This car has some serious history…with me, on the web, and just for what it is. It sort of started my whole career (for what that’s worth). It was the second car I ever shot, inspired by Murilee Martin’s DOTS series. The first was this Saab 96, and the second, this pristine Plymouth Sapporo. I sent the pictures of them both to MM, and they ran on Jalopnik. A year or so later, I started doing CC at TTAC. And then I finally did a proper CC write-up of the Sapporo here.
But I never knew its history, or if it was still around almost five years later. About an hour ago, I ran into it again for the first time since then, and its owner too. He bought it about seven years ago from the classic old lady type: only drove it to church on Sundays; literally. It had 24k miles then. That explains the pristine interior. But it’s become a daily driver since then, probably the only Sapporo in the world in that capacity, or it least in this kind of shape. A true Curbside Classic; no wonder it inspired me to look for more, and more, and more….
Mitsubishi used to sell a lot of cars in the USA. Do they sell anything now under “other” brand names ? Do they even make any nice coupes any more ?
What I said on that Jalopnik post is still the case: “A friend of mine had one of these (in the late 80s) and let me borrow it several times. It was a super nice little car. It was comfortable and had decent power. And I’ll never forget that gentle ding-dong, ding-dong sound when you left your lights on (or was that left your key in the ignition when you opened the door?).”
I think back then Mitsubishi was probably #3 among Japanese carmakers. If you ask people then which Japanese makers is likely to succeed in the U.S., Mitsubishi will be among them. They’ve been floundering for so long now. They ought to go on a limb and get themselves a good, aspirational leader, not the same Japanese bureaucrats that just want to cruise along doing next to nothing and just watch the company sink deeper and deeper. Ford did it with Alan Mulaly, and Nissan did it with Carlos Gosn.
That’s an interesting observation. The Japanese, clever as they are, don’t seem able to cultivate that kind of hard-charging leadership.
Nissan, as Datsun, succeeded in the States in spite of itself…it was that outcast of the Japanese-industrialist caste, Yutaka Katayama (Mr. K) who was exiled here with the impossible task of making the car-line a success. By taking the best of his culture and ours, he succeeded wildly…and was sacked for his trouble. And Nissan, between then and the Renault era, foundered deeper and deeper…it took the FRENCH, of all people, to steer them in the right direction.
Toyota as well. Toyota today sells value and quality – and little else. This “Green” fad is going to go by the wayside; leaving Toyota with an investment in a dead-end technology which may or may not be paid for…but there’s little that’s inspiring in their showroom.
Mitsubishi needed Chrysler, then; and they need a partner to replace Chrysler, now. Clearly the Japanese manufacturing class cannot produce home-grown leaders.
The “Green Fad” going by the wayside? What planet are you on, man? Toyota has never sold so many hybrids. They are number one sellers in Japan now. Dead end technology? What smokest thou? They make money on ever car they sell now and I don’t see any lessening of hybrid models coming to market these days. With the 2016 CAFE standards I’d wager big we’ll see a lot more, too.
Where’s the latest Oldsmobile Grande Brougham?
Fads come and go. The Studebaker Lark was hot…for two years. Rambler was third in the production race in 1961.
The cost of a hybrid negates the cost of fuel savings, even at $5 a gallon. The technology is VERY complex; and the savings in fuel from the driveline alone aren’t that great. As one writer points out, low-rolling-resistance tires, a slippery shape, and a small engine stressed out closer to its max, delivers almost the same economy.
With a lower price.
Hybrids are a dead-end because there is NO WAY to make that incredibly complex drivetrain competitive against a straightforward engine/transmission setup. It’s obvious: More hardware and wiring and high-tech batteries, equal higher cost. And higher upkeep, and more problems as road salt does its work.
It’s possible the CAFE rules will kill other sorts of cars. If they do, they’ll also kill the personal automobile as a universal; cars will again become the prerogative of the privileged class. And the cost of those cars that ARE built, will increase, as lower production volume equals higher per-unit cost.
MUCH more likely is that those fantasy CAFE regulations will be repealed. But we get into the realm of politics…
Not this argument again. There’s also cost savings, like no “transmission” per se in a Toyota hybrid. Toyota’s hybrid “premium” ($2000 a few years back) has been falling for years, and is equal or less than the premium of a diesel engine over a gasoline engine. That’s a well established fact going back quite a few years. And as they make more, and wring out further costs, the premium drops.
The argument of complexity is irrelevant. Check out a US-compliant diesel to see how complex that is. Anyway, the real point is reliability: check the Prius at CR. It’s always at or near the top.
The cost of the hybrid system is not what sells the cars in markets like America. Cool sells them in America, and very well, too. However, in a place like Soviet Canuckistan, the extra cost of a Camry Hybrid vs a regualr Camry is about $3000. For someone like who drives in the neighbourhood of 30,000 km a year in an almost exclusively urban environment, the payback is not as long as may think. You see, a litre of fuel here is now CP (Canuckastani Pesos) 1.35 which is over 5 real dollars a gallon. Were I to purchase said car, I would reap payback in four years or less.
As for the CAFE rules, you hare having a fantasy if you think they are going to be repealed. The same end of the earth scenarios were played out in 1973 when the first CAFE laws came in. The fact is the US car industry still doesn’t want to invest a nickel it doesn’t have to so the can keep their bottom line as fat as possible.
Cars are no more expensive that they were when my daddy paid $3300 for a stripper Pontiac in 1970. That translates to $20,000 in today’s dollars, enough for a fully equipped Civic or Corolla. Since these cars have much higher levels of equipment and last a lot longer, driving has actually become cheaper. CAFE rules will not kill the private car; Europe and Asia are full of cars. You just don’t see seventeen foot long V-8 monsters driven by clock-punchers. Nor do people drive 6000 lb trucks to work. The only thing hard about CAFE is thinking outside the box. I’ve done it all my life and it is actually quite easy, not to mention extremely profitable.
Until the price of copper skyrocketed the Prius transaxle was cheaper to make than a conventional transaxle, not sure where it is with the current price of copper. It is the simplest transaxle with the least moving and total parts since the Model T. The batteries for Hybrids aren’t that expensive either, through aftermarket sources they can be had for much much less than what Toyota charges for replacements. When I checked a few years ago ones for the second gen (first gen to US buyers) could be had for less than $1500. As much as I am not a fan of Toyota and would never own one they are not stupid in producing Hybrids.
Of particular note as to the cost of all that “incredibly complex and expensive technology” is the fact that a Hybrid Lincoln MKZ has the same base price as the gas version.
I do agree that the fantasy CAFE regulations that are set to be imposed will be repealed but they won’t go away entirely.
Are you referring to Toyota making money on every car they sell or just the Hybrids, largely due to the fact that they bundle a lot of other high margin “options” on most of the non-Prius Hybrids. If you are referring to the latter I’d agree, but on the rest of the cars they are loosing money on a lot of them in the US (at least until they sell replacement parts) mainly due to the current exchange rates.
Carlos Ghosn is hardly French (Lebanese-Brazilian). And Toyota and Honda have done quite well under Japanese leadership, eh?
The real problem here is reverting to stereotypes: there are brilliant and capable leaders in every culture, as well as losers. Just look to Detroit’s checkered history for proof of that. Or any country’s.
Each company has its own biography, and Nissan was undoubtedly a very conservative one for way too long, in its earlier days.
Ah, but Ghosen is of the French culture; of French industry.
Nor am I glorifying the French, per se. Point I was making was, it took someone not of the rigid Japanese system to steer them in the right direction.
Mitsubishi needs this also.
Honda is, obviously, an exception – in many, many ways. Now that the founder is no longer there, they seem to be suffering creeping rigidity also, although not perhaps as bad as Toyota.
Toyota made its name on quality; and they’re making the most of it. But thinking outside the box, Priuii aside, seems not their strength.
Nor was I making a slam. Cultures have differences; recognizing them is scarcely ethnic attack. Mr. K’s experiences were detailed by David Halberstam in his book The Reckoning, 1983. In there, as one of many subplots, Halberstam related Yutaka Katayama’s endless difficulties with the Nissan management, and explored why they might have come to be.
Soichiro Honda retired in 1973 and died in 1991, over twenty years ago. Honda may be facing some recent challenges, but their biggest growth took place after his retirement.
I respectively take issue with part of your response. One of the greatest periods of economic growth in human history that took place was during the 90s. Almost every business in every sector saw growth.
In the 80s, Honda was superior to many other makes in quality, growth of market share, and customer retention. After the financial bubble burst in 98-99, and the subsequent economic woes (9/11, the housing market crash, credit crunch), Honda has seemed to flounder, with more underwhelming performances than other manufacturers relative to previous success.
Falling Accord sales. CRZ. Ridgeline. Underwhelming new Civic. Crosstour anyone? These are important market segments, and they lack a full-size pick-up, unlike Nissan and Toyota. Honda’s epic decline is only overshadowed in product by Chrysler, who had great success in the late 90s expansion but virtually no substantial success since (LX, Jeep, Ram are not enough to keep it alive on their own).
I’m rambling a bit but my main point is that Honda has been tangibly declining in a big way while (as CEOS) Ghosn, Mulally, Marchionne, Pieche and to a different extent Chris Bangle have seen great marketplace success with their strategies and ideas.
I agree with the folks on this thread that Honda is withering as a result of half-baked ideas (if that was indeed their point). Honda did simple, robust cars well. Very well. Cars, as products and consumer goods, have been relative failures recently for Honda IMHO. Honda has done well enough, way better than Mitsu, but worse than aforementioned others.
Out of curiosity, how is Honda doing in China, the fastest, most important market in the world, in regard to Toyota, GM, VAG, etc.
I’m not saying that there are no visionary Japanese executive that could lead Mitsubishi out of its doldrums, or that such people has to be non-Japanese. It’s just that the current executives seem to be of the company lifers, don’t rock the boat type of leadership school, while Mitsubishi seem to need the opposite. Honda too, to a lesser extent. Toyota may have been in such conservative mode the last few years, but cars like the FT-86 suggest that the old giant have started to wake up. Not to mention the growing, very successful Prius range.
Mitsubishi seem to be on the last gasp now they are offering 10 year warranties here in a bid to generate a few sales.
I can’t imagine any Mitsubishi dealers being around in 10 years.
Not true, Mitsu is quietly at the leading edge of the next big wave, electrics. A month ago one of my best friends turned in his 18-year-old-running-fine Eclipse for his new first-one-in-Oregon Mitsubishi electric car.
It’s a nice light four-seat commuter car, 60-80 mile range, somehow simpler, more direct and more fun than the bigger Leaf. Rear motor and batteries under the floor, RWD. Only $21K after the $7500 US tax credit. He’s real happy with it.
Mitsubishi is back.
Maybe; hopefully. If their future is largely based on the MiEV (which I’m rather attracted to, more than the Leaf) then it may be a stretch. How many will they sell, at what profit?
Time will tell. We’ll see a few this year, quite a few in three years, lots by 2020.
Oh I dunno. I had the petrol version as a courtesy car a couple years ago (they’ve been available in NZ since the Japanese launch), and it was the most emmasculating thing I’ve ever driven…
I don’t mind small cars (the original Ford Ka and original Mini are two of my favorite drives ever), but the iCar (as they’re called here) didn’t do much for me. Minimal power, minimal stability, minimal boot space, minimal interior quality. I did like the engine note (although it wasn’t minimal, it was loud at the 30,000rpm I had to do to get it to move). It may have been economical, but I’d take a 5 yr old Ford Ka any day. Mind you, the electric version may be much better in a purely urban commuting capacity.
The US Mitsubishi i electric car is a much bigger stretched version of the RHD Japanese kei car you probably drove, a foot longer and 4 inches wider. It has plenty of power, with that smooth immediate torque that makes electrics so good to drive. This car’s owner says he usually finds himself ahead off the green light without really trying.
I doubt the i MEV will save Mitsu in the US it’s too small to ever sell that many copies to US consumers.
It’s radical, and will never threaten the Civic for sales volume. But it’s about the same length as the current Mini Cooper with a 3-inch longer wheelbase.
I’ve sat in it, going back to the Paris auto show over a year ago. It’s a very appealing package: roomy, tall, good visibility. As I’ve said before, I think it’s a potentially a better basic design for an EV than the Leaf, inasmuch as I think EVs are going to be best kept/used in urban areas. The MiEV is a perfect urban run-about, and thus makes sense as an EV. Whether it will sell in sufficient quantities is another matter.
I think the urban market for EVs is overstated so many city dwellers don’t have the ability to install charging equipment. Around here, out in an extreme suburb of Seattle there are lots of Leafs blowing around. I know 3 people with them and one of them uses it for a commute to Seattle everyday, another has racked up 10K miles in his first 6 months of ownership. It appeals to a much broader market than the tiny Mitsu ever will. Sure there are people that would be happier with the smaller car but I just don’t see there being enough of them to save Mitsubishi in the US.
With this kind of deal I’d break my own rule of never buying new and would grab a post-2006 Pajero/Montero with a TD. Can’t really understand why they never tried to properly offer it here…
I always found those to be quiet attractive cars – assuming you could find one without the damned vinyl roof.
I always liked the look of these. From what I recall they sold decently well but disappeared pretty quick from active service on the streets. There is one here locally that is almost identical – even the same colour.
Wow; a doppellganger! Must be something about that paint.
I know when I was into Triumph Spitfires a lot of the guy swore up and down that the brown ones rusted less.
Too bad it didn’t work that way with my chocolate brown 1982 Celebrity…
Brown paint constitutes good protective coloration for rust…?
Bronzemist de merde turd metallic must have special protective properties, either that or our lady of brougham must be watching over the Sapporos.
Glad I wasn’t the one who got ahold of it. I’d be sorely tempted to do a “Fox Body Mustang Tribute” car because of the striking similarity.
I have to wonder, how long something like that will last as a daily driver. The drivetrain may be tough; but the bodies on Japanese cars of that era were tinfoil.
If I were him, I’d have a permanent FOR SALE sign on it…someone, somewhere is walking around with a wallet full of money, just waiting to be relieved of it…
A daily driver that’s prone to body-rot, with no tech-support for its archaic driveline…is not the way to go.
I wouldn’t really call the driveline archaic. That engine stuck around until 1990 in the Starion/Conquest, a version was used in the “hemi” powered K cars and a bunch of other vehicles. It’s not as popular as the 4G63 but there is support.
You’re spot on on the sheet metal though. It’d probably never make more than 5 years in Illinois as a driver.
It was also used in a fair number of Chrysler minivans, wasn’t it?
As well as a raft of Mitsu/Dodge/Plymouth pickups, and the Montero/Pajero/Raider 4×4. Except for an issue with the cam chain tensioner, it’s a pretty tough motor.
Like a lot of Mitsu’s I think they wear the valve guides quickly & smoke. Very good torque though, I think it peaked at 2400rpm
The bodies weren’t tin foil. They may have rusted in the Salt Belt, but they’re doing just fine in our rainy Pacific NW. How many old Japanese cars do I have to photograph to prove that? And I guess he’s proving you wrong, given that it’s been his DD for seven years now. Looks like its holding up pretty well, eh?
To be fair for a long time everything rotted in the rust belt, not just imports. It did seem like the imports suffered earlier deaths out our way though.
You’ve proved the PNW as a car nut’s paradise, import or domestic. That’s for certain
I live in the PacNW but have spent lots of months recently in Colorado and the midwest. The difference in older Japanese iron is striking. The Sapporo certainly isn’t common anywhere, but like-vintage Toyotas and Hondas and Datsuns are usually within walking distance of wherever you happen to be in the PNW. I love it!
It looks a bit like what would have happened if AMC built a Mustang. I wonder if a 3.5 V6 from an Intrepid would shoehorn into that engine bay..
Hah. Perfect description.
I’d think so, I’ve seen a sedan with a 351C in it, which takes a bit more room than a 351W.
I often see a Sapporo on the motorway heading to work in the morning, so maybe there are two used as daily drivers! The one I see isn’t in great condition though – it’s an alarming shade of sky blue which looks suspiciously like house paint – but it’s still nice to see it! Here in NZ they were sold new in both Mitsubishi and Chrysler dealerships. The Mitsi-badged ones were imported built-up from Japan, and the Chrysler-badged ones were imported built-up from Chrysler Australia (which was bought out by Mitsi not long after).
The office guy where I worked in Geevston in Tassie ran a Mitsi version to and fro from Hobart every day it was a one owner minter when he got it
I am late but had to weigh in on this car. I considered this one of the most attractive imports back then, it certainly had the most “Americanized” styling, in a modern, post-brougham kind of way. I liked the hardtop body that was becoming increasingly rare then.
A friend bought the Dodge Challenger version of this car. I rode in it once and he seemed to like it too. I always wondered why Chrysler chose such an overtly Japanese name for the car. This would have made the perfect Sebring.
I just saw a Sapporo for the first time. I did a Google search to learn more. It brought me here. THIS IS THE EXACT SANE CAR I SAW! Crazy small world we live in.