johnn875 posted this Ford LTD, presumably an FE from around 1984-1986, but I’ve been know to screw up on my Aussie Fords. What caught my eye right away was its very obvious platform stretch (from the Falcon) at the rear, which that small Falcon rear door and dead space behind it make all too obvious. That’s just a wee bit painful to the eye. Still, it beats an American LTD from 1984!
Is that an LTD or a Fairlane?
It is an LTD, but not an FE model which had wider headlights which met the sides of the slightly-reworked grille. If it had the original alloy wheels I would be able to identify which model it was but I’ll guess it is a 1982-84 FD with later model wheels to replace the original metric TRX rims, instead of the 1979-82 FC model.
Originally the LTD had a 4-bbl 351 Cleveland with FMX trans and Borg Warner diff (4-pinion, 28 spline version), 4 wheel disc brakes, variable ratio steering, and all the goodies inside including air con, power leather seats, etc. The FD model had the option of the 250ci 6cyl with the Honda-designed alloy head, subsequently fuel-injected. During 1983 the V8 was dropped.
The Fairlanes had a full-width plastic egg-crate style grille between quad lights in these models. Apart from different tail lights, the other external difference for the LTD is the louvres in the sixth window (behind the rear doors) which the Fairlane did not have.
They sold around 7500 LTDs between 1979-84, demonstrating that dropping the previous extra-stretched 121″ WB was the right decision. The brochure actually promotes the improved maneuverability this gives! Quite a down-size, the new model car was over 13″ shorter and around 400lb lighter compared with the 76-79 model.
Can’t quite tell from the photo, but if the rear suspension is leaf springs it’s FC, if they’re coils it’s FD. Apparently the side window louvres were released on the FD too, and other supposed FD upgrades were standard sunroof and electric front seats, ciggie lighters in the rear doors, and the asymmetrical steering wheel. I’d debate some of those (except the steering wheel!), will dig out my brochures and have a look.
Yep I thought of the rear suspension change last night. The louvres were on the FC also, my old man used to have one, together with the electric seats and I’m pretty sure the rear door lighters too. The FC wheel was symmetric, and better for it!
Yes, I was pretty sure the louvres and electric seats were on the FC too. Can’t trust everything on the net lol! I have the brochures, I’ll dig em out in the weekend. The assymetrical steering wheel was also in my grandparents’ XE Ghia. Very, very strange design!
I’d much rather have an American LTD than this awkward-looking compact.
Not if you drove both you wouldnt Steven
Does the Australian model have a softer suspension, longer wheelbase, and a bench seat? If not, I think I’ll pass. I admit I’ve never driven either of these, but from my own 1984 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight and my father’s 2007 Mercury Grand Marquis, I can use context clues to guess that I would really like the way the 1984 LTD drives. I’ve heard plenty about how Australian Fords handle better than the Panther cars, but since I consider handling to be a dirty word (absolutely unnecessary on 99% of American roads and detrimental to a comfortable ride and safe driving techniques) I’ll have none of that. When I want to go around corners I’ll drive a sports car, when I want to get there without aches and bruises I’d rather have a car that doesn’t handle at all. Plus, not even the best Lamborghini is as much fun as taking a wallowy American land yacht around corners at high speeds. Body roll? Yes please.
Of course, this is all assuming we are talking about the LTD Crown Victoria. If this is about the Fox-based LTD that’s a different story altogether, though I’d still probably take the American one.
Good handling is detrimental to safe driving techniques? Uhh, okay.
Not by nature, but in practice it can be. The better a car handles, the safer you feel driving it, and the more risks you are willing to take (it’s the same with poor handling high power muscle cars too). You never hear about Buicks or Rolls Royces getting wrapped around a tree, it’s always sporty little Preludes and M3s. Sure good handling can be helpful during an emergency maneuver, but when given a car that is glued to the road and has quick acceleration and braking, most people are going to drive much more dangerously.
Hahaha pure comedy gold, I love it when someone does the “stupid fool routine” with such earnestness, great stuff Steven absolutely hilarious, maybe you could regale us with some safe driving tips hahahaha awesome buddy, the best laugh I’ve had all day.
Do you by any chance work for NHTSA or the IIFHS?
Oh, you’re one of those people who can be blamed for the crap that the American car industry turned out.
Quick! Deliver the Brougham antidote! Steven has fallen under the trance of Broughamian propaganda of Tom Klockau & Richard Bennett! Save him!
No need for propaganda, all I had to do was test drive my 1984 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight and I was a Brougham convert. Call it “American crap” all you want, but it will still be floating down the road decades after your precious BMWs and Audis have fallen apart and been sent to the crusher. I don’t judge a car on lateral g or presumed build quality, I judge it on how well it does what it was meant to do. My car may have an incredibly cheap-looking dashboard and be impossible to parallel park, but it’s practically unkillable and as a LUXURY CAR (meaning roomy and comfortable) it is perfect. Today’s “luxury” cars are just overpriced sports sedans, small and uncomfortable with lots of gadgets. I’ll stick with my Brougham. But please, keep insulting American cars. Seriously, I mean it, you’re just helping me. As it is I could pick up a late 60s/early 70s Cadillac in near-show condition for as low as $5000. I’d love to see prices go even lower.
Also, nothing will make you hate a “driver’s car” more than being forced to be a passenger in one. About ten years ago my father traded his horribly unreliable 1997 Audi Cabriolet for a base model 2002 Volvo S60 loaner car. Not even the S60R, jut the regular base S60 with the 2.4l inline five. All he needed was the manual transmission and he went crazy, always driving it like a Porsche. Constantly going 15mph over the speed limit, taking turns way too fast, stomping on the gas and brake pedal, and just generally driving like a maniac. Sure, part of it was probably a midlife crisis, recalling the MGC he owned in high school (yes, C), and he’s never been a very good driver to begin with, but while he fondly recalls how much fun his S60 was all the rest of us can recall is the bumpy ride and constantly being thrown from side to side. The difference between the S60 and his current Grand Marquis is incredible. He still drives over the speed limit and occasionally takes corners too fast, but you can actually read or drink something when he drives now. Oddly enough, I have the exact opposite problem, whenever I drive his Grand Marquis I end up driving like a maniac because it is so much more responsive than my Oldsmobile.
What shrinks call “Risk Compensation” is what Steven is talking about. Same has been said about ABS brakes & other electronic driving aids; the more a car is able to compensate for driver error, the more aggressive some drivers are likely to be. Not *always* true, of course.
This is why statistical claims about some car models being safer than others are clouded by the possibility that different personalities drive each, which tend to tolerate different levels of risk.
LTDs and wagons shared the longer wheelbase and all used sedan doors, These were incredibly low volume cars compared to US models so no stretched doors and no V8 engines either just the fuel injected 6. Ford failed to get its V8s to meet emmision standards required for the new in 87 unleaded gas, GMH went to Nissan RB30 engines to meet those standards though the Nissan engine was dumped for the buick V6 for the VN series. The Fairlane has a cheaper looking grille
I liked the american 84 LTD.
Having to climb over the door latch mechanism to enter and exit the back seat doesn’t strike me as a very luxurious feature.
I can’t find any photos to confirm, but I think the door latch is at the very rear end of the door – not an issue
Here’s a pic – it’s an XF Falcon, but the lower door’s the same, and the latch is right at the rear as you thought John:
Oops, better actually add the pic!
That is a hideous door panel. Looks almost as inviting to touch as the ones on my grandmothers ’79 Chevette.
All the better for cleaning the vomit off as a cab or police car! Seriously though, these were a grained, slightly-soft vinylley plastic, not actually that bad, my ute door trims are similar. The other big market for the base model was as company cars, where back seats aren’t often used, usually private buyers would purchase a higher-level trim with either cloth inserts or full cloth/velour trim and storage bins.
As John says, they aren’t that bad. Ford was quite proud of them at the time, featuring them in the brochures – and explaining that the velour-covered Ghia ones were made the same way. They were injection moulded, with a similar sort of texture to the Ford Sierra (and thus maybe the Merkur XR4Ti).
The same panels were used on all the levels, just differently trimmed as John notes. The higher levels had a much larger interior handle with a console for the power windows/locks and lighter. On the rear door this console covered the hole for the lower spec’s manual window winder; on the front door the winder was a lot lower, so there was a round plug covering the hole and trimmed to match the rest of the door trim.
Top pic below is the LTD’s fully-velour version of the door panel; below it is the Fairmont’s cloth-inserted version. I spent a lot of time in an XF Ghia with the fully-velour trim, and loved the softness and warmth of it. But hey, I’m different lol!
I kind of like this. That is a seriously low beltline in this car.
Yes, amazingly low. I commented on another post here recently about the Aussie XD-XF Falcon (and Fairmont/Fairlane/LTD derivatives) and their incredibly low beltline (although the size of the glass area is accentuated by the world’s flattest roof too).
I speak from personal childhood experience too, as my grandparents bought a 1984 XE Fairmont Ghia and then a 1986 XF Fairmont, both new. I was 9 when they bought the XE, and it was the first car I’d ever been in that I could actually see out of. Both were superb touring cars for their visibility. Later on when I was old enough to drive, I often got to drive a friend’s Dad’s 1987 XF Fairmont Ghia, and the visibility was just as awesome from the driver’s seat as the back! That and the wall-to-wall velour made it the perfect car to my 16 year old mind! An XF Ghia’s still on my bucket list of cars to own.
I’ll take the American thank you. This makes the Fox LTD look like a supermodel.
I cannot find the wheelbase for the FE. It looks it would have copious rear legroom. Some sites say the Fox’s was 105.5″, but that’s about the same as the Fairmont! I would’ve thought Dearborn would split the difference between the Fairmont & Crown Vic, to maybe 109″ or so.
The FE looks like a limo version of the late-70’s Euro Granada. BTW, does anyone have comparative road-test stats so we can get a general idea of their relative performance?
The colour looks the same as my old Mk2 Granada(UK) and there’s a family resemblance.I’ll have the Aussie iron for UK roads thanks.
The Aussie Falcon was designed around the same time as the Mk 2 Granada, and up close some of the details are virtually identical – though in the end the only part shared with the Mk 2 Granada is the triangular front indicators on the XD Falcon version only (the LTD is derived from the XD Falcon, but doesn’t have the Granada-shared indicators).
I think the Mk2 Granada had independent rear suspension. Am I right, & did the Falcon use that too?
I wish Ford would get around to putting IRS on the Mustang. I hear the Mustang & Falcon might become a common RWD platform.
The Falcon had leaf springs till 82, then changed to coils with a Watts linkage. IRS came in 1998 for some models. I hear you on the common platform – back to the future really.
Neil, I remember reading last decade that the Australian AU Falcon’s IRS rear fits the ’94-’04 Mustang without too much effort. The AU IRS was designed to bolt into the same mounts as the leaf springs on the AU wagon and the coils/Watt’s Link on the low-spec AU sedan; apparently it matched the Mustang’s mounting points pretty closely (and yes, I know the Mustang is Fox based whereas the AU was still sharing floorpan hardpoints with the ’66 Falcon/Mustang).
The same article alleged that the Mustang’s Watt’s link rear was actually designed by Ford Australia for Ford USA, and is effectively the same as the Falcon]s was. Can’t remember where I read that (Wheels magazine maybe), and have no idea if it’s actually true or not! (And I can’t imagine any Mustang owner would go the hassle of finding a rare AU IRS to find out either!)
116″ wheelbase, up 5″ from the normal sedan.
Wow; that’s only 1.7″ shy of the Town Car (“Town Yacht” as I like to call it)!
Yes, the door is awkward, but I have to admire that huge piece of glass in the c-pillar.
The 1983 to 1986 American Fox LTD used the same wheelbase as the Fairmont and 1981 to 1982 Granada.
Thanks much! So Wiki is misleading; it claims the Fox Granada had a longer wheelbase, yet gives no figures. Maybe the Fairmont’s rear legroom (except the cramped Futura) was so good that the space allowed by a longer wheelbase might’ve upstaged the Panther & stolen sales from it. Or else Ford was too cheap to lengthen the floor pan etc.
Now Wiki says the Euro Mk2. Granada w/b was 109″ but shorter overall. Thus I will guess that the FE LTD had a longer wheelbase than the Foxes. Whether this translated into more legroom, however, still isn’t clear because of other unknowns (e.g., seats close to the floor require more longitudinal space for the same legroom).
German Granada styling. Proven Falcon mechanicals. What’s not to like?
Every generation of Australian Ford Fairlane/LTD since 1972 had the wheelbase extended the same way.
The closest factory production example from Detroit is the first generation LWB Dodge Grand Caravan / Plymouth Grand Voyager.
The 1973-79 LTD’s were stretched beyond the Fairlane’s 116″ wheelbase (with the extra length behind the doors), and the extra length in this case up to 121″ was all in the rear doors.
Hard to tell from this angle but that could be an FC LTD (79-82) based on the XD Falcon. I remember these from the early 80s.
Too bad then Ford Australia abandonned the 302C (an Aussie only engine destroked version of the 351 Cleveland) after 1982, that LTD could had been a interesting sleeper….
my 89 mercury grand marquis will eat this aussie ltd dinner.i lived in melbourne for afew years&seen several of those with very low power compare to their american cousins.my grand marquis came with 302&after auto trans went bad around 240k miles,i have had my mechanic to put a freshly rebuilt manual trans from a mustang in&i can go up to 55MPH with second gear with abseloutly no hesitations.U.S.A-1.
Your Mercury may have had more power but the LTD is a lot lighter so I would imagine they would about line ball in a straight line however when it came to a corner there would no match.
The Falcon/Fairlane/LTD of that era had an excellent chassis that was engineered for high speed cruising the back roads of Australia.
Another thing worth mentioning, tho not a criticism, is the styling difference between the two cars. The Mercury already looks a generation behind the featured car and the 89 Fairlane/LTD moved the styling ahead even more.
A vehicle like the Mercury would have been simply unacceptable for our market for those two reasons alone.
Go on then, how much power does a 1989 Grand Marquis have?
for a country that a decade earlier was making a piece of junk&unreliable cars like leyland p76 or 80s lonsdale satellite(NZ),this was quiet an achievment.bottom line is in any country that you see more japanese cars than domestic cars on the road which means local car makers have in fact failed to make better &more reliable cars.(like oz,usa&more)here in states atleast we do not use toyota camrys as our police cars.
arj, I’m not sure which NZ you refer to, but it’s not the one at the bottom of the earth that I live in.
* Although sold here, the P76 was Australian designed and built.
* The Lonsdale was nothing to do with NZ and was never sold here. It was a rebadged Mitsubishi Sigma built for the UK market by Mitsubishi Australia (and named after the Australian suburb where the factory was) to get around a voluntary import quota which limited Japanese-manufactured imports to 11 per cent of the UK market.
* Local car manufacturing in any market is bound by economies of scale. In the 1980s, NZ’s population was about 3.3 million people (and 100 million sheep). Sheep can’t work in manufacturing industries or buy finished products, so it was up to the humans to do so. And the simple reality is we have far too small a population base to support indigenous car manufacturing – not to mention all the R&D involved!
* More Japanese cars are on our road because we drive on the left in RHD cars, thus used JDM cars (which are effectively worthless in Japan after 5-8 years) are very easy to import cheaply and sell at a profit. It means we have a huge range of makes and models, from the common to those never usually seen outside Japan (eg Mitsuoka). We also have an enormous range of new vehicles sold here, including many not seen in the States from Europe, Australian, Korea and China.
* So despite being too small to support local car manufacturing, we have what’s probably the largest and most diverse range of makes and models in the world.
* Also, Toyota Camry police cars? Not in New Zealand! Our standard police cars are, and have been for over 20 years, the Holden Commodore (aka Pontiac G8 and Chevrolet SS). Occasionally the police will trial other makes/models in tiny numbers (we had 2-litre-turbo Nissan Silvia highway pursuit cars here in 2001), but the standard and default car is the Commodore.
To be fair the P76 was quite reliable. The drivetrain and engine were bulletproof although the build quality could be ordinary.
The things that killed it were union strikes, questionable styling and being owned by Leyland.
In fact the P76 has attained a similar status to the Edsel, an icon of its time
But not unreliable like say…. a Vega or Olds Diesel
You people really do not understand Australian driving conditions do you. The out of town roads are straight but not flat the bitumen is bumpy blacksoil is the best driving surface Aussie has and while your Oldsmobile might give you a nice ride as you wobble along at 70 mph hows it go at that speed on dirt or gravel coz I shit you not Fairlanes and their ilk are comfortable at speed on most dry surfaces. Handle? NO not very well at all, once you have that length and weight going sideways? I can do it can you?Arj I*’d take you on dude Newell hwy from the Qld border bring your Mercury if you are still at wide open throttle after 5 miles I’d be very surprised your bouncy POS wont stay on the road but I used to commute on the Narrabri-Coonabarrabran section at WOT in a Ford try dodging a roo at 100+mph or even better hit one, Aussie Fords survive that sort of treatment your results may differ.
You really don’t understand the Panther platform do you. It was designed from the get go to be a police car. That means that it had to cover the same proving grounds as 2wd pickups. It also means that it was expected to be able to handle jumping curbs and going through medians on freeways at speed as well as be able to handle extended driving at over 100MPH. Unlike the B-bodies from GM the Panthers used the same frame for the police cars as for the civilian versions. The chassis changes were limited to the springs, bushings and sway bars with the police versions being 20-40% stiffer and in the case of the springs longer so the vehicle sat ~1″ higher. They also got a different friction material on the brake pads/shoes. So I’m pretty certain the Panther cars would hold up just fine to your roads.
Looks like Bryce meant to reply to Steven re the soft-riding, sloppy-handling Oldsmobile rather than arj and his manual Grand Marquis (did they come from that factory with a manual?)
55mph in second reminds me – These LTD’s had a pretty tall diff ratio for fuel economy purposes. Looking at the specs posted below they don’t seem right as much newer Falcons with the 4sp auto (same 1st gear ratio) do 55-60mph in first gear with a shorter diff ratio but revving higher.
On automobile-catalog.com they have 1st gear 91km/h / 57mph, 2nd 149 / 93 and top 219 / 136. The last bit is wrong as I don’t believe they would pull 5000rpm in top gear but would easily do 200km/h.
Nope no Panther ever came from the factory with a manual trans but quite a few people have swapped them in. The Panthers came with a number of different axle ratios over the years, as tall as 2.73 to 1 (IIRC) in Boxes to as short as 3.55 to 1 in a couple of years of Aero HPP equipped models, later P71s and Marauders. The funny thing is that in the real world it doesn’t make a real difference in MPG. I’ve have/had Aero Panthers with 2.93, 3.08, 3.23 and 3.55 to 1 gears and they’ve all returned right around 19 MPG in my every day driving and about 26 on road trips.
At first glance, I thought this was some old Benz I’d forgotten about. Then I saw the German Granada in it. Then I thought, whiskey tango foxtrot?
I kind of wish the Camry in the background were a little closer to this car so I could get an idea of how large (or small it is). If it is truly 116″ wb, then I would guess it’s not much larger than my Pontiac G6.
Regardless, you have to admire the DLOs on this car, in concert with the blocky styling, I’m quite sure anyone could see well enough to parallel park this car with little or no neck-craning effort.
I wish I could say that about my G6.
DLO’s?
DayLight Opening
Overall length is 200″
Yes, they were stunningly easy to parallel park.
It looks like a Peugeot replica by Chrysler.
I always LOVED the tail lights on these. They are almost pitch black with a white stripe through them. Oddly I have never seen them lit up. Then, they got replaced with boring orange/red tail lights…
+1. Although smoked lights usually result in a police stop here in NZ now; I wonder if there was a change in regulations that outlawed them.
Well the central strip is body color. The black effect was by having thin vertical black stripes over the lens, so that effectively half the lens was black but the plastic transmitting the light was actually ‘normal’ (red/amber/clear).
I’ll pass on this model thanks. And I’m saying that as a confirmed Fairlaine/LTD fan!
Here are the engine/performance stats of the FC:
5.8 V8
Bore and stroke: 102 x 89 mm
Power: 149kW at 4300rpm
Torque: 415Nm at 3000rpm
Pushrod overhead valve, 2 valves per cylinder
Fuel system: Carter four barrel carburettor
Compression ratio: 8.9:1
Performance:
(Fairlane 5.8L sedan, three speed auto):
Top speeds in gears
1st: 75km/h
2nd: 120km/h
3rd: 180km/h
0-100km/h: 11.9 seconds
Standing 400m: 17.3 seconds
Dimensions:
Length: 5024mm
Width: 1868mm
Height: 1394mm
Wheelbase: 2946mm
Front track: 1559mm
Rear track: 1527mm
Kerb weight:1697kg
Turning circle:12.7m
Fuel tank: 80 litres
Boot space: 460 litres
Interior dimensions:
Front headroom: 956mm
Rear headroom: 951mm
Front shoulder room: 1509mm
Rear shoulder room: 1509mm
Front hip room: 1510mm
Rear hip room: 1480mm
Front legroom: 1047mm
Rear legroom: 1068mm Fairlane/LTD
That’s shockingly slow for a 200hp 351 powered, 3800 pound car.
Heck I clocked my 5.0 powered 145hp 3900 pound ’77 Chevelle the other day at 11 seconds 0-100km/h and the quarter mile is about the same as your info says.
Then again, Ford wasn’t too keen on building HP in their engines, even my Explorer’s 4.0 v6 is underwhelming compared to Dodge’s 3.9 and GM’s 4.3
Dragging at traffic lights is not for these cars there were lighter bodyshells if you wanted to go fast this was the luxury liner.
They had a pretty tall rear end in them.
Diff was 2.77 ratio says the 1981 World Car Guide from the Italian Automobile Club.
Here’s a pic showing the standard wheelbase Falcon sedan, and the long wheelbase Falcon wagon and LTD. Not to scale obviously, and the wagon’s an XF, the SWB sedan’s an XE and the LTD’s an FE, but same structure. The utes and panelvans also shared the longer wheelbase – thus allowing for great economies of scale between the more niche variants of the Falcon.
mmmmm XE Falcon S Pack. One of the best ever Falcons. I reckon I have owned at least seven or eight. Even a photo never fails to bring a smile and memories.
In wagon very nice a good long distance car if 5 speed.
Especially if you are a group of blackfellas or overseas backpackers LOL. The premier touring vehicle of the Outback
That XE is a 2-owner factory manual+EFi with a/c. Nicest I’ve seen in years – it’s for sale on trademe if you wan to reminisce over more pics! http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ford/falcon/auction-576072220.htm
Speaking of rear doors, the wagons look like they use the same rear hatch as the Fox-body wagons, just slanted a bit more.