Anyone who’s hung around here for a while and still has a few active brain cells knows the Canadian Pontiac story by now: They look like real Pontiacs, but they’re really Chevys under the skin, including a slightly shorter 119″ wheelbase and X-frame rather than the US Pontiac’s 120″ wb and perimeter frame. But the most obvious result of that was that these Cheviacs were deprived of the famous “Wide Track” Pontiac suspension. And this 1964 Laurentian, posted at the Cohort by William Oliver, shows that all-too obviously, especially so in the rear wheel well. Is there a tire hiding under there?
Here’s a ’63 Wide-Track Catalina for comparison. Obviously, the front wheel is cocked a bit, but the rear wheel really pushes out against the fender line, unlike any other American car during the era. And the ’63 Pontiac’s rear fenders were the first to bulge out a bit, foreshadowing the Coke-bottle styling of 1965.
Pete Estes and John DeLorean had used the quite simple trick of widening the ’59 Pontiac’s track mostly for visual impact, to differentiate it from the other new ’59 GM cars, which all shared the same basic body. It wasn’t all cosmetic, as there was an intrinsic benefit in flatter cornering as a result, although the stock suspensions were hardly sporty.
From this view, the poor Cheviac looks almost like it’s up on jack stands. These cars also were all-Chevy under the hood too; typically a 283 with Powerglide for a modest low-trim sedan for the thrifty Canadians. Meanwhile, even the lowliest American Catalina came with the husky 389 Trophy V8.
Yup; this car does have a decided Bel Air vibe to it. And looking at it from the profile answers the question as to where the missing one inch in wheelbase went: the rear wheel is obviously a bit forward in that rear opening. The US Pontiac used the same B-Body, but with their different frame and exterior sheet metal, they located the rear axle one inch further rearward, centered in its opening.
Related reading:
CC 1963 Pontiac Catalina: The Sexiest Big Sedan Of Its Time
Wow. Hard to believe that shifting the wheel forward just one inch – in that huge wheel opening – can make things look so off kilter.
I have the opposite problem, having been brought home from the hospital in a narrow track Pontiac it’s the American one that looks off kilter to me 🙂
Submarine school buddy of mine who was Canadian Forces drove one of these. It was a little older but a Cheviac. I never really understood the point. Why not just export Chevrolets?
Just to make it more confusing regular Chevys and Pontiacs were sold alongside RHD Cheviacs and Acadians at Lendrums GM showroom in 60s London!
It was due to protectionism and and small size of the Canadian market. Canada was placing heavy tariffs on any imported automobile or any imported parts. When a US car was imported into Canada, not only did it have a high tariff, the rarity added on even more to the price. A US model Pontiac could easily be double the money of a plebeian Strato Chief.
Canada had about 2/3 of the purchasing power of the USA at the time and the climate of most of the country is very harsh. As a kid, I would say at least 80% of cars I saw were total strippers, many with three on the tree. The cars didn’t last long, so the cheapest cost per mile was popular. This means that there is never going to be a lot of demand for expensive cars in Canada. Finally, the market was only about one twelfth that of the USA at the time.
As archaic as it may sound there was still Imperial Preference going on, and cars from Canada to other Commonwealth countries were shipped duty-free.
The auto pact of 1967 changed all that. In the early 1970’s lots of big ole American iron showed up! My uncle was so proud of his 1970 Catalina and by 1973 or so there were lots of Bonnevilles around. Canada had grown a lot by then.
The auto pact of 1967 changed all that. In the early 1970’s lots of big ole American iron showed up!
And vice versa. The earliest car I remember with a Transport Canada sticker in the door jamb was a ’73 LeMans sedan that belonged to one of my Dad’s coworkers. Built in Oshawa, sold new in Houston.
Other than a/c that thing was spec’d out in the true Canadian tradition – a stripper, right down to dog dish hubcaps!
After the auto pact, it was much cheaper for US makers to build cars in Canada. Part of it was due to lower health care costs and easier access to materials but mostly lower wages. That promptly ended with NAFTA. For a while, Oshawa was protected by the low Canadian dollar, but when GM went belly up in 2007, most of GM’s Canadian operations were either closed or moved to Mexico. That is after Harper gave them $650,000,000 in bailout money,
O Canadaaaaaa! Home of the weird car braaaand…
The Canadian market stuff is a bit confusing to me, and this auto pact thing is interesting. Explains some of the Canadian oddities this site has taught me so much aboot…
Some Qs for you Dominions chaps:
– Who signed/implemented this pact? Was is the US and Canadian gov’ts? Sort of NAFTA-lite? Did it affect Canadian exports to the Commonwealth, and British exports to Canada? Does it have anything to do with the devaluation of Sterling (also in 1967)?
– I’m aware of the GM Acadian and Ford Monarch / Frontenac / Meteor Canada-only brands. Were those exported to Commonwealth countries?
– What did Mopar do, re-badge Dodges as DeSoto Diplomats like they did in Europe and elsewhere (such as South Africa, where they sold DeSotos until 1962, IIRC)? And the others: were there Canadian Hudsons, Kaisers, Packards or AMCs?
– Speaking of others, Studebaker ended up exporting cars from Canada to the USA in 65-66 — just before this auto pact thing got started. Does this mean the last Studes were taxed as imports in the US (which may have been offset by currency or labour costs)? Did they export to RHD countries under the Imperial Preference policy?
On a side note, as a francophone, I always thought it pretty funny that there were Meteor models called “Rideau” (French for “curtain”). I like to think they were sold in pairs for the Quebecois.
I’m sure RHD Falcons,Fairlanes and Galaxies were on sale in the UK in the 60s from Canada.Later Falcons came from Australia
That is a lot of questions.
The Auto Pact was negotiated by Lyndon Johnson and Lester Pearson. Apparently Johnson thought by giving the poor relations this plum, Canada would get involved in the Vietnam War. We didn’t, and Johnson was not very happy about that.
All brands were available and all the major makers, including Kaiser-Fraser had plants in Canada. That made the Rambler popular, although the were the worst rusters out there,
Ford indeed exported to the Empire from Canada, even RHD versions.
Greetings from Québec. The name Rideau refers to the Rideau River and, where it flows into the Ottawa River, you will find the Rideau waterfalls. The Rideau waterfalls look very much like a curtain, hence the name. And yes, it’s actually a pair of curtains, on either side of Green Island! The Rideau waterfalls are located in Canada’s capital, near the French embassy and the official residence of the Canadian Prime Minister.
Thank you both, mes chers cousins canadiens.
Did some more browsing and found http://www.oldcarscanada.com, chock full of info on many of these wonderful Canadian models. Feels good to think of the great North as I sit in my monsoon-soaked tropical hellhole…
Another point that has not been mentioned in this discussion is the Canadian dealer network was a big reason for these Canadian brands. Many parts of Canada were sparsely populated and had small towns with large distances between. This meant a small town may only be able to support a Pontiac-Buick franchise or a Mercury-Lincoln, and not a Chev-Olds or Ford dealer. Canadians being more thrifty then Americans preferred cheaper plainer cars, so a Pontiac dealer wouldn’t sell many Bonnevilles. So the Canadian Pontiac was made to be a low priced car, a competitor to Chevrolet rather than a step up. Ford instead created a new brand, the Metoer, a low priced car that could be sold at Mercury dealers that competed with Fords price class. Chrysler had the lower priced Plodges in Canada as well. In the truck market this created Mercury trucks and Fargo trucks, GM already had GMC trucks for the Pontiac-Buick dealers.
Also, note that even after the American Pontiacs started to be sold in Canada, there was a confusing mixture of American and Canadian models. By the later 1970’s (around 1977 with the downsized cars) this had been consolidated into basically Parisienne, Catalina and Laurentian (from high to low price). These Pontiacs continued to use Chevrolet drivetrains (even the Catalinas). Further many other Canadian market cars of this era used Chevrolet engines such as the A/G-body Buicks, Olds and Pontiacs cars which US counterparts used BOP engines. GM of Canada only produced Chevrolet V8’s.
Prior to 1982, the Parisienne was very similar to the Bonneville. A 1981 Parisienne was essentially a badge engineered Bonneville with a Chevrolet 305 V8 in place of the Pontiac 301. When GM eliminated the B-body from the Pontiac line in 1982, GM of Canada used its limited resources to create the 1982 Parisienne which was essentially a badge engineered Chevrolet B-body sedan. This was done because the fullsize Pontiac remained a staple of the Canadian market. When US dealers complained about the lack of a real fullsize car, the Parisienne was hastily imported from Canada. These cars were all built in Oshawa. After 1985, the old dies for the 1981 style Pontiac quarter panels were brought back into production and the Parisienne production moved to the US.
Interesting about engines. When the huge kerfuffle over what engine was going into what car, nobody in Canada cared in the least. We were used to Chevy engines in Pontiacs. and had been for decades.
In 1960s summertime in San Francisco, it appeared that quite a few tourists from Canada drove their Cheviacs to visit. They were quite commonly seen on the street. The “narrow-track” look was odd to those of us accustomed to USA Pontiacs. Identification was confirmed by the “Laurentian” or “Strato Chief” script.
Why weren’t they called “Pontolets?”
This reminded me of a girl I dated in HS who had a third-gen Riviera, and the first time I rode with her in the car, I thought she was going to run off the side of the road. I pointed this out, and she replied that the wheels were well inside the wheel wells and she had plenty of room… at which point she drove over even closer to the ditch!
And to make it even more confusing in 1970 they started selling “Wide Track” Catalinas and Bonnevilles along side the Strato Chiefs, Laurentians and Parisennes in Canadian showrooms. The US model cars had Pontiac 400 and 455 V8s while the Canadian models had Chev engines…not 100% sure about the 1970 models on this but I know in 1969 and earlier the big block 396 and 427 were available.
The Canadian models continued for 1970 and the only engine I have ever seen in them was the Chevrolet 350. I do believe the small block 400 was available and even the 454. I saw one 454 when I was a kids, but it must have been one hunk of motor for a car that size, since they were pretty light. My dad had 1970 Sratochief stripper with 350-2V and Powerglide. By this time Chevrolet had stopped using the X frame so the cars didn’t look so weird.
“Cheviacs” still had Chevy engines in 1970. Back in my junkyard scavenging days I always looked for ’69 and ’70 full size Pontiacs as they were almost certain to have a 350 Chevy in them and very often the 300 hp version with a 4 bolt main block and the “good ” heads. The only ones I ever saw with real Pontiac engines were US models, which were probably available from dealers at reasonable prices by 1970.
Full size Pontiacs from that era were actually better sources of Chevy engines than Chevrolets were. You were far more likely to find a 327 or 350 in a “Cheviac”, while most Chevy’s seemed to be 283s and 307s.
Yes, I recall my uncle’s 1970 Catalina had a Chevrolet 350-4V and THH350. It was considered quite a hotrod in the family at the time.
Old car brochures has the 1969 Canadian Pontiac specs which shows everything from the 250 six to the 427 but the biggest engine I saw was the 350 and the 327 before that.
And where are the 8 lug wheels?
If you were able to find or weld up the right negative offset wheels, you could put some really wide tires under there and not have to worry about fender clearance. I’m not sure the wheel bearings would like it, though.
In the early to mid ’60s, Pontiac was actually the best selling brand in Canada. Lots of them had straight 6s in them, as I suspect this one does since it does not have the little “V8” badge on the front fender. The Laurentian was indeed the Bel Air equivalent, the top of the line was the Parisienne or the Parisienne Custom Sport if you wanted bucket seats. The entire Chevy engine lineup was available and there are a few documented 409 cars out there. As Paul says though, the 283 Powerglide was by far the most common powertrain.
These cars were literally everywhere when I was a kid.
They sure were. Most people could afford the few extra dollars for a Pontiac over a Chevy. My gradpa had a 1963 Stratochief with six and three on the tree, for example. My uncle had a 1967 with a 327, which he was very proud of.
The Laurentian was actually more actually more of a Bel Air, the Strato Chief being the total stripper. Granpa’s didn’t even have an outside mirror, for example, and heater (in Canada, believe it or not) was not included.
Traffic wasn’t very fast or heavy in early 1960’s Canada so the old stovebolt Ponchos had no problem cruising right along at 60 mph.
I had no idea. I thought a Pontiac was a Pontiac, but I guess the Canuck Pontiacs were nothing more than Chevies with Pontiac bodies. I`ll be on the lookout if I ever see one here in NJ. Guess you learn something new every day.
You may very well seen a Canadian Pontiac in NJ and not realized it. In the early 1980’s Pontiac got stupid and killed off its B Body Catalina and Bonneville and downsized the Bonneville. It flopped and they lost a lot of customers to Chevy, Olds and Buick because they still had B Body based vehicles. Pontiac realized by 1983 it should have kept the B Body and imported the Parisienne(which was nothing but a Caprice Classic with Pontiac grills and taillights.
True, the ’83 and ’84 Parisiennes were almost identical to the Caprice. People realized this and not all that many were sold (in the US at least), at which point they brought back out the old ’81 Bonneville sheetmetal and combined it with the newer front clip for ’85. Those sold a good bit better, but still for only ’85-’86.
We got these in Oz too, lower duties on Imperial products than American cars. Hard to see the point of buying one versus a Chev though…
Yep, all my relatives in Winnipeg and across Western Canada had Pontiacs at various times through the 60s and 70s, and no doubt earlier. Tough, basic prairie sedans, mostly, although pictures show my Aunt had a very sleek, fully-loaded 1962 Parisienne convertible V8; black with white interior — sharp! And I remember being impressed by an uncle’s sleek blue 1969 Parisienne 2+2 coupe, complete with bucket seats and a centre console…
The brand held disproportionate volume for GM Canada long after anything “Canadian” about the marque disappeared, mainly as Canadian GM dealers were evenly divided between Chev-Olds and Pontiac-Buick-GMC (with both having the choice of carrying Caddy). To the bitter end, some of the last Pontiacs before the marque disappeared were Pontiac Waves/G3s, a re-badged Chev Aveo (actually a Daewoo).
IMO, the reason GM’s market share is now much lower in Canada than in the US (I believe 13% vs 17%), is largely down to the loss of (1) Pontiac and (2) any sort of minivan or truly competitive CUV. And, well, a lot of self-destructive behaviour – endless badge engineering, weird models mixes, “new” makes (Passport, Asuna) that came and went like the wind, and way too many small, old-fashioned-looking dealers, etc.
And, yes, Imperial Preference was real until Autopac and well beyond (and only ended because the British changed it when they entered the EU in 1973), which was why Canada got Vauxhall while the US got Opel (although the Opel GT was sold in Canada), and British cars were in fact very common, esp. in BC and the big cities, with a much wider variety than was common in the US at the time.
And because of Imperial preference we got Cheviacs, Plodges (and PleSotos until they died out) and C-Fords built here in New Zealand from Canadian kits also. This was in addition to Aussie-built oddities like the Chrysler Royal.
Kiwi tastes were even more Presbyterian so we had dog-dish hubcaps, plain leather or vinyl seats, and even less chrome.
RHD of course, so usually one year’s dash design was made to stretch across a number of makes and years.
When I moved to Vancouver Island in 1976, there was still a lot of British stuff around live the Viva and the Envoy. These were real bottom feeder cars in Canada, owned by librarians or bushwhackers, or expat Brits. Most didn’t make it passed a decade.
While in university in 1987, the Mazda shop I worked for at the time was previously a BL dealer, full line. He saw the writing on the wall and brought Mazda in circa 1970. When I was working there, a couple of BL cars came in to have their hydragas serviced, since we had one older Scot who could work on them.
Excellent! I grew up in Maine, and for a while–way too long–drove a 1969 StratoChief that my father bought from a Canadian coworker. Ugliest thing I ever saw: 2 door sedan trimmed like a Biscayne, not one piece of chrome, dog dishes, and dull gold paint All fronted by a scarred Pontiac beak, again in gold. Interior was rock hard black vinyl with terry cloth seat covers pinned on. At least it had a 350 and a heater. When my time mercifully ended, the car was passed down to my then brother-in-law. He supplemented daily use by running it at a nearby dragstrip. The last thing I ever saw was the engine wrapped in plastic tied with rope, sitting in the front yard of his rental.
That short WB makes the trunk of the car look longer then the hood of it. It looks odd. The USA sold Pontiacs of that era are much more symmetrical due to the WB.
For instance take this 1965 GTO that is owned by the owner of a local mom and pop car dealer(I took its picture when I dropped by to buy a 1997 Buick Lesabre last Friday to replace my dying Ford Taurus daily driver). with its stance and the correct wheel base for a car like this, it looks good and all the lines flow.
(my now former Taurus is shown next to it)
From the side
Yes it is a genuine matching numbers 1965 GTO with a 6.5l engine. If I get a chance(and figure out how to do so) I will write it up so that it gets its story told on CC. I took many pics of it.
The bottom enders were called Strato Chiefs and had 6 cylinder Chevy 230 inch engines as standard equipment. Real Pontiacs were available in Canada on special order. They were few and far between. I was once told a new Bonneville cost almost as much as a bottom line Cadillac.
As a kid growing up in western Canada there were plenty of Pontiacs to be seen in the sixties. The low-end models (Laurentian, Strato Chief) were realy bare bones but sold well because they were affordable. As one reader has mentioned the Canadian market back in the fifties and sixties was mainly plain jane cars. By the seventies incomes were up, more people had more money to spend and Canada has more cars to choose from.
I used to enjoy travelling to the US as a kid and seeing the American Pontiac models as the “Wide-Track” style really appealed to me.
No experience with Canuck Pontiacs, but my grandma bought a beige 64 Catalina sedan in 1967 after the starter packed it in on her 55 DeSoto. I always liked the look of the 64 model, but they seem ultra rare nowadays. I guess the Canadians were lucky in dodging the Roto Hydramatic bullet. Powerglide-equipped Canadian cars are probably found in much higher percentages these days.
That rear axle shoved forward like that is just strange looking.
I can vouch for canucklehead about most cars being strippers when we were growing up–Our family seemed to always own big GM cars and I don’t remember any of them with A/C or power windows. My aunt had a 1965 Impala SS but other than the nice interior it was a 283 powerglide. When I first got into the parts business early 80’s there were still a lot of daily driver Canadian Pontiacs–I remember if someone wanted belts or hoses we had to ask what colour the engine was if they didn’t know if it was a Chev or Pontiac V8
On family vacation in Niagara Falls ON, was amazed at all the Laurentians and Parisiennes all over the place. We drove across Ontario to lower MI, too.
This was summer ’73 and quite a few were 71-73 models. I don’t remember seeing any same year Chevs.
I really don’t think it’s necessarily the rear axle “moved forward” as it is more of how it appears with the Pontiac (basic) body sitting on an “X” frame Chevy chassis (1964 and earlier). I am aware that a Canadian Pontiac of this vintage uses the internal stampings identical to a Chevy (the trunk well is the deeper Chevy type, not the shallower American Pontiac). Growing up in NorCal, I’d see “Strato Chiefs”, “Grande Parisiennes” and “Laurentians” with B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario plates visiting; some hood up to expose a Chevy orange straight six or SBC . . . . I’m intrigue by these cars and they did fit the need to the times in Canada.
I noticed ads for 1964 Canadian Pontiacs that feature the complete line ups of both Canada and America, but had also read that in ’64, if you wanted a Bonneville or Grand Prix, it was pretty much ‘special order/imported from the U.S.’ and quite pricey with the pre-auto pact tariffs added onto it.
I like the blend of Pontiac/Chevrolet interior and hardware pieces, too!
Here is a nice example: my Partner’s 1964 Pontiac Laurentian 2-door “post” sedan, in Meadow green metallic. It has an 327 V-8, with 2-speed powerglide automatic. It is one awesome ride. This was his first car his father bought him, when it was a good used car in 1966. He has kept it restored after all these years!
Very nice!
This car for sale?
I always liked those plainer ’61 – ’64 Pontiacs. They had a nice clean style to them.
Not a Pontiac, just a rebadged Chevrolet