The Curbside Newsstand is opening up again, after a mandated Covid-19 shut down. And we have some pretty good news this morning: an all-new Toyota Sienna van (I refuse to call the current vans “minivans”, as they obviously aren’t) and the return of the Venza, a two row low-roof crossover, which is apparently the fastest growing sub-segment of that segment. These are clearly becoming the “sedan” of these modern times.
And Toyota has wisely chosen to give both of them essentially the same hybrid system as the only power train. It uses the 2.5 four and beefed up electric motors to deliver 243 hp in the Sienna and 222 hp in the Venza. Starting with the very hot RAV4 Hybrid, Toyota has focused on the increased performance potential of their hybrid system along with its efficiency. Good call.
The Sienna uses a variant of the Toyota New Global Architecture platform (TNGA-K), along with the RAV4, Highlander, Camry and Avalon. Toyota is estimating 33 mpg in the EPA combined rating, a whopping 12mpg improvement over the 2020 Sienna, and 3 mpg better than the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid when operating in combined gas/electric mode.
And there’s an AWD version, with an electric motor on the rear axle. And towing capacity is 3500 lbs. Now that 243 hp is 54 hp less than the current V6’s rating, but the instant torque of the electric motor(s) and the vastly improved efficiency will undoubtedly offset any complaints in that regard. A genuine 33mpg AWD van is a pretty appealing proposition, especially with the Toyota badge on it.
Can I change my mind now? I’m sorry, but a van without a walk through capability is almost a no-starter for me. Never mind just the feeling of openness in the front cabin. Do we really need consoles in vans?
And that console extends well into the second row. Built in soft drink dispenser?
Maybe not, but there are buttons for something. Is there a “Mommy” button?
I need to keep this short; you can find more news out there if you haven’t already. But it looks like the Sienna is very much back in the game.
The Venza returns, after its predecessor left in 2015 due to a lack of consistent interest. It did have a very cheap looking interior. Like the rest of the gang, this too rides on the TNGA-K platform, and also uses the same basic 2.5-based hybrid drive train.
It’s strictly a two-row vehicle, in a segment that was sparked initially by the Ford Edge. It comes standard with AWD, which uses an electric motor in the rear axle to provide additional traction as needed. It has the usual suite of safety hardware, and competitive infotainment features (I’m the wrong person to ask about the details).
I suspect Venza V2.0 will do better than V1.0. It’s competitive, and will offer as much as 40 mpg. The Venza returns with a Vengeance.
Apparently, the new Sienna hybrid’s second row seats are not removable; Toyota seems to be taking a page from the Kia Sedona’s playbook. It will be interesting to see how that one plays out.
OTOH, the 3500 lb. tow rating of the Sienna hybrid is definitely a winner compared to the Pacifica hybrid’s tow rating of zero.
When I read the non-removable seat bit, I thought DOA myself until I found out why. It’s because the side impact airbag system is in the seat itself. All about those perfect safety ratings I suppose. The compromise then is they are mounted on a sliding track system that can go much farther forward than a second row normally would to help with capacity.
The huge console is a refrigerator, by the way.
Aha. A fridge. So I wasn’t far off with my soft drink dispenser guess. 🙂
I’m thinking these vans are more and more becoming mostly people movers, and increasingly comfortable and safe ones. And less and less stuff movers. There’s a gazillion pickups for that.
But will the fridge have an icemaker? Don’t laugh; top trim first-gen 1980s Toyota minivans had icemakers. I’m not making this up.
The extra long console is probably just for the higher end two thrones second row model. Will just these seats be non-removable, or the bench seat variant also.
The exterior styling is pretty much a somewhat less creasy version of the RAV-4, as might be expected. Judging by the new Honda Fit/Jazz and Honda electric car, it may be that the zig-zag origami look may be running its course, thankfully.
Lower-end models will have 8 passenger seating, with a 2nd row middle seat that can be stowed when not in use. I don’t see much legroom for the center position with that console, but I haven’t seen anything showing or describing the 8-passenger interior beyond what I’ve stated here.
The 1 and only reason I didnt consider the kia sedona back in 2015 was because of the non removable second row seats. A van needs to van and as much as I love the hybrid drivetrain that 1 factor will steer me away from the new sienna if i ever replace my awesome odyssey.
I was a Sienna fan but checked out the Sedona too. Those stupid permanently bolted seats made it a definite no-go for me, as well.
Just gross. I will take a 1963 Ford over any Toyota or Honda product made in the last ten years.
Why would that be? I can’t think of any advantages of a 1963 Ford.
Objectively, yes. Subjectively, I can’t say that anything styling-wise Toyota has managed to come up with for about the past decade I’d want to own. The Venza at least manages to look better than the current RAV4 or any of the Lexus CUVs – mostly because it is not covered in excessive creases and character lines. So the Venza does have that going for it. The Sienna is just hideous.
I have a 1963 Ford I’d be happy to sell you.
Don’t know what’s wrong with Toyota, but lately they only seem to produce ill-proportioned, ungainly cars. The Siena will give even the Ssangyong Rodius a good run for its money…
The new Venza looks much sleeker than the awkwardly styled 1st gen. The back end reminds me of the Jaguar CUVs. It should sell well in this CUV hungry market.
The new Sienna on the other hand looks Lexus like, but in a bad way. From the side, the long nose resembles the last versions GM U-Vans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_U_platform#/media/File:Chevrolet_Uplander_LWB.jpg
“Low-roof crossover”: a station wagon by another name. I do wish that the Venza had a bit more extension in the cargo area, like the station wagons of yore. But I would consider one of these seriously over the RAV4, because of having more stretch-out room.
“But I would consider one of these seriously over the RAV4, because of having more stretch-out room.”
Maybe not as much as you might think: The Harrier (as this Venza is known worldwide) has the same wheelbase as the new RAV4. It’s also the same width and height–only the body is longer (by less than 6″).
The Venza pretty much looks like a Lexus from every angle except the front. It will do well.
My my my, the only time I got close to 33MPG out of my 2004 Sienna was when I drove from Tualatin to Cottage Grove at 60MPH with the cruise control.
My biggest gripe with the current Sienna exterior styling is the oversized wheels and possibly the taillight assembly, I think the front end is okay. I like cargo capacity of my Sienna, so hopefully the center console is not that big in all of them and hopefully the seats are removable.
It will be interesting to see if the lack of removable middle seats will be an issue – it seems to me that (formerly mini)van customers have become awfully used to that utility. The Sedona has not done well with that configuration, but perhaps Toyota will do better. Or perhaps Honda and Chrysler will pick up some significant share.
The Sienna is an attractive package, otherwise. If the Mrs and I were to go to a Toyota showroom, I suspect that there might be more interest shown by her towards the Venza than towards the Sienna. I think she is getting van-fatigue. Which is a shame, because I have become immune, I think.
People who care about being able to ditch the 2nd row seats to carry cargo seem to gravitate toward the Mopar vans with the stow-‘n-go, so Toyota may have figured let’s just let that market go and best serve those who mainly want a people carrier, who’ll prefer the long fore/aft seat tracks, side airbags, ottoman, and thicker, more comfortable seats – none of which are offered with Chrysler’s foldaway setup. What I’m not clear on is whether you can at least fold the seatbacks down, or tilt the seat forward as in earlier Siennas to make more space without entirely removing the seat.
I’ve got a 2019 Sienna Limited with the big captain recliner chairs. The new one probably compresses forward but I’m betting it doesn’t stay there. I tried hauling something with the seats crunched towards the front seats and the middle chairs never latched in place. It was a drag. So much better to just remove them, which I do all the time, but I was lazy that day.
I don’t see the middle seats being non-removable as a big deal – the few times I ever did so in our Sienna and Odyssey it was back breaking weight and just looking to cause an injury. Stop and go is convenient but everybody seems to complain about lack of seat comfort with it, which is a different trade off. In hindsight every time I did take the seats out I probably would have been better off paying for delivery or renting a truck to carry whatever it was.. Very few people take the seats out and leave them out and for those it can’t be more than a few bolts and a couple of electrical plugs, no big deal.
Both vehicles should do well, or at least as well as there is still a market , they’ll be fully competitive besides a few people who won’t be able to accept that a modern four with a battery is perfectly acceptable for people movers such as these.
Yeah but if you unplug those air bag connectors the computer will not be happy. At the minimum you’ll be stuck staring at a blinking SRS light and maybe some periodic beeping.
It can keep the TPMS light and Maintenance minder light company…. within three months there’ll be a procedure on YouTube to disable it. And they still make black electrical tape for that old skool fix of covering it!
I’m very curious to see how the succeeds for Toyota. Will it reinvigorate the rather moribund minivan market? Or will it miss the target and fizzle away? Either is possible.
I think going hybrid-only is a shrewd move, though I realize hybrids are hardly attention-getting these days, the setup has a lot of advantages… practical advantages, that seem to be well-suited to the practicality-minded minivan market. I doubt many people will care it’s a four; seems like a lot of folks have no idea what kind of engine their car has anyway, and with 243-hp, good mileage, and good performance, I think it’ll find acceptance.
I’m surprised about the non-removable seats, since this has been flagged as a poor choice by Kia for some time. You’re right that it’s not a big deal for many folks – in the 18 months of owning a Sedona, I’ve missed that capability exactly once, but then again maybe a lot of people prioritize that once-a-year furniture moving more than one might suspect.
The console annoys me – our console-less Odyssey is much roomier-feeling and more flexible than our consoled Sedona. And by the pictures, the new Sienna’s console looks very high where it meets the dash as well, seemingly adding to the confining feeling. Boo.
Still, if we happen to find ourselves in the minivan market again, I’d definitely check one out.
I like the look of this Venza, way better to my eye than the current Lexus RX350 (when is that thing due for a re-style, by the way?).
Supposedly also 2021 but maybe it’ll get stretched a year. This may in fact be it without the badge for now….
That seems unlikely to me. Yes, the first RXs were rebadged as Harriers in Japan, but the current RX has outgrown the Harrier (which is now about the same size as the RAV4).
A genuine 33mpg AWD van is a pretty appealing proposition, especially with the Toyota badge on it.
I believe that 33mpg applies to FWD version, AWD is optional. And you can get an optional inverter and a tow hitch.
“The 2021 Toyota Sienna is also ready for life’s outdoor adventures with its all-wheel drive option – and is well-positioned for accessories, such as a rooftop carrier, cross bars, bike rack and more. The Sienna will also offer an available tow hitch and factory optional 1,500-watt inverter with 120V AC outlet to power camping equipment.”
I don’t get the bridge console at all. It not only blocks access to the second row and cargo area from the front, but also between the two front seats. I think the foldaway tray/cupholders offered on some older Siennas and Odysseys were the best center console solution; the removable console box on older Siennas that could fit between either the first or second row seats was also a good setup.
Going 4 cylinder/hybrid only was a good move. They can package the van to accomodate a four-cylinder engine and battery exclusively, and don’t need a driveshaft for AWD models. Any word on whether that means we now get a spare tire and can forego run-flats on the AWD model? Will the FWD version even still have a spare? How about the higher-end models with the (new) vacuum cleaner, which takes up the would-be spare tire space in some other vans?
Touchless open/close sliding side and rear doors are a well-timed new feature.
I was wondering about the spare tire too. When we were looking at minivans in 2018, the lack of a spare was a major demerit against the AWD Sienna… more so than the lack of removable seats in a Sedona.
The spare tire is available for the Sienna models. Apparently optional, not standard. Since the battery pack is under the front seats, the spare is likely under the middle seats.
The spare tire is mounted in the classic station wagon/ Honda Odyssey location … beside/behind the 3rd row seat on the driver side.
The AWD Siennas had a driveshaft through where the compact spare would bolt in. The 2021 AWD instead uses an electric motor, so that underfloor space is available. A tire repair kit is standard.
Highlander Hybrid combined fuel economy is 36mpg FWD, 35mpg AWD
Removing 2nd seats in our 2nd gen Sienna is a real PITA and I resorted to tilting them forwards. The Kia Sedona’s stow-forwards 2nd row looks fine by me, hopefully the next Sienna’s will be similar.
It won’t be; there’s no tilt-forward in the ’21 Sienna. Don’t even think there’s a simple fold-down seatback.
Two nice vehicles, though non-removable second row seats would be a downer. In our mini-van days I regularly took them out to haul large cargo or sheets of plywood. Of course, now I use the very best of pickup trucks… whatever I can borrow from neighbors or friends!
OH LOOK Karen!
Judy bought a new 2021 Toyota Sienna!
Now, she and Jeff can go to the boats to game the night away in a sporty looking van! She told me that they can put a bottle of Pinot and it will be chilled enough for our Pickleball afternoons by the Lake. Each of us can sit in a fancy seat that will make us feel like we’re in her sun room playing Bunco!
She and Jeff claim that when they rent Barbara’s Jackson Hole time share next August, they’ll get 35 miles per gallon on the way there. You know that’s where they see the grand kids and she tries to remember their names.
Jeff likes to take in a few rounds of golf as Judy and Barbara go antiquing for her library study. Remember how she found that gloriously adorable set of ceramic dogs for her mantel? The Toyota has enough room for her latest finds, as well as Jeff’s new clubs.
They had a van before, remember? It was a Plymouth Voyager they took to all the kids to baseball games, Cub Scouts and they’d turn it into a little nap station for their youngest kids on trips to Lake of the Ozarks to camp. Funny how they have a new van now – but it is nothing like that. This Toyota, Judy told me, is like a limousine. She won’t even let her grand kids even get into it.
Judy said that Jeff told her that the last thing he wanted in their new Toyota van is kids.
They’ll probably come around on the grandkids, but the dogs – just forget it. 🙂
Mean, mean, mean, they’ll bite your heads off!
…but the dogs are nice.
I’ll be curious to see if the Venza picks up any sales relative to RAV4 or Highlander … these three seem so close now I can’t tell them apart. But the Sienna is still quite popular in California, based on what I see on the road, so I actually think that offering hybrid-only in this segment, with an established name (ie not a hybrid only name like Prius), could be a tipping point. With the rumored hybrid versions of Tacoma and Tundra coming, Toyota’s US lineup could become hybrid-only just like Tesla is electric-only.
“… segment that was sparked initially by the Ford Edge”
I’d say it was the Nissan Murano, which came out four years before the Edge.
The Venza is just the new JDM Harrier with a perplexing choice of name slapped on it.
Interesting – I guess that explains the Lexus RX resemblance some have noted; the Harrier used to be the JDM version of the RX before diverging in 2014.
Toyota tries to force US customers to adopt into its hybrid drive train. While we have no doubt about its reliability in first 7 years, what we wants to know is its driving experience and overall refinement. And the long term cost to maintain and repair is another concern. People these days own Toyota for its percieved reliability and quality, they are willing to comprise other factors like driving enjoyment and dynamic. The current generation of Sienna has very poor drivability, it reminds me my 1983 Caprice. I was shocked why Toyota makes such a vehicle in 21st century. I moved on to get a 2015 Odyssey instead. Admittedly Odyssey jidriving train and reliability cannot match Toyota Sienna.
As for Venza, unlike the previous generation of Venza, which is either a wagon or SUV, the new one is a two-row crossover SUV to counter Honda Passport and Chevrolet Blazer. But my casual observation, those two models are seldom seen in Central Jersey. Maybe they are not selling well.
The first generation Venza on paper looks very good, but after owning a 2011 front drive one in the last six months, I have to say it is just a so-so vehicle, no wonder Toyota chopped it out. Its visibility inside is very poor, a lot of blind spots, the rear cargo space is very limited. Mine has a very low profile 20-inch tires give a hard impact on road and soft ride for bad handling. Interior design and materials are needed to improve. The good merits are its powerful V6 drivetrain and very roomy rear seats. I hope ithe new Venza makes good its previous model weakness while keeping its conventional V6 engine. I guess we are in the new era now, hybrid drivetrain with cheap gasoline.
Having driven a couple of Sienna V-6 rentals, I’ll miss that engine. As a minivan, it was almost silly powerful, and could keep up with anything on America’s autobahn, I-15 from Vegas to LA. It was almost more of a SUV with a box body.
For the vast majority of buyers the new Sienna should really be a hit – it should serve them well. There are plenty of V-6 SUVs for the sorely upset – or Chrysler or Honda minivans if they feel the need.
I liked both the prior Venza and it’s Honda competitor, the Accord Crosstour. I would have thought both had a potential to be a hit, but both were obviously cancelled. It will be interesting to see if round two fairs a bit better. The last Venza was rather conventional as 5 passenger CUVs go, making its failure a bit perplexing. It was, if I recall correctly, overtly advertised as an older person’s car, and perhaps that was the problem – the adage that “You can sell a young man’s car to an old man, but you cannot sell an old man’s car to a young man” proven again.
As a used car buyer I would never, ever buy a hybrid. As Scotty Kilmer puts it, they tend to become endless money pits when they get old. (I don’t care about gas mileage.)
Not true. The long-term reliability of Toyota hybrids has been superb. There’s a reason so many taxi companies (and Uber/Lyft drivers) use Camry Hybrids or Priuses – they drive them with little maintenance beyond oil changes for several hundred thousand miles. Toyota also has a long warranty on the battery and hybrid components. Hybridization reduces wear on the engine since it isn’t running as often, and the brake pads seem to last forever since regenerative braking does most of the work.
That’s a personal choice I will respect, but is not based upon logical reason. Chicago’s fleet of taxi/Uber drivers nearly exclusively will arrive in a Toyota with Hybrid Drive. Fleet managers don’t keep their job if the expenditures don’t add up for good reason.
I wouldn’t put a great deal of stock in Scotty Kilmer, he’s a bit of a hack.
Agreed
That 90s Celica he owns somehow only accumulates 1,000 miles a year despite being the best, most reliable car ever made according to him.
He’s annoying and a hack. I watched him for a bit but he grew old on me fast and I unsubscribed without regrets.
Scotty Kilmer earned a Ph.D so I wouldn’t rag on his credibility. The guy knows his stuff and, he is not a hack by any means.
Yeah, and it explains why Toyota hybrids are the favorite of taxi drivers in New York and so many other cities. They’re all masochists, who just love to run up expensive repairs.
Degrees mean little or nothing to me; good judgment and common sense do.
I do not believe that is true (the PhD part). Do you have a source you can cite for that? As far as I can tell he has a masters in anthropology. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn’t bestow on him any credibility in regard to motor vehicles.
He is not a bit of a hack, he is a total hack and much of what he spews is crap.
I was trying to be kind.
As opposed to other vehicles that become more reliable and dependable as the components age? The electric components have proven to be very long life items, the internal combustion items are generally less stressed than those of comparable non-hybrid equivalents, and the transmissions are often simpler. Owners usually skew towards the “more responsible” type. Even if (and it’s a bit if) the battery goes, what would be the “endless” part referring to as far as repairs go? SK is usually pure clickbait and nigh unwatchable.
Name one vehicle that doesn’t cost money to keep up as it ages. You’ll forgive me if I don’t trust Kilmer implicitly.
Toyota’s Mark of exellence!
The Venza looks good, but that Sienna, GAH!!! That has to be one of the most awkward looking side profiles ever (IMO)!
The Sienna does have some interesting bulges and creases. But I still like it better then the hideous styling on the Honda Odyssey. The last Odyssey had that horrible dip in the window line for no logical reason. I had hoped they the design would we better. But they kept the dip and added factory installed dents in the side panels. It’s styling gone mad for no reason. This Sienna adds where bulges like a 50’s car. Why? It’s weird, b it still better than the Honda. . The Venza has a nice modern look. I hope it does well.
Personally, I liked that “lightning jag” on the Odyssey.
Really like the look of the Venza, thats a cool looking thing, Toyota knocking it out of the park recently.
For me, the non-removable middle seats is a complete deal killer. Which unfortunately put the current Sedona out of consideration for me, while I absolutely adore my current second generation Sedona.
Realistically, what I use a minivan for, I’m best served by picking up one of the latest available Grand Caravan C/V’s. I took the middle seats out of my Sedona and stored them the day the van came home, and they won’t go back in until trade-in appraisal day. I basically need a work van, but really am trying to avoid getting something truck based. Little matter of comfort on long trips.
As I understand it the current Sedona requires 4 bolts to be removed per seat and it comes out of the vehicle. It does not seem overly onerous. In your case it would then stay out until the next trade-in time a decade or so down the road.
I did some research and I was told the Kia would have to have the seats removed by a body shop. Likely the same with the new Sienna.
Toyota is doing a phenonemal job with styling lately. Way better than the styling duds of the domestics. The 2021 Sienna is jaw dropping gorgeous! Toyota is on a big, steady, roll building the best. And Toyota has always built the best! GM, Ford and Chrysler will continue to nosedive like they’ve been doing for so many years. And who really cares anymore?
I’m on my fourth Sienna. I do have some family but generally, we pull the middle row out and put it IN 2-3 times a year. To me, pickup trucks are impractical and are only good for hauling dirt. I prefer a minivan and obviously the Sienna, till now. No removable seats will make my fifth minivan a Honda or maybe, if the reliabilty reviews get better, a Pacifica. I dig the hybrid, I think it looks decent (the current one is less gaudy than the 2021) but no removable seats makes it as impractical (albeit with greater cargo height) as an SUV. Loyal customer lost, Toyota.
Paul is right not calling the Sienna a minivan. These are huge vehicles. And in the process I think they are evolving into passenger vans. Hence the lack of removable 2nd row seating.
As for the oversized consoles this too is part of the passenger comfort/convenience and safety aspects. I can’t recall where but somewhere I read about the demise of bench seats and the proliferation of bucket seats. By using buckets with oversized consoles it provides for better placement of people in the event of airbag deployment. That’s probably why Toyota has chosen not make the middle row non-removable?
It’s too bad they can’t just go back to the days of the Previa and it’s folding seating but again the new scope of these vans is becoming passenger centric not cargo. If you want to haul stuff it’s going to be either SUV, pickup or trailer…
As for passenger comfort and convenience I’m surprised these haven’t proliferated or become available:
– HEPA air filters
– Cooled rear seating
– Cooled steering wheel
– K-cup Coffee dispenser (could be installed in those oversized consoles)
– Chilled water dispenser (systems can be installed into 2nd row seats since they are not removable and dispensed through several cup holders)
– Return of the windshield tint band (anyone here not bothered by glare?)