It’s already been three weeks since we were graced with a repeat visit from Vic Ceicis (Geelongvic here at CC) in his Porsche 914 that he had driven out to British Columbia for the Spring Thaw Rally. That all went well, and he was now on his way south to Las Vegas before returning to Ohio. A mighty long trip for the 914; two years ago he had shipped it out.
As is the custom at Gasthaus Niedermeyer, we went for a brisk urban hike after lunch, and our destination (as so often is the case) was the summit of Skinner Butte to take in the view of the city below. And there’s inevitably a CC there to shoot too. We weren’t disappointed; a nice survivor K-Car New Yorker. Let’s check it out before we get to Vic’s 914 tale of woe.
This is my favorite shot of these cars: a TURBO badge and fake wire wheel covers. This New Yorker is suffering from cognitive dissonance. Unlike the lag-free modern turbo engines with big, fat torque curves (mesas, actually), these were not quite so linear in their power delivery.
No such confusion is apparent on the inside: it’s 100% broughamtastic. The casket door handle is the icing on the cake.
There were a few other cars worth shooting, like the gen2 prelude right behind the New Yorker, but we gave it a rest.
And instead enjoyed the view of the not-so-big city spreading out before us. Vic ended up staying the night, but not before we had a delightful dinner out and even more delightful conversation.
I didn’t take any pictures of the 914 this year, but this picture is from two years ago, when Vic also dropped by after having just completed the same event. There were some significant improvements on the car this year, most of all an air conditioning system, very nicely done. Two years ago Vic hit 115 degree heat in the desert on the way back, so this time he was prepared. But of course there’s always other things that can go wrong. About three days after he left, headed for central Oregon and then a similar drive we made this winter down the western side of Nevada, I got this email:
Life has its little, or sometimes big, surprises, and so it has been with the recent 914 western Adventure.
After leaving Eugene, Oregon, all seemed well on the way to Bend and further south in the hot dry high desert of Oregon extending into Nevada. On lonely rarely traveled route 140 heading towards the Oregon Nevada border, the heart of the 914, its engine began to show signs of engine oil overheating followed by a cacophony of noise caused by a loosened metal engine cooling shroud banging against the engine’s cooling fan. Road vibrations had caused many screws to have loosened and to have backed out resulting in the loosened shroud, and restricted engine cooling. Not good, but badness, not immediately fixable on the road. The shroud was moved away and wedged away from the fan inlet. But the damage was already done, it turned out.
I made it to I80 and limped my way with the wounded 914 to an unplanned side trip to Reno, NV, where the Porsche dealership had Saturday service hours until 7:00pm, and I arrived at 5:00pm, seemingly salvation. Unfortunately the 914 was older than any of the service techs, and none there knew how to service a 914. The reality, a false salvation. However I was told to go the an independent Porsche shop called Reno Rennsport. So I used my time in Reno visiting the late Bill Harrah’s fabulous auto museum on Sunday, and then went to Rennsport when it opened on Monday morning resulting in successful remounting of the shroud.
Back on the road again, Ah, per Willie Nelson, the ‘14 and I made it about 200 miles before unexpectedly high engine overheating re-occurred during the long desert road incline to the old desert mining town of Tonapah NV at 6000+ feet. Not good, worrying badness. I cooled down the ‘14 like an overheated horse, and then stayed the night at the old Mizpah hotel.
There was no ghost sighting during my night at the hotel where ghost wandering and sightings were said to be common.
The next day I started with a cool, but now wounded engine, passing through the nearly extinct desert mining town of Goldfield, passed near the “hidden secret” Area 51, while limping to the “sin city”, Las Vegas where I was greeted by my old friend, Steve. The next day I spent almost all my time working under the car during Las Vegas 105F heat. The cause of the continued overheating remained a mystery after checking out the entire cooling system and confirming working oil coolers.
On LV day 2, the ‘14 went to the independent local Porsche doctor, “Carl’s Place”. A failed leak down test pointed to and suggested a cylinder #4 failed intake valve, no power from #4, Oh no!!. Could it be repaired in 3 days to continue to Colorado for the Silver Summit Rally? Not really, not a real chance. So what to do?
So after much discussion with the lads at Carl’s Place in LV, and the boys at Steinel’s Autowerks in Cleveland, and then after along discussion with the Master himself, Eric Steinel, it was decided to be prudent, to ship the ‘14 home by enclosed truck transport to CLE. The faithful old girl deserved this.
The 45 year old 914 did about 6700 miles during her part of the western trip. A real champ, I must say, deserving a rebuild at home without risking more damage in the mountains of Colorado.
Such is life with a classic. But the 914 will ride again.
Here’s my write-up on driving Vic’s 914 when he was in town two years ago.
Well, some real highs and lows for this trip. I am glad for the good parts and sorry to hear of the little German car’s fever. Perhaps this might be time to try an engine swap with something a little more robust? Like maybe a Studebaker 259 V8? Of course that will require significant weight added to the front end so that the front wheels can be brought back down to the ground. Steering is important.
I was not actually thinking about Studebakers until I saw this New Yorker. Chrysler’s Turbo phase of the 80s always reminded me of Studebaker’s supercharger phase of the 60s – a way to get some decent power out of a too-small engine. Yes, these New Yorkers always made me shake my head from the cognative dissonance.
Seriously, good luck on getting your longtime automotive companion back on the road.
Also Stude-like were the too-narrow big cars on the K-derived platform like the New Yorker Fifth Avenue and Imperial. All of the K-based cars had to be about the same width, which made the Shadow and Sundance seem too wide and the stretched sedans seem too narrow. I think Chrysler was less hurt by the narrowness than Studebaker was though; by the ’90s use of the middle seating position, especially in front, seemed to have declined as minivans and SUVs took over hauling duty for larger families or groups. For many who bought the long FWD Chryslers and only normally seated two to four people, the narrow dimensions were an advantage, making the car more maneuverable and allowing much easier ingress/egress in tight parking spaces than with land-yacht New Yorkers of yore.
Was the New Yorker the only car that got downsized three times in a row?
Was the New Yorker the only car that got downsized three times in a row?
An interesting question….going out on a perhaps weak limb, might I nominate the Lincoln Mark Series as being one to downsize multiple times.
The ’73 to ’76 Mark IV was the King Kong version; the ’77 to ’79 Mark V was distinctly lighter (and maybe marginally smaller); the Mark VI was Panther based; the Mark VII was Fox based. So one could argue it was four in a row that kept getting smaller.
Wow, I never would’ve guessed the Mark V weighed about 500 lbs. less than the Mark IV – what did they do? (besides a smaller base engine)
The Mark V height was reduced by 0.6″, and the width was a tenth of an inch less. However, the Mark V was 2.2 inches longer than the ’76 Mark IV, so I don’t think it can be considered downsized, just down-weighted.
The Mark VI (Panther) and Mark VII (Fox) make it two in a row, but the Mark VIII again became 4 to 5 inches longer depending on year.
But I thought of another contender for three major downsizings in a row: Buick Riviera (’77, ’79, ’86)
JP, Jim, Doug et al, members of the CC universe
This current adventure with the 914 has many sidebars and chapters that merits a full, and future, CC write-up. In brief, the ’14 is my favorite car and despite the humble origins of its power source, a type IV VW engine it has been a fundamentally reliable long distance car. In fact this “14 has functioned for years like a “pur sang” GT capable of crossing the North American Continent with relative comfort (?-comfort is a relative concept, for some comfort and a 914 might be incompatible concepts, but not for me).
In brief, during late April 2018, I drove from Cleveland, Ohio taking a more southerly route through Iowa to avoid a swirling blizzard in Wisconsin and Minnesota, then headed north to cruise at relatively high speed, about 85-90 mph ( 137-144 kph) through South Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana, then into Alberta (Banff and Lake Louise) on the way to pick up a friend in Vancouver, BC, for a car rally beginning in Kamloops.
A critical event occurred on Montana on route 87 in Montana that would have a future consequence of the ole gal 914. Cresting over a hil top, while traveling at about 85mph, there, slowly sauntering across 87 was a flock of Canadian Geese ( American Geese, as some Canadians insist). My eyeballs just about popped out in surprise. Despite deep braking, and careful aiming of the ’14, I caused the untimely passing of “Charlie”, the Canadian Goose with minimal damage to the ’14’s front, but a wide variety of sounds under the car, and seen in the rear view mirror, an amazing explosion of feathers and body parts. I pulled over, half expecting to be overwhelmed by a flock of grieving geese, but they just continued wandering across the road as though nothing had happened. Simply amazing.
Quick inspection of the car reveled only a minimally broken fluted fog light surround. The rubber Bumper Dagmar ( aka Tit) luckily hit the goose straight and was wearing a “Last of the Mohican’s”, or a Sioux Indian Chief’s feathery headdress. Amazing. Ah, but sight unseen, like the Titanic’s below waterline iceberg damage was damage to the air cooling shroud sheet metal that was to become evident later, much later, but luckily thousands of miles later, actually about 4,000 miles later, in Winnemucca, Nevada when the final holding screws let loose.
I have to defend Porsche of Reno, their service department was still open (!) on Saturday evening when I arrived at about 5:00pm, the service manager, Dolf, was a grey hair oldster like me and had raced 914’s, but he wasn’t able to work on the 914 himself, he apologized that his younger tech’s, all younger than the 914, would be perplexed by the “old air cooled beast”. He gave me the name of an independent Porsche shop, Reno Rennsport, that would be open on Monday, he called one of the owners of Rennsport to assure that I would be taken care of “first thing Monday morning”–and so I was. Dolf gave me hotel and dinner recommendations which were simply great. We talked about me seeing the Great American Automobile Museum (fabulous, a must for a future CC gathering) the next day(Sunday). I couldn’t have asked for better treatment. No complaints, and no worries on my part.
When Reno Rennsport, repaired the ’14 on Monday, there were feathers everywhere, some ingested by the cooling fan, and feathers, etc, were cleaned out around the cylinder and head cooing fins as best as possible. All was done as best as could be done, but the engine had been critically overheated, causing the additional overheating and ultimate loosening of a valve seat during the long hot grades in Nevada.
Ultimately while watching the oil temp gauge like a hawk, I limped into Las Vegas, had great help from a friend there, and met great people at the independent Porsche shop,. The owner, Tony, was most gracious, and refused payment for his diagnostic work, saying that all he wanted to do was “help someone far from home” with a wounded engine. Again, I met simply delightful, helpful people–and nothing better could have happened.
So this long distance adventure ended at the 6700 mile mark( about 10,780 Km) since leaving Cleveland, and if I had been able to drive it home, it would have covered about 11,000 miles (17,700Km). Not bad for an old 45 year old 914.
I arranged for shipping of the wounded 914 back to Cleveland, hoping to avoid “if it happens in Vegas, it stays in Vegas” .
Since I was to join my youngest son in Colorado for the Silver Summit Rally, but now without my old pal, the ’14, plan B had to be developed: a flight to Denver and, due to the permission of the rally master, the rental of a modern car, a 2018 Mustang Convertible. Through the mountains and passes of Colorado, especially on routes 141 and 145, the handling and the power of the
2.3 liter Ecoboost 4 cylinder Mustang was a revelation.
As though the Gods were planning something for Jim Cavanaugh, a participant in the Silver Summit had a supercharged 1963 Studebaker Avanti. Jim, here is a photo, relish the Studie joy. There were Panteras galore, as well!
The 914 will be rejuvenated and fly again like a rebuilt DC-3.
So more anon, for future CC posts.
Cheers, yr mst lyl & fthfl srvnt, Geelong Vic
Glad I didn’t have a final, complete engine breakdown in the desolate desert parts of southeastern Oregon or Nevada which looked like this.
Wish I was there right now, in my van. it’s going to be a while yet….
I once hit a goose, but in a 67 Ford. The feather shower is indeed amazing, but the after-effects on the car were nil. I had never thought about how catastrophic that could be in an air-cooled car. You really know how to put the down in breakdown. 🙂
I hope you decide to write up your trip with a proper CC miniseries.
More Avanti joy for Jim from the Colorado Silver Summit
Very nice!
The New Yorker Turbo is an ’87-’88 model – it has full width taillights first seen for 1986 but no fake side louvers. Don’t forget the greenglow-tastic electronic dash!
A door is ajar.
Please fasten your seatbelt.
Vic, it sounds like it was a good trip for a while. I admire your grit in going that far in your Porsche; having done only 1,100 miles round trip in the old water pump gobbling Ford, traveling in old cars always makes for some excess perspiration. Hope you had your Pisster with you.
There is something weirdly appealing about these Chryslers, not that I’d ever want one. An immaculate twin to this one was buzzing around the Lake of the Ozarks area last week; this particular one in Eugene looks to be well taken care of also.
I wonder if a “rolling driver change” would be doable in a 914? No center console to get in the way so maybe…
Plenty of height available with the Targa roof open. 🙂
While I understand the reasons why, it has to be a sad day when the service department at a Porsche dealer doesn’t have a single person that might be able to look at and re-attach a fan shroud on an air-cooled Porsche. Although I’d have no greater faith in a VW service tech being able to do much for an OG Beetle….not that they’d have much use for the knowledge but you’d expect the service department to be staffed with folks that have an innate curiosity as to how things work and be inveterate tinkerers.
Anyway, sorry to hear it couldn’t run the main event this year. Consider it a “rebuilding” year!
Oh, and those New Yorker seats look mighty cozy!
I would not have gone to a Porsche dealer; the outcome was predictable. And this is the case with any vintage car. Look for a vintage car specialist.
I’d like to see the looks I’d get if I showed up at the Ford dealer with my truck asking for a tune up. 🙂
The Mercedes dealer certainly doesn’t welcome me in driving any of their old iron. The salesmen ignore me; service won’t give me a VMI but the parts department is able often to get very old stuff (recently visor clip, bumper trim and rubber antenna base shroud for an ’88 E class). They don’t have the fuel distributor I need; it’s no longer available.
True and I agree in principle but they should have been able to handle it. All they seem to be able to do these days is plug it in and replace whatever the machine says to replace. it doesn’t sound like it was an issue that actually required diagnostic ability, just the ability to look and use some problem solving skills along with a modicum of mechanical ability.
Yeah, there’s a point about Porsche not being able to fix an aircooled engine- their old trademark, but like you said, regardless of dealership there should be someone available who was able to attach a fan shroud – regardless of vehicle. It’s a fan shroud.
I have taken my 1957 T-Bird into an independent garage here and they have one older guy (my age) who works on it. The others have never seen a car with a carb or points or generator. What helps it that I always buy the parts beforehand and take them in with me (great parts support exists
for old T-Birds).
LOL PSA bought Rootes and I do go to my local Peugeot/Citroen dealer in my old Minx but I never ask for parts for it or service,
oddly enough hidden away in the workshop is a 58 Vette and a 57 BelAir hardtop and a Daimler Jag MK2 so someone there knows old cars
That New Yorker is really amazing. Who kept it in such great shape all these years? These all vanished in Atlanta in the mid 90’s, probably due to a combination of buyer neglect and disinterest. Nobody really was willing to throw money on maintaining and repairing a K car once it got to a certain age, so off to the boneyard they went for what were probably relatively simple repairs. The K car was made out of pretty solid materials, but they always felt rattly and a little loose. I suppose people are more willing to repair a car which feels better after a certain period of time, whereas with a K car, it was time to look for what was next.
It’s easy to laugh at this tarted up prole transport now, and actually, it was easy to laugh at it then, but consider the pros.
Historically, luxury cars had used a lot of prole bones; Cadillacs were for a long time fancy Caprices and Lincolns were fancy LTDs.
When this car was being developed, gas was expected to reach $5 a gallon in 1985 dollars. A reasonably sized, economical car with lots of traditional luxury cues but without the bulk made a lot of sense then and now.
Lee Iacocca did the best he could with what he had and still had the rwd Fifth Avenue For the super traditional codgers.
Lee had been enormously successful with glitzing up prole transport like the Falcon and making Lincoln beat Cadillac, so why not this?
It wasn’t an Eldorado or Seville, which were really pathetic redesigns of formerly stately, impressive cars. No one expected much from Chrysler.
This wasn’t really supposed to go head to head with Cadillacs and Lincolns, this was really priced against a higher line Oldsmobile Ciera/Buick Century, or “for a few bucks more per month, wouldn’t you really . . . ” or for the people trading in the Volare for something cushier. Lots of people really wanted all the traditional luxury appointments, cushy pillow top seats, electric buttons, lights, and toys in a reasonably sized package and at a reasonable price, and loved it. As I recall, these sold fairly well, and much better than the Plymouth Caravelle or E Class that they were related to.
My Grandfather’s last car was the last generation of the EEK, the ’91ish New Yorker Fifth Avenue or whatever it was called. He loved all the traditional luxury features and electronic toys and gadgets. It was a relative bargain with all the discounts. He didn’t care or didn’t notice that it wasn’t really competitive anymore with cars like the Oldsmobile Eighty Eight at that time. This car absolutely hit the nail on the head for Chrysler and Iacocca; the problem its success generated was that Iacocca didn’t invest in the next generation of Chrysler platforms.
The issue with Porsche dealers is simple really. Some are Premier rated and will move heaven and earth to attempt a repair on anything built by the factory, even tractors. This includes keeping an old guy or two around who enjoy challenges. The things we don’t enjoy? Hacked to Hell cars with goofy DIY mods which are impossible to even understand. Like aftermarket fuel injection crap with no instructions etc.
Here we have a car that should never have overheated in the first place provided the shroud and tins having been installed correctly. With the proper hardware and tightening these don’t “vibrate loose.”
I see a lot of these shenanigans and have an acronym for it.; ESO. Equipment Superior to Operator……
Hey, two great guys I haven’t seen since Detroit!
Nice to see Vic’s 914, and sorry to hear about the engine trouble. At least you didn’t press on and cause further damage.
Having worked for Style Porsche in Weissach for 15 years I’m ashamed that a dealer could not tighten Vic’s fan shroud – it only requires using a wrench for pity’s sake! A 914 is much simpler than any modern Porsche. It should have been repaired with a smile and for the pleasure of having helped a passionate enthusiast for the marque…..
Isn’t a burnt #4 cylinder valve from getting too hot something that was covered in this classic book?
Wow- Vic !
A 6.000 miles plus roundtrip in a Porsche 914 crossing the desert….you´re the man.
My longest trip in my 1978 vintage car featuring A/C was a mere 1.200 km roundtrip on german highways and I remember never feeling completely comfortable given it´s feeble overall condition.
and yeah…what a bizarre juxtaposition….
TURBO : I am modern car and as fast as a rocket.
Fake wire wheel covers: My ancestors were horse carriages….
Fake wires lend a Kmart quality look to any car never mind something that was meant to look upscale, turbo though thats a badge I like.
As VW engines fade into the stuff of legends, people tend to forget how sophisticated the air cooling system on those cars actually was. The air flow was very carefully routed and any problems with the shroud virtually guaranteed overheating. I have personal experience of cooking an engine when a friend fried a bus by doing something that only a 17 year-old would. We were on a road trip and so he contentiously checked his oil at a gas stop, using a wad of paper towels to wipe the dipstick. After confirming that he had a full crankcase, he looked around for a place to toss the oily towels. Seeing none, he shrugged and tossed the paper towels into the back of the bus engine bay. A couple hours later….
How did you handle the fire?
If he’s anything like Niedermeyer, there would have been a full Pisster at the ready.
My wife and I bought an ’87 New Yorker in 1993 or so.
It wasn’t a turbo. But it was good transportation, so much so that several years later, when our mechanic suggested a rebuilt engine, we did it.
We also had the transmission rebuilt a couple of years after THAT.
A big source of amusement was the computer voice feature on the car. It would announce that a door was ajar. To which the kids in the car would shout “No, it’s a door!”
The voice would also announce such ominous things as “Your engine oil pressure is low. Prompt service is required”.
Back when Eddie Murphy was still funny, he had a brief, profane but classic bit about talking cars as part of his stand up routine. As you can imagine, talking cars sounded a bit different in his neighborhood. Maybe someone here knows how to link to it? I found it by googling Eddie Murphy Talking Cars. “Hey man, …”
Vic, I had no idea you were embarking on such an adventure! I’ll be road-tripping out that neck of the woods in September but my voyage will be in a rental car so it hopefully won’t be as dramatic as yours…
Paul, that New Yorker is a beaut. Even though the turbo is a weird fit for the car, I like them a lot more than the stretched taffy ’89-92 ones. And I like them more than the rather plain K LeBaron. That interior sure looks comfy…