What else would explain the reason to scrap what appears to be a perfectly usable gas-sipper? Well, this is the LSi model which features the gas-swilling 1.3 liter that has 33.3% more cylinders than the base version and was only rated at 39mpg city and 43mpg highway, so maybe that’s it. Some people ditch their Escalades and Navigators, others get rid of the wasteful version of the Metro.
No, but seriously, gas prices are coming down. Yet they’ll likely eventually go back up again so we might as well take this interlude to cast a jaundiced side-eye at this Geo Metro in the junkyard, one never knows if it might be the last one ever to end up here. (Spoiler, it isn’t, there’s another one four rows over but I like this color…).
This is also an opportunity to point out that 1997 was the last year for the daft idea of having a whole line of cars named Geo. Yes, it’s supposed to represent the world of cars available to GM that weren’t actually built by GM here in the US and sold by the Chevrolet division. Maybe that makes them better and GM didn’t want to tarnish them with the Chevy name? I don’t know. At least they got a decent looking logo although it reminds me of a squished basketball rather than a squished globe. Or is it a Pumpkin with lap bands?
But c’mon, how could you not fall for that doe-eyed face with the pouty little smile? It’s practically Audrey Hepburn on wheels! Alright, maybe not, but it doesn’t weigh much more than she did and if you dress it in the available black…then it’d still just be a little semi-import shitbox with black paint to most Americans.
I gleefully admit to liking this car. Of course when it was new I was in the middle of my “career” and could never be seen in something this cheap, small, and kind of domestic. That’s unfortunate as I do think I missed out. I look at every one of these that I see, and really like the styling of the three-door like this one. I even like this color! Big lights, big windows, small body, big small engine (yes that was intentional), steelies! (although I think this LSi originally came with plastic hubcaps), and even side protection for those door dings that bothered me so when parking in San Francisco with my Audis and Volvos and whatever.
There it is, bone simple in its four cylinder, 1300cc (that’s 79 cubes to those raised on numbers like 318, 350, 392, and 454 etc) or something more appropriate in a riding lawnmower to some. In 1997 it didn’t even have 16 valves, making do with the base minimum of eight (the other eight would appear the next year). It produced just under 1hp per cubic inch for a total of 70. (The extra eight valves did actually raise it to 1 full hp per cube). But it weighed under 2,000 pounds so for getting the groceries how long does the burnout really need to be?
See? It’s a semi-import since it was built at CAMI in Ingersoll, Ontario, originally a joint venture of Suzuki and GM. The same car was also built and sold as the Suzuki Swift for the US market as well as the Pontiac Firefly for Canada. There are 50 states in the Union plus 2 more if you count our neighbors to the north and the south as they sort of are counted in the auto industry political mish-mash that somehow allows cars built in completely foreign sovereign nations to be classed as domestics (more or less, depending on how you look at it or the point you are trying to make.) To say it’s confusing…doesn’t make it less so. Watch the hand, watch the hand, oh, sorry, you were watching the wrong hand. Sucker.
This one is a little crispy around the rear wheel arches but otherwise I think this angle is its best one, the hind flank. It looks modern and dare I say, even a little…sleek! It has a lot of non-GM design in my estimation, but a lot of european influence, I see some Peugeot in this angle as well as maybe a touch of southern Italian spice too. But then again, I’m not a fan of chrome and generally prefer my trim blacked out and with a minimum of it. A little dark eyeliner can lead a long way if you catch my drift.
On the fancy LSi you did get rub strips all the way around, but you still also got weight saving stickers for the badging in the back. A manual trunk latch too, not too many electronics on board this one, you have to use your muscle tone to get things done. Alas there was no key and the weight savings extended to the deletion of my favorite import car accoutrement, the trunk popper lever so we won’t be gazing into the trunk cavity today. Just imagine enough space for your groceries and a little more. The back seat folds down too for all those larger couches you really never carry yourself anyway.
While the base model with the 1.0 3-cylinder started at $8,580, the slightly more profligate LSi asked for a whopping $9,850. Of course the fun-sponge automatic likely then added a fair percentage more to that along with the optional A/C (that this one didn’t have and wouldn’t need on this surprisingly cold and wet day). So let’s call it $11,000 in 1997 dollars which is about $20k today. Back in 1997 surely you’d get a hefty discount, today people would likely be happy to pay $20k for an economical car without many microchips, in other words, in inventory!
This particular Metro is trying to channel a ’78 Malibu methinks, what with its color changing plastic dashboard here. I have no idea what occurred. Still, the seats are velooooouuuuuurrrrrr and look fairly comfortable even if not tufted, pantyclothed, or even pillowed. Or would have looked it in the showroom, on this damp day not so much. I spy at least two airbags for the quick warm embrace of a soft plastic bag in the event of a frontal collision before that lifted F-250’s steel bumper drives right through it, you, and your groceries in the luggage area. But let’s think happy thoughts!
Chevy (and GM) was right, many of their cars really didn’t need more than a speedometer, a fuel gauge and a temp gauge. But the Dashboard of Sadness in many prior GM-branded cars looked horrible due to having about a dozen other blank spaces. Actually some didn’t even have a temperature gauge. This one has just what you need, or at least think you need, presented logically, cleanly, and attractively. Being plain is fine. Being blank is not. I also have to point out the 85 (or 90?) mph speedometer. While I’m pretty sure with a slight tailwind and a downhill slope this car could break 100 and thus be well off the scale there’s no pretense of it being able to get anywhere near 160mph as such prosaic stuff as a Toyota Highlander’s speedometer might have you think but just leaves you squinting to see if you are going 38 in a 35 or whatever.
There is sadness to be seen here though. Yes, the odometer number. 120,102 miles on this. That’s just not enough to be tossed out like a sack of trash. There has to be more where those came from. Two of my own cars have done far more than that and that’s with both of them having far more bits available to go wrong on them.
You can spot the firefly in the ointment here, I extremely carefully used all my skills and training and spent an extra nanosecond composing my picture so it’s right in the middle. Yes, the three speed automatic transmission. It’s probably what broke and called for the end of this world, er, Geo. With the standard and money saver’s choice of 5-speed manual this would probably be a fun little rig while you careen about near wherever you imagine redline to be, slamming through the gears and barely breaking the speed limit but all the while grinning like a monkey flinging feces at the tourists with their gleaming white New Balance sneakers.
From this angle the dashboard almost looks like it has a sueded finish, no? Well, no, it does not, I really can’t describe what it is doing. It’s not mold either though, just a color change like a chameleon. But curiously the airbag cover is not affected, a solitary island in this stream of dashboard.
The luxury that our distant forefathers on their wooden wagons behind oxen could only dream of continues in the back seat with a plushly molded rear bench that doesn’t pretend to seat three abreast. Just two, and tuck your legs back, please. You have a cutout with a soft-ish pad for one elbow, and maybe use the other arm to hold your head upright should the lifted F-250 intrude from the rear instead. It was 1997, necks were built of sterner stuff back then apparently.
Oh Geo, I’m not ashamed to admit I would have liked to get to know you a little more, changing your name to Chevy for ’98 didn’t help though. Will I go down that path sometime in the future? Honestly, it’s likely doubtful. But you never know, I’ve been known to do some crazy shit. 43mpg would be nice, even if gas is dirt cheap again – as our gas has always been, even very recently, compared to most other places that many of our readers hail from. Still it’s more likely that someone is eventually going to regret getting rid of this gas guzzling big block of a 1.3l Metro.
Nice find Jim! I haven’t seen one in many a year, although the descendant of this car must be the Suzuki Ignis we drove in Ireland this spring.
Let’s see here, $8,590 in 1997 is $15,857 today. Ignis starts at €16,320 which is $19,710 in the US. Not bad considering the modern additions of ABS, airbags, A/C, bluetooth, and 58 mpg. Sadly not available in the US or Canada.
I always like seeing one of these Ingersoll cars, the pinnacle of my automotive tooling design career was the 2-door holding jig for the assembly line. The device looked a bit like an aluminum scarecrow, but it did the job.
This is one of those cars that I would be completely bi-polar about. The stick shift version would be a total hoot that I could be wildly enthusiastic over, but the automatic (I love the “fun sponge” description) would be completely disqualifying.
That dashboard surface and its molecular transformation into plasticized mildew is a puzzler.
“changing your name to Chevy for ’98 didn’t help though. Will I go down that path sometime in the future?” – I dunno Jim, I don’t think the name Chevy suits you. But I could maybe see you as a Chris or a Jack. 🙂
Great, that image is going to stick in my mind for a while 🙂
I’m guessing you’re right about a failed transmission being what sent this to the junkyard, but your opening discussion about gas prices impacting consumers’ car selling/buying decisions is on-point regardless. I have never been able to reconcile the notion that one should make decisions related to getting rid of one car and acquiring another due to changes in the price of gas. The American consumer’s belief that anything that happens “today” indicates a linear trend in the same direction is just nuts (to me) when it comes to decisions around something as significant as purchasing a car. But there you have it. Maybe it’s different this time (of high gas prices) around since availability of nearly any new car is limited.
I’ve come to associate “economy” cars like this Metro with being “Grandma cars”. Even as far back as 1997 it was hard to find a new car that was this significantly stripped to basics…the automatic transmission and (probably) air conditioning being the only possible luxuries. When my MiL’s Geo that was about this de-optioned died, it was mighty hard to find her something that was equally stripped and small and inexpensive. Which is exactly what she wanted…anything more was absolutely “too fancy”. She wound up with the lowest model Honda Fit (that has the CVT as her one concession to convenience in the face of luxury). This Metro definitely reminds me of that.
Ha ha…the “big block” Metro… 🙂
With the automatic and the big engine, I guess the mystique is gone. I will admit to having a small crush on the pre-Geo Chevy Sprint Turbo. When was the last time you saw one of those?
Yeah, there was some funny stuff there, worthy of Car and Driver during their glory days.
Don’t know the boneyard where this Metro is located, but it sure looks to be in good shape. If not for the ‘fun sponge’ automatic, it’d definitely be worth rehabilitating. At the very least, it’d be a terrific parts car for someone’s Metro daily-driver.
I assume GM was trying to bring back home some import customers by offering these. I suspect in this example’s case the project backfired. The big block, automatic, and that the Geo emblems with the visible bowtie are still in place, pointing to a domestic buyer who couldn’t swing a Cavalier.
It is interesting that the economics had shifted such that UAW Canadian assembly was cheaper than Japan where the earlier Sprints were made. Even the Suzuki Swift wasn’t coming from Japan. It must have been scary to Japan that it was no longer economical to build the kind of car domestically that they do best.
John, your Xenophobia is strong this week! CAMI was largely set up to built Geo Trackers – which needed to be built on this continent to avoid the United States’ protectionist chicken tax tariff that was (and apparently still is) needed due to the United States’ manufacturers believing they aren’t able to compete on a level footing in all product segments. Note that Canada got Japan built Trackers while the US got Canadian ones to sell. The Metro production filled extra plant capacity. The plant was a joint venture between Suzuki and GM and needed to be filled with product to build, otherwise GM would be losing money on it. It was also one of three plants that GM entered into partnerships with Japanese producers in order to try to learn what made them so successful. CAMI is I believe the only one of those three plants that GM still owns.
It’s always interesting when unintended consequences come home to roost – in this case the “Domestics” finding they can’t take advantage of inexpensive but good products (that presumably they thought they were, otherwise wouldn’t have wanted to sell them, right?) and just rebadge them due to the protectionism they had wanted and instead need to help build another local plant to circumvent that for their own benefit and also the “import” brands eventually setting up so much production in this country that it has ended up driving much of the domestic producers’ product off the table, reducing them to largely producing one general type of vehicle. I believe the most successful producers of cars and light trucks in Ohio in terms of numbers of units as well as profits is….Honda. In the Southern state region it is the German brands and Hyundai/Kia along with Toyota. Fifteen years ago the domestic makers and their fans were crowing about the need to be “full-line producers” to be taken seriously as a committed manufacturer, today you don’t hear that anymore…because they aren’t.
Suzuki is still alive and doing quite well in places besides the U.S., with the North American consumer the only loser.
Lest you think I’m an anti-American crusader and hate American made cars nothing could be further from the truth. Three of our cars were engineered and built in the US, one was built here but is import branded and one is an import from a manufacturer that was owned by an American automaker when it was built. I do dislike misinformation though so please stop spreading it here, there are other sites that thrive on that.
Ease off it, what you said about him sounds more “xenophobic” than anything he said…
Agreed.
Dave and MrBZ, what did I say about him?
I didn’t like his insinuations and what I considered to be wrong information presented as fact and then attempted to dispel it. It is not the first time he has done this, there seems to be a pattern. Re-read his second paragraph. There are p l e n t y of reasons why a Japanese company might produce outside of Japan beyond an assertion that building in their own country is simply non-competitive, especially when they are in a joint venture with a company in a jointly built factory that can tout the build location for their own ends.
If I’m wrong in something I write I’ll own it and correct myself.
The one point I DID forget to make is to challenge the viewpoint that someone would buy a Metro because the “could not swing” a Cavalier. Eh, I’d buy a Metro, I’d not buy a Cavalier. It has nothing to do with finances. In fact (and this is a guess so please refute it if you have other facts) it may well have been easily possible to buy a Cavalier for less money than a Metro, the Cavalier was a fully depreciated platform with massive discounts available on it for much of its life. I realize it’s a shock for some people to discover that not everyone buys either the largest or most expensive car, house, burger, whatever, that they can afford.
It’s Jim being Jim.
Chicken tax does not apply to passenger vehicles. The Tracker was not a pickup truck, nor a cargo van. The tax didn’t apply.
My understanding is that in the mid to latter part of the 1980s, imported 2door SUVs were most certainly subject to the Chicken Tax. This would have been when GM was starting to plan the selling of Trackers and is one of the multiple reasons why SUVs such as the 4Runner, Pathfinder, and Trooper as examples very quickly became 4door only in our market and did not have a 2-door option here while it was sometimes still offered elsewhere.
I assume GM was trying to bring back home some import customers by offering these. I suspect in this example’s case the project backfired.
The Sprint (and Chevy Metro before it) were a significant success in their (prime) time. They were the most fuel efficient cars on the market for years at a time when folks were still apparently concerned about that, for one reason or another. I don’t have sales numbers readily at hand, but they were very common, pretty much the default cheapest/most economical car to buy. And their rep for being very reliable and durable just fueled that success.
But by the mid-90s, with gas being cheap and folks increasingly concerned about their image, little cars like these fell out of favor.
There’s still a decent number of them on the roads (or driveways) out here.
Folks weren’t fooled for a minute in thinking this was a “genuine” domestic; everyone knew they were better than that.
Backfired? What would make you think that?
The Sprint and even more, the Pontiac Firefly, were practically cult cars in Canada. GM sold tons of them. In the 1990s, the value of the Canadian dollar was low and being made in Canada, the Firefly was a real bargain.
The 1.3 version made all of 70 hp but the car was so light it went very well. The 1.0 was perfectly adequate, too. There was a real IRS in the package, too.
Small cars are tons of fun in my opinion. They are cheaper to buy, operate and maintain. They are easier to park and maneuver on tight city streets. I can’t imagine buying a car larger than my Golf.
I meant, from GM’s point of view, that the option choices of this particular example suggest that the buyer may have been amenable to an upsale to a more profitable Cavalier. The Cav would have been about $12,500 and Chevy would have thrown in anti lock brakes, a $565 option on this Geo.
You are no doubt correct on the special appeal of the model in Canada, including vis a vie a Lordstown Cavalier. It is amazing how much the exchange rate can change in a short period. My daughter went to University in Canada from 2012-2016. When she started the exchange rate was near par and when she graduated, the Canadian dollar was down to about 75 cents, saving us a bunch versus an out of state American University.
A base Firefly was about C$8000 in 1997, a Cav about $12,000.
The Firefly was also a really nice little car to drive.
Wow I haven’t seen one of these in a while. That one looks a little crusty too. Make mine a 5 speed stick.
GM created the Geo brand because they figured customers of Honda, Toyota etc would never set foot in a Chevy dealer. Apparently it was a failed effort as the Geo brand disappeared quickly. Also part of the reason Saturn was created.
I don’t think it was a failed effort. Geos of all stripes were quite popular, especially the Metro. But the market for small cars was shrinking in the mid-late 90s, and GM’s profit margin on them was razor thin to start with. So they ditched the Geo brand and started culling the lineup, selling the rest as Chevys. Times change; it was time to move on to bigger (literally) things.
You are correct. It was not an unpopular car.
Geo dealers were paired with Chevy dealers, so about it being created for people who would “never set foot in a Chevy dealer”, how does that work?
Good call on this being the final Geo Metro. It continued as a Chevy Metro for four more years until the last one was sold in 2001.
I think this was among the first used cars that, at one point, sold for ‘more’ than what it was new. I’m speaking, of course, about another dramatic run-up in gas prices during Hurrican Katrina in the summer of 2005.
Suddenly, gas-sippers (of which the Metro was one of the best) were worth their weight in gold. It’s also the time which is largely credited with the then odd-shaped pod known as the 2nd generation Toyota Prius gained wide, mainstream acceptance. Suddenly, the Prius became the darling of the cognoscenti (beginning with California as humorously displayed by Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm).
But if someone couldn’t afford the big ADM for a Prius, well, there was always one of these trusty, used, fuel mizer penalty box Metros. TBH, I rather like these final Metros, particularly the ‘loaded’ LSi 3-doors versions with a 5-speed and tachometer.
Sort of a reverse CC effect… Just last week I saw what must have been one of the last (03? 04?) Chevrolet-badged Metro sedans parked near my home. Looked like it was straight off the Avis lot at the airport. (“I’ll reserve the ‘subcompact’ and probably get a free upgrade. Oh crud!”)
2001 was the final year and in sedan LSi guise only. What would the upgrade be, a Cavalier or Sebring? Great… /s
“Why is this car junked? No body damage”
Look at the filthy carpet, etc. Some cars end up in bone yard due to age and cost. At the auction, the scrap yard was the highest bidder. Or, was sold to lot from owner, since they “couldn’t find a buyer”. Being dirty inside would turn off lookers. And, most looking for ‘work cars’ get something better.
I can’t imagine the grubby carpet being the primary reason, but it certainly doesn’t help.
Still, I’d be interested in what the mechanical malfunction was that finally put this one to rest. IIRC, while these weren’t anywhere near a ‘good’ car, there wasn’t anything particularly noteworthy in the drivetrain or chassis that garnered a reputation for letting go sooner than normal, especially if proper routine maintenance was followed. Suzuki might not have been Toyota or Honda, but they were still a Japanese company that built relatively solid vehicles.
Maybe it was something as simple as not being able to find a routine maintenance part like front brake rotors. I can sure see that happening with a lot of older cars, i.e., there’s not enough demand to justify parts suppliers continuing to make vehicle-specific maintenance items. The owners don’t have the time or wherewithal to hunt down (or even fabricate) facsimiles so they have no choice but to let them go (even though they otherwise look to be in fine shape).
It’s not an interference engine so the timing belt wouldn’t be it, and 120k miles seems low for an automatic transmission to go on something like this. Just as likely this was grandma’s last car bought (or won in a game show, “Joyce, Come On Doooowwwwnnnn!”) when she was 55, hung on until she was 80 and now the kids are in their 50s themselves and don’t live in the area. Far easier just to have it hauled off than to deal with it…
I hope it’s not the case that the last owners simply didn’t want to deal with an old vehicle that was still a viable mode of personal transportation. That would be a real shame.
I would think there are plenty of people who would have loved to have had a still fully functional, old Geo Metro on the cheap. Imagine someone just handing over the keys and title and saying, “Here. It’s all yours”.
I agree ~
I see so many nice condition older vehicles getting scrapped it makes me cry .
This one had rust and the passenger side collision damage, they may have simply said ‘screw this’ and junked it .
I too think it would likely have been worth saving and cleaning up but the carpets tell a story of non interest .
-Nate
Last week I came across a car in the junkyard (an early 90s Mazda MX6 coupe) that I had seen two weeks ago in my own neighborhood being loaded onto a flatbed. It had been a daily driver for someone here as long as I’ve lived here and I saw the owner in the driveway watching her car be loaded onto the flatbed, there was a newer car in the driveway. I sensed there was some long-standing connection to the Mazda but it was simply time…It had a little rust at the leading edges of the doors but looked great otherwise.
Unwanted cars these days are scrapped by calling a hauler, there are tons of them around here (and everywhere). You give them the title and they haul your old car away, dead or still running…no charge to you!
They then go straight to the junkyard, hand in the title, and collect whatever amount the car’s weight equates to in scrap metal (maybe a couple of hundred dollars, probably less for a lightweight Metro). I go to plenty of junkyards, there are often many deliveries while I am there, NOT ONCE have I seen anyone standing at the intersection nearest the places and attempting to offer a flatbed driver money to take a car, complete with title and keys that they often have, off their hands. Why not? It’s public property, the drivers are usually independents and not beholden to the yards, offer a little more cash than the yard and there you go.
As you know, I’ve documented in this series that there are LOTS of cars that look as good or better than this Metro and even if something is wrong many of us could probably easily fix it and get it running. There are thousands more every year that I don’t document that look even better. But getting those two people in the same place at the same time is tough. If I had posted that this Metro was available for you to come and get it right now would you? Likely not. Probably not even our Denver-based readers would have done so. But post it as free junk metal like an old dryer that may only need a $5 door switch to function perfectly and scrap haulers will fight over it to get the cash from the junkyard instead of fixing it and dealing with the hassle of reselling it.
I don’t blame the neighbor (or anyone else who does this), she was probably sad to see her car go, but likely did not want to deal with the potential nightmares of multiple random people coming to her house and trying to dicker regarding an older car for a few hundred dollars or whatever. And that’s the best case usually. For an out of town family member survivor, they aren’t going to hang around waiting for flaky CL and FB Marketplace buyers to maybe or maybe not show up, they have their own lives to get back to and plenty of other stuff to deal with of mom’s…Getting the required emissions check, going to the county to have the title signed over to you by presenting the death certificate and will and then selling mom’s old beater is not at the top of the list or even on page 3. :-). Just scrawl her name on the title, backdate it a week and give it to Flatbed Freddy.
One other scenario, in addition to what Jim states, is that the car could have been one of those charity donations – “If your old car is not getting much use, let us…” – that are constantly being promoted by local Public Radio (and other places). I don’t get to the junk yard too often, but the one self-serve one that’s somewhat convenient to me regularly receives lots of these donation cars. I know because this yard usually marks them as such with a windshield sticker. These are cars that could literally be driven into the junkyard and that for some reason were worth more as scrap than what they could have received at auction…or the auction place didn’t have room to store them and it was faster and economically advantageous to just send them to the yard.
Almost all of those cars could still serve as transportation for someone, but convenience conspires otherwise.
In these cases, I believe that turning over the old car literally requires zero thought for the seller beyond getting a receipt for a tax writeoff. In fact, the ads on radio/tv usually mention something like “getting rid of Mom’s old car” or “don’t worry about moving it, just donate it”.
I should note that my 1976 Volvo 245 started its journey to me that way. In this case (which was about 5 years ago) it was snapped up by a flipper at auction after the charity received it. All it required was a new battery, after which I drove it 2000 miles to its new home. Not bad for a car that was 2 wheels into the junkyard.
Now I would have loved to have that MX6 provided it was a stick. In my book these small cars are worthless if an automatic as they will never last. With the manual I know the transmission will outlast the car. So even though I know an MX6, prior to 1993, does quite well with an auto it still have that life issue. Yet, as you say, when they are getting past 25 years people tend to junk them.
Currently, in my garage, sits a 98 Sable wagon that seems to have a rod knock after an oil change at 208,000 miles. My wife says to junk it despite the great body, interior, with new suspension and brakes. Pick & Pull wanted me to pay them $50 to pick it up. So now, in the garage, sits a good standard crank, resized rods, NOS connecting bearings, NOS oil pump, OEM camshaft (lifters are new as the water pump, timing chain and heads). As soon as the other cars are finished I’ll pull the short block and drop it off for machine work. I’ll reassemble and get it back on the road. NO engine beats me and besides I liked how the car drove.
“NOT ONCE have I seen anyone standing at the intersection nearest the places and attempting to offer a flatbed driver money to take a car, complete with title and keys that they often have, off their hands. Why not?”
Because that’s title jumping. It’s illegal and leaves the buyer unable to register a vehicle. As far as the DMV is concerned, if you never register ownership into your name after the title was transferred into your possession, just your signature on that title doesn’t prove you actually owned the car to be in a position to sell it. legally speaking, you therefore can’t sell it as a “car”, because handing that title over to the new buyer is implying it can be registered into their name for road use, which it can’t.
I didn’t mean the flatbed driver signs their name to it. I meant that the flatbed driver likely simply takes the signed-off title from the registered owner and if someone buys it from them then the flatbedder is not even in the picture as far as the title chain goes. The average seller/donator has no idea what they really need or should or could do.
In California the seller (or donator) keeps a portion of the title to send in to release their liability which may prevent this type of thing IF someone is actually matching up that slip with a new registration which is very doubtful as it isn’t 100% required to send in.
In Colorado we don’t retain anything beyond a bill of sale (if we want) that we can use later in case there is a question, but zero official notice from seller to DMV that the car was sold or given away. You are supposed to show a bill of sale when registering the vehicle but again, not something anyone actually checks or follows up on as to the legitimacy. We are talking about bottom of the barrel vehicle transactions here after all.
Sure it’s likely not exactly kosher (or maybe it is). Neither is agreeing to put a lower price in the “Sold for $___” section on the title, yet I’d wager more people than not have done that too in a private sale transaction in order to save money on the sales tax paid when titling it later.
Your example is another great way to get yourself wrangled into the legal system in some capacity, say in the event the buyer doesn’t bother to register it in the first place and after some legal infraction arises it gets back to the last owner on the title, who points the finger back at you. Or the buyer changes their mind for whatever reason when they get the car home and decides to take you to court to get their money back. Morally? Wrong. Legally? Take a wild guess how that will play out if you didn’t draft a contract that explicitly stated “for parts only”.
It boggles my mind in this litigious society we live in everyone isn’t cognizant that when you sell/donate/transfer/whatever a vehicle to someone else, you get your name off that title as owner and have the new owner or entity added in your place at the same time, in your presence. Take yourself down to the DMV and meet the buyer and do the whole transaction there. None of this “here you go” with that title and cross your fingers nonsense…
You simply can’t do it that way everywhere. I completely understand your point and that’s kind of how you’d probably want it to work in most normal transactions for the most part. Good luck trying to sell your beater Metro with an Automatic and rusty wheel arches for $800 and making the guy who has the cash in hand in your driveway meet up with you a few days down the road at the DMV to finalize the transaction and put it in his name. I don’t know how it is in your state but in this state (or at least my county) you can not just walk in any longer as of last year, are required to make an appointment at least several days to a week or more in advance as they are booked out, and those appointments are only allowed for final title registration/transfer into the new owner’s name, EVERYthing else is online or via mail. It’d be a total crapshoot if the guy actually shows up on Thursday at 11am… more likely he just buys the next hooptie on his list and you are standing around waiting in the parking lot…
It may work if you’re selling a five year old car to Mr. Thompson and his high school age daughter, I’ll grant that. Precisely the people you aren’t worried about too much in the first place…
But this is EXACTLY why people don’t bother trying to sell cheap cars and advertising them in the hope that Rudiger or Nate above gives them a call, especially cars with an issue instead of just giving it to FlatbedFreddie or taking it to the junkyard themselves.
Shady stuff goes on all the time. Many people likely never bother registering a car after they buy it. Many people don’t have the money, don’t have insurance, don’t have a license, and thus can’t get a current registration but need a car to get to work and just take the plates off the last beater in their driveway that just ate its timing belt and slap them on the new one. Good luck suing them when they rear end you, they have no assets and are already in debt up to their eyeballs…
Jim ;
You know he’s just fear mongering, it’s the latest fad .
FWIW, I have been there when nice cars come into the junk yard and _NO_ the driver’s will not sell them to you off the company truck .
I was in LKQ City Of Industry a while back when in came a mid 1960’s Dodge 1/2 ton step side, nice red and white paint, no rust anywhere ~ I wish I coulda bought it .
That particular LKQ is always full of interesting and good vehicles like RUST & DENT FREE Army Jeeps, all manner of Grandpa & Grandma vehicles and obscure orphans .
-Nate
I remember reading this generation was styled by GM instead of Suzuki. I’d love to see proof of that.
It does indeed look like a little Cavalier though…
Actually both this and the previous generation were styled at GM’s Design Center; it was the original boxy version, first sold here as the Chevy Sprint, that was designed by Suzuki.
Why not? It’s not like Suzuki had any real design competence outside of making little 4x4s and boxy kei cars.
I see a number of pretty obvious GM design cues in them.
When I was working in Holland in the 1970s it seemed so logical that the cars of my co-workers were very small and efficient Citroën 2CVs and Dyanes. Some also rode bicycles to work using the bike-only lanes adjacent to the main roads. Of course there were the luxury brands around (such as “big” Citroën DS’) for the executive class but even the taxis in Amsterdam were relatively modest, roomy, and manual Mercedes diesels.
It all made perfect sense in that small, flat, and mostly below sea level country.
When I returned to the USA my ’67 Tempest seems so big on the outside and not much roomier than the 1972 Ford Escort 1100 Mk1 that I rented in Holland. The Pontiac seemed to be too much for what it did.
Does this make sense?
Well, yes, kind of. A few years earlier I had sold my VW Beetle because it seemed unsafe in country where the average car weighed twice as much (or more) and posed a physical threat to my family (and myself), so the logic of these little gas sippers may have been countered by understandable safety concerns. This concern is probably even more apparent out West where distances, altitude above sea level, and average speeds are greater than those in my Northeast flat land and near sea level location.
What and how we should think about the cost, average size, and power of our personal vehicles in the year 2022 and beyond is a question that I ponder with no clear answer.
I don’t even have a fuzzy answer.
As a life-long fan of efficiency in all things and a driver of a very small and efficient car, I know exactly what I’m thinking. And the planet knows what we should all be thinking. But good luck getting everyone on board with that.
Small doesn’t have to mean “unsafe.” Have a look at any crash test of a VAG MQB platform, for example. Modern cars are built very strong, with high quality steel.
In my opinion, which doesn’t account for much, cars are larger than need be. A good example is the price of fuel in Vancouver. It’s running USD $6 a US gallon and I am hearing massive bellyaching, blaming everyone but themselves for driving a 3000 kg truck to work.
There’s a modern day irony in the efficiency of the small Geo/Chevy Metro that applies today, and that’s when trying to take one out on the highway for any kind of long-distance travel. Anyone who did that with a Metro 3-door is a certifiable masochist.
Where it applies today is with the EV boom. The difference is that, while anyone taking an EV out for a long-distance journey will not experience the punishment of a Metro, at least with the Metro there is no range-anxiety.
In effect, the concern about ride quality and comfort in taking the most efficient small car on a trip has been superseded by how far one can get until they have to stop and charge in an EV (or if there’s even an available EV charge station).
There’s no range anxiety in an EV built by a manufacturer that specializes in it and has set up a charging infrastructure that criss-crosses the nation along with automatically routing the car and its occupants to take advantage of the most convenient stations for the optimum amounts of charging times in order to minimize total travel time including stops. That is different than running to empty and filling to full. It can also be explored before setting off to ensure the route is viable and planning for the stops. If one is solely relying on third party chargers that may or may not work or be accessible I wouldn’t know about that.
As with the Metro, if traveling a very long distance is a concern, simply either take one of the likely other vehicles in the household or rent one. Owners of 25 year old Metros may only have one car. Modern EV owners usually have more than one car at the current level of market penetration. It’s a non-issue for the vast majority of owners.
But you buy your car and you live with your choices. A Metro, a Hybrid Prius, and a full EV will all see maximum comparative efficiency in normal day to day usage and traffic, not in a banzai run across the country.
Obviously, your EV scenario is aimed squarely at Tesla which, admittedly, is the number one choice for long-distance EV travel. For starters, Tesla products have a built-in feature that tells the driver when they’re starting to run low on range and exactly where and how long it will take to get to a functioning Supercharger. IOW, you really have to be trying to run out of range in a Tesla. They’re not exactly comparable to a Geo Metro, either.
And much cheaper non-Teslas (J1772) are a whole different ballgame. I read a survey not long ago that stated something like 25% of listed J1772 EV stations are inoperable or unavailable. And that’s among an already low number of the things. I know people who have done it, but it can be a white-knuckle and/or time-consuming experience, even with the substantial increase in range of the latest BEVs.
If you input your destination into the Tesla screen it does far more than just tell you that. It routes you the most efficient (fastest) way to your destination and preplans every one of your charging stops as well as adjusting on the fly if for some reason you drive faster or slower or there is wind or construction or whatever, i.e. it may change where, when, and for how long you stop. As you stop and are charging it tells you in real time when you can stop charging to make it to the next waypoint. You can either go with that or keep charging more. If you charge longer (maybe you are eating dinner?), then it will recalc the rest of the route when you return to make the journey more efficient. This isn’t stuff that anyone who doesn’t own one knows and no reviewer generally knows about either – because they have limited time with the car, already have an agenda, or as with many “journalists” denigrating Tesla have never actually experienced one or any other EV themselves. No they are not comparable to a Metro but they are the most ubiquitous EV brand out there and in the grand scheme of things not overly expensive (yes more than a Metro and many other cars, but nowhere near the most expensive cars out there).
Yes, other chargers are a completely different ballgame as I tried to convey in the reviews that I did of them a couple of years ago. The situation is improving but the manufacturers are all waiting for someone, anyone else to make it good, which is asinine. This will never happen (or take a very very long time) if only third party “solutions” are implemented). Tesla somehow decided that they needed to bite this bullet and it has paid off very handsomely, they are the gold standard as regards enroute charging if that is a factor that is in fact important to people (it may well not be as big of a real deal in the short term as we like to think it is though).
If the current Tesla system is a 10, then the rest of the public charging industry is maybe a 3 and that’s not me being pro-Tesla or anything, that’s just the way I see it having tried both. The Supercharger system is worth FAR more of a premium than is likely being charged for it in the purchase price of the car. It can still be improved but it IS improving every day and I believe expanding at a faster rate than the rest of the third party infrastructure combined. This one simple factor is why Tesla will remain dominant in the EV space for years to come.
If you read almost any other EV maker’s ad copy it will talk about the tens of thousands of public chargers available to their buyer. What it does not tell you is that tens of thousands number includes as a huge proportion 110 and slow level 2 chargers, i.e. solutions that are simply not acceptable when traveling. Maybe 25% of the overall infrastructure outside Tesla is actual “fast” charging and all of it charges for the juice at higher than actual cost, they have to, since they are third party providers with a profit motive. None of it is as seamless, i.e. pull up and just plug in with all billing handled automatically, every other instance I believe requires apps, credit cards, “interfacing”, etc. As you inferred it simply is an act of faith hoping that one will be there, available, and operable when you need it to be.
Thanx for the clear and concise explanation Jim .
I still tend to travel the roads less traveled so I doubt a Tesla would ever be my choice but it’s good to know they’ve put all this effort into it .
I don’t understand why the chargers are not mandated to be interchangeable between brands , gasoline / diesel / motor oil is…
-Nate
Most third party chargers are compatible between brands, sometimes with adapters (EVgo, Chargepoint, Blink etc). Tesla developed a proprietary system that they deemed to be better (and it is smaller and less clunky, works great, is reliable with excellent uptime and couldn’t be simpler to use). Tesla is currently experimenting with opening their system to others that can purchase an adapter (the same way Tesla owners can get adapters to use with other stations). The harder part is the infrastructure to get paid. A Tesla does it all internally with a credit card linked to the user/driver/owner, there is no paypoint on the Superchargers, it’s seamless. More likely than not Tesla can develop an app so a Ford for example could pull up and using the app, initiate payment and the charging itself. The Ford needs to be able to recognize whatever protocols the Tesla supercharger has set up. Another issue is that most (the majoroty) of Tesla chargers are set up for a car to back in to the stall, Teslas have their charge ports at the rear of the car with fairly short cables, the first few times often require re-parking. A different car might have to pull in differently if it can reach at all. Someone with a trailer is a bit screwed. These are issues that other chargers have with some cars as well though and can be worked out.
Tesla did offer their system to any maker that wanted to adopt it early on, well before the vast majority of manufacturers wanted anything to do with EVs. However there was a lot of legalese that made it very unattractive to other manufacturers beyond the simple fact that few manufacturers want to admit they would be using Tesla tech. So since Tesla built it mainly for their own cars as a selling point they could do what they wanted.
There is NOTHING stopping a major, much larger manufacturer such as Ford or GM setting up their own infrastructure beyond the willingness to invest in it. Even choosing the locations would be simple, just get a Supercharger map and buy/rent space across the street. I understand why they might not want to do so, it’s a huge investment, but it’s one of the main impediments that buyers cite.
The electricity which is akin to the gas, diesel etc) is the same between brands, just not the filling device. It’s kind of like phone chargers. When the market leader decides their idea is better and they have the lion’s share of the market, well…
As an aside you can plug most any EV, Tesla included, into a standard household socket as well as what’s basically a 220V dryer plug with an adapter that is often included with the car. The charge rate (speed of charge) is significantly lower than what can be achieved otherwise. It works for overnight charging, not so much when trying to get across states quickly.
Thanx again Jim ;
I’d like to try driving a Tesla for a week or three but not willing to rent one .
I’m sure if I don’t croak, sooner or later they’ll pry my fingers off the steering wheel / handlebars of my ICE powered vehicles but I’m in no rush at all .
After my last post my Sweet and I went out for coffee and I began pondering the original GM EV-1’s ~ IIRC GM said they crushed them all for scrap, I remember them zooming past my old Split Window Beetle and those few EV-1 owners (renters) told me they _LOVED_ them….
-Nate
I remember seeing some first generation convertible Geo Metro’s driving around here in Amsterdam. Many US spec convertibles and roadsters found their way here in the 90’s and 2000’s. Examples would be the Miata, new Beetle, Fiat 124 spider, X1/9 and quite a few mid 70’s – early 80’s Triumphs and MG’s.
I can’t remember the last time I saw a Metro, but once in a while it’s cousin, the Suzuki Swift appears.
Just yesterday I saw a Chevy Prizm driving along. At first I thought it was a Geo, but as it got closer I realized the grill badge was a bow tie awkwardly centered in the background shape of the flattened Geo globe (is there a metaphor hiding in there?), which in turn matched the molded plastic of the grill and a slight notch in the hood. The rebranding did not appear to be accompanied by a budget for retooling.
Daughter’s best friend had a bright red 3 cyl Geo Metro convertible, manual shift. She borrowed our Ramcharger once to pull a horse trailer while her Jeep Cherokee p/u was broken so I had the use of her car for a day, It was a beautiful Spring day so I drove it to Cunningham Falls in Catoctin State Park (Camp David area) and back, about 50 miles. It was a fun ride, a cute and lively little buzz-bomb that really thrived on revs.
In a perfect world I’d gladly drive an super-efficient gas sipper like this, but in the contest between safety and efficiency safety always wins in my book. Some concessions need to be made to the fact that 45 mpg does you no good if you’re dead. While I certainly wouldn’t own an Escalade or similar tank, a 2000 lb car is just not safe, no matter how much technology you stick on it, there’s just too many 6000 lb bro-dozers, semis, and oblivious phone-using drivers out there. There needs to be a reasonable balance because the laws of Physics have yet to be repealed.
_SO_ cute ! .
I remember those who owned these were fanatical about them .
-Nate
It says a lot about a car where my eye just keeps getting drawn to that red Grand Prix GT 4 door, man does the Geo make that W body look exotic!
Seriously though, I can see the appeal. The dash design itself is actually decent looking for a 90s GM, even the switchgear looks nicer and less contrived than what you’d see in that Grand Prix, it’s just a shame it ages like a typical GM dash. I could see that being a motivator for junking it, it’s one thing if the exterior looks bad, but when the thing in your constant periphery is noticeably degrading the writing is on the wall.
I hope you pocketed the cassette single sitting on the passenger seat.
****1/2!
I’ve an acquaintance who has (at last count) six or seven of these; of which 3 are convertibles!
Loving efficiencies as I do, I like this car because it is the 4 cylinder. The Metro was a good car, but I did not like 3 cylinders. By the time this arrived, so did a market change.
GM’s foray into imports brought some stars, and also flops. NUMMI was success, but Daewoo wasn’t – yet. Nova was very good, Pontiac LeMans was not. Mix in a struggling Hyundai, a Mercury Capri convertible, a Yugo, and with gas prices dropping, the market dried up for even good cars.
Sorry about that IP. That’s the kind of interiors I unfortunately experienced too often with GM. Finally, it is a crime to put an automatic transmission in these cars. These were fun with manuals. Shame how many buyers missed out because they never learned to drive a manual.
The Metro deserves more respect.
Come on, the three cylinder was actually a lot of fun and did like 50 MPG. I’ve never driven an automatic one but the manual didn’t feel as slow as a Rabbit diesel. The Rabbit didn’t feel that slow, either.
It is sometimes hard for gearheads to empathise with non-gearheads. The vast majority of drivers, 98%, drive automatic transmission cars. They don’t care much about their car other than it be comfortable and reliable.
If you ask the average driver the engine size of their car, very few could answer it.
Why it was there. Well, without knowing exactly where, where was, the yard looks suspiciously like the Pick and Pull chain of DIY yards based here in California. Tons of their cars come in because they can’t pass smog. Some (ok, not many) are clean and shinny, many are semi presentable, but not passing smog can be either a 2 digit fix or a couple of thou, or more than many are worth.
Smog certificate, it’s all about the smog cert.
Denver, CO. We also have emissions checks in this part of the state.
Suzuki Swift when that badge was almost accurate or Holden Barina gen 1 if you lived in OZ when they were new, I still see the odd one on the road here they seem to keep going untill an inspection fail sends them to the scrapyard.
I had a 1995 Pontiac Firefly SE model, basically rebadged for Canada only version of this car in black. You could only get the automatic with the 1.3 liter 4 cylinder which was rated for 70 horsepower. I was fine with the automatic as who wanted to drive a stick in stop and go commuter traffic over the Lions Gate Bridge every day. I could have gotten a Pontiac Sunfire for not much more money. I think I paid around $12,500 for the Firefly which had a tachometer, rear window wiper/washer, cargo cover, am/fm cassette with cd player. It did not have A/C or ABS brakes both were options. I wanted the smaller car as I live downtown and only drive in the city. It was great little car, fun to drive even with the automatic and the stuff I hauled in that hatch was unbelievable. Those seats were very comfortable. I had it until 2008 with over 300,000 km’s. The dash in my car faded like that as well, not so severe, but the airbag cover did not. I was sad to let it go, but it was time to move on.