All this talk about Peugeot returning to the US, and telling us that there are still some 1500 registered reminded me that I shot this fine 505 wagon just a couple of months ago. And I can confirm that it’s a daily driver, as I know the driver. And it’s not the first 505 wagon of his I’ve shot and written up. He’s going to keep driving these as long as he can.
I shot his previous one back in 2011, and it’s featured in my CC on the 505 wagon. That one was an ’89.
According to Carfax, this one is an ’85, the last year for the legendary XN gasoline four, in 1971cc form. This hemi-head engine’s roots go back to the 203, the first post-war Peugeot, and is essentially the same engine as used in the 404 and 504. After 1985, it was replaced by the 2.2 L “Douvrin” SOHC four, and the turbo versions used yet another totally different engine, the Simca 180 (9NT) engine, as apparently it was more amenable to being pressurized.
This one has the manual transmission; a good call, as these were decidedly modestly powered, at least by US standards. The XN was a fairly smooth running engine and tough, but even with fuel injection it had all of 97 hp and these were pretty big wagons.
The owner of this one is a carpenter/handyman, so he uses it exactly how wagons like this were typically used in Europe back in the day: as professional work vehicles that could also haul the wife and kids on the weekends. Which is why wagons had such a negative prestige image in Europe for such a long time. Nobody would touch a wagon unless they were a plumber, electrician or such. It wasn’t until tradesmen could afford a dedicated van and a sedan for the family that the wagon finally transitioned into a cool lifestyle vehicle for the mobile up-and-coming set, starting with wagons like the Audi Avant. And quickly sedans came to be seen as having a low prestige factor, driven mainly by retired folks.
I love these Peugeot wagons. They were designed from the ground up to haul heavy loads with their extended wheelbase and unique multi-coil spring solid rear axle. Nobody could make a wagon that could haul over 1400lbs of cargo safely yet have such a superb ride even when empty. The 505 is the last of a line of the world’s greatest wagons. I should have been driving one of these the past 25 years here in Eugene. Or several, like this guy. Why didn’t I?
My love song to the 505 wagon is here, and to all the Peugeot RWD wagons is here.
In all of my years I have known exactly *one* person during the time he owned a Peugeot. He was a young married immigrant from one of the African countries and he lived next door to us in a complex of student apartments in 1983-85.
He was a huge fan of his Peugeot, which was a fairly late model 505 sedan. It got stolen a couple of times by a former babysitter who had copied the key and after the second time he refused to take it back and bought another. I always found them attractive cars.
Reading about those 1,500 US-registered Peugeots got me thinking about some of the 505s that live around here. There’s two that live near me (both sedans) — I drove by one of them yesterday, but the car was parked in the rear of its house, so too far away to photograph. If I should catch it on the street, I now have an added incentive to take pictures.
I love 505s, particularly the interiors for some reason, but there’s probably no car (short of a Citroen) that would scare me more as far as actually buying one.
A former co-worker’s wife had a similar wagon. He also ordered microfilm reel of a parts catalog for it. [This was before CD or online versions].
There was a Peugeot dealer in Aurora IL until 1993, and I think that’s where he got parts.
I rode in a Peugeot 505 exactly once. I had a summer job as a welders helper at a fabrication shop. They had two locations, one near my parents home and a bigger shop down in the industrial section of the city.
One day I wound up working at the main shop in the afternoon, with my car and wallet back at the other shop. At the end of the day I asked the company owner for a ride back, since I knew he lived that way. He was a Yugoslavian guy with a 505 sedan.
He dismissively told me to take the bus. His wife took pity on me and put me in the back of their car, the owner did not acknowledge my presence on the trip over. 🙂
Good times!
There’s a fellow named Brian Holm who runs an online US Peugeot parts supply at PeugeotHolm.com. I used him as an invaluable resource when I wrote about Peugeot Diesel wagons for my post.
His website says he has around 15 running cars for sale at any given moment. If you want a Peugeot or parts, he’s the man. Yes, this is a shameless plug because he was so helpful to me.
What are his thought’s on Peugeot’s return to the U.S.?
I’m sure by now, this Peugeot 505 is no longer on the road due to rust ( and the other automobile is no longer on the road due to rust too, as it was mine ) but I’m glad I captured the photo years ago.
I spotted another 505 wagon in pristine condition last year during cruise (but it wasn’t a part of cruise, the owner just happened to drive it to see the cruise) and these days, Peugeot 505 is almost strictly summer car or garage queen in midwest. But too bad my phone screen was shattered and it’s under repair so I can’t post that picture right now, maybe another day.
If Groupe PSA is going to have an engineering center in North America, I would like to work there. Should be less suppressive than German companies I suppose. But maybe before that happens, I will still work a redundant job somewhere else.
orangechallenger:
What’s this BS about rust? I have an 87 Liberte Wagon (ZF 4hp slushbox)….the car has zero rust and it’s spent it’s whole life in and around salted roads here in the Northwest in addition to being used as a delivery vehicle for 20 years (ferry rides in the Puget Sound). Then again….salt/minerals was never allowed to stay on the bodyshell or any components (many trips to the car wash).
It’s had a rough life as a workhorse (approaching 1/2 million miles)….but it goes and goes and does what you ask of it. Thank whoever for rockauto,etc. for inexpensive wear/replacement parts….problematic German and French components guaranteed to fail were substituted with Big 3 and Japanese ones years ago.
Peugeot will fail miserably when they return…they have a reputation of not backing-up their products(extant),American consumers won’t put up with it again. Just look at Fiat…complete disaster returning to the US Market…poor Support and products with questionable build issues.
Great looking wagons. I’d love to have one as a plush yet hard working all around hauler.
Ah, my favourite of the 505’s, albeit only if returned to intended elegance by ridding itself of those US bumper-shelfs and having it’s full eyes reinstated. On the Series 2 update, they lowered the springs somewhat and made the bumpers full wraparound jobbies (and ofcourse, in the US, that unspeakable skirting-board surround kit as in the white car above). They painted black trim here and there in the usual rather silly attempt to to dress the mutton as lamb, and the whole ensemble looked something like a fine old Chanel dress topped and muffled by a yellow Kmart parka. This earlier one, apart from having Pininfarina’s subtly clever elegance visible, also has a far nicer dash, low set, and, well, again, elegant. A bit Froggy-wacky in operation, but far advanced in appearance from the really ugly block of creaks in the Series 2 that wasn’t any more functional anyway. More oddly, it seems Paul Bracq designed both. Must have our Mr Andreina to get his friend to explain himself.
The old XN engine really did have asthma by the unleaded US injection version here. Aus got it too about ’86, most fitted with a 3-speed auto. (Not quick, that, circa 18 secs to 60mph). The XN is an engine rightly praised for durability and ok smoothness in smaller forms, but by the 1.9 here, it was pretty rough old grumbler. It’d rev to over 6k, but under 5k was enough for anyone with functioning ears. Which extended 0-60mph into unlikelihood, often.
All power to the owner for being one of the 1500, but one also must assume this builder is not one one calls for a job needed at the double.
I think the Citroen CX wagon had slightly more cargo capacity (1,600 lbs, if I’m reading the specs right). I’ve never driven a 505, but I think the CX’s ride is pretty darn superb. Now, if you want a wagon to carry a load, ride well… and actually get you to your destination, then the 505 would get my vote.
No, the 505 gave a more balanced feel thanks to the RWD, the CX Turbo Diesel break was more of a landyacht, they rolled like hell, it needed cargo to drive smoothly.
The turbo diesel was very fast in its day, but the Peugeot was the better package for me.
Back around 1988 in Toronto, my boss a Greek fellow had a Peugeot sedan. I used to tease him that my wife and I also owned Peugeots. We still have them today. My wifes is blue and mine is red. They are 10 speed bicycles that we purchased new.
I had a 505 diesel wagon as my daily driver for a couple of years, up until last year. I was looking for a w123 diesel wagon and found the Pug for sale on CL. After driving it, I was sold. It just felt solid, handled and rode extremely well, getting 30 mpg. I miss it, but when my commute changed, I had to let it go. If parts availability was not an issue, I would have kept much, much, longer.
When I was a kid there was a regular at the YMCA we went to who drove a 505 sedan. This was in the 1980s when you could still buy a new Peugeot in the US, but even then it was unusual enough to stand out.
The last time I saw a Pug on the road in the US was some time last year, a rather weathered looking 505 sedan. Before that sighting it had been probably over a decade since the last time I saw one here.
It is nice to see photos of one of these plucky cars still on the road over 30 years later. Thank you for the writeup.
I believe the XN6 engine was standard through the 1986 model year on US-market 505s. The 2.2 arrived for 1987, and was standard in all non-turbo 4-cylinder 505 models, except for one: for some reason, the 1987 505 Liberté (which was a special edition meant to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Statue of Liberty) still came standard with the 2.0 XN6 engine. I have no idea why; it seems rather bizarre, but an interesting Peugeot factoid nonetheless.
Elsewhere, from ’79 the Pug could be had with a carby 2.0litre Dourvin OHC four, then 2.2 injection, then 2.2 Efi. It seems they couldn’t be bothered making that engine run on unleaded fuel till ’87, remembering lots of Europe still used leaded into the ’90’s, and England (and Germany?) had no pollution controls either till the same time. Incredible, really.
The power drop when it went clean was considerable. This very tough motor never felt as refined as an alloy OHC four should, and unleaded, it gave barely better performance than a leaded carby XN. Made the Gti badge look lost.
One of my carpool rides to work long ago was in an early 505 sedan, gold with tan velour inside. I paid little attention to this car apart from skimming through the car mag reviews of it, and it didn’t leave an impression until I actually go to ride in one several times. Two things I remember – one of course being the big, soft, comfortable seats and fairly smooth ride (though still not in the ballpark with my uncle’s DS23 wagon). The other was a curious early to mid ’80s affectation – bronze tinted glass that in this case matched the interior and exterior colors perfectly. The ’85 Maxima and ’86 Mazda 626 (GT only) also had bronze glass before reverting to the usual grey tint in the next generation. The Toyota minivans had it if you got it with the brown interior.
Probably others did too, but does anyone still?
The Lexus RX300 had bronze glass, I believe. I’m not sure about any current vehicles.
I forgot about the ’80’s hotel-foyer window gold tint! Very distinct, as was the scratchy hessian-smelling woolly seats in lots of them, but I thought that combined look was most haute chic in ’81. (Well, I was 12, and used to no tint and best GM vinyl). When I later owned them, that glass gave me the irits as it seemed to scratch easily against the window sills if any dirt was about.
Weirdly, and much more recently, I had an ’04 Renault Scenic, which, of all the glass in the car, featured a bronzy windscreen, very visible outside, not so inside. No idea why, and all paint/interior colours got it. It meant e-tags had only a very small and specific area near the mirror in which they worked, and it also meant a replacement screen was worth a good deal more than the car after about 10 years.
There’s still a few of these running around in VT. There was an active dealer in Burlington back in the day and up until recently he was still hill-climbing in a 405 turbo, but think he wrote it off on a tree. There were 2 gray 505 wagons for sale at a garage last year, they didn’t sell (surprise!) and last I knew they were still parked out back. About 10 years ago when living there, missing my old 504 diesel wagon we saw a 505 diesel wagon for sale and almost bought it, now kind of wish I had!
Actually it was Brian Holm who had the car I was interested in, he’s in VT in the country about an hour from where we lived. He’s got to be well into his 80s by now I’d think. Very nice fellow, has, or at least had, a field full of parts cars. The diesel wagon he had that we were interested in was rust free, had only around 100k mi and was dark gray metallic with a gorgeous blue velour interior, for $2500. I’ve never sat on better seats, even though we had Volvos and SAABs for years (and still have one of those).
Always liked these and nearly bought one in 1985; I was impressed by the space, handling, and general comfort, though certainly not by the anemic acceleration. Ended up choosing a Volvo 245… not as roomy, quicker but still pokey, but I just felt better about the odds of it being a more reliable car. After ten years and about 140,000 miles with little trouble it sold on the first day we advertised it for more than we asked. But I still liked that 505!
I was lucky enough to own a 505 STI sedan. It was black with the brown leather interior. I brought of from my boss at the time, who had it on lease. He sold it to me for what the lease buy out was.
The car had very little mileage and was an excellent driving car. It handles well and hot pretty good gas mileage.
It had plenty of quirkiness built in. The horn was a push lever on the steering wheel, and where the horn should of been was a little secret compartment for storing small items (well it really wasn’t but since you were able to lift the hub cover off, I figured why not)’
My car featured power windows, which were controlled by switches on the console. The door panels had these round plastic plugs covering the holes where the window cranks should of been.
The power door locks sounded like a shot gun being fired!
The HVAC controls had these weird hieroglyphics and were back lit in a red/orange color.
I could go on and on, but I really did like the car and enjoyed it for many yeara
This Pug showed up at the Orphan show in Ypsilanti in 2017. Has some rust, so must have worked for it’s living at one time.
Quite handsome, especially for a French car. I remember how the car journos were crying a river in the 80s about “they took the French out” of Pugs and Renaults, but I quite liked the French products of that era.
Peugeot had a chance to expand it’s footprint in the US in the late 70s. There had been secret negotiations and AMC rented a banquet room in Chicago for a big, big, announcement. The word spread around AMC HQ that it was a done deal. Jerry Meyers arrived to the room packed with panting journos, and delivered, in the words of one journo, “a nothing burger”, a routine update on the existing AMC product line.
As AMC had spent effectively all it’s money on the Pacer and Matador coupe, Meyers was looking for someone he could get technology from to build new models in Kenosha.
Peugeot was only interested in getting it’s French built cars into the AMC showrooms.
Renault got wind of Peugeot’s activity, and what AMC wanted, and made a proposal to AMC giving AMC what Meyers wanted, which materialized as the Alliance.
Imagine if AMC had hooked up with Peugeot instead, and it was Pugs that the AMC dealer wrench spinners got their hands on. Bet PSA’s recent brand recognition survey would have produced different results.
AMC previously had a relationship with Renault back in the 1960s. Renault sold a version of the Rambler Classic from 1962 through 1966 and the Rambler Rebel in 1967 as the “Renault Rambler”. I believe they were shipped as Knock-Down-Kits and assembled in France, or maybe Belgium.
I’ve been reading where Peugeot is planning a return to the U.S. market. They have a handsome, but small, 508 wagon that seems to be similarly sized to an Audi A4 Allroad, Subaru Outback or Buick Regal Sport Wagon. There are also several Crossovers. It will be interesting to see if they can mount a successful comeback.
One of the best features of the Pug 504/505 series was their supremely comfortable front individual (can’t really call them “bucket”) seats.
Dirt cheap in junk yards; I have transplanted these seats into a couple of Japanese pick up trucks; improving the truck’s ride quality immensely.
I admire your enthusiasm for Peugeots!
Where did you find out there are 1500 registered in the US?
THAT is a fascinating little fact.
I wish I could find out how many 83-88 VW GTIs there are
In the late spring of 1984, the 1985 505 Turbo arrived. The engine was similar to the one seen in Europe, albeit without an intercooler initially. Max power for 1985 was 142 hp (106 kW).
This must be Barry’s, in Eugene? I helped him get that puppy back on the road last winter!