(Update at end of post) I struggle to remember the last time one of my cars needed a tow. Yes, I had Stephanie pull the ’66 F-100 home with a tow rope hooked to the Forester when the fiber cam gear broke at the dump. And I needed a tow once on the ’77 Dodge Chinook before I was initiated into the cult of Mopar ballast resistors. But in terms of our front-line passenger cars, it would have to go back some twenty-two years, when the ’85 Cherokee’s transfer case stopped transferring.
And yet, here is our barely one-year old Acura TSX up in the air. And I have only myself to blame, in more ways than one.
The other morning I took Stephanie out to the airport. On the way back (thankfully), just as I reached this train crossing right before the intersection, I saw a train approach and the crossing came down. It was a container train, on UP’s main line. And it was doing about 30 mph or so; accelerating as it came out of Eugene.
It’s been a lifelong habit of mine to hate sitting with the engine idling, whether it’s at a road construction stop, a serious traffic tie-up, waiting for someone at the curb, or…a long freight train. I was listening to some nice jazz on Sirius, so I instinctively turned the key to kill the engine, and turned it to what I thought was “Accessory” to keep the music on.( I don’t drive the Acura often).
How long did it take for that freight to roll by? I’m guessing three to four minutes. When the signal arm went up, I turned the key to start the engine, and…it won’t start! All the dash lights flashed on and off in a strobe-like manner, but nothing more. It was so utterly unexpected; like getting hit by a lightning bolt. I simply couldn’t believe this was for real. The idea of the battery going dead in three or four minutes simply wasn’t conceivable, so I assumed it must have been some weird electronic screw-up, maybe from the sequence of my key actions, or?
I turned it totally off, got out and back in, to try to reset everything. Nothing doing. So I put it in Neutral and started pushing it to the side, as I was holding up traffic. Someone got out and helped me ease to the side.
I sat there trying to collect my thoughts. Is it a dead battery or an electronic glitch? It occurred to me that that my seat warmer was on Low, and that I remembered seeing the light for it on while the train went by. So maybe I had it in On; but still. A seat warmer can kill a battery in 3-4 minutes? On a fairly new car? Well, it is actually a 2013, which sat for about a year at the dealer, and they had to jump it to get it started there. So maybe the battery is a bit less than perfectly healthy. But still?
So I called my younger son, who is in current (temporary) possession of a rather ratty Mercedes E430 (W210). I told him to get my big jumper cables and come. When he arrived, I had him point his nose up to the Acura, and I opened the hood of the Mercedes. No battery anywhere to be seen!
Pulled out his owner’s manual, to find that’s it’s under the rear seat, presumably in order to fit that big V8 in there. Will the cables reach? Not initially; so we pushed the Mercedes right up to kiss the Acura. Then they did, they just barely reached. I go to start the Acura…nothing; just the same blinking lights. I wiggled all the connectors and tried again…nothing. OK, so much for that theory. It must be an electronic glitch; I was almost relieved to come to that conclusion.
So I called Acura Road Side Assistance, and they called up a tow truck. And I called the Acura dealer, and told them it was coming in. The Service Adviser suggested it was a dead battery, as “all those electronics” have a heavy drain, and one should never use Accessory to keep them on for any length of time. Three or four minutes? Come on.
“Anyway, I jumped it, and I’ve jumped hundreds of cars in my life.” Silence.
The tow truck dropped it off and I got a ride home from their shuttle. A couple hours later she called: “We did a complete electronic/electric check; everything is ok. The battery was low and needed charging. You can come get it now”.
So I did. No charge ($) for anything, and a car wash to boot. When I got home, I opened the hood again and took another look at that battery; damn, that thing is small. Tiny, even. Yea, I guess a bun warmer might take that down, especially if it wasn’t in the best of shape. Resistance heating is a major drain. But three or four minutes?
And why didn’t the jump work? I don’t know. I know the polarity was right, but for what it’s worth, with the kind of connectors on these modern batteries, it can be tough to get a good connection. If I hadn’t doubted that it was a dead battery, I would have spent more time fiddling with the cable connectors. But because I had serious doubts as to that being the cause, I didn’t.
Lesson learned. Keep the engine on, or if need be, make sure it’s really turned to Off, or at least confirm it’s truly in Accessory. Operator Error. And a waste of the better part of a day.
Update: I decided that original battery was undoubtedly weakened by having sat for most of a year. Rather than get in to it with Acura about a warranty replacement, I just went to Costco and got an Interstate (made by Johnson Controls) 42 month battery with 25% greater capacity for $69.99. If I lived in a really cold climate, I might have looked into a new battery pan to take a bigger battery, but I think this will do the job, hopefully for some time. And realistically, leaving the key in ON with the seat warmers on is not a great idea, even if a few minutes shouldn’t have killed the battery.
Sorry to hear about it. It is odd how the battery in the wagon is located behind the rear seat, as in my TSX sedan it’s in the more normal location under the hood.
The amount of electronics, especially heated seats, in modern cars like this do drain a lot of battery power. I’d say that’s the likely culprit. Earlier this winter, I was experiencing hard starts several times. In fact, while looking for something else in my owner’s manual, I recently came across this page.
I usually leave the seat heater on high, as I like it nice and toasty, but upon reading this, I’m more conscious about it, and put it to low after a few minutes. I’ve also stopped leaving it in the “on” position when I turn the car off. I haven’t had any hard starts since.
FWIW, I did have to purchase a new battery for mine shortly after I got it back in 2012.
That last pic is an underhood shot. I’m willing to bet that’s not a big V8 either. 😉 I’m sure he meant that the battery in the Mercedes is under the seat.
Yeah that makes more sense. The battery in my mom’s X3 was also under the trunk floor.
OHH! Yes. Ignore my comment below.
Interesting. Well, if the alternator can’t keep up with the seat warmer at idle, I can see why it drained the battery so quickly.
Yeah, I think you can stop blaming “operator error.” It’s safe to point the finger at Honda/Acura for specifying an undersized battery and alternator.
Alternatively, they shouldn’t be offering heated seats if normal use of them immobilizes the car.
From the last picture, your battery has the little built-in hydrometer to indicate the state of health of the battery. That should’ve told you if the battery was dead.
I’ll remember that for next time 🙂 It never occurred to me. What will they think of next? Some fail-safe device that shuts off the juice before a battery goes dead? I’ve been waiting on that for some time.
I have heard that some police interceptors have auto shutoffs if accessories are left on and the car isn’t running. Supposedly it kills the battery with just enough juice to start the car remaining. I had a neighbor who was a highway patrolman and I’m sure his car worked that way. He once left his radar on all weekend with the car off. The constant signal killed the battery in my F150 because I left the radar detector on. 🙁
My 56 DeSoto came with the 341, everything HD,with basically the Imperial or 300 chassis with an extra leaf spring in the back, stiffer frame and so forth. One thing I noticed early on (I was seven when we got it) was a few times waiting in the car, everything, including the clock, shut down after a half hour. I didn’t think about asking our friends at the Chrysler dealership what caused it. Then when I got my 77 New Yorker Brougham that was a police spec car for the power train, I did ask about some of it’s quirks, one being the same as the Desoto, it shut everything off but the chronometer. They said it was set up to do that because of the police specs. It also shut the A/C off above 100 mph and cut it off on full throttle acceleration. I wasn’t crazy about that and changed it so it stayed on. The DeSoto had A/C from the factory and did exactly the same things. Dad had it removed in 1958 saying if it wasn’t going to work, get rid of it. (he drove a lot at high speed) One thing though, the clock is all original and still keeps perfect time once it set, but it still shuts off after a half hour,once the car is shut off. It’s been working for 62 years. On the New Yorker, the chronometer kept going and other than 1 battery change, it kept perfect time for the 12 years I had the car.
Akmost forgot about it, but in 1981, Andy and I were coming back from the races at Laguna Seca in my ’66 Imperial. It was night, no traffic, I had the lights on high beam, the AM/FM radio on with reverb on, The A/C on high (it was 90 degrees) with front and rear defrosters on as rain had started so the wipers were on, traveling around 80 mph. Andy and I both used the power seat switches at the same time (Split bench with 6 way power units on each seat, which BTW weigh in at 390 pounds for each seat.) When we activated the seats with the full load of electric devices on the amp gauge bottomed out, the check gauges light lit bright red, and the engine started to stumble. I yelled “Let off the seat switch! and had on my side. Everything went back to normal. I thought it interesting the following year (67) they changed the Imperial so if both seat switches were used at the same time, the passenger side shuts off until the drivers side switch is out of use.
Our old Touareg as well as the wife’s current car tell us when the battery is going down in the same situation as yours, we always experience(d) it when picking the kids up at school and staying in the pickup lane with engine off but heaters on. The warning message says something to the effect that the car needs to be turned off now otherwise it might not start again.
Paul, this device disconnects the battery power if the voltage drops below 11.7 volts. It attaches inline between the positive cable and the positive terminal of the battery, and a ground wire also has to be attached. Apparently they are commonly used on police cruisers. To reactivate power you just tap the brakes or turn on a power draw item, like the headlights.
http://www.prioritystart.com/12vpromax.php
Fords have had that for near 20 years, they call it the battery saver and it will shut off the lights and other things that don’t need the key on to run.
They also have RAP or retained accessory power which keeps certain functions on when you shut off the car but don’t open the door. It will let the radio, windows, and sunroof operate for 10 min before auto shut off. The RAP does not allow the seat heaters to run though IIRC.
The Battery Saver function has saved me on a couple of occasions where the kids have left on a reading light. Next morning came out and started the car and looked into the rear view mirror to notice a reading light on. It has also saved the day when they didn’t get the hatch closed fully. I actually used on my daughter’s Police interceptor. Since I’m used to driving vehicles with auto lamps I got out one time leaving the headlights on. Came back out a couple of hours later started up the car and the headlights came on. It took me a bit to realized that the Battery Saver function had kicked in and turned off the lights for me.
Our Grand Caravan has that too, definately saved us a few times. Although I’m not sure if that is a low voltage cutoff or just a timer.
I assumed it was standard equipment on all modern cars.
It is just a timer, so no it won’t save you if your battery is well past its prime like Paul’s.
In detailing most shut lights off inside at 10-18 minutes, one 76 Eldorado convertible had so many interior lights it killed the battery before it could shut down. At night with the top down it had enough lights (38 of them) it should have been able to be seen from space.
Plenty of low voltage cut outs available for smaller current draws- think
car fridges. No reason you couldn’t have one operating a relay.
A really, really big relay though,
my 09 silverado kills all power to the accessories before the battery gets low enough not to be able to start. i can listen to music for a couple hours without running the engine and then it shuts everything down, but I can still start it again
*confused look*
The battery is under the rear seat. But there is a photo of a battery under the hood.
Battery was under the seat of the jumpER Mercedes not the jumpEE Acura (got me as well).
Lincolns for years put the batteries in a compartment below the slanted part of the passenger floor, below a steel door. (1952-1957 at least). Great fun to jump start, or get the battery out.
My Fit has the tiny motorcycle-sized battery, and I’ve read the 1st/2nd-gen Fit batteries (also small) fail at around 2-3 years. There appears to be room for a standard-size battery, so I’ll likely try to hack one in when the inevitable happens.
Can’t remember the last time I had to have one of my cars jumped… they usually fail in the driveway. (c:
+! Just last week after some brutal cold in Atlanta, I had to roll off my Fit to get it to start after not having driven it for a while!! 🙂
Yes Honda OE batteries are some of the worst with. If you get 3 years out of the OE battery you are doing good. It is all in the name of CAFE. The smaller battery saves weight and not packing in the plates to the normal density saves a few more pounds. Usually Honda does leave a little room to put a slightly larger battery in there.
Hmmmmm. I know from experience that my teeny tiny Honda Fit battery has a short lifespan (I’m on my third on a car bought fall of 2006). But even then, I got a little warning.
You don’t suppose you somehow triggered an immobilizer in a factory alarm system, did you? I did this very thing when I first bought my 94 Club Wagon as I was trying to leave the dealership, after some odd combination of opening and closing doors. I wonder if leaving the key in “on” for too long somehow breaks a circuit of some kind? Pure guess, though.
I do feel better in an odd way. After getting my Sedona back from the shop on a couple of warranty repairs (thermostat and a door lock actuator), I wondered in my mind if I would have avoided these little niggling problems by buying a Honda or Acura like Paul Niedermeyer did. Guess not. 🙂
That’s what I initially assumed, about the immobilizer or something like that.
If it is in fact the battery that drains that quickly, you ought to have a warranty claim. My first Fit battery was replaced under warranty (a first in my life). And being the exact same part, failed in exactly the same time interval as the first. I am hoping that my aftermarket unit lasts a little longer.
The dealer said they tested the battery as part of what they did. And it was ok, according to them.
My original ’05 Scion Xb battery is still going at ten years! And it’s regular-sized, FWIW.
At the detail shop I used to get recall notices for new cars. Don’t remember the year and dont know if it was accurate or not (never happened to me), the notice said if the ignition switch was turned on just as the passenger door was slammed it could set off the airbag on a Ford pickup.
The Honda I’ve known (admittedly a small sample) have had small-ish batteries. The Civics had a tall skinny one.
Still 3-4 minutes seems likely an awfully short time. I suspect the battery is marginal and you’ll be replacing it soon.
Discharging the whole battery in 3-4 minutes would likely have melted something, I think. That’s practically a dead short!
4 minutes?? Even with the radio and the seat heaters turned on…that’s pathetic. I wouldn’t so much call that “operator error” as either “dying battery” or “ridiculously underspecified battery”.
Also, with regard to the E430 battery under the back seat, it could also be there for weight distribution reasons. Our ’86 Audi 5000 had the battery under the seat, and there was plenty of extra space in that engine bay. Considering the front-heavy bias of that car though (not helped by the engine occurring almost entirely forward of the front axle!) I can only assume putting the relatively heavy battery rearward of center evened things out a bit.
Pathetic is just the word. Given that they already had to jump it once when you picked it up and it died after only a few minutes of using the seat warmers and had to be charged again, they really should have given you a new battery gratis.
And if the specified battery is really so small that it’s normal for one seat warmer to drain it in three to four minutes, that’s pretty lame. This is a nice, expensive luxury car, not some crapmobile from the ’80s. I think most people expect more than that from a battery, especially in a car like this.
Putting them outside the engine bay should extend the batteries life considerably, as it’s not subjected to the heat from the engine. It costs the manufacture a fair bit in extra copper for the longer, thicker battery cables but there are a lot of trade offs in engineering.
It is both a ridiculously undersized battery and a battery that is about to die.
Paul, it happens to the best of us. was your foot on the brake? The lamps could have been draining too. Maybe clean the battery terminals and apply a contact cleaner to them. I have a Napa battery that is still operating after seven years! Bad luck happens to all of us.
No. It was the seat warmer; it takes a lot of juice.
I see a new battery in your future, soon. Sometimes they test ok but really are not up to where they should be. I can’t believe a good condition fully charged battery would run down in less than 5 minutes regardless of what was running for that amount of time. My 04 Titan (built Jan 04) still has it’s 11 year old battery and starts right up even after sitting as long as a month. No seat heaters, though. Does seem strange the car allows the seat heaters to run without the engine running no matter what position the key is in, you would think it would have a design that prevented this.
Does it not have jump points under the hood too? My Volvo wagon has the battery under the hatch as well, and the first time it died with the hatch locked (no keyhole, only power…brilliant), I thought I was screwed till I read the manual, and it has two metal prongs to hook jumper cables to under the hood.
Hot cable to starter circuit, earth cable to engine block, jump starting thru a dead battery was never recommended.
The jump points I’m speaking of function the same way as attaching to the battery. They provide a ground and positive point under the hood, hook it up, charge the battery, then start the car.
It just avoids having to connect the cables inside the passenger compartment. With how leery they are of sparks, I can’t imagine any manufacturer having the only way to jump a car being to connect the cables inside the car.
I’ve seen the same with BMWs and Audis: the battery is in the trunk, but you can still jump the car with the attachment points under the hood.
+1; our Z3 has the battery in the trunk (and I have my own story about running that battery down–always make sure the (well-sealed) trunk really shuts!) but jump points under the hood. I would find and read the W210’s owner’s manual on this topic before needing to jump start agsain.
Our Volvo S80 had the battery under the trunk, and jump points under the hood.
Ive heard somewhere though dont quote me some of these new fangled cars will not go if the battery is slightly down not flat just a few volts light, I have one of those baby batteries in my Hillman salvaged from a Corolla scrapyard bound I installed a switch to isolated the stereo because if not driven for 3 days the memory function in the stereo flattens the battery, but of course that car is blessed with a crankhandle and in the driveway I have the strongest cranking amp battery available in my Citroen a stock car battery will not glow and crank its diesel engine one or the other but not both.
I think the BMW E39 (5 series) has the battery located in the trunk/luggage compartment.
Yes, the 3 Series and the 5 Series both have the battery in the trunk but on the new 5 (2014 anyhow) the battery is not even accessible – it’s extra big to handle the auto-stop feature which shuts off the engine every time the car stops moving and restarts it when you remove your foot from the brake.
In any case both the 3 and the 5 have jumper points under the hood. I bet that big Mercedes does too if you look for them.
I personally live by the rule that the battery should only be used alone for starting, anything else, seat heaters/radio/lights I want the alternator replenishing power. So naturally I’m leery about shutting the car off when I’m in traffic, simply because I fear this off chance I can’t get it started again, whether because of the battery, starter, ect. I prefer to just let it idle. One of many things that bug me about newer cars, besides the toy batteries Acura seems to use, is the automatic accessory delay that keeps all the interior functions ‘on’ when you remove the keys, and only shuts them off when the door is opened.
Usually they are smart enough to shut them off anyway. My ’95 LeSabre doesn’t automatically shut off the interior lights no matter what, making the drivers used to newer cars drain out my battery every couples of days… The old manual days
Glad I haven’t got heated seats……
As silly as it may sound, they’re honestly the one luxury feature I couldn’t live with out, having had them in my last two cars. They make an incredible difference when you live in a climate with cold winters. Sitting on something warm tends to heat the body better than hot air blowing on you. When it’s not as cold I often find myself just using the seat heater and leaving the heat off. Though they’ve been around for some time, I haven’t experienced cooled seats yet, although they’re starting to make their way into sub-$50,000 cars.
Brendan, wait until you experience a heated steering wheel, while I love me some heated seats, I am head over heels for the heated wheel! And the Chrysler fires them up automatically if it’s under 40F out.
Yeah I’m looking forward to the possibility of having a heated steering wheel in my next car. In the cold, my fingers tend to get numb in a matter of minutes, so that would be a welcomed feature. An automatic heated steering wheel is an especially good feature. I’ve been meaning to test drive a new Grand Cherokee (an unlikely but still possible consideration for a new car in the next 1-2 years down the line), so I’ll hopefully experience it then.
Funny you should bring up heated steering wheels. Told the wife that we should start thinking about replacing her 04 Infiniti I-35 in the next 18 to 24 months. Her only comment was “make sure the next car also has the heated wheel. Just keep remembering, “happy wife, happy life”.
Apparently the new S-class also has heated arm rest areas on the door and center console. I thought that was ridiculous when I saw it last week but now am finding myself noticing that my elbows are cold. They’ve been fine for the last 45 years, but now….Sheesh.
The ’05 Deville has heated and cooled seats plus a heated steering wheel. I also like that I can adjust the level of heat/cool to the seats, there isn’t just on/off like on many heated seats. It also has memory seats, something I find more enjoyable than any of the temperature features because I’m not the only driver.
I love seat heaters. I have them on my Audi, and they’re a dream in the winter. Keep in mind, some days I need to drive when it’s -15 degrees outside (Fahrenheit).
Also, strangely, my Audi is perfectly fine with the seat heaters running at idle. And, it’s only a 2001. Our 2000 Impala would also kill accessories after 10 minutes to save the battery. You’d think that 10 years later, you’d have the same technology in a luxury wagon that Chevrolet could offer on a “plain-jane” sedan.
Our 2015 Kia Soul has heated/cooled seats, and a heated steering wheel. It would be hard to go back to a car without them.
It depends on what type of car. If it’s a newer car with a smaller engine, and smooth leather, heated seats are necessary, since the smooth leather is icey cold and smaller engines takes quite a while to warm up. But for a larger sedan with V6/L6 or V8 with plushy interior all around, or even velour seats, it’s common to be warm enough after driving one mile, even around 10F. ( It could be more obvious if the heater couldn’t be turned off properly like my winter car ’95 LeSabre, thus winter time is the hottest season to drive for me, all sweaty even in summer break like clothes. Sigh* It’s not all that easy to be miserably steamed in winter )
What an experience!
Here in southern Arizona, even the very best batteries tend to have a shortish life, three to four years generally. It’s the summer heat that goes on for a good five months or so that does it. I’ll be interested to see when the 12-volt battery goes in our Camry hybrid. It’s located in the trunk. We have seat heaters, too, but they don’t get heavy use here. The A/C uses an electric compressor, but it appears to draw its power from the hybrid battery pack.
Ditto on that; you’re lucky to get the warranty period out of a battery around here. Like Ed’s Fit, my Civic has a teeny battery; I recall my ’67 MGB, with the same engine displacement, having 2 pretty heavy 6V things behind the seats: lots of oomph, but twice as many connectors to work loose.
I’ve also been in the habit of shutting off at long intersections & the occasional slow train, to improve tank mileage, but the downside isn’t helped by the utter lack of warning. Not sure am ammeter would help, either. One can do a basic check of the charging system at home, but I’ve concluded that batteries, dry or wet, are voodoo, black magic.
One of my jobs decades ago was maintaining a 110 volt battery at a switching station it was for emergency operation of 110,000 volt transmission lines its not really black magic its just a device with unusual wear characteristics which must be dealt with and done properly those 55 2 volt cells gave no trouble, of course modern lead acid batteries are sealed and cannot be repaired by design.
Yes the electric AC compressors used in Hybrids are high voltage and run off of the traction battery.
With my highlander, I’ve discovered that the electronics need the battery to be at 12 volts or higher. Maybe your car needs a similar threshold met.
If the car doesn’t that voltage minimum, nothing in the car works.
You can attach the smallest of batteries to raise the system voltage up, and everything
then works and the car starts up.
True, I’ve got the hybrid, and it uses its 300 volt battery to start the car, so the calculations may be there to protect that secondary system from going dead, but with your battery so small, they might have similar protections built in. Maybe you can sneak an extra battery in to the car somewhere…
because yes, these tiny little batteries don’t have very long lives given the demands of the cars that they’re in.
A Panhard VBL is a better chose , is designed by CoCo Chanel the French fashion designer.
In ’05 or ’06, after getting fuel, my 2001 Crown Vic would not start. Nor would it start via a jump. Even a new battery failed to do anything (yes, I jumped the gun and bought a battery because I had the pump blocked and had a spirited exchange with the station manager).
It was towed back to the house.
Come to find out, there was a connectivity issue at the opposite end of the battery cable, where it attached to the fender. That’s what first came to mind. However, like you, your Acura seems way too fresh for a bad battery or connection.
I would have thought the issue was the fuel shut off switch that all fords have had since the fuel injection age started at Ford. They are supposed to shut the car off in the event of a collision or roll over to stop the flow of gas from going from the fuel pump to the engine and causing a fire. However these units like to trip at random times.
Hyundai had starting issues on some of the 2006-2007 Sonatas due to the factory over painting the area that the negative battery cable was attached to thereby breaking the ground. The fix was to unbolt the cable and do a bit of dremeling to the paint where the grounding bolt went to. and that fixed it.
With all the Fords I have owned, the fuel shutoff has only happened once. One day long ago, I hit a concrete blowup in my ’96 Thunderbird and it killed the engine. A press of the button in the trunk, and it was good to go.
Paul go down to the local parts place and buy yourself a new battery. If it is advance auto you can find coupons on the interwebs, and buy it from Advance auto’s website and then pick it up 30 mins later.
You have a bad battery. Yes the dealer tested it but perhaps it was not tested correctly. I bought a 2001 Honda Accord many years ago and 6 months later it did the same thing as yours did when I sat in it listening to the radio while waiting 10 minutes for my brother to finish buying stuff at the local 7-11.
the car got towed to the local Honda dealership under warranty. they tested the battery and it passed and was charged up. Two days late the battery again drained and I tossed in the towel with Honda warranty service and bought a new battery at Autozone and popped it in after inspecting the battery cables (cables looked good with no corrosion) reconnected everything and reset the clock and radio and started it up and all was good. That was the end of the problem and the car gave me no more charging issues.
Honda used really small batteries for what is in the car.
Heat warmers don’t actually generate that much current draw. (If you are actually interested in seeing how much current is used by the @$$ warmers, simply turn on the heated seat and close all doors(to make sure the dome light is not on) then connect a multi meter to the battery and you can find the amount of current used)
Yes the battery is toast and should be replaced NOW.
My ’08 Acura TL is still on its original battery (knock on wood)…and it has gone between heat and cold for the past seven years, being in New England. I notice that the interior lamp will turn off if the door is left open. Perhaps the TSX battery is smaller.
My mother has a Mercedes W211; unlike the W210’s sole under-seat battery, it has a massive battery under the trunk floor and a smaller one under the hood. (This arrangement is due to the bizarre brake-by-wire system that Mercedes abandoned after a few model years.) The smaller one has been replaced once or twice; I don’t know if the larger one has ever been replaced! (Knock on wood, once again.) If the large battery runs low, the car generally starts, but until the alternator can charge it back up, it disables all accessories and gives you a warning in the instrument cluster. Thank goodness!
Thanx for the dual memories Paul ! .
Back in the day , it was normal to encounter 15 minute long waits at rail road crossings so shutting off the engine was normal , pretty much everyone did it .
In 1989 my ex wife bought a brandy new Honda Accord and it had a tiny little battery the same size as the one on my harley Panhead .
Opps , end of shift gotta go ! .
-Nate
I ran the battery down on my 2007 SRX when it was new. I was going through the owners manual and what I think did the battery in was stowing the third seat and then unstowing it (a power process). The next morning the battery was dead. Called for a jump, covered by Cadillac.
My ATS and CTS both have the battery in the trunk. I don’t use the seat warmers much, but the steering wheel warmer is wonderful in really cold weather. But I only run it long enough to get the wheel warm and turn it off. My seat warmer will shut off when the car is turn off I think, and do not restart. Also shutting off the engine will not shut down the radio until the drivers door is opened or ten minutes go by.
Paul,
If I was in your situation I would go out a buy a new battery. You wrote that before you bought it your car sat on the dealer’s lot for a year. Well, any battery that has not been used for such a long time is never going to be able to hold a full charge like it could when it was new. The lead plates in the battery get sulfated up and no amount of charging will reverse that process.
You could go to an auto parts store, have them test the battery, then turn on the seat heaters for 5 minutes with the engine off, and then test the battery again. If you try and reproduce the original situation you will have a better chance of discovering what the problem was/is.
But I would still buy a new battery. Cheap insurance against it happening again.
I agree — had the same happen to my 2011 Toyota Landcruiser. I bought it in August, 2012 from the dealer as a demo with 3,000 miles on it. The car must have sat for a while as I needed 2 roadside assistance jumps from Toyota that 1st winter — after the 2nd jump the dealer replaced the battery for free — no issues since. Yes my battery is quite a bit larger yet both times it died at gas stations (lucky for me) after a very short drive from my house.
It’s always a real pain when that happens. I had so many kids and grandkids who had little mechanical skills and drove junkers that I went with triple A. Hope it works itself out. Those tough Houston area winters mean that I normally do not opt for seat warmers. Heater working in 2 miles or three minutes.
It’s been much tougher typing this comment. Lots of corrections. My turn babysitting the orphan princess and she wants to type too.
From my own experience, Acuras/Hondas seem to have a little more of a problem with weak batteries than other cars. A friend who owns a 2008 (that’s 1st-generation) TSX killed his battery more than once, I think, sitting in a parked car using the navigation system and bluetooth phone system, when the car was fairly new. I also own a 2008 TSX, and the battery required replacing when the car was less than 3 years old. I took it to the dealer and they replaced it under warranty. Then, THAT battery died after less than 2 more years! That time, they said the longer warranty doesn’t cover Acura “replacement” batteries — that is, the ones they give you for free as a warranty replacement. I raised a stink with Honda Customer Relations and got them to pay for it (although by that time I had gotten a Delco battery elsewhere). I also heard about a 2013 Acura ILX that’s already gone through its original battery, but it’s a high-mileage car with over 100,000 miles.
Are you referring to Tyson Hugie’s 100K+ ILX? He managed to tax his original battery beyond the limit by using a laptop but due to having a stick shift, was able to get it running though a push start:
https://drivetofive.wordpress.com/2014/12/09/palm-springs-again-roadside-assistance/
Yes! I forgot about the push start. One of the advantages of the now-rare manual transmission!
My 08 Acura TL battery died right at about the four year mark which I thought was a remarkably short battery life but apparently it is the norm for an Acura.
I’d demand a new battery, too. Heck, if the dealer pulled another used one, you’re odds would probably be better.
I’d at least recommend getting that battery checked at an O’Reillys/Napa/CarQuest in the near future.
Four minutes to drain is unacceptable.
I’ll join the chorus of folks who thinks there’s something seriously wrong if you can drain your battery in about 5 minutes. I don’t care if the dealer washes the car for you, I’d be mighty suspicious of that battery.
Apparently, they’re rather small, so it shouldn’t be a huge investment to replace it. FWIW, I just replaced the battery in my 2009 G6. The car was assembled in August 2008, so I came close to 6.5 years on a OEM battery.
I had the car in for a recall notice and the Buick store found that the battery was on it’s way out. We never had a no-start with this car, but there were a few sub-zero days this winter that she cranked slower than usual. I feel it was $100 well-spent.
The one dumb thing I don’t like is that a low-battery condition will light the Check Engine light. Since the CEL comes on for so many things, it’s far too easy to just ignore it. I guess one ignores these things at their own peril…
Good luck and hopefully you won’t be stranded again…
The owners manual in my Cruze (an English one I had to download and make into a book) states that the seat warmers only work when the engine is running.
At any rate, just after I bought it I did a quick wax job on it with the radio playing for about 45 minutes. Dead as a door nail.
I could do this no problem on every other car I ever owned.
I had numerous battery troubles for about 3 months if the car wasn’t driven for a few days. I finally attributed it to a “black box” system (AKA dashcam), which consists of the unit itself, and extra plug-in rear camera, and some kind of flashing strobe device (actual function indeterminate) attached to the back of the rearview mirror.
Changing to a switched circuit fixed things, although the damage to the battery is permanent, as it loses power while sitting.
I also discovered that the “Malfunctioning Electric Power Steering” warning light also inadvertently doubles as a low battery voltage indicator.
I was taught in no uncertain terms never to let the vehicles touch when jumping. Was that warning overstated?
I can’t see why it’s a problem-It’s just another path to ground.
Nowadays, since all cars have plastic bumper “covers”, I’m not sure if that is still the concern that existed with chrome plated metal/frame attached bumpers! 🙂
Elliott’s probably correct, but I still err on the side of caution. I’d drive on the sidewalk before I’d let the vehicles touch.
Note to self- Mercedes=Not Good for jump starting.
If you go positive to positive then ground to ground (as is usually recommended) you could get a nasty surprise when you hook up the positive. Already grounded equals arc. Could even cause an explosion. Also if you touch anything but the positive terminal you could short and f up both vehicles computers.
I was reading this at work…motorcycle battery is what I was thinking also. This is laughably undersized for a car.
On the buttwarmer note, do these have a thermostat that shuts them off after so long? As I remember, my PT Cruiser’s warmers would shut off after a time. Even on low, they always cooked me out and I had to kill them after a few mins…
If you look up at the picture I posted in the first comment, you’ll notice that the heats seats run continuously in the “low” position, which Paul said he had on. The “high” says it will shut off once it reaches a certain temp.
I guess it’s a matter of preference. For example, my mom turns off the heated seats after a few minutes, but I like to leave them on, even on high. I don’t mind being a little extra toasty.
I had a similar issue when I was playing around with the electronics in my new CSX. I spent around 20-30 minutes in accessory mode playing around with navigation and what not in the car. I used to drive a Tercel (which seemed to have a very similarly sized battery I might add), and I used to keep the radio on for much longer than that without any issues.
Thankfully, I managed to get the car jump started. After that incident, I never leave my car idle for that amount of time. Or at least not in a car with navigation, heated seats, etc.
There is something else wrong. Disconnect the ground on the battery and check the amount of power (amps) between the cable and the ground post. If it substantial, remove one fuse at a time until the amps drop. Then you have your culprit. If that doesn’t work, have the battery checked. My Avenger (battery hidden behind and below the headlight in a compartment accessed from the wheelwell) had a 2 year old battery that was junk and replaced free under warrantee as it was supposed to crap out after 3 years.
Doing the test for a drain doesn’t work that way anymore. Many of the modules in a modern car don’t sleep until it has been shut off, sometimes for 10 or even 30 minutes. You need to research the particular vehicle and see how long it takes for the modules to go to sleep before you start looking for that draw. Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery via the ammeter will wake many of the modules up. Opening the door will also wake up many of the modules. Drain testing is a royal PITA on new cars.
Assuming the alternator output is correct, I would also vote for getting a new battery. There is no way a healthy battery should drain that fast due to a seat warmer and stereo (unless you have one of those amped up super bass jobs maybe). I have a 2005 Civic Hybrid (it was a gift) which does have a very small battery too. The other day my wife left on a courtesy/map light over night and it drained the 1 year old battery to zilch. It only read 0.1 volts on the DVM. I also found the battery charger wouldn’t charge it… Just before going to buy a new battery I found a nugget on the internet that most battery chargers require some charge to be in the battery or they will not work. The work around is to connect the dead battery to a good one in parallel (jumper cables); this fools the charger into charging. After an hour on 10 amps it had enough charge to go it alone.
The little batteries work most of the time. Modern cars don’t crank for 10 or 20 seconds like they did with carbs and points ignitions. Now it’s a second or two and it’s running. BUT, without the alternator charging, it goes below 10 volts pretty quick and then it’s a no start.
When I saw the first picture of the Acura, my first thought was ‘didn’t think anybody bought one of those’, why is it getting towed? Then the 12 months at the dealer and having to jump it there, it kind of made sense. Battery got sulfated and can’t store a full charge…
It’s odd, I recently had the battery in my Fleetwood run out of juice. I haven’t jumped hundreds of cars but I have jumped dozens; learned to do it before I could drive so I do know how. I had my ’77 Electra close at hand (I was switching them out for the week) and came back with it to where the Fleetwood was parked. New cables and idling for a few minutes couldn’t get it started. AAA came with the machine and got it running. It was dead again the next week when I drove it again. Come to find out there was a short in the ignition system, but I’d have thought a jump would work, it’s the first and only (so far) time I’ve tried to jump start a dead battery and failed.
CC effect. Has to be. I read this at work today. After work, I almost had to provide a jump for a coworker whose ’87 Corvette wouldn’t start. (It was not needed, he was able to get it started, security system – passkey precursor – was acting up.) Then, when I got home, I noticed that I’d left the passenger map light on in my Volvo. Since Sunday evening. And it was consequently hard to start, but it managed… Sounds like if I had only as much battery capacity as the TSX, 48 hours with the map light on would have more than drained it!
I have a car battery with maybe three months of use on it that I’m not using.
Paul- you should read this thread – apparently some TSX batteries are bad, but dealers are testing them as good, unless pushed a bit as batteries are warranty items….
http://www.tsxclub.com/forums/2nd-gen-problems-fixes/45820-battery-wont-hold-charge.html
I like the suggestion of going to the dealership, turning on the headlights for three or four minutes and seeing what happens.
Thanks. I’m going to get it checked again. I strongly suspect it’s not good.
You got the car back with a fully-charged battery. No charge. Even a car wash. You’re happy.
The dealer is even happier. They didn’t have to give you a new battery. Or a charging system repair. Or whatever. What you did shouldn’t have stressed a good battery in a car with a good charging system to the point where it wouldn’t crank your engine.
“They had to jump it to get it started” when you bought the car? That sounds ominous.
The Service Adviser suggested…(that) one should never use Accessory to keep them on for any length of time”? That sounds like bullshit. Because if that is indeed true, the engineers and designers at Honda don’t know what they are doing; and that is unlikely. Except when they were designing the transmission in my brother’s Odyssey minivan, that is, which does suggest that it isn’t impossible.
Seriously. I’d expect a lot more from Acura in dealing with a nearly new car.
Their crappy battery inconvenienced you; what if this had happened when you were on your way to a wedding or funeral? And heck, what would it have cost for them to install a battery, anyway? Five minutes and probably $60. Instead, they decided to play roulette with this battery and with your time (and money). Besides, there’s a good chance they’re going to replace it anyway when it dies on you again. Why not just do it now?
Yeah … free car wash … great. I bet they had cappuccino and warm cookies in the waiting room, too. They gave you the major blow-off. I would expect a lot more from a luxury brand like Acura, which should be pampering its customers, not acting like a VW dealer from the 1980s.
The correct response here would have been, “We think your battery is OK, but we put a new one in just to make sure this doesn’t happen to you, our valued customer, again.”
I think engineers usually know what they are doing. They often get overruled by beancounters though. And that happens from time to time at every company.
I largely agree, but just for clarification: I must have had the key in ON, as the seat warmers don’t work in ACC; I checked to confirm that. The battery may well have been a bit weak, but strictly speaking, it was my Operator Error in having the key in ON that caused it to fall below the level of being able to start the car.
Hmm…I wish I had more to add.
When I bought the Civic, it was almost a year old and had been sitting most of the winter on the dealer’s lot. On more than one occasion I have been out in the garage cleaning and waxing it with the radio and XM going, and I have yet to have the battery give me trouble. Because I skipped the leather option, I don’t have bun warmers, but it’s got everything else, well, you saw it, and so far so good. It makes me wonder if there is something in that car that pulls an extreme amount of power?
Looking forward to reading about the next chapter!
Richard, it the difference between your Civic and the TSX may be the battery vendor. Your Civic was probably built in Indiana or Ontario. The TSX is made in Japan. The OEM battery in my 98 Civic went 6 years. The OEM battery in my mom’s Japanese built 81 Mazda gave out in less than 3. That old Mazda battery had fill caps for the cells, so I took a look inside and saw the worst mess of buckled plates you could imagine. Her car had been on the dealer lot for about a month, plus the trim from Japan.
I can relate to what happened to your car. I have a 2011 TSX wagon and Acura replaced the battery under warranty when the car had around 35k miles on it. It wouldn’t have enough juice to start the car after listening to the radio for a few minutes. Could be a bad battery.
Sitting for a year can kill a battery. I keep battery tenders on all three of the cars I only drive once a week. I had a brand new battery in my Fairlane go bad in only 3 months, while I had the car was on jackstands getting the brakes, steering, and suspension replaced. Took the battery back to the store, they tested it, it was bad, they gave me a new one. I’ve also had motorcycle batteries go bad in a very short time. Once they’ve been completely dead for very long, they are ruined. I suggest a new battery. And if you don’t drive it on a regular basis, a battery tender.
Do not go past Go, Do NOT go to the Acura dealer go directly to Costco, GM or Ford dealer and buy a new battery before your wife gets home. Yeah if pushed you may get Acura to warranty it but you’ll get another sub par battery. Just bite the bullet and get a quality battery.
2-3 years is the expected life of an OE Honda battery and the fact that it was allowed to sit dead for who knows how long took a lot of the life out of the battery.
You’ll avoid a call from the wife stating that her car won’t start and from hearing about it for some time afterwards.
Honestly just replace the battery with a quality aftermarket one.
Any specific brand recommendations?
Personally my first choice is Costco as they have a high quality version of Johnson Controls standard batteries and offer them at a reasonable price, certainly not the cheapest but a good value for the quality. The problem with Costco is they only stock the most common sizes so they may not have one for your car.
The DieHard is also the top of the ranking from Johnson Controls at least on the West Coast. The last I checked, at least on the West Coast, Napa has been selling Johnson Controls after years of way too high warranty claims on the ones they had been sourcing from Exide. Back east I’ve heard that Sears and Napa sell East Penn/Deka which I’ve heard are good but are not very common in the west so I have no experience with them.
So if Costco doesn’t have one I’d head to Sears and then Napa. Delco, Motorcraft and Interstate are good batteries but are not usually a good value because of where they are typically sold.
I will not use a battery from Exide and if I buy a car with one in it I’ll replace it immediately.
Either way I’d rather spend the money on a battery now than get the call from the wife later that it won’t start. In fact when I changed the oil on my wife’s car this weekend I thought, OE battery going on5 years old, I better replace it soon, because I don’t want that call.
Thanks. She’s heading off to CA next week, so, yes, I am going to get one today!
Yea if she is heading off in it to CA then by all means replace it now. Murphy’s law says the next time it wouldn’t start would be at an even more inconvenient place and time and of course with the wife behind the wheel and not you. Then of course, eventually your son would chime in about this incident and you would be in the dog house for certain.
Just came back from Costco with a new Interstate (made by Johnson) 42 month battery for $69.99. It has 25% more capacity than the original. End of story, for some time, I hope.
That is weird, the Costcos in WA only stock the Kirkland brand. Interstate does have a short warranty compared to the other brand manufactured by JC. It will last much longer than the warranty assuming. I’ve got one in one of my Scouts that will still crank and start it after sitting for a couple of months and it is ~60ish months old. Since it is a carbed vehicle it takes a lot of cranking until there is fuel in the bowl so it will start. I pulled it out of a vehicle that was going to scrap.
A local Exide shop was the only source for 6 volt batteries for my ’66 Bug in my area and they’d last maybe a year, even with my trickle charger. At $100 apiece, that wasn’t cheap. I’d avoid Exide.
I do not recommend Exide either. I’ve seen way too many that just up and die w/o any warning and well before their advertised life span.
Now if you are using a true trickle charger and leaving it on for more than ~24hrs then you are part of the reason that they fail prematurely. What you need is a battery maintainer. A trickle charge will continously charge at its rated output whether the battery is completely dead of fully charged. That results in boiling the battery and a short life. A battery maintainer senses when the battery is fully charged and switches to a “float charge” that neither charges nor allows the battery to discharge.
I have had very good luck with Interstate batteries. They are Nissan OEM, and they have lasted far longer for me than others I have tried. I do keep a set of jumpers in an plastic bag under the passenger seat as cheap insurance. There is an 11 year old example in my Titan that is still good, and when I was working at the Nissan dealership I saw lots of examples of elderly batteries in good condition. They are a bit pricy.
Just for giggles, I pulled up the specs for Sears Diehards for a TSX, the Ford Taurus X I used to have (which a lot of other owners gripe about short lived batteries) and my Jetta.
TSX: 500 Cold Cranking Amps 80 min reserve
Taurus X: 590 Cold Cranking Amps 95 min reserve
Jetta: 615 CCA 110 min reserve
Personally, I am almost as paranoid about running out of amps as I am about old coolant hoses bursting, hence I don’t use the rear window defogger if the headlights are on. Never used the seat heater in the Ford. Did use it once in the Jetta. When I took the Jetta home from the dealer the night I bought it, he had it warming up outside. I climbed in and noticed with horror that the salesman had the seat heater on full, along with the headlights and the heater/defroster blower. Off went the seat heater, down went the blower. Started feeling better when I got the wick turned up on the engine. Amps are good. Do not waste amps.
Note the replacement battery sold in the aftermarket rarely has any correlation with what the factory put in. Some times it is similar and sometimes it is higher. In the case of the DieHard it is most likely substantially higher than the OE spec but not always.
There really isn’t a reason to worry about running out of amps. Back in the day 30-40amp alternators were common and a 60 amp alternator was considered huge. A ~90 amp alternator is common in the low end and 120-130 amp alternators are pretty common. Yes cars have more electronics nowadays but the reality is that a lot of them don’t use a lot of amps, ie the computers and a lot of the other ones either aren’t constant use or aren’t used at their highest draw much of the time. So go ahead and be able to see where you are going with the headlights and the defroster on high and see what is behind you with the rear defogger.
If you are really scared get one of the cheap voltmeters that plug into the power point and see what it reads with everything turned on both at idle and while running down the road. If you can maintain 13.5v at idle you are not draining the battery. It isn’t charging but it isn’t getting drained either. It should get up to 14.1~14.2 for a while but the voltage dropping down to 13.8 on a longer drive is normal on a lot of cars as the battery reaches a 100% SOC the alternator will switch to that lower voltage to increase battery life and reduced the drag on the engine.
Note the replacement battery sold in the aftermarket rarely has any correlation with what the factory put in.
I used the Sears site because it was late and I could look up all three to see what capacity the battery size group allowed quickly.
There really isn’t a reason to worry about running out of amps.
It may be from my experiences in the pre-alternator days. I was too young to drive then, but I noticed how, when sitting at a traffic light, the lights would dim, the defroster blower would slow and the turn signal would stop pulsing.
The last few months I had the Ford, the battery condition eye on the battery was saying the battery was shot. A lot of owner reviews of the Taurus X complain about short OEM battery life, and the car was six years old. I never had a problem, but then, my amp conservation habits made sure it was never challenged.
So go ahead and be able to see where you are going with the headlights
Funny you should mention that. The Jetta is the first car I have had with running lights. So when I get home after dark, I kill the headlights as I drive through the condo parking lot and roll into the garage on the running lights.
If you are really scared get one of the cheap voltmeters that plug into the power point and see what it reads with everything turned on both at idle and while running down the road.
I have one, and do that from time to time. Particularly with the aforementioned Taurus X before it was traded for the Jetta.
You aren’t doing anything to save the battery by not using the accessories that the alternator was designed to power.
Yes in the old days the generator didn’t put out power at idle but alternators have long sense changed that. The only way you are going to have a problem is if you’ve added a lot of electrical draws that the factory didn’t plan for and then only idled.
Car batteries are mostly crap today, some more so than others. This isn’t the first late model Honda/Acura product with this issue. I would get that factory battery replaced with a higher end unit ASAP before you have to get another tow. I know a lot of people with late model cars that are only 2-3 years old with shot OEM batteries. It seems that one must spend several hundred dollars or more to get a decent battery.
Yeah many manufactures cut costs and improve CAFE ratings by putting in small small batteries and then putting in a low capacity version of that size battery. The savings are enormous when you multiply it by how many units a high volume mfgs does overall. $5 per battery doesn’t sound like much on a $20-$30K car but $5 per battery when you move a million cars and that is $5 million dollars of lost profit. The average consumer doesn’t know they got a crappy battery at least until long after the sale.
Man! That looks like a motorcycle battery. And look at that thin negative cable on it.
On my ride, a 2002 Saturn L100 SE I have a OEM replacement battery rated at 700 Cold Cranking Amps (875 Cranking Amps) 100 reserve minutes.
I always buy the biggest battery that fits. With the cute Acura battery I doubt those specs would be found.
Doesn’t sound like operator error to me, 3-4 minutes?
That is one tiny battery, kind of the same size as my ZG1000 motorcycle. Both our daily driver cars have “normal” sized batteries but then again our “new” vehicle is 8 years old.
Doesn’t look like there is room for an oversized premium DieHard battery as I put in my Ranger pickup and had the opposite experience as you 🙂
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/coal-1988-ford-ranger-the-wee-truck/
FWIW, I must have had the key in “On”, not “ACC”, as the seat warmers don’t work in ACC. But you’re right, it looks like a motorcycle battery.
I certainly wouldn’t put much, if any of the blame on you and put it on the fact that they put a small battery in the car and then it was left sitting in a discharged state for who knows how long.
I doubt if you sat there looking at a bunch of red lights et al on your dashboard without noticing. Anyhow, I am not sure of the economic worth of turning the engine off for short periods. I have given up on that as my experience shows that the savings over a year would total up to ‘accounting dust’ as a friend used to say – that is: Too insignificant to be worth bothering with.
My current car (a 2014 BMW 5 series) has the automatic ‘engine off when stopped / auto restart’ feature, along with an elaborate ‘Eco’ display which allows you to track your gas mileage every minute if you choose, and which is displayed graphically so you can compare minute-to-minute mileage. In Eco mode the car does several things to improve mileage -changes shift points, fiddles with the A/C, etc, etc.
I have run tests a couple times now – a full tank driving as lightly and economically in Eco mode as possible vs another full tank in ‘just drive!’ mode and attitude (the auto stop system can be disabled by a button). My driving these days is almost exclusively city driving where the improvement shows up most clearly. My findings show about a 10 percent improvement – from 21 mpg to 23. The problem appears to be that although the car will run 27 or 28 mpg -when driving- restarting the car at every stoplight drops the mileage to 15 mpg according to that by-the-minute display. Apparently the engine is thirsty at crank-up time, ruining the overall average, and since I live in an urban/suburban area of a major metroplex, I hit a lot of stop lights.
I am sure that a 10 percent improvement in fleet mileage is a big deal for BMW but the difference between 21 and 23 mpg is not worth bothering with for me anyhow.
TL/DR: I wouldn’t bother shutting the car off while waiting for a train.
Agreed. Never again. Lesson learned, very effectively. Old habits die hard, unlike like overtaxed small batteries.
My current car (a 2014 BMW 5 series) has the automatic ‘engine off when stopped / auto restart’ feature, along with an elaborate ‘Eco’ display which allows you to track your gas mileage every minute
There is a big Beemer in my neighborhood that does that start/stop thing. I have noticed it sitting at a light and heard it restart when the light turns green.
What I think of those systems is it may be fine in a lab, where they are trying to sqeeze as much mileage out of the car as possible to meet CAFE standards, but I’m not crazy about starting an engine a lot, because you lose oil pressure every time you shut the thing off. Not only are you turning the engine with zero oil pressure on every start, but more cars than ever have turbochargers now, and they probably lose pressure to their bearings on every stop and start too.
Blame Honda!
Over on the Honda FIT forum there has been lots of chat about these little
batteries and and how fast they fail.
Most of us are putting in LEDs anywhere we can.
In general, Honda seems to underdrive its cars’ accessories and a tiny battery is in line with that sort of thinking. Weaker A/C, power steering which can’t keep up in rapid maneuvers and less than stout alternators further my suspicion. That battery is the same size as that in my fifteen year old Civic, where it works well. Every manufacturer cuts corners somewhere.
I’m a tow truck driver myself, and the moment you wrote about the blinking dash lights I knew your battery was down. Amazes me that the tow truck driver who picked you up didn’t jumpstart you using a booster instead of cables, pretty sure he knew what the problem was?
I thought the same thing initially but then I realized the tow was contracted by the Acura roadside assistance. So maybe he isn’t authorized by that contract to jump start, or he’d rather make more money by doing the tow instead of the jump start.
Sorry that this happened to you, Paul, but I read about your experience with interest as I have noticed that my TSX wagon (2011, bought five months ago) starts a lot harder on cold mornings than I would expect. Now I know why…
Paul, as an Acura salesperson I can tell you firsthand that as awesome as these cars are, their batteries are weak and horrible. We have issues with them sitting on the lot for only a few days. Even with them being started every other day they still go dead and have to be replaced very often. The blinking lights on the dashboard that you described are an indicator that the battery is low/nearly dead. I think you will have issues with your battery again, so you may want to see if your dealer will help you out by replacing your existing battery and/or prorating a new one. If not, maybe a good replacement from Sears or Autozone may be in order, especially if your car sat for a year on the dealer’s lot. We just sold the last 2014 TSX Sportwagon that we had on the lot and it needed a new battery from sitting so long too.
I hope you are enjoying your car. It truly is a great vehicle (except for the battery LOL!!)
Don’t know if they have outlets in the PNW but have tested Interstate Batteries produce from tractor batteries to rebuilding the 18Vbatteries in my rechargeable drills. They have a repeat customer in me.
Just bought a 42 month Interstate from Costco for $69.99!
We had a very similar problem with our 2009 Accord, but from a slightly different cause. We got food at Wendy’s, then drove down to the waterfront to sit and eat it. As we came down through the hollow toward the bay, it seemed a little dark and I turned the lights on. We found a good spot, ate, watched the boats and the birds, and when we were ready to go, no start. Called for a jump, the car started immediately, and off we went.
Since we had stayed in the car after we turned off the engine, the usual lights-on warning didn’t happen.
This was the summer before last, and we may well be on borrowed time with that battery – last time the car was at the dealer for servicing they said it was “marginal”, but we haven’t had a problem with it. We don’t tend to use the seat heaters much, but I often sit in the car and listen to the radio for 5 or 10 minutes with the engine off, an indication that the radio doesn’t draw much current.
I always carry a jump start pack with me, just in case. But in your case, jump starting didn’t work. I suspect the dead battery was sucking up all the power from the other one. I have had that happen. Removing the negative cable from the battery and connecting the jumper cables to the positive post on the battery, and the ground CABLE, not the battery, will take the battery out of the circuit. However, I mostly work on vintage cars without computers. you have to be very careful on computer cars not to fry something.
+1000 on avoiding an Acura dealer. I get most of my batteries from Autozone, and have had good luck with them. I would avoid those super expensive batteries like Optima. They don’t last any longer than regular batteries. The fleet department I used to work for used them for a few years, and finally realized that. They went back to regular batteries at about half the cost.
I’ve been in the habit of turning off my 2013 Nissan’s engine at long lights. Guess it’s time to stop doing that. Too bad because idling time can use up to 5% of a tank of fuel if you do a lot of city driving like I do. There’s this one mile long stretch on the way home that is downhill from one light to the next where I can get up to speed and then kill it and coast to the stop, having a stick means I can simply roll start with the clutch if it turns green.
Thanks for the recommendations on batteries. My car just turned 2, so I should be able to get one more year out of the battery, then have it tested in Fall 2016.
I do this kind of stuff with my Xbox all the time. The real problem is that I left the Acura in ON, which left on the seat warmers. In ACC, that wouldn’t have happened.
On downhills your fuel injection system will shut off the fuel. Turning off the engine while waiting for a long train is not a bad thing, because your engine should start just as well as it did before. Seat heaters do suck a lot of power, just like an electric oven warming up (I get charged for peak power demand in peak hours), or worse, an electric cloths dryer.
After running my SRX’s battery all the way down, it lasted about 5 more years and then showed signs of needing replacement, which I did. It was an expensive battery (from Interstate), something like $300 maybe.
The CTS is getting a new windshield today, and they are expensive.
Hey Paul, you might enjoy this 😉
“This Battery Has Lasted 175 Years and No One Knows How”
Cool. Although the title is a bit misleading (not surprisingly).
My ’13 Outback is actually a little slow starting here in our brutal Houston winter. I was hoping I’d get another year out of the battery, but 3 years is the max I’ve ever gotten out of one down here…
Seat heaters FTW. Better yet if the seats are cloth….I’m not a big leather fan.
It’s the summers and low water level that kills ours. I try to break into them so that I can add water but the past couple batteries I couldn’t.
Today I checked on a couple of things related to the seat warmers in my CTS
1. they do shut off and do not restart when the engine on/off button is pushed to stop the engine.
2. the rear seats (not middle) also have warmers that the rear passengers can turn on.