My post earlier today on the 1973 Plymouth Road Runner I dished some praise on the ability of the Chrysler slant six and 318 (5.2 liter) V8 to withstand all manner of abuse.
We all know some engines are a lot less hearty than others. But what engines are the heartiest, able to withstand all manner of unsavory treatment? It doesn’t matter if we are talking ability to run quite low on oil, run too hot for extended periods with no apparent damage, or those simply able to gleefully take whatever abuse is thrown at it.
My nominees are the Chrysler Slant Six and the 318. Yes, that’s two, but they are so close in abusive aptitude they could be tied.
So what engine do you nominate?
The Hudson 308CID six was supposed to have been pretty tough, with a high nickel content in the block, but was it resistant to abuse? It was before my time, so I’m asking, not telling.
It was before my time too, but I had an elderly neighbor who owned a taxi company in the 50’s and he ran Hudsons. He swore by them. He said that he could get 200,000 miles out of them before they’d need a rebuild. His saw extreme duty but they were maintained.
They would have had strong bodies and chassis also.
Another engine that I’ve had great experiences with, is the Ford 3.8 in my ’99 Mustang which is at about 223,000 kms right now. The 94-98’s are plagued with headgasket problems, but the 99-04’s are bulletproof. Aside from changing the occasional sensor (ie: DPFE, IAC, etc) and an overly aggressive PCV that creates some oily gunk in the runners that should be cleaned out and rectified with an air/ oil separator, the base engine will run forever.
When I put on performance heads a couple of years ago, I noticed that the cylinder walls still have a bit of factory crosshatch left, and I’ve beat on the engine with aggressive spark timing, and the tops of the pistons had no signs of detonation, either. There’s been a couple of times that it’s overheated to a borderline unsafe level (ie: rad cap failed so there wasn’t enough pressure) and it’s been fine…..no warpage or other problems. I daily drive it in the winter, too (sometimes in -40 weather), and usually don’t plug it in, and it’s started every time, no problem.
Hmmm, I’ve had 2 vehicles with indestructible engines. First was my 200ci powered ’79 Fairmont wagon that was pushing 200k miles. The guy I bought it from severely neglected the cooling system which gave her an appetite for freeze plugs. I fine day I was on my way home from Elyria, OH to Lakewood when it popped another plug. Well, I was in a foul mood at the time and I said to myself “F*** it” and just kept trucking on down I-90 til I got home. Poor engine was making all kinds of awful death noises as I chugged down the freeway and I pretty much figured the car’s next trip would be to the boneyard. As luck would have it the damn thing made it all the way home, roughly 20 miles from where the plug popped, without quitting. At least until I pulled into the driveway where it shuttered and stalled rather violently. Tried cranking it and she was locked up tighter than Fort Knox. Yep, I thought, she’d done. Came out the next moring and just for s**ts and giggles I decided see if the damn thing would even crank and lo and behold, not only did she crank over but the damn car started! Ran like nothing had ever gone wrong! So I shut her down and headed over to the local auto parts store for yet another bolt-in freeze plug, installed it, filled ‘er up with coolant and away that damn car went. Drove it for about another year before I sadly fell asleep at the wheel while driving her and totaled her 🙁 . My other indestructible vehicle was my extremely tired and worn out ’77 305 powered Silverado.I got to the point with that truck that I stopped changing the oil because it went out about as fast as it went in. Out the tailpipe and from every single gasket it had, or should I say USED to have. Several times I drove that truck until it was knocking very loudly, I’d just stop and add 5 quarts and be on my way and she’d be quiet as a church until the next time. I finally sold the old girl with about 315K miles on her and the damn thing was still running just fine… until the new owner decided to change the oil. He must have dislodged some sludge that plugged the oil pump pickup and the old girl spit a rod. Dude should have just let things be with that old truck, if he had that damn 305 would have held together just fine.
-Nissan VG30E: Tireless, good power, good fuel economy, robust design, low or no oil consumption, minimal maintenance
-Another vote for the EA 827 1.8 8-valve K-Jetronic: Little oil consumption and minimal maintenance
-Toyota 22R: Almost completely indifferent to abuse. Warped head? Maybe. Warped deck? Sure. Leaking front main? Check! Jug of oil, jug of coolant and four spark plugs stored behind the seat? Ready for an uncomfortable road trip!
I nominate the Ford Vulcan 3.0l V6. My brother ran one out of antifreeze and drove it until it was knocking and losing power. A friend fixed the coolant leak filled it with water and my brother drove it from Indians to Michigan. Eventually the knocking went away on its own. The car eventually died when my sister wrapped it around a tree.
While no one is claiming the high-strung 340 as a longevity contestant, I am a little curious about the other Mopar LA-series V8 engines: the earlier 273, and the later 360. Neither were high-performance (the 360 started out as a truck engine) but wonder how they compare with the 318. In fact, I wonder if the 318 is in the running simply due to the large number of them that were made, certainly one of the most common V8 engines from Chrysler (if not the most common).
Just guessing, I would say that the 273 and 360 were every bit as stout as the 318.
I can tell you that my wife won’t consider a mopar based on bad experiences with a 360 (cracked block among other issues) and the 2001 Ram that it was fitted in.
My engine experience is mostly Ford in that I currently have a 289, 302, 390 and 410. I would expect 200,000 miles out of them under my care. Mopar experience is only the 225 and 360 but I only had the 225 for 18 months and the 360 of today I couldn’t say as it will be lucky to get another 25,000 miles before I pass. The Ford 240 and 300 sixes also great engines from prior association via others.
The Toyota 22R I am very familiar with because of others and that is a great engine. Another great engine, from personal experience, was my Mazda 2.2L in my 86 626. That engine went 375,000 miles. I have another 2.2L Mazda with 200,000 currently and a Ford 2.3L at 160,000 miles. The Ford engine is my first of that kind and I am shooting for 250,000 miles which I expect as a minimum. The Vulcan 3.0 I have heard good things but the one sitting in my garage at 207,000 miles is making a loud tap that has yet to be located despite having the upper half of the engine apart two times.
My 2004 Buick 3800 you can ask me in another 15 years.
Would love to get experience with the engines in the Volvo 240 and Saab 900S from the 80’s. Manuals naturally.
Chevy Stovebolt 6.
1929-1990.
Jeep 4.0L in-line six. I drove a ’91 for 325,000 miles with nary a worry. I sold it to a friend of my son and it now has about 360,000 miles – unstoppable!
Two entries, based on personal experience: 1. Chevrolet 230 six which, installed in a 65 C-10, would let you know it was getting low on oil by making a slight tapping noise of the valve train. A quart or two of CO-OP 30 weight and you were back in business, no apparent ill effects. We eventually figured out the the missing oil was leaking out of the valve cover; new valve cover seal and that problem was solved. And the garage floor was a lot easier to clean up for use in the annual Father’s Day Picnic. We only had it for ten years and 75,000 miles, but those were hard ones.
2. The 4A-FE engine in the 1990’s Toyota Corolla. Sister had two of them, each passed down through multiple sons for college duty (which speaks to the issue of regular maintenance). When finally let go with 250,000 plus miles they still ran strong and tight, with only a growing buzz from a failing rear motor mount. Probably still running somewhere in the Dayton area.
I will add that the bar for acceptable longevity has certainly been raised over the years. My father’s 50’s and 60’s GM iron was meticulously maintained, with oil changed every two thousand miles and good compression/lack of oil consumption still in evidence when he would trade them in with 120-130,000 miles for something new. That was considered remarkable longevity at the time. (The truck was considered a “farm vehicle,” maintained to a different standard and expected to get by with less attention.) Now we don’t turn up our noses at a used car with 100,000 miles on it, and if it is a Toyota or a Honda consider these to be “break-in” miles. Fuel injection/better oils/improved materials and reliable assembly, for whatever reason, this is a good thing.
Motorcycle division: The Hinckley-built Triumph T3 triples (1991-1998) and four cylinders (1991-2006). 750 or 900cc on the triples, 1000 or 1200cc on the fours.
These were the first Triumph engines of the reborn Triumph company (although it never went out of business, contrary to most people’s belief), and they had to be good. Never break down, never leak oil, never have electrical problems – everything that the classic Coventry and Meriden Triumphs were incapable of doing.
I’m on my third, they’re the most perfect motorcycle in the world for me. My first Trident was lost by t-boning a deer at 60mph when the bike had over 117k on the odometer. At the time it was working perfectly, and my mechanic had only warned me that I was going to have to start looking for a new cylinder head about the 144k or 150k service. I was getting wear around the valve guides.
My second, a Speed Triple, was traded in at 55,000 on a new 2000 Tiger. It ran perfectly. My current model, a Sprint, only has 45,000 on it, so I have a feeling its going to last the rest of my life . . . . . . barring another deer.
Six figure T3’s are not at all odd, but the bar was set by a London courier who put 240,000 miles on his bike in two years – Triumph bought the bike back, and gave him a new one. They tore the engine down and everything was still within factory spec.
Wow. You learn something every day. BMW twin? Bandit? Maybe. But a Triumph? I’d never have guessed.
Some fine stories *very* entertainingly told today—lots of new-to-me perspectives.
Being from a Ford family, I know those engines best, and have heard plenty of tales about the 250 and 240/300 sixes.
I’ll mention also Ford’s low-stressed 2.3L Lima/Pinto engine. Ford really “Americanized” the design (compared to the “Kent” engine from earliest Pintos), with the beefy block and so on, and a lot of people rolled up a good number of miles in their Pintos, Rangers, Mustangs, Fairmonts, and so on.
Paul, thanks for one of your occasional reminders of the longevity upside of fuel injection–cylinder walls not getting washed by raw gas.
Someone somewhere said that “engines would prefer to be started and never shut off” (save oil changes, etc.)—where thermal expansion/contraction wouldn’t be a variable. I’ll bet today’s nominees could really roll up the miles under such conditions.
BTW: everything else equal, what’s the longevity benefit of today’s oils compared to, say, the 1960s-70s-spec stuff?
From my personal experiance, the Nissan 3.0 V6 in an 91 Maxima was the family’s all time mileage king, getting to 280k miles before being sold, still running but with a bad transmission. An 82 Honda CVCC 1500 engine came close to that mileage. It was also running but needed carb work at around 250k miles. Neither needed much more than timing belts, water pumps and oil change.
As for older stuff, I aquired 67 Mustang with a 289 once that had around 180k on it (i am guessing, odometer rolled over at least once). The engine was all sludged up and the valves were tapping, but it was still running. Since that engine was never bored out or rebuilt, I kept it to rebuild and use in my 65, whenever I have time to get back to it.
Toyota K and Nissan A
The Mopar 318 and Slant 6 are truly bullet proof. I would toss into the ix the 4.0 Liter Jeep engines in the Cherokees. Another example of bulletproof engineering. I read an article a while back about a guy who turbo charged one with 8 lbs of boost through the carb. Runs like a top and doesnt miss a beat!!
I have a neighbor who is still driving the Kaiser he bought new in the 50s. It’s been all over the US. The secret? “It’s all about bearing surfaces”.
225 Mopar slant 6.
I had a ’65 Cornet my great grandfather bought new. She had the 225. when he passed in late 70s(I was just a kid) my father, mother, 2 sisters & my aunt drove the car back from Missouri to Colorado. Then my uncle had the car, the odometer/speedo broke at 65xxxmi(165xxx actual) & my aunt drove it back and forth from north end of Denver(Northglenn) to south of downtown back & forth for work for about 7 & 1/2 or 8 years(plus other errands). Nothing really wrong with it they just had gotten a Toyo corolla on the cheap so the ’65 was parked in the backyard for quite a few years until I bought it in late 80’s. Threw a new battery some new gas, prime the carb & she was up & running in minutes. As best of my estimations the car probably had 325k- 350k when I parked her(still running fine) at a friends house east of town(Colorado Springs) as I got something newer. The body was pretty shot as well the interior. Some people broke all the glass out threw full jam & jelly jars in it(witch rotted in the hot summer sun) & who knows what else they did. Other than a late 70s head(with seated valves for unleaded out of a junkyard donor) nothing was really done other than regular maintenance. I wish I would have parked it somewhere else, might still be rolling around now. Had alot of other cars since but nothing even close as durable.
2 great honorable mentions-
I have a ’91 sable 160xxx vulcan 3.0 still runs great.
I had a ’94 Chrysler LHS 3.5 went 238xxx before 1st gen on bored cpu fried(might still be running with a better cpu like later years).