(first posted 7/2/2013) If you’re seeing a whole lot of similarity between the sheet metal (except the grille) of today’s ’62 Cutlass coupe and this ’62 Tempest, you’re not mistaken. In fact, now that I think of it, there’s little doubt that no other two GM cars from different divisions ever shared so much of the same body until we get into the modern badge-engineering era that started with the 1971 Pontiac Ventura, no less. But unlike later badge-engineered GM cars, this one was very different than its body donor under the skin.
I did a comprehensive story on the 1961-1963 Tempest here, covering John DeLorean’s ambitious attempt to incorporate independent rear suspension, high performance four cylinder engines and some other unique bits to distinguish Pontiac’s new compact from its Buick and Olds stablemates. Pontiac was originally planned to have a badge-engineered Corvair as its compact, but DeLorean was very skeptical of the Corvair rear engine’s effect on handling. So he cobbled up the Tempest, but had to use the Olds F-85’s sheet metal pretty much intact, due to budget constraints. And its 195 CID slant four was expediently created by deleting on of the cylinder banks of the 389 Pontiac V8, which allowed it use the hi-performance parts developed for the V8. The highest output versions sported 165 hp, pretty substantial for the day, and especially for a four. Of course, it wasn’t exactly a paragon of smooth running.
Our man about Seattle, ActuallyMike, shot this Tempest coupe sitting next to a fine old International pickup. I know one of you will tell us its year and the torque specs for its cylinder head from memory. In fact he’s from Seattle too, so maybe he knows this particular truck.
If I recall correctly didn’t these cars utilize a transaxle?
Essentially the Corvair transaxle (and dash mounted shift paddle on the automatic) joined to the motor by a semi-flexible drive shaft. It actually handled a slight curving profile to fit between the two, and was saddled with the moniker “rope drive” as a result.
Well if you’ve every held one in your hand you’d see why it earned the name rope drive.
I still think it was a stupid moniker, since a rope is utterly incapable of transmitting any torque. It rather confused me as a kid. There must have been a better way to describe a flexible shaft in other terms.
Well it actually was a hemp rope to hear Jeremy Clarkson tell it.
Confused me too when I first heard of it.
Even in the best of tune these 4 cylinders weren’t all that smooth running.
It made a Corvair feel like a Cadillac by comparison.
For a detailed explanation and photos, follow the link in the post, or this one: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1963-pontiac-tempest-lemans-pontiac-tries-to-build-a-bmw-before-bmw-built-theirs-and-almost-succeeds/
Until today, I had never really thought about how similar the size and output were of the Olds 215 V8 and the Trophy Four – a difference of about 20 cubic inches and about 20 horsepower, give or take.
This car reminds me of why I like the styling on the Olds better. The Pontiac’s front, rear and side treatments (plus the big 15 inch wheels/wheelcovers) sort of blunts most of the sharp creases of the design. Where the F-85 makes you think of a blade with a sharp edge (like a Cutlass?), the Pontiac is styled to look more like a Blackjack.
+1 I’m not a fan of the 15″ wheels and the wheelcovers that adorned them.
IMO the ’61 Tempest with its’ less-gigantic but still conceptually pure interpretation of the ’59 split grille is the best looking early Tempest. Too bad Detroit couldn’t just stick with the same look through a whole design cycle back then.
+1. Always thought the ’62 looked awkward.
Actually the Old F85 Cutlass styling reminds me of the 59 Buick Electra shrunken down more than anything else. The side styling blades is a pretty obvious styling cue from the big Buick than any other big Olds theme that was around at the time.
Of course the IH caught my eye immediately. It is wearing the “D” grille which if it is original to the truck means that it would have been made in 65 or early 66 as that model had an aprox 15 month production run. On the other hand since IH’s were not all that common, you pretty much took what you could find in the wrecking yard if you needed parts. So it could be any where from a 61-68 depending on exactly how much and what has been swapped.
Concerning the main subject of this article I like the Tempest’s front end treatment much better than the Olds that donated most of the exterior sheet metal. The front fender does a particularly good job of finishing up the lines from the door in a form that is much more appealing to me. Of course if was going to pick any of the Senior Compacts the Buick would be my first choice.
It was the blue pickup that first caught my eye. That sun-bleached blue was hard to miss. It was a definite bonus when I came a bit closer and saw the black Tempest.
As for which of the early 60s B-O-P compacts I would go for, I’d have to say +1 on the Buick.
The “Trophy Four” engine is wild.. When people say it’s a 389 sliced in half, they are not kidding. If you are looking at this engine from the passenger side, it can easily be mistaken for a Pontiac V8.
Could you fit a 389 in there? Would the torque destroy the driveshaft?
Yes it fit, and it appears the driveshaft could handle the torque for at least a 1/4 mile:
1963 389 Tempest
The 326 was offered for 1963 and it was the same block as the 389. And one of them (running through a 3 speed stick) was massaged enough to spank an R2 Super Lark in acceleration tests in a period comparison test.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/automotive-history-1963-days-popular-science-tests-the-hot-compacts/
Edit
The 61-63 Temp’s have a strong cult following. There was a 50th anniv. meet in 2011.
So which had more NVH issues the Trophy-4 or the Fireball V6?
Neither was a paragon of smoothness but the Trophy-4 was about the roughest thing I have ever driven. At idle, it jumped up and down on its very soft engine mounts and due to their very softness, said mounts didn’t last all that long. Then you got really rough stuff going on, like a steering column that shook at idle.
There is a reason this engine wasn’t around for long. When gas was 30 cents a gallon, who really needed it?
I’ve driven one – a 2 speed auto – and apart from the unassisted steering being about a billion turns lock to lock, I thought it was pretty smooth.
Nice but not quite as nice as the Olds
It’s a sad irony that what ultimately killed the advanced IRS/rear transaxle Tempest was none other than the Falcon and Comet. While the Tempest met all its sales goals, so did the utterly conventional and dull (but much more profitable) Ford products. GM executives accurately figured out that they could make a lot more money by switching the Tempest to a conventional drivetrain, and by 1964. that’s exactly what happened.
As the linked article points out, Pontiac could have beaten BMW to the sport sedan market. But during the cheap gas, low insurance, minimal govt regulation sixties, an American sport sedan meant a low cost, big V8 engine, live rear axle musclecar (ironically started by the same guy who created the rope-drive Tempest). Too bad events in the seventies would virtually wipe-out that market leaving BMW, to this day, considered the model of the modern sport sedan.
I think part of the problem was that the Fords were better suited to the “slam-the-hood-and-forget-about-it” approach to maintenance taken by the majority of American drivers.
The GM trio had interesting engineering features, but you had to be on the ball regarding maintenance, and accept that these cars required more of it. People used to their reliable, low-maintenance (for the times) Dynamic 88s or Electras weren’t too enthusiastic about that.
Well the Oldsmobile and Buick were the most conventional,of the compacts, but Olds and Buick buyers were probably the least open to trying the new compacts, but the huge demand for all sort of compacts that was supposed to happen in the early 60’s never really took off, compact car sales increased, but everyone was expecting a huge swell in demand for smaller cars.
GM set up its compacts as entire separate car lines within each division, in anticipation of a great compact car frenzy that never came, the nicer Buick and Olds compacts weren’t entry level cars, the ritzy Skylark and Cutlass had trim like a sporty mid level senior LeSabre or 88.
For Pontiac, Olds and Buick, it lead to their compacts becomming much more conventional now MID SIZED cars in 1964, and they sold like hot cakes for almost 20 plus years after that.
Even closer to the “sport sedan” concept would have been the 1966 Pontiac Tempest Custom or LeMans 4-door hardtop with the optional Sprint package with the high-compression 230 cid OHC six (207 hp), sports suspension and 3-on-the-floor (or optional 4-speed) plus special-order Strato bucket seats, Rally Gage Cluster, Custom Sport steering wheel, power steering, power brakes with metallic linings. Car and Driver road tested a so-equipped ’67 LeMans with all those items that was also loaded with stuff such as tilt wheel, power windows, vinyl roof, etc. in late 1966 and had it shipped over the Europe for their test drive – which appeared in the February, 1967 issue. Aside from minor gripes such as longing for a good automatic transmission (Sprint was only offered with the 2-speed Jetaway while the 3-speed Turbo-Hydramatic was a GTO-only option), a hard ride that left rear-seat riders feeling they’re behinds were being whacked with a baseball bat through 6 inches of foam, plus malfunctioning windshield wipers; C/D felt it was a credible effort to for Detroit to compete with BMW and such. But … C/D believed the same car would work better with the available 326 HO V8 as it offered more horsepower, concluding that Detroit could build cars better suited for American driving needs. Of course Pontiac would build such a car 6 years later, the 1973 Grand Am – but that was a much bigger and heavier car than the ’67 and had much bigger 400 and 455 V8s, and came out at about the wrong time,
I think 63 was the best year for these, they get the nice clean Pontiac divided grille front end and the rear wheel well opens up more, very classy. I think the 61-62 are a little odd, the front styling apes the larger Pontiacs, but a year or so behind, almost like the were released late, the 61 Tempest had a front end similar to a 59 full size Pontiac, the 62 mimics the 1960 Pontiac, strange.
That sounds like “trickle-down” styling in effect. You saw a feature or theme on the more prestigious and expensive big cars, and waited a year or two for it to appear on the “economy” Tempest.
They also got a much-improved suspension: the ’61 and ’62 were no prizes in that department.
Doesn’t that make up part of the appeal of a ’61 or ’62 Tempest? A car that still endulged in ’50s styling at a time when most other models already transitioned into straight boxes. It’s almost like a big car from the glory days, only smaller and with much more charming engineering under the panels. The ’63 is far too square and unpronounced for my taste.
Too bad Delorean didn’t stick around when they were thinking of making a mid-engine vette, they could’ve used his engineering skills & ideas.
Too bad for them because they bullied him out.
These are as cute as a bug. I like the wagons too.
The International pickups of that era could be had with their half-a-V8 four cylinder from the Scout. They probably didn’t get too many takers.
IH 152/196 /4 smoother than Tempest /4. Maybe because IH engine MUCH heavier. IH possibly most heavy gas engine of size.
I didn’t see it mentioned here (although it’s surely in the more in-depth Tempest feature) but the big Trophy-4 got the nickname ‘The Haybailer’ by Pontiac service people for the way it bounced around. With a name like ‘The Haybailer’, I doubt ‘smooth’ is a particularly accurate adjective for the way it ran.
The Corvair transaxle was unique in the Tempest application, as well. It had this big plate in the rear that covered where the Corvair’s engine would have normally been bolted.
All-in-all, the Tempest Trophy-4 was an experiment that, unfortunately, just didn’t pan out. They’d be one of the more interesting finds at a modern car show, though, and it’s heartening to know they have a following.
A reminder that even though GM got a lot of grief for badge engineering over the years, there was a time when the different divisions had significant autonomy and produced distinctive vehicles.
Meanwhile, Ford/Mercury and Plymouth/Dodge were always strictly different brand names for identical cars.
Just my opinion: The same shared basic body Buick Skylark was a much more attractive car, inside and out, with more reliable engine options (if the correct antifreeze was used).
Every Sunday all seven of us would jam ourselves into the 1961 Pontiac Tempest to drive through East Chicago Heights Industrial zone to a little church south of us in Crete Illinois. All of us were dressed in our Sunday best and filled with a breakfast of oatmeal and grape juice.
No air conditioning. So all the windows were rolled down, except for the rear window next to our grandmother, who was the church pianist. She had lavender hair, a hat with a little veil on it. She smelled like White Shoulders. I sat directly behind my dad with my brothers between us and our grandmother. I had allergies, so I would sneeze into a damp handkerchief as the warm morning breezes blew into the vinyl covered interior. We were all dressed up in small navy suits. Although my brothers and I were just barely school-age, we all knew how to tie our Sunday ties. We had black leather church shoes.
Light bluish-gray chemical clouds, yellow sulfuric clouds, and white fog would float along the ground, crossing the roads and dissipating into the air. Each cloud had its own pungent odor. The yellow cloud smelled like rotten eggs, the white fog smelled like a sweet butane gas, and the light bluish-gray chemical cloud smelled like burning leather and hair. “Hold your breath!”, my parents would advise us as the little Tempest drove through each toxic cloud. The stink would leave the car interior just in time for us to take another deep breath a few blocks later. Everyone would groan.
Soap bubbles would build up in the creek bed and get caught in the bridge supports crossing Joe Orr Road. This was in the age before biodegradable soap, so bright white tumble weeds of soap foam would cover the bridge and blow across the road. We tried to time it so that the little car wouldn’t get hit by one. Us kids loved watching the giant bubbles. We’d laugh when the wind would blow them across the road.
By the time we got to the Ford Stamping plant, my sister would tell my mother that she was ready to be sick. My mom would carry a sealed Tupperware bowl for these emergencies. My sister regularly got car sick. Between the oatmeal and the grape juice, she puke lavender. The same color as my Grandma’s hair. My little brother would gag and we would pull him back into the rear seat so that he could smell Grandma’s perfume instead.
The little Tempest had a low front bench seat without any headrests. Being tall, my parents’ shoulders were easily seen. There was a very low hump for my little brother to stand on, since the Tempest had, as my dad told us, “cables” between the engine in front and the transmission in the rear. So between the clouds we inhaled on the way to church, and the sick stink coming from the front seat, courtesy of my sister, the little Tempest seemed just too small for or growing family.
By the time we reached church, everyone was warm, nauseous and itchy due to the dress clothing and tight black leather dress shoes. There were just too many smells to endure every Sunday in the little Tempest. I bet my sister puked in that car one hundred times.
Consequently, I don’t have a lot of good memories of the little car. When I see a Pontiac Tempest of this era, I just get kind of sick.
Great little tale, and a cautionary one. It conjures up images as if you travelled through Dante’s Inferno to get to a meeting at god’s place.
Ah, these days, they just don’t make things they way they used to, huh.
And just as bloody well for that!