In today’s superb post on Bertone and the Mazda Luce, I re-encountered a car I had forgotten about, Marcello Gandini’s 1967 Fiat 125 Executive concept (Bertone). It reflected what may well be the high point in automotive visibility, what with its huge and airy greenhouse. Obviously, it looks a bit extreme from today’s vantage point; in 1967 designers were pushing the limits of how glassy cars could be, given the technological changes that made it possible. In the early-mid 1950s, cars still had quite small windows. And Gandini in particular was a fan of glass, at the time.
Gandini’s Lamborghini Marzal was my heartthrob in 1967, and glassy sides figured into it in a major way.
So when he transposed the Marzal’s design language to the Fiat 125 chassis, the roof line got a big tall; almost pope-mobileish.
I’ve already said my piece on the Camaro, so we’ll spare it in any more vitriol. But can you find more extreme examples of these two different design themes?
Well, other than this obvious one? As I said, 1967-1968 was the high point in this trend.
The first gen Isuzu Trooper, especially in 2-door form. Had one of these growing up as my grandpa and dad’s “fishing car”. Had plenty of room to fit anything.
That did not stop my Dad from backing into a light pole in a parking lot with his growing up and causing a LOT of damage (thanks rear mounted spare tire); the split tailgate was notorious for hiding objects like this. I did the same thing in an Econoline conversion van in my adult years, but without any real damage.
I don’t know about Cars of All Time, but the car I’ve owned with the airiest greenhouse was my Chevy Beretta, and the car I’ve driven with the airiest greenhouse was a Fox-body Mercury LTD wagon.
Fairmonts (other than Futura) certainly rank high. So does the Volvo 700 series.
I came here to say Fairmont. My college roommate had one and the openness stuck with me. Wouldn’t mind finding one with a 302 and dog dish hubcaps for that sleeper look.
Got a ’78 302 powered 2 door sedan just like that 🙂
700 / 900 wagon, as well. In my 945T the vertical amount of glass on the back gate was so tall that I couldn’t see the top and bottom of it in the rear view mirror at the same time.
The airiest.
That’s what I was thinking. So airy that the air conditioning never stood a chance.
If you were talking in comparison to the lower body sheetmetal, I think the Pacer was one of the airiest. Here’s the wagon model.
My first thought was also the Pacer. So much glass that the windows couldn’t even roll all the way down into the doors.
Another vote for the Pacer!
I think the pacer wins.
I would give honorable mentions to the Rumpler tropfenwagen and the Messerschmitt KR 200
Messerschmitt KR200
Pacer was the one that came to my mind, as well. The rolling aquarium. Runner up could be the 23 window VW Microbus.
How about Detroit Electric (original, not the revival)? It even had curved glass, rare back then.
Most pre-1990 wagons are perfect see-through vehicles. Like this Opel Omega A.
Or Audi 100 Avant.
Indeed! Or Citroen CX, or Ford Granada, or Volvo 240 or 740 wagons…
I resent today’s thick pillars and low windows. I’m 184 cm tall, which isn’t so unusual, but the truth is, sitting in the back of most modern cars is frankly unpleasant (Volvo V40, ouch!!), and even sitting in the front is not so nice. I had a 1st gen Ford Focus wagon for several years and really liked it, but there is no way I’ll ever buy the current Focus. Same thing about the Renault Clio. I drive a Ford S-Max now, which is fine, but why should I have to buy a SUV or a crossover just because I want to actually SEE outside my car without wringing my neck? The Volvo V70 seems to be the last man standing among classic wagons, and how many years does it have left? But maybe we have come full circle, the Camaro may be a hard act to follow.
Current Citroën MPVs have these pillars, see the C3 Picasso below. The main A-pillar, let’s call it that way, seems to be thinner than on other modern cars. Also, it’s more vertical, instead of very sloping.
I don’t know if it works, or if it’s just a design gimmick.
You’re absolutely spot on. Almost alll German station wagons from about 1960 to 1990 have a very definite big, deep window/narrow pillar buzz going on. Early Passats, VW type 4, Kadetts, W123 for example
Lamborghini Espada
Gandini had a very clear design language going on at the time. When I saw the lead photo of that 125 Executive, it immediately brought to mind his design for the Iso Lele/Lamborghini Jarama. (No, not the same car, but clearly variations on one theme). And the Espada is cut from the same cloth.
GM’s four-window sedans
My vote also goes to the 1959-1960 GM 4 Window sedans.
Tatra 613: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Tatra613_2I.jpg
Also, from the rear it looks like the Fiat 125 concept, even though the Tatra 613 was designed by Vignale.
i’d say the tatra 603 has the 613 beat…
The GM J-car (Holden Camira/Opel Ascona) had a particularly airy cabin that let in plenty of light and was well-ventilated.
In my memory, the worst would be the Datsun 180B Coupe. So much black plastic, high dash top and low roofline. It was a cage.
I think the rear window vents lived on in my first car, the Fiat 128sl.
Is it me or is there a bit of Fiat 125 Executive in this?
I always liked the greenhouse on the 3nd generation Honda Prelude.
Not counting chopped and channeled customs, I’d say the 1929 Ruxton is a good candidate for ‘tightest’ greenhouse. Among more common cars the early-30s Hudson roadster models approached the same proportion.
Two UK examples from the early ’60s would be the Vauxhall PB Velox/Cresta (1962) with it’s wrap into the C pillar rear window combined with a flat roof line:
http://www.phdimage.co.uk/vauxcresta/our1964pbcresta.jpg
and the Hillman Imp (1963) – no wrap rounds but thin pillars all round and quite high glass:
http://www.safetydevices.com/i/vehicles/922-1.1315312457.jpg
Though for uninterrupted forward vision the Chrysler Norseman (1956) would take some beating:
http://dwtauthor.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/ghost-of-norseman.html
though it’s probably a bit rusty by now…
Second the PB Vauxhall great visibility and with a 3.3 engine you needed it they got places rather quickly
The Toyota Crown Comfort has a high roof, ample glass area and good side and rearward visibility – kind of a requirement for its role as a taxi.
Chrysler Crossfire is rather turret-topped, like the Camaro.
The Crossfire ranks as one of the two most claustrophopbic/poor visibility vehicles that I’ve ever driven. The other? Camaro convertible with the top up.
Alfa 1750. Friend of mine had one about ten years ago. Felt like I was sitting in a tram.
Max Z, the four headlamps in same 5″ diameter and wider Alfa Romeo grille denote it as larger displacement 2000, not 1750.
My family had a rare 1750A Berlina in exact shade of red colour for a couple of decades. That large glass area and seats trimmed in black vinyl were deadly combination in oppressive hot summer in Dallas, Texas!
Nice! Have to say I was only in one once and think I’ve only ever scene one. My dad had a 2002, and the a/c barely worked, so everyone always referred to it as the hot box. I think your alfa would have been its Italian equivalent.
I’ve (obviously) got a soft spot in this regard for the ’65 six-window sedans.
The Windstar may not have been a looker but visibility was excellent.
I don’t think my 66 Chrysler 2-door hardtop has a blind spot either, and with the peaked fenders you know exactly where the corners of the car are.
Aspen/Volare Wagon
another vote for the Volaspen as the airiest, the sedans too. I have a 79 wagon and thank goodness for Mopar air conditioning! Best visibility of any car Ive ever driven.
Also another vote for the new Camaro as the worst. Ive driven several and they all feel like driving a coffin. The new Challengers are similar but not quite as bad.
1919 Model T middle door sedan
The Chevy HHR was terrible to see out of. Very short windows, low roof, thick pillars. The panel version was obviously worse, but even the regular wagon was aweful.
The Camaro convertible is abysmal. Even worse than the coupe when th roof is up.
My Infiniti G20 had an airy cabin. The seat height was low, but the windowsills were only about 2/3 of the way up the seat and the roof height was average for a ’90s compact. Very thin pillars, too. Very easy to see in every direction.
Here’s one no one mentioned yet — the 1961 GM Bubble Tops (1961 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 Holiday Coupe pictured).
Least airy, 71-73 Mustang fastbacks by far, a blind spot measured in city blocks.
Most airy, first gen Neon sedan huge windshield and very small “C” pillar
I always liked the first-generation Acura Legend coupe — lots of airiness in the greenhouse, harking back to an earlier age.
Here’s the best in terms of outward visibility that I owned — Volvo 240 2-door sedan.
This to me looks pretty airy. Saw one of these Maseratti Quatroportes in person at the LA auto show last year as well and it’s smaller in person and the greenhouse looks nice. This example is from 1963 I believe according to the image search.
I’m pretty sure many Lamborghinis beat the Camaro in terms of bad visibility (and other metrics lol) since most of them had no rear window.
1988-1991 Honda Civic sedans – lots of glass, low beltline, thin pillars, and low dash/cowl.
These may not be exciting, but I think it may be one of the most under-appreciated, and near-perfect designs for its task.
My vote, too. Still miss my ’88 LX. Handled like a go kart. And I second Hank on the design.
I owned a 1990 LX 5-speed sedan for 15 years. Entertaining yet very practical and built like a jewel. I see a hint of 1980s BMW 3-series in the profile.
Honda nailed it in that era with visibility. The Civics had it and so did the Accords–my ’91 Accord LX had the best visibility of any car I’ve ever owned. The low cowl helped as much as the thin pillars.
And the 88-91 civic wagons had even more glass due to their tall boy nature. Front passengers in my wagon are completely freaked out by having nothing in front of them from the waist up but the windshield glass.
I nominate the 2000-2004 Fiat Multipla. The styling is… styling (I guess), but there’s no denying it has Popemobile levels of greenhouse.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/fiat/multipla-2000/
For least airy greenhouse, I nominate the 1938 Phantom Corsair.
Wow that’s. . . a different looking car for sure. How would you even see out of it to drive the thing? That would be scary on the road!
this nice GT was deservedly nicknamed “the Glaserati”
the K 70 was very airy indeed
> the K 70 was very airy indeed
It’s “uncle” the NSU Ro-80 isn’t far behind, especially the windshield that seems to wrap into the roof.
My airiest greenhouse(lowest beltline): Tie between my ’81 Buick
Century and ’96 Ford Contour(Mondeo). In the days before
air bags and such, being able to SEE OUT OF ONE’S CAR
constituted the very essence of common-sense design! 😀
Least: ’08 Kia Optima. I have to open my door when backing
up into a parking space! People look at me like I’m backing
up a tractor-trailer or a 747!
Best greenhouse I’ve driven is my ’77 Buick Electra 225. The Olds is almost as good but the Buick has the sloping rear trunk which makes parallel parking in Manhattan a cinch.
The worst I’ve ever driven was a 2013 Dodge Charger sedan I rented. That thing was like driving around in a cave.
The airiest ever greenhouse–I agree with the posters above—the ’59-’60 GM 4 window sedans, but perhaps not the Cadillacs–the greenhouse was airy but the view was blocked by the fins which I understand some drivers would momentarily mistake for other cars coming up beside them.
Worst: What’s out there now. My sense is they’re all like that Charger I drove to a great extent.
As far as I am concerned, most modern vehicles suck big time when it comes to visibility. A backup camera is no substitute for being able to see out a large window.
My personal favorite is the 1990 Honda Accord sedan. Handsome, and you could see out of it. I still think it looks futuristic today. Honda at its best.
Agree 100%. I have a Volvo 780 currently, which is from the “upright and square” era of Volvo styling, but the ’91 Accord i used to have beats the Volvo hands down for outward visibility.
The Renault R-12 has a pretty nice greenhouse. Greenhouse height goes in cycles. Beltlines plunged in 59, then sightlines became obstructed again in the 70s (look at a 72 Ford Torino, blind to the rear). Then the mid 70s VWs started the trend back to low beltlines and lots of glass, which stayed with us into the 90s. Now cars have gone to the blind extreme again.
I bought my VW over any other hatchback or wagon because of the superior visibility to the rear quarters. More strict roof strength standards have made roof pillars thicker, but VW keeps proving you can still design good sighlines, regardless what Ford, or Hyundai, or Kia, or Honda, or Chrysler says.
The Isuzu Vehicross has to be among the least airiest. I knew a man that owned one and he said when he first bought he ran people off the road while changing lanes often until he got used to it.
From the post war to the early fifties era the fastback styles like the bathtub Nash and the GM aerosedans always looked like they had horrible rear visibility to me.
Just imagining how neat the new Camaro would look if it took more after the Nascar Xfinity Race version…
Big greenhouse improvement.
Looks like a 1997 monte carlo profiled car with camaro like stickers… Oh it is
Every Honda product from the 80s through the mid-90s would qualify. Tall roof, low cowl and beltline. Even the NSX had excellent “airiness.”
Definitely one of the most airy greenhouse you’d find on a production car – BMW 2000 cs
and, if prototypes and concepts are allowed…
I was wondering why this wasn’t one of the first mentioned .
I drove one of these and was concerned if I rolled it, the roof would collapse as it’s -not- a light car .
Has anyone here actually driven a (wretched) prius ? they have awful rear visibility .
-Nate
I have just finished a 4000 miles road trip in a rental ’14 Camaro. I must said I missed bigger green house while driving it. I am 5’9″ 180lbs with short legs (30″ inseam) and long torso. Sitting in the Camaro was quite uncomfortable, with my head close to the headliner but still couldn’t see enough. The door sill is so high that with windows down, no way one’s elbow can rest where it belongs.
I couldn’t agree more. I took a friend’s Camaro for a little joy ride and I wouldn’t car for a second time.
I didn’t even have to drive or ride in a Camaro to decide it was bad; sitting in the one in the showroom told me what I needed to know, especially since my test-drive in a Solstice was fresh in my mind. Solstice must be just as bad.
Fiat 130 Coupe
This thread pretty much proves that extremes are just bad. Too much glass, too little glass, it’s just awkward. I tend to vastly prefer the too little look myself, but the Camaro is just too little and it’s hideous.
The Fiat Multipla from the nineties is up there.
I sure like the short skirts on the girls in the Maximum Mini. So much, I had to go to that post including that vehicle to see if there were any more.
To me, the airiest and best looking greenhouse, was the 1980 Ferrari Pinanconcept 1…
Ferrari 412 with an Opel Senator B front clip?
Also, a best looking, but worst greenhouse, goes to the Lamborghini Miura.
Great looking car, but with the rear louver slats in the back, and those narrow side windows, driving one, must make it a real claustrophobic experience.
I went for a quick ride in a Muira once. The front and side visibility is fantastic. It has a low cowl and thin A-pillars. The rear view isn’t great, but it’s better than any other mid-engined Lamborghini coupe.
The most airy is the 1985 Olds 98 and Buick Electra. The thin pillars were especially dramatic at the C pilar and the door glass went unusually low on the door. These C bodies were just a bit bigger than what was being made in Europe, Japan, or Australia so get added points for being airy on a large scale.
The worse was the Contach. When the large engine Italians went mid engine and got more aero in search of 200mph, they lost all ability to see behind them, or let any daylight into the cabin.
The Peel Trident must surely win some sort of award for airy vision.
One of the least airy greenhouses I can think of is the 1971 Ford Thunderbird Landau Coupe.
The car with best visibility that I owned was the Peugeot 304. Also good in this department were the ’86 Chevrolet Cavalier, the Geo Prizm, and Mazda Protege. The Mazda 323 hatchback has blind spots to the rear.
Going slightly off-topic: Colani’s trucks are just stunning.
What… what are those? Are those “real”, or show…trucks? I dig strange or unusual designs, but those look like something from a Sci-fi movie (in a good way, I like them)
THanks for sharing those, I gotta learn more about them now.
Most airy was my Dad’s ’64 Chevy Impala wagon. With 7 kid, 2 adults, and no A/C; air flow was critical for a family stationed in New Orleans. The window in the tailgate spent more time down than up.
Least airy for its era – Porsche 356 Speedster. Try passing a large cup of beer through the window. In its defense you can at least put the roof down entirely to escape your confinement.
94-96 Impalas and Caprices: lots of glass…
First gen Renault Esapce?
and don’t forget the Austin Maestro – oh, you already had!
My nominations. If most airy can permit a prototype, the Brooks Stevens designed Studebaker Skyview. The slide-open rear roof kicks this very airy greenhouse over the top.
Least airy, 1940-48 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet
The airiest grrenhouse? Without a doubt (in my mind anyway!), the Australian 1979 XD-1988 XF Ford Falcon. XF pictured here:
Slightly off-topic, but John Deere tractors are worthy of mention with their wrap-around windows with the sole roof pillar that is in line with the exhaust pipe, and no other visual obstruction. A very neat solution.
There are plenty of nominees for least airy greenhouse, probably the worst are compact crossovers where the window sill rises above eye level of children and the clear portion of the rear window is less than 12″ tall.
Agreed. When JD introduced the 6000/7000/8000 Series in the 90s, everyone was impressed with how much of an improvement had been made over the cramped and dark Sound-Gard cabs.
The corner-post muffler was the only real improvement that had been made on the “new” 60 Series tractors coming from the large-frame 55 Series, and it didn’t really mesh well aesthetically with the Sound-Gard cab (though it did improve visibility). It was actually an option on the 6000s and small 7000s (7200 and 7400) and the later 6010/small 7010 Series. Those ones used the left-side muffler coming out of the hood, which was standard on open station tractors.
The trouble with tractors is that they give you a lot of glass but not a lot of defroster. You get wet loading a shit spreader in the rain. When you get in the tractor with wet clothes the windows all fog up. Not so airy anymore.
1st gen Barracuda…
First generation Range Rovers are pretty airy- you almost feel like you are going to fall out on slopes!
A 2nd gen Corvair coupe.
I second that. That’s what mine would look like… if it was nice. 🙁
’78-’83 Fairmont/Zephyr, best.
Worst, by far…
I would say the Chrysler K Car and its offshoots. was one of the best cars for visibility. They were cars with a nice upright greenhouse.
I just bought this 1992 LeBaron Landau last week for $700 to use as a winter beater car. It has low miles and working A/C. Even with the vinyl half top it still has excellent visibility. It also is the last(or one of the last) American cars with Brougham pretensions of pillow button type seats.
Now as for the worst. I think the current Camaro is the worst with its gun slit windows.
The worst one I ever encountered was my second Generation Scion XB with its huge assed C Pillar which made seeing rough.
Very nice find! I have been window shopping for a Lebaron Landau for a while now, but they are thin on the ground in MI. I agree that the AA bodies have very good visibility (and also extremely good interior space for the size).
My Dodge RamCharger has a lot of glass.
My Wife’s V70 has some of the best visibility ever.
81′ Diplomat has no blind spot, or ever hang illusion.
80’s Chevy 3 ton with a 5 ton box. Know your distance, or else….
Clark forklift is a glass box.
Any car that does not blow HEAT at -40C is an ice coffin.
Fun fact: -40 is the same in Celsius and Fahrenheit.
My ’79 Audi 5000, ’98 Volvo S70 and ’01 Isuzu Trooper all had great visibility. Then there’s this….