I got this question from Josh:
I’m looking to buy a 70.5 falcon from a friend of a friend, and I just can’t find enough info on the internet of the value of one. Its stock, 250 I6, been kept in the garage for 18 years. All original. my friend worked on the brakes to free them up, but other than that (in his opinion) its mint and a steal. The guy wants 5k. Any Ideas?
Well, I told him some 57, 000 of these were made so they’re not really all that rare. But I’m not an expert on valuating cars. What say you? Great deal, or walk away?
5K for a 1970.5 Falcon? The really rust bucket era of Fords! Run, don’t walk.
It’s easy to said run don’t walk but on the other hand, how many of the 57000 1970½ Falcon still survive in this good condition?
True, but it won’t survive for long unless it’s in Arizona. The early 70’s Fords were rust generators. Meaning that they started to rust as soon as they were built.
Didn’t rust any worse than anything else built during that time. Especially Japanese cars. One was lucky to get 4 good years out of one here in n.e. Ohio.
While a neat car, $5000 is a lot for a bottom-of-the-line mid-size Ford. The 6-cylinder (& likely automatic) drivetrain will get old fast. Unsticking the brakes doesn’t hide the fact that the car sat for 18-years. Get ready to overhaul pretty much every mechanical component.
$2,500 maybe. But only if the purchaser already has a reliable daily driver.
That’s my point of view. I say $2500 and don’t rely on it as a daily driver but a “hobby”.
(Of course this the opinion of a guy who got a 1967 Mustang for free, dropped $2700 in it and has another $5,000 to $10,000 of repairs and upgrades in his head.)
I wouldn’t go over 2k on it, especially with the six.
Also, the locale is important. That’s a vinyl top I see there and they trap moisture, god knows what’s under it.
After 18 years, seized brakes are probably the least of the issues. There’s moisture in those lines, and in the master and wheel cylinders. And just wait until you dive into the engine cooling system.
If you want your friend to remain your friend – and his friend to remain a friend – do as 83LeBaron suggests, and run, don’t walk.
It’s way too much money for what you’d be getting, or not getting, as the case may be. Let him sell it to someone who will swap a big block into it, or will let this “rare treasure” sit for another 18 years.
> Let him sell it to someone who will swap a big block into it
With the number of posters on CC that cheer for grocery-getters that still have their original inline 6’s under the hood, that comment is sure to ruffle some feathers. 😉
It only ruffles feathers when it’s a pristine example that some older owner lovingly cared for…not the case here.
Not true. Every time some daily driven beater with an inline-6 is showcased here, it’s praised as a refreshing change from over-restored cars that have had a V8 engine swap.
Buy it, baby it, fix it, and sell it to an old lady or the ghost of Paul’s dad (probably still is a cheapskate in the afterlife).
Anyone who buys a car like this, well it had better be for love and not money. The car, rarity or not, will never be worth anything. A strippo six cylinder Ford is interesting to those of us who like originality, but will never be flip for profit material. Josh does not say what body style, but if it is a four door sedan, everything I have said goes double.
That said, there is a certain charm to a well preserved time capsule. I would be hard pressed to go over $3k. As said above, the brake system is certainly rotted from the inside, and will require everything from pedal to wheel replaced. After that and everything is done, it will probably still be worth only $5-6 k even then (and only if it is really, really nice).
Mileage is also not mentioned. I have found that a lot of people will call an old car “mint” when it is far from it. If there is a single rust hole or a single split in the upholstery, the car is not mint. Also, I second what everyone says about rust. These will rust in places you didn’t know a car had.
Have to agree, $5000 is way too much for this Falcon, unless it’s a car you really love and plan to keep forever. I paid $6000 for my Torino Cobra with 429 and 4-speed (granted, in 2001) in similar condition.
It’s a steal alright……for the seller.
I not a good judge on value, but I do know I wouldn’t pay that much for that car. It wasn’t a good car to start with, it’s not a classic, and it never will be no matter what you do to it. It’s neat, but not as interesting as say an old Pinto or Gremlin as far as bottom line cars go.
To each their own though. It’s worth what somebody will pay for it.
You know, I did a bit more looking on these. I didn’t realize this Falcon also came in a 429 Cobra Jet version. That does make it a heck of a lot more interesting model, and it can actually look pretty decent. But to make it something nice would be a major project with a poor return rate.
http://blog.cardomain.com/2009/11/24/cardomain-obscure-muscle-car-parking-lot-the-1970-5-ford-falcon-429-cobra-jet/
I like this a lot,needs to be an eyeball searing shade of orange though
Something interesting about these old, original grocery-getters is how close one in pristine condition is to the original purchase price. A new 70½ Falcon started at $2599, and that’s just about what a really good one is worth today.
As everyone else has pointed out, unless it’s one of the rare, high-performance specials, there’s a very narrow niche for these in today’s world (and buying one to make a killing later on isn’t one of them). Really, about all they’re good for is as a cheap car show curiosity, something different from all of the typical sixties’ ponycars, intermediate musclecars, and Tri-5 Chevys.
If I wanted it I’d max at $3000.
First off $5k is too much for the car, but I’m surprised with the number of people saying to stay away from it altogether. We don’t know if the above pic is of the actual car, but I presume not.
I also can’t believe the people saying to stay away from it because it has poor return on investment. Huh?! There are very few old cars that you could restore and actually break even if you sold them. I may have been in that position with one of my cars (the convertible) once, but then 2008 happened and the bottom fell out of the market. Not like I intend to sell it anyhow.
Josh doesn’t say what he intends to do with the Falcon, where it is from and where he lives. If it really is in good condition still and he wants it for a fair-weather only car (no winter road salt!) then there may be many years of life left in it. I wouldn’t recommend it as his only vehicle. Josh also doesn’t say whether he’s a DIY’er or will be relying on a shop for maintenance and repairs. If the latter, the bills could quickly add up.
If it has been sitting for an extended period, I agree there will be issues, and some of these won’t be apparent until you start driving it. Weeping hoses, cracked vacuum lines, leaking water pump, corroded electrical connections wouldn’t surprise me at all. Many would recommend to replace the tires as well, regardless of their visible condition.
I disagree that the brake lines will necessarily be rotted out from the inside. If the brake system was actually bled every 2-3 years while the vehicle was in service, it’s quite possibly fine. A look at the contents of the master cylinder and what came out of the bleeder valves when bleeding the system would be very telling. Clear or yellowish is good; Brown mud is an obvious bad sign though. (That’s what one of my Chryslers looked like when I bled the system right after buying it. The only component that desperately needed replacement however was the vacuum brake booster.)
Unfortunately, Josh will have to get this info second-hand from his friend who did this work. He should find out for sure, but there’s a good chance the brakes were seized because the shoes were stuck to the drums. Possibly the owner left the parking brake on, which one should never do when parking a vehicle long-term.
The above pic is of the car
$5,000 seems like a good price for this car if it was in very good, daily driver condition and could be made perfect with only a little elbow grease. Anything sitting that long is gonna need everything gone over and it’ll likely take another thousand or so dollars just to get it on the road – IF you’re lucky and you’re doing all the work yourself. Without knowing all the details, I wanna say ~$2,000 would be a fair price, but you really wanna get something like this for $1,500 or less.
Too bad the price is stupid, because it’s a neat and (now) obscure car that would’ve made a nice project before people started believing anything from the “Muscle Car Era” was worth it’s weight in gold. I’d love to see one of these done up like a vintage rally car from an alternate universe with a hot rodded, multi-carb six and column shift 3-speed + OD tranny (which I think may have actually been available on these).
Get one of those mobile mechanics who will come to your house to do an eval in front of the current owner, then take whatever he says it needs off the purchase price. That’ll get the asking price down to a reasonable amount.
Brakes, carb, electrics, body seals (don’t be surprised if the foot wells and trunk are filled with water the first time you leave it in the rain), sludge in the oil pan so it has to be dropped, cleaned, and put back on before the oil pump does it’s job, water pump seal, rusty alternator and voltage regulator causing intermittent problems…all that will get you down to $1999 in no time. And get a quote using rebuilt NAPA parts, not remaned crap from Autozone/China.
The only thing not wrong with it is probably the rust free body.
Anything else wrong with it guys?
A tip about rubber body seals: If they are not actually disintegrating or torn but just dry with some surface cracks, go to the drug store and get a bottle of glycerine. Gently rub that into the seals to recondition them. They will absorb the glycerine and soften up.
Re: sludge in the oil pan.
Pull the dipstick to look for signs of water or coolant in the oil. Could have got there a couple different ways, but there’s a possibility that it could have taken out the bearings. If it was just some condensation in the crankcase you may be OK. Drain the oil and see if it comes out murky.
Oil on the dipstick looks good? Pull the valve cover. That will tell you a lot about how well the engine was maintained. If it’s pretty clean under the valve cover, then there won’t be sludge in the oil pan either. You can probably shine a flashlight down the pushrod and oil drainback holes in the head and see further down into the engine looking for sludge or unusual wear.
Once the engine is running, the hydraulic lifters will clatter for awhile because they’ve all collapsed from sitting so long. This is normal. Let the engine idle for awhile and they should all quiet down. May take up to 15 minutes. Don’t rev the engine, just idle it. Leaving it on fast idle is probably best.
If you haven’t done it already, while the valvecover is off is a good time to crank over the engine by hand with a long-handled rachet wrench to make sure that nothing is stuck. Some guys whack the valve end of each rocker arm with a rubber mallet first. You don’t want to discover a valve is stuck in its bore when you start the engine and bend a pushrod.
The usual DougD rule is that any old car that you can have on the road and enjoy for less than $10k is a good old car.
In this case I would say $5k is a fair price if the car is not rusty and very good cosmetically. As others have said if it needs work or is at all rough we’re looking at 2-3k. Friend of a friend deal always raises a bit of a yellow flag, proceed cautiously. Even if it’s been stored for 18 years it had 25 years to become crappy before that.
Our guy Josh had better be prepared to fix things himself, or learn quickly because paying others to fix cheap old cars is a losing proposition. He might have a great time expanding his capabilites and keeping an old car on the road. He might not, so ask yourself some tough questions about that and read “Road Rocket” by Henry Gregor Felsen.
Good Luck!!
The biggest question I would have is: What is your motivation? Is this a car that appeals to you on every level or is this something that would be groovy to have around? Is it something with some emotional attachment or would it be a great chick magnet? What you need to do depends upon your answer.
At a minimum, replace all fuel lines and the tank (if available). You’ve had 40 years to accumulate crud in the tank. Also rebuild the entire brake system from the pedal out, as others have said.
If there is any rust of any magnitude, note that. Given what it is, you’ll have some; the question is how much and where.
Then, knowing this, how much is the asking price on one in good shape?
To echo the others, it is easy to spend entirely too much on a car of this vintage. Having just gone through the exercise of resuscitating a dormant car, it gets hard to know where to draw the line between a practical way to get it going and throwing money at it so it looks like your fantasy mental picture of it.
Then, once you get it going, don’t be surprised if more problems erupt within a few hundred miles. Then once that is fixed, expect it again. Think of it as lather, rinse, repeat! 🙂
> At a minimum, replace all fuel lines and the tank (if available). You’ve had 40 years to accumulate crud in the tank. Also rebuild the entire brake system from the pedal out, as others have said.
Replace the gas tank?! Drain whatever gas is in it, which is surely bad. If you’re worried about it, drop the tank and look inside. If the filler neck is behind the license plate, there’s a good chance it’s a straight pipe so you can see into the tank if you shine a light down the filler neck. If there’s a lot of crud in the tank drop the tank and rinse it out. If there’s too much or it’s stuck too badly to rinse it out, take the tank to a shop that will “boil” it out with chemicals. A rad shop can probably do this.
I wouldn’t bother dropping the tank unless it looks like there is really a problem. The inlet has a sock on it to catch any big chunks of “crud”. There will also be an inline fuel filter before the carb to catch smaller particles that could clog-up the needle valve or jets in the carb. That should be replaced.
The fuel pump on this car will be a mechanical pump on the side of the engine which sucks fuel up from the tank. That means that the fuel line all the way from the tank to the front of the car is under suction. You don’t need to worry about spraying fuel all over the place if there’s a leak in most of the system. You will have a hard time starting because the line will lose it’s prime every time you shut it off. Any rubber lines should be inspected and probably replaced, but a fuel leak between the tank and pump will become obvious without turning the car into a fireball.
Yes, I fully admit replacing it is likely overkill. However….
When my ’63 Ford was last ran with regularity in 1992 it was parked with a full tank of gas. It was started briefly in ’97. When I pulled it to my house in ’08, I went to drain the tank. Nothing came out. The fuel had disappeared by some freak of nature and there was nothing but sludge in the bottom. That, along with two pin holes on top of the tank, prompted replacement.
Boiling vs. replacement could be one of the new long standing debates around here (no, we’ve got plenty! 🙂 ) My thought was start fresh and know what you have without having to pay for boiling a tank that may not be up to the task in the first place.
My dad’s 1966 Chrysler was parked in his garage for about a decade with a full tank of gas. That was drained and refilled with fresh gas and my brother used it as a summer driver for 2 or 3 years. Then it went back into the garage with a full tank of gas, where it’s been for about another decade. If/when it gets put back into service, I would just do the same thing again, except in our case there will eventually be a problem.
At one point while it was my dad’s daily driver, the tank sprung a leak. My dad had the inside coated with a “slushing” sealer. The old sealer formulations are not alcohol resistant. New gas containing ethanol is slowly breaking down the sealer which is getting caught in the fuel filter. (My brother told me he had to change the fuel filter a couple times while he was driving it.) I have a spare gas tank in excellent condition, but it was not stored properly so there is surface rust inside. An excellent candidate for boiling out though. (I may even try doing it myself with some muriatic acid from the pool store.)
I’m just looking for a cheap muscle car I can drive in the summer d havr fun with it. I know this isn’t a 69 roadrunner or 68 GTO, but with the torino/fairlane looks, I could pretend its a muscle car 🙂
A friend once said to me : “If you like it and the price is okay by you, that is what it is worth.”
I’ll add to that: “If it’s in good shape and priced well below the cost of bringing a rough one into the same shape, it’s a much better buy then the beater, no matter what the cost.”
Further: “If you are buying it as an investment, your wallet and financial sense are too small. If you are buying a good time, it’s much cheaper than a woman.”
Ahh, another thing to add…never buy a car like this without a covered place to store it. Car covers won’t cut it. Even if this car is completely rust-free, One good soaking is all it takes for a slight leak to find its way to the carpet. The carpet will wick up any water like a sponge & the padding will retain it for months. The floorpans won’t last long.
Supposing the car doesn’t leak a drop, water will still accumulate behind the front & rear backlight moldings and eventually rot out the channels. Once a hole rusts through underneath the chrome (you won’t see it until it’s too late), water will enter the trunk or body & promptly rust out the quarters and in this case (Ford), the cowl area.
Buying an old car is a lot like having children I guess… you gotta be prepared!
If you can get it for a lot less,like half price or less and can fix it yourself and have the time,tools and space go for it.I like Fords and 6s but I’d be tempted to check out a few more cars before buying this one.I’ve nearly always gone for a good runner with a decent body,paint,chrome and interior and tried to keep on top of it.
I disagree with some of the comments on here. I agree that $5K is a bit much for a plane jane old Ford, but when considering that a decent 10 year old minivan would cost nearly as much, $5K doesn’t seem too bad for something that will get as much (more?) attention in traffic than a $60-70K BMW, Audi, or whatever. Just have a mechanically-inclined person check it out thoroughly before buying. If it’s going to be a toy and not a daily driver (and you could get him down closer to $3-4K), I’d say go for it.
Bonus: Rust issues aside, these things are pretty simple to work on. A cheap set of Walmart tools, a can of WD-40, and a little disposable income and you’re in business.
I have some experience with both putting mothballed cars back into service and inspecting the mechanicals of cars with questionable service history. I can’t believe the work that has been suggested as “mandatory” in the comments. A car that was presumably drivable when parked should not require a full mechanical restoration.
If you do a thorough inspection and look carefully at the condition of things as you go, you can potentially save a bunch of time and money versus the “worst case scenario” of replacing everything, and still get the car roadworthy and just as safe. If the car in question is really bad enough that it needs EVERYTHING, then it’s not worth much more than scrap value in its current state; it doesn’t even have a desirable engine, so the only thing that would be left is a good body shell.
One thing that (amazingly) hasn’t been mentioned is steering and suspension components. Balljoints, tie rod ends, etc. may have been “okay” when the car was parked, but not tight enough to pass a mechanical safety inspection. Again, don’t replace everything just for fun — inspect and replace what needs it! Have someone turn the steering wheel side-to-side while you look for play in the steering. Bounce-test the car at each corner to check for worn shocks…..
I can’t believe the work that has been suggested as “mandatory” in the comments
I agree. The CC group seems to be a hardcore bunch.
Maybe it’s because we’ve actually been there and done that.
Yeah, but so have I. While I agree that a car that has been sitting is going to have issues, and we can recount stories of finding this problem or that, but not every car is going to have every conceivable problem when you try to revive it. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. A thorough inspection is going to give you a good idea what will need attention right away.
(If it wasn’t obvious, wantonly changing parts instead of diagnosing problems is a real pet peeve of mine. 🙂 )
I think most of us here have some experience with project car stuff and with getting in over our heads.
However, I’m more on BigOldChrysler’s side of things that “not every car is going to have every conceivable problem when you try to revive it.”
My comment was a little too snarky…I’ve been through so many cars…and sometimes even now I look through rose colored glasses at potential purchases.
When giving advice to others regarding (what I consider) an expensive purchase, I tend to take the worst-case-scenario route. Sometimes it’s safer to err on the side of caution.
I’m the “Josh” from the original email. The car has lived its life in northern Indiana and has no rust from what I’m told. 38k miles, 2 doors. My dad (when he was young) and his buddies are the car guys, but not me. I have a cavalier right now that gets me around, and do normal maintenance like oil and air filter changes, disc brakes changes, transmission fluid change, but not much more than that. I wanted to find a muscle car on the cheap that I can drive around in the summmer that wouldn’t break the bank. I don’t want a hobby car, because that’s just not my thing. I figured if I found a car on the fringes, I could be happy with a semi-hot rod and not pay a whole lot. I’ll be looking at in person next sunday.
This is not the car for you then. This car is likely slower than your Cavalier performance-wise: it’s not even a semi-hot rod with the six cylinder. You’d have to change engines which automatically makes this a hobby-car.
For $5,000, you can find a clean 275hp Camaro or Firebird or a very nice 5 liter Fox body Mustang, or short box pickup truck and have a much faster vehicle. You’ll have $7-8000 in this car and it would still be slower than a 5.0 Mustang.
I’m not knocking the Falcon: it’s a cool car, but I don’t think it’s the car for you. If you don’t have a garage or carport to park it under, it’ll be rusted out in just a few years.
+1 on Junqueboi. DougD rule #2 is do not depend on a classic car for daily transportation. It’s not nice for the car, and not nice for you. I’ve argued this on TTAC a couple of times (mostly on the 1978 911 as daily driver Piston Slap) but your experience will be ruined by the time requirements. And the waiting for parts.
As he said, keep the Cavalier or if you must, get something sporty but modern. Enjoy the chase and the research of getting an old hobby car, sometimes that’s the only fun part.
I saw the picture. If the car is from northern Indiana and looks that good, then it is indeed a genuine low-mile car. I grew up in northern Indiana and can tell you firsthand that these things do not naturally like that climate, so if you buy it, keep it off the road during salt season, or it will not last long.
At 38K, it has probably had one brake job in its life, but that was still probably decades ago. Brake fluid absorbs moisture like a sponge. I recall buying a 20 year old/20 k mile Plymouth Fury, and the inside of each wheel cylinder was rusted and pitted beyond saving. Its a wonder they were not leaking, probably sealed by the rusty fluid. The master cylinder failed right after I did the wheels, but I did avoid doing the lines.
These are nice, simple cars and you can learn a lot fairly easily on them. However, an old car is more of a relationship than most young drivers think it will be. Even when those were late model cars, they required more upkeep than the modern cars you are used to. But you could certainly pick something a lot worse to start with.
I have two running driving registerd vehicles of this era. ALL old cars are hobby cars. Even if this car was already an every day driver it would STILL be a hobby to keep it running and working correctly. A 43 year old car is not going to be a gas it and forget it enterprise like your Cavalier. If trouble shooting and fixing cars is not your thing, then old cars are not your thing…
Me likey. If that sucker’s as solid as it looks then fixing any mechanical issue will be cake. C’om on folks… it’s a pushrod straight six with a damn carb, not some goofy ass Volvo with Bosch early injection (don’t ask) or a Jag with two cams and inboard brakes or anything bullshit like that… it’s a freakin’ ANVIL. Much like my beloved V8 powered ’78 Fairmont I resurrected as my fair-weather daily driver. I’ll bet I don’t have but $2500 in my ‘Mont including all I’ve done to make her more reliable. Hell, had I seen that car before I purchased my ‘Mont I’d have bought the damn thing. I wouldn’t pay more than $3k though.
Hey, people. From what I read, $5K is the asking price, right? Does everybody always pay the asking price? No. Ask what is the lowest price he’ll accept, or make him an offer. Right? And, don’t you look a car over really good, or have it taken to a mechanic to have an inspection of it, before you make the guy an offer? And, personally, I’ve never been much of a horse trader, you know, going back and forth with low-ball offers to see if the guy will bite. But, I do like the looks of the car. Liked them back when they were new. My uncle bought a green 1970 Torino when these came out; green was my aunt’s favorite color. In my estimation, compared to Chevelles, Novas, Chargers, Roadrunners, GTOs, Camaros and Mustangs, Torinos are rarely seen at car shows. Like I say, I like the looks of the Torino, but don’t really know what it is really worth as I can’t adequately judge the condition. But, I might offer the guy 3K or even 3500 if I thought it was worth it. Because I like having something that not everybody else has.
Did I ever mention I have a Cimbria SS? Not Only that, but I own more than one. Two (a red one and a black one) are running condition, and one needs completed. Do a search if you’re unfamiliar with the rather rare car. Found them all in Ohio.
After 50 comments there’s not much new I can add, other than to join the choir about how inflated is the asking-price. $5K for this is reasonable only if you’re planning on paying in Monopoly money. For US currency, about half that would be more like it.
Also, as other commenters have said, if you’re looking for some sort of muscle car, this may not be the vehicle for you anyway. It might have the general body shape of a muscle car, but with no actual muscles. And if it’s a chick magnet you seek, you need to ask yourself exactly what sort of chick a 1970-1/2 Ford Falcon would magnetize. My guess is such females would be both scarce and peculiar.
If you need a car to attract chicks then you’ve got bigger issues… much bigger issues.