One of the most recurring issues with pretty much all of us at CC is our tendency to…ah…live in the past. Well, that’s largely why we’re here, right? And our memories of how our cars performed, ran, handled and otherwise did their job were created in the context of their times. We most of all remember the specific qualities of our cars that stood out relatively at the time, like a jet-smooth smooth ride, a super powerful high-revving engine, superb handling, infallible reliability, etc., that gave our favored cars real or perceived superiority then. But do we tend to transpose those qualities on them today, even in relative terms? There’s nothing like getting into an older car now, for a reality check, like my recent drives in the ’63 Galaxie or the ’67 Corvette to put things in perspective. I’ll be writing up my drive in the ‘Vette in more detail soon. Here’s an example from one of our recent COALs:
I started thinking about this a couple of weeks ago, when rplaut wrote the following about his 280Z (and I sincerely hope he doesn’t mind me using his words as an example, but it so well illustrates what we undoubtedly all do here):
Thinking now about how the 1978 Z handled compared to my current 1999 NB Miata, I believe the Z was pure power and thrust with better straight line performance; the engine seemed un-endingly strong.
Well, the 280Z’s 2.8 L six’s 145 or 149 hp peaked at 5600 rpm. The NB Miata’s BP-4W 1.8 L four makes its 140 hp at 6500 rpm. There’s no doubt that the Miata’s engine is substantially higher revving. And there’s also no doubt that the Miata would run circles around (or straight lines from) the 280Z. The NB Miata’s average 0-60 time is 7.5 seconds; the significantly heavier 280Z’s is 9.3 seconds.
The point is that comparing cars from our memories to cars in the present is a very real challenge. Do we remember our favorite cars through rose colored glasses? It’s certainly something I struggle with. How about you?
No Rose Colored Glasses for one particular car I’ve owned. A ’69 VW Beetle which was the money pit from hell. We all pay our dues in life and this was my Waterloo.
From that point forward, I never entertained the idea of a VW when it came time to shop for a new car.
Any rose colored glasses I’ve worn were permanently taken off my nose during the time I owned my Porsche 924S. Now, that statement is not to be taken as disparaging regarding the car. I still consider it the best car I’ve ever owned, with a comfort and balance that suited me perfectly. And I still regret trading the car in, for a faster, sexier, but in the long run much less appealing Pontiac Solstice.
During the tenure of the 924S, I also owned an ’04 Mazda3 (automatic) and my current ’05 Scion xB. The Mazda was faster, handled essentially just as well, and was less maintenance intensive. The Scion wasn’t faster or quite a good handling, but I could go from the Porsche to the Scion without any feelings of disappointment in driveability. Considering the markets they sold to, that’s saying a lot for the little toaster.
No, they don’t build them like they used to, and anybody who says that with a straight face is delusional. They build them better. I knew that back in 1968 with my first car, a 1937 Buick Special. Clean, original, and well cared for, but it drove like a load compared to dad’s ’67 Camaro RS.
And don’t even start on “character”. Character comes with age. 25 years from now, our successors will be going on and on and on about the character of a Toyota Camry, in the same voice that we currently save for a ’65 Chevy Impala.
Well said, as usual, Skye. I always get a kick when somebody tells me their 30 year old beater is a better car than a modern vehicle. As a daily driver, I would for one much rather have a 2016 Honda Accord four cylinder than a 1979 Impala 5.7 litre. The Accord is roomier inside, rides better, handles better, is faster, is safer and uses half the fuel.
I absolutely look at many of my past cars with rose-colored glasses. I know this because I didn’t regret selling any of them at the time I sold them.
I love my rose coloured glasses, since fantasy is always a lot better than reality. This is one of the reasons I don’t have a really old car. Say, for example, I found a mint 1979 Impala with a 350 and F-41, a car my dad had when I as 15. That car was so exciting when dad and I went to the dealership to special order it, and I chose all the options. When I finally got to drive it, the experience was a real thrill.
Forty years later, am I going to have that same thrill? Well, of course, the answer is no, and I would be stuck with an old car that I don’t drive a whole lot, if ever.
That’s why I try to stay fit and do new things as often as I can. I still find new things very thrilling, in a way old things cannot compare.
I still love to look at and talk about old cars, which I see as a reflection of cultural history, a topic in which I am very interested, and not owning an old car allows me the time to train for scuba diving, which is still providing me with plenty of thrills.
Besides, some day I will have an antique car. I am only eight years away on my TL.
I think we recall our old cars within the context of their times. GM established their final North American based large RWD drive car template with the 1973 A body that morphed into the 1977 B and C body that lasted through 1996.
My good fortune was to drive many of those cars, equipped with some critical options, throughout their 23 year run. Compared to many cars on the road, they were competent, comfortable, sometimes fast, generally reliable, decent handling and good looking. Even an objective source like Consumer Reports generally liked these cars. BUT, this was entirely in the context of the times – when Japanese cars could be little tin-can death traps and some domestic cars would not start coming off the assembly line.
Recalling certain realities regarding short lived transmissions, AC repairs, rust, paint problems, oddball stuff falling apart, and small niggling repairs that were needed to keep those cars looking and performing well, modern cars are certainly leaps and bounds ahead of those old cars.
So, when I tell you that my 1976 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham was generally a joy to drive, the context was that is was loaded with virtually every option, the best balanced drivetrain (350/350THM) and was well maintained by the first owner and myself. It was a fairly rare experience (back THEN) for me to drive a car that I felt even equaled it for all around performance, let alone exceeded it.
Today, the performance of my 2012 Ford F-150 PICK-UP puts just about every aspect of that Cutlass to shame.
But, I’d bet I’d still like driving a well equipped ’76 Cutlass in good condition.
No rose coloured glasses here.
I don’t hear too many folks ever arguing old cars were ‘better’ cars than modern vehicles, other than possibly DIY repair ability and cost. Sort of a red herring.
I like older cars much better, but of course they are inferior in every objective performance metric.
Older cars however have style, history, and character, and no character doesn’t just come from age. I *like* the way they drive.
I strongly believe the 1960s was the high water mark for automotive character, where improved technology dovetailed with great liberty in automotive design.
The 1950s, 1970s, and 1980s were strong supporting decades.
Modern cars however are very professional affairs, and government regulations and wind tunnel issues greatly limit design freedoms (not saying this is a bad thing, just does not lend to character).
For the record, I wasn’t alive in the 1960s.
In short, for me personally, yes modern/new cars absolutely for functional use and moving the family about, but my decision making is 90% rational in my choices. It’s the old stuff that puts that rationality ratio in reverse.
I recall 1960’s cars very well and the daily experience was not so great. “Tune ups” were twice a year, and if you didn’t, the car would run like crap. Said tune ups were not cheap. Then there was the losing battle of rust. I can recall all manner of rust voodoo, none of which worked. The fact was, in 99% of Canada, your shiny new Beaumont was going to be a rust bucket in five years-or less.
How well did Ziebart work? From my understanding it was at least somewhat effective. Cars did rust in Saskatchewan, although more slowly. It took eleven years for our ’66 Mustang to develop the usual rust holes at the bottom of the fenders ahead of the door. In the east, they were like that after four.
I firmly believe increased the salt content in the later 70s, my ’76 Omega (Nova) was getting flaky in the rear wheel openings at 5 years of age.
My ’81 X-body Skylark, POS it was, never rusted in the 5 years I had it, and that includes 2 Michigan winters going to school. I have always diligently washed, waxed and detailed all my cars, even to this day. My uncle was life-long Ontarian who swore by annual under-oilings.
Ziebart didn’t work well and many said it increased rusting in some cases as it held moisture against the cars undercarriage. In Ontario most swear by oil spray and so do I. We started out with rust check then switched to Krown in my family. I have heard good things about corrosion free too and I have been using it for spot touch ups on my trucks undercarriage with great success. Oil spray and diligent washing and waxing kept my dad’s old ’76 Malibu rust free after many Ontario winters. It’s still on the road today and has all original sheet metal and is rust free.
I’ve gone to Chicago area junkyards for over 10 years looking for Tbird and Cougar parts to keep mine healthy and pretty, and one of the things I have noticed is those cars with Ziebart plugs in the door jambs are the most rusted examples I’ve seen by a pretty large margin. The MN12 was relatively rust prone to begin with but it generally localizes itself to a few key areas on them like the ends of the rockers, the rear shock towers, or the front aprons, but the Ziebart cars always seem to have entire panels like the rockers or inner fenderwells eaten completely away.
I have to second Bill with the oil spray. It’s probably not the most green solution for rust prevention but it is far more effective than anything else I tried. Well aside from buying a car less than 10 years old, but that’s no fun.
+1. I like the way old cars run, ride, and drive. Not to mention smell and look. Unless I have to drive to everything all the time, the modern day metrics don’t really matter to me.
Again I equate it to buying an old house. Sure, the place doesn’t heat as well, probably needs a new roof etc etc but it’s got things new subdivisions just don’t have.
“Older cars however have style, history, and character, and no character doesn’t just come from age. I *like* the way they drive.”
+2, well said.
As far as tune-ups, I never had issues with tune-ups as I did them myself. Adjusting timing, points, plugs, choke etc… isn’t every hard to do and not overly time consuming and the parts are cheap. I do agree with Canucknucklehead that the rust is something I don’t miss battling. That to me was by FAR the worst part about old daily drivers. Since my old vehicles don’t see inclement weather it’s no longer an issue.
+1 Rust is the only real anxiety I have with older cars, not safety, not reliability, not mechanical repairs. I’m mechanically inclined, in fact I’d rather spend my free time tinkering with some mechanical object than I would be entertained by some form of media. I like Electronic Fuel injection and ignition primarily because it burns fuel cleaner and more efficiently, but I really wish there was something for me to periodically tinker with and adjust.
I certainly am well aware of how much improved modern cars over the vintage cars we all love. While I will readily admit that my modern daily drivers are better in almost every way over vintage cars, that doesn’t dilute owning or driving an old car. Someone else said it well, that old cars are a much more visceral experiences. You feel more at one with the machine because quite frankly old cars just don’t do as good of a job of isolating you from their mechanical parts.
I also think that mechanical tuning/upkeep is another enjoyable aspect of old cars. I love to tinker and tune ignitions and carbs, and have never found any of my old vehicles overly maintenance intensive. Yes, they require much more upkeep than a modern car, but tune-ups are simple and cheap and not overly time consuming. I also really enjoy just the general upkeep, from detailing the car, to minor mechanical repairs, to doing some minor modifications to improve the overall driving experience. This is all part of owning a vintage car and for me it’s what makes it fun.
I have a brand new car in my garage and a 44 year old machine sitting next to it. Although the brand new car is much better as a daily driver and far better on fuel, I can tell you that driving it is about as exciting as watching paint dry. It does everything so well, that it’s boring. While driving my old car is awesome, I love every minute of it and it just puts a smile on my face. Part of the enjoyment is it’s lack of perfection, it’s how much different it drives from a modern car, it is that V8 torque and the sound of the secondary’s on the 4-bbl carb. It’s certainly not better, but it really is great fun and I get far more enjoyment.
Agree. I enjoyed learning how to do the simple repairs that are still possible on my old cars. Even simple stuff like spark plugs or headlights, or more complicated things like tuning the carb, give you a sense of accomplishment. Also, makes you feel less at the mercy of mechanics. With the new car, you have no idea where anything is under the hood or what it does. They can just tell you anything and you pretty much have to take their word for it or bring it somewhere else…where you still won’t know for sure. And new cars do break down less so in theory that won’t come up often…but generalizations are just that. I happen to prefer more frequent minor issues than occasional but highly expensive problems beyond my ken…I occasionally defend leasing companies in litigation about this stuff…it does happen.
And everything you’re saying here for antique cars goes double for antique motorcycles.
At least in a 50 year old car you sit down and, assuming you know how to drive a manual, you take a minute to look over the controls, figure out what’s where, maybe get a quick instruction regarding the carburetor and the cold engine, and you drive off.
Go back to a 50 year old motorcycle. First off, odds are there’s no electric start and you have to kick it. After priming the carburetors and freeing up the clutch. And then making sure the hand and foot controls are in the same places as a modern bike. And I’ll still bet even money it takes more than a couple kicks to get it to start.
Antique tractors as well. I used my 2010 New Holland Boomer 8N to bale yesterday. Diesel, CVT, live PTO, etc. It’s a nice tractor. Then I used my 1950 Ford 8N to pull the hay rack around the field to collect the bales. 6 volt, gas, updraft carb, “dead” PTO. It’s actually still my favorite to run! Part of that is the memories that go with it, going back to the ’52 8N that my Dad had on which I spent many an hour mowing, plowing, etc. in my early teens.
I certainly do miss some cars from the past. My father’s 62 Comet seemed like a great car as a kid sitting in the back seat. At age 16 it was enjoyable to drive as A to B transportation. Absolute the Comet would not be enjoyable to drive today with no power steering, brakes and the 3 spd on the tree.
At the time I had my 71 Ford Custom and the 75 Custom 500 they were ideal transportation living in a rural area. But much too big today as I was reminded with the Grand Marquis I drove from 2014-15.
Many former vehicles were very reliable and well put together. But I’m getting older and less inclined to shift gears while driving in the city. Still, the rusty 02 Protege I bought for $900 last year is a hoot to drive. Doesn’t burn any oil and recently achieved 36 mpg. If it survives the winter, I may even drive it to the Seattle area. Its that comfortable too.
Cars have certainly reached a zenith and almost all are very good in many ways. But I still want to have a visceral reminder of driving in my youth. That’s why I’m still hanging on to my Mustang convertible. And its not perfect, nor does it have to be for me to enjoy it.
Mentioned a few times before, but it seems like the way some memorialize, its as if “everyone drove a Muscle Car in the 60’s”. All over the place were RWD, 400 HP V8 coupes”
😉
But now, there are 40-something auto writers longing for the 90’s, missing the Asian sport coupes, and “light weight” Sentra SE-R. Everything is generational.
I don’t think it’s just cars we look back at with rose tinted glasses, it’s times past in general. Times that people look back on as being the good old days many times had a lot of bad things going on.
As far as the cars, some of us do genuinely enjoy driving the technology of days gone by. If that weren’t so,there wouldn’t be people like myself who love cars built before my parents were even born.
I have a modern car as well. It makes me appreciate the honesty and simplicity of my aircooled Volkswagens. The aircooleds make me appreciate how smooth and quiet my GTI is, oh and that refrigerator cold a/c too.
Ok, ok. Maybe the old 67 442 didn’t handle all that well. And maybe it wasn’t all THAT fast. And, yes, it drank an AWFUL lot of 48 cent per gallon premium. But, OMG, the sounds it made as it turned the rear tires into a giant cloud of grey smoke… Rose colored glasses? Oh HELL yes!
Yep, time moves on, technology improves, standards change, consumer demands and expectations are altered, so I agree, today’s cars are better in many if not most ways. They don’t look as good as anything from the 60’s but of course there were no bumper laws, etc, impeding designers then. The legal conformity and increased desire by car companies to design by committee and consumer clinics has resulted in boring bland black, grey, silver and white blob-mobiles. More than ever, cars are un-distinguishable appliances. Yesterday, I mistook a new Ford Fusion for a new Chrysler 200. I’m sure they are each equally reliable and thoroughly capable vehicles in their own (yet similar) ways but they might as well be toasters. On the other hand, I expect my toaster to be reliable and to last a long time, so I get the desire for those same qualities to be available in our modern cars. It’s unfortunate that the sometimes crappy build quality of cars from the rose-coloured era negated all the swoopy styling and what engineering innovations there were. When it was proven that cars from overseas could be built better and last longer, consumers made Accord and Camry household words. American car-makers took far to long to ‘get it’ and relinquished their market share, profitability and reputations. They’ve left us with a nostalgia that is tied to the memories those American cars from our younger days. Sadly, my American car memories are of a poor-build quality ’73 Chevelle and a slower-than molasses ’74 Pinto. I miss the V8 smoothness and versatility of the Chevelle’s wagon bodystyle and nothing about the Pinto, so I’ve no nostalgia for a real car, only a sense and a desire to have been able to experience the 60’s from the driver’s seat instead of as a child passenger. In the end, would I opt for modern comfort and reliabilitly over great style and historic/nostalgic value? Yep. But if I can ever afford to, I have my list of top-ten fave American cars of the ’60’s close by and wouldn’t hesitate to add one or two of them to my garage of dreams.
I had a 66 Dart Gt, 273 V8, 4 speed. It got 17 mpg until I put in a 360 and it got 24 mpg (higher gears, same performance) I updated it with disc brakes in the early 80’s and was amazed at how well it stopped. I refurbished it 3 times and it needed it again, but I had finished my TC-3. The new car was faster, lighter, stopped better, and got 26 mpg. That old 360 worked well in that car also. The old 66 had its problems. Once in a while, it would die and not have any electricity available. I would have to jiggle a bunch of wires and it would start right up. I tried replacing the connectors, but it didn’t help. Wiring is the bane of all cars. It continues in the new cars. After a few years, the connectors and the insulation go bad and the cars end up being un-reliable.
Wait…you put a 360 in a TC3??