When Perry wrote up a 964 in 2014, I hadn’t seen one in ages. Now they’re all over the place, more common than the 993 at the moment. I’ve always considered this shape the least successful of the air-cooled 911s, but it has its devotees and despite my misgivings I can see why.
For me that bumper is the clincher, an oversized response to an integrated brief.
For the many who enjoy one, it’s about the 959. The 964 was 85% changed from the previous gen, and a lot of that came in the form of four-wheel drive and more sophisticated electronics developed within the programme that became the 959.
The other thing that gets this cohort is that this gen is the last to feature the headlights arranged as per the original, where the 993 was used to anticipate the 996 with more flush units.
If I didn’t like the coupe so much, I’d take a Targa. The original generation came with an optional removable soft rear window, but that quickly disappeared. That beautiful sheet of bent glass is as much as icon as the hoop. The Targa makes the cabrio look naked.
This one’s sitting on Fuchs, which I’m not sure were available on this model.
And yet another one.
That’s a curious hue of red used on the taillights; a slightly blue bias that moves the red towards cranberry. They didn’t repeat that on the 993.
This generation was actually the last of this configuration until its return on the current model. The intervening series retained the coupe silhouette with a sliding glass roof arrangement and no hoop.
For me the blue one is the nicest of the three, but with the lighter graphite hoop please.
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Further Reading
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I find the 964/965 to be among my favorite of the generations, the smoothed body and bumpers work well for me. When I got my 996 I was really torn between it and a 964 C2 Coupe, at the time pricing was almost identical. From a resale perspective I made the wrong decision, but from a maintenance and reliability standpoint it turned out correctly, and an almost even resale price after seven years is still great, but not as good as the at least 2:1 increase of the 964 in the same period for a coupe body.
That red one almost has me thinking it’s an updated older model, the Fuchs were not available on the 964, early models with those “elephant ear” mirrors usually came with the Design90 wheels as seen on the blue one and the offset on them (the Fuchs) looks too great to work with the stock 964 bits behind them as well as perhaps being of a smaller diameter. I’ve never seen the roll hoop in any color than black on this generation either but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t offered as such elsewhere. The red front bumper I don’t believe is stock either.
The taillights on all 964/965 these have a tendency to turn “pink” over time too for some reason.
In short I’m convinced the blue and white ones are 964s but not 100% sure on the red one… However, seeing three in a short span of time is a rarity, and a welcome sight no matter what. Thanks for posting!
I had the same immediate thoughts about the red one with the Fuchs. My understanding is that the 964 had drastically different offset, making it essentially impossible to mount the old Fuchs wheels.
In any case, it looks dorky, as the wheels look to small for the modernized body. It just doesn’t work.
Yes, it apparently has to do with the ABS system and the traction control system (as well as the AWD on the C4), the massive negative offset of some of the Fuchs wheels don’t let it work correctly. In any case the Design90 wheels as seen on the blue car are 16″, hence those Fuchs on the red car are likely 15″ which I do not believe would clear the stock 964 brakes anyway. Of course it’s *possible* that someone went to the trouble of a lot of brake and suspension modifications to fit Fuchs to their 964 but more likely that someone made their SC or earlier into a 964 by changing exterior bits, not all that uncommon.
Wow Jim, a most discerning eye. Looking at it again, the rubber seal between the front bumper and upper seems bulgy and the same on the blue one is flat. It makes sense that someone did this back then; these days those headlights and tech make 964s the ideal donor for a backdated body.
That rubber seal, at least on older SCs and Carreras, was always a bit of a wear item, depending on the ambient temps and exposure (garaged vs outdoor) they would tend to deform a bit over time. But yes, you more often see 964’s going the other way although with 964 values rising, I think it’s starting to even out a little bit, i.e. it costs more to start with one of them now than it used to. Singer though for example I believe likes to start with a 964, likely as it’s the newest with the most recent electronics to create one of their “rebuilds”. At the prices they charge (and get) they can afford it though…
About 20 years ago I had a 1981 911SC Targa for a few years. It was a fun car to have but disappointing in ways that made me not unhappy to sell it (other than missing out on the huge value increases that started sometime after I sold it). The car was unexpectedly crude in many ways (cheap looking and feeling interior materials, pretty hopeless aircon, crude heating and other things). Worst was the folding targa roof which kept “unclipping” even after I had it (expensively) rebuilt. And every little thing that needed doing (which was a lot) was expensive.
I understand that the 964 series is a big improvement in refinement over the SC that I had – although the targa roof design seems to be the same. However, I’ve always found the rear end treatment on the 964 to be the most unattractive of any 911, which has always put me off them whenever I’ve wondered about getting back into a Porsche. Way out of my price range now too but I’ve no regrets about that. 🙂
That’s the one 964 body style I’ve never driven. I could definitely assuage my desire for a European car with a 911SC or Carrera 3.2 Targa in spite of their stigmas for high center of gravity and lesser rigidity. If I need to get where I’m going in a hurry, I can always drive my Honda instead.
I’d bet the red “964” is an earlier model 911. Those bumpers look like Strosek units. They sure as heck aren’t stock 964 bumpers. Strosek was a tuner that sold fiberglass body kits and bits for 911s, 928s and 944s. Don’t know if they’re still around.
Sharp eyes! Now that I look at them again, that rear bumper is a single piece unit (vs. 3 pc.) that bulges rearward around the number plate (vs. straight across) and is shallower in profile than the ‘proper’ Porsche piece. And the front one looks deeper in profile, making the poor car look unbalanced front to rear!