One of the cars that seems to consistently brings out the latent hater in everybody is the Toyota Echo. Why? Did I have to ask?
I was in Europe in 1999 when I first saw the (non-Echo) new Yaris, and at the time it managed to stand out quite positively among all the European competition in that crowded category (I’m speaking design-wise). Its wedge shape was effective in helping mask its tall overall stance, which was of course to improve passenger space. And it was something of a leader, in that regard, of a trend that has become increasingly wide-spread. It makes for great accommodations in a small car. But its always a challenge to make a tall small car look like it’s not tipping over or such.
But Toyota decided that Americans weren’t ready for little hatches yet (again), and punked us with the trunked Echo, also called the Toyota Platz in Japan. Some designs just don’t lend themselves to be changed like this. What looked sassy, now looked gassy. In the Yaris hatch, the rear wheels are so close to the rear of the car, without any overhang, it doesn’t matter that they look a bit small. In the Echo sedan, they suddenly look like roller-skate wheels.
The Yaris’ B pillar is a very critical part of the overall design, and really integrates it.
On the Echo two-door sedan, Toyota even went to the effort to black out the B pillar. And somehow, what works quite well enough in a bob-tailed hatchback design just didn’t at all with a big grafted-on trunk. It’s a problem many of Europe’s little hatchbacks struggled with when they had a similar trunk-ectomy.
It was a lost cause by then anyway. The Echo was a big disappointment, sales wise, in the US. It was a rare case of folks shunning Toyota’s reliability reputation, simply because the car looked so dorky. And yes, these cars are reliable. I should know, since I drive one, with a different body on a lengthened Yaris platform (Scion xB).
Obviously, Toyota learned its lesson, and the Yaris Mk2 came with both the hatch as well as the Yaris name. It still didn’t hasn’t set the sales stats on fire, but that might be for other reasons.
And the Mk 3 Yaris now only comes in hatchback form. Live and learn. Although Toyota still hasn’t quite learned how to make it be a class-leader instead of a class-follower.
These things are really tall and narrow, and the narrowness emphasizes the tallness even more- it’s very circular! I think they probably looked better on Japan’s crowed and narrow streets. Too bad Toyota couldn’t have figured out how to make the tires/wheels just a bit larger, would have helped to offset the ungainly proportions.
I’ve seen quite a few of these up here in southern Ontario, so maybe Canadians are more receptive to these than Americans are.
You’re right the problem with these is they look tall and ungainly. The Tercel had much better proportions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tercel#/media/File:1998-99_Toyota_Tercel_Sedan.JPG
I don’t know how a firm which could do the ’80s Tercel so well could blow it so badly on the Echo.
Here’s a howler: Wiki says “Yaris” derives from the singular form of Charities, the Greek goddesses of Charm & Beauty.
If you turn a wedge-shaped hatchback into a sedan then you get a bad looking, clumsy little car with odd proportions. Look at the current Ford Fiesta sedan, it looks just as silly as the Echo.
The trunked Fiesta does rank quite high on the list of “cars that look ridiculous as a sedan”. Perversely they persist in making the base models of both the Fiesta and the Focus sedans for the US market–perhaps they’re trying to create some sort of upmarket vibe around the 5-door, or perhaps they’re penalizing low-trim buyers by sticking them with the ungainly one!
Compared to the Camry and the Corolla, the Yaris was amazingly ugly. It was hard to believe it was a Toyota.
UGH. Brings me right back to college. I have a degree in advertising, and one of our senior projects was to come up with an ad campaign for this exact car. Al thru the mid-south, other schools were working on the same thing. This car hadn’t dropped just yet and they were REALLY pushing hard to court the 18-35 crowd. With…THIS….thing. This was in ’98, so a few years pre-Scion. The Celica had just been redesigned and the MR Spyder was also ramping up. They chose THIS car for us (the target market) to build an advertising strategy around. Needless to say, when we did focus groups and researched….young people were NOT impressed.
These, for all their ugliness and lack of any charm…or even a decent driving experience DID make for great cars…for the elderly. Ive never seen anyone under 50 driving one that I can remember.
Not sure who you think is elderly. I’m 71 and haven’t got around to feeling really old yet. Much as I like the idea of driving a youthful five door hatch we drive something far more mature and reasonable, a Nissan Cube.
My mother was at a Toyota dealer when these were new and sat in one in the showroom. After that all she could talk about was how much she wanted an Echo. It was only after she finally got one that we understood why. The seats are firm and much higher up compared to her old Corolla and all the other cars in the family fleet. This made getting in and out much easier on her arthritic knees.
The styling actually grows on you after a while and they do feel quite roomy inside. Like they squeezed a Corolla til it bulged up in the middle.
Of the few I see around town, they are driven by people under 50, but usually in the guise of either recent immigrants from across the border or folks who look like they simply couldn’t afford anything other than a beat down Echo.
As to the car itself, no thanks. If I was in the market for a Toyota, I wouldn’t go any lower than an Avalon.
A Toyotaaaa…..on CCccccc……better take coverrrrrr…..
The Tercel was a real beauty compared to the Echo. Totally out of proportion. I’m sure it’s a good car, but the motorized skate board looks probably make it a good (cheap) value in the used car market. I’m not too picky on what I drive, but would not choose this.
The 1999 Toyota Yaris hatchback (a Toyota Europe design, mainly built in France), as shown above, was the European Car of the Year 2000. Highly successful, being the successor of this Starlet.
The hatchback version looks much better on this car, The Versa is another example that looks OK as a hatchback but pretty ugly as a sedan. The Jetta on the other hand carries it’s Golf with a trunk look well.
The Jetta seems to be the exception to the “ugly trunk on hatchback” rule.
I quite forgot about this Yaris.
The little red 5-door hatch above is a Toyota Starlet. You can see why the 1999 Yaris, being the Starlet’s successor, was quite a revelation.
That explains my momentary lapse. I should have read your comment more carefully, and of course remembered the last Starlet.
I knew a girl in college that had one and on Friday nights it was let’s see how many people could fit in the Echo. She said it was like a circus beetle. six to seven people in the little thing.
I Just could never get used to having the gauge cluster in the center of the dash. Clearly that was the ambidextrous way of keeping costs down but I would hate having to look to the right all the time.
It grows on you just the the gen 1 rav-4. Thought that was the ugliest little car I had ever seen at the time but now I kinda like them.
I also think about 50% of echos are this dorky blue-teal color too.
They just look like something designed for India or Brazil, too tall, too narrow, too obviously a hatch with a trunk grafted on.
And we haven’t even gotten into its Playskool plastic interior with the much maligned center gauges.
Bleh
The 2000-05 Toyota Echo may have been a real disappointment style wise because it was replacing the conservatively designed Tercel which was discontinued in the U.S. after 1998 and 1999 in Canada, but inspite of those shortcomings the Echo was very much a dependable fuel efficient car which I hate to say one of the last quality models Toyota ever produced since it was the least recalled model after the 1998-02 Toyota Corolla. The 2000-05 Toyota Echo also had a conservative sedan body which was only produced for Southeast Asian Countries and the model was and continued to be called the Vios. Other than their styling differences with the Echo and the 2004-07 1G Vios were essentially the same cars since both used the same chassis and their riding and handling characteristics having ridden both were identical as well especially with the 1.3 litre 4 cylinder engine. But where the Vios Sedan of this genre were sold, the Echo Sedan was not available to prevent intramural competition of the same makes plus in accordance to peoples’ taste and preference for a specific design as well. Even though the Vios was redesigned in 2008 to be the same car as our 2008 Yaris Sedan, the older Echo and later 1G Vios moved on to India as their own Toyota Etios which continually being built today using the same ancient chassis/platform from the Echo/Vios. The body design of the Etios is almost identical to the 1G Vios and even in size as well since they were smidgen larger than the Echo Sedan.
Was this article prompted by the recent Jony Ive (Apple head of design) interview where he highlighted the Echo as an example of bad design? Or just a coincidence? I agree it’s pretty hard to feel any love for the styling of these cars but I seem to recall that the first-gen Tercel was considered pretty ungainly in its day as well.
Since the current Vitz based Toyota Yaris 5 Door Hatchback was also mentioned on this context, its platform and size is almost identical to the ones used for Prius c aka Aqua in Japan. The Yaris made for the Southeast Asian and other markets were completely different. Their Yaris 5 Door Hatchback was based more on a chopped 3G Toyota Vios 4 Door Sedan chassis.
The current Yaris hatchback. Personally I think that the big black mouth is too much, Toyota’s X-face looks better on the smaller Aygo model. Luckily the central dash of the previous gen has gone.
Available with two gasoline engines (1.0 and 1.3), a 1.4 diesel and a 1.5 gasoline-hybrid.
B-segment cars with a trunk have gone the way of the dodo in Europe.
YES I like the previous front end. The current one looks rather grotesque.
“grotesque”…that’s the perfect word to describe it.
Interior. This one has a 6 speed manual, obviously.
At least they got rid of the goofy center mounted instrument panel
Lastly my 1:18 Scale Toyota Echo and Vios 4 Door Sedan Collection.
Ugh I think of the cars I wish were 1:18 diecasts and arent, yet those are!
Fujimi also did a 1/24 scale plastic kit. With undersized wheels no less! (What are supposed to be 14″s size up to 12″).
YES I got those as well and I assembled both of them one in Black and the other in White 2-3 years ago after purchasing both of them from an E-Bayer. Both did not came in cheap though. They are 1:24 Scale Model Kits exactly made by Fujimi.
I’ve built a lot of model cars, but I never bought those. Fujimi produced lots of kits I’d rather have – like Silvias and Skylines!
Exactly. Looked for years for a boattailed Riviera, Conti Mark III, ’67 Marlin, LeBaron Convertible, and 90’s Mercury Marauder, and they make Echo models????
Cool!
Robin Williams drove one of these in “One Hour Photo.” ‘Nuff said….
RIP.
Thank God Connie Nielsen is still with us…
…”class-leader instead of a class-follower”…
Class-leaders in this segment are the Ford Fiesta, Volkswagen Polo, Renault Clio and Peugeot 208. Pick your own favorite, mine is the Peugeot.
I preferred the sedan version of the Echo, especially the more practical 4 door form. The 2 door hatchback version reminded me of the Gremlin approach – i.e. an arbitrary chopping of a more-or-less standard sedan to turn it into a smaller and ultimately less usable vehicle, the very opposite of ‘practical’ hatchback philosophy.
But the sedan was an unusual looking package. There were reports in Canada at the time of Echo sedans being keyed, sometimes multiple cars in a single neighbourhood in a single day. The suggestion was that the decidedly non-macho appearance sparked aggression from some people. An interesting phenomenon.
That’s rather fascinating that the malformed Echo could inspire enough ire to warrant some cretins to randomly vandalize them.
To me, they seem sort of like the ‘anti-Beetle’. The VW Beetle inspired affection due to what was perceived as a cute appearance. It seems like Toyota was striving for the same sort of thing with the Echo, but it turned out just the opposite, with a severely negative reaction.
It’s as if the marketing departments often strive for a unique appearance with the lowest rung vehicles, I suppose because they’re penalty boxes in nearly every other respect. Maybe there’s some sort of credo that states cheap cars with a conservative appearance won’t sell. Frankly, most times, it just doesn’t work. Even the successful and vaunted Honda Fit has an odd appearance to it, which is certainly by design.
Nissan-Renault had a particularly egregious example of the grafted-on-trunk concept, the Mexican-market Nissan Platina (Apparently a Renault Clio 5 Door with the aforementioned trunk).
I was in Mexico in 2009 and, if I recall correctly, it was the cheapest car you could buy new (Even cheaper than the B13 based Nissan Tsuru). I have a picture but can’t get it to load, perhaps mercifully so…
Sounds like the Renault Thalia. Butt ugly but with an enormous boot. Still reasonably succesfull in Central and Eastern Europe https://www.google.nl/search?q=renaul+t+thalia&tbm=isch&imgil=GSfANEXgj3ESgM%253A%253BzMwZ4AMNQA2XLM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fde.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FRenault_Clio_II&source=iu&pf=m&fir=GSfANEXgj3ESgM%253A%252CzMwZ4AMNQA2XLM%252C_&usg=__FCkr9kzJ1xtrOso2BbvZzBTmohs%3D&biw=1227&bih=583&ved=0CDwQyjc&ei=q6BGVce3IpLuaPT0gZgD
Yep, that’s it.
Only difference was the badging.
I am a rabid car nut (‘Vettes, a Fiero, a Wrangler, Alfa, Fiat and Eclipse Spyders, 2 Firebirds, a Javelin, a Mustang, etc, and still have my ’66 Marlin) so you can imagine my reaction to my sister’s black 4 door Echo…….What a horrible monstrosity of non-automotive style. Looks like Charles Schulz designed it! CHEAP interior. And the middle of dash guages are just weird. (Saturn, in it’s deathroes copied it on the Ion…) One of the car rags called it “hideously ugly”! The out-going Tercel was seductive by comparison. HOWEVER, 10+years later, I must say it has been fabulously reliable. But, I still cringe every time I pull into her driveway. LOL! I pray for world peace and the day my sister trades in her Echo. Wish I had a picture to post of my ’06 Corvette convertible parked beside it–looked like an inter-dimensional warp had taken place!
The Charles Schultz analogy is apt. The Echo is one of those vehicles that seems more like a caricature than an actual, real automobile. IOW, something you might see on an episode of The Simpsons.
I too have owned firebirds, fiero’s, and currently own a c5 corvette, I have always liked the quirky 2 door echo, I don’t know why!
best reply of many good ones–you sum up my feelings better than I could right now, bravo Ray
Kind of reminds me of when VW screwed on a trunk to the first gen Rabbit/Golf and called it a Jetta.
Owned an ’80 2 Door Jetta. I always thought it had kind of an early BMW look to it. VW did a good job hiding it’s Rabbit’s roots. Never disliked it’s looks at all. I do think the Ist gen’s look better in 2 doors form which was kind of rare, most were 4 doors.
You’d better compare the Toyota Echo sedan with the contemporary Volkswagen Polo sedan (picture below), since these are both sub-compacts (B-segment).
The somewhat bigger Jetta was based on the C-segment Golf. In Europe the Golf sedan changed its name a few times, from Jetta to Vento to Bora to Jetta again. Compact and sub-compact sedans are still relatively popular in southern Europe; further up north the hatchback is the first choice. The bigger cars (D- and E-segment) like a Volkswagen Passat, BMW 5-series and Audi A6 are sedans; ditto the high end F-segment, like a Mercedes S-class or Audi A8.
Note that I exclude wagons, coupes and French D-segment hatchbacks. To keep it simple….
I’d sooner drive this than some vehicle that fits most people’s sense of style with periodic service issues. I can think of endless vehicles that I’d pass for one of these. Yes, I can also think of many other vehicles I’d prefer, but I don’t think these are that bad. Just leave off the ground effects junk.
agree about the ground effects
Well it seems that all those unloved Echos and Yaris have ended over here in Puerto Rico.
It seems that the combination of excellent reliablity, low price and really good fuel economy, won people over the ugly looks. In fact over here, used ones from 2003-05 in excellent condition are still sold in the $4000-$5000 thousand dollars range.
I actully like Echos but only from 2003-05 years. The restyle they got in that year make them less ugly than the earlier ones.
Gee, a car that is cheap to run, drives well, is as reliable as your fridge and costs peanuts to drive. I hate it! I hate it!
It is interesting to see the difference in the Canadian and US markets. Hatches are very popular here and handily outsell sedans in every model. We got the Echo hatch from the beginning, and it did well for Toyota in Canada. I have driven this generation of Echo, and the cars and lively and fun to scoot around the city, easy to park and cheap on gas.
It is an interesting observation on the difference and I would bet you much of that has to do with gas prices in Canada being considerably higher.
Here in America, at least for some of us, attributes like “cheap to run” and “costs peanuts to drive” are pretty irrelevant. I’m a sedan man, and I’ll gladly pay more in gas for a smooth running and reasonably powerful drivetrain in something impressively large. It will absolutely not be a hatchback, that isn’t the image I want to project. Also, it had damn well better be dripping chrome.
I have no problem with cars like the Echo or Yaris or Geo-they do the job they were designed to do, getting you from point A to point B. But since I am not forced to go that far down ladder by my financial situation, I simply will not tolerate a penalty box.
I think if I lived in the US I would also want a big comfy quiet car to waft down the highways etc. Much of the US is built for this kind of car. I grew up in the UK, which is very much NOT built for this kind of car. I had a similar hatchback-with-a-boot-bolted-on https://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncategorized/cohort-outtake-opel-corsa-sedan-worst-three-box-adaptation-ever/ which was handy in London’s narrow congested streets and reasonably agile on the back roads. It was actually quite fun to drive as well – you could drive it really hard and still be not far above the speed limit. On the motorway it was a bit buzzy, but I didn’t spend much time on the motorway in it. I appreciated it’s cheap-to-run nature at a time of my life when I didn’t have much money.
Now I’m a bit better off (and live in NZ) I have a big CUV thing that is very good at wafting in great comfort, and very bad at being fun to drive. I MUCH prefer to drive my wife’s 1978 Mini 1275 GT, despite it being a 100 times less comfortable. Mind you, I don’t do long trips in it.
Very true, I suppose if I lived in England in the equivalent socio-economical position I occupy in the States I’d be driving at least a mid-size if not smaller. While I’d love to visit jolly ol’ England or any other part of Europe, I appreciate the fact that my ancestors left the Old Country with no intention of going back.
For me, the way a big luxury/near luxury sedan handles and absorbs bumps and potholes plus the looks you get from other people is what makes it “fun” to drive. I did find my big SUVs I’ve had in the past less remarkable, but its all context. Put them out on a really muddy or snowy road and that was their fun zone.
Trunks are very handy. They keep your stuff out of sight of criminals and cops and run-of-the-mill nosy people.
They also just look better/classier in my opinion. That is the one thing that kills it for me with the Tesla S-its a hatchback. Probably the best looking hatchback out there, but I think it would have looked a thousand times better with a nice long trunk.
And has a playschool flimsy interior, loads of noise, terrible dash design, no interior space unless you like to wear hats, no power and looks like a clown car. Oh and it’s ride is real lovely with the tossing and pitching from it’s ungainly stance. It’s no wonder I rarely ever see these on the road anymore. Proof if ever was needed that there is more to a car than good MPG!
Exactly!
My only comment is the designers were thinking- “We do not like cars. And this is what we are going to build.”
The only thing about the Echo that was an absolute deal-breaker for me was the centrally mounted speedometer. It’s like Toyota was punishing their customers for not stepping up to the Corolla. Other than that, these are great cars, as I’ve been told by owners.
While I hated the central pod thingy, the Yaris body pan was sold all over the world, not just in the USA, and many of these jurisdictions were RHD, especially India and Thailand, countries were Toyota has a very large presence. Toyota hasn’t really had its heart in the entry level market for at least two decades, leaving it to the Koreans, or more recently, Mazda. On the other hand, they compete like crazy in developing markets, mostly on platforms under 1.3 litres. The Yaris makes up like 90% of all the taxi cabs in Manila these days.
Don’t they have Daihatsu for the entry-level market? We used to get Sirions here in Australia until Toyota killed off the brand here and gave us this Yecccho instead.
YES the Taxi Cabs in Manila were becoming predominantly Toyota Vios covering Generations 1, 2 & 3. The Yaris Sedan Cabs which you were referring over there were the 2G Vios which were essentially the same as the 2007-11 Yaris Sedan here in the States and Canada.
The near-central round instrument pod on my Xb has grown on me; once one gets used to the central location, it’s just fine. It’s actually as close or closer to where the eyes tend to be anyway.
The way to think about cars like this is as a basic mode of transportation, i.e., as an appliance. I have no strong feeling towards my oven; I do not car a whit about its looks. The only thing which matters is whether it works or not. The same for this. In fact, I see cars like this as the perfect everyday vehicle; the money you save on purchase and fuel you can divert to the 2nd, interesting, car.
My friend had one after her 89 Camry bit the bullet she loved it, her husband totaled it.
They replaced it with a Yaris she said it was a great car on the interstate and she only goes under 85 if her son is in the car. Guess it wasn’t bad in her eyes but I never rode in the ugly little thing. So I don’t have a first hand opinion
I drive a 1990 Camry V6, similar to this one https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-asian/curbside-classic-review-1990-toyota-camry-le-v6-dripping-with-fat/. I love it. When (if) it goes I’ll try everything to get another clean 2nd gen Camry. Can’t imagine myself in another car, much less an Echo/Yaris 😀
Nothing wrong with the Echo/Yaris for those looking for a cheap runabout. Two of my housemates drive one. (first gen and second gen hatchbacks) Too bad the sedan and coupe are so ill-proportioned. A female friend of mine used to drive an automatic equipped sedan. I used to remark it was only good for converting gas into noise.
The curent Ford Fiesta sedan suffers from similar styling problems. I’m going to call it VW Jetta syndrome. I personally don’t understand why somebody would prefer a small car with a trunk over a hatchback.
The trunks provide pretty decent size storage away from prying eyes. I’m guessing they’d provide some additional protection from a rear-ender as well. If the difference between the hatch’s rear bumper and my backseat-riding child’s head is 15″ and the sedan is 30″, that additional space might matter.
The hatchback does have a lot more utility no doubt.
I will be trying to un-see the Echo while waiting for the CC on that nice Mazda pickup behind it.
Hate is a strong emotion to direct at a little nothing of an econobox. However, it is Toyota’s Hudson Jet: tall, ungainly, ill-conceived. Unlike Hudson, Toyota is such a strong company it wasn’t sunk by the Echo.
You want hate? Here’s some!
When the idiot at the Firestone store closed the hood on my Civic, he forgot to fold the prop rod. The result was a new hood, new prop rod, and a three day stay in the body shop, on Firestone’s dime, while I drove a rental Echo.
Really liked the engine. Smooth, relatively quiet and willing. That’s the end of the good. Besides the obvious wrong of the center mounted instruments, you know what you get with a high seating position, in a short, narrow, car, on Michigan’s roads? Pitching and rolling like never seen before. It was like riding in a carnival tilt-a-whirl as that Echo explored how far, and in how many dimensions, it could toss the occupant at any given moment.
That explains why larger and more comfortable cars are popular in Michigan, and it’s just easier to get wrong on tighter and smaller cars around metro Detroit areas.
Hate 2:
Japanese companies have relatively shorter history in different markets ( US for example ) and they are still very inexperienced. Honda put vinyl seats on some base Accord unfortunately, and I happen to move my roommate’s Accord today and got my butt burned because I didn’t know it’s vinyl until fully sitting in.
Vinyl seats on family cars was common in the ’70s on Detroit cars but I think after hours of summer highway trip, the childhood memory on vinyl seats is miserably fried ( it would be far worse if boys were wearing shorts, common for the period. I’m glad I didn’t wear it today ) And when those boys grow up, vinyl seats disappeared from mainstream Detroit cars except for special purposes ( police cars and commercial stripper pickups for toughness, or bottom runner Ford Tempo ) even fleet Taurus has cloth.
I am afraid those people in Ohio forgot to remind Honda of the vinyl seats ( or Honda didn’t listen ) and the burn really hurts the butt. I never thought it was vinyl than leather.
Mercedes uses lots of vinyl still. And I’m guessing some of the other German luxury brands do too.
Leatherette, I just can’t get over it. It does hurt when the car sits few hours in a summer day ( hurts more when didn’t expect it’s vinyl ) and it is even that bad for grey vinyl seats in Michigan. I can’t imagine how hot it would be for a sporty BMW ( when black=sporty ) in a slightly not so northern state and how badly it burns.
I prefer vinyl seats…not black though. Light charcoal grey.
Cost cutting at it’s finest.
I’d take vintage MBtex over Leather any day. It looks/feels exactly the same and is indestructible.
Leather is a pain in the ass, it cracks, it shrinks, it needs constant attention and the only cleaners/conditioners/protectants that actually work worth a damn are only available from specialty stores miles away or online. And yes, I have Leather seats 😛
I have leather seats and cloth seats on my cars, and I don’t like how they both crack or rip. Vinyl seats looks even better ( when comes with more colors with wild patterns like in the ’70s ) and I do hear about complains about how hot it gets. But I didn’t know it gets that hot until I had a seat myself, and that’s the hottest thing I sit on.
Vinyl is great for high-wear surfaces like armrests & headrests, whereas cloth is a dirt magnet hard to keep clean & especially bad around kids & pets. I do grant that cloth is tolerable on seats since people often wear shorts & it grips well.
But people love luxury, or the appearance thereof, & I fear vinyl will disappear.
I think it’s more common now but people just don’t realize their optional leather seats are really “leatherette” or “leather-trimmed”. I didn’t realize how common it was until I was looking at vans last year.
The difference feels in a summer day. Leather seats could be hot but I definitely won’t sit on vinyl seats in the same situation.
The Echo looks like the A,B and C pillars were taken from a Tercel and grafted onto a completely different car. Interior room is excellent.
I have an ION and the central gauges are not an issue. They are high up at eye level. No turning of head or taking eyes from the road to look down past the steering wheel.
Centrally mounted gauges have been around since the 20s and 30s. The ones in the ION work as intended. A lot of the comments I’ve read trashing them are from people who have never actually driven one.
If you are a car rag journalist hopping into and out of numerous cars, yes, they’d be a distraction. Daily use, no problem and I prefer the height and the fact that the gauges aren’t buried. It took more time getting used to the electronic power steering. The gauges I’d adjusted to within a few feet during the test drive. By the time we hit the dealership exit, they were second nature. The power steering seemed to not track so well on the freeway, like a 60’s full size Mercury, too light and not quite connected to the whole.
However, they’re just plain weird and of course cost Saturn and GM a lot of sales. For GM the Saturn customer was unfathomable, weird. So that’s what they cobbled together.
As for the Echo: room, reliability, fuel mileage there are a lot of positives. The looks aren’t one of them.
Today’s equivalent is the Versa sedan. Hideously ugly and definitely not geared toward the archetypal “enthusiast”, yet it provides a lot of room, good mileage, and decent reliability for the price.
That said, I had a rental Versa for a few days and while it was objectively the “worst” car I’ve driven in a while (except for the Jeep Compass), I found the simplicity of the thing almost endearing. I try to find something to like in every car, no matter how ugly or slow, and in this case it was the LACK of gimmicks.
+1
I dislike the Versa Sedan and I do like the Versa Hatch. To me it is the closest modern thing to the Renault 4 TL.
Say,
How about the Rambler American and the Plymouth wagon in the driveway behind the Toyota?
The Rambler:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1961-rambler-american-the-hip-un-american/
The Plymouth:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1955-plymouth-belvedere-suburban-suddenly-its-1956/
I’ve had a few as rentals, and while I wouldn’t buy one, they did the job and were roomy for their size and gave great gas mileage. My complaint with the Echo was its handling in crosswinds – it was a bit of a handful. I’ve driven other cars in its size range that handled much better. Otherwise, not a bad car, but better as a city driver. As for the Nissan Versa, I’ve also had a few as rentals, and I find them a roomy, smooth riding little car with great gas mileage and much better highway manners than an Echo.
People I’ve known that had/have them love these little guys. They aren’t ideal for interstate commutes but for around town they get the job done and are very easy to park.
That said, I think I’ve covered three or four fatal crashes involving them. That has steered me clear of ever wanting to drive or ride in one.
The Echo sedan looked dowdy, but the Echo hatch looked very zippy – sort of Peugeot-like. They sold very well in Soviet Canukistan, and I thought the blue ones looked especially good.
Incidentally, do you know why it was called Echo? To appeal to Gen X – the “Echo Boom” generation.
I agree that the sedan looked completely ridiculous while the hatch isn’t bad. Trouble is, the USA market didn’t get the Echo 3-door or 5-door, only the unfortunately be-trunked models. And then the mid-cycle facelift which gave it the silly “grin” seen on the feature car only made it worse.
On the long-running TV comedy “Psych” one of the main characters drives a blue Echo 5-door, looking very much like the one in that photo. It is named, appropriately, “the Blueberry”. It’s odd though that the show is set in California, yet one of the main vehicles is actually not available in this market. Took me a while to figure out what sort of Toyota it actually was! (The show is filmed in Canada, which sort of explains that.)
I’m just going to go ahead and say it. I don’t hate how the Echo looks. I actually find it nice-looking. Certainly better than the 4-door yaris we got at the same time (yes, they sold echo’s and yarii simultaneously over here. I don’t get it either.)
I am not a Toyota fan.
I do not understand the hate for the Echo. I do not see anything wrong with the way it looks.
Agreed! It is an inoffensive little car surely.. a means of getting from here to there in a totally boring and dull, economical, jerky, noisy, reliable and sort-of ‘safe’ way . . (yawnnn)
I remember when the Toyota Echo was introduced. I found the hatchback version less attractive than the 4 door sedan.
A strange one. That “eye of Cyclops” center mounted speedo was copied by the Saturn Ion. Why?
Cheapest IP configuration to accommodate RHD.
It’s pretty disconcerting when sitting in one of these or the Ion or Prius when all your greeted by is a large hunk of gray or black plastic instead of a speedometer.
Dunno about hate there are plenty of these around here in Platz Echo and Yaris flavours and not collecting moss on used car lots people drive them for someone who just wants to go from A to B and via X and Z on occasion the seem quite popular like most Toyotas you rarely see them being towed.
Is this size of cars in North America a “penalty box” by nature, or are they also available with all the goodies that bigger cars usually have ? Like leather / alcantara upholstery, climate control, a fully-loaded dash, everything electric, nice alloy rims, etc.etc.
At the time of the Echo, they definitely were penalty boxes. Now you can get them pretty well-appointed, but the most luxurious offerings from the Big 3 (and Toyota) are still in full-size trucks, SUVs, and crossovers.
I suppose it all depends on what you want. Luxury and some extra power in a small package or less luxury and a base engine in a bigger package. Both at the same price. It’s not unusual that car buyers, especially the younger ones, prefer the smaller model with more options and an engine with circa 120 hp.
Citroën was smart. They have the pretty simple C3 sub-compact hatchback and the high-end DS3 sub-compact. The latter is a Mini-competitor. So even within the same segment there’s a model diversity.
Interior of a DS3. Neat, and well done.
Other Mini-competitors are the Audi A1….
…and the Alfa Romeo MiTo.
It goes without saying but U.S. and Canada will finally have its own Toyota Yaris Sedan in 2016. Here in the U.S., it will be called the Scion iA while in Canada it might still be called Toyota Yaris Sedan. Even though the Toyota Tercel then Toyota Echo would have been its future predecessors, its content will not be Toyota sourced but it will be based on the newly designed Mazda 2 Sedan available elsewhere, but not in the U.S. The only Toyota identifications on this model would be the nameplate and perhaps the front and rear details but otherwise its 99.9% Mazda 2. For comparative purposes, I have put the photo of the 2016 Scion iA/”Toyota Yaris” 4 Door Sedan vs. the completely different but identical in size and 100% Toyota sourced 2015 3G Toyota Vios Sedan which is also called Yaris elsewhere except that its not available in the North American Markets but only in Southeast Asian Markets and possibly imported to certain South American Markets hence it kept the Yaris Sedan name on those countries.
The Mazda 2 may not be available in the US but the 3 and 6 are and those bodylines are very much identical to them in scaled up form. That has to be one of the most pathetic badge engineering jobs done in recent years. Reminds me of the NUMMI Nova, oh how the tables have turned.
The Mazda 2 is available in the U.S. but both Mazda and Toyota have agreed upon that the 5 Door Hatchback of the redesigned 2016 Mazda 2 will continue to be available. The 2016 Mazda 2 4 Door Sedan will not at least for U.S. and Canada as to prevent it from competing with the 2016 Scion iA/”Toyota Yaris” since the 5 Door Hatchback of the Mazda based Scion iA/”Toyota Yaris” will not be available as a Toyota product and the current Toyota produced Yaris 5 Door Hatchback will continue through the foreseeable future. YES indeed its pathetic badge engineering (much like the NUMMI Chevrolet Nova later Prizm and the Toyota Corolla) I have to agree since Toyota could have brought the Vios Sedan here and rename it as Yaris Sedan instead.
When these were new I thought they were the height of lameness, but now I kind of admire them. They’re really basic, practical cars, not completely horrible to drive, and their ugliness is endearing in a way – kind of like the Rambler American that likely belongs to the same owner. Considering that they were a completely disposable car and almost universally loathed in their day, it’s remarkable how common they sitll are.
Johannes – pretty much. They might have come with power windows or a sunroof as an option at some point, but that was it. And these were amongst the last cars that could be ordered with such basic equipment as well. Most new cars in this segment in the U.S. now have 90% of the same gizmos their big brothers come with. The one “luxury” seemingly every class of car in America has always had available was air conditioning, but even up until the ’90s it was rare to find power-anything in a subcompact.
In 2013, I took a long trip with two friends from Western PA to Quebec in my buddy’s 2003 Echo. I was kind of dreading the ride a bit, but I have to say it was a darn near perfect road trip vehicle. It took about 50 miles to get used to the weird center-mounted speedometer (also my experience with Yaris rental cars) and not having any cruise control, but once I did it was just fine. Quite spacious for all three of us, and I’m over 6’2″. Large windows, great visibility, handling was at least secure, and the fuel economy was excellent.
When they came out for the 2000 MY, I remember spending a lot of time staring at these on the dealer lots and in pictures trying to like the styling. It was exactly the type of car that appealed to me at the time: simple, fuel efficient, reliable, roomy, unpretentious. But I never could get past that weird styling!
The Yaris gen 1 and 2 were available as nearly-hot hatches.
Below the 2nd gen, the Toyota Yaris 1.8 16v VVT-i TS, 133 hp.
The TS-badge is on the grille, a silver T combined with a red S.
The Echo and Yaris are both underdesigned which is probably part of the fun to their buyers. My mother-in-law had both and I drove both — Echo and then Yaris. The Yaris was a much better driver, particularly on the highway. This basically meant that you didn’t feel your life was in quite as much danger in the Yaris.
Many folks criticize GM (and the other domestics) for many of their small cars (in North America), saying that they doesn’t understand the customer or that these small cars are cynical attempts at getting potential customers to buy the next size car. However, I would counter that (possibly outside of Honda), the Japanese carmakers have a similar issue.
When I think of less than spectacular small cars, I pretty much include every Tercel, Echo and Yaris that I’ve encountered. And there are similar feeling about many small Nissans, Mazdas and Mitsubishis, too. To be honest, I think that Honda has caught up (down?) to this trend, witness the latest CR-Z or the 2nd gen Impulse.
Simply put, these cars are taken from other markets to fill a product portfolio need, sometimes with minimal adaptation to the target market. It’s as cynical as any other carmaker with a global portfolio of machines to choose from. With companies as prosperous as a Toyota, one would think that they could easily afford to adapt or even create a car especially for the North American market, in almost every segment.
Instead, the capital has been spent on luxury cars, pickup trucks and SUV/CUVs. And I’m not talking about GM here. It’s not just GM or the domestics that are cynical about their small cars.
No, not a fan. But I do understand why someone would want one.
I think the lack of sales had as much to do with their pricing and position in the lineup as the weird styling. It’s the same problem the Yaris is facing today – they are just not that much cheaper than a Corolla, and Corollas are much nicer cars to be in (in terms of smoothness/quietness, ride quality, styling). A base stick-shift Corolla was within $1000-$2000 of these and dealers just didn’t stock many because most people wanting a cheap, thrifty Toyota were better off with the Corolla.
For every 10 Corollas on a Toyota dealer’s lot there’s usually about one Echo/Yaris. When my dad was buying his Camry in 2010, I distinctly remember there were about 30 Corollas but only 4 Yaris’ on the lot. The tiny row of Yaris’ were hidden in back and the impression I got from the salespeople and dealership as a whole was that they only suggested them to people who absolutely couldn’t afford anything more or had bad credit. The model is almost like an afterthought in the Toyota line-up so that they “technically” have something to sell in the B-segment. These make better used cars than new cars, because they depreciate a lot more quickly than Corollas.
How about my POV as a Toyota owner and fan? Here you go.
I love Toyotas mostly for their famous reliability and longevity and conservative looks. Aesthetics takes a backseat, though it’s not unimportant*. I find the Echo to be cute and tiny; in the end too small. It would be good for a daily short commuter and altogether wrong for even moderate cargo and long trips. Ditto for the smaller Yaris, and the longer Yaris makes no sense as it’s an almost-Corolla, so why not spring for a proper Corolla? Now that you mention it the Echo rear end looks a little obtuse, but I really wouldn’t have cared had this article not come up. If I had to guess I might say Toyota misjudged the tiny car market, and it’s not really looks. I like tiny cars but I don’t think I am a typical American driver.
My Corolla is just right- a compromise car. It’s never the perfect car, but if you need just one, it fits the bill. A Yaris or Echo might be good for short trips and one driver, but on longer trips it’s too small. The Camry is much larger and would do me well every day and on long trips with moderate cargo, but day-to-day it’s really too big, and empty for one guy. The Corolla is right in between and fits both roles well but not perfectly. Of course I haven’t touched on other categories (SUVs, trucks).
*What a fat-ended monstrosity the Camry Solara is! It’s like a caricature of a Camry.
B-segment cars like the Yaris seem to be really a niche market for North America. Pay a bit more and you can step up to a Corolla, Civic or Focus. Unless exterior dimensions are really at a premium – for example, trying to park in San Francisco, it may make more sense to go to the compact car segment or C-class here.
Now in markets such as Europe or Asia, where there may be taxes levied by vehicle size/engine displacement, and where parking is more at a premium – these cars are much more mainstream. Saw lots of VW Polos, Renault Clios, Ford Fiestas, Minis in the streets of Paris.
On this front view photo montage compilations which I have constructed about three years ago, this is the Toyota Tercel/Soluna/Echo/Vios/Etios/Yaris Family Tree – from 1979 through current. I even included the 1G Toyota Prius Hybrid 4 Door Sedan as well because its exterior size and design were similar to the Echo Sedan.
This is another view but lengthwise covering from 1991 Toyota Tercel through the current Toyota Vios.
A few grey market Echo Hatchbacks have snuck over the border into New York and I do not know how their owners got them registered in this country.
Underneath the Echo lies a very cleverly packaged, very effective light car, a move along new trails first blazed by Mercedes-Benz with its new A-class.
Love everything about the Echo sedan, including the styling…and styling is a subjective matter anyway.