At 8:45 AM this morning, I left a comment at JPC’s 1965 Gladiator CC, referring to my previous Gladiator CC: Now if only one of us had had the guts to pop the hood and gotten a shot of the 327. Shortly thereafter, I closed up my laptop and got in my truck to pick up some 4×4 posts for a staircase I’m (slooowly) building. And as I pull into the lot at Jerry’s, what awaits me but an almost identical truck. And this time, I did get shots of the AMC 327 V8, as well as a couple of other technical goodies.
Although we generally refrain from posting about two similar vehicles close together, this one seemed to want to break that rule, although I’m going to just stick to a few technical details that don’t overlap JPC’s excellent historical overview of the Gladiator. Starting with that Rambler 327.
As we can see, this is almost the identical truck to the one found in Indiana, with a few exceptions. Their shades of green are a bit different, but that might be fading or a re-spray.
One obvious difference is in the transmissions. The ’65 that JPC found has the four speed, which would be either a Warner T-18 or 98A. This one obviously has a three speed column shift, which would presumably make it the Warner T90. Glads rated over 5600 lbs GVWR came with the even tougher Warner T89 three speed. More on transmissions later.
My real interest was what lay under the hood, as I haven’t seen or shot an AMC gen1 V8 engine since starting CC. I was standing there admiring the patina and the logo, hoping the owner might appear. And right on cue, he did.
Tyson is a young guy, and very much into his Gladiator. And he gladly popped the hood, and we talked a bit about the rather circuitous route this engine took to being re-united in a Kaiser vehicle, where it had originally been designed.
David Potter had been an engineer at Kaiser where he had been involved on the early development of a V8 engine, which Kaiser cars badly lacked. But when Kaiser restructured after buying Willys Motors in 1953, and moving production to Toledo, the V8 engine project was cancelled, and Potter found employment at AMC. He used his experience to get the new AMC-Rambler V8 into production in 18 months, faster than it would have taken typically.
The stark reality is that both this Rambler V8 and Studebaker’s V8 from 1951 were heavily based on the design of the 1949 Cadillac V8, the seminal modern OHV V8. The Studebaker is perhaps the more faithful scaled-down “copy”, as the Rambler V8 had two main differences; the Hudson-typical “X-style” crankshaft gallery and Nash-style rocker arms. But the basic architecture is all-too similar to the Cadillac.
Which probably explains to some extent why both the Studebaker and Rambler V8s quickly developed a rep for being pretty tough and durable engines. One could do worse than copy the Cadillac; ask Ford, which very much looked the other way with their heavy and inefficient Y-Block, and which they had to replace as their top V8 offering after only four years, with the much better FE engine.
These Rambler V8s (also built in 250 and 287 CID versions) are reasonably light (about 600lbs) given the time of their birth before modern thin-wall casting was developed. That’s a bit more than a Chevy small block, but not all that much (25-50 lbs). But that was still a fair chunk of iron for the fairly light Rambler unibodies to carry on their front wheels and did nothing to enhance their tendency to mediocre handling. But in a Jeep truck, it’s a non issue.
Anyway, it’s a bit ironic that Kaiser Jeep would end up buying this engine from AMC, whose origins date back to its own Engineering Department. And that AMC would replace it with a Buick V8 in 1968, until it was replaced by AMC’s newer V8s after AMC bought Jeep.
I couldn’t help but gravitate to the transmission-transfer case in the bed. It’s obviously a Warner T18, hooked up to the Dana Model 20 transfer case. I’ve never had a better look at one; quite the chunky little combo. Bet it weighs a couple of hundred pounds too.
I assumed that Tyson might be planning to install this in his truck to replace the three-speed. Not so; in fact he just had his three-speed rebuilt using heavier-duty gears. This four-speed and transfer case is from a 1977 Gladiator he just parted and junked, sine no one wanted to buy it, even though it was running and in similar condition to his truck. Hard to believe…Anyone need a Glad tail gate?
I was a bit intrigued by the output cover to the right and a bit below the main output for the drive shaft. Its purpose was soon divined: it’s the PTO (Power Take Off), used to drive other implements.
Like this gnarly original winch on the front, by Koenig. No wimpy little 12 V motor drives it.
The winch’s worm gears are in the round case on the upper left, and a series of shafts and U-joints snake their way along the engine to the transfer case.
The case that transfers the drive from the PTO outlet on the right, and feeds it to the left, just under the driveshaft, is (sort of) visible here, the silver-gray thing.
It’s operated by these two controls here. If that winch won’t pull you out of the ditch, it will just rotate the earth closer to you.
Time to get back to my staircase project; oops, it’s already five. Where did the time go, once again? Down the CC rabbit hole….
Related reading:
Funniest thing I’ve heard all day: “If that winch won’t pull you out of the ditch, it will just rotate the earth closer to you.”
Also: It’s your site, if anybody can bend the rules, you can.
Well, that’s all you’re really doing, if you use the truck as a reference point.
And that’s for anything really. If you use yourself or whatever vehicle you’re in as the center, what we call “moving” is just rotating the universe around you until the part of that’s nearby is the part you want.
Which is really trippy to think about late at night.
Yeah I opened the hood for him. It’s my truck.
I had a 67 J2000 with a Ramsey PTO winch and got suck headfirst downhill against a tree. The one time that winch couldn’t get me or someone else out of a pickle.
Good timing Paul, nice find and thanks to Tyson for being a good sport. Very rare to see these in Australia now, I dont think they sold that many originally.
Paul, I’m with Jim. What you said about the strength of the PTO winch was indeed, by far, the funniest thing I’ve heard all day.
Local farmer had one of the 70s models back during my childhood (80s into 90s) and it was severely rusty and beat. A friend of mine worked as a farmhand for him for a summer in high school and my friend said you had to hold the transfer case in 4H or 4L to get 4wd or it would pop out into neutral.
Much to our surprise in the late 90s he made the decision to fully restore the truck to greater than its former glory with chrome wheels and raised white letter tires. The old Gladiator became his “Sunday go to Church” truck and a 1994 Dodge 4×4 he had purchased became his new “mule”.
Funny how the tables turn…but good to hear of an old truck being repaid for a life of honest work. Especially an interesting one like one of these.
Quite a few of those AMC 327’s found their way into boats too, where they proved to be a reliable, high torque marine engine. Used to work on at least 1 or 2 a year back in the early ’90s. I want to say it was Graymarine that marinized them, but have not seen one in years now.
I like that PTO. Wish I had one. Good find Paul.
Nice find, Paul. And man that is one NASTY example of an already gnarly looking truck. That thing looks like it skips gasoline, you just melt down modern appliance cars and pour the slag into its fuel tank.
Too bad Tyson had to junk the ’77. By then they weren’t known as the Gladiator though….It would’ve been a J-10 or J-20. Ill even accept ‘Honcho’ at that point. As with the CJ’s ‘Renegade’ it was a model specific package that was popular enough to equate the whole line. 10-4’s were near unheard of. Golden Eagles were available on the J series, CJs and Cherokee. But either way, if the ’77 was even remotely salvageable, you just have to turn over the right stones. Wagoneers have the biggest following these days, likely due to availability but all FSJs have fans.
By the way, if you ever want to take a FSJ roadtrip….go visit Glide, OR. Its just outside of Roseburg. There is (or WAS, as I was last there about 7 yrs ago) a field with about 4 or 5 rhino grille Gladiators sitting in it, with some other various FSJs. All are in various degrees of neglect with plenty of patina but looked like they could all be saved. Definitely worth a photo shoot!
I wish I could move on the west coast! We just never see these around!
Jeep J2000 or Pontiac J2000. Which one would YOU rather have…
Respect the CC effect! What a great encounter, and I loved the guided tour of this Jeeps innards. The shot of the drivers side of the dash made me do a double-take. That heater control momentarily made me think this thing had pushbutton automatic transmission controls, including the “Park” lever.
My neighbors (who also had ‘the green hornet’ Imperial) had a ’70 Jeep pickup. It had a Buick 350 (the Dauntless), which is what my brothers and I called it. It was a light green color.
It had a front 540 rpm power take off (like a tractor) and a manual throttle knob. Strangely, there was no tachometer.
We used the truck to run a bale elevator. Hours of work in the summer, I think of that Jeep everytime I hear the song “the summer of ’69”.
I’ve been back in northeast Florida for a few years and I have seen 1 or 2 of these on Craigslist since coming back. They always look like they are junkyard refugees, apparently Wagoneers get all the love, being seen more often and always in better condition.
jeep week! i’m all in………..
that pto is awesome. and it completely makes sense. military jeeps had them as an option, civilian market was farmers and ranchers and foresters why not have a pto drive a winch?
gotta tug me some earth.
Now this is what a truck is supposed to look like, functional and tough. As opposed to the $60,000 posers that one sees today. I continue to be amazed at old vehicles in the Pacific northwest that just refuse to rust, even where the paint has worn completely through. Here in southern Indiana that truck would likely be a pile of iron oxide by now.
The 80s XJ Cherokees picked up a lot of styling cues from these earlier Jeeps. The profile view of the Gladiator reminds me strongly of the Comanche.
What a great looking truck indeed and thank you for all the info. The lead photo has a number of cool vehicles in it including a Mid-1960s F-100, an ODOT Dodge Ram, and a 2nd gen Chrysler Town & Country.
loved these, not quite as cool as a flat fender Jeep pickup…….or an M-715 but pretty cool, in a totally not cool sort of way
Hello folks in my truck I had to install a new radiator 3 core all aluminum and fabricate new hoses and overflow for it too.