Another typical summer evening street scene in Curbsidelandia; or maybe it’s a bit better than average. Since the definition of “CC” is a bit amorphous, there’s no hard and fast number we’re looking for. Which is of course very much in the spirit of Eugene. But these two coupes do deserve another look from the front.
It’s not every day one sees two of the best coupe efforts by GM and Ford in the early 80s side-by-side. Which do you like better?
Make mine the T-Bird please!!
The Bird please. Then again, is that a 1st gen GTi across the street?
Styling-wise, it’s a draw. Did own an ’88 T-Bird Sport for seven years, so I’m more than a bit biased. If I had to choose now, go ahead and make it an 84-85 Riv, T-Type if you please.
Well you have the two cars in the foreground.
I see two VW Golfs. Mk 1 and mk 3 ( to the left of the BMw 5’er)
A bmw 5 series.
You have the Toyota MPV behind the prius.
The aqua marine Chevy SUV.
Possibly the white saloon to the far left of the shot.
And perhaps the blue car to the right of the VW golf mk4 estate.
So that is 7 certain cc’s.
And two or three possible If you include the last two and whether or not you count a VW mk4 Wagon(estate) as a CC.
I count 6 – Riviera, Thunderbird, Rabbit, Golf, BMW, Toyota van.
Prius – I don’t think so.
Definitely not yet, given it’s a current one.
Come back in 20 years- the 5 year olds of today will want one ‘like Dad had’!
It is easy to forget how attractive the 1983-86 Thunderbird was. This was the best looking car to come out of Ford since . . . I’m not sure.
I still see these Rivieras from time to time. Good mechanicals, fairly rust resistant and owned by older people who took care of their stuff. The Birds disappeared much sooner, as most became ordinary used cars that were eventually killed by head gaskets in the 3.8 or a failed AOD transmission.
That Gen1 GTI is calling my name.
Head gasket failures were behind the demise of both my 1984 Fox Marquis and my 1988 Thunderbird. They also were lethally infected with the horrible tin-worm within 5 years. In 1992 and 1994 respectively, both of these cars were considered “old”. On the other hand, my 1998 rust-free Taurus lasted “forever” (until blow-by made it impractical to keep it at 340,000 km) and I don’t think we will even consider replacing my wife’s (rust-belt location, but rust-free vehicle at 170,000 km) 2005 Freestyle soon.
How far Ford has come in terms of longevity and quality.
I’d put it at 5 – Tbird, Riv, Rabbit, E12 5er, and Toyovan. The Golf seems too new to me to be a CC, the Jetta wagon definitely too recent.
Isn’t the white car at left just a early 00’s Mercury Sable, unless I’m missing something?
Yep, definitely a Sable. Too new to be a CC?
As much as I appreciate the aero T-Birds, that Riviera appeals to me as one of the last “real” Buicks. My orthodontist drove one. My guess is today orthodontists all drive big Mercedes or BMW SUVs.
My kid’s dentist has the small Benz CUV. Not sure what their ortho drives, husband and wife team that I know are well off. Very likely a Benz or BMW in the mix.
Not sure about my dentist, but the oral surgeon who did some work on me in 2012 drove a Maserati GranTurismo. Bright red, a real head-turner. Considering he wasn’t even that old (might have been around my age, no way he was over 40) I guess the money was pretty good!
Not a Sable.The 00-05 Sable had a flatter trunk with a thin silver piece of trim with the Mercury symbol in the middle of the trunk that also acted like a handle to grab hold of to open the trunk.
It might be a Daewoo Laganza or a Suzuki Verona.
Both the Leganza and the Verona have taillamps that come to a point at the top. If this isn’t a Sable (which I’m not 100% convinced of) could it be a Hyundai Sonata of the same era? The white portion of the taillights doesn’t look to be in the right place (reflection or non-stock?) but everything else looks about right.
And I didn’t answer the question posed–I think the T-Bird is a thoroughly better-looking car but it has to depend on the engine. I don’t think there is enough blackout trim for it to be a TC, so If the ‘bird is a 3.8 I’d probably take the Riv. If it’s a 5.0, Thunderbird all the way.
You might be right about the Sonata. A look at the 2000-2005 Sonata back end shows a marked likeness to the car in the pic.
It is not a Sable. Sadly I have been around too many Taurus and sables to know this. Here is a pic I took and posted weeks ago of a Broughamed out (or is it a Boh hamed out car?(another Natty Boh hun?) Mercury Sable of the 2000-2005 era
Sonata it is. Here’s a crop of the original:
I can’t decide if the fact that we’re pointedly discussing a somewhat blurry 10 year old midsize shows dedication, or if it’s just sad. 🙂
The Riviera minus the vinyl roof.
Maybe it’s because I grew up when they were new, but to me this generation of the E-body (especially the Riviera) simply looks wrong without the padded half top. Even then to me it said “rich cheapskate”.
I will say that the Eldorado in certain colors looked good without the vinyl.
Love that Riv!
I thought the aero T-birds were kind of ugly until the 1987 refresh. That added just enough sharp edges and balanced out the jelly bean effect.
While I don’t at all dislike the ’83 to ’86 Thunderbird, I think the ’87-’88 Turbo coupe is just beautiful. Good call there.
Seconded.
To my eye, the T-bird is the only bodystyle that took the aero treatment and came out looking good. I still prefer the sealed beam look better (as in most cars) but this actually looks good.
I think I’d take the Riviera. The 2-door Rabbit is also calling to me because my first car was one of those, but I’m pretending I don’t hear it.
The Honda CR-V in the background will one day be a textbook Curbside Classic: all over the place now, but they will mostly disappear from the roads and be fondly remembered. We went hiking while on vacation last week. In the parking lot there were 5 or 6 CR-V’s. They were all 3rd and 4th gen except for our 2nd gen.
I’ll take the Riviera any day of the week. As for the CC count, it is definitely 5: obviously the Riviera and the T-bird, also the grey VW, BMW 5 series and the Toyota van.
My first car after turning 16 was a Riviera just like the one in the photo. Very comfortable car but spent more time at the dealership than it did at home. As soon as the warranty ran out I sold it. I would like to have another one just for the memories but I am sure the Thunderbird is a more dependable car and had to be faster.
The later Rivieras (’84-’85) with the Olds 307 were about as bulletproof as could be had from the Big 3 in the mid ’80s. The later Rivs would also get the edge in dependability as the T-Birds had issues (I could vouch for both with my ’88) with the head gaskets on the V6 cars and the AOD transmission regardless of engine.
Despite its issues, my ’88 T-Bird was still the best all around car I’ve ever had. It could run all day at 70+ and still do a consistent 32 mpg. The AOD finally gave out at 218K, but the high school kid who bought it fixed the transmission, put on a set of “porthole” wheels from a T-Bird Elan/LX (mine was a base model) and drove it for several more years.
I would choose the T-Bird over the Riv simply because you could get fuel injection in the T-Bird where as unless you plunked down some serious cash for the T- Type Riv, you were looking at a Riv with a carb.
The Riv by a nose. I liked this Bird / Cougar enough to look at an ’84 Cougar and eventually owned an ’89 Bird on the next platform. The Riv got so much right, it was back to its first gen roots without being wildly retro. These really are two of the best American coupes of the time. This time, I really would rather have the Buick – I’ve reached the desired demographic for it.
The T-bird is my favorite. Might be an ’86. I had an ’86 and that was one nice car. Would have kept it, but it rotted out so bad from road salt used thru the long Maine winter that it would not pass safety inspection and I had yo junk it. Too bad.
T-bird by a mile over the Riv. But of all the CC’s pictured, the ’83 or ’84 Rabbit GTI takes my money…Hopefully it has the bordello red interior.
Speaking of Rabbits, i saw a square-lamp bunny just yesterday (predictive CC effect?). Not a GTI, but instead I noticed as it drove past it was badged “Rabbit C”. What sort of model was the “C”, I wonder?
Assuming you are in the US, I don’t believe there ever was a Rabbit C sold here. There was a Rabbit “S” in 1982 that looked like the ’83/’84 GTI but without the uprated engine.
There WAS a square headlight Rabbit C in Mexico which certainly could have hopped across the border…
I’m in Virginia, but it could have been an ex-Mexican C. It’s a long way from home but I’ve seen a couple of Mexican vehicles on the road here that weren’t sold in the US, a K12 Nissan Micra back in 2006-07 and a BMW 120i hatchback earlier this year.
Yes there was a Rabbit “C” sold in the US, I’m pretty sure it was the base model or one step up from the base. This ad seems to imply that it was the base model. From my reading of it they are touting how an AM radio is included in the C while the L gets you a AM/FM standard.
Wow, thanks for that, I had no idea. Never seen one in the flesh or able to find anything about it. That ad was interesting. I like the fact that they pointed out the black grille was “good-looking”.
Sounds like the C stands for Cheap.
My favorite Rabbits were the German-built fuel-injected cars. When I was a kid I could tell you the difference between every trim level on those. There was a base with no grade emblem on the back, a C for Custom and then the top-of-the-line L for Luxury.
The L was one plush puppy. It had wood and thick velour seats that you could get in green or burgundy. The green came with a light green exterior and the burgundy with a light mauve. The clearcoats didn’t last long but looked a mile deep when new. The Ls gave the impression of a small Mercedes and were super expensive for the time.
I’m going with the Riviera. Not only has the styling aged better but on later models you could get the smooth and torquey Oldsmobile 307 V8. With the 4-speed OD the Riv was the last, not-too-big and economical car with classic Bill Mitchell styling.
I leave out the Eldorado because most years had the 4100 and the Toronado was kinda ugly. It KILLS me the Eldo never got the 307+OD because that would have been perfect… sheer look, meets long hood in a compact, reliable coupe.
The ride quality in the Riv is going to be better than the Tbird. What a terrific daily driver!
It would be fun to have those owners switch cars for a day and comment on the other guy’s car. I always thought that would make a fun web site or series.
When I ordered my Riviera in 81 the company was only taking orders for the V6 and the diesel. I probably would have kept the car much longer had I been able to get the V8. The V6 was so problematic and weak I kept the car about a year and four months before selling it. I replaced it with a diesel Riviera which was an okay car until it hit 60,000. That was my last GM daily driver.
Hemmings did a really good comparo a couple of years ago of a Riv and Tbird of this era (both special editions), owned by the same guy (Sanjay Mehta, who I think is a reader of this blog).
http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2012/09/01/hmn_feature2.html
Ask and you shall receive! If nothing else it goes to show that these are both fine cars. Although Sanjay didn’t seem to pick a favorite reading between the lines I think he likes the Riv better but finds the Tbird’s story more interesting. Me too.
I knew nothing about that ’83 Anniversary Edition Riv. The interior is unbelievably nice and would make a brown lover out of anyone. Just outstanding.
I thought I would like the exterior without a vinyl top but the Riv looks naked without it. Maybe it’s the missing “R” emblem on the C-pillar. The side mirror would have looked better bodycolor and it looks like the chrome rocker moldings were replaced with brown ones. Sometimes it’s best not to mess with perfection! As for the drive the car would have been even nicer with the later high swirl heads.
Loved the article and thanks for posting. Odd no one left comments there would have been a ton at CC.
The sueded out 20th Anniversary interior stayed as a regular Riviera option through 1985, its rare, but I’ve seen a few Rivieras with it. The Anniversary Riviera is interesting, the color scheme theme and the painted wire wheels give it a 1920’s vibe.
I agree on the 1920’s vibe – I think it’s the painted wires that do it for me. Plus it seems to be sitting oddly high; recent shock replacement? Plus something about the way the two-tone is treated.
Maybe it was different in 1983 but the fact that some of the trim that is chrome on the standard car is painted here also looks a little odd to me. Maybe it would look more upmarket in a darker color. The interior though, now that looks truly deluxe.
I’d dispute the Riv having aged better; quite the opposite IMO, the Riv is boxy and broughamy enough to clearly and obviously be of a bygone era while the T-bird is still in that dated-but-not-quite-retro phase.
The Riv looks “older” in a more timeless and classic way. In that sense it is ageless. The Tbird suffers from a short wheelbase appearance and boatload of styling cliches from its immediate era.
There is the thin black side molding going around the whole car like a hula hoop. That and the pocket headlamps say dated not classic to me. The Mercedes 201 and 124 had the same problem — ever notice how much older the ’88 and earlier cars look than the ’89+? These areas were handled differently on the Mark VII (and later Tbirds) and have aged better.
The Riv draws its detailing from the 60s and 70s and doesn’t have as many cliches. The WB is long for the OAL which gives the car excellent proportions. I suppose the separate bumpers look older than the ones on the Tbird but they are magnificent and again classic.
One big let down on the Tbird is that antenna mast on the front fender.
Make mine the Riviera!
Based on looks it has to be the T-bird as the Riviera is one ugly looking car.
The T-bird’s a beauty, and the color is great. I don’t remember seeing that color on them, I wonder if it’s factory. The Buick’s also nice, I had to think about it for a while before I chose the Ford. Those GTI’s are becoming rare, if I can’t have the T-bird I’ll take that. I know it’s hard to tell from pictures, but all the CC’s shown seem to be in really good condition. Nice find.
From how shiny it looks it may have been repainted but the color looks pretty similar to my now faded 83.
Tossing a few back at Sam Bond’s, Paul? 😀
Love the Toyovan, but that shouldn’t surprise anyone.
T-bird by a country mile. They still look fresh to me today except for the sealed beams. Can’t say that about any of the other CCs in that shot. It is event still wearing the rubber (polycast) wheels and it doesn’t seem that they have lost much if any of their paint.
I’d say 5
I like em both, but the Tbird wins by the lack of vinyl carriage top. The Cougar was a very good blend of these two cars.
I’m kinda surprised at how little love the Riviera is getting. Usually this crowd embraces broughams! Obviously the TBird is much more modern looking, but I wouldn’t expect modernity to be the main criteria for liking a car here at Curbside Classic. These cars have two completely different “looks”, and I think they both pulled theirs off well.
I do think this Riviera would look a lot better against this TBird if it were fresher looking, a better color, didn’t have the vinyl roof (which IMO did it no favors) and had whitewalls. The TBird looks good without them, but the Riviera needs whitewalls, especially with those wire wheels.
That is a Sonata on the street.
The Riv and the Bird are my two favorite ’80s cars…that pic is kind of like going back in time a couple of decades!
Riviera
Riviera
Riviera
Riviera
Riviera
And just in case….
Riviera.
My choice would be the T-bird. It looks global mainstream and smart; the Riviera’s style is more American Oddity, a style which never went big outside the US, and which GM hung onto for way too long. That design was unworthy of the name Riviera. And what’s with ye olde-fashioned push-button doorhandles?
Cue Jethro Tull, “Living in the Past”.
I’ve never understood the love for the styling of this generation Riviera. In the downsizing era, GM was afraid to design a car without straight edges, lest it look inefficient and impractical. But they knew this would be a problem on a personal luxury car. So they gave the beltline a couple of half-assed up and down curves that have nothing to do with the right angles on the rest of the car. The T-Bird, on the other hand, regardless of whether one likes it, is objectively a more properly considered three-dimensional mass.
The Riv’s sister was a downsized personal coupe with straight edges. The ’78 G-body coupes were also pretty straight-edged. All were beautiful cars.
I liked how they could do something a little different on the Riviera and it still looked great. It was a combination of GM’s best design ideas from the 60s, 70s and 80s.
Of the two, T-bird for the win. If you take them each at face value, stock to stock then its more of a wash. I tend to look at a car more for what it CAN be than what it is at the moment. As they sit, both are definitely oriented more for comfort than speed. However, the Riv isn’t exactly an upgrade-friendly sled, with its fwd/large engine format. The ThunderChicken of course is Fox based, which means pick your poison. The sheer number of plug and play upgrades means mad potential.
The ‘Bird’s wheels are absolutely HORRIBLE. Why Ford ever approved of such a frumpy design, Ill never know. On these and the Mustangs, they just said ‘Hey, Im slow!’ The turbine style wheels from the late 80s GT ‘Stang would make that T-bird pop.
“As they sit, both are definitely oriented more for comfort than speed. However, the Riv isn’t exactly an upgrade-friendly sled, with its fwd/large engine format. The ThunderChicken of course is Fox based, which means pick your poison. The sheer number of plug and play upgrades means mad potential.”
Why bother? You can only reasonably go so fast before Johnny Law or the Laws of Physics and Biology say you can’t drive anymore. Nah, give me the Riv. I’d much rather ooze around town in GM personal luxury than do burnouts with the high school kids any day.