As the days grow cooler and the nights grow cold, ones thoughts sometimes turn introspective. This evening I found myself scanning through older photos and I came across these two that I snapped at last summer’s St. Louis meetup at Country Classic Cars in Staunton, IL. As we were there and perusing their inventory a new shipment was being dropped off. We stood there and watched as they marked prices on the vehicles and wheeled them onto the forecourt, absolutely zero time was wasted before they were available to the public. Somehow this little beauty in Mandalay Red caught my eye and I gazed at it appreciatively, looked at everything, but didn’t really know anything about it. The others didn’t seem at all interested in it and so we soon wandered off as a group as there was plenty more to see.
A couple of days later as my flight home was cancelled, I ended up renting a Corolla to drive back instead and thought back to the little Pontiac. And then once back home, I looked into the car further and was surprised that it was a hot little number indeed, sort of a future BMW of Pontiacs at the time. While it had a 4-cylinder engine, it was a firecracker, churning out plenty of power (with various outputs of between 110 and 166hp available depending on configuration along with loads of torque.)
In addition, with a rear transaxle borrowed from the Corvair it was considered very well balanced with a perfect 50/50 weight distribution as well as being available with a 4-speed manual (although the one for sale was an automatic), independent suspension, and a light, compact yet fairly spacious unibody (yes, not body on frame). In short, this as a package was precisely what American cars were not supposed to be able to be.
GM didn’t let it live long enough to sort out the issues that it had, the biggest of which at the time was the “flexible” driveshaft inside a torque tube. The rear swing arm suspension was probably the other main point of contention along with the fact that it was a fairly big four (3.2liters worth), resulting in good power and excellent torque but perhaps more vibration than optimal; balance shafts would have helped a lot. Other makers such as Porsche figured out the torque tube issues later (and falsely claimed it as their own invention), GM could have done the same.
Paul wrote an excellent full CC on the Tempest here and it goes much deeper into everything. As for me, I just really liked the little red car with the black top and interior. It wasn’t perfect, there was a small bodywork issue at one corner which was probably the biggest thing stopping me from probing it deeper at the time, but this is the car that I still think about on that trip. Sure, the blue Ford wagon that we’ve all talked about a lot (and somehow forgot to take any pictures of) was wonderful too, but this one I could see the whole family really enjoying. There also is something about that shade of (off-)red that just worked for me on that particular car on that day. And the brochure car in the picture above even has Colorado plates! Perhaps this is really the one that got away…
Very nice find! I’ve actually never thoroughly gazed at a Tempest of this generation… it is indeed a very good looking car!
My first car was a 62 tempest lamans light blue over white with bucket seats blue interior.The posi-trac made for a real blast on the many black top and gravel roads of South Central Mo. Loved the looks I got from the 4cylinder\4bbl Rochester. I’d love to have it back. I doubt I’d have the fun@ 67 I did at 15-16.
Very nice, but you should hold out for the 4-speed.
There’s gotta be one out there somewhere..
Depending on the price, this could have been a sweet ride. While my preference is for the ’61, any of the Pontiac rope-drives are intriguing cars, but especially the convertibles. That big, 3.2L ‘haybailer’ four might be a bit much for DD duty, but for weekend car shows, I can’t think of anything that might get more attention (at least from the cognoscenti).
In fact, all of the ‘senior compacts’ were part of the zenith of what many consider the greatest period in GM history. While they might have been derivatives of the Corvair underneath, they still had really true engineering diffentiation. It’s ironic to compare them with the recent CC on the J-body which, except for the front ends, were virtually identical across all divisions.
I just can’t get excited about a 3.2 liter straight four with no balance shafts. I’ve never driven one, but do have extensive experience with the smaller Lima four.-
If 2,300 cc’s feel like an out of balance washing machine, 3,200 cubic centimeters must feel like a paint shaker.
“a fairly big four (3.2liters worth)”
Good grief, JK – I would hate to see what you describe as a “really big” four.
Sorry, I cannot share your enthusiasm. Estes and DeLorean tried to make a European road car out of parts, but had all the wrong parts. A monster four and a 2 speed automatic sounds like my idea of torture, whether the top drops or not. In 63 they finally got a V8 but if you wanted to shift for yourself you had to make do with a 3 speed, as the 4 speed wasn’t offered with the V8.
Every one of those Y cars came maddeningly close to competence. There was not one really desirable engine (before the Pontiac 326 got squeezed in) or automatic transmission in the bunch. Purely based on looks I find it hard to pass the Oldsmobile F-85.
One bit of trivia, if that is the same metallic red that was used on the F-85 in 1961-62, that *exact* paint formula became Avanti Red over in South Bend. It was a fetching color whether on a Studebaker or on a GM Y body car.
When you think about it, the Trophy 4 Tempest was kind of like a forerunner of the Fiero. Frankly, though, I find the Tempest more interesting.
With an Iron Duke And A Quarter. Or should that have been a Buick? 🙂
Well, the Monster of Turin had a very, very large 4. The Fiat S76 had a 4-cylinder engine with a displacement of 28,353 cm, or 1,730.2 cubic inches.
Of course, it was from 1910, when people didn’t seem to care as much.
There’s always a bigger engine out there, gotta leave some room for the verbiage…😀
I don’t remember the color as being a metallic, if it was it was VERY fine, more like a pearl. But the color according to the interchange charts was used by a lot of GM divisions, including on the first gen Corvette but named something else.
When I think back, the 63 Tempest with the 326 and a 3 sp had to be a pretty peppy rig, no?
The ’63 326/3-speed Tempest leads to one of those great ‘what ifs’ that has been brought up on CC. The ‘what if’ Chrysler had not downsized the 1962 model line and stuffed in the 413, which has been speculated directly led to Delorean dropping the 389 into the 1964 Tempest to create the GTO.
IOW, without the ’62 413 Mopar, there might not have been a GTO, leaving the 326 Tempest as the hot model from Pontiac. It’s certainly the direction GM corporate thought Pontiac was going.
> There was not one really desirable engine (before the Pontiac 326 got squeezed in)
What was wrong with the Buick aluminum 215 V8 that was an option in the Tempest the first few years (except that not enough people ordered it)?
I maintain that the 215 was a bad engine. It was not until it got over to Britain that it was developed enough to have a decent service life. Or is it unkind to wonder if it was a good engine there only in comparison to what had been the norm over there?
Here in the US they were not long-lived and were plagued by overheating. Even the size was a problem over here. Ford introduced a 221 and it was of good quality without the issues the 215 had. How long did it last? Just a couple of years before being bumped to 260 and then 289 cid.
The first tempest would’ve been quite the car with the OHC six and a 4 speed. A normal driveshaft would’ve been nice too.
I can’t help but remember Marisa Tomei’s Academy award-winning performance in “My Cousin Vinny” every time I see a Gen1 Tempest. This is perhaps one of the clearest descriptions of the rear suspension out there. That alone might be enough to seal the deal!
Memorable scene in an otherwise OK movie.
This. Except in metallic mint green paint, and with Michelin “75R14” tires.
Thank you.
Consider this idea: Had GM retained the ’63 Lemans V8 four door platform, developed it further with fuel injection, disk brakes, rack and pinion steering, a more robust transaxle, significantly upgraded the build quality, trim and finishing then restyled it properly…it could have become the ’65 Cadillac Seville! A real competitor for M-B and BMW ten years earlier!
Any idea what it sold for?
The asking price five minutes after it rolled off the truck was $8950 if I remember it correctly. No higher. I’m not sure what it sold for but the price doesn’t seem terribly unreasonable at first glance, a quick search shows prices all over the place really.
On all three of the Y-bodies, I preferred the cleaner styling of the 1963 models, which lasted for only that one year. But I really wouldn’t say “No” to this Tempest.
Our next door neighbor in Iowa City, Helene Scriabin, a professor of Russian at the university and a survivor of the siege on Stalingrad, had one just like this, in white. A convertible too. She was a flamboyant woman, yet practical, so it suited her well. I rode in it a couple of times. The big four was noticeable, but not really objectionable. Cute little car.
I knew these were somehow related to the Corvair even then as a kid, because of the interior dimensions, seats, etc.. Some folks we know a few blocks away had a ’63 Corvair Monza Spyder convertible, and that called to e much more tan the Tempest.
That really is a gorgeous shade of red. I agree, Jim.
When the teenager driver lost control as the swing-arm equipped 62 Tempest reversed ends, we hit the drainage ditch, flipped the car and went 165 ft on the roof. That was more exciting than the complete collapse of both front ball joints of a second 62 Tempest a year later in college. Regrets? You came to your senses just in time!
Our neighbors bought a new Tempest of this generation, but a rather dull white, and a station wagon at that. It surprised 6 year old me by having a floor shift (manual) which was unusual in a domestic non-performance car in that era of three on the tree. And in other ways it seemed pretty fresh and modern compared to their prior car, a 1953-ish Ford wagon. And far more modern than the next new car in our neighborhood, a 1963 Volvo 544.
A Saginaw four-speed version of this car with the ’65+ Corvair IRS would have been killer.
When I was in my teens (in the ’70’s), my dad had a ’62 Tempest station wagon with the 4-cylinder engine. It had a 3-speed stick.
He liked the car so much that he pulled the engine and rebuilt it. He even had it repainted in a nice gray metallic (it was white when he got it).
I could have cared less about it at the time, as my dream cars had V-8s and RWL tires and 4-speeds and glass packs and all of that…
And now? I’d love to have another one! This convertible is even more attractive.
This reminds me of Arnie “The Farmer” Beswick’s 1963 Tempest station wagon drag car, affectionately known as “Mrs. B’s Grocery Getter”. It was just all kinds of cool.
Saw this at a car show in Wamego KS a few years back. A GTO shooting brake.
Another shot more shots at cohort.
Definitely would have made for a good weekend cruiser.
What caught my eye in the back ground is the Crown Victoria LX Sport.
VanillaDude joined us that day, and I believe that LX Sport was his steed. I am a fan as well.
I rode in one of these back then. The ropey driveshaft had a sag to it, kept in line with some bearings, which seems like a big extra cost for an inch or two dip in the middle. Since the driveshaft went to the rear transaxle instead of the typical live axle a normal driveshaft would already need a lower tunnel anyway. I don’t think any car has used anything like this before or since.
One reason for the rear transaxle might have been the weight of that half a big 1950’s V8 in front.
The one I rode in was a base model, and a base model back then was really base. Maybe even less sound proofing than better models, and certainly an interior that would be shocking in its Trabant level look today.
To make matters worse it was painted the worst car color ever, nonmetallic beige. There used to be a lot of cars around in that sort of color. I always wondered what the owners were thinking.
Anyway, it was pretty new and I remember the engine noise and vibration and the driveshaft bearings already very noticeably whining.
The GM threesome were all spiffy looking little cars until the awkward rebody facelift which made them bigger, but with no more room inside since the basic structure was the same. They all looked like they belonged with the full sized versions. The Skylark model of the Buick version with different tail lights, bucket seats etc. was I think the best.
The Corvair and these, unlike the Ford Falcon for example, were really low. So fewer cubic feet of room on the inside, but would feel like driving a sports car compared to a Falcon or a much taller typical sedan today.
Rope-drive might have been necessitated by keeping the Corvair floor pan more intact than on the Olds or Buick versions. Likewise, it might also explain using the Corvair’s transaxle in the back.
Originally, the Pontiac Polaris concept retained the Corvair’s drivetrain but, supposedly due to the handling characteristics, Delorean decided to go with a front engine configuration using that big-ass Trophy 4. Ironically, the Tempest retained the Corvair’s less than great rear swing axle suspension but I guess Delorean must have figured that the Corvair’s rear engine weight bias was the main culprit of the Corvair’s handling woes.
The whole thing was a kind of Rube Goldberg setup and it isn’t too surprising that it didn’t really work out.
From some previous writing about the Tempest, I remember an interesting aspect, regarding the car’s creative mixture of GM components.
The torque tube, joining the engine firmly to the transaxle, was an essential element for NVH purposes. It was the very soft engine mounts, which this layout allowed, that reduced the vibration transmitted into the car, from the ‘hay baler’ 3.2, to (almost) tolerable levels.
I have a hazy memory that the rope driveshaft also had a role in NVH reduction, but not the specific way in which it did so.