 GT –> Bonneville
G8 GXP –> Super Duty
This car faced so many problems, you rank them.
1. Pontiac Brand Image. It’s hard to convince buyers that this is an upscale, sporty contender when it shares showroom space with rebadged Aveos and Cavalier derivatives sold to people whose houses have wheels. (This is the problem the Hyundai Genesis/Equus are having) Similarly, people who really just want an economy/family car with a little pizzazz aren’t willing to stretch to G8 prices. Pontiac’s market for the 80s and 90s was, Chevy with a little spice.
Additionally, this may have been a bright star in the Pontiac lineup but it shared showroom space with cars that were mediocre at best. Honda/BMW don’t make cars which stray from their brand images and quality. All of their cars are consistent.
2. Sleepy styling. They didn’t go in the traditional Pontiac direction of slathering it with plastic ribbed trim but it doesn’t look premium, and looks somewhat Malibu/Hyundai Sonataish.
3. A dull, meaningless name. GTO was better, that meant something. G8 means you’ll get protesters who don’t wash their hair and throw stones at McDonald’s.
4. It was derived from the Catera/Omega, with Australian Build quality. People who suffered Post Catera Stress Disorder (like me) violently warned people against these. A Catera was a loathsome experience and Australian cars do not have a good reputation among those who know, like my grandfather’s second wife who came from Poland to Australia.
5. Lack of promotion, generally. GM never bothered to find a target market for the thing.
6. The Charger/300 came out at a lower price point, with better performance, more promotion, better reliability with the good engine, and crushed it.
I want to address each of your points because there is a lot I disagree with.
1. It wasn’t really being positioned as a premium/near-luxury sedan anymore than a Dodge Charger was, so as awful as a G3 was, it wasn’t really holding the G8 back.
2. The G8 actually has really clean lines and muscular proportions, especially in person. It looks athletic without being over-the-top. I know taste is subjective but I don’t see anything Malibu/Sonata-ish.
3. Agreed. G8 was a dull name.
4. It was NOT derived from Catera/Omega. It was an all-new platform engineered in Australia. The Catera was a European platform, built in Europe; the VT-VZ Commodores were a heavily re-engineered version and vastly more reliable, with the 3.8 V6 standard. So saying, “I don’t trust a G8 because of the Catera” is like saying “I don’t trust cows because a bee stung me once”. And Australian build quality may not always be top-shelf, but Australian reliability is traditionally good.
Again, the Catera and G8 shared nothing so the argument is irrelevant.
5. There was a TV campaign but GM had so many brands competing for a shrinking pool of marketing money. So this point is fair.
6. The G8 V6 had much more power and torque than the Charger’s 2.7, and nearly identical figures to the 3.5. The V8 also had 361 hp and 385 ft-lbs, while the Charger V8 had 340 hp and 390 ft-lbs. The Charger was also around 100 lbs heavier. From what I’ve heard, the Charger had only a slight advantage in reliability. This was countered by worse handling and a cheaper interior. The Charger did have AWD as an option though which was an advantage.
Perhaps your most valid point is how poor the G8’s promotion was because clearly GM wasn’t able to inform you more clearly how the G8 bettered the Charger in almost every way.
Good comments.
From my perspective, people that see the G8 as bad, or a failure, missed what was going on at the time.
The G8, a big car with big engine options, was launched into an economic hurricane complete with high gas prices. In terms of bad luck, a repeat story of what happened to new Chrysler big cars in 1974.
During its time on the market, GM had its back against the wall, and it was announced that the Pontiac brand was going to die.
Promotion of the car was hamstrung by GM’s need to look pious regarding fuel economy while under the eye of the government.
All car sales were in the dumper.
Despite all this, the press and buyers generally found this to be a pretty good GM car. The styling and door count worked better for American tastes than the GTO, and GM sold these to some enthusiastic buyers.
I live in an area where a lot of people can afford to drive what they want, and was fortunate to breeze through the recession compared to most places. The G8 bordered on prolific on my area roads. People bought them while they still had the opportunity.
I don’t know the exact timelines, but the car sold about 15,000 copies in 2008, and another 23,000 in 2009. There appeared to be a sales SPIKE after it was announced in April 2009 that Pontiac was dead, and this followed the US recession stock market low in March that year.
Sales were likely also limited by GM’s closing down the Pontiac line – they were not looking to fill the supply chain.
The G8 was not a poor man’s BMW. It was the thinking man’s BMW – a good, fun car with some personality, without the service headaches and ridiculous prices.
I live in an area where people can afford to drive what they want and they don’t drive American sedans. Period. Seriously, if someone could explain GM’s brand strategy (other than Chevy, Cadillac, Saturn and GMC) after 1980 or so, I’d sure like to understand it. If Pontiac was the performance brand, why the Buick Grand National or Olds Quad4 Alero’s in road racing, and Aurora Indy car engines? And why the Aztek as a Pontiac and not a Chevy? Etc etc …
I agree with most of what you say. That interior though, that was the most underwhelming thing for me. It was pretty bland-certainly no worse than the 1st Generation Charger, but I don’t think it was up to its price point either.
The G8 was very impressive. Stylish, powerful and a worthy competitor to the Bimmer. Also made sense for GM to make it a Pontiac, in a attempt to revive that brands once sporty image.
Of course GM did what it always does. Almost no marketing effort was made to support the car and when sales unsurprisingly were poor, it was cut. Even with the demise of Pontiac, room should have been found at Buick for something like this. Of course Buick did have the Super, another good effort no one ever heard of.
Thanks for your response, William!
I’m just saying that, in terms of performance/near luxury, it was a big step up for the majority of Pontiac buyers and didn’t fit price or image wise with a lot of what Pontiac was selling. It’s pretty easy to upsell from a Sunfire to a Grand Am to a Grand Prix to a Bonneville but this was a harder upsell.
Looks are subjective. I think it’s dull looking.
Now I had always heard, based on C/D reviews and information, that it was Catera/Omega based or some derivative thereof, so that was either a personal piece of misinformation or a fairly widely held misconception.
Certainly if you avoided the 2.7 the G8 had an advantage over the Charger but the Charger is also a ride for the sort of people who rent wheels so that must say something good for its reliability. Question: did anything have a WORSE interior than the Charger? DaimlerChrysler interiors had to be the absolute worst of any manufacturer at the time. And the Charger had a lower price.
The Catera was on GM V platform. This is also the platform that the Pontiac GTO was on. Holden did use it until about 2006 or 7. Opel used it up to about 2003. The Pontiac G8 was the Zeta platform, which Holden moved V platform models to (Commodore and Caprice). The Chevrolet SS is a second generation Zeta.
GM’s Alpha platform was probably developed from this/or replaces this platform.
It was hilarious to read reviews of the new 2006 Commodore and how much better it was than the old Opel derived V-platform car. Things like the firewall now being welded and not glued in (German technology FTW!). A typical case of finding out the truth about what the writers felt about the old car once it was gone.
The Zeta sedan was intended to have been produced in North America, but that was cancelled fairly late in the program. Maybe one day the full story will come out with some more information as to what they had planned.
I am convinced that GM USA owed GM Australia an order. Somewhere back in time a GM USA executive promised to buy some cars or GM Australia took government subsidies and buried in the fine print was a promise to build a factory to export a minimum number cars to the United States. First they tried with the Monaro aka Pontiac GTO. Flop. Next came the G8 in 2008 the deal came through but was cut short by the financial meltdown. Fast forward to 2014 and this time they started with shipping over the Holden Caprice as a police patrol vehicle and a token quantity of the Commadore SS. As soon as they could hit the magic number agreed upon for US exports, Holden will close the factory. That’s my conspiracy theory and I’m sticking to it.