Big news! The 2025 Camry is here. Yes, hold onto your hats, CCers, it’s practically the dawning of a new age because while geologic history is measured in epochs, the Holocene is subdivided according to generations of the Toyota Camry. The outgoing model finally got the attention of enthusiast outlets for strong handling dynamics and then cranked it up another notch with a TRD version. Toyota was looking serious. Hot on that momentum comes this redesign, and you must ask yourself: am I ready for it?
It debuted at the LA Auto Show last week…aaaannd landed with a dull thud among the automag comment boards. Kind of like every Camry debut, come to think of it, except perhaps the 2018. This comes soon after the hyper-conservative 2023 Accord redesign, which also generated a lot of disappointment nearly everywhere outside the Ministry of Ethically Questionable Corporate-Media Relations at Car and Driver, who put it straight on the 10 Best list without even fully testing it. They assigned one of their better writers to justify this, but geezus–only the purest of loyalists failed to see straight through that one. Honda apparently has no dirt on MotorTrend leadership, because that outlet has given more balanced reviews.
Not the kind of headline Honda is accustomed to seeing. They’ll find an auto journalist out in the desert for this, you mark my words.
The cause of these unenthusiastic responses is the palpable and surgical elimination of high output powertrains from both cars, and it speaks volumes about both the future of the midsize sedan and of accessible performance. The Camry is now 100% hybrid. No more V6. No more top-shelf powertrain at all. It is 2.5-liter 4 cylinder + electric motors for everyone and if you don’t like it you can lump it.
It is just the latest tremor from the shifting tectonic plates of the automotive sector. In a world of contracting midsize sedan sales and emphasis on fuel economy, Toyota is paring back to the thickest part of the Bell curve and the slow-selling V6–as with the manual Accord a few years ago–no longer makes the cut. Overextend yourself to engineer and certify powertrains with a low take rate, and your margins begin to thin, fracture, and tilt like the crust of the Great Basin.
Honda made the move first, replacing the quick 2.0T with a “performance” hybrid last year and thus nailing the coffin closed on any lingering notion that the Accord is an FWD sports sedan. Some thought this left an opening for Toyota to wrest the enthusiast’s crown from Honda, but this was irrational exuberance. Toyota and Honda are reading the same tea leaves.
Toyota was clear about the 2GR V6 going away, and the new 2.4-liter turbo they’re loading into CUVs in its place isn’t quite capable of replicating its performance. In a Camry it would likely match the new Accord hybrid’s 6.5 second run to 60 and then leave it far in the dust by the quarter mile, but it would do so at a big mpg penalty and without the 2GR’s smoothness and enthusiasm. There’s really no market for that, although Nissan, Subaru, and Hyundai are still offering thirsty optional horsepower to those few disenfranchised shoppers. For now.
Put the cheese grater down and step away from the vehicle, sir.
We all expect more of this, I think. North America has been a holdout against low-displacement engines and widespread hybridization but that’s been coming to an end in several popular vehicle classes. These are global manufacturers responding to global market and regulatory forces and North America can only steer them so far. Hybridization is a large part of the foreseeable future, and Toyota is a master of it. The Sienna. The Highlander. The Grand Highlander. Big vehicles with hybrid powertrains delivering a combination of acceleration and fuel economy unimaginable a decade ago. Even the Prius can nearly outrun my Fiesta ST now.
This new Camry might, as well. Toyota cites 225-232 horsepower for the new one, depending on FWD/AWD. That’s not a big number but it somehow propels the 4,000 pound Crown to 60 in 7.2 seconds and the quarter mile at 91 mph in C&D’s instrumented test, which is quicker than you’d expect from the rated output. The lighter Camry could be high-6s and mid-90s. I could clutch-dump the Fiesta all I want and still not beat it down the onramp. My Fiesta doesn’t get 50mpg. Or have 100 cubic feet of passenger space. That’s food for thought. A slow and noisy last-gen Prius doesn’t interest me but a quiet Camry with these specs doesn’t seem half bad at all.
While the electrified future raises some hackles here, there are distinct advantages having nothing to do with the environmental responsibility aspects that irritate some of us. I was briefly in Singapore last year–among the highest per capita income nations in the world–and a substantial portion of the cars there were small displacement hybrids, including the hideous Alphard luxury van that requires serious money to buy. All were capable of whisking along quite nicely and it made for a refreshingly quiet and nerve-free urban core. Engine thrash and exhaust roar suck for everyone but the narcissist behind the wheel, and if I could wave a magic wand to make my own neighborhood a refuge from brodozers and hogs Powerstroking their egos up our street while little kids plug their ears and wince, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Alphard. You can stop complaining about the styling of North American Toyotas now. And really, if this 188hp luxury hybrid is good enough for the nation that made the Changi Airport and brought us Crazy Rich Asians, it should be good enough for you.
So should we rejoice in this electrified future? Or pack up for the UAE to torch off as much gasoline as possible while broiling in a desert hellscape for which the fuel consumption of its car culture is only helping crank the thermostat? Well, I’m not thrilled about the idea of EV-only, but I’m coming around on hybrids. The phrase “First World problems” exists for a reason and we’re a tad spoiled if we believe large, quiet, confident sedans capable of 0-60 in 7 seconds and 50 mpg is truly an erosion of our quality of life. But then, hybrids are not very engaging even by commuter car standards, and I’m still looking around for that nice 3.5L Lexus sedan that chugs at 24 mpg. Hypocrisy, find thyself in the mirror.
Anyway, enough about me and my peculiarities. How about you and this new Camry? Does this still look like a stalwart ally of America’s middle class? It’s not a full redesign as the commenters are fond of shouting about, but it didn’t need to be. The TNGA platform is really quite good and fully competitive already. The profile and greenhouse are still sharp, although they missed an opportunity to make it truly good looking by keeping the oversized grill. Should’ve grafted the new Prius’s entire face on there rather than only the headlights.
Fabric on the dashboard, that’s unusual. The Cruze and Malibu were made fun of for this, but I never understood that. I’ve always liked the idea.
I’m not sure if anyone shares my ambivalence about the dashboard design. I was fond of the creative swoop of the outgoing dash, it was nice to see such inventive flair in a mainstream car. This new interior was designed entirely around the enormous LCD screen everyone has been conditioned to demand now. The dash is bland and indistinct and the vents and climate array are compressed into thin strata beneath the screen’s hulking mass. All the enjoyable design language of the outgoing car has been removed.
Camry is sporty! We mean it! Look at the RED!
Fundamentally, though, this is going to be a refined and well-executed sedan with an impressive blend of power and efficiency for a fraction of the average new vehicle purchase price. It’ll be cheap to fuel, quiet, ride well, and handle all but technical roads with composure. The Accord will be much the same but continue to steer with more purity and suffer from road noise. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
I ain’t excited, but if my future held a Camry or Accord hybrid I wouldn’t be stretching for Orwellian references. Modern hybrids are too good for that. If it’s the future, it isn’t a dystopia. In the meantime, where in the hell is that damn GS350 I’ve been looking for? They’re thin on the ground and I’m not quite ready to welcome the hybrid overlord onto my driveway just yet.
Pour one out for the legend.
I’m all for it. After my wife’s Altima was totaled last year we searched far and wide for a new Camry Hybrid. Found one in Wisconsin after a bit of searching and it’s been a wonderful car. Smooth, comfortable, quiet and has been getting upwards of 52mpg on the highway here in flat Iowa. And at $32k new out the door (lowly LE trim) it’s a tremendous value).
I haven’t been behind the wheel of a Camry hybrid since 2010 or so. Itvwas quick but the efficiency gains were smaller than today’s. I tried the latest gen hybrid in the RAV4, however, and that was impressive in both power and efficiency.
I used to have an AWD GS and it was fantastic- I sometimes look on Cargurus for them, they are not tough to find. Look harder.
I also used to drive assorted V8 Lexii, 2 LS sedans and an SC coupe. Of course they were great, but lately I’ve been quite happy with theoretically “less”…… I have 2 Camrys, one driven by my youngest, also a Prius and a RAV4 Hybrid. From direct experience I can say, fear not the Hybrid. The added boost from the electric motors makes the Hybrid Rav over a second quicker to 60 than the full ICE version. Switch over to Sport mode and she scoots.
Back about 10 years when we bought our first Prius, we had a dealer loaner of a Hybrid Camry and I loved it – I said then that it felt like they were using the electric aspect as almost a booster, it felt much sprightlier than a base model. I’m good with the all Hybrid lineup – I will turn to other vehicles when true raw performance is on the menu.
They’ve been thin in the Salt Lake area since I’ve been looking. I need that final test drive with the family to know if it’s th one. Then I’ll fly to another urban centroid for the right one and drive it back, if needed.
Ironically enough, my wife and I were talking about the 2025 Camry just this week – prompted by chatting with a friend who’s looking for a new car.
After that conversation it occurred to me that I’ve become one of Them: I’m now one of those people who look at cars as appliances, and I’m mainly interested in cars that just suit my needs, as affordably as possible. In that regard, I admire the Camry, and for that matter hybrids in general seem to fit the requirements in a number of ways.
Regarding hybrids, I find full electric vehicles to be unappealing, but I’ve warmed up to hybrids. They have a number of advantages, the technology seems proven by now, they’re not range-limited, and they’re not snooty status symbols like electrics. Granted, I’ve never driven a hybrid, but in real-world driving I wonder if I’d really notice much of a difference between a 225-hp hybrid Camry and the departed V6. I realize the hybrid is probably less engaging from a driver’s standpoint, but would I really miss that engagement all that much? I don’t know.
I do shed a tear for the loss of actual sports sedans, but in reality, modern sport versions seem to come in packages that don’t appeal to my sense of practicality – things like ultra low-profile tires, lots of gadgets, and excessive prices. Again, I want cars that satisfy my needs as practically as possible, and I’d probably choose the non-sport models anyway.
Your sentences here sum it up for me:
I apologize to my former self for being boring, but that’s exactly what I’ll be seeking in a new car.
You put into words the thoughts I had after reading this. I am one of THEM too. Or, does that now make THEM into US?
I’ve become One Of Them.
With modern cars, it’s almost silly not to be – the basic levels of competence of even the most basic car makes the “enthusiast” stuff pretty irrelevant. For example, when the tires on some lowest-level Nissan are themselves of a tech (and width) that means there IS no actual bad-handling car in 2023, it means that one’s wish for a ‘good-handling’ or ‘connected-to-the-road’ car is just nostalgia.
But I’ve got to agree with JPC that to be interested in ordinary cars, or the ordinariness of cars, is the very reason there’s a community called CC, and must mean that the THEMS are indeed all now us. In fact, when you think about it, we’ve been photographing “their” cars for years.
So, hello, literally everybody!
Even owners of white Camrys.
Good assessment and perspectives. Toyota is capitalizing on their dominant hybrid tech which now costs them no more than a regular IC power train.
EV adoption in the US (7%) is way behind that of China (30+%) and EU (25+%). Hybrids are clearly the interim solution, and Ford and Stellantis are cranking up their hybrid offerings. Meanwhile, GM decided to “skip” hybrids, but they’re having massive issues in getting their EVs up to speed. That could become a problem. Time to bring back their ill-fated Dual-Mode hybrid?
I think the problem with EV adoption is the automakers went too big, too soon. “Never mind the demand, look at the profit-per-unit” seems to have been the mindset.
There’s a large under- and soon to be un-served market for cars like the Bolt and the Leaf bought by people who either simply don’t make long road trips or have another IC car in the household for that, but by making a $50k midsize crossover the minimum buy-in and racing to build full-size “lifestyle” pickups they pushed open-road rapid charging as a bigger issue than it would be if they emphasized city/”second” cars and pure work trucks in configurations used in fixed urban-suburban route service.
As for GM’s “leapfrog” strategy, the other day I parked next to a hybrid Malibu which was a car I’d forgotten existed, so it looks as though “and-also” would’ve been a smarter strategy.
There’s also the ongoing problem that battery EVs make the most sense for homeowners with garages, and are not very practical for urban apartment dwellers who have to park on the street (or even in off-street parking with no provisions for battery charging). If I got a hybrid vehicle tomorrow, I could park and use it immediately with no problems. If someone gave me an EV, I would have significant problems finding a place to charge it, which couldn’t be at home.
Toyota’s early adoption and refinement of hybridization looks brilliant at this point. I’m curious if their slow start on full EV is going to cost them, or if HEV and PHEV will cover it.
History repeats. Pundits predicted the death of performance cars at the dawn of the1970s. The malaise decade that followed seemed to prove them right. Except that performance cars did eventually return better than ever.
Performance may die again – for awhile anyway. We might not recognize the guise of tomorrow’s high performance vehicle from today’s vantage point, but I’m betting something will reappear.
It’ll probably be more centered on handling and overall driving experience since there’s such a low barrier to high HP numbers and low 0-60 with electrification that it was the first thing checked off. Hyundai is already getting ready to roll out the Ioniq 5 N.
This is much more articulate about the issue and Toyota’s direction than I could be; I enjoy reading other car nuts’ opinions about the situation.
I am a dedicated critic of electric cars – primarily for safety, range and infrastructure concerns. Electric will never work for/interest me. I do understand hybrids and could live with one probably though I am still a skeptic about the (big) battery itself for the long term. And I do not like a CVT. Does a hybrid drive system mandate CVT? I don’t know.
So I feel lucky to have purchased a ’21 Corolla hatchback with ICE and a very nice six speed manual. It is a pleasure to drive a manual; that transmission is no longer available in a Corolla. This fine car is going to have to be a long term keeper until/if I can come around to a hybrid. It was not my prescience about Toyota’s future strategy that made me buy the Corolla; I just wanted a manual hatchback and like Toyota quality. I am thankful I got the car.
The Big Boy hybrid option on the Toyota Crown uses a 6spd and makes over 300 horsepower. But thats a $55K car. The expensive lexus LS and LC six cylinder hybrids also pair a 4spd tonthe planetary CVT to produce something like 10 ratios.
I’ve wanted to try a Corolla 6spd hatch since they launched. They look great inside and out and reviews suggest it’s still fun to drive and Toyota didn’t harshen the ride and amp up road noise chasing the civic. Cool cars.
Appreciate this thoughtful review and more balanced perspective on the whole IC/Hybrid/EV issue. I have always found hybrids fascinating from a technical standpoint and have shopped them in the past, but was unsuccessful in either negotiating a price or finding one in dealer inventory. EVs leave me cold, for some reason, and I agree that they tend to be passionless devices. I am, however, at that point in life when my auto enthusiasm is no longer a primary consideration in a buying decision and just want something that works with a minimum of pain and fuss.
I certainly hope Toyota finds success with this latest iteration of the Camry. It’s a supremely competent vehicle and, as a sedan, attainable to a great many buyers versus another overstyled CUV. I sincerely hope that the auto industry is forced to reconsider its recent efforts to raise prices by eliminating sedans, smaller vehicles and base models. Most Americans have little viable public transit in their areas and are car-dependent whether they want to be or not. With hybrid technology now competitive with IC tech cost-wise, Toyota may be showing the way of the future.
Thanks William. I understand the desire to move from “enthusiastic” autos to ones that are simply comfortable and stress free. I’m still kind of dead-set on something a little more engaging right now, but a part of me just wants to grab a V6 ES350 and let it glide serenely over the embarrassingly poorly maintained roads of my city. Old man car? You bet. But perfect for that part of my environment.
If I’ve got any disappointment in the upcoming Camry, if that it’s only a hybrid and not a plug-in hybrid (with a 50+ mile electric range) capable of being driven as an EV for daily commuting but still capable of doing 600 mile road trips without advance searching for charge points.
As much as I’m a devotee of the pure EV, I’ll still admit to keeping my Kia minivan for those long reenactment trips because we’re a few years away from the EV charging infrastructure necessary to doing a long trip without a bit of pre-planning.
And, except for pure performance cars, I really believe that everything for sale today that’s not an EV should be a plug-in hybrid.
“we’re a few years away from the EV charging infrastructure necessary to doing a long trip without a bit of pre-planning”
For my region, it’s even worse than that and no pre-planning will enable an EV to cover the distance in anything close to the time of an ICE or hybrid. Last year on the way back from California to Utah, I noticed a number of EVs plodding in the right lane of the interstate at speeds below that of the 18-wheelers because the charging options are so far-spaced on that route. We arrived home literally hours before an EV would have been capable. There’s some work to be done out West.
The new Camry looks just like the old Camry. Seems more like a refresh than a new design.
I personally do not trust the trend towards turbos and CVTs. Turbos do offer more power than NA engines, but at the cost of long term reliability. They are expensive to replace and repair. CVTs are also expensive to maintain, just look at Nissan message boards to confirm. Although in Toyota’s defense the Prius CVT is one of the best.
The planetary gearset CVT in Toyota hybrids is mechanically dissimilar to a belt and pulley CVT like those in Nissans. I think Nissans problem was JATCO cheaping outon the design or construction of theirs. Honda and Subaru are neck deep in belt and pulley transmissions for their core models; and I’m guessing they are more durable than the early JATCOs. If they fail they’d be in a world of hurt and Honda doesn’t generally make mistakes that large.
I can’t say I’m surprised. CAFE is real and w/o EVs to bring that number up it is pretty much impossible for a vehicle with that large of a foot print to hit its target. The only thing I’m surprised about is the lack of a PHEV version since they added that to the RAV-4 a while ago. I do think the looks have improved over the outgoing model but as someone else mentioned they should have done it more in the style of the latest Prius, even more so since they have gone all hybrid with it.
I’m been buying Hybrids and PHEVs exclusively for our primary vehicles for a decade now and wouldn’t consider any gas only power train for such use. So no crying from me about the Camry going all 4cyl Hybrid.
Hasn’t Toyota really struggled to meet even a fraction of the demand for the RAV4 Prime? Perhaps why no there’s Camry PHEV yet?
I saw a story this morning that Ford has cancelled production of the consumer versions of the Explorer and Aviator Hybrids to allocate production capacity for the police version (Explorer). The article implied that the take-up rate on hybrid and even EV police cars was increasing. Locally, I’m seeing a lot of new city and CHP Chargers, perhaps in anticipation of their demise. I’ve only driven two Camrys, a first-gen which was dull but competent, and a 2012 which was disappointing. We owned a 2nd gen Prius for many years and found the hybrid to be a good solution even with 2004 tech. If I were in the market for a sedan I’d be pretty interested in the current Prius. Thanks Petrichor for a good assessment balancing facts and informed opinions.
I’m not surprised this is the juncture we’ve reached in Camry-dom, and it makes far too much sense for this not to have been on the horizon. I’m not complaining, either. The hybrid drivetrain plays off all of the Camry’s perceived strengths; refinement, efficiency, “responsibility”. Cheers, I say, and I’ve no doubt this will continue to be the dominant player of the category.
What does somewhat surprise me, however, is how the Corolla and its recently expanded hybrid offerings are seemingly being kept relatively hush-hush. Updated powertrain from the ‘22’s traded more (needed) power for a few MPGs, and while it’s still “slow” to most people, it’s on par with Civic LX’s and many entry level CUV options now. I have the idea of one of these floating around in my head because it’s right-sized for me and is ultra rational; an LE AWD gets 51/44/48 combined MPG and is $25,790 out the door. A wildly good deal for something considering that kind of fuel economy and all-wheel drive. Forgo the AWD and save a couple thousand while gaining a few MPG if you so choose. I now live on a concerningly steep grade in a state with 4 months of frozen precipitation, so the on-demand AWD of that Corolla is looking mighty good to me at the moment.
I forgot the hybrid Corolla could be had with AWD. Yes, $26k is a bargain for something with that capability and it’s a unique product in the class
Thank you, but I’ll PASS and keep my 2020 Honda Accord EX with its 1.5L turbo 4. The car runs CLEAN and in warm weather easily gets into lo 40s for mpg. Now that it is colder it is down to mostly mid 30s. The new-you will like them-Accord hybrids are NOT a car I am interested in buying…..at all. My area Honda dealer tells me that he has encountered others that are also not willing to buy a hybrid Accord…oh-oh???
The CVT may be contributing to the excellent mileage, but personally I’d much prefer a good automatic transaxle that I could manually control when I wanted to.
Hopefully no deer or distracted, texting “drivers” will cross paths with my 2020 Accord, or my Camaro!! DFO
The Accord still comes with the 1.5T + CVT standard, so if you whack a deer you’re not out of luck yet. but it’s a lower trim powertrain now. If you want a loaded Accord, it’s hybrid.
Revisiting this, Dennis, I am genuinely curious about why the hybrid is so unappealing to you compared to the 1.5 + CVT. Granted, that little turbo is a very competent and efficient powertrain, but I found it so unengaging and bland in its operation and pursuit of efficiency that it may as well have been a hybrid. The Accord CVT doesn’t even have manual transmission ratio controls for engine braking; they removed all driver involvement.
Can’t wait for the earth to cool down when we’re all driving hybrids. I’m sure the weather will be better also. No more storms!
I read on another forum that Toyota claimed that they could build a minimum of eight hybrid powertrain cars with the amount of rare earth minerals used in a single full electric. I used to live and work in the L.A. area and even in the Bay Area there are times when there is backed up stop and go traffic, that lasts for many miles. This is perfect for hybrids as the car will run on electricity during this time, saving fuel and emitting less pollutants.
As a practical matter for me, hybrids don’t have many benefits. I’m retired and don’t commute, when I do venture out it’s usually after rush hour and traffic is light. Most of my mileage is from long weekend road trips, where a hybrid wouldn’t have an advantage. I could probably save a couple of bucks on gas used while running local errands, but as a used car buyer/owner I’m not paying on a 30,000+ dollar car loan. So what’s a few extra bucks at the pump?
Most of my cars return mid to high 20’s real world fuel economy which is easy for me to live with. They are all large powerful vehicles which serve my purposes of the moment. As I work my way up to newer used cars I’ll probably consider a hybrid as there will be many used ones for sale.
Performance? Almost any new car is plenty quick. Who needs a car that goes 0-60 in less than seven seconds? I’ve got a Mustang GT that is a lot quicker than that, but I don’t need all of my vehicles to be that quick. I know lots of people who complain about low fuel economy, but rocket away from every stop light and constantly drive at speeds of 80 mph. on local freeways.
The raw material aspect of pure EVs concerns me, hybrids seem far more sustainable on that front. Though I’d love to hear an industry insider’s opinion.
I get what you mean about short driving distances easing the blow of low mpg. My commute is very short so the poor mileage of my 4Runner is tolerable. Most of it’s miles are from trips where its capabilities are being somewhat used.
This is changing quickly. LiPo (lithium iron) batteries are becoming rapidly more popular, and skip the cobalt. Lithium is hardly a “rare earth”; it’s extremely widely available and prices have been dropping rapidly all this year or more.
And the first EV with sodium batteries has launched in China. Sodium is dirt cheap, and these batteries offer many advantages. These will threaten to replace lithium altogether.
I’m really kind of surprised that the V-6 Camry survived as long as it did. Without doing a deep dive into Camry sales figures, my understanding is that it had always accounted for less than 10 percent of U.S. Camry sales — the mid-level four-cylinder auto being the volume seller by far — and that that was a big part of why no one really sweated the similarities between a Camry V-6 XLE and a Lexus ES. I tended to assume that the V-6 flagships of these big D-segment sedans were overrepresented in magazine tests.
The performance of the new Camry hybrid, incidentally, is about the same as the very rare manual-transmission XV10 Camry V-6 CE of the ’90s, and better than a ’67 Impala SS 427. The Camry doesn’t scream “fun machine” regardless (although my understanding is that the SE versions of the current model, which I haven’t driven, are quite competent), and the hybrid powertrain makes a lot more practical sense.
I’m guessing it was fairly inexpensive to continue offering the V6 because it was also being used in very profitable high-volume vehicles like the Highlander, Tacoma, and that ES. The writing on the wall occurred years ago when that V6 was removed as an option on the base model Camry and restricted to the expensive top trims only.
The Camry’s platform mates had more obvious need for the V-6, so it makes sense in that respect, but the V-6 models’ role in the Camry lineup has always been so minor that dropping them doesn’t seem like a sea change in the direction or character of that line.
I agree. A coworker recently took possession of his 23 Camry Hybrid that gets 48-52 mpg on daily commute. If it was a plug-in with 50+ mile battery range he could skip gassing up the majority of the time. Frustrating as many other manufacturers have had plug-in options for some years now. I believe a plug-in hybrid Camry is almost certainly going to come out in the next couple years. Hybrid Plug-ins are the killer app while we wait for the charging network to be built out and mature in terms of user experience.
I am a very satisfied owner of a 2015 Camry Hybrid. I’ve had it since new, and it has the same legendary reliability that Toyotas are known for. In nearly 9 years of ownership and almost 88K miles, I’ve only had to replace filters, fluids, wiper blades, a couple of light bulbs (not the headlights) and just purchased the 2nd set of replacement tires.
Lifetime fuel economy is 41.9 mpg, calculated the old-school way of dividing miles driven by gallons consumed. (The trip computer tends to be 2-3 mpg optimistic.) There isn’t much difference between city/highway fuel usage, with the exception of long trips in the winter in hilly terrain, such as central VA to Pittsburgh, PA, when mpg drops to the upper 30s.
The 2025 car is very appealing; I just wish Toyota would drop the Darth Vader bigmouth grille. And I agree with Syke and androids that a plug-in variant would be ideal — looking forward to a Prime in a year or two.
42mpg is better than I expected from that generation of hybrid Camry. That’s quite good. Our 2016 Camry has similar miles on the odometer as yours and has also been drama-free. It has the 2.5-liter gas-only with 6 speed auto. It’s a solid and well-behaved example of the breed, but it tops out at 37-38mpg highway and in mixed driving it’s under 30.
I do admit to light-footing the accelerator pedal but otherwise not resorting to extreme hypermiling techniques that would annoy drivers behind me. In free-flowing traffic on expressways, I simply set the adaptive cruise control to the speed limit, usually 65-70 mph in the areas I frequent, and stay in the right lane except when passing.
My perspective on the “car as appliance” thing: I have no intellectual or emotional interest in my refrigerator or my electric kettle. But I sure like a reliably cold beer or quick access to boiling water to make coffee. There’s nothing wrong with appliances.
The term appliance has become a pejorative when describing a car, so I’ve taken to calling the good ones “tools”, which seems not to have been corrupted. A tool is respectable, a tool is important, a tool engenders a sense of purpose and accomplishment.
Well said! I’ll have to remember that. Of our three vehicles, our van is an outstanding tool for travel and recreation, more of a tool box than a tool. My 4wd Tacoma is a multi-tool, good at a lot of things but not ideal for most. And our Golf is very good at getting my wife to work and back reliably and fairly economically, though not Prius-level, and a lot more fun to drive. More like a paint brush or carving tool that can do a job but also create art.
Even as an avowed car enthusiast I think I’d love a vehicle such as this for a daily driver. Big, safe, super efficient and not slow. I rented a hybrid Corolla wagon in Norway for a road trip and it was fantastic. That’s when I made up my mind a good hybrid would make a fantastic practical vehicle. It never felt “slow” even with my entire family onboard driven through the mountains; sure, the steering is numb and lifeless but otherwise it handled just fine (for what it is) as I semi hustled it down mountain passes (meaning I wasn’t trying to set lap time records). And it returned a calculated 50mpg. I couldn’t believe at first how LITTLE I had to pay in gas having driven it across Norway and never being stingy with the gas pedal. For reference, I’ve driven my parents’ 2015 Prius and it IS slow and handles like a brick—the hybrid Corolla wagon drove MUCH better and was much faster.
This Corolla wagon?:
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/toyota/corolla-touring-sports
Looks excellent in 2.0-liter trim, but predictably we only get the crossover version here.
Yup, in LHD. I’m not sure if it had the 1.8L or the 2.0L but I was never really in want of “mo powah”. Its proportions looked quite spiffy IMHO too.
Still a hard “—- no” from me.
Elaborate?
Typically excellent analysis from Petrichor, and great comments (and, a bit yawnfully, some typically troglodytic responses from certain troglodytes in the comments, but anyway).
I’d buy this high-quality, GTO-fast, modern-stylish – by which I mean “ugly” – roomy, comfortable, fine-handling and fuel-sipping product in a heartbeat, for the reason it’s a damn good car. It’s also possible I’ve become entirely One of Them (Eric 703 above), but I suspect that I always slightly was. By which I mean, a liker of latter-day “ordinary” cars where the difference to the brand-name glory cars (BMW, Mercedes, etc) is essentially meaningless.
It should also probably be said that Toyota have been identified as gigantic lobbyists for fossil-fuel power, and that that is almost certainly a product of decisions – probably (again) at board level – that they had laid all their bets on hybrid and had thus (and do thus) need to back the decisions made, politically.
For all talk of EV’s sometimes-unsuitability, I reckon we need to hear from someone like Our Man In Colorado, Jim Klein, who has described on CC really well the surprising practical realities of EV usage. I can only make the anecdotal comment that there’s literally three Teslas in my (posh-area) street that are street-parked, who seem to make it work.
My point is that the Camry update is doubtless a fine machine, but isn’t the future, and Toyota will continue to promote hybrididity as necessary in ways in which it isn’t, until their EV tech catches up.
Thanks justy. Your perspective is interesting. Toyota is playing it two ways as you note: an early green leader in hybrid technology…and the seller of some real gas pig trucks and SUVs. I do wonder what the future of the personal automobile is, whether the entire market can truly be moved to EV, when/if ICE disappears almost entirely. One thing seems certain to me; the luxury and joy of personal motorized transportation carries an environmental cost that the future will pay. I’m just unsure how high the tab will be and whether it’s worth it on the balance.
Toyotas V6 and V8 engines are and were gas pigs. I love them, but that’s the truth. The vaunted 2GR-FE in our 2016 AWD Highlander would average around 16mpg around town and struggle to average 22 on the highway. Our old 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan with the 3.3 was slightly worse as I recall. Never mind a Sequoia or Tundra (or Lexus LS) with the former V8. The new Sienna (4cyl hybrid only) will pull 30mpg everywhere and the most recent Avalon (4cyl hybrid only) that I also reviewed would do 40mpg without a sweat. As luscious as the larger-engined Toyotas were and are, the sort of “economy” they offered is piss poor, but if people want to spend their money at the gas station so be it, it’s their money. I realize that’s a lot better than in the days of yore but for my $3 or $4 (and especially $5 or $6 or even $7) gallon of gas, it’s not acceptable. Weirdly the same people that seem to be the most biased towards everyday people from the regions of the world that much of the world’s oil comes from are also the people most willing to keep sending their gas money there to build those empires, never mind sacrificing their kids’ lives and those of their neighbors kids to keep that spigot open. I don’t know if your country is the same, it’s a bit weird. I’m 54, and I think we can do better, why support that?
It’s high time the Camry is hybrid only, there is no reason for it not to be. Since now there will also be an AWD version (with electrically motivated rear wheels) it ticks most of the boxes. 50+ mpg is the icing on the cake.
I doubt there’ll be a mass produced plug in version Camry as Toyota can’t/won’t even commit to more than 10k of the RAV4 Prime plug in hybrid annually despite demand much in excess of that and the Prius Prime plug in is apparently similarly limited. Toyota makes much use of proclaiming that more small battery hybrids can be produced instead of larger battery plug-ins and full EVs, which is true, but clearly masks the apparent fact that A) Toyota has not hedged against needing and being able to use a larger and stable battery supply, B) It bet a lot of time and money on Hydrogen which is pretty much stillborn and Easter is a ways away,. and C) while Toyota finally announced “mass” production of solid state batteries, they also admit that “mass” in this case means severely limited.
That’s all fine in a way, to their credit their hybrid offerings are all excellent. Let’s not let perfect get in the way of excellent (or good enough). It’ll either work out for them or they’ll get passed in the global marketplace by someone more forward thinking.
As far as EV goes, yes Justy, it is somewhat pathetic the way some otherwise intelligent folk cling to propaganda and blatant untruths and seem unable to educate themselves or do the most basic research. Embarrassing actually. The popular press is mostly similarly embarrassing in that regard (or realizes that the leading EV player hasn’t paid out ad dollars for favorable coverage), the average “journalist” is far from meeting the definition of that title, and often is too poorly compensated to afford their own even though the average price is below the overall Average Transaction Price of all vehicles, and that the leading player by volume doesn’t give out press loaners. It’s easier and more profitable to write hit pieces. Note that there were MANY stories about EVs supposedly randomly catching fire once upon a time, then when Ford and GM got serious about trying to build and profit largely from EVs those stories went away. Hmm. Not that there weren’t some fires, however I distinctly recall hundreds of thousands of non-EV Ford’s being recalled multiple times for fire risk, as well as Hyundai and GM vehicles over the years.
As far as our Tesla is concerned it now has 34,000 miles on the clock, the panel fit is good and better than the last Cadillac press vehicle I had (and documented here), we virtually always charge at home but can charge on the road as necessary, both seamlessly and cheaply. There have been no return trips to the dealer since the first one after we purchased it (that I documented here) and when I swapped the wheels for the winter ones last week there was no measurable wear on any of the brake components and the suspension appeared in fine fettle as well. The interior is wearing well, the screen is bright and responsive (and has been updated with more features multiple times over the air), it’s big enough, quiet enough, and far faster and quicker than it needs to be (or should be, my biggest concern is teaching my teenagers to drive it, thankfully they are the responsible sort), and the biggest problem we have with it is deciding if we should trade it for another this year, next year, or perhaps wait until after the warranty expires (another year but completely unnecessary so far), to see what else may be out there at that time. I’m considering another smaller one for myself (My wife is the primary driver of the Tesla) for more local use, in that case cost is the primary criteria, as I am tiring of multiple repairs to the somewhat aging Subaru and divested myself of a newer vehicle earlier this year, never mind standing out in the cold waiting five or ten minutes to refuel it one or twice a week.
A city dweller who does not have home charging capability should probably not buy an EV other than a Tesla (or any other with proven reliable and accessible charging technology nearby), however most (not all) families in the US can make things work in their single family homes, and especially since I have yet to meet a family here in the US with fewer cars than licensed drivers can’t conceive of one that has no option beyond an EV for long distance trips if they purchase one without charging infrastructure. If every journey is of that minimum 300 miles that seems oh so common somehow, then perhaps one should consider moving closer to their most common destination… Purchase price is a factor for many, and electricity rates vary as well in different locations, for me I used to scoff at the “gas savings” that Tesla touted. Guess what? They are real. Never mind the time savings. I used to enjoy hanging out at the gas station when I was young, not so much anymore.
Regarding the “slow-moving” EV traffic that this post’s author has commented on at least twice now seeing on what I recall (hopefully correctly) is the I-15 corridor between Las Vegas and Salt Lake City, it was unclear to me if that means EVERY EV is moving slowly to extend their range or if it’s just some people who can’t seem to budget their range efficiently enough or whose vehicle does not have the capability to suggest the most efficient places and lengths to stop to recharge (yes, the better EVs do that). Over time that infrastructure will improve. Note that going from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City which is pretty much as desolate as it gets in the desert and is a distance of 420 miles (greater than the range of most EVs), there are Tesla Supercharger locations at Las Vegas, Mesquite, St George, Hamilton’s Fort, Nephi, Provo, and SLC; the largest distance between two stations listed is 115 miles. Any Tesla ever made can make that while averaging well over 80mph. I can’t speak for other vehicles, that’s their short-sighted manufacturer’s problem that they relied on others to provide for their charging needs and their owner’s problem that they purchased a vehicle ill-suited to their own reality. Note also that charging stations are getting larger, the waypoint of Kettleman City (halfway between Los Angeles and San Francisco) has a total (as of 2021) of 96 Tesla Superchargers. It’s likely to be more today. On busy traffic days normal gasoline cars can also experience long lines at gasoline stations in this and other locations for whatever that common canard is worth.
I don’t particularly care if someone likes Mr, Musk or not (he’s far from my favorite person and may in fact suffer from poorly understood and treated mental issues, not a surprise in this country) or he may just be a terrible person, then again good old Mr Ford was more than a bit of a bastard himself, as were the owners of BMW for one of a number of auto-builders… I don’t know much about Mr Farley and Ms. Barra or even Mr. Toyoda, but the Tesla cars simply work and work better than the others currently. Don’t believe all the balderdash you may hear, as with any vehicle, best to test (at length) yourself and not just take anyone’s (mine included) word for it. Opinions are like A-holes, right? There is a learning curve with EV (and perhaps especially with Tesla, it’s not as easy as a toaster), time spent with something often makes things more obvious or understandable, not everyone out there could ever program the clock on a VCR either and some are befuddled by things more complex than the choice of having cheese on their burger or not.
The American automakers (well the old ones anyway) did shoot themselves in the foot by believing that large trucks were the ones to electrify first and that people have unlimited funds, perhaps because they have lost the skill and ability to compete in most other segments. Note that in Japan the current most popular EV is a Nissan Kei car/vanlet (that I believe is a badge engineered Mitsubishi) and sells for around or under USD$15k. It’s brilliant, maybe not as an only car for anyone who criss-crosses continents but certainly for anyone with more than one car.
I spent time around and inside the entire range of BYD vehicles (Chinese, with a large stake owned by Warren Buffett, one of the oldest people in the US) vehicles a month ago (stationary, not driven) and came away extremely impressed, they are more competitive than they need to be, if given a non-protectionist (you know, “Freedom”) opportunity, they would likely wipe the floor with virtually all of the existing competition on these shores. Remember, you don’t have to be all things to all people to succeed, you just should be good and plenty of existing popular vehicles aren’t even really that.
If you don’t want an EV (or a Japanese Car or a Pickup Truck or whatever else the boogeyman is today), fine, don’t get one. Whatever. There’s no reason to come up with lies and untruths about the cars or their owners though and I for one have mostly given up trying to speak reason with those sorts of people, I just lose a measure of respect for them every time they feel a need to share.
Anyway, I’d buy the Camry Hybrid, it seems a very solid value and a fine drive, but I’d likely be more interested in a CamrE.
PS – As much as the Toyota and Lexus full-EV offerings have gotten bad press, some of it of their own doing (perhaps somehow semi-intentionally?) I had the opportunity to take a closer look at them last month and my son and I were given the opportunity to drive them on a small closed course. The course was too small to gain any real insights but I’d wager for 99% of actual people (THEM, perhaps sometimes US?) they are perfectly fine from a dynamics standpoint, the fit and finish was impeccable, interior space was good, the names carry an excellent reputation, so if the big T actually got serious or sorted out their battery issues, they could easily be a contender in that market space.
Thanks for the comment Jim. I’ll admit to being taken aback by the tone of your response, however. The Suspiciously Slow EVs on I-15 was a Sarah Palin joke in my S5 review, and this comment thread in general has been pretty even-keeled.
I’m sorry the second mention of the slow EVs seems to have rankled. But in this instance I’m citing it as a real thing. If there’s an explanation other than range for why multiple Teslas hours apart were doing 15-20mph under the limit, I’d like to hear it. Can’t imagine the owners enjoyed being passed by moving vans and motorhomes. Maybe by dumb luck I found the handful of owners who forgot to charge before heading out. Anything’s possible.
I don’t think it is an exaggeration or bias to state that EVs impose substantial time and convenience restrictions on interstate travel in the West. MotorTrend found the Model 3 could go 211 miles on a full charge at 70 mph. I-15’s speed limit is 75-80 across hundreds of miles, so start subtracting. We were caught by unannounced road work for 30 minutes in the southern Nevada summer sun, stopped dead on the tarmac and running the AC. So subtract more. Beyond being obligated to stop more frequently than I may have otherwise and in places I may not want to stop, it takes more time per mile to add range to the car. Fifteen minutes for 175 miles of charge according to Tesla, compared to 15 minutes for 500 miles in an efficient car. This stuff matters and adds up on an 11-hour drive that can be done comfortably in one day with an HEV/PHEV car. And that’s just one road trip route we’ve taken. There are numerous others I’ve done that would be a real pain in an EV. You’re right that this stuff will get sorted out in time as the network expands and technology improves, but for now it is an issue.
I do recognize that most of the population doesn’t have these requirements. And I’ve heard some baldly stupid arguments against EVs, so I get your irritation there.
Didn’t mean to rankle you. The comments of yours that I referred to one was older, (a year ago?), the other was in this post. I referenced it merely as it was a handy example of something that is easily disproven, i.e. that stretch is by no means a “charging desert”, at least not for a Tesla, can’t speak for the other brands. The second part is that yes an EV is not perfect for everyone OR for every stretch of road. However it also doesn’t mean that just because someone has an EV they HAVE to use it for every possible trip. We certainly don’t. We also didn’t use the minivan every time we had five people going somewhere nor did we use the pickup truck for every single trip to Home Depot.
Look up the stations yourself, this link shows them and takes you to the Mesquite location on the referenced route.
https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=37.190436174552325%2C-113.0450965%2C36.41302287191603%2C-115.1544715&zoom=10&filters=store%2Cservice%2Csupercharger%2Cdestination%20charger%2Cbodyshop%2Cparty%2Cself%20serve%20demo%20drive&location=MesquiteNVSupercharger
Zoom out or drag the curser to see the others on that stretch or nationwide for that matter. The red ones are the Superchargers (there’s a legend), most commonly in groups of 8 or 12 on this part of the route when you clock on one, the black ones which I did not mention are destination chargers (slower at hotels etc). Clicking on one shows the number of chargers, max charge speed, and nearby amenities. When in a car using the screen, tapping a location (when using the nav all stations show up on-screen as “pins”) also shows the number of chargers currently occupied and the cost of the power to charge (across state lines it can differ significantly, its useful to know in advance when there are two stations nearby across a line).
I couldn’t tell you either for certain why drivers were crawling. The way a Tesla works (and some others now), you enter your destination (such as Home) when you leave wherever you were, the car suggests when and where you stop and for how long to get to where you are going as quickly and efficiently as possible with the least amount of charging time as possible, this of course also includes transit time off the highway to the station. If you drive over what it assumed is a reasonable/normal speed or there is a headwind or whatever and use more power it readjusts, if you are caught in slow-moving construction traffic and use less energy it also adjusts the other way. You know that it isn’t about filling from zero to 100%, in fact it’s far faster to fill a portion several times rather than more fewer times, counterintuitive from a gasoline perspective but it’s how EVs work. Like I said that stretch has a maximum 115 miles between stations, there is no reason to be caught out. Note that stopped with the HVAC cranked a good EV with a heatpump system will likely use less energy than a gasoline car will to produce the same amount of heat or cooling. It’s less of an issue than most think.
It’s possible these were rental Tesla’s? I have no confidence that anyone at Hertz could explain how an EV works to a tired renter that just wants to get going. Nor that the average renter would do any research before setting off. I probably would not either. Or people just start driving their own car and figure they will “fill up” at Beaver or wherever their range should theoretically them to without being aware that stuff happens. It’s possible that all chargers were in use and they decided to press on instead of waiting their turn. (Yes, that sucks, yes it’s rare on non-holidays, and one reason why stations are expanding and sometimes have portable chargers added to them temporarily). Or they aren’t even aware of what their car will do for them, not unlikely either. Heck, people somehow manage to run out of gasoline on that stretch too! And sometimes there’s a wait, just like at a Costco in a major metro area, yet sometimes people will cue there as well for 20-30 minutes to save a few pennies on gasoline.
Yes it takes longer than cannonballing it in a gasoline car. I myself do the Colorado – LA stretch occasionally as well as a more southerly route to Arizona. In my younger days non-stop was the name of the game and the higher the speed the better. Somehow nowadays (even in a gas car) I’m more loathe to spend a continuous stretch in the car and even find myself at or slightly below the speed limit in many areas. This works well with EV, you aren’t generally sitting for an hour at a charger, especially with family a 15-25 minute charge stop multiple times somehow seems to work out when one or the other of the kids is hungry, needs to use the bathroom, or whatever. Not for everyone, I understand. But nor does everyone in the world require cannonballing every trip non-stop.
You for one (and I don’t mean a tone) have three cars, I have four. I understand your house precludes installing a charger. That’s fine and is an obvious eliminator for ease of life, but what seems to not be considered in the multitude of anti-EV-rants or stances (in general) is that there is no need or even possibility in most cases for anyone to replace all of their vehicles at once yet it always seems that the one vehicle that might be considered to be replaced would be the one that would be forced to be pressed into the cross-country trip duty. Notwithstanding anything else but using you as a convenient example, you have a midsize sedan as well as an SUV that would both seem to be able to travel a distance with a whole occupant load, i.e. even if you did have an EV and could charge it for the other 95% or so of your family’s annual more local mileage you have something else for the Cannonball Run. There are obviously reasons why one or the other vehicle of yours is less attractive at any particular moment for a long road trip (i.e. the SUV may use a lot of gas and not drive as fast but if there are massive storms forecast mid-winter you’d probably take it and in midsummer you’d more likely take the front drive sedan but nothing in your situation would force you to have to use the EV for the cross-country trip every single time (or ever for that matter) if it replaced one of those two since you likely don’t exclusively use only one of your vehicles currently for every single all-day trip. Yet that’s how it’s often presented (on the internet), as an all or nothing scenario. That is what’s irritating in many/most comments.
Since I admit to (and apologize for) being a little bit of a pedant, note than an 11-hour drive in the desert is what, about 850 miles of travel? 850/175 would equal 4 stops assuming leaving full and having a charger near the destination upon arrival. Call it five stops then. 5x the 15 minutes per that you said Tesla quoted is 1.25 hours. In a gas car you generously allowed 15 minutes for the 500 mile fill-up, most online seem to think you can get off the freeway, into the station, fill up, and get back on in five minutes flat. OK, the EV takes an extra hour on that trip. Most people (better said as most families) do not wait to stop until the 500(!) mile mark after six-seven hours and then finally let everyone out of the car to take a piss, throw out the trash, and eat one meal and fill up and then get back in for the last 350 miles and last four-five hours). An hour extra doesn’t seem bad, but that’s my perspective.
My anecdotal (anecdatal?) experience seems to be that every extra person in a car equals at least one extra stop per day of driving, whether it’s family members or fraternity brothers. I.e. just you alone would need to stop at a minimum once (gas/food/piss). You and your wife it’ll be more like two stops, you and your wife and two kids means four stops minimum in one day of driving. This is why the Church bus takes forever to get anywhere 🙂 I don’t mean to force the issue though and will be the first to admit that I think the EV may take a bit longer to charge than those figures you quoted. There may not always be an empty charger or it may not charge as fast for some reason (it can happen), or whatever else. Still.
I’m not pushing YOU or anyone else to get an EV. It doesn’t affect me one iota on an individual basis. They are not perfect. They do have limitations. And some people just aren’t ready and others resist any change or progress, just like the people anti-hybrid. Fine. But none of that precludes actually educating oneself, overall the average argument is not much different than a city dweller declaring that nobody should drive an F-350. No different than you asking people what they have against hybrids on some of the comments here, presumably (and I know I should not presume) you’re asking to find out what they find to be the problem with a hybrid and perhaps would like to dispel an incorrect notion or two. Others that may be more on the fence read the comments as well and it’s a shame to influence someone that may be responsive to something with inaccurate or uninformed comments (in any respect).
I understand where you’re coming from Jim; lots of uninformed blather against EVs in particular and hybrids in general, though not on CC, for which I am grateful. This was a very well-written article by Petrichor with some well-thought-out comments from most (though not all, as Justy pointed out). I can barely read TTAC these days with all the reactionary talk, including from their chief editor.
I haven’t been out west since 2017, so I can’t comment on the availability of charging stations for EVs there. Tesla seems to have the problem solved where I live in Virginia and in states north and east of here. A new Wawa gas station/convenience store was built less than a mile from my house, and it has 8 Tesla superchargers, many of which are frequently in use when I pass by. This is obviously the way of the future.
I have to admit to being spoiled by the very long range in my Camry Hybrid, possible because all models of the 2012-17 generation have 17-gallon gas tanks. With my overall average of just under 42 mpg, I can generally go 600+ miles between fill-ups and have actually exceeded the 700-mile mark on a couple of occasions.
Still, when my wife and I go on long trips, we need to stop much more often for bladder breaks AND we typically don’t drive more than 400 miles or so in one day. This means recharging somewhere in the middle of a trip wouldn’t really be an issue with us as far as making time.
It’s nice though to travel to NYC to see our sons and typically only having to gas up once on the entire round trip, if we start with a full tank. But no doubt the 2025 Camry will have a smaller gas tank capacity to save weight.
Great comment, Jim. I’m here in Pickup Central (Texas), and 95% are carrying no load and often just one or two people. As you implied, everyone is free to make their own choices. I just can’t imagine supporting that gas habit personally.
I don’t understand why we’re not at 90% hybridization. I really don’t see a downside.
Excellent article and the comments have been very informative here.
Personally, I’m looking ahead to a full EV, but the hybrids are getting so much better, I may be rethinking that. A plug-in hybrid sounds like the perfect balance, but you can never find one. Why aren’t ALL hybrids plug-ins? It seems like a no-brainer here.
As a car enthusiast, I never in a million years would’ve even consider a Prius, but when MotorTrend picked the new one as their COTY this time around, I was intrigued at why an enthusiast magazine such as this would even go there. When I read the article, what was on paper seemed quite impressive. It would appear that the 2024 Prius and Prius Prime is “not your father’s” hybrid.
Many years ago, I finally caved to practicality and bought a Civic for my commuter car. I thought I’d hate it. I love it. Many of you rag on the CVT, and I too felt that way at one time, but I now have 116K on the clock and haven’t had any trouble with it. If I keep my right foot out of the turbocharger, I can get about 43 MPG on a highway road trip. This is even better than the EPA estimates for a 2016 Honda Civic EX-T coupe. On my commute, where the turbo charger is used much more frequently, I’m still seeing 33.6 MPG for an average.
To drive a larger car such as this Camary (or an Accord for that matter) with numbers like this? I am impressed. And performance-wise? My Civic is plenty fast enough for this old man, and does the 0-60 sprint about as fast as my Mustang. Granted that the old girl is just a 4.0L V6.
As stated above, maybe I’ve become one of THEM. I just bought my wife a Mazda CX-5. A car that has FOUR doors. FIVE if you count the business end.
Practically…. Yikes! I suppose aging isn’t for the faint of heart. 😉
I’d be very interested in a plug-in, it bridges the gap between full EV and ICE very nicely. For most commutes and errand schedules, it’s an EV with no gasoline usage but immediately becomes an efficient unlimited range hybrid for longer trips.
MotorTrend did well putting the Prius as their COTY. It’s massively improved everywhere. Well, except raw practicality. It’s not as roomy and some concessions were made for that striking style.
Thing is, I think the Prius needed a new identity. It began as the main representative of hybridization, and it both needed to look a bit distinctive but perform as a compromise-free family car that proved hybridization required no sacrifice. Now, with hybrid RAV4, Camry, Sienna, Highlander, and Corolla being fully mainstream, the Prius needed something unique in order to continue existing.
I think Toyota was brilliant in making it a desirable styling statement with excellent acceleration and handling…almost a hot hatch of the hybrid world. It’s now getting a lot of attention for being desirable rather than odd. Interesting move, I hope it sells.
Road & Track had an interesting article about the new Prius finally being an enthusiast’s car. Don’t laugh, I thought it made a very good case for that. I won’t post the link but it should be easy to find online.
Eight years ago, I hated hybrids as much as anyone could. Then I started shopping for a first car for my daughter. Setting my prejudices aside, I searched for high mpgs, good reliability and a hatchback, all under $15K. An odd-looking, fairly obscure Ford showed up among the Leafs and Priuses. The Ford C-Max (2013-18, RIP) was a fatter Ford Focus designed for the Euro market, then a decade later it was brought here as a Prius-fighter. It sold well at first, but dropped out of sight after its fuel economy didn’t meet Ford’s inflated claims.
Now, my kid traded her Ford for Forester, but I’m still driving a C-Max PHEV. Its 75,000-mile cumulative fuel economy is 67 mpg. For comparison, her C-Max Hybrid held steady at 38 mpg. Both were cheap and reliable as a car can be. I’m still happy with this PHEV and have no plans to trade for anything else. That says a lot, considering my past last car was a Mk. V GTI. Eight seconds 0-60 is fast enough, thank you. The two car share the same low-profile tires, and the Ford’s steering is as good or better as the VW’s. Rarely do you use full acceleration, but crisp, responsive steering is a gift that keeps on giving.
It’s hard to explain the benefits of PHEV technology. It’s an in-between, half-a$$ed solution, but that’s the kind of transitional time we’re living and driving in, where charging stations can be rare and unreliable. Car reviews and EPA ratings always underestimate what PHEVs can do. In EPA ratings of the C-Max, the PHEV version got only 2 mpgs more than the hybrid. Those tests are based on steady-state fuel consumption at a set speed, but that’s not how we live and drive. My PHEV gained a 45% advantage over the hybrid by doing every short local shopping trip in EV mode. Those are the 1-10 mile trips when a gas engine is least efficient, running rich to reduce emissions. My other gas car, which is capable of 30 mpg on a long cruise, reports mpgs down in the teens on such trips. When all those short errands are done without the engine, you have the ICE and the EV side each working on the tasks and applications each does best. You know, “Synergy,” as Toyota put it.
In short, my PHEV cut my gas use in half, while always remaining ready for longer trips with its 500-mile range. It was a bargain to buy and a joy to own – and it’s depreciated very little, too. My first hybrid and PHEV took me way out of my comfort zone of Euro brands and turbo engines. I only could discover the hybrid option when I was shopping for someone else’s car, without my ego involved.