(First Posted December 21, 2014, I decided to rerun this one as well since some of you weren’t here the first time this COAL series ran, this was kind of a special edition real time add-on at the time, the reveal is next week) This morning I told the story of the demise of my Outback. Since the insurance company said the check is in the mail it is time to start searching once again. You guys aren’t shy, perhaps you’d like to help, I know you have an opinion (or two)…
About a year ago while I was writing the last few COAL articles of mine, I started to realize that I’ve had a lot of cars and while I enjoyed almost all of them from a practical standpoint switching cars that often is really not a good thing, especially from a financial perspective. As one matures, different things become important and different priorities emerge.
I still enjoy my cars, but in different ways. The Subaru was not what I would historically have looked for and purchased but I found myself enjoying it as a comfortable, practical car and had really planned to try to keep it for much longer than my norm. It was a comfortable companion, a loyal friend.
However , I am also not getting any younger and since cars are one of the things I enjoy the most, I do not want to deny myself anything even remotely reasonable. Depreciation is a very close friend of mine who lets me take advantage of our friendship as I choose.
As far as requirements go for the replacement vehicle, there are several. I will use it to drive clients around as well as my family of five. So a strict four-seater is out. I actually started looking into a Volt (the technology fascinates me) but realized without the middle rear seat it is useless to me. However, we have a larger SUV for longer trips so my family of five does not necessarily need to be THAT comfortable…
The car has to be safe, i.e. somewhat modern. All-wheel drive, stability control, and multiple airbags are pretty much non-negotiable with our weather, road conditions and high-ish speed limits. While I love the idea of driving a Lincoln Town Car or something more classic like a Mercedes 280 SE 4.5 the reality is that I will be driving others that do not really have a choice in the matter, I feel a duty to be as protective as I can afford to be. If I want to buy that 1975 Civic Wagon that I posted a few weeks ago, that will be my thing to play with on the side, not to subject others to …
I am trying to limit the length to no more than 200 inches. That is pretty much the maximum that I can fit in my garage with the front bumper kissing the garbage cans while still allowing the door to close unless I switch the single spot with the tandem spot that my wife and my other car use and I just don’t want to go there. Our garage layout is the worst aspect of our house although it seemed great when we moved in.
The lower the mileage on the car the better, but 70,000 or so miles is pretty much my upper limit on this car purchase. It can be used or new, the budget can stretch into the mid to upper $30k range (no leasing) and I am willing and able to deal with the risk of potentially expensive repairs. I’d probably put between 12,000 and 15,000 miles per year on it.
So without further ado, here is my shortlist in no particular order. Feel free to suggest others or tell me why one choice or another is either inspired or asinine, hopefully with some knowledge on the subject rather than just what you heard from your cousin Fred’s neighbor Thelma’s butcher etc…For my part I will try to list the main pros and cons (for me) of each.
2005-2006 Jaguar X-Type 3.0 Wagon – I love, love, love the shape. And in hindsight realize that the X-Type sedan we once had really was remarkably reliable and cost-effective even once we pawned it off on my in-laws and they drove it past 100,000 miles before getting nervous themselves and trading it in for pennies.
They are well below my budget. However, the wagons are quite rare, i.e. hard to find with lower mileage at realistic prices and the back seat is not very large. But just imagine a dark green one…If I had Jason Shafer’s barn, I would have one for sure along with something (OK, everything) else.
2007-2009 Audi S8 5.2 V10 – I really like this shape, it is cavernous inside, the regular wheelbase A8/S8 platform (not the “L”) fits the length limitation, and I drove one recently – that V10 engine is simply to die for.
My research indicates that the V10 (and the whole car in general) is actually quite reliable with aftermarket vendors like Arnott able to provide cost-effective solutions to any air suspension issues etc. Gas mileage is a bit worrisome, but manageable.
The biggest issue for me is what perception some of my clients might form of me, but my wife thinks the average person would have no clue what it is. I also might be a bit obsessive about my kids tracking their dirty shoes on the seats etc. but it would be a great experience to own one. (More cost-effective potential alternative option: Regular A8 with Sport Package)
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R – Yes, the new and improved version of what just got wrecked. I looked at one last week and the exterior styling is better than the old one, and the interior is significantly better. It’s also a little wider than the old one which is good and gets better gas mileage to boot.
The engine is a carryover, but the transmission had switched from a 5-speed automatic to a CVT. I have not driven one yet, but think that I may not like the CVT although reviews have been very positive.
The biggest downside is that they seem to be backordered up to ten weeks although my dealer is quoting me around 10% off sticker for a brand new one ordered to my specifications. I could get the same red as my last one, but the new green is a big improvement over the old one. ‘
And the nicer-looking tan interior now has a black carpet which is good around here. The biggest downside is probably that my wife is not really a fan (but won’t stand in the way).
2014 Chrysler 300C AWD V8 – oh, boy, I finally drove one with the Hemi and I liked it a lot! This is probably as close as I can get to the old-skool American classics like the Panthers and B-bodies (and the Chrysler M-bodies, right?) while fulfilling all of my other parameters. I like the lazy feeling when driving it, the space inside, the materials are not bad and the fit and finish is quite good.
The power is wonderful and the touchscreen system is frankly amazingly intuitive and good. The lightly used ones I have been looking at are former rentals but in very good condition, all around one year old with about 25,000 miles on them and in some instances CPO’d from a Chrysler dealer and priced in the lower to mid-$20k range.
I think Chryslers seem to depreciate more than even your average European luxury car on a percentage basis. But even the non-CPO’d ones have a 5year, 100k mile powertrain warranty.
I think I could like this a lot, but if not could probably easily get back out of it after a year or so. The newer ones aren’t styled quite as impressively as the original ones but they also seem to be attracting less of the “Urban”-inspired modifications which I will admit to not being a big fan of.
2007-2009 Audi S6 5.2 V10 – Basically the same engine as the S8 above but detuned a bit (can’t have the little brother be faster…). Supposedly the chassis feels a little more lively as well as the engine growl being even better. I have not driven one but did start one a couple of years ago and the engine did sound fantastic. The back seat is possibly a little bit tight for five but should be manageable.
Pricewise these realistically are in the mid-to-upper $20k range as well depending on mileage and are pretty much invisible on the street. Most of them seem to be black (which is not my favorite since it is very hard to keep clean here and I can be a bit lazy) and the styling is okay but not nearly as good as the S8 above.
2012-2013 Dodge Ram Laramie 4×4 Crew Cab– I’ve never owned a large pickup and kind of like the idea. The biggest problem that likely makes it a non-starter is the length. If I move the garbage cans and the rolling tool chest it MIGHT fit but I have no good other place to put those items. A large truck is alright for taking clients out in here if it is trimmed out nicely enough and there is something about the Ram that I like a lot.
Gas mileage will probably not be that something, though. I’ll be realistic (and truthful) and probably be able to find a REAL use for it maybe a dozen times a year maximum. I do like the idea of trying something very American though. Again, if I just had Jason’s barn….And no, Jason, I have no interest in your van!
2002-2005 Audi Allroad – These are everywhere here but they all seem to have covered intergalactic mileages and/or are completely worn out. My brother used to own one and we have friends with one, they are simply awesome Colorado vehicles.
Big and comfortable with adjustable ride height, a powerful and easily tunable 2.7liter twin-turbo engine and a great image they hit all the buttons. Pricewise, even the most expensive ones tend to be under $10,000 but finding a low-mileage creampuff is difficult, I’ve been on the lookout since we moved here.
(Potential alternative option: 2002 Audi S6 Avant – same body, steel spring suspension, with a 4.2liter V8. Actually a bit easier to find with lower mileage than the Allroad but pricier and the V8 is less desirable than the turbo up here at this altitude between the two of them).
2014-2015 Honda Accord Sport – Yes, even more pedestrian than the Subaru. However, probably the ultimate “No worries” car of the bunch. Probably slightly underpowered-feeling (have not driven one) but nicely finished, roomy, and oh-so-reliable. And fantastic resale value as well. But just sort of boring.
My wife would actively hate it but would admit that it makes all kinds of rational sense. Not sure if I need or want that kind of sense but it’s there as a safe alternative if I need something and need it now and am willing to compromise on the AWD, snow tires would work I suppose.
Readily available and priced in the mid-20k’s (or maybe even low $20k’s?). I’m not sure if an Accord signals “successful” to a client though , that does matter. The Accord is probably the only one of the FWD sedan class that I would consider, for no particular reason. Actually, no, the Passat would be the obvious alternate for me in this case. With the new turbo engine it could work just as well or better and the wife would like it too. Hmm.
2010 Lexus LS460 AWD – Surprisingly it too fits the garage limitation. And what’s not to love about the top of the line Lexus model – Hugely roomy, impeccably finished, all the modern conveniences without worrying about electrical issues and good resale value. The car is perhaps a bit floaty and generally attracts a slightly older clientele but would be a “safe” choice. The pricing bumps up toward my self-imposed ceiling but there should be little to no unexpected expenditures going forward.
They seem to not be available in many interesting colors (black and silver being probably the best and the maroon and gold are not attractive to me) and I’m not wild about that red-tinted wood trim they tend to have (not the one pictured though) . I have not driven one yet but hope to do so this week while visiting the in-laws (Gotta keep myself busy somehow…)
2011 Mercedes E350 4Matic (wagon preferably) – You really can’t go wrong with an E-Class (OK, we won’t talk about the late 90’s to mid-2000’s). The newer ones are back to feeling pretty solid, the wagon looks as timeless as ever and the engine has plenty of power. Like it or not, that star on the bonnet still carries some gravitas and Mercedes have generally been relatively user-friendly from a mechanical standpoint.
The all-black interiors would work well with the kids, and safety is pretty much their middle name. But, I don’t think they are anywhere near the bottom of the depreciation curve and if I get rid of it in a couple of years I think I would take a bit of a bath. For some reason, Mercedes wagons always make me think of either Napa Valley or Cape Cod, not sure why but there are worse places to be reminded of.
2008-2012 Volvo XC70 T-6 – A big Volvo with turbo power is always handy. Around here many people seem to be selling the normally aspirated ones and hanging on to the turbos but when they come up for sale, they are right in the pricing sweet spot, between $20k-30k depending on mileage. They are roomy, the seats are fantastic and they are sort of like an Outback on Steroids.
The first and second generations were overshadowed a bit by the Audi wagons but I think this generation (the current one) easily holds it own. I do despise our local Volvo dealer though which is a concern and am not thrilled about the Chinese ownership of Volvo these days either. However, they seem to be able to rack up large mileages and there are plenty of independent Volvo mechanics around if I don’t want to get my own hands dirty.
So that’s my short list. Who knows, I could end up with something completely different. You’ve all suffered through my long list of previous cars, what do you think I will end up with or what do you think I SHOULD end up with? I’m curious!
I like the Chrysler 300 as well. Another car you may want to consider is the Toyota Avalon, although you may find it a little “old guy”. Good car, though. I also like the Honda Accord, which I think looks great in the dark red pictured above.
Choice #1 = Subaru Outback
Choice #2 = Accord + set of wheels & snow tires
Either one would serve you well for the total ownership experience. An Accord with snow tires such as Blizzaks works very well in inclimate weather
Thank you, lots of people seem to like the Accord with snows, interesting.
PS – You have a fantastic screen name for this site, BTW!
I have michelin x-ice xi3 on my fiesta st. I live in Michigan’s U.P., We record over 300″ of snow annually and i’ve tried blizzaks. the x-ice seem much more highway /high speed friendly. more quiet and at least the same amount of grip if not more.
TireRack rates the Ice higher than the Blizzaks. I currently have the Ice on the Accord Sport manual and I agree. The Blizzaks wear faster and definitely compromise handling.
You really don’t need AWD w/ high tech snows, plus you can stop and go around corners. Ride height is the only limitation.
That C&D article states in the tech notes that the Accord Sport seems to have more power than Honda publishes. Power is no problem. The lighter 4 also makes for better handling.
I grew up in a Volvo family and my two best childhood friend’s parents had a fun tail and a 356 respectively. W currently own a VW and two Toyotas, and I recently sold my Forester XT manual transmission after 10 years. So, with that context, I recommend the Chrysler 300. You have a Porsche and an SUV. Get an American sedan, with AWD and V8. You’ll be happy. I’ve only driven a 2wd V6 but it was very pleasant.
I think if you have Hemi love, get the Chrysler. Love those engines.
I’d surely be looking at that Chrysler 300….
But otoh our (ugly 2009) V6 Accord does fine in the winter on Ice-x tires. Even on those rare occasions when we have snow!
First choice: The LS hands down. Never breaks. Holds value. Isolation from the road. Safety.
Second choice: Audi A8 Comfort and safety.
Third choice: Audi A6 Comfort and safety.
Forth choice: Volvo Safety and dependability.
Based on my experience with the cars I have mentioned. I drove a new Avalon last weekend and was very impressed.
Another Subie. Hands down. After seeing that F-150 and how well your car took the hit, I may consider one myself! And I always love the Accord. You can’t go wrong with a Honda product.
Maybe the Subaru folks will see your story and send you a new one. 🙂
You could write me a letter of recommendation since you’re in the industry! Sounds like a plan to me…
Why not a Subaru XV Crosstrek/Hybrid.
Smaller than Outback, same safe car, and it does come in actual colors.
Do you look at IIHS for safety? How bout a Volkswagen Passat TDI? 50+ MPG, and drive fairly smooth.
I have a Ford C-Max SE , and it does alright in the snow with winter tires. You can get a Thule rack, too, if needed. Power is iffy, torque is even worse, but if you’re not a speed demon, its a nice car. I have a big dog, too, and the dog rides comfortably in the back. I average about 46 MPG, and best I’ve gotten on the highway was a nice 53.3 with a tailwind. Worst I’ve gotten was about 39.9 flatfooting at an indicated 80 MPH.
Too small unfortunately. My in-laws have a Forester and there is a mutiny when I try to put the kids in the back of that…
I did see a Passat 3.6 VR6 with 20k miles for $20k at a Lexus dealer today. Loaded up. Will show pics to the wife later. We had a Touareg TDI and liked it, not sure if I want to spend the money for a TDI Passat but they are nice. If they built that jacked up Passat concept with the cladding and the AWD I’d be all over it, especially with diesel power. VW – Come on, just give the people what they want already.
I like the concept of the CMax, but I’m worried about keeping up with traffic in the mountains. I think I hurt the rental minivan driving it over the mountains Saturday, it seems to be less smooth and a lot louder now than it was when I got it…Glad I don’t own it.
A Koenigsegg Agera R. Duh.
As usual, I like all of these – a lot! The only one I’m not crazy about is the RAM… but that’s mostly based on having driven a ~2003 model regularly at an old job. We also had GMT800 pickups and the “bigness” of the Dodge felt stupid in comparison. It seemed like a whole step up to a different size of vehicle from a Silverado with very little (if any) added utility. That could be totally irrelevant now, of course. Not a huge fan of the styling either, but it depends on the trim.
I don’t think the S8 would come off as too fancy. I see plenty of them around and they’re really pretty stealth. To someone who knows what it is, spotting the V10 badge is a “oh, cool” moment; to the rest of the world it’s just another Audi. That would be my first choice… been a huge fan since the first generation. I think the A7 is a real knockout too, but I suppose it might not have the greatest back seat due to the styling.
I was on Chevy’s website pricing a Volt last week, too – just out of curiosity more than anything. The rapidly falling gas prices made me nervous that cars like this might be going away (although I don’t actually think that will happen) and I figured it might be cool to experience one while I’ve got the chance, especially since there’s a decent selection to choose from at the moment. Checking in with Honda revealed that they’re running a special on leftover 2014 Accord Plug-Ins at the moment – $249/month lease, which is a crazy good deal considering the MSRP on the sticker is close to $50k (!) I’m pretty sure Honda’s going to stop building them soon, so they might be willing to work out something similar through financing. The Fusion Energi wasn’t much more, either. Those are a big hit in the city here and pretty schnazzy in the higher trims. Even more appealing to me was the 1.6l EcoBoost/6-speed manual – because that’s a type of car that’s definitely going away soon (sedans with manual transmissions). It took me awhile to warm up to it, but I’ve fallen hard for the catfish face styling. Unfortunately, the rear seat is the same as the MKZ, so that’s almost definitely a no-go for you.
Love the Jag X-Type wagon, but even with your good experiences, I’d still be scared. Of course, if you can find them, they’re ridiculously cheap. Speaking of those depreciation monsters, have used examples of the current XJ model checked in under $30k yet? I only really started noticing them in the last year or so and think they look incredible. Pictures don’t do it justice at all, which seems to happen often with newer cars.
How about the Volvo S80? I thought the earlier ones were amongst the best looking cars of their time, although that might be a little too old (early ’00s). The second generation (or was it just a refresh?) model is probably even a better car, but I don’t find it as attractive. I like the wagons too, and I really wanted an S60R for the longest time, before I chickened out based on a handful of horror stories. If you can find one, the Epsilon Saab 9-5 is, IMO, also a gorgeous car and most of them have the V6 turbo/AWD. That said, are we already at the point where some people might look at you funny for driving a Saab? Is driving one now like driving a Peugeot in the late ’90s? Normally I’d consider that a good thing, but given the line of work you’re in, maybe not.
Sorry to hear about the Subaru, but glad to hear you guys are OK! I didn’t think it was that bad until I saw the picture of the F-150… sheesh. Scary stuff!
C-Max does fine, loaded up with gear and 200 pds worth of dog,and 3 people in it. Only issue is, even with snow tires X-Ice Michelin, its not the *best* in snow.
I would stay away from Volkswagen unless you can get one in warranty, or that you have all the maintenance records of.
Realistically, what is your budget, and do you have MPG requirements?
Just what Jim needs, more advice.
Another candidate fell out of my brain tonight: Toyota Venza. 189″ long, so fits in the garage. 8″ of ground clearance for when mother nature blesses you with a little extra. Middle XLE trim, AWD and V6 will set you back $35K+ Currently offering $2K rebate, *or* 0% apr for up to 60 months.
I tried out a Venza at the auto show a few years ago. If I recall correctly, I found the console a bit big and visibility to the rear quarters not so hot.
Just happen to have the Consumer Reports notes on the Venza handy
-good points: acceleration, powertrain, access, rear seat, cabin storage.
-bad points: lackluster handling, ride, rear visibility
I’ve often wondered about those Venzas. Being LHD only, we don’t get ’em, so I’ve only seen them on the web. But they’re mighty handsome (and this from someone who’s not a fan of modern Toyota styling), hence why I’ve always wondered if there’s substance to back the style. Can you buy one and let me know Jim? 😉
… I’ve always wondered if there’s substance to back the style.
Toyota barely advertises them here. I used to see a snarky ad aimed at we boomer generation geezers, but it’s been gone for years. I looked at the Venza at the auto show a couple times, but just wasn’t feeling it. Got a Ford Taurus-X instead, which was really nice…until the bearing knock, sticking struts, and failing steering rack all kicked in by 40,000 miles.
Go with the Lexus LS, my 2005 LS 430 bought at 35000 miles now at 95000 has not had a single failure except warped front rotors ( my fault,) set cost $250 with pads. EZ install. Timing belt/water pump cost $600 at dealer. Free washes, get LS loaner every time, free inspection with $20 oil changes, I supply Costco Mobil 1. Does eat tires with the sports suspension, though. Potenzas Pole Positions doing better than previous Michelin Pilots at half the price. My 1999 SC 300 has never failed either, did timing belt my self. Videos on YouTube made it simple, sure beats Haynes.
My cousin’s 2011 Audi A8 has been in the shop over a dozen times. Has 40k miles.
I have had three Subarus and will buy a fourth when we get back to America next year. I’d go with another Outback, especially given its performance in your accident. I’m kind of a fan at this point. But the other thing that I saw when I read through the comments was the Cadillac SRX idea. Still, go with the Outback, or if you need a change, the Accord with a set of snow tires in the garage, but I wouldn’t think that the 300 is a bad choice, either. A Charger in a suit, what a great idea. Skip the European cars.
Buy my 2013 Buick Regal GS. 6000 Miles on the odometer, 1 owner, fully loaded and I accept the sad depreciation curve.
25k and its yours.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?ownerId=69547775&searchRadius=0&listingId=388004349
Pick whatever of these cars suits you best. Guess if it were up to me I’d probably decide on the new Lexus LS460, but then that may be a little biased as I just bought an ’02 Lexus and really like how they ride and handle. Got to admit, though, I didn’t mind the red wood tones on the interior.
A replacement Outback seems like it would make the most sense, so I’d personally go for that. Otherwise, it’s tough to go wrong with a Honda or Toyota product, so my next vote would be for the LS, then the Accord. Beyond those “safe” choices, I do like the looks of the 300, but I just don’t know yet how reliable the newer (2011-up) Chrysler products are.
So I am wondering if you are getting closer to deciding on a replacement?
Well in my case my bias is revealed, as I did get a 2014 300C, loaded with all the goodies. Loving that beast to this day. That Subaru of yours took quite a punch in the kisser, glad you came out of it in one piece. You have quite an eclectic taste in vehicles, from Volvo to Honda and Audi, so I’m eagerly anticipating finding out your next COAL subject.
I came late to this thread, but very glad to know you made it through the accident all right. Kudos to Subaru for their crash protection. As for your replacement possibilities, the V10 S8 is appealing just for sheer Wow value, though all your choices are good ones.
It’s a little tight, but the Kia Niro hybrid CUV has gotten good reviews with the mid-level trim being the best value.
If you’re going to spend the money for a top-trim RAV4 XLE, might as well go for the hybrid. With the same equipment, the RAV4 hybrid works out to only being around $800 more than the non-hybrid version. That’s a bargain.
Those would be my top choices.