J.C. shot and posted a Mercedes 300SE cabriolet, not to be confused with the very similar-looking 220/250/280SE (W111) cabriolet. The 300SE (W122) shared the same body as the more pedestrian versions, but shared the air suspension, three liter six, standard automatic and power steering and vastly upgraded interior with the W112 sedans (300SEL). And of course the extra chrome, including the side trim and wheel arches.
In price, it towered over the lesser versions too, at $12,573, for a 1964 model. That’s a bit north of $106k adjusted for 2020 dollars. The only more expensive Benz was the “Grosse” 600.
Guess what it’s worth today?
According to Hagerty’s online valuation tool, it’s: $101,000. Or almost exactly what it cost new, in adjusted dollars. That doesn’t exactly make it a stellar investment over the long haul, but then it’s undoubtedly given a lot of “free” pleasure to its owner(s). Well, not counting maintenance and repairs.
Related reading:
CC Mercedes 300SEL – Trying To Make Sense of the Magic “300” Number Don Andreina
The color combo reminds me of Bishop Don Magic Juan.
“Green is for the money, Gold is for the Honey”
The bottom fell out of the antique furniture market because younger people weren’t interested. Maybe that will change as they age, maybe not. Will the same thing happen to old cars?
I’ve wondered this myself. I sure think it will with some cars but classics like this example with intrinsically good looks that oozes status? Unlikely.
Now your run-of-the-mill domestic 1940s sedan? Likely. My two cents from a 35-year-old.
The bottom did indeed fall out, but the high end actually has gotten even higher. And that is the likely outcome for old cars.
Consider a piece of antique furniture. A really rare piece of high end furniture that is over 100 years old is stlll considered valuable and collectable, especially to those with the money needed to collect. An Eighteenth century colonial piece is still worth a lot, and there are enough wealthy collectors to keep those prices high and stable. But not so much for a late Nineteenth century piece from the midwest that your grandmother had been handed down from her family. Dealers even have a term for a lot of antique furniture that is now practically worthless due to not being collected – OBF, or old brown furniture. Even high quality, high priced as new stuff made of the finest hardwoods by expert craftsmen is generally just not worth anything, as there is no market for it. So the really high end still sells, but anything else does not.
That’s what will happen with cars. High end ones, exotics from known makers, like Ferraris, Porsches, Rolls Royces, Deusenbergs, and similar will still have a high value. But your tri-five Chevy, your muscle car, or unquestionably your 1950s 4 door sedan, will be of little resale value, and more likely to be a burden to your heirs, because there just won’t be a market for it. If they don’t want it, it will be just more garbage to be disposed of after you are gone. And those who appreciate it will be able to pick it up for a song, if they want it.
My wife does some work for an estate auction and is friends with the owners. They talk alot about OBF. According to him there was a period from around 1980 to 2003 or so where as long as it was high quality furniture and more then 60-70 years old it was bringing a decent return ( his example was being to sell turn of the century dresser for 600-800 bucks easily). Now it’s mostly worthless and it has to be very specific items like you say. At this auction alot of Mid century modern things have started bringing a decent price for instance.
Once again hoarders win!
Seriously, I agree with you, the high end, the best of the best will continue to be collectable and command collectable prices. It may be associated with a name like Porsche, or Benz, but not likely AMC, Fiat or Yugo. And the 4 door LTD that gramps drove and stored in the barn out back? No one is beating a path to your door for that one. Just like you didn’t care about the 4 door, 6 cyl, auto Newport your aunt drove.
Yes, they will be available on the cheap if you have a desire to ‘collect’ them but don’t fool yourself, selections like that rarely beat inflation or a good index fund.
I know someone who collects pre-WWII cars he has told me the market fell out for those around 10-12 years ago. I think you see the same with cars as prices of 80’s and 90’s vehicles are going up older vehicles are staying the same or going down. But it tends to be very variable by model. For instance trucks are hot for a while now.
Hagerty has an index that shows the market falling for muscle cars and cars from the 1950’s, while German cars and British collectibles are staying flat. They show waht they call affordable collectibles to be the only market really increasing. These are pretty much cars that high dollar collectors have passed over in the past but are now growing in popularity like old Z cars.
Architectural Digest magazines 1980s-early 2000s show high-end apts. in NYC’s Upper East Side that look almost Victorian in opulence! Also, shabby chic was a thing. Now, everything is going minimalist/grayscale (there are semiological reasons for this, which I won’t get into).
However, eBay & Craigslist prices for this old, ornate furniture that is supposed to be “out” have not dropped. Same with ’50s cars. Perhaps sellers are too optimistic, and the items/cars are not selling at their listed prices.
Typical look:
I’ll be the curmudgeon to that photo; you couldn’t pay me to live in that museum of stuff, and I’m not young. The amount of detail cleaning required? That’s why they had staff, because it’s endless. My iPad or cell phone in a room like that would instantly label you a fool. And I wear pea coats, fedoras, suede shoes, and scarfs! Give me Scandinavian Minimalist over this any time.
I have a friend, born and raised in Sweden, a chef, owned restaurants, apartments, and sex clubs in Sweden, drove around Sweden and Europe in the early 70s in 1969 red Mustang Mach I, thrown in prison when he didn’t pay his taxes which were 125% of his income, thrown out of prison because he cornered the black market in prison and was parking his Mustang inside the walls, was to be thrown in prison again but took off, Interpol on the hunt, hidden in Thailand, arrived in Tijuana in 1984, walked across the border to Los Angeles, met people in the German consulate, got into the Mercedes gray market selling high end cars, moved to San Francisco in 1985 dealing in cars, moved into the antique business, I moved across the street from him in 1990 and wondered who that gorgeous Filipina was and this other fellow who dressed like Rod Stewart, ran into them in a Chinese night club, and have been friends ever since 1990.
He dealt in antiques from both Europe and the Philippines which is how I made my first trip to the Philippines at his invitation to antique hunt. By 1998 those kinds of antiques died out in the Bay Area so he was 100% Europe. His stuff ended up at high end dealers in San Francisco and Los Angeles. His living room has furniture like that in the picture below. The dining room has a late 1600s Russian crystal chandelier hanging. He has, by his count, $100,000 of antiques in storage since 2010. The dealers have gone out of business and auctions at Butterfields have changed. People with money, and there is a lot of it on the Peninsula, have changed and now everything European is out since 2010. He is doing Ok at 75 since his Filipina girlfriend (the same woman) makes a ton of money in the thread business. Oh, and most ironic, he did become a US citizen and yet collects Social Security from Sweden. Sit down with this fellow for a few drinks and I guarantee you your perceptions on life will change.
Not difficult to find out: ~$100K.
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/mercedes-benz/300se/2465990.html
I would have put all my money on these babies being based on the W108/W109s. I guess I learned something on this site again today.
The W108/109 didn’t come out until 1965. These were very much based on the fintail W111/112, and first came out in 1960, in 220SE coupe and cabrio versions.
FWIW, the W108/109 was a direct evolution of the W111/112, and not exactly a clean sheet platform. So there’s a lot of family similarities in all of these two series of Mercedes.
Yeah, I read up on it. The W111/112 are very similar if not identical in the front, but the convertible and coupe have the W108/109 rear end. I always assumed they got it from the W108/109. But it’s apparently the other way around – and the W108/109 is one of my favorite cars even.
So thanks for today’s lesson, Doc.
It is good (I guess) to see that it wasn’t just Detroit that tried to pair dark green with the yellow/beige/gold/brown palette. Is period-specific questionable taste an international thing? Or was it the American buyer who decided on the colors? Not everything about the 60’s was wonderful. 🙂
Fewer “kids” under 35 are getting driver’s licenses than any other generation. That in itself doesn’t help the possibility of ascending value for collectables.
Then you’ve got to count on nostalgia. My guess is nostalgia is only worth a generation. Today’s kids will remember (?) their parent’s leased Audi Q5 or Toyota Highlander. Not good seed from which a fertile market would grow.
Further, Lyft and Uber have further diluted the romantic experience of riding in cars. They’re tools to get you somewhere. Few people are making memories in the back of a Kia Soul on their way to therapy or the gym.
Last, everyone under, say 70, today is likely, quite tech savvy and spoiled by today’s standard features. I’ve been hunting for a Renault 5/Le Car or Volvo Duette for 10 years because: Nostalgia. But what’s kept me from pulling the trigger? I love my clicker. My cruise control. Dual zone climate control. Call me wimp but I’m way more of a car enthusiast than any one of my friends. That said, three who do like older cars and have pulled the trigger (these are guys under 50) have bought 80s R107 Mercedes-Benz SLs as third cars. And they remark.. it’s wierd that a Kia Rio has more “luxury” features than this thing, but they like them. But also because none spent more than $10k on them. They’re iconic/ironic snazzy giggle toys. Light prestige, light investment, light commitment. Light opportunity for their investment increasing in value.
Oh, and since it came up, in regards to antiques, all of the R107 owners I know are fairly savvy with furnishings/decor/design and none are wildly enthused by anything older than late 1960s.The term typically used in this milieu, for that older stuff is, un-enthused, “brown furniture.” Ouch.
Spot on. As somebody who is only very recently removed from the youngest generation, I can perceive a definite difference in how we view automobiles…er cars.
As a consummate gearhead, I spend a lot of time scouring the region for related parts and services and I rarely come across someone who doesn’t remember the 20th century.
Many have relayed to me the apparent indifference their progeny display toward their prized sleds and even driving in general.
Most recently, someone with a cherry (in color and condition) 68 corvette convertible 4spd lamented his daughter’s lack of interest in the vehicle. (Then he offered it to me! Half-jokingly, of course…)
I have younger cousins without drivers’ license past the age of 16 that are content playing fortnight in the basement, whereas I was chomping at the bit since fourteen.
Unsurprisingly, when this generation matures, they will have no interest in a tri-five chevy or even a nice Plymouth scamp, regardless of their disposable income..
Falling demand will lead to falling prices, as we all know and this will be most apparent in the early
automobiles of the 20s-50s, which are a bit less user-friendly and less highway-manageable* than those of the 60’s and newer. (*totally unmanageable to most normal people)
There is one caveat—Old trucks are in now, because they are despite their age, still useful as any new truck. Especially contrasted against the astronomical prices of new trucks. But you won’t see anybody towing a load down the highway with a split-window Chevy, like you might still see with something from the 70s.
The age of the automobile has reached its zenith, so when all the old guys that formerly lusted after these machines fade away, so will the prices.
Back to this car, a far better ROI and maybe more enjoyable overall experience would’ve been a used 300SL or Roadster purchased in 1964!
“More pedestrian version”?! One on BaT at nearly at quarter of million American!
First off, the top of the line, featured Mercedes is beautiful, it just exudes the comfortable, quality, old money vibe. They were also well built, these are the cars that epitomize the concept of MBZ in my mind.
It was only a few years back we saw mass production based, muscle cars hit astronomical and really absurd price levels. What fueled this price increase? The cars themselves don’t have any intrinsic mechanical sophistication. It’s the desirability of these cars to potential buyers with money to spend. I grew up during the muscle car era. I started high school in 1969 and only a few rich kids had new muscle cars. By the time I graduated, was attending junior college those car were everywhere. Their popularity waned by the end of the 1970s. Nostalgia is a very powerful market force, but it will run it’s course eventually.
Why does this Benz always reminds me of the movie “Hangover”?
Yes they were designed and built very well, but a bit boring and whenever you show up in one of these people would expect the driver to be an ageing golf pro or so. Not the right car for a gearhead!
That’s a lot of chrome! Maybe even enough for Jaws. They go together like peanut butter and jelly especially the convertable top so he can fit. As far as the outrageous car prices everything is cyclical. Once electric vehicle sales have more than half the market share I believe petroleum powered car values will drop dramatically. All but the most expensive cars or reasonably attainable common cars will be recycled.
This car has always been my Holy Grail.
I turned 16 in 1984. I answered an ad to look at a 7up green 300SE convertible like the one above in Arcadia, CA. It was $3,000 It was in very good condition.
I had only $2,000 to spend. My father asked me how I intended to pay him back for the additional required $1,000 to purchase the car. As a bratty 16 year old I heard it as a snippy retort to my not having enough money, not him asking me for details as to how a loan would be repaid, as I was gainfully employed back then.
My misinterpretation garnered me a $2,000 1978 Honda CVCC. It was hideous.
11 years later in 1995 I was looking at a Blue 250SE convertible in Long Island City NY, Pristine, and $12,000. I was test-driving it with $12,000 cash in my pockets on the L.I.E. and it stalled…out of gas. I stupidly took it as “a sign” not to buy it.
So you know by reading this what an idiot I am.
In my opinion, this is far better then the 3.5 n is still underpriced. The comfort n ease of driving is a very different level from the normally sprung 3.5. Easier to work on n surely once u understand the suspension set up easy to maintain and repair. Speaking from experience of owning both