Today, South Korea manufactures hundreds of thousands of high-quality, competitive sedans, hatchbacks and crossovers. GM’s Korean operations, for instance, produce the Chevrolet Spark, Sonic, Cruze and Malibu. Not too long ago, though, GM Korea was known as Daewoo and had a far less compelling lineup.
Daewoo’s time in the US market was fleeting. Introduced in 1999 as part of an ambitious global expansion, their American sales arm was effectively born into uncertainty due to their corporate parent’s rapidly deteriorating financial situation. Daewoo exited the market in 2002.
Daewoo 1.5i
In Australia Daewoo had launched earlier, in 1994. Their first two models were the 1.5i (Pontiac LeMans) and the Daewoo Espero, which rode atop the GM J- platform.
For 1997, the dated lineup would be swept away and replaced with a new, three-pronged range. The subcompact Lanos, compact Nubira and mid-size Leganza all had smart, European-designed exteriors (IDEA designed the Nubira, and Guigiaro the others), sharp prices and long features lists. Daewoo seemed to have turned a corner.
Rome wasn’t built in a day, and fledgling automakers don’t nail it in two generations. The Nubira was a much more modern offering than the 1.5i/LeMans, and it offered a choice of sedan, spacious wagon or pert hatchback, but it was still dynamically off the pace and lacking the quality and refinement of its rivals. Daewoo’s global troubles were also conspiring to slowly drag down sales, too.
The stench of death that loomed in the air didn’t stop my parents from purchasing a silver Nubira CDX sedan in 2003. The Nubira had been facelifted for 2000, with those oversize headlights that were in vogue as well as larger taillights with very Opel-esque plastic trim underneath. The visual revision kept the Nubira looking fresh, and perhaps that, as well as standard alloy wheels, made the Nubira stand out to my folks. A sub $AUD20k driveaway price and free leather trim was what sealed the deal, as well as the assurance that, as GM had taken over Daewoo sales, buyers would be taken care of with regards to servicing.
The Nubira completely underwhelmed me. As a child, I recall suggesting all kinds of cheap, well-equipped Korean cars for my mother, even recommending at one point that she buy a Kia Credos. By my teens, though, I realized there was more to a car than its features list. The Nubira was more luxuriously specified than the Astra it replaced, with power windows and the aforementioned leather trim, but it was inferior overall.
photo courtesy of Adrian Rubi
Inside was a mess of hard, black, plastic trim. There were creaks and moans, and a seat that would not stop rattling. The dash panel had give when you pushed it, and everything felt cheap and nasty. The leather was acceptable, but the seats themselves were not. You felt as though you sat atop them and not in them, and they offered no support in corners. The stereo was a crude, aftermarket-looking unit with fiddly buttons. After a while, it broke.
If the interior was bad, the drive was worse. Engine noise was not too bad, but the car had a bewildering combination of a poor ride and sloppy handling. The Nubira would crash over bumps and felt like it would tip over in corners due to body roll. The manual transmission was loose and unpleasant to use, too. The seating position left you peering over the hood and added to the sensation of lacking control. Overall, it was not a car you wanted to drive.
The remarkable thing was the 1997 Astra it replaced in my family was first launched in 1992, but it ran rings around the Nubira in every way. It had a more attractive and smartly designed interior, with colorful fabrics, better visibility and soft-touch plastic, although build quality was average at best. It was also leagues ahead of the Nubira to drive, with a better-damped ride, zippy handling and an excellent manual transmission. Despite the Nubira having the newer GM Family II engine (the Astra had the Family I), it didn’t seem noticeably more powerful despite its 15 hp and 13 ft-lb advantage.
Lose the rear spoiler, and that’s my parents’ Nubira
Reliability was average. Nothing major really happened with the Nubira, other than a troublesome battery. It provided a decade or so of service to my parents, and neither of them complained too much about it. But the telling thing is, Mum never spoke of the Nubira fondly. The Astra was affectionately known as her “little red car” and she still thinks highly of it today, despite it having had a few mechanical maladies and abysmal paintwork.
When the parents finally replaced the old Nubira, they went Korean again, with a 2013 Hyundai i45 (Sonata). It feels impressively solid, like most new Hyundais, with a smooth and extremely quiet ride. It has a much higher-quality interior, and looks sharp both inside and out. It’s still no road rocket, but it has plenty of get-up-and-go and competent handling. South Korea, you’ve made it.
(Photos of the beige sedan are courtesy of resident Curbsider Sean Cornelis. Thanks, Sean!)
For a newer automotive company, it’s very common to make many mistakes the older company doesn’t. I remember in a crash test a decade ago, Hyundai’s driver seat came loose and slide forward. they have the mysterious seizure of engine on newer sonata on certain engines these days as I saw on car complaints. They need more time to get experience overall.
It never fails to amaze me how people continue to be fooled by cars with a large feature set at a low price.. To me, I realize there’s got to be a tradeoff in reliability and quality to make it work.
In the late 80’s, my folks fell for it, too. They bought a car called Eagle Premier. It was (for those who aren’t old enough to remember, or have simply forgotten) mostly a Renault, sold by Chrysler, and the last dying vestiges of the Renault/AMC deal, as bought out by Chrysler.
It had a ton of luxury features for the price of a stripped-out Chevy. After about 3 years, none of them worked. Still, it didn’t stop my sister from buying the Dodge Monaco version, which dropped most of the luxury features for an even lower price.
One thing American car buyers seem to absolutely love is luxury on a budget, or getting a lot of something for little to nothing. There’s just something alluring about getting all of the luxury goodies on a car and only paying a small pittance for it.
Having attended the Detroit auto show yesterday, the observation was that expensive trucks and SUVs were mobbed by folks drooling over them (and their $60K plus price tags) while the bargain priced/loss leader cars were largely ignored. Most of the signage at each vehicle displayed the “base price” of that vehicle in one inch letters, while you had to examine the price sheet to see the true price in 1mm numbers. Example, Chevy Silverado base price “$33,500” while the sticker added up to “$66,687 as shown.” No bargains here!
Only exception was the SMART display (right next to Tesla). There, the only folks trying out the cars were little kids. Must have reminded them of their Cozy Coupe. I don’t think they were looking for a deal.
And yet I wonder if they ever bother to Read The Manual & learn how to use all that fruit. For example, cruise control: I set mine to try & maintain a steady speed, but am constantly vexed by other drivers who seem not to have discovered theirs.
They do know how to use their smart phones, though.
I had bought a used Eagle Premier in 1994 with low miles and it was one of the best cars that I have ever owned. The only problem I had was the lift F-150 that rear ended me and the insurance company thought the car not worth fixing.
Think you’re a small minority on that one! Most ownership experiences I know were negative–my cousin owned one for a time and it was positively wretched. Typical late AMC–they took what was a pretty good Renault (the 25, I think?) and totally messed it up for American consumption. Just like they managed to screw up the 9 (Alliance), 11 (Encore) and 21 (Medallion).
They did offer a nice feature set, though, and clean looks (a high school classmate had a Monaco ES, monochrome black with red highlights, actually a sharp-looking car.)
My Dad had once a Renault 25 as a company car…which was very reliable. A colleague of mine had a Renault 21 (aka Eagle Medallion). He was very satidfied as he owned it for almost 20 years. Later he replaced it with a Laguna… The Renault 9 (aka Alliance) was a very successful car in our terms. I know some pals that owned these for decades…
Eagle Premier / Dodge Monaco is one of the North-American cars that I wanted since 1991 BUT never made to get one. The once available used ones which had appeared from time to time in the local used car ads were in very poor condition and also very rare. The same situation is with the Daewoo Prince and Supersalon/Brougham. In the meantime I had to purchase something else like Chevy, Olds, Pontiac (Le Mans LE by Daewoo), Mercury… So probably the Eagle Premier won’t become a car of mine.
In regards to the Champaign Nubria at the beginning of the article how does one manage to mangle a door like that!? Cannot think of the last time I saw a Daewoo even in Portland. Did not know their ride was that bad, I figured they just lacked in quality and refinement.
You mangle the whole side , then you replace only the door. This only works when the color matches.
Try it! 😉
I recall Daewoo tried a novel sales approach here in the US wherein the salesforce consisted of college kids (literally) trying to sell the car to everyone they knew and they had central service centers. I never thought it would work but was still astounded at the (albeit small) number of Daewoo’s I saw running around. I don’t quite understand how that all worked with the existing dealer franchise laws (maybe every college kid was just an independent contractor? I don’t know).
The one thing that did impress me was during a Quattro Club track day (Driving Event) at Laguna Seca back in the late 90’s. To demonstrate the point that driver skill matters more than raw power in a car on a twisty road/circuit, the instructor that had flown in from Wisconsin took a lap in his rental Daewoo Lanos (the tiny hatchback) and proceeded to stay with a much more powerful Audi driven by a much less experienced driver.
I don’t remember how long that lasted, but my parents definitely bought their Lanos Sport from a dealership.
There was a dealer down the street from my old work for about a year until daewoo went belly up, I think it now sells mitsubishis.
I’ve never owned a Daewoo, although I’ve known people who have. Some of them have enjoyed their Daewoos, and others hated their cars.
neither have I but I test drive a Nubira out of interest quite a long time ago.Lovely car but the dealer didn’t want to know me.Funnily enough they were the same people at the time who we bought our 92 Pulsar and 96 200SX Nissan from all those years earlier when it came time to move on from my first car and the same people who we later bought a 2003 350Z from.It sucks I am a Doctors son and loyalty for past products did not count in this case.
It was produced as Doninvest Orion by TagAZ, Taganrog in 1998-2000. Well, “assembled from CKD kits” was a more appropriate term, but the venture was widely acclaimed as a full blown car plant. I’m actually surprised they tried to sell it in the US; the whole early-to-late 1990s Daewoo range of cars still had that “designed for the third world” look and feel. They were not as horrible as the first chinese cars built for export (Chery Amulet anyone ?), but still second best at the very least.
Daewoo Lacetti / Suzuki Forenza / 1st gen Buick Excelle was technically the same car (at least was built on the same platform), and it is still in production in Uzbekistan as Daewoo Gentra (Lacetti / Forenza sedan with Lacetti / Reno hatchback front clip – I find it more appealing this way actually).
It’s quite surprising how long lasting a platform which was mediocre at best even when new managed to become. That seems almost undeserved. May be a consequence of Daewoo’s licensing policies in late 1990s and early 2000s – it seems they were selling manufacturing rights to whoever payed (TagAZ, FSO, UzDaewoo).
Doninvest also made a model called the Assol. I can just imagine the advertising.
“Assol, the best-selling car – everyone’s got one!”
“Look at that Assol driving by!”
“Assol accessories – up yours!”
Daewoo was huge in Chile, their Racer was very popular, and the brand was the best selling one around 1993, surpassing Lada. Korean-made Chevrolet continue to be popular, like the Spark and Spark GT, Cruze and Captiva. But the best selling car is actually a Chinese Chevy: the Sail.
So I should not be surprised for the news on Edwards’s report… But I am. I thought that with what was Daewoo, GM had their own potential Hyundai. I guess replacing GM Korea with Chinese, U.S. and Indian production makes senses but maybe it is a lost opportunity for GM? Something in me believes investing in Korean car development is a worthy investment in he long term.
Because this post also reminds me how far have Korean cars come. These Daewoo, and also Kia and Hyundais from not long ago, were perceived as inferior in quality and design. And now they are a match for anyone, Chevrolet, Toyota, VW or Ford.
Let’s see, hoary old 60s Fiat with antiquated dynamics & questionable build quality, or a near modern body structure & dynamics, & German engineering origin but questionable build quality? I’d go Daewoo too. BTW Did they ever sell the Super Salon Brougham or possibly the Prince there?
At least there was a wagon. I know someone who bought a Lanos back then. It was similar to the Yugo. It started falling apart almost immediately.
I find it very sad that the Chevrolet Spark, Sonic, Cruze and Malibu are built by Daewoo. Is that why GM got bailed out, so they could produce “American” cars in Korea, using Korean labor, and not provide American jobs?
The ones built in Korea are mainly sold there and other world markets. The only one we get that is built in Korea is the Spark.
Spark spelled backwards is “Kraps”. Just saying.
GM bought Daewoo in 1998 so it could finally get a good small car. Although Daewoo had manifest problems in 1998, GM’s management skill has, in my opinion, significantly improved, although the weight of the cars is too high for their size. The point, after designing “also ran” smaller cars for decades, GM is finally getting a product worth buying in the Cruze and the Sonic.
Is the Cruze as good as a Civic? Well, my seat of the pants observation is it is not, but a comparably equipped Cruze is a lot less money than a Civic, and the car sells well for GM. In fact, any Cruze rental I have had has impressed me more than I thought it would.
Meanwhile, the North American operations focus on trucks, which was always their money maker anyway.
Ford and Chrysler are doing exactly the same thing, except they source from Europe.
It seems to be working, too, as all three companies are posting healthy profits.
Have you read son Edward’s latest on the crisis at GM Korea?
http://dailykanban.com/2015/01/gm-korea-the-twilight-empire/
I didn’t see Teddy’s piece until you sent the link, but I was aware that there were problems at GM Korea, since there were always problems at Daewoo, in particular at the Bupyeong plant, outside Incheon. That place was always militant, and when GM bought the ashes of the place at a fire-sale price, there was an anti-American outcry in all of Korea in general, but in Bupyeong, the union flatly said it wouldn’t work with the dreaded waygooks.
It was only by buying off the union leaders (a normal tactic in South Korea) did the hand-over happen, as well as ample twisting by fellow left-wing union supporter President Kim Dae Jung over the union. The relationship with the shop floor at Bupyeong was never good, but it seems that some good products have been designed in Korea.
The basic problem, and Teddy shows it with the $10,000 signing bonuses, is that in South Korea, workers STILL GET PAID if they strike. Yes, you are reading this right, so it absolutely benefits the unions to strike every year, since the company will only lose no matter what. This has cause a lot of the Chaebol to move out of Korea and produce in China, such as LG and Samsung, and GM Korea.
There really isn’t a reason for GM Korea to exist anymore, just like there isn’t much of a reason for heavy industry in Korea anymore, since China can buy the same Japanese technology Korea can, and produce in a place with ZERO labour unrest and on much larger economies of scale. China is a VERY law and order oriented place and none of the theatrics that occur in Korea ever happen there. It’s just easier do do business in China, and that’s speaking from personal experience.
If he sees or hears you calling him “Teddy”, he’s going to mighty unhappy. “Ted” (or “Ed” in his professional life) it is, ever since he turned about 14 or so. 🙂
Actually, China does not have zero labor unrest. A few years ago Honda (in Guangzhou?) got hit with some strikes by its workforce there and the workers successfully got a nice raise.
There are 2 major problems with doing business in China. You don’t want to manufacture anything resembling cutting edge technology there considering there is virtually no intellectual property protection. Like most developing countries, especially ones with totalitarian governments, the Chinese Communist Party suffers from rampant corruption. Bribes are the normal order to get things done.
Korean automakers stopped licensing Japanese technology almost 20 years ago and have been making their own designs. The zero labor unrest in China is untrue. Just because because news doesn’t make it beyond the great firewall of China, does not mean it is not happening. The Communist party tightly controls the media .
The “unrest” and the Chinese Honda operations occurred just as the new Emperor of China, Xi Jinping was taking the reins of power, and such events in China are always punctuated by a good old Japan hate. Believe me, if anything happens in China, it’s because the government wants it. After the coronation, it was situation normal.
John, speaking from first hand experience, it is in fact very easy to do business in China. Although bribery is the norm for domestic affairs, for international business, at least on my level, it is categorically forbidden. I have never had any problems in China, either as a tourist or doing business.
As for labour unrest, that would be very, very unwise at the moment. Repression has cracked down in China recently and Chinese have an innate ability to read the tea leaves, as it were.
Paul, thanks for posting this. I added Ed’s Daily Kanban to my favorites list, alongside CC!
Same here.
Interesting article. I didn’t know most of this, because my main interest is in cars, not the car business. Everyone feels differently, but IMO, unions still seem to be a big part of the problem with American car manufacturers. Not going to get into politics, but I live in a right to work state, and have so far worked over 37 years without ever belonging to a union, with no problems. Most of it was for a municipal government.
’bout the Cruze: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Cruze
Here’s a Daewoo dealership I snapped in Richmond, Kentucky in 2002. Not sure why I thought it was interesting enough to snap, but considering how fast they disappeared, I suppose it was inspired. Note the odd little symbol. Is that an alien? BTW I feel confident in dismissing all Korean makers if/when I considering a car purchase. I drive exclusively Toyota.
I would not dismiss Hyundai/Kia. I have a 2009 Accent and it is a solid, reliable car and a good performer, and that is a model that came on the market 10 years ago. They’ve only gotten better since then. I think if you drove one today you’d be pleasantly surprised. My understanding is that if Hyundai and Kia are not quite at Honda/Toyota levels of quality, they’re close, although I’ve always considered Hondas to be overrated and was never impressed by the numerous Camrys that my father leased over the years, which had bland, crummy interiors (although I have to admit, they never broke down).
Actually, I can see a Hyundai Sonata or Kia Optima taking away the best selling family car crown away from the Toyota Camry in as little as 5 years from now.
I can see myself in another Sonata soon also. I will not buy another Toyota product ever again. Toyota seems to have gained the same swagger and arrogance as GM once had and that almost destroyed GM. I bought a brand new 2012 XB that came out to $21945 when all was said and done. I put 24,000 miles on it before I dumped it at the end of 2013. From the get go the thing smelled like coolant, instead of it being under warranty like it should have been, Toyotat wanted me to pay for a diagnostic even though they themselves confirmed the damn thing smelled like coolant. I declined and simply mentioned it every oil change or service i had done on it. I figured since I had the bumper to bumper warranty and the extended warranty till 80,000 miles that if the engine blew up in that period, they had to replace it and if not once it hit 80,000 miles I was going to dump it anyway.
Absolutely nothing was under warranty. The final straw came when the shift knob would not stay screwed down. It seems the shift knob for the auto trans has plastic screw threads and that was defective. It was denied under warranty since they called it cosmetic issues!??! i was not talking about scratches on the thing(which it did not have) I was talking about it not staying screwed down. A replacement shift knob on my dime was $50. In the end I got nowhere with Toyota USA or Scion USA and bought the knob myself and drove the car right to Laurel Kia and traded it in on a new Forte. I lost $1000 in the trad but i was so happy to get rid of the damn thing I did not give a crap. The Forte was such a better car and I loved it for the 5 months I owned it(until a drunk driver rear ended it while it was parked at the local Harris Teeter but that is a story for another day) i had to get 2 things fixed on that Kia in the time I had it and both were gladly replaced under the 100,000 warranty.
I predict Toyota collapsing like GM did due to their holier then thou attitude.
I could see the same re: Hyundai or Kia. After years of dismissing Korean cars myself, I started to gain respect for the designs they were putting out in the middle part of the last decade, when it seems someone turned a switch and the styling went from “weird” to “pleasant if slightly anonymous”. Then, another switch was turned in the late part of the decade and legitimately good-looking cars appeared, backed by a 100K warranty and garnering good reviews. This would be how I found myself at a Kia dealership in late 2011, signing on the dotted line for a Forte Koup. And three years later, it’s been rock solid. Zero problems. Still looks, drives, and feels like it did when new. No, three years isn’t a long time, but it’s a world of difference from where any of the Korean manufacturers were back in the time that Daewoo entered and then exited our market. No, the Forte isn’t perfect–I don’t like the monochrome black interior at all. Boring to look at and mid-grade materials at best. But if that’s the biggest complaint I can make, the whole picture is quite good. And I feel confident that if I were to get into an Optima, Sonata, Elantra, Genesis, etc…the result would be similar in terms of trouble-free operation and good build quality.
The only thing Daewoo really had going for them was that the Leganza was a good-looking effort for its time. But good looks and high content levels couldn’t mask the mediocrity of the rest of the car. All of them seem to be gone now–I know where to find a Leganza parked in a mechanic’s shop (hasn’t moved in over a year) but they’ve all disappeared from the roads.
I like that it appears to have more used pickups than actual Daewoos.
Reminds me of my local Mitsubishi dealer, which has a huge “used cars” sign and a tiny Mitsubishi sign.
I took the pic. How did I not notice that? Lord.
Mad Anthony and Rich,
My memory of Daewoo dealerships is the same…a few new cars but mostly used cars sourced, I suppose, from the local auctions. A former Daewoo dealer here is now just an independent used car lot.
One manufacturer, possibly the only one, that has benefitted from GM’s involvement. It has taken a while, but today GMDAT is a powerhouse.
But back then….oy!….My wife and I had the misfortune to drive a Daewoo Leganza rental from Toronto to Syracuse and back (long story) in January 2003. Nice to look at, nicely equipped (although cheap-feeling), but absolutely hideous to drive. And a truly terrifying experience through a snowstorm on the NY State Thruway.
today GMDAT is a powerhouse.
Are you aware of the crisis GM Korea is in? Read my son’s article, and you might feel differently: http://dailykanban.com/2015/01/gm-korea-the-twilight-empire/
Oh come on, Paul… Anything that BS writes about GM is how it’s in Crisis! It reminds me of the old saying about the broken clock being right twice a day…
It wasn’t all that long ago that GM was considering cutting Opel loose. Today, it’s a different story.
All these multinational companies know about Korea and their hardline unions, it’s no secret. It’s also no secret that these multinational companies are pulling their production out of high wage areas like Canada and Korea and moving it to places like Mexico, China, Malaysia, Vietnam, etc.
Sadly, business as usual.
Your Leganza experience fits with mine, also a rental. Fortunately it was only for short distance driving ancillary to a business training function. I had recently driven a rental Camry, with which I was thoroughly impressed. The gap between the Leganza’s wannabe Camry pretensions and execution literally made me laugh. The lack of seat support reminded me of an old school bench seat. The rear seat looked like someone put two inches of foam on a plywood platform then stretched vinyl over it. The rest of the interior detail looked just as cheesy. Then the driveability issues – truly awful. Sluggish in every way, heavy and vague steering, unstable, bad ride, road noise, clunky and jerky over bumps…. If ever there was a car that said “don’t even think about it” concerning quick and decisive driving, that was it.
Former Daewoo dealership at Fourth Avenue and 62nd Street in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. Last time I checked, the sign was still there.
https://goo.gl/maps/80cSo
They were horrible!
I was a service advisor for Budget Car Sales in 2006. They sold them through their used car locations. Every one that came in, even just for service, had head gasket problems. They depreciated so quickly they weren’t worth repairing.
Someone asked what they were worth (not an owner!) I said they weren’t worth the price of an oil change.
I was surprised to see that Daewoos were only sold in the US for 3 model years. While not exactly common, there are still a surprising number of Leganzas and Nubiras cruising around the Bay Area in California. The Lanos, not so much.
I was rooting for Daewoo when they came to the U.S. The styling seemed pretty fresh and European compared to most small(er) cars we were getting at the time, particularly the Leganza which had a distinct Euro Ford look. I also liked that you could get any of them with a manual transmission – a rarity even then – including the wagon, which meant a lot to me because I was 16 and if it had 3 pedals it was automatically way better. Part of me knew that Daewoo would be dead and gone within a few years, but for a time they were, at the very least, a welcome departure from the dreary and bland offerings at the bottom of the U.S.-market totem pole.
Of course, Daewoo never really left either…
The Daewoo Lanos became the Daewoo Kalos in its 2nd generation, which was sold here as the Chevrolet Aveo & Pontiac G3.
The Daewoo Nubira became the Daewoo Lacetti, made famous by Top Gear, which was sold here as the Suzuki Forenza (sedan) and Reno (hatchback).
And the Daewoo Leganza became the Daewoo Magnus, which was sold here as the Suzuki Verona, with its strange transverse inline six.
Some of these were pretty good looking too, but much safer than the original round of Daewoos. Quality didn’t seem to improve at all. I could never understand the strategy of turning Suzuki into an outlet for rebadged Daewoos. That probably went much further towards trashing their rep in the U.S. than any of their own efforts.
The article Paul posted a link to is a real eye opener. Like most, I assumed that GM Korea (Daewoo) was in the driver’s seat when it came to GM’s current small car operations. The Sonic and Cruze seem like good cars, and as we see here with the Daewoo saga it took quite awhile for them to get to that point, so I greet the news of SAIC now handling those responsibilities with a great deal of skepticism. Does this mean the next Buick Verano will be an MG6?! What a strange world…
Back to Daewoo’s “good old days”… I mentioned last time these cars came up that whenever I see one I expect it to be the last, well… turns out I’ll probably be seeing them for years to come. I recently found a database for all vehicle registrations in New York State (link below in case anyone else is interested) and apparently there are still 600+ of them on the roads here, most in or around NYC. That’s really quite an amazing feat, and I suppose it probably means that they weren’t such bad cars after all.
https://data.ny.gov/Transportation/Vehicle-Snowmobile-and-Boat-Registrations/w4pv-hbkt
Here’s a Lanos photobombing a W116:
Very few Daewoos left on the road around here oddly enough they also churned out large tractor unit trucks two were up for sale locally a little while ago then they disappeared I presumed they had sold, but no, delivering produce to a cannery next door reveals they are both still there hidden from view I must get shots next time I’m in there in daylight theres also a tidy 2door Morris 8 E in that transport yard.
“You felt as though you sat atop them and not in them, and they offered no support in corners”
That is my preferred kind of car seat. I want a very firm seat which I sit on top of, and I prefer it to be a bench type seat.
I considered the Kia Soul when I was thinking about a new car, but I have now decided on a newer used car. Hyundai and Kia are still on the list, as they both make coupes, which are affordable on the used market. And aside from Mazda, I am not at all impressed with the Japanese brands anymore. I have never liked Honda, with the single exception of the original mid ’70s Civic, which, though it may not have been a top quality car, was a great looking design (to me) and an outright blast to drive with the manual transmission. A lot of the reason is Honda’s bland styling, and the reputation they developed with the street racer crowd, even though Honda had little to do with that. Also, Honda has seemed snobbish and arrogant since the ’80s. They have been called the poor persons BMW. They have been called a yuppie car. I would rather walk than drive a BMW, simply because of the reputation that goes with them. I am blue collar, and very proud of it.
There is also Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti to consider. These are mostly badge engineered cars, and are still known as Honda, Toyota, and Nissan to the rest of the world. They were seemingly created to get Honda, Toyota, and Nissan into the “upscale” market in the U.S. I guess it worked, I see plenty of them on the road. I’ve also noticed they depreciate faster than “lesser” brands, just like Mercedes and BMW.
Honda -snobbish and arrogant? Surely ye jest.
Lexus and Infiniti are now Lexus and Infiniti pretty much everywhere; there are a few Infiniti models that are still badged as Nissan in Japan, but not abroad, and Toyota has had Lexus dealers in Japan since 2005.
When I was last in Japan in 2011, I was surprised to see how many Lexus, Infiniti cars I saw on the roads, since in 2004 they didn’t exist.
No experience with Daewoos specifically, but no matter how much the Korean manufacturers improve their products they still carry a little “Wal Mart” stigma in my mind. I feel like the dealership culture hasn’t changed much, and unlike Toyota/Honda they always run obnoxious commercials aimed at people with bad credit, want the cheapest possible lease, or advertise $3000 “push, pull, tow!” minimum trade-in offers constantly, etc, etc.
Back when I would test drive new cars for fun with no intention of buying them (I miss that) I sought out a base $11,500 Rio at the Kia dealership in 2010 just because I wanted to experience the last brand new car I’d ever have the chance to drive equipped with manual steering! I think it’s also the last new car sold from the factory with bare steel wheels and no hubcaps. It drove OK and I’ll admit it was charming in a bare bones way – the engine vibrated slightly through the steering wheel – but reeked of a disposable ’90s car. It felt a like a Toyota Tercel without the durability. No components gave the impression they would last long.
I notice them in traffic (easy to spot because of those wheels) and despite being pretty new they are often dented, dirty, and driven by an apathetic driver smoking a cigarette. Is the 2006-2011 Rio the last truly disposable Korean car? Used car listings show they are worth close to nothing by 100K. I rented the current model once and it is vastly improved. Hopefully they age and depreciate less horribly.
“Back when I would test drive new cars for fun with no intention of buying them (I miss that) I sought out a base $11,500 Rio at the Kia dealership in 2010 just because I wanted to experience the last brand new car I’d ever have the chance to drive without power steering!”
Now I’m depressed. I did not know they quit making cars without power steering.
Manual steering has returned to the US – the new Alfa Romeo 4C has an unassisted rack.
Wow. No power steering and bare steel wheels? A car after my own heart. Driving that thing must be a real bear, though, if it has the same tiny steering wheel that they put in all cars nowadays. I have fond memories of the enormous steering wheel in my ’79 Dasher–you could really get some leverage using that thing.
I wouldn’t by any means consider these disposable cars, although it does seem like the ownership of these and the ’06-’11 Accent (which is essentially the same car) consists almost entirely of people younger than 23 and older than 75 along with random middle-aged bargain hunters like me, who like that a car this basic still exists. If you get one that’s been well taken care of, they are reliable and will go for a couple hundred thousand miles, although most of them seem to be done in early by owners who never knew they needed to change the timing belt (or didn’t have the $500 to do it) and blew the thing up at 80K. And then there are the teenage modders, who throw 20-inch wheels and fart-can mufflers on these poor things and destroy them slowly that way.
The resale value on these things IS awful, so if you buy one, you buy it for life, because nobody will ever give you anything for it. I think that will change as Hyundai/Kia’s reputation improves and people start looking for alternatives to blowing $14,000 on a five-year-old Fit.
And I agree about the dealership culture–some are very good and professional and treat their customers like adults, but a lot still have that bargain-basement mentality and will nickel-and-dime you to the end of time. I wonder how different that really is from other dealers, though–I’ve heard horror stories from friends about Honda dealers pushing all kinds of phony, expensive maintenance stuff ($300 throttle-body cleaning, $400 “fuel injector service,” etc.), and I always thought Honda was better than that.
All in all, these are good, honest no-nonsense cars, something that’s in short supply these days.
I don’t think its as bad as you say. I just paid 7k for a 6 year old civic(85k miles), and the comparable Hyundai/Kia cars were’nt much lower. I went with the Honda mainly because it had a stick shift and the below blue book price. Sticks are getting hard to find now.
Wow. Sounds like you got a great deal on the Honda. When I bought my Accent (also stick shift) two years ago, a 2009 Fit with similar mileage was almost twice the price (around $13,500 compared with the $7,500 I paid). Fits were holding their value incredibly well. You can definitely bargain hard on the stick shift models, since 90% of the public doesn’t want them.
Nubira-sounds like a “craft beer” pitched to yuppies.New-Beer-A. Get it?
I thought New Biro, after the disposable ball point pen!
I think probably about 75 percent of how well a car rides and handles depends on how well matched the spring and damping rates are. There seems to be a common misconception that just softening things up makes for a better ride and stiffening the suspension makes for better handling, but if the shocks and springs aren’t well matched to one another, they mainly give you weird ride frequencies on anything but pristine, level pavement.
Dreadful car. Many were sold in Israel on account of their cheap price. They start, drive and stop but that’s it.
Paul, thanks for the article about Daewoo.
Funny thing I have noticed lately. When the Cruze first came out the spiel was that it had been designed by Daewoo and “refined” by Opel, and the Verano was a Cruze with spats and collar studs. Now, I hear the Verano described as Opel based, levering the fact that the recently intruced Buick Cascada *is* an Opel. Wondered what happened to the Daewoo content of the platform. Know I know, Daewoo is out of the spotlight, pushed off the stage and ignored, and the Verano’s parentage is being spin doctored.
And since the Cruze, Verano and Astra are due for a new platform in 16, I bet the Cascada is going to be a one year and done proposition, like the Saturn Astra. Over the years it seems GM has created more orphans than Attila the Hun.
From what I remember the Cruze and Astra are on the same platform, the largest difference being the Astra has IRS.
I’m actually driving a Cruze diesel sedan at the moment and it is not a bad car, mind you I have yet to take it on a twisty road or highway trip.
Earlier Daewoos always seemed junky to me, eg the Aveo I drove was pretty poor, although I know a guy who has got quite a high mileage from his early Lanos without much trouble from what I know.
From what I remember the Cruze and Astra are on the same platform, the largest difference being the Astra has IRS.
Apparently, everything on the Delta II platform (Cruze, Astra, Verano, Cascada) all use a beam axle with Watt’s link. I looked at the Vauxhall site, but did not find any sort of technical information. The Opel South African site calls it a “compound crank” and provides this illustration.
Lower end Cruze models do not have the semi-independent Watt’s Link setup (LS, ECO, certain LT’s).
Correct, but only in North America. I have no idea how they’re outfitted in other parts of the world.
Nobody on this board has owned more Daewoos than myself, being in Korea.
First one was the much maligned Opel Kadet-based based 1991 LeMans, AKA Pontiac. I bought it as a 6 year old for the equivalent of $700 US in 1997. Was it a POS? Kind of, but this was mitigated by the purchase price. It was the top-line GTE model, with alloy wheels and full power.
It had the 1.6 TBI Opel Family 2 that US J-car owners will recognize. Say what you will, but that car handled better than subsequent Daewoos, until I got my Cruze. I guess they hadn’t manage to expunge all the German DNA yet.
The AC cacked out, and I replaced it with a very nice but high km 1995 Prince, which was a close sibling of the Opel Senator and Holden Commodore. The price wasn’t princely, I only paid 2 million for it, and it was in very nice shape. Underpowered it was with it’s 1.8 liter SOHC Family 2 mill, but rode beautifully on the highway. The body was solid as a rock, the doors emnating a very Germanic click when closing the doors.
I left Korea and returned to Canada, and subsequently ended up in Saudi Arabia for a time. There I picked up the cheapest newest car i could find, a 2 year old ’99 Leganza. It made miss the Prince even more. It did have the annoying trait as described above, crashy and harsh over bumps and still mushy in the turns. And it was thirsty for the power it put out, but gas was almost free there anyway.
Returning to Korea, I grabbed a ’98 Lanos. Yes it was a little crude, but it was very tough, I dished out a lot of abuse to that little car, and it went pretty good too. It let me me down once when I ignored the exhortations of the Daewoo mechanic to change the timing belt on it’s DOHC engine before the recommended interval. Guess what happened?
It was too new to junk, but, being in Korea, a whole new head, water pump, hoses, belts, plugs& wires, etc only ran me about $700 US.
That was my last stick shift car, as I getting older and softer.
I replaced that with a 2004 Lacetti, which was merely adequate, and slow, with it’s 1.5 liter tax-beater Family 2 bleeting along as it struggled through its torque converter. 2 highly annoying problems plagued me on this car. One, it was impossible to keep a good seal on the cam cover, and oil perpetually dripped onto the exhaust manifold, making smell like an old beater. Problem 2, after a rear brake pad replacement, the brakes would occasionally begin shrieking like banshees. A yank on the handbrake would stop it for a while. Of course it would never do it when I took it into the shop. Then one day, it did it with the mechanic in the car. So I wasn’t a crazy waygook after all. New pads solved the problem for a year. It returned, changed the pads again. By this time I was fed up and last April, traded it for a ’12 Cruze. The only trouble the Cruze has given me was from aftermarket items on the car, not GM’s fault. A dash cam-motion sensor system would run down the battery if not driven for a few days. Solved by wiring it to a switched fuse. The aftermarket slide-over-the-top (instead of into the roof) moonroof has wind noise over 140 kmh. I can see the glass is visibly cockeyed, needs to be adjusted. For now, I have to tape up the shutline before highway trips.
Up until about 2 years ago, I knew somebody with a white, 2-door Daewoo Lanos. It looked immaculate and I saw him driving it numerous times, as well as parked at work. I expect he is still driving it today. Apparently, I never asked him about his experience with the car.
lets not forget that in late 80s we used to have the Pontiac lemans which actually was Daewoo racer/cielo.
Car Australia January 88 mentioned something on the Pontiac and that’s the same car Australia would have been forced to have as it’s Gemini replacement had badge engineering with Nissan and Toyota was not forced upon them.I have been as a passenger in one with a family over in New Zealand in 1990 and not a bad product but underpowered by modern day standards.1.5 OR 1.6L 55KW Motor when the Astra/Pulsar twins had a 1.8 with 79KW under the bonnet or very close to old school Italian 1800cc power outputs taking unleaded petrol into account for a minute.The Corolla/Nova from their 1.6’s in the early days were 67KW and later 76KW with Fuel Injection from memory and you could from 1992 to 1996 till GMH switched over to Opel for the next group of Astra get an optional 1.8L 85 KW motor.
The turn signals were mounted on the left of the column in the European style, a sign of the company’s Opel connections.
I’ve had American, Asian, German, everything. But recently got a ’01 Daewoo nubira as just a get me by car as i got one of my others transmission put back together, had no intention on keeping it. I found it by accident with only 50k miles and the paint was falling off. It has been a old mans car that kept all it’s records and from the looks it had sat for a while. But it had not one spec of rust and the interior was in great condition. As I found more about them I wanted to keep because there was little Asian about this car except maybe the body. The rest is American or European. And it has a hp of 1.08 per c.i.! That’s more than bmw! Very impressive for a econobox! And I don’t know where this trash talker is getting his info from I’ve drove it all and I’m very impressed. It rides good, it has a very comfortable interior, now I did have to replace sound system due to age and just wanted bt and pioneer, it handles great and shares the same suspension style set up as a bmw 530i only front drive instead. It’s not any more cheap made than any Chevy or Toyota or Subaru? Infact I believe it’s a little better. It’s a mechanics absolute dream boat!!!!! Who ever designed this car made it so all the parts could be accessible easily, any replaceable part that could wear and have to be replaced has a super easy way to access and replace more than anything I have ever worked on in my life!!!! Fuel pump needed replaced, I pulled up rear seat, pulled up a cover, in 15 minutes it was changed!!! Thermostat, 5 minutes changed!! Radiator flush, 5 min. Easy to access oil filter, oil change, 10 minutes or less. Cabin air filter, under hood access panel, 2 nuts changed it 7 minutes! Fuel filter, under hood, 5 minutes changed!!! Spark plugs and wires 20 minutes changed! The rear wheel bearings are not a remove and replace hub! It has repackable wheel bearings like a ’79 Dodge dart! Everything under hood is so easy to get to. So easy for the at home do it guy and parts are still so available and so so cheap! But once I got this little car back up to par from age haven’t done a thing, it’s so dependable, excellent mileage, and great long distance car. Has huge trunk. But did add on a Chevy cobalt low profile spoiler for updated look, fresh paint, and got rid of the butt ugly rims and went to a aftermarket 14″ that looks much more fresh. Going to keep it a while.