A CC commenter posed this question yesterday at the Camry COAL, and it made me realize that with one exception, my experiences with buying four new cars in the past 20 years or so has been very good. As in excellent even, in one case. But I know that’s hardly the norm. But in mulling over what was the key ingredient to a good experience, I’ve come up with one constant. And it is undoubtedly the key to a good dealership experience.
When I went to buy our 2000 Subaru Forester at the local dealer, my salesman was a guy roughly my age (late 40s at the time), and he clearly had worked there for some time. And he had the experience and intelligence to pick up that I just wanted to buy the advertised special for cash, skip all the other BS, and treat me like a sentient human being. The whole process was about as painless as buying something at the supermarket, and about an hour later we drove off. I’d say it happened because that dealer knew what kind of people (especially in Eugene) tended to buy Subarus: folks with higher than average education and income. Folks not willing to play stupid games. And it worked.
In 2005 or so, I helped my older son Ed buy his first new car, a Ford Focus. It was a colossal step backwards, and representative of how the typical American-brand mass-market dealer operated. Meaning: the sales person was a green young kid, who had no real authority (or knowledge). He was nice enough, but his only job was to shepherd us to the Assistant Sales Manager to close the deal, and then his job was to force us into the F&I gauntlet.
That 20 minutes across the desk with the prototypical F&I guy was pure hell, as he tried one ridiculous high pressure tactic after another to sell Ed on various BS high-profit gimmicks, like rust proofing (in Oregon!), clear coats, financing, extended warranties, etc. I clearly told him that we didn’t want to hear any of that and just pay for the car and go. he claimed he was required by law to present these to us (total BS). I finally walked out of his office and let Ed sit through his spiels.
When I searched for a rare left-over 2013 Acura TSX wagon, I found one in Boise, Idaho. I wrote up that experience in detail here, but let me summarize it briefly. My salesman, whom I had negotiated this on the phone and via email, was again a middle-aged career car salesman, and a genuine car guy. I negotiated really hard, but he never took it personally. I took the bus to Boise and spent the night in a hotel downtown. he picked me up the next morning, took me out to a great breakfast, and then helped me get on the road for the 500 mile trip back within an hour or so. Terrific guy, and a great dealership.
My most recent experience buying the Ram Promaster van was also out of state, but a bit different, since I was buying from a mega-dealer located in the tiny town of Kellogg, ID. Although thta dealer employed literally hundreds of salespeople, I could tell from meeting him and some of the others that these folks were all long-term employees, supporting families, and committed to providing a very satisfactory buying experience.
OK;my three experiences do not make a representative picture. But a recent article in autonews.com makes it clear what is a key problem in the industry: insanely high turnover in staff, most of all in sales, where it’s 67% annually! Which means dealers are constantly hiring completely inexperienced sales staff that typically come from other retail/hospitality businesses and have no real interest or affinity to the product they’re now trying to sell.
The survey referred to in the article shows that out of 800 prospective job seekers, only 5% would consider working in a dealership. And only one quarter of those would consider working in a sales capacity. That’s like barely over 1%.
The same survey, of existing dealer employees, showed that over a quarter of all dealer employees are going to be looking for a new job within 6 months. The reasons given are low pay, poor work culture, long hours, and bad management. The same reasons that undoubtedly many employees would give nowadays in many areas of retail and other industries.
It’s quite clear that the connection between employees who are in it for the long haul, and can earn a proper living wage doing it, is the key differentiator. Of course that comes from the top, which defines the culture, ethics, compensation structure and all the other aspects that define the workplace experience.
It’s not just dealers either; wherever I interact with companies/stores, the difference between dealing with an experienced staffer compared to an inexperienced one is huge. And I make a point to seek out those companies that foster that kind of setting. But it seems to be getting harder and harder.
There’s no reason a dealership experience can’t be good, or even excellent. But like everything else in life, it depends on the values and follow through of the other person/company one is dealing with. It seems like there is a growing polarization of these qualities, just like with everything else. Some folks “get it”; other don’t.
In autonews.com, I also read about a four-generation dealership in New Hampshire that ditched all of the “dog and pony show” approach, with a “lowest price, no-haggle” policy. They treat their customers (and employees) like real humans, and the results are predictable: They have an extremely loyal customer base, as well as equally loyal employees. Their profit margin is about 50% of the industry standard, but their commitment to fostering a workplace that provides for family-wage jobs, security and satisfaction is more important to the owner (shown above), than maximizing profits.
Once upon a time, business owners felt that way about their customers and employees much more commonly, although of course the auto dealer industry was always something of an outlier in regards to its selling approach. But as the internet changes the industry, there will undoubtedly be a place for those dealers that treat their customers and employees like genuine humans. My experience seems to bear that out.
Buying a 2000 Honda Odyssey was, well, an odyssey. That was when the Odyssey was the hot new minivan and demand far exceeded supply. Most of the Honda dealers we contacted here in Southern California said that we would need to place a big down payment up front, wait for a car, and if we didn’t want the car (no choice on color or features), we would give up the down payment. Oh, and they would mark up the van anywhere from $6k to $10k. Tough if you didn’t like it. Test drive? Are you kidding?
Tipton Honda in El Cajon was the only honest player in the whole deal. They said they would put us on a list, and call us when our name was up. We could take the van, or wait for the next one, or the one after that, until we got what we wanted. MSRP with no markups. No upsells when we bought.
Later, when the transmission blew up (they all did that) and we were out of warranty, they got us an exchange rebuild for either the part, or the labor (can’t remember which), so basically half price. It went another 100k+ miles on that rebuild.
I’m quite surprised to see a rhetorical question I asked two days ago has become the root of such an active discussion. Thank you, Paul N for an excellent article on a very interesting subject.
I’ve bought about 50 vehicles so far. I’ve found commercial and fleet purchases to be good experiences and retail sales for personal vehicles mostly to be catastrophically poor.
Commercial sales is remarkably free of the multitude of sleazy tactics and poor attitudes that plague retail sales.
The businessman in me finds it so frustrating to see retail auto sales handled so poorly. From reading this thread, their failure rate is, perhaps 50%, where not only is there no sale, but the customer walks away with a negative impression and an unpleasant experience. This suggests the conventional auto sales business model is an abject failure. How long would Target or Whole Foods last if 50% of their customers walked away with similar poor experiences?
American (and Canadian) business tends to operate successful retail businesses well, because they have a customer – service oriented approach. Customer loyalty and a positive impression mean something.
The traditional auto sales model cares little for such impressions. The commission system means the customer is little more than a wallet, to be opened and emptied through psychological manipulation. Most commercial truck buyers would not tolerate such tactics.
I used to work for a Pontiac/Buick dealer. I work in the contracting field now, but many of my staff used to work in retail auto sales. The systemic approaches I have seen used widely to get as much money as possible for a vehicle is offensive to me as a businessman, and infuriating as a consumer.
And when I’ve tried to buy cars, even when I know what they’re going to do, I can’t get them to stop. They still try the same tricks on me, even when I TELL then to stop because I KNOW what they’re doing and explain WHY it won’t work on me. I’ve even gotten sheepish grins from them when I correctly identify the approaches they are doing and critique them. “You know, you’re “Standing Room Only” thing isn’t working because I just counted 53 Chargers sitting on your back lot just now””
I still buy commercial vehicles through dealers but don’t do so for my personal cars anymore simply because I cannot get a fair shake. I buy used cars through private sales. For me, its much better.
” I’ve even gotten sheepish grins from them”
You mean like this?
One of my all-time favorite movies.
Never. Except the one time in 1988 I traded in my ’81 Skylark with a shot Iron Duke for a used Jetta at an Acura dealer. Revenge. Saw it out back a couple weeks later with engine out, hee hee!
Yes. Longo Lexus in 1999, I found a certified 1997 lx450 (Landcruiser) on their lot with 44,000 miles but looked and smelled brand new. I told the salesman I didn’t want to play any games, just to give me their best price and I was just going to say yes or no. He gave me a reasonable price, I said yes, was out of there with the truck in an hour ( I had my own financing.) Then at the end of 2003 when the RX400H was announced, I put myself on the waiting list. 18 months later, when the first ones started rolling off the ships and most of the other dealers were marking them up, I got mine at sticker and again, was out of there in an hour.
We’ve serviced the RX at Longo for most of its life–we still have it– and were hoping to give it to the kids when they start driving.
i dont get that US dealers get away with charging a ” Mark Up” on car invoice prices. In the UK dealers start at the RSP and discount. Mark up is for rich sort that want to jump waiting lists for the latest super cars.
I think you’re mixing up terms. “Invoice” is what the dealer paid for it. “MSRP” is the manufacturer’s recommended sales price”. The difference between the two is what is negotiable.
A mark up above MSRP is strictly a matter of supply and demand, and usually only doable when demand substantially exceeds supply. Some dealers won’t do mark-ups; others will. There’s no regulation of what the actual selling price of a vehicle will be; that’s the whole point.
Buy a car that’s not in demand, and you may well get a huge discount; buy one that is in great demand and one may have to pay a markup unless one shops around.
With the internet, mark ups are probably becoming rarer and rarer. In fact, hardly anyone pays MSRP anymore.
I had the best car buying experience of my life about a year ago at Roe Motors in Grants Pass, OR. Saw a vehicle on line, called and got a full description and CARFAX. Placed a deposit, flew to Oregon where the sales person (Aramis Taylor) met me at the airport, drove me to the dealership, and completed the whole transaction in a few minutes. Vehicle had been completely serviced, including good quality new tires, and I drove back to California that day. I would go there again in a heartbeat.
I personally have only dealt with two dealers. The 80 Civic my father had a leasing connection so that doesn’t cunt. My 86 626 was next up and I knew exactly what I wanted. Didn’t need a test drive just buy the car. First dealer I happened by in San Jose wanted 11K for a car that I knew should be $9600. His comment was that if a dealer wanted to prostitute himself that that was his choice. I still remember that description.
The next Mazda sealer I walked into I told what I wanted, what I would pay and showed my map of where all the Mazda dealers were and they were numbered. He was closest and so #1 but I would move on. It was no nonsense, he brought out exactly what I wanted, I declined a drive, signed the papers and paid what I wanted.
Next up my 2004 Ford Focus. The salesman was a young kid who I also told what I wanted. There were his attempts to steer me to another Focus but I said no thanks. There was also a $2500 rebate. Finally he gave in and I had to wait an hour as the car and color I wanted had to be driven over from Berkeley to Walnut Creek.
That was my last attempt although my last purchase four weeks ago, an extremely low mileage 2004 LeSabre, was from my father. That was a very straight forward buy. I even gave him cash, which surprised him, as he said check would have been fine.
Our last new vehicle, a Toyota Sienna, was purchased through a Costco program. We were given a name and number to call, told the salesman exactly what we wanted and were told it would be a couple of weeks before the next shipment would come in with something very similar to what we requested. We were also given a purchase price which was very reasonable. One week later we got a call saying our van had arrived. We had given nothing in the way of a down payment or earnest money by the way. We drove to Tucson and met with the salesman who did nothing but program and internet sales. I have to say, I’m surprised the guy didn’t throw his back out while bending over backwards to make sure we were happy. At one point I told him the sale has been made, relax and get the paperwork. Thirty minutes later we drove off the lot with our new van. And the price was almost exactly what we were quoted. I just wish all Dealerships were this accommodating.
I’ll start by saying I grew up with car dealers being family friends. My dad knew the Volpato brothers (Angelo and Medardo) before they had a dealership. They became the Chrysler Plymouth dealership (M Volpato, Inc.) in the 1920’s. My dad often made the road trip to San Francisco to pick up new vehicles with the brothers, he enjoyed driving them back. Medardo was killed while the sheriff was taking a demonstration drive in 1933, rolling the car. The dealership became A Volpato Inc. One of dads cars in 1933 was a 1931 Imperial LeBaron dual cowl phaeton he kept until 1937, when he bought 2 1937 Plymouth Coupes, one for town, the other for the highway. Within a short time, hopped up Chrysler engines were under the Plymouths hoods. Those served through the war years. Our house/property was here over a hundred years, the surrounding area was orchard. The Volpatos built and moved in just down the street. (after more houses came between, the third house down). Dad was also friends with the Gearharts, the DeSoto-Plymouth dealer, they also moved in down the street. My sister was born in 1938, Memorial day, (Dad was born at midnight, New Year’s eve) Dad became a foreman for Diamond Match in the 30’s, In 1948 he learned mom was pregnant again, (I would have had an older brother, but it was a stillbirth) He waited until I was actually born (June 14, 1948, Flag day) to buy a new ’48 Plymouth DeLuxe sedan for the growing family, from Volpato’s. In 1950 he decided to buy a new New Yorker sedan. Going to Volpato’s on a Sunday, none of the Volpato family were at the dealership. Every sales person (and most others at the dealership) were family members and relatives, except the young man that day. Dad went to the dealership i n casual clothes, he knew everyone. He wanted to look at the blue New Yorker in the show room. The young man refused, saying he might be interested in an older Lincoln sedan from the used car lot, since dad obviously could not afford the new car. In fact Dad had $5000 in cash in his pocket to buy with. After being insulted by the salesman, dad got in the Plymouth and drove the two blocks to the DeSoto dealer. Mr. Gearhart was not there, but dad knew Mr. Wong (and everyone else there) and a short time later had a blue top line DeSoto sedan, with a lit Hernando DeSoto on the hood. Dad wasn’t satisfied with the 6 in the DeSoto, and before long the car was equipped with an entire 8 cylinder New Yorker drive train. (and people wonder why I started modifying my cars) Dad still had one of the ’37 Plymouths, kept as a hunting car. During the time the DeSoto was being modified, Angelo let dad drive a ’49 Cosmopolitan fastback sedan from the lot. When he learned dad had tried to buy the Chrysler and was turned away, he fired the salesman and when dad told him he would like to equip the DeSoto as a New Yorker, Angelo gave dad a very good deal on the transformation. It wasn’t just the loss of the sale to Dad, Ours was a strong Mopar family, a large one. After Dad bought the DeSoto, eight aunts and uncles bought DeSotos from Gerhart instead of Chryslers and Plymouths from Volpatos, and they weren’t going to have Volpatos service them either. I had good memories of the ’50 DeSoto, on vacation cruising at close to 100 mph in the slightly breathed on strait eight. Dad also bought a Studebaker pickup in 1953, and built a new garage for them. Dad test drove 1954, and ’55 DeSotos and Chryslers when the Forward Look started sweeping the country. When Gerhart let dad see what the ’56 looked like, dad loved it, and told Gerhart, “That’s beautiful, this is the year I’ll be buying if it drives as good as it looks.” Gerhart told dad ” I guarantee it will drive good, hell, I’ll have it built just for you.” But dad didn’t hear that, he was looking at the ’56 Chrysler product photos. Dad drew the money out of the bank on Friday. Saturday morning, Mom, dad and I went to Volpato’s, to look at Imperials. two in the showroom, A black coupe, and a gorgeous 4 door hardtop in pale blue, with everything. There were a couple of New Yorkers, and a couple of Plymouths there also. (BTW< it was now A Volpato Inc., Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial) Mom and I knew all the people at both dealerships, and the young guy that came into the showroom wasn't familiar. Dad and I were in Levi's and sport shirts, mom was in a nice sundress. Apparently we looked like hillbillies to the guy, dad wanted to drive an Imperial. The guy flatly refused, suggested maybe a Plymouth Plaza. Dad loved the Imperial, but was pissed, he told the guy to call Angelo, he refused, then dad told the guy he was going to Gearharts to buy a DeSoto. The ass said, "Go ahead" Dad pulled $7000 out of his pocket and counted it, as the young guys mouth hung open, He started to stammer something, but dad told him "Too late" Minutes later we were at Gerharts. There was also a young unknown there on duty, but he welcomed us, offered soft drinks, Dad told him he was going to buy a car, asked if Gerhart was there. This guy asked if we could wait a short time while looking at cars, he would call Mr. Gerhart. He had been home, but minutes later, he pulled in driving a new Fireflite convertible. In the showroom, were a burgandy and black Fireflite convertible with white top, a red and white Fireflite Sportsman 2 door, and a pink and white Firedome 4 door hardtop. I wanted the convertible, mom wanted the red hardtop, and dad was looking at the 4 door, but wanted Fireflite, and a sedan, not a hardtop. I was looking at the huge model car display case with models of Fireflite sedans and Belvedere sedans in most colors available. Mr Gerhart came in "Bob (dads name), you're here too soon, your car hasn'r been cleaned up yet." "My car?",Gerhart reminded dad about their conversation. As matter of fact, it had not been unloaded from the carrier yet. By then the sun was setting, outside lights kicked on as Gerhart led us to the parked car carrier, now in deep shadow. The black and white Fireflite sedan sat on the carrier, minus wheelcovers, and dusty looking. Dad wanted to do the deal. Gerhart hesitated and said "Whatever you want , Bob." Dad also mentioned wanting to drive it home. Gerhart told the salesman to call the carrier driver. He unloaded the car as he deal was finished. Mr. Gearhart took me over to the model display. "Go ahead and pick whatever Fireflite model you want, what the heck, pick a Plymouth model as well. I was seven. There were no black and white, I picked the white with pink Fireflite, and pink with white Plymouth sedan 1/25th scale models from JoHan. When dad opened the driver's door after completing the deal did a sharp intake of breath and a soft "Whoe!" inside was a black and white dash and steering wheel, but 5 shades of pink to mauve covered the rest of it. The driver had checked fluid levels, tire pressure, and enough fuel, we were to bring it back the next day for detail. On starting, there was a deep rumble from the dual exhaust, the engine had a cam, I could tell that at seven. It was a spaceship compared to the '50. Dad drove the few miles home, got out and opened the garage doors, which still had not had lights installed. He slowly pulled in, mom started screaming something at him, he stopped with only inches from being in the garage. The '56 is wider than the '50. Dad had popped every bit of the side trim from the passenger side. There wasn't a scratch on the paint, just the trim laying there. I knew we would never speak of this as long as dad lived. Next day when dad opened the garage another sharp intake of air. I looked around the corner into the garage. The DeSoto was not black and white, but Iredescent Charcoal gray and shell pink, My seven year old mind thought, "Cool" At that second, dad's brother Jim drove up in his DeSoto club coupe, he looked in the garage and said"God, Bob, that's a stunning color combination." The world was right again, and dad was proud of the Fireflite the rest of his life. At Gerharts, Gerhart was horrified when we pulled in without passenger side trim, he started apologizing to dad, dad took him aside and talked, Gerhart said the car had not been officially checked in. we waited as it was detailed, and wheelcovers and…er side trim was put on. It looked perfect It also started an avalanche of family car sales, 26 Plymouths, Dodges, DeSotos, Chryslers and Imperials joined the family.The last vehicle bought by dad was a new '59 International pickup in tuquoise and white.
Out of all the cars that passed through my own hands, I only had two new ones, and both were different experiences. In 1965 among my cars was a 1955 Austin-Healey 100 M. I'd had it 4 years and loved it. As I was driving, a '65 Dodge Polara patrol car turned on his red light behind me. I thought WHAT NOW, I pulled off the road on the gravel and blowing leaves shoulder, hitting the brakes hard, the Healey simply stopped. Glancing in the mirror was OH SHIT!!!! The big Polara was inches back, and still doing 40 mph, sliding on the slick surface. DUCK!!! I slid low in the bucket seat in time to hear the impact and see the Dodge chassis grinding over the top of the Healey. I got the door open and rolled out on the ground. The Dodge looked unhurt, the Healey was toast, mangled, I yelled NOOOOOOOO! as I saw it. The cop looked down at me and said "Damn" They replaced my '55 with a brand new '65 Healey 3000 with a back seat, roll up windows and a gorgeous silver blue paint job (with chrome wires and whitewalls. I hated it! The '55 was 25 mph faster, handled better, and was ME!. I slowly was getting used to the '65, everyone else loved it. Then I came out of Raley's one day. Sitting on top of the '65 was a 1958 Buick Century Riviera 4 door in Warwick blue with wide whitewalls, and immaculate with zero damage. Once again the Healey was toast. I know the particulars of the Buick because ten years later , I owned it with 13 other '58 Buicks. My insurance agent asked "Do you really want another one of those things?" The Healey was replaced with a mint '56 light aqua Continental Mark II with A/C, and a '57 Lincoln Premiere coupe in Taos turquoise and ivy green roof, near new with 35000 miles and A/C. I thought, Let see them run over that! So many cars have a/C here because summers are over 115 degrees.
The second new car I didn't expect. a close friend in the military had a problem, his wife died in an accident and he had twin boys that needed someone to take care of them, no relatives or others could be found. I was 18, but did it and it worked ok, they were good kids for 3 years. When he got out of the military he thanked me for taking care of them and wanted to pay me for it. he had inherited family money. He said he could have hired someone to watch them, but they knew me . I wouldn't let him pay because as far as I was concerned we were family. He treated me and the kids to Disneyland and every other attraction around LA, when we got back home there was a new '66 Cadillac deVille convertible, in light blue with white interior and top, and every accessory waiting for me. We had talked about liking the style, and accessories. He bought it for me. I did drive it some, but by then I had my Electra, eventually I gave it back and he drove it for years.
My experiences with local dealers was different from most people. I knew all the dealers here and in surrounding cities because I detailed or repaired cars for them. In those days they didn't want cars over five years old on the lot. All had so called "south 40" sections where they parked unwanted cars. I bought at least 5 cars per week (and that from one dealer) the most bought in a week was around 38 cars. I was in hog heaven. These were mostly less than 10 years old, top line cars, all priced between $15 and $50 dollars because they did not want them. A few very low miles excellent cars could go as high as $150. Many were faded and dirty, but I tried to beautify America with suddenly new looking cars on the road again. There were a few dealers I stayed away from because they were such asses to do business with. Some of the dealers were so good it was near unbelievable. The used car manager at Volpato's was a minister as well as car salesman, totally honest. He was married to one of the Volpato sister's. The whole family were great. One friend (I was 24 he was in his 70's, but very interesting , he worked in the arts, painting, sculpting, things I pursued also. He was not in great health and his '69 Chevelle died, he had very little money and needed wheels. I took him to Volpato's and told them the situation, asking which cheap car was known to be best for his needs. They had the normal cheap cars like I bought, I just wanted to make sure he got the best possible. Angie (one of the sons) said "Lets move him up to something nice." There was a 2 year old 75 Dodge Royal Monaco Brougham, very fully loaded, in nice shape. priced around $4500. He told them his absolute limit was $1100. Angie said"how about $600 for it." He bought it and drove it until his passing ten years later, I kept it detailed. It wasn't good business from a financial standpoint, but I had four generations of customers at my shop, and as the older ones went to fixed income, I and my shop kept detailing their cars once a year at no charge. I got a fair amount of cookies and baked goods as appreciation, and I appreciated those. I also got cars in appreciation. Most were cars that a father or grandfather had, but undriven for quite awhile, a '51 Kaiser Deluxe sedan, a '68 Monaco 500 coupe, a 78 Mark V coupe, cars that were in their way, but welcome to me. My '77 New Yorker Brougham was free with a bad trans. I traded with a transmission shop for years and it had a new trans the day after I got it. It was fully loaded with a 440 Interceptor engine. I drove it 18 years and 210,000 miles in comfort and amazingly good mileage since the trans shop put an AOverdrive trans in it. Most all detailed near new. I also have given away my own cars when someone needed it, and some I collected to restore that I realize I wont be able to. This last year I gave away a '58 Buick Caballero wagon, and a 1959 DeSoto Diplomat Adventurer convertible, 1 of 8 ever built, also gave away a '57 Diplomat convertible a few years back. they have a better chance of living and being restored. My son, Nathan has inherited the gene for car collecting, he's only 20 (just) and has had a 95 Caprice Detectives car, loaded with everything and a strong LT1 engine, in sapphire blue, a Mark VIII, perfect condition the same color, a Celica GT in black, a '67 Imperial crown Coupe in pale yellow with black roof band Owned for 20 years by mrs Volpato. a '53 Dodge pickup he restored, and currently a 2003 Mustang convert, fully equipped in bright yellow with white top, and a Accura Integra in silver smoke. Plus he will inherit most of my cars. A few more we need to restore before I kick off Volpato's is gone now, Angie was about 8 years my senior, but we were close friends, He collected Imperials from all years and had a rare Airflow Limousine. His wife was always pushing him to make more money. One day he was in Sacramento for a show and saw his high school sweetheart and divorced #1 and married and finally found complete happiness with the sweetheart for 31 years before his passing last year. The Chrysler dealer now is part of a huge multi make dealer that barely bothers with domestic cars. Miller Buick Olds was another great dealer and the family personal friends, they are gone now and Buick is at the same place Chrysler is.
I'm including pics of my '58 Century that ran over my '65 Healey before I had it. The '66 Century was my great uncle's ca fro when I had a dozen '55's
My property before I was born in 1938 with orchards around, notice they’re Chrysler products
Too bad I don’t know what you wrote as it was visually impossible to read.
Ditto. Without lots of paragraph breaks, reading continuous text on this format is essentially impossible.
Kaiser given to me, had 45 years of oxydation, detailed.
Free New Yorker during years of driving
$15 Plymouth convertible from dealer lot turning new again
after detailing
That’s a stunningly good looking rag top .
-Nate
1958 Cadillac I had that I need to put in 57-58 Cadillac section
@LRF: Wow! What a detailed write-up and a lifetime of cars/experiences! I read and enjoyed every line. You have some beautiful cars! In general, (IMO) customer service, and doing the “right” thing instead of the “$” thing are sadly appearing to fade away. I feel badly for the young people today who’ve never experienced true customer service, and and who will probably never experience it.
In early 1999, the lease of my 95 VW GTI VR6 was about to expire and VW had just announced the new mk IV GTI GLX. The local dealer on Long Island which we had just leased a new 99 mk IV Jetta for my then wife claimed that he didn’t know if the GTI was coming or not and when I told him that VW announced it on their website he stated ‘you can’t believe everything on the website’.
So I went about searching the internet and came across a dealer in Rhode Island that specialized in internet sales. I contacted them and the salesman told me that his first GT GLX would be coming later this week and would I want to get it. I told him that I was wary of this since I would be turning in my current GTI and he was making a deal sight unseen (this was my first lease and I was concerned that they would ‘find’ things wrong when I turned the car in). He assured me that it wasn’t the case and unless I wasn’t disclosing something major that I knew I was hiding, there would be nothing to worry about. So we negotiated a deal and went up to Rhode Island
Once I got there, the salesman said ‘I hope you don’t mind but since this was our first GTI we put it in the showroom’ and there it was. Not only was he true to his word about upholding the lease turn in, but he actually bought the old GTI since it was under mileage and I netted like $1,000 from that transaction. And there was NOTHING cooler than driving the new GTI out of the showroom.
Wait…there’s still more. So like two years later, my then wife wants to turn in her Jetta for a Passat so I again call this dealer in Rhode Island, negotiate a price and go up there. When we get there, I see this mk III GTI VR6 sitting outside the service area that looked like my old one that I had traded in. I looked closer and the ‘unique’ badging that the car had (side GTI badges on the side trim, red badges on the back where most GTIs had silver ones, on BBS center caps rather than VW ones) and yeah, this was definitely my old GTI! As it turns out, the service manager bought it after I had traded it in….the dealer actually posted a photo of me and my old GTI and posted on their website for a few years
Way back in ’95 I special ordered my very first new vehicle, a ’95 Ram 1500 Sport pickup. The dealership I ordered it from, Strongsville Dodge, was an absolute dream to deal with. No BS, no pressure, just a great experience.
I had a great experience recently buying from Carvana. Very helpful, easy setting up financing, delivery, etc. Would HIGHLY recommend.
Time-frame flexibility is key. If one is in no hurry to buy (able to wait 6 months, etc), it’s usually not hard to get a good deal, at least KBB/Edmunds competitive pricing or better.
The last time I bought a vehicle without pre-arrangement (either via 1-800 number or Internet/e-mail) was in 1989. All subsequent purchases (4 so far) were pre-arranged and hassle-free, with the cars delivered having single-digit odometer readings.
Varied experiences here. I have a used car dealer I have used for years. I even rented a house from him and his dad. I guess we have become friends over the years. If he has a car I want to check out, I call or go over and they write it out for me for a few days – usually over a weekend so I can drive the crap out of it and look under seats etc. Then we haggle a bit and sign the papers.
Fun: my buddy above didn’t have a CUV in my range so found one on internet. Used. Hour and a half away. Called and got a salesman that sounded like the stereotype. We agreed on a time the following Saturday morning, but I was told him I did not have to have a car and I meant it. Drove down and took the car out for a drive – had a fun time with the young man. Got back and went to the office. I told him we would NOT strike a deal til we were both cussing and mad. That way I would feel like we both gave a little. 2 hours later, we had a deal. A couple trips to the sales manager. I lowballed him and made him take it. And back and forth til we hit a number we both could live with. A fun experience til this point, but it was uncomfortable to my wife. She thought it was too stressful.
Then the Finance guy who was a real jerk didn’t want to get to our payment numbers. So we walked out and were in the car ready to leave – out comes the sales managerr and sales guy. Asked for 5 more minutes. So they did finally push it through. First time I ever felt like I got the deal I really wanted. even dealing with the first guy – those are always alright deals but he always takes care of me.
I have made signs for a bunch of independent dealers so they always treated me with respect, even if we didn’t make a deal on cars.
And the last deal – wife’s new Tucson. Found a deal on the net. Emailed the guy, got some replies and we went back and forth. Then he called and we talked some more aboout wife’s trade, etc. Struck a tentative deal. Went down after work. 6 pm. They tried to change it around some, but I made him stick to his original deal. I had a copy of his deal in the email. The sales manager was my original contact and he handed me off to a nice young guy. Not so stereotypical – was very respectful and treated us like people. Didn’t try to jerk us around so much.
Other deals over the years have been mostly poor. I tell the sales guys up front that I hate buying a car and that I drove on to the lot and can just as easily drive off the lot. It’s just a car and not the only car in the world to me. And that’s how I feel anymore. IF I miss the one I’m looking at now, there will be another next week.
For a laugh, google :
Johnson Automotive group, Grady the Badger
Some very entertaining television commercials that are apropos.
I have never had a HORRENDOUS experience at a dealership.
But I have very seldom bought a car from a dealership, either.
The 2008 HHR that I bought in May of this year was purchased from the local Chevrolet dealer here in Waterford, Michigan. The entire transaction was handled professionally and smoothly. I would consider purchasing a vehicle from them again.
For the most part I have had good dealership experiences, but a few not so good ones stand out. I had a sales manager hold on to my supposed trade-in keys while he talked it down to me. I walked out. I decided once that I wanted to find a dark green or black one year old Mustang V6 coupe. The salesman at the new car dealership insisted on trying to sell me a yellow GT convertible. To top it off, they test drove my 4 year old Dakota pickup that I was thinking about trading in. They must have been shopping it to used car dealers because they were gone for 20 minutes. They then offered me $1200.00 for it as it was high mileage. They aggravated me further because of their running it around town, I then had to put gas in it to drive the 50 miles home. Needless to say, I never went back.
I once shopped for a new company car for my wife with a dealer in another city. I found a car and told the sales manager that her company had a deal with GM for a discount on new cars. The arrogant ass of a sales manager said ” I will decide what they pay.” I went home and took her to the local dealer where she found the perfect car and no hassles about any discount. She also told her boss about my experience with the first dealer. Her company ended up buying 9 more cars from our local dealer. We later bought two cars from them ourselves.
After having a good dealership experience with my 2003 Mustang I ordered my 2009 Mustang in April 2008 as a 2008 model at the same dealer in Indianapolis which is 100 miles from where I live. A couple of weeks later, according to the dealer they shut down production for model changeover. Someone must have lost the order because my car didn’t come in until August. The sales manager said ” I will do anything to make you happy” while I was waiting all summer for my car. When we went in to take delivery and after we paid cash with no trade in, I asked for a free Mustang hat. He told me that he couldn’t do that! I will not be buying another car there. Since then I have become friends with the current owner of our local dealer.
When I order a new vehicle I already know exactly what I want and have encountered many salesmen who didn’t know their product very well. When I ordered my ’79 Malibu I had to educate several salesmen at different dealerships while shopping for a deal. With the exception of one guy, none of them knew you could get a factory four speed transmission even though the shifter is clearly shown in the brochure.
Oddly, my best new car buying experiences were at mega dealerships and the worst at the smaller ones. I bought two trucks from Longo Toyota and a T-bird for my dad at Galpin Ford, both in the Los Angeles market. F&I folks at these places are true professionals that dont waste your time or theirs. They work on volume rather than trying to extract the maximum profit from each sale.
So… I’ve been reading the comments here for days hoping that anyone would mention something near me.
I’m in the Chicagoland area and have had nothing but terrible experiences with dealerships all over town.
The Larry Roesch (Ford and Chevrolet) family of dealerships were terrible. Both vehicles purchased here had numerous problems fresh out of the showroom and warranty work was like pulling fingernails. Salespeople had zero knowledge of the product.
Sunrise Chevrolet – See above.
Elmhurst Toyota – None of the issues above but severely overpriced and employ a good amount of bait & switch tactics.
Continental Motors in Countryside was an awful experience as well.
I’m in the market for a new sedan and a new pickup in the next 6 months. I keep putting it off because driving my current vehicles > dealing with another scummy dealership.
Are there no good dealerships in the Chicago area?
I went to Schaumburg [IL] Toyota to see numbers on a 2016 Camry SE, and didn’t get high pressure tactics, like “hide the key” or “what can we do to get you to buy now?”. They had an internet price and stuck to it, and laid out #’s. Said I have to think about it and gave me their biz cards.
I’d recommend them and may get that car, but have to think more, 😉
I was out of town but will add my two cents. My last 2 new car buys went very smoothly. The 07 Fit (Bob Rohrman Honda on Indy’s south side) was a cash purchase and I got no pressure. It was a car in extremely short supply that involved a 4+ month wait on an order and there were no “dealer add-ons” to gouge more money out of me. They added some kind of body panel registration stickers (an aftermarket theft deterrent system) but the salesman immediately agreed that we had not agreed to that and did not charge us. I don’t even remember meeting an F&I guy.
The 12 Sedona (Butler Kia on Keystone Avenue before they moved to Fishers) was also relatively easy dealing with transparent pricing, other than an issue of getting our car from much farther away than we had been led to believe, adding maybe 300 miles to the “new” car after my Mrs. had made clear that she did not want a new car with a few hundred miles on it. They knocked off some more money and everything was good. The F&I was there but easy as we opted out of all the extras.
My late model used 94 Club Wagon (Jerry Alderman Ford Indianapolis) and the 85 GTI (Giganti VW) were much more typical “car dealer” transactions. But those deals were 20 and 30 years ago and at dealers no longer in business.