Every once in a while there will be a pithy comment left at CC that deserves wider appreciation. Here’s on from Patrick, left at my ’55 Chevy CC.
I found a raggedy but rust free 1955 Bel Air wagon back in 1995. 265 P/G. Not a common car back then, today, lots of wagons out there. I got it running, fixed the brakes and drove it as is for a couple of years. I took it apart in 1997 and did a frame off resto/mod. 350, 700R4, front disk brakes. I was happy with it but today I’d simply fix the dents and get a cheapo paint job. I liked it more original.
Ah yes; restomod regret, a not uncommon ailment.
And it can apply to just restoration too. A car can only be original once in its life. And the natural aging process is one to embrace and appreciate. I’ve been a fanatic about this for just about forever, and fortunately in the serious collector market, the appreciation and value of original cars has been strongly increasing. A restored car will never be original, and many restorations have been botched.
As to restomods, what can I add, except that the number of truly original tri-five Chevys must be precariously small. I’m sure many are happy with what they’ve wrought, but unfortunately the end result will typically not age well, and in the future, restomods will likely only lose value. But an original ’55 Chevy wagon; now that’s something to appreciate.
I suspect we haven’t exactly made Patrick feel better, but some life lessons are painful: leave well enough alone.
Back in’96, I did a engine rebuild and some brake work on a ’57 Chev Bel Air. 4 door sedan. It belonged to a co-worker of my sister, whose grandmother bought it new. Did my best to keep it original, and the parts I had to change I put in a box and gave them back to the owner. And those early small blocks (this was a 283) had a completely different oil pump than the ’58 and later engines.
I find the red wagon in this photo extraordinarily appealing.
For anyone considering making significant alterations to their car, take many before pics. And have the changes you are considering, rendered by someone in Photoshop. Get quality prints, and live with them for a month (or two). See, if what you are planning, is what you really want.
I always do this myself, when considering repainting, or a new set of tires or wheels. It helps make your final decision much easier.
It’s difficult to judge without seeing before ‘n’ after pics. While you’re never going to make a 50’s car feel like a modern car, I feel like the list of modifications are more than reasonable. A 350 fundamentally isn’t much different than the optional 265 that would’ve been optional, an overdrive transmission makes it more drivable in modern traffic, as do the disc brakes.
Now we have to wonder if this was all done in a tasteful manner of course. A build being done in 1997 makes one immediately think of the all the trends prevelant in 50s car restomods back then; chrome sawblade wheels, burlap upholstrey and so on.
Is every restomod/restoration done well? Of course not. And of course, there’s value in originality, but in my mind, increasing functionality so you don’t have to deal with wayward brakes and iffy steering makes one more inclined to actually take their car out instead of letting it sit in the garage.
Always a slippery slope with this .
Apparently I don’t mind ‘hair shirts’ so I can and do drive oldies on a regular basis .
That being said there’s a lot to be gained from up grading the brakes and suspension .
I too am one who prefers an original to anything else most of the time .
Far too many modified vehicles are lowered of have other cosmetic changes that make the vehicle worse to drive and accelerate wear greatly .
I have been taken to task for pointing this out but it’s a sad fact : most modified vehicles get sold on in short order .
-Nate
When I restored my car back in 1993 there wasn’t really a name yet for what I REALLY wanted to do. That is, basically put my car on a Corvette drivetrain. That never happened but as the years have progressed it is safe to say it has turned into a resto-mod. I have never thought I made a mistake by not keeping it original or restoring it to original. It was never any sort of special model, just about as average as you could get. Plus the original engine was long gone and it needed a lot of rust repair.
And even though I painted it a VERY 1994 color (teal), I think it is still appreciated by most and I have always thought it was a great color.
Present
If it helps, it may have been a little lighter but teal was an original 1967 color option on it. Looks straight-up blue in the picture, though. Either way it does look good.
I’m 100% with Paul on honest wear/originality; in fact CC is one of the few places where I could find a home. I also like “typical” cars of a certain period that are not necessarily “hot collectables”.
When this topic comes up, I think of this Comet. I really like the “before”; I don’t appreciate the “after”. The complaint was “It won’t go over 80 MPH.” So what? Neither will a Model T Ford or a 1924 Essex, but that doesn’t mean I have to throw a big V-8 in it! Any originality/nostalgic charm this car once had is gone. And so much time and expense to make it that way!
I guess my opinion is in the minority since the comments on this modified car are all positive. And car shows are filled up with stuff like this. So I’m just going to keep on doing my own thing–keeping cars “tastefully” and “practically” original.
http://www.myrideisme.com/Blog/full-tilt-built-comet-street-rod/
That Comet looks ridiculous…imo.
You could improve the brakes and suspension if desired without slamming it to the ground and wrecking the handling… so dumb.
In this case it looks like they started with a nice solid car and cut it up. Often, especially here in the northeast, modded cars like this tend to start out as rust buckets the logic being why pay for good original structure you’re going to cut up and throw away anyway.
There are some cars for which street rodding is the only alternative to the crusher. This wasn’t one of them. At least it’s purple and not boring black like the thumbnail looks.
I tend to draw a line between true patina (i.e. wear and tear from actual use) and major deterioration from abandonment like rusted-out bodies, suspensions, and such on a car that’s been sitting out in a backyard or field for years. In the latter case when a car is too far gone to be safely driven, I’m fine with restoring it (although I prefer to reserve mods to relatively hidden items like brakes).
It also saves a ton of money to “leave one alone” and fix what only needs to be fixed … especially with the higher prices of everything today.
Here’s my “weekly driver” after I did a little maintenance on it this summer. I refer to my 29-year old Mercury Grand Marquis LS as a “nice twenty-footer.”
And after approximately 180,000+ miles … I don’t know for sure as the plastic odometer gear mechanism broke last year … it runs pretty good. I have a ten-item punch list that is housed in a note file on my phone … as I fix an item I cross it off … it’s a good system and works for me.
And the odometer repair will be addressed next summer when I repair the broken gears in the power window motors. I find it convenient to keep the repairs in their respective “groups” … interior, exterior, engine, etc.
It’s a restoration … one project at a time.
Hmm…to modify, or not to modify?
Driving a 51 year old car as your only daily ride in modern traffic works for me, but there are some things I have modified, mostly for safety and drivability reasons. They don’t change the basic change the basic character of my old VeeDub Ghia, though.
Examples are: alternator replacing generator and adding power point for phone. Means I can use my GPS, etc. Inertia reel seatbelts instead of static. Better headlamps will be added, but not LEDs. As my motor is a little down on compression on none pot it will be treated to better heads, carb and exhaust, plus bigger sump and oil filter (yes, old VWs don’t have one of those) to increase oil capacity and help cooling. It will only give a little more power, but will not have to be driven so hard and durability should be helped.
I have also lowered the front end, really helping with freeway stability as well as looks.
A tach and oil temp/pressure gauges are coming – I want to be aware of any problems as they occur.
The controversial bit for CCers will be the 17″Fuchs – not everybody’s cup of tea, but a classic wheel design from that era that ties in with VW history. They interchange with the stock wheels anyway and the much better rubber available in this size than the now rare original 165/15 fitment.
At the end of the day it is my car and I enjoy playing with it and changing it up once in a while, but I don’t want to turn it into something else.
With the Corvettes, I kept my ’66 pretty stock apart from a leather wheel, but did move the steering to the quicker ratio and same for the clutch (all adjustable on these). We upgraded the cooling with hi performance radiator and electric fans to cope with traffic jams. The best mods were a composite rear leaf spring and Bilstein dampers with decent radial tires, plus setting the suspension geometry up with a race shop. Resulted in a really safe, great handling car I enjoyed for 20 years. My ’63 will be getting front discs and decent tires plus Bilsteins so that it can be enjoyed regularly. Better headlamps and some seatbelts, too.
I tend to use my cars pretty enthusiastically and want them to be safe, reliable and everyday usable. I don’t want a show vehicle, but appreciate seeing totally original vehicles as well as modified ones.
I guess at the end of the day it comes down to “you do you”!
Huey ;
Air cooled VW’s never came with 165 tires .
They were 155’s all they way to the end, even Super Beetles – go look it up .
If you did regular 3,000 mile hot oil changes and removed and cleaned the oil intake screen every time, the original engines easily lasted 150,000 miles .
Adding a ‘dog house’ oil cooler (this can be done even to the lowly 1200 C.C. 40HP engine) your car will love you long time .
If you add better cylinder heads don’t forget to look at the carby’s main jets, many cares still have the incorrect 125’s , a 1600 engine runs best with a #130 main jet .
-Nate
I just happen to be getting the ’69 Ghia back on the road. While previous owners have made mods that I am not going to change to make a 100% original car, I’m keeping it as stock as possible. Unfortunately, some internal engine parts for a 1500cc single port engine are essentially unobtanium. Still, original external appearance of the engine is there, right down to the original style fuel pump.
I just happen to be getting the ’69 Ghia back on the road. While previous owners have made mods that I am not going to change to make a 100% original car, I’m keeping it as stock as possible. Unfortunately, some internal engine parts for a 1500cc single port engine are essentially unobtanium. Still, original external appearance of the engine is there, right down to the original style fuel pump.
That’s a nice one Nikita ! .
I feel for you , I like single port VW engines best, they always last longer .
Lots of hard to find ‘Ghia parts , always it was so .
Watch the original fuel pump, after a lot of thermal cycles the brass nipples often get loose and pop out allowing gasoline to soak and ignite…..
I’ve seen a few fixes/patches but they always look weird .
Mind the compression ratio too ! .
-Nate
Fuel pump is not original, but a hard to find Brosol reproduction.
It really depends, originality in of itself is a state of mind; tires, shocks, brake pads, wipers, plug wires, all variety of hoses, belts, carburetors, bearings are guaranteed replaced or rebuilt on just about anything of age, often with not original specification equipment. Then there’s fender benders and whatnot that may have occurred early in the cars life when the original owner had them, cracked windshields, bulbs, etc. There may well be 50 year old cars out there where they’ve literally never been driven since new, and all that equipment truly is original, but you would not want to drive them now! I agree with the embrace of natural aging, but that doesn’t mean you don’t change your hairstyle, wardrobe and accessories as time passes.
I never really liked restomods in the sense of plucking a perfectly good car and using it as a blank canvas for some self proclaimed automotive “artist” to churn out from a shop on TV, and don’t particularly like the fashion that has been the “restomod” in the post-Foose world. But if it’s your car you can do anything you want, but YOU should be the one doing most of the work to get it there in my opinion. “Built, not bought” is a philosophy that applies to even built cars themselves, doing your own work is a bonding experience, and it makes you appreciate the car more for what is where maybe your grand vision naturally tones itself down. To me modifying a car is no different than any natural wear and tear from driving it, you’re part of that car’s history too, it shouldn’t stop once it gets into your hands to the point you’re preserving the spiderwebs from it sitting in the previous owners property.
The regret I believe comes from the chase being better than the catch to use a cliche idiom, the challenging work, the hunting for parts, the tweaking and massaging seems like a chore in the moment but that’s the real high you get from building a project car, especially as you experience the fruits of your labors in real time. Some of my favorite memories with my Cougar were driving it into the seediest places around the Chicago area to find junkyard parts, or a Craigslist/marketplace buy for it, every part has a story! Restomods whether you build them yourself or not have a finality to them, which I think can be interpreted as regret, even if you like the outcome well enough.
Further thoughts, many cars became unoriginal going all the way back to when they were new or a few years old, “day 2” mods in car parlance. These cars spent many of their glory years wearing a set of mag wheels, engine upgrades painted on stripes or whatever, and very often you see cars like these now a days only in their “before” pictures in a scrap book at a car show, while the vehicle now is showroom restored. Many unrestored old cars are like this to one degree or another, so if you keep it as is, you’re actually keeping it modded. Ironically now if you chose to “restore” it, not to showroom new but preserving the non-original configuration it had for most of its life, just freshened, it would probably be inaccurately labeled as a restomod.
Well said Matt. I think there is a wide gap between 100% all original and restomod, and somewhere in the middle is a good compromise.
I’m facing this dilemma with my own Mustang. While it’s only 16 model years old at this point (a 2007), so not a true classic, this 15 year old car after 184K has some seriously warn out seats. The original leather (if you want to call it that) is shot on the driver’s seat, and going on the passenger seat. The original color is a light gray. The door panels have leather inserts that quite frankly, I am tired of regluing. I’m in the queue to have the interior redone.
Call me crazy, but I love this car. It used to be my DD, but it’s now just for pleasure driving. I’ve given it everything it needs mechanically, and it runs just fine. It’s only a V6, but I want to keep that part all original too should anything happen to it, and would likely rebuild the one I have, rather than do the typical V8 swap thing.
My dilemma (other than spending WAY too much on the old girl) is this:
The seats are obsolete on this car. I can not get the original covers anymore.
The custom shop can make it look really close to original, and even make them out of REAL leather, as opposed to what Ford calls leather.
But I have a cool option available at no additional cost over the original light gray. A Charcoal and Light Gray two tone, that on the rendering and in my mind’s eye would look fantastic. But it won’t be original anymore.
At this point the only “customization” I’ve done to the old girl is that I installed sequential turn signals, which were not available on my model year.
Am I hurting its future value by not keeping it all original? Should I even care? The way I see it, although I’ll never see the investment in the interior as a financial gain, it’s a lot better than torn seats.
At least the paint is all original. And like Randy says about his Marquis above, it’s a “nice twenty-footer”. I’m ok with that.
Here’s a recent picture (July 1 of this year) of the 15+ year old filly. (The 300S in the picture was a rental car I had when the Civic was at the body shop at the time.)
To me the only value that matters is the value to myself, if there’s something you really want it’s an investment in your happiness.
Beyond that I think Mustangs inherently allow for a lot of leeway when it comes to originality, Ford practically designed them to be customized, and I happen to have the Ford Racing catalog from 2007 to prove it! haha. 5.0 Fox Mustangs have been appreciating in value recently, with many examples approaching or exceeding $20,000, and despite the rising values many of the cars selling are still often equipped with the aftermarket shifters and flowmaster mufflers that are just kind of givens with those cars. V6 Mustangs aren’t likely to be big collectors items(even first gen 6 cyl mustangs are pretty modest values unless they’re fastbacks) but a nicer set of seats and sequential taillights are things someone who wants a Mustang to have a Mustang might be attracted to over one that doesn’t.
Really when it comes to modifications effecting value I think what it comes down to is how well they’re installed, like say if there there a rats nest of wires for the sequencers, or the new seat covers wrinkly and baggy. If the execution is as good as factory or better I don’t think it matters nearly as much as people say it does. Modifications that hurt value do so because a lot of people(both DIYers and professionals) are frankly hacks and their poor workmanship is obvious, and this is sometimes the fault of poor quality aftermarket parts that legitimately require some hackage to install.
Other option I’d consider if I was you is finding seats out of a newer S197 Mustang to swap in entirely, seats up to 2014 should bolt/plug right in (possibly even S550)
I thought about that Matt. My Dad’s 2014 V6 with the Pony Package had a really awesome interior.
As to the sequential turn signals, these were plug & play and made from OEM wiring harness parts from a company called Web Electric Products. The only added wire is basically a cable that plugs in via an RJ45 connector at each end that somehow stops the lights from sequencing when you step on the brakes. This makes the mod look even more OEM. And you can’t see this wire as it runs between the taillights under the plastic panel that covers them.
I’ve see some of this guy’s interior work, as he was more than proud to show it off. While a little pricey, I think it’s gonna look great. When I pulled up out front and saw a Lambo and two Ferraris out front, it gave me pause that just maybe I was in the wrong place, but I felt a little better when I walked inside and saw a ’62 Impala being redone. I got tipped off to this guy by the owner of this ’56 Belair at the local Cars and Coffee. His interior was done there and it looks amazing…
I think you should do the interior the way you described- you will be giving it nicer materials than it originally had and it will please you. Enjoy!
Rick, do what makes you happy with the car. If you don’t like the seats or want to get them reupholstered because the wear and tear is getting to you, do it. From the sounds of it, you don’t have any plans to sell the car anytime soon, so make it more enjoyable for you. Like Matt mentions, Mustangs tend to have more leeway when it comes to light modifications. Ultimately, I doubt that it would hurt the value in anyway, if anything having new upholstery will probably add a bit of value (but less than the cost to redo the interior).
The whole originality thing has gone a bit too far IMO. it used to be that if someone had an old car, but did upgrades to maintain it’s condition such as fixing the upholstery or minor body and paint work, it wasn’t a big deal. Now, its seems to be sacrilegious. People would rather keep a car’s originally ratty interior with foam spilling out of the seats and seat springs poking through or a rusted out ratty paint job just to say it’s original. I appreciate original cars, but, I like functional cars that suit my needs and make me happy even more.
All that said, had this ’55 been mine, I probably would have fixed the dents and repainted it like commenter mentions he should have done. At the very least, if I did do a 350 and OD trans swap, I would have kept the original drivetrain to swap back in should I have changed my mind down the road.
Thanks for the replies, Matt, Vince, and Huey.
My wife even thinks I should do it, despite the expense.
I’m just not quite done my Mustang yet.
I am fixing it up to enjoy, not sell right away, so this is more for me than the next guy.
Leave well enough alone was a very difficult lesson for me to learn. My costly and disappointing serial failure to learn it was a running theme in my COAL series. And even though I’m fairly sure I’ve got it through my skull, I don’t a hundred per cent trust myself about it.
Problem is, the lines are blurry and there’s no right answer and the upgrades are magnetic; they tend to drag others along behind them. At best it’s no fun to drive around with useless brakes; headlamps, and seatbelts. Okeh, those are more or less easy to upgrade (though there will have to be some structural reinforcement to make a proper install of better belts…or maybe “just” swap in some seats with inbuilt belts? And probably headlamp circuit upgrades). Breaker points are a fiddly nuisance and good-quality ones are hard to get any more—fine, there are many options for electronic ignition. All of them want to see power cleaner and steadier than supplied by old charging systems, though. In most cases those can be upgraded without much difficulty, too. But nn-year-old wiring harnesses meant to handle the output from a 30-amp alternator don’t want to know about more than that. And so on and on until hey, where’d my ’63 car go?
What are we calling a “resto-mod” here? I don’t see anything wrong or questionable about replacing parts that have outlived their usefulness or lifespan or are just plain worn out. Things such as new brakes, new lights or bulbs, new rubber on the footpedals, a radiator, even a replacement transmission when the original one bites the dust.
To me a “restomod” is a non-new car that has been upgraded with new mechanicals from a newer generation of cars and also had the paint redone most likely with a non-original shade, the interior redone with different materials and patterns than original etc. But replacing or fixing a seat that is worn through to the springs and has chunks of foam spewing from it is not “restoring” or “resto-modding” a car, it’s just keeping it useful going forward or upgrading from points ignition to something electronic that is more reliable and usable etc…Things that a prospective random non-expert buyer would either not notice or realize is a useful upgrade or repair that doesn’t really change anything about the car.
“Restoring” might be taking the whole thing apart and making it like it was when it was first presented to the first buyer. But very different than just fixing something that’s broken or replacing a component with something newer that corrects a prior deficiency in the component.
There’s a whole spectrum between originality and something like that Comet Stephen showed us above. It’s not always ‘this is original, that’s a restomod and that thing is something else again’. There’s an awful lot of space between points A, B and C.
I suspect we all have our own individual point on this spectrum that we feel most comfortable with. A car that’s done in a style that isn’t to our taste may in fact be better built and engineered than our own car. Equally likely (depending on who we are and where we live), it may not.
And our tastes do change with the years. As a kid, I was always into hot rods. 🙂 By the time I got a licence it was ‘practical and stock’, for cost reasons. A few years driving a borrowed car refined my tastes into ‘something a bit smaller and faster’. A few years into owning such a car, I wanted it to handle better, then I wanted a bit more power. It always looked stock even under the hood, I never went for nice wheels even, it just went a useful bit faster and cornered harder than the original. What do you call a car like that? I don’t really care, but I suspect it used to be common.
Back in those days nobody seemed to be concerned about originality for a thirty-year-old car. It was just an old car. Yet now there are magazines dedicated to restored cars of that age, and even original unrestored survivors. Amazingly, given the move to electronic media, they persist, so it’s obviously not a small minority interest.
The Chevy that started us off? I tend to agree with Patrick; they sound like the kind of mods I’d have made back then if I could have afforded, but nowadays I think I’d prefer it original too.
I take the middle path. My Skylark has the original engine, just a warmer cam and dual exhaust. It has what I call sensible upgrades. Disc conversion, faster steering box, 15 inch Buick wheels, halogens and some suspension upgrades.
This is why I like owning and driving old cars that have seen a thing or two; they’re just more fun. Today, a lot of old cars are getting coil overs, LS and 3rd gen Hemi swaps, electronic gauge clusters, custom interiors, 20-inch wheels, $50,000 paint jobs, etc., and I honestly have zero interest in them. I won’t even stop to look, no matter how well done they are, because they’re no longer an old car to me. But they’re obviously popular – look at the big auctions and the print magazines that remain.
I agree with you on much of this Aaron. I think restomods appeal to the same people that buy the retro Challengers and other modern muscle cars. These are people that want to have the looks of an old car, but the driving dynamics, performance and convenience of a modern car. I generally prefer stock or lightly modified cars that are mostly stock, and have no desire to own a restomod. That said, I really can apprecaite the craftsmanship and skills that go into building a well done restomod. The car world is all about variety and I like ’em all.
I too believe if you modernize an old car too much, you don’t have an old car left. That said, I am not opposed to light modifications to increase performance and driving dynamics. I generally only like changes that keep the car appearing stock, are period correct, similar to options available from the factory and don’t make massive changes to it’s architecture or fundamental design. For example, I am okay with increasing spring rates, larger anti-roll bars and quick ratio steering boxes. But tubular control arms, coil over shocks and rack and pinion conversions just change the character of the car too much for me. I also am okay with light engine modifications like a cam, headers, carb or compression upgrade, but once you get into modern aluminum heads, stroker kits and EFI, it’s takes it too far from the original car for me.
I have no problem with minor upgrades either, Vince; my Mustang has a 1″ front sway bar and GT springs that I installed when I was in my early 20s. It also has a Weiand manifold and four-barrel carburetor, but none of that really changes the car’s vibe all that much.
Just my take on the topic: No matter how much more stylish, usable and engaging to drive (safer even…) my car might become after a thorough (say long and costly, with considerable down time) rework, the moment it turns into a mere toy that rather needs to be spared the hardships of weather or traffic, the fun is dead and gone. Cheapness and at least a mindset of disposability (too sad it’s totalled, but hey, it doesn’t owe me a thing!) are key factors to the joy I get from my beaters. Which is not the same as total neglect and abuse. On the contrary, I’m more than willing to pour in resources in maintenance and general staying-ahead-of-things, but only a few pieces at a time. I let things slip with some cars in the past and in hindsight there were times to just let go and move on way earlier.
My mx-5 is stil in for another round of TLC though, and will sure get another set of winter tires with that.
Well put Herman ;
I try to keep my daily drivers tidy and properly maintained .
The older they get the more fooling they need but as you said : if the fun is there it’s well worth the effort .
-Nate
My Mustang gets left out in the elements, too!
Of course this is because I don’t have a garage…
Of course, she always gets cleaned after a snow event…
Well, maybe not every time…
Still, she has the original paint, so there’s that. The old girl gets maintained….
Why no pics of the finished product?
Im commuting at resent in a 66 Hillman wagon its ok in city traffic easily keeps with modern traffic on the motorway its has boosted disc brakes from the factory the only mod has been 14 inch wheels, it was just a good car when originally built,
I used a 63 EH Holden as my daily car in Aussie from 93 or so it was badly out classed by modern traffic single leading shoe drum brakes were almost useless hydramatic trans was sluggish I did replace the trans with a more modern one but the rest remained stock, My Hillman is a much better car all round.
Be thankful yours was an early EH and not a late EJ! At least you had the good motor.
If you’re starting with trash, by all means, make major renovations. Make a shortie! But, gutting an original car is like gutting an old house with a pristine interior–you get something flashier and more serviceable but you lose a lot of soul in the process.
My 1953 Chevy 3100 Series Panel Truck came to me w/o floor pans or a drive line. I went the resto-mod route, any problems w/that?