It’s that time of year again, and there are numerous articles out there about the subject of warming up a car when it’s cold outside before driving off. Thanks to changes in technology, oil, tolerances, fuel injection, electronic engine controls and manufacturer’s recommendations, the mantra for some time is to just drive off, gently for the first couple of minutes, as there’s supposedly nothing to be gained by letting an engine slowly warm up at idle speed. So I was a bit surprised to run into an article promoting a pre-drive warm up.
I happened to check in at Jalopnik the other day, and ran into Jason Torchinsky’s post promoting a pre-drive warm-up. Here’s his main point:
The reason has nothing to do with fuel or my latent desire to pollute your driveways — it has to do with oil. When your car has been sitting out overnight, all the lubricating oil that’s coating all of the crucial, moving bits of the car has settled down to the bottom of the oil pan. When the temperatures are really cold, not only is that oil not near the areas it needs to be, its viscosity — ability to flow — has been severely impaired by the cold. You’ve seen how differently, say, refrigerated maple syrup flows compared to hot syrup — the oil is the same way.
So, when you start that cold engine, it’s essentially running without lubrication. If you start up and immediately put a load on the engine, things could get damaged. It’s just not ready to go. Take a minute or two to get that oil pumping around before putting any load on the engine, and your pistons and camshafts and turbos and other spinning, moving bits will be much, much happier.
Now, you don’t need to idle for a half hour, but a few minutes just to get the fluids a bit thawed out is not a bad idea at all. Have a stick shift? Have you ever felt how sluggish the stick feels on a really cold morning? Think about all the components inside that housing, and how they’re doing. Let the car have a moment to wake up and spread some warmth and fluids around.
Frankly, there’s no harm in a short warm up, but his point about the oil and lack of lubrication is not really accurate. Oil pressure builds almost instantaneously, and oil is essentially non-compressible, which means that the positive displacement oil pump will pump the same amount of oil regardless of how cold it is. And if one is using the appropriate oil, it’s not likely going to have the consistency of refrigerated maple syrup. And for what it’s worth, cold oil has better film strength than warm oil.
I’ve been long convinced that driving off reasonably gently is no different to a cold engine than sitting idling. And it will warm up the engine faster. And the transmission isn’t going to warm up while sitting idling anyway, unlike Torchinsky claims. But when it comes to issues like this, everyone has an opinion. What’s yours?
I’d let my car warm up, so its warm in the car, and so the ice melts off the windshield.
Who wants to sit in a car thats 20degress on the inside…
This, and not so much any concern about modern engines and oil, would be my reason for letting the car warm up. I live in Southern California now, so this is not a major issue (what will likely be our harshest cold spell, with temps down to 33F, is behind us), but when I lived in Madison and had to park outdoors, I’d let the car warm up and start to defrost the windshield (while I scraped the rest of the windows). When it’s -20F or worse out, you want to have the car at least a little warm before driving off–hard to concentrate on driving when your teeth are chattering and you’re peering through a six-inch clear spot in front of you.
(Canadians and Midwesterners will back me up on this!)
Agreed. It’s not about the health of my engine. I let my car warm up because: 1) I can, because I have a secure, private driveway; 2) My GTI is very slow to warm up and deliver heat; 3) I need the defroster to work now, not ten minutes from now. I’m pretty sure my engine enjoys this kind of treatment, too, but its the driver’s needs I’m concerned about.
No one should answer this thread without stating their location. Paul’s damp 40-degree morning in Oregon is different from my 14-degree morning in Denver. Your practice will also be influenced by whether or not you park in a garage. Indoor parking keeps the car warmer, and running a car indoors is obviously a bad idea. So we can debate this, but there are probably several right answers to this question.
Never more than a 60 second warm up , I start the engine and then set seat belt , radio , lights and release the park brake , I’m a mile or so from the Freeway so I roll along slowly and by the time I reach the OnRamp it’s warmed up and ready to roll .
-Nate
Once again, Nate: you’re right. I’ve always done the same, drive normally. Unlike a niehbor I had would warm his Silverado for at least ten minutes on the rare sub 50 degree winter mornings here in South Florida.
No WOT redline runs until the coolant temp comes to normal- I have yet to have ruined an engine, including a 4100 Caddy Eldo that was still running well at 120k.
I do admit my 240D I had in Dallas would take about two minutes to run well in subfreezing weather, probably due to tired injectors. And she was converted to dual batteries, and that starter was amazing. I would grind and grind on her some mornings, she always would eventually start… Whr whr, clack, thrack, whr, clack, thunk, shake, thunk, then eventually purr…with an amazing smoke show. The heater took at least 20 minutes to work on those cold Texas mornings.
“I do admit my 240D I had in Dallas would take about two minutes to run well in subfreezing weather, probably due to tired injectors. And she was converted to dual batteries, and that starter was amazing. I would grind and grind on her some mornings, she always would eventually start… Whr whr, clack, thrack, whr, clack, thunk, shake, thunk, then eventually purr…with an amazing smoke show. The heater took at least 20 minutes to work on those cold Texas mornings.”
Typical results of failure to do routine valve adjustments , ” Diesel Purging ” and , in extreme cold , cycling the glow plugs twice before even trying the starter .
I had a clapped out NA Mercedes Diesel from TEXAS that was sold to me as ‘ junk ‘ because it wouldn’t start , and when it eventually clattered into life it only ran on two or three of it’s _five_ cylinders for several minutes , chuffing smoke the whole time .
Following the proper starting drill made it start in 5 ~ 10 seconds of cranking and it ran O.K. if unevenly .
A valve adjustment , Diesel Purge and ” Italian Tune-Up ” later , it ran quite well indeed .
Replacing the bad thermostat made the heater work blistering hot in under five minutes as is normal for any German water cooled vehicle .
-Nate
Likewise here. I’ll normally wait for the airbag light to go out, put on my seatbelt, put it in gear and go.
My oddity on starting: I’ll wait until I hear the fuel pump stop buzzing before I’ll hit the starter. No sense in grinding when the FI system isn’t fully primed yet. Got into this habit from my 2000 Triumph Tiger, where it was expected, and there was a fuel injection indicator light.
A lifetime of owning GM products, with morning knock, or piston slap, has taught me to “warm it up”. That being said, my buddy has a 2000 Chev sport side, with a small block. When he starts, it you would swear, it was going to throw a rod. He allows about 5 seconds from cold start, to jamming his right foot down. 300k KLMs {180K miles} still knocks like crazy on cold start. So who knows?
I had a 2000 Silverado with piston slap, but it never got worse in the 40k I drove it, including having it parked outside for two Maine winters while my ill-conceived Integra project took up its space in the garage. I never really let it warm up before driving off, but limited engine speed to below 2000 RPM until the temp needle got above the “C” line. That strategy seemed to work fine, although on the especially cold days (single digits or below) the transmission would almost go into tow/haul mode and hold the 1st/2nd shift until it got warmed up, then it would shift normally.
Even if viscosity isn’t explicitly affected by temperature, there are other properties affected by temperature, are there not? If such were not the case, why are some people wary of aggressive driving when oil temp is low? There’s got to be something behind the cold oil=thick oil myth.
I let my car’s fast idle pull it for the first few blocks if I’m able, then drive gently. My Civic seems to really be sensitive to cold, and the fact that, despite its tiny radiator (which runs half the width of the core support), it rarely has to run the fan in the summer, leads me to suspect that the engine’s construction has very good heat conduction, and that it’s often running colder than is ideal. In fact, my fuel consumption drops pretty dramatically in the winter (5 mpg). It seems to run more quietly if I let it warm up for a long time, but since that’s wasteful, I never do so.
I will start it and take off immediately, but gently. As thin as most motor oils are these days, it will still flow as designed at cold temperatures.
Exactly. Five minutes of gentle driving to start is all you need, even in the dead of winter. Some old wives tales never die and the Torchinsky article isn’t supported by the facts.
Speaking of car related old wives tales, we could probably do a great piece on them. Some of my favorites: “I don’t wear seatbelts because its better to be thrown clear in a crash”. Another one is the insistence of some to use premium fuel in cars designed to run perfectly on 87 octane, as it “good for the car”. I’m sure my fellow CC’ers have plenty more..
If the outside temperature is 50 degrees or warmer, I’ll fire the engine up, put it in gear, and I gently move the car.
“A car will last much longer if it only has one driver”. “I always run it a quart low because it just ‘throws’ it”. “I am low on fuel so I better speed up so I make it to the gas station before it runs out”. “If you rest your hand on the gearshift lever it will wear out the transmission “. “If you put your automatic transmission in neutral at stops it will keep you from wearing out the ‘bands’ “.
My BIL used to say you should never have multiple keys on your key ring because it’s hard on the ignition switch. I used to laugh at him. Damn you, General Motors. 🙁
“The gas price doesn’t bother me…I always refuel for € 30”. (any other currency will do)
I am starting the engine and roll away really slow. The engine cold idles at 2000 rpm an I make that my limit. Sometimes I give it a little time, for example when I have to clean the windows from ice or snow.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/
location: Iowa.
I do a few minutes warm up. Going to be -18 C tonight so will plug in the Focus as well. It’s getting a little grumpy on cold mornings, being a 2001 and all.
Also planning to bundle up tonight & change the oil in the Caravan. Brrr.
500 extra Man-Points for DougD today! 🙂 Oh wait, I read that as -18F, not C. Still, . . . . .
I think those are more likely OCD points or stupid points. Normal folks get someone else to change their oil in the winter..
It can’t wait another day or two? The forecast low tonight (-19C) is the coldest night for the next 7 days. The weekend’s supposed to be pretty nice.
Done, Wasn’t that bad, only -7C (20F).
Hardest part was driving up the ramps without slipping or overshooting..
Canadian Tire has a sale on spatulas – just the tool for those mid-winter oil changes.
Once it comes down from its initial start up rpm spike (there to shoot a little extra gas into the mix to warm up the cat’s quicker) I’m off.
Once you have positive oil pressure you’re good to go. Just idling an engine might slowly warm up the coolant, but it won’t do a thing (figuratively speaking) to warm up the oil, which is what you really want to do. Oil temp gauges are good for both cold engines and warm engines, if you know what you’re looking at.
This, exactly. I have 2 problems with the warm-up. Letting the engine idle without load could cause some gas seepage into the crankcase.
Also, seeing the temp gauge rise fools the driver into thinking the tranny, CV joints, diff, etc,. are warm.
Drive off gently after 5 seconds(max), and avoid hard acceleration.
FWIW I live in Maine, and I want at least 200k from an engine, and have had excellent results for 46 years of driving.
Just so ~
I get to see the insides of older engines a lot and the ones that get long warm ups ,all have serious amounts of sludge in them , even when modern oils are used .
Idling longer that it takes to get situated and buckled up etc. is *very* hard on your engine’s health .
-Nate
Of course this is nonsense. Sludge buildup is caused by turning a car off before it is fully heated and all condensation and blow-by burned off.
The story I grew up with was that too much idling was hard on the valve train and could cause carbon buildup and cat problems as well. I don’t know the validity of that with today’s tightly controlled emission systems.
Oil pressure gauge in some old timers like K-car New Yorker is something to stare at, a good indication about how warm the oil is.
For driving my slant six powered volare, if I don’t warm up the car thoroughly on a 40- day, the car would be sluggish for rest of the day. But it wouldn’t be long before it snows ( at least here in Michigan ) so the days for warming up the slant six is numbered to me before putting it in storage in fear of road salt.
Transmission feels slightly different before warming up though, but I guess the transmission pressure in that ’93 New Yorker’s is near south though.
I usually let the engine idle for no less than a minute before I put it in gear. And even then, I don’t usually turn the heat on until the temperature gauge moves just past the “C”.
I am of the minimal warm-up school. Multi-viscosity oil is multi-viscosity for a reason. Does anyone run a straight SAE 30 or 40 weight anymore?
Start the car, get belted, check the mirrors and such, then idle in reverse down my driveway and into the street, I am easily at 45 seconds before the lever goes into drive. Admittedly, the colder it is outside, the more gentle my acceleration for the first half mile or so. I figure that after 3 minutes, that oil is flowing like it should and off we go. I have never experienced an engine failure driving like this.
I think that fuel injection is huge here too – in the old days too much running with the choke on would dilute the oil with gas, which does not lubricate well at any temperature.
My dad is a firm believe in running straight 30 in the warmer months and 10W30 only in the winter. He was grumbling at me just the other day that the owners manual for his truck stipulates 15W40 year-round. The Olds diesel still gets filled with heavy-duty 30 weight. I wouldn’t be surprised if he puts that in my mom’s Roadmaster as well.
Getting oil flowing is only part of it. Metal parts change size when they change temp. Clearances change as the temp of the engine changes. Then there is thermal stresses caused by temperature gradients in engine parts as the engine parts go from cold to hot. The goal is to bring the temp up as gradually as possible to minimize thermal stresses, and to minimize the dynamic stresses on the engine parts until the clearances are what they should be.
The only time my car gets to warm up is if I have to scrape the windows. I just drive easy for a bit. In the Matrix, I know things are good when the car will shift into 4th; she won’t do it when she’s too cold. The Focus just … doesn’t whine anymore when she’s warm. Do you know what I mean? You can tell just by listening.
I think John Muir’s advice from the Idiot manual is still sound, whether you drive an air-cooled VW or not: let it run at idle just long enough to roll and light a cigarette, then get busy driving (gently at first).
Since I don’t smoke, I figure a minute or so is plenty. That’s a little less time than it takes me to crank up, hop out and open the roll-up door on the machine shed, pull out, close the roll-up, and hit the road.
Our cars sleep in that odd thing called a garage – er… “storage shed” to many.
That said, I start my car, get settled in the seat, buckle up, plug in the phone, adjust radio, turn on the ditch lights when it’s dark enough – most of the time – and put her in reverse and ease out of the garage.
I keep it slow thru the neighborhood until I hit the main drag and still ease it all the way to the highway about 7 miles away.
For that matter, I still keep her slow – around 62-63 mph in the curb lane all the way for the next 35 miles until I get off my exit about 4 miles or so from work.
I drive slower than many due to my vision issue, plus I’m against traffic, so traffic is lighter and it saves fuel.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know… “get off my lawn”!
I do drive faster on the way home, at least at the speed limit on the highway, if that’s any consolation!
OK, just who left the windows down? Damn kids! 🙂
I always just start them up and drive them. Why waste gas letting it idle for 30 minutes while it warms up? They’ll do that in 5 minutes of driving.
I have a 2007 Kia Spectra and in Thunder Bay, Ontario, it is commonly -30-40 degrees Celsius in the morning. It is a 5 speed, and I have synthetic gear oil in the tranny, but it still is pretty stiff and is isn’t happy if I drive it away right away. I usually start the car, shift through the gears, and go back inside for 2-3 minutes, then go. The car is much happier, and then when I start driving, it goes to normal temp quickly. I have started it and driven shortly thereafter, and you can feel that the car isn’t happy. Maybe it isn’t as noticeable with an automatic transmission.
I have always, let mine warm up a little. Just what I was taught. Now I can say that my newer cars like the 2014 Town and Country and 2014 Wrangler when ever they start the rpm starts high then settles, in the colder temps it takes a little longer to settle. Good thing for the factory remote starts. I let the 2012 Suburban sit a minute as well. Now my older ones like the 84 Trans Am, it also has to idle down as do my two 1985 Dodge Caravan’s. The 78 Trans Am also idles gigh until I punch the gas a bit and if warm the rpm goes down. Now on the tow Dodge Caravans, both 1985 with the 2.6 Mitsubishi engines and that Mukini Carb, the actual water temp has to get a little warm for it to “settle down”. May not need to. but after 74 vehicles and 26 years of driving, I will continue my bad habit of playing it safe.
It is a safety hazard to get in a car and drive off when the windows are covered in ice or all frosted up. In which case I let the car warm up for a few mins until I can get the windows clear. Don’t know how many times I’ve seen cars on the road in bitter cold with just a tiny clear spot in the windshield – these thoughtless people are putting themselves and other drivers at risk.
Hey now, I have many thoughts going through my head when I do that! 😀
+1
A woman who lives in a house a few down from me drives a “school bus” (F250 van) for some local bus company. This is in fact her daily driver, some racket! I’m not a big fan of hers or her family but anyway…
One of the most pleasurable things I saw last winter was her leaving her driveway in the school bus, not having brushed off the van and cleared the windows. She cleared less than half the windshield (I can just hear her cackling that she is late). What pull around the corner and is right behind her? A city cop.
She was pulled over in less than 3 houses worth of distance and I could hear the cop yelling at here from my driveway. Priceless.
I warm it up in the garage with the door open, of course. I put the heater on medum and leave the car. I go inside the house through the garage, wait about six minutes, then go back inside the car. The heat usually comes up by then . Then I back out of the garage, close the door with the remote opener and go on my merry way.
I don’t want to sound like a super tough guy here (ok, actually I do) but it was -31 degrees Fahrenheit this morning. I don’t care who you are, -31 is really, really cold. A person would be VERY foolish to not let the car warm for a minute or two. Personally, I always shift into neutral, turn the DEFROST setting to high with full fan, and let everything warm up for at least a couple of minutes. My truck has a transmission temp readout, and I can verify it will warm up (a few degrees anyways) just sitting there. The reason for the defrost on high – even though it’s blowing cold air, is that if you wait until it’s hot, and blast the hot air on a frozen windshield…results are quite predictable.
+1, for all of the above.
I have a block heater on my ’14 3600 Impala, and my ’97 5.7 K-1500 pickup. They are on timers. I haven’t been able to find one for my wife’s ’12 Tiguan, or it would have one too.
When it gets below 20, they get an hour of heat in the morning. I have bulldog remotes on the two wagons, and once a month I use the timer function to let them run for 20 minutes.
The Impala, the Tiguan and our (former) ’00 Yukon and ’08 Passat VR6 wagon all delayed the transmission shift points to build engine heat.
When we lived in a place where it actually got cold (around 30 F), my dad would let his cars sit in the carport idling away for an eternity while he went back in the house to finish getting ready. Not sure it did a bit of good, and may have done more harm than anything else. I never allowed more than a couple of minutes to “warm up.”
Now I’m in SoCal, so I start the cars, adjust the mirrors, etc., and go (taking it easy for the first few minutes). Recenly, my neighbor started his Astro and went back inside his house, and someone hopped in and drove away. But that’s another story.
The car is parked in the driveway. I start it and let it idle for about 10 to 15 seconds. Then for the first mile or so I drive through the village calmly, in 2nd and 3th gear. Then I arrive at a road with a 100 km/h speed limit, I gently accelarate through the gears to that speed. After about 10 km I arrive at the freeway with a 130 km/h speed limit. Once I’m there I’m speeding it up to a number slightly (or not so slightly) north of 130 km/h and leave it there.
De-icing, whenever necessary, while letting the car idle in the driveway.
That about wraps it up. Must be fine; 264,000 km on the odometer now with only fluids and filter changes. And a T-belt at 150,000 km. Glow plugs, injectors and turbo all original.
But it’s 9 degrees C where you are. 😉
5 degrees this morning….
But I follow that procedure regardless the temperature.
Only if it’s really cold (below -5C that is – winter generally isn’t that cold out here) do I wait a bit before rolling off in the Citroën Berlingo Diesel I often drive. It always fires up right away after letting it preheat once. The first 10 min I do drive gently to let it warm up calmly. There’s no use in stamping on the pedal anyway because it’s even slower than when it’s warmed up – and if you do, your ears will suffer because the van tends to be a bit cranky in the morning.
I wait for fast idle to drop, which takes about a minute. I don’t really see much need with modern fuel injected cars though, If anything detremental is going to happen from a cold startup it’s probably going to happen the moment I crank it. Warming up the car so the windows defog and the interior warms up for winter is a different story.
Depends on if there is ice on the car. No ice… get in it, start it up and let it run for a minute or so then take off, the Chevelle might need an restart if i manually turn the choke/fast idle off on gunning it, or didn’t give the mechanisim enough of a chance to snap to full choke/fast idle. its transmission is also a bit more stubborn about things when it gets cold.
My 340,000 mile Explorer – eh jump in it and go, it doesn’t really care. It only cares when it gets hot, then the transmission gets very lazy about shifting.
If there is ice on the cars, then it gets a 5-10 minute idle session and me with a scraper.
I live in a mild climate and maintain my vehicles beyond manufacturers standards. Since my teenage years I have always (warm or cold start) let my vehicle idle at least for the length of time the “Fasten Seat Belt” light and buzzer lasted. My vehicles equipped with oil gauges have proven this to be more than enough time for an engine to reach its operational oil pressure.
I live in a mild climate, so no warm up, or even a block heater is necessary. Modern oils are very thin and flow remarkably well, even at low temperatures, obviating the need for a long warm-up. I start the car, turn the phone to silent, put it in the console, put on the seat belt and slowly motor away. Maybe 10 seconds, max.
You know back when I was in school a block heater was a must-have in Minnesota. I had a 2.3 Mustang that usually would not start without one if the temp was below 0. But my last 3 vehicles have not had them nor have I needed them. My last stubborn starter was a 2000 4Runner.
Every vehicle I’ve ever owned has been very stiff if left for long periods of time in cold weather, and when I say cold I’m talking below about -10F. Steering, transmission, just about everything that moves gets stiff. I had a 4Runner whose front end would get so stiff that if I parked on an icy patch it wouldn’t hardly move until I put it in 4×4.
So yes, I do warm it up, but typically only a minute or two. I then take it easy until things start to feel normal again. There’s more to it than just the oil. There are many parts and pieces that don’t work the same in the cold as they do when it’s warm.
That’s cold enough for my kitty to desperately crawl back to the house from whichever hole he can find without me opening the door.
My feels generally stiff in cold weather. The seats are leather (brrrr). I start it up and let is idle for 15-30 seconds in the winter, and run through all the trans positions a couple of times. We’ve been in the teens (F) for about a week and it’s much more elastic if I do this, plus it gives the heater and seat heaters time to spool up. The trans shifts are hard the first couple of times if I don’t warm it up a little.
My cars are parked in the garage so being out overnight is not an issue. I don’t let them warm up but instead drive gently for a couple of miles, until things reach operating temperature. Back before I had a garage I would sometimes let the car warm a little before driving; this was dependent upon the car. My VW Rabbit (with the Bosch fuel injection) could be driven as soon as it was started, while the Mustang GT that replaced it (with a four bbl carb) needed to sit and idle for a short period before it was happy being driven.
I let my car warm up a few minutes if I’ve used it the day before.
If I’m in a car that’s sat for a week or more, it gets to warm up for 15 minutes.
I do it mostly so that it’s nice and warm inside. I hate driving with a coat on. I feel like a puffy marshmallow.
Heat + Heated Seats (In one car only) + Time to Warm Up = Happy Driver!
If I am home the car is in the garage at night. So I let the engine idle about 30 seconds until it idles down to about 1000 RPM’s before I go. Then I try to keep the engine under 2500 RPMs until I have gone about 5 miles. In winter I take it easy for about 10 miles.
My engine has some sort of GM stuff that is like synthetic, but supposedly better. If you have 30 weight oil that is of the conventional kind (not sure that it is available) then when it is cold out the concerns about warming the engine are justified. But who uses this kind of oil? Well, OK, those of you with really old cars probably do (or should), except in the winter.
Different metals expand at different rates, and aluminum expands/contracts more for the same temperature difference versus cast iron. If you have an engine with a cast iron block and aluminum heads, it seems reasonable to me that the clamping forces on the head gasket are lower when the engine is cold versus normal operating temperature. (Granted, many engines have “stretch” bolts to try to maintain consistent clamping forces.) Also, you will get “scrubbing” of the head gasket (and other engine gaskets) as the parts expand. IMO it is better to let that happen slowly to minimize the chance of failure.
It can take up to a minute before an appreciable amount of oil reaches the rockers to lubricate them. I have seen this. I made a special “test” valve cover for my Chryslers with a hole cut in the top, so I can run the engine and see the valvetrain in operation. I can’t imagine the situation in my truck is any better. Also, my testing was done in the summer. May take even longer for the valvetrain to get oil in the winter.
Some engines, especially older ones, have “flat tappet” lifters, unlike new engines with roller lifters. These rely on splash oiling and oil trickling down from the heads to prevent metal-on-metal contact and galling. Cold oil IS thicker than warm oil. I don’t feel like burning out a cam and lifters just by being impatient. On that note….
> And if one is using the appropriate oil, it’s not likely going to have the consistency of refrigerated maple syrup.
it can be pretty close to that. I’ve changed oil in my driveway when it was below freezing before. I’ve learned to do it when the engine is warm, and keep the fresh oil in the house until you’re ready to pour it in, especially the 15W40 in my Cummins. Otherwise you’ll be there FOREVER waiting for it to pour.
I also shift (automatics) from park into neutral while the engine is warming-up, so that the fluid pump in the transmission is working. This circulates the fluid and also warms it slightly. In my truck, the computer won’t let the trans shift into 4th gear until the fluid has reached a certain minimum temperature, which basically limits my top speed to 80km/h (50mph) until then.
This becomes a problem when the ambient temp is about -10C or below. On weekday mornings when it’s that cold, I go out and start my truck, shift it into neutral, then go back in the house and finish getting the kids ready for school (probably about 5 minutes, though I haven’t timed it). I take off gently. I’ve been driving my truck long enough that I can feel when it’s still sluggish because it’s cold, so I know when it’s OK to drive normally. Fortunately, my commute doesn’t usually require me to immediately jump onto a major highway.
I only drive my Chryslers in the warmer seasons. I always wait until I can drop the idle RPMs down off fast idle before I shift from park/neutral into gear to back out of the garage. Then I usually let them warm up at least until I see the coolant temp needle move off the bottom before departing. And I don’t do any spirited driving until the needle is up to normal operating temp.
With older stuff, this was an issue, but with modern oils and engines, the top end will receive lubrication almost immediately. Sixty years ago, 0W20 synthetic wasn’t even a dream. I have seen it at cold temperatures, and it flows surprisingly well.
Multi – Vis oils were not available 60 years ago but ” Winter Oils ” in 10W , 20W were and smart Folks knew to do that end of season hot oil change if they wanted easy starting in that old worn out ’42 Chevy 216 with rubber cased 95 CCA 6 volt battery and ” Target Lubrication ” system (dippers & splash) .
Simply using 5W whatever oils now makes your starter work *much* less at this time of year and no , they won’t damage things if you get a warm spell .
-Nate
“I also shift (automatics) from park into neutral while the engine is warming-up, so that the fluid pump in the transmission is working. This circulates the fluid and also warms it slightly”
Not necessary.
As long as you are spinning the torque converter you are adding heat to the transmission fluid. Shifting into neutral might heat it up faster though.
It definitely seems to help with my truck, though a trans temp gauge is the one thing I’m missing to get good qualitative evidence of how much difference it makes.
The transmissions in my Chryslers and my truck do not engage the pump when in park, but they do in neutral. Due partly to that, there’s another reason to shift in neutral during warm-up if the vehicle that sits for an extended period between runs (e.g. my Chryslers). The trans fluid slowly drains back into the pan, so the torque converter, etc. aren’t full anymore. Shifting from park directly into gear will result in a lot of slippage, which is obviously bad.
That is necessary on Old Chrylsers and the other vehicles that use a 727 transmission. That is why they must have their fluid checked with the vehicle in neutral instead of park. In park the fluid is not directed through the torque converter.
Interesting.
I had forgotten about the checking-fluid-level-in-neutral thing on old Chryslers. I never knew the reason for it, or if I did It has long since left my memory for good. Makes perfect sense, though. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
I just get in, start up, belt up, lights if necessary and go, sensibly.
The only time I’d wait is if its freezing and I need the electrically heated windscreen to do its stuff.
As Paul points put, sitting idling only warms the engine not the transmission and unless you’ve got a BMC FWD drive, that’ll have a separate oil circulation anyway.
Our cars get the full 10 minute run time on the remote starters before the first use on extremely cold days(-20 to -40+) then driven slowly to allow the transmission and other fluids to warm. Engine heaters are used when -10 and below are anticipated as well. I always leave the steering in the center so as not to load the hydraulics. These temps blow hydraulic lines and in some cases cracked steering boxes. Synthetic fluids are far easier on equipment but I still use caution. Cold has a different definition depending on location.
The picture of the car filled with snow reminds me of the the story a friend of mine told me a long time ago. He saw a convertible with the top down completely covered with snow and thinking what schmuck would leave a car on a snowy night out with the top down. Then he realized it was HIS car.
I recall many times trying to start my dad’s 1968 GMC pickup on cold mornings. It was cantankerous on cold mornings. The ’68 had a manual choke (’68 the last year for GM pickups with manual choke, IIRC). Pull the choke knob all the way out upon start. Push the choke in and it would idle fast. Had to allow the engine to warm up or else it would stall. On those same cold mornings, it was also tough putting the transmission into 2nd gear.
I recall a product called “Starter Fluid” where you spray the stuff into the air cleaner intake or carburater throat. Anybody have experience with it?
How do the today’s gas-electric hybrids, plug-in hybrids and 100% electric cars handle cold, snowy weather?
From what I’ve read, electrics handle the cold quite well, although their range is diminished up to 1/3 or so. Which is a pretty important factor considering their range is pretty limited to begin with.
I talked to a couple of Tesla owners last summer, and their experience seemed to be that just driving in the cold didn’t reduce the range much, but the heat is also electric, and that caused a considerable drop.
Yeah, they say heated seats can help a lot and allow you to keep the cabin temp down, but I know my wife wouldn’t agree.
” Starting Fluid ” is just Ether in a Foo-Foo can , nothing else in it , not even when it claims to have oil in it to save your engine , I know because I use the hell out of this stuff to wash recently cleaned parts for painting and if there was any oil whatsoever , no matter how minute a trace , I’d get ‘ fisheyes ‘ in the paint and so far , never .
_ever_ .
I buy it by the case all year ’round as it also cleans carys without attacking those unobtanium 50 + year old plastic parts or your liver and kidneys like carby spray does .
The manual choke thing : yes they’re handy and you’re right : when the carby’s fast idle linkage is properly adjusted (rare but it happens) the first 1/4 of choke knob movement , is all fast idle , no choke flapper atall ~ you’re supposed to start the engine and then ease the knob in to where the engine remains idling but not loading up on too much fuel .
Automatic chokes are supposed to be adjusted Seasonally , once again operator failure to maintain the vehicles causes any auto choke problems .
Block heaters are great , for those who want to cheaply add them there are radiator hose heaters you cut and splice into the _lower_ (inlet) hose , a tiny bit of warmth here makes the engine start easily and you get heat in two minutes to boot .
If you have a garage , shed or (ahem) a barn to park in (anywhere there’s no wind) a 20 watt light bulb dangling underneath the engine works amazingly well .
-Nate
Here in the mid-Atlantic we don’t get temperatures below 0 Fahrenheit really ever, and below about 20 F in the morning is rare. We do, of course, get frozen windshields here and there. So if I have to scrape, I’ll start the car up and then get the windows clear, and it’s usually started to heat by the time I’m done. If there is no ice on the windows, I generally give it just a moment for the idle to start to come down, then motor off gently. Only one of my cars has an oil pressure gauge, so I’ll watch that plus idle speed in that car.
My first car, a ’79 Malibu with 150K+ miles on it (in the late 90’s), did *NOT* like cold starts. As in, I not only had to let it idle until it reached operating temperature before driving off, I usually had to sit in it with my foot held down slightly on the gas for the first minute or two. Otherwise it would stall out immediately. After those first couple minutes I could let off the gas, but unless I let it get fully to temperature, it would still try to stall any time I came to a stop. I don’t miss that!
My 79 Malibu didn’t like starting at all unless you knew the code. Two taps on the gas. I got it in “96 with 150k on it!
It did ok in the “cold” but Nashville didn’t have bad winters while I was there.
I miss that car. I don’t miss some of its quirks.
Yep. Pump the gas twice before starting, in any weather, otherwise it usually wouldn’t fire. I always considered it a theft deterrent–someone trying to steal it probably wouldn’t know how to get it started. 🙂 It became “mine” in ’96, like yours, but was in our family for its entire life before that.
Starting a carbureted car in very cold weather – another of my skills that has become almost completely obsolete and useless. If this keeps up, soon I won’t know how to do anything. 🙂
From what I’ve been told, it’s not necessary, if the engine is fuel injected, to pump the accelerator, just turn the key. I do give the engine less than a minute to warm up before I put the transmission in “drive.”
+1 I TOTALLY agree! 🙂
Laughing. My grandparents bought it new and it was passed over to family friends before it came “home” to me.
Best story: one of the seatbelts didn’t retract right when the car was new. My grandfather took it back to the dealer, who found a smashed soda can in the belt holder.
Easiest car I ever sold. I think it took two hours and I got the price I wanted, even though the car wasn’t going into reverse.
Wow. Curiously similar Malibu experiences! My grandfather bought the car new, gave it to my Mom in ’86, and I got it when I started driving in ’96. Never sold it though–it hasn’t run in almost 15 years but I hope to get it back on the road someday.
That soda can story is hilarious, and probably sadly typical of GM build quality at the time!
I encountered this on two other web sites and gave what seemed to be an almost solitary rebuttal to Torchinski. In the days when Muir wrote the idiot manual I think it was almost mandatory to give it a minute or go through engines pretty regularly. The petroleum industry has been busy since then. If I allow my car to idle five minutes will not warm it and it will be at fast idle. If I drive slowly (slightly faster than idle) it takes about 2.
I think with the above mentioned article I mostly resented being told that only an idiot would disagree. Frankly, there are so many variables that one technique will not serve all. I found that on my little stretch of two lane blacktop my 6″ window that I thoughtlessly made was very large before I hit much traffic. Btw I use 0w30 in the winter and I think this past 2 week period will probably be the only winter we have (close to Houston). I hope so. I remember Connecticut, Maine and Newfoundland.
Generally fire the Vic up and go, but when it’s as cold as it was last week (lows below zero Fahrenheit) I’ll fire her up, lock the doors, and come back in 5-10 minutes. Gotta love Ford’s keyless entry keypads 🙂 .
On a modern, conventional ICE vehicle, I am not inclined to warm it up for any lubrication reason, although I definitely take it easy until the temperature gauge moves off the peg. I figure when the coolant has some heat in it, then the block and head are coming up to a uniform temperature; prior to that red-lining the engine could have some parts heating up very rapidly while others are still relatively cool, theoretically inviting warp. But let’s be honest: even in winter, the swing from ambient temperature to operating temperature is not that great in absolute terms, when you consider what it takes to melt aluminum, steel or cast iron. I remember Bill Gardiner or Jim Kenzie years ago on Motoring TV (TSN? Canada? Minessota+?? Anyone?!?) saying that modern engines are not the slow-to-adapt, low compression, cast iron machines of old, lubricated with bunker c and fueled with cooled with, literally, water. So don’t waste your fuel – don’t idle it to “warm up”.
I know they’re not completely comparable, but I more or less follow what got drilled into me when I was learning to fly. Nothing over 2000 rpm until the motor reaches operating temperature, then you do your run-up procedure. My daily commute happens to consist of a 4-minute, 35mph speed limit drive to the interstate, then 20 high-speed miles on to work. The temp gauge is most of the way there by the time I hit the on-ramp. If nothing else it makes me feel better, and it can’t hurt.
“And if one is using the appropriate oil, it’s not likely going to have the consistency of refrigerated maple syrup”
Until you encounter -40F/C. There is a reason block heaters exist. Startup is so laboured it sounds like it’s in slow motion. Steering, clutch and braking feel like you are dragging the controls through thick sludge. The suspension crashes over bumps because the dampers are frozen the point of being useless. The car simply doesn’t warm up, the coolant needle won’t even move unless you drive on the highway and keep the engine under load and the revs over 2000 rpm for a while.
When you are talking about anything warmer than 15F, you aren’t talking about winter as far as a Canadian is concerned.
Here in Winnipeg, it’s not uncommon for the temp to dip to -30C/-22F overnight. I give the car at least a minute before I start to move it.
I live in Buffalo, and drive at a slow pace to the Tim Hortons drive in 2 blocks away where I get my morning coffee…I drive a Honda Element which has pretty thin 5W20 oil…on top of that I always use synthetic….Cranking is easier with the thin synthetic oil and the engine is lubricated almost instantaneously
Above all else , _this_ : ” Cranking is easier with the thin synthetic oil and the engine is lubricated almost instantaneously ” .
Too many folks want to bend the machine’s ability to their will , this cannot be done .
-Nate
Until it kicks down in the carbureted car and smooths out, and I’m very gentle for the first 4-5 min if it’s cold out.
Back in 83/84 I had my 76 Courier at college in Potsdam NY, which is about 3 hours north of Syracuse, 10 miles from the Canadian border, in a valley. Every year there be a week or so of -30F nights and several more weeks below zero. It started every time, without a garage or block heater, and I didn’t warm it up as I was usually late for class.
My current situation is a bit different here in San Diego. My daughter swoops for the seat heater switch and whines on those few weeks when the morning temperature is 40.
And I’d love to hear the back story on that picture….
So would I.
If it’s really cold and I have time, I let my car warm up for a few minutes (3 or less). If I’m in a hurry then I don’t. It’s more so the car can warm up enough for the heat and heated seats to be warm when I get in.
Here in St Louis, we’ve gotten into the single digits a few days this year. I typically do what others have mentioned. Startup, back out of driveway after about 30 seconds and let it coast to the end of the subdivision. Unfortunately I have a hill at that point and I make a conscious decision to keep it around 2000 rpm. Sometimes is a jack-monkey is on my tail that can’t happen but it’s all about easing into it and not making the engine labor too hard.
As the subaru gets older I notice it struggles more and more with shifting into overdrive, especially on cold mornings. So we stick to the slow lane and take our good old time.
I figure, “in cars years” this ’93 is an old man so we have to take it easy and not get too excited on our morning commute.
Of course during the summertime, we have a great time revving to our hearts content..as long as we keep it below 4000 rpm!
People’s preferences / comfort zones vary as much as their vehicles. I have three vehicles that are used more-or-less regularly in the Wisconsin winter, and they all behave differently in extreme cold.
My wife’s Mazda 5 can be started and driven gently as soon as the idle stabilizes (about 30 seconds). My high-mileage PT Cruiser doesn’t sound good to me when it’s stone cold, below about 20 degrees F, so I give it about a five minute warm up. I don’t know if it’s piston slap or valve train, but it just sounds a little loose even though it always starts and runs great. Perhaps I am just a bit paranoid.
My Isuzu carbureted dinosaur always starts right up and runs well regardless of temp, but I prefer to drive it during warm-up to get it off fast idle ASAP.
A mechanic was interviewed in the local newspaper just the other day, and also recommended a short warmup period. YMMV.