the options are not limited to these four examples
(Submitted by Gonzo) I will be living in Germany for the next six months. I’ve just decided that buying a cheap car is better for my needs than renting one almost every weekend. Normally, I won’t need a car in the week, but I plan to travel with my wife and two kids in Germany and Europe on weekends and vacation.
I don’t want to lose much money, and since I won’t have much time to sell it when I leave, I gave myself a 2.500 Euro limit. That and the need to carry 4 persons are my only conditions. And I don’t really need luxury or speed, and I don’t have any extra wishes. Well, perhaps I do: To drive something that I won’t be able to drive when I get back home.
Should it be a weird Citroen? Or a 90’s Mercedes without power windows? A Fiat? An obscure British car? Or a Euro-spec Japanese car? Dear CComentariat: What kind of car should I choose? What would be your beater wishes be for six wild months in Europe?
Editor’s Update: Please do not make suggestions unless you’ve read his post thoroughly, including his budget and the other details. If you’re not familiar with Germany’s auto market and the related costs of ownership, perhaps it might be best not to leave an irrelevant suggestion. What might be relevant in the US most often is not in Germany.
Fiat all the way
On the whole I’d suggest a Japanese, be wary some Nissans suffer from rampant rust.
Germans best avoided unless they are mid 90s or earlier. French not as bad as they are made out to be, fairly rust resistant and OK if kept well serviced, electrical problems will have killed off the unreliable ones by now.
Italians, best avoided completely and now, apart from the Fiat 500 becoming a rare sight on British roads. British cars; not as bad as might be expected, early Anglo Japanese Rovers reliable if well serviced, Range Rovers dire in all forms, Ford era Jaguars good. Plenty of good Volvos about; Saab build quality and auto boxes dodgy- best avoided. Older Fords/ Vauxhalls good apart from dullness and inevitable Vauxhall rust. Skoda very good if dull, pre 2009 Octavia an excellent beater in diesel form.
Hyundais are cheap and reliable. Speaking from a British viewpoint just avoid anything German…
Avoid anything German, but the Octavia is excellent? It’s a VW golf. Same parts, same reliability. VWs are good cars in general (there are a few specific exceptions, like pre-2008 2.0 TDI engines) and parts for them are cheap and easily accessible in Europe.
Citroen all the way .
Anyhow there’s a car that became global and popular everywhere, still not available in the US, and it’ s reliable comfortable a true best selling that came to be a great player : Dacia Sandero, made in Romenia .
James May, is that you?…..
Having lived in Germany for 20+ years do keep in mind that traffic is terrible these days and one can be stuck sitting on the Autobahn for hours when there is an accident. Or, construction or what ever other reason they can find to close the road. Here the priority is NOT getting the road open after an accident. Parking in the larger cities is also a problem. Insurance and fuel are relatively expensive, too.
Public transportation is usually excellent and a lot of people use car sharing services of which there are several alternatives.
Just my 2 cents.
So you’re in Germany, mainly. In that case I’d say anything with the good ol’ 1.9 TDI, like a VW Passat B4 Combi (wagon). Or a Benz C- or E-Class (W210 in the picture) turbodiesel.
Or smaller, like an older-ish Skoda Oktavia. VW mechanicals that any mechanic can fix (like a small block Chevy over here), Jetta sized, but not a Jetta. However, keep in mind that you will be there during the winter and changing (thus owning) a set of winter tires is compulsory. That alone will suck up at least 20% of your budget. Germany’s not like the US where any pile of rolling garbage is allowed to travel the streets.
Even in the US, the land of the cheap car, while there are lots of sub $2500 cars available, there are not overly many that I’d trust to travel around the country (or even some states) and have confidence that it would get me and my family where I’m going (and more importantly back) until I had a fair amount of time with the car and felt that I really could trust it.
Not that it can’t be done but I recall at one point during the roadtrip to Detroit we commented that while we were seeing some CC-worthy iron, once outside of any major city, the sightings were very, very sparse. People buy and use beaters locally. But for regular and safe/reliable longer-distance travel, a recently acquired budget-mobile rarely makes sense.
Agreed that the € 2,500 budget is darn tight. It will get you something like a circa 2000 Benz C-Class with a 4-cylinder diesel, so 200 or 220 CDI. Without an astronomic number on the odometer.
The thing is this: it’s much easier to find a decent VW Passat B4/B5 or Audi 80/A4 from the early- and mid-nineties than a contemporary Ford Mondeo or Opel Vectra…because most of the latter have gone up in smoke by now.
Just for fun I searched around a bit here. Close enough to Germany…
Exactly € 2,500 asking price for this 2003 VW Passat wagon with a 2.0 liter gasoline engine, a 5-speed manual and 252,300 km on the clock. Fully documented, the ad says. And with a full tank of gas!
Close enough – Sure, Europe is like one little country, isn’t it… 🙂
That same car would be about the same price over here, main difference is it would have either the 1.8T or the 2.8V6 and likely an automatic. And the tank would be at least half empty.
Rheinlanders unite! 🙂
I was going to suggest a B4 (’92-’95) Audi 80 1.9 TDI Avant. If there is an Audi that was overbuilt, it is that one.
When I travel, the last thing I want to deal with is an unreliable car. I would purchase a reliable mass-market vanilla Japanese offering, like a Nissan or Honda, and drive it without worry. Sure, I would love to drive something unique like the Fiat Multipla, but do I want to have the full “Italian car experience” while vacationing far from home? No way!
Toyota only, or the bus!
Toyotas are not exactly thick on the ground in Europe.
…and their actually expensive, even when in terrible condition, because “their so solid”.
The premium you have to pay for one, including the huge mileage, negates any benefit. The benefit is already reaped by previous owners. Get a Citroen, or VW. Atleast their cheap.
A Polo diesel
The German experience really needs a German to advise : why because the ‘banger’ (beater market) works differently in each European country. In the UK most bigger Citroens and many E Class Mercedes were purchased by private buyers – and have often been loved if you can find a low ownership model. In France where I live part-time distances are longer and cars rack up huge mileages so any car is a lottery – best to look for something Japanese which may have been treated as a curiosity and this less driven. Germany I have no idea how the market works – so ask a German.
+1. Exactly Mark. The question should read ‘Germany’, not ‘Europe’, and many of the suggestions are misguided or irrelevant.
It’s amazing how many people on here seem to think Europe is one little country.
I’ve amended the title and text. Germany it is.
Think Accord/Camry if they’re available; you’ll get comfort and reliability.
FYI,the European camry/accord is nothing like the American, so forget comfort. There will extremely seldom be a v6/auto, its 4 cyl/manual, stripper usually. Their in fact equal to the US corolla in size.
Not only are the Accord and Camry slightly different in Europe, they also aren’t all that popular like they are in the U.S. Of course, the flip side is that they might be cheaper (or might not?) and COULD have had 1 or 2 older/mature drivers.
Replace “are” by “were”. Both the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord have been withdrawn from the Euro-market. The Camry around 2004 IIRC and the Accord in 2015.
The biggest “conventional” Toyota sedan/wagon here now is the D-segment Avensis, same segment as say the Euro-spec VW Passat and the Opel Insignia aka Buick Regal. And it sells extremely poorly, BTW.
Have you ever been to Europe? If so, you likely wouldn’t be offering this poor advice. Both these cars are extremely rare in Germany.
What might be good information in the US typically doesn’t apply in Europe.
Sorry if I misled; what I meant was “think” Camryish or Accordish, as in a Japanese sedan or wagon.
Which other Japanese sedans or wagons in that segment do you have in mind, if I may ask?
We’re talking about the homeland of Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Opel and -to a somewhat lesser extent- Ford. And then you still have Skoda, Renault, Peugeot, Citroën, Volvo, Alfa Romeo and Jaguar from the surrounding countries. All fighting for a slice of the mid-size family car/D-segment pie.
You’ve got to change your mindset. Japanese brands don’t even remotely have the same position in Northwestern Europe as they have in North America.
I agree, I must admit I was thinking from a USA standpoint; I was in Holland and Hamburg. Germany, about 12 years ago, admittedly a long time. Guess I’m out of touch, by the way what did you think of the late 90s to 2003 VW Passat? I was intrigued by their sleek beauty, and impeccable interiors; I was going to buy one, but I got scared off by Consumer reports magazine, in 1999, they raved about the car, but reported poor reliability….so I chose a Toyota Camry. Was the 99 Passat that unreliable?
Malcolm, the Passat B5 (introduced in 1996) was a major commercial success here. Till then Ford, Opel, Renault and Peugeot pretty much owned that segment of the market. The “sales rep-car”, a mid-size (to Europeans) family sedan or wagon. VW really hit a homerun with the B5, and also with the later generations.
Most of them came with the 1.9 TDI (direct injected turbodiesel) or 1.8T (turbo gasoline) engine, both with a 5 speed manual. The TDI was also used in other VAG cars, like the VW Golf and Audi A4. In their days these were powerful and fast -for a diesel- and they all got serious numbers on the odometer with routine maintenance only.
In Europe the Camry was not in the same segment as the VW Passat, Ford Mondeo, Opel Vectra etc. It was bigger, more luxurious and more expensive.
Typical Camry rivals were the Ford Scorpio, Opel Omega, Peugeot 605 and also the Nissan Maxima. The Toyota Carina E (an excellent car, quality-wise) and later the first gen Avensis were Toyota’s VW Passat competitors in the nineties.
Thanks for the info; American auto journalists raved about those Passats, as well as Golfs and Jettas (Jetta has been VW’s American sales leader for years). The first time I was in Holland and Germany was 1986, My uncle in Hamburg had a brand new Opel Senator, a beautiful, luxurious sedan; being American, I had thought of Opel’s as quirky little economy Eurocars; imagine my surprise when I sat inside that lovely, spacious Senator! Was the Senator a Euro sales success, I would certainly think so!
Thanks for info; yes, that is the Senator model I rode in. I wasn’t up on European cars then (as now!) And I will never forget riding in that luxo Senator, and merrily telling my German uncle, “Gosh Karl-Heinz, I just love these Swedish cars!” He almost drove off the road!! (Will never make that mistake again!) I guess when your competition is BMW and MBenz, it’s going to be an uphill battle. Which would you prefer, a “Bimmer’ or a Benz? I always thought Mercedes, but many guys tell me BMW are supreme vehicles
If that was in 1986, it must have been a new Opel Senator A2, like below. In 1987 the new Senator B was introduced, based on the Opel Omega.
Unfortunately, not very successful. In Germany mainly because Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Other car manufacturing Euro-countries had their own big (again, to Europeans…) cars back then, like the Renault 25.
Mainstream Euro- and Japanese brands don’t offer cars in that “Senator-segment” anymore. Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, Jaguar and Maserati are the only Euro-offerings in the executive sedan segment these days.
I recall those Senators being a fairly common sight on the roads in Scotland. They were certainly popular with British police forces after the demise of the Rover SD1.
Camry is indeed rare but early to mid Accords can be seen on the curbs from time to time. Both are ridiculously reliable though.
I can’t seem to post a link to the German government’s durability reports, but search on these terms and you’ll find it:
An used car – TÜV reports
Report 2017, age of cars 10-11 years – reliability rating — TÜV reports
The only German cars that hold up in Germany as well as Japanese cars do in Germany are the Porsche 911, the Mercedes SLK, and the Audi TT. Any guesses why? It’s because they’re second and third cars that see little use. The best cars are the best cars everywhere in the world. If you can afford a Toyota Avensis, you’ll have something you can’t have in the US combined with what we take for granted in the US: better cars than the Europeans can dream of engineering.
CJinSD – by “better cars” you mean “cars which are slightly more reliable but often inferior in other departments”.
Buy as young as possible for your money. Enough cheap diesels for sale with around 200.000 km experience that run like new. I you want to (have at least a chance to) sell the car when you leave, go German or buy a Volvo or a Ford.
Correctamundo! When in Rome, do as the Romans do…
The man will be living in Germany, there must be a zillion domestic cars around to choose from, in any condition you want. A Toyota Camry? A Honda Accord? Were these even sold there?
Diesel Benz (wagon if I can get it) – there’s so many of them in existence that any repairs would likely be cheaper and easier than here in the US. Plus the I could likely sell it at the end of the 6 months for pretty close to what I paid for it.
It is weird here in the states to hear of a Mercedes without power windows! If it were reliable I would take the Mercedes wagon. On the other hand, if you want to play it safe I would go Honda or Toyota. Can’t go wrong either way!
Any diesel car at that price is a liability, though if it’s a diesel VW then everyone will know how to fix it when/if it expires..
Japanese and petrol are your safest bets. Pre- 2000 Toyotas should be Japanese – Rav 4s are all Japanese I think. Otherwise Honda Accord & CRV and Mitsubishi Galant/ Lancer and your best bet is any petrol Mazda.
Rav 4 is an extremely uncommon car in Europe, nothing you can expect a good deal on. That’s for specially interested people. Plus, the mileage the 4wd makes with $7-10 a gallon matters more than you think.
I would agree that a 4wd Rav 4 would probably be uncommon. Entry level models are usually 2wd.
Sorry, just spotted my mistake. At this price point the Hondas will not be Japanese. An Accord would have to be 2003-on to be Japanese.
Information that might be useful in the US will most likely not be applicable in the EU.
Before you buy, check the history of whatever model you are looking at for common problems. The internet can be your best friend when trying to predict what might happen to a used car. If no unusual issues for a model, pick the individual car that seems best regardless of make & model.
Part of the beater experience is sometimes driving a car you wouldn’t dream of buying if it were something you intended to keep long term.
Here’s what happened to my son when he didn’t check out a particular car for common problems when he needed a beater.
Son had a 1 year tour in Hawai’i and didn’t want to ship his car to be exposed to the salt air for that time. After searching Criag’s list, he decided to drive and compare an ’05 Neon with a ’99 Monte Carlo. Both seemed equally good running cars. Both priced below $1k. Neither were cars he particularly liked, but both drove like they had another year of life left.
He picked the Monte Carlo unaware of the 3.1’s well documented history of an almost universal propensity to develop lower intake leaks. 5 months later – the car developed exactly such a leak. He’s been nursing it along ever since hoping to make it last.
Can’t say the Neon would have done better, but an after-the-fact check on the history of the ’05 Neon certainly suggests that model had less inherent problems than the 99 Monte.
No doubt : Lancia . It’ s “chic” , distincted and smells exclusive, a car apart from the boring lot . Plus has a Chrysler warranty !
Stick to the easy, low-hanging fruit. Focus or Golf. It’ll be an easy buy and easy sell if you stick to the middle.
(I’d recommend Camry or similar to someone visiting the US)
This isn’ t a game but a serious inquiry so don’ t let you get fooled around. Wanna have comfort and space without sacrificing speed ? Wanna make many mpg ? Do you prior dependable engines and you don’ t care if BMW Jaguar Audi drivers are only worried to make social fuss ? Then the most intelligent choice for an average European tour is the sleek Citroen Berlingo Multispace or a well used Citroen Xsara Picasso first generation . They share a single unit motor 1.6 HDi . They are completely proven since 15 years to date. You will not get unexpected surprises. My advice is based not in suppositions but in real facts as i hired ‘ em twice in different journeys for more than 7 months each . Chapeau for small Citroen miniSUVs , who in adition are amazingly roomy inside.
Are you serious? The PSA 1.6 HDi is a terrible engine, notorious for premature turbo failure. In an attempt to prevent this from happening, many dealers will advise you to change your engine oil every 10.000 kms (the service interval given by the producer is 30.000 kms). If you stick to 30.000 kms intervals (like most people do, as they don’t want to pay for the extra oil changes) the oil gets contaminated with soot particles and this will kill the turbo. Steer clear of used cars with this engine.
The cause for turbo failure on these engines is the oil feed hose, which gets clogged. It should be inspected during every oil change. Otherwise it’s a very reliable engine, especially the lowest output variants which don’t have variable geometry turbos or dual mass flywheels.
You’re in an enviable position and the six months will be over very quickly; I would get a car that would be memorable from a technical and subjective perspective. The Citroen Xantia, if you can find a good one, would offer a magic carpet ride down the motorway with its hydropneumatic suspension and provide stories to tell your relatives that you once owned and drove a Citroen.
Xantias are great driving cars simple and reliable, very easy to fix when something breaks at least here they are, A mate of mine has Malaysian market 1905 turbo diesel model with a souped up motor weve just swapped drive axles engine mounts and front wheelbearing carriers and repaired the hydraulics, things do go wrong at huge mileages try to get one thats done less than 500,000kms Parts should be cheap in Europe here we just buy whole cars and dismantle them, whole Xantias with panel damage $200 tow em away, Xsara diesel towing Xantia Gas model parts car.
Xantias are unfortunately not very commonly found in Germany anymore. More recent Citroëns within budget aren’t nearly as interesting.
Look into short term leases. Most major rental companies provide them and there are others that do as well such as Kemwel.com etc. Check Sixt, Europcar, and sometimes the manufacturers themselves. Just google “Europe Short Term Car Lease”.
The deal is you get a brand new car that you select (not just “or similar”) and the term has to be longer than 21 days and under 1 year. Most cars qualify, although I often see french cars advertised. It may be a bit more than E2500 HOWEVER usually insurance is included and it will be a new car with a warranty and breakdown service.
Driving a beater around Europe is fun (well, the idea is and I’ve often entertained it) but the last thing I want to do is be stuck at the side of the Autobahn with three little kids and a wife asking me when the car will be fixed…If it were just me, sure, but not with the family.
+1. With the parameters given, your idea is exactly what I was thinking as well. Much less risk involved all around.
A quick search from Renault EuroDrive shows a cost of about $3,400 for 6 months in a Clio or Dacia Sandero if picked up in Munich. Larger cars like a Dacia Duster or Renault Captur are in the $3,700 range.
+1. When by yourself, it is an adventure. When you involve others, it is the last thing you need. Get something safe and reliable with 0 problems to deal with when leaving. If you really want the experience, find a 25 year old oddity and ship it home when you leave. Drive the beater here in the states, where it will make CC’ers drool with envy.
That Multipla, please! Last car – okay, ONLY car – I drove in Europe was a 127 my mom rented. I had a 128 back home, and I was tickled at how much livelier the littler one was. So a just-big-enough Fiat with widely reported great handling and lovely road manners AND a tall, large-windowed greenhouse has got to be the best travelling companion, whether cruising the autostrade/autoroutes or trying to follow the Centre Ville signs.
I did actually see one several times here in Pasadena; I don’t know if it was a trial run by the factory or what, but I followed a family of four in it down Orange Grove one evening, and spotted it around town a couple of times more. That would have been around 2001 …
Renault Avantime!
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/renault/6687638.jpg
Definitely!
I’m afraid you’re going to have to sift carefully through these recommendations. It’s not an easy question to answer, actually, and obviously some of the suggestions are pretty iffy, if downright unrealistic. Jim Klein’s idea of a lease is a good one. But other than that, you’re going to have to do a bit of research on what is typically available in your price range in Germany, maybe by checking on-line sites before you go.
Clearly, the least risky answer is going to be in smaller, simpler cars that are common; less to go wrong, and easier to fix if it needs it.
Good luck, and have a great time!
I have always been obsessed with base model Mercedes Benz of late 80’s and 90’s vintage. The manual windows, wheel covers and fabric seats make these cars so utilitarian in juxtaposition to the models exported to the US. I would select a 190E!
I live in Germany so I could give you some tips…
Firstly, make sure the emission sticker is green. Otherwise, you would be restricted from entering the city centres in large cities at certain time of the day or day of week if it is red or yellow. If you see the orange hexagonal sticker (rare nowadays), avoid them at all cost. It’s too much of hassle getting the emission control test to get red, yellow, or green round sticker.
Secondly, check to see the expiry date of HU-Prüfung (vehicle inspection). It should be valid past your return date. The sticker is orange dial attached to the rear numberplate.
Thirdly, you need to arrange for the insurance and numberplate registration. You haven’t said where you are planning to spend six months. KFZ-Zulassung (vehicle registration agency) is really nasty place in some cities. It’s even worse in Munich with long wait and lot of hassle of going from one counter to other.
Let’s see…oh, yes, Finanzamt (revenue agency) to pay the sales tax of 19%.
I suggest having extra €1,000 for the sales tax, registration fee, insurance, numberplates, and other surprises.
Buying a car from the sales centre is probably easier as they can arrange for the numberplates, sales tax, and registrations onsite.
ADAC has a lovely sales contract form with English translation for you to peruse:
https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Kaufvertrag_engl_11.2016_V1_33250.pdf
Hello, still there?
Try mobile.de and autoscout24.de to give you the idea of what you can get for less than €2,500. Refine the search to your area by adding the postal code or city (PLZ oder Stadt) and distance (Umkreis).
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?ambitCountry=DE&categories=EstateCar&categories=Limousine&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&doorCount=FOUR_OR_FIVE&isSearchRequest=true&maxPrice=2500&minSeats=4&scopeId=C
https://www.autoscout24.de/ergebnisse?body=6&body=5&pricefrom=0&priceto=2500&cy=D&powertype=kw&doorfrom=4&doorto=5&seatsfrom=4&offer=U&ctf=9&ctf=7&ctf=8&ctf=4&atype=C&ustate=N%2CU&ctf=5&ensticker=4&ctf=9&ctf=7&ctf=8&ctf=4&ctf=5&sort=standard&desc=0
Good luck!
Now that’s the kind of information that’s useful. Thanks.
I pulled up mobile.de for some pricing.
Figuring a 4 person load and allowing some squirming room, I’m looking in the C segment.
2500 Euros will get you a Mk 4 Golf (early 2000s) with 100-200,000 km, or a Mk 1 Ford Focus of the same age and wear, or an Opel Astra G or early H, again about the same early 2000s vintage and 100-200,000km
Skoda Octavias seem to be a bit more pricy. An early 2000s model in your price range seems to have 150-250,000 km on the clock.
Those are the volume leaders in the C segment, so the widest choice of cars and easiest to find parts and service for.
laff break, one of my favorite VW commercials.
Nice you came up with that one Steve, a classic VeeDub-commercial, although it’s fairly recent.
In the C-segment the VW Golf is The Untouchable. A more common name for the C-segment is the Golf-Class. But of course you already knew that.
First the commercial….
Then the outtake!
Seeing all the red tape and restrictions in OliverTwist’s post, Jim Klien’s short term lease suggestion seems to make the most sense, both financially and in terms of avoiding break down’s and repair hassles and expenses. Would go for a VW in Germany if the beater route is the one you choose.
I was going to mention that you would want to make sure that the inspection is valid until he was ready to go home. Great info on the emission sticker thing.
Essentially I’d want to make sure that it was not going to need or at least was not likely to need tires, brakes, battery, timing belt or other major service in the next 6 months in addition to the things needed to be able to actually drive it like the inspection or emissions stickers. I guess with the tires or batteries used would be an option to get it by for a few more weeks or months but it would suck to have to do a brake job knowing you’ll only own it a few weeks.
Wow. Thanks for your advice. I was more or less aware of all that, and is considered as an extra in my budget. Do you think I can save some money with a “Saisonkennzeichen” (seasonal permit)?
Wow. Thanks for your advice. I was more or less aware of all that, and is considered as an extra in my budget.
Something occurred to me. You said you had a 2500 Euro budget. Are you budgeting to *spend* 2500? Any beater type car you buy for 2500 will, six months later, still retain most of that value when you sell it, so the actual expenditure might be more like 1,000 Euros, depending on how much is lost to taxes and transaction fees. If you had a handle on what the transaction fees and residual values were, you might be able to adjust the amount you are willing to pay for the car.
For giggles, I checked car rental rates in Germany. The cheapest seem to be from Peugeot. I plugged in renting in Munich on August 4th and returning on Feb 4. A Pug 308 hatchback would cost 3767 US Dollars. On the positive side, by renting probably all the worries about inspections, permits and making repairs on a high mile 15 year old car would go away.
The 308 looks reasonable on the outside, but be prepared for French wierdness on the inside, like a tach that rotates counterclockwise when every other tach in the world rotates clockwise.
Good question…
Yes and no. I understand the saving on insurance might not be much to make any difference. You would have to negotiate with insurance carriers to get favourable rate.
In addition, you would have to prove that you do have a parking space such as garage to store the car outside the nominated dates. You cannot leave it on the public street. The Behörden (bureaucracy) is very fincky for the detail and would not give you numberplates until all boxes have been satisfactorily ticked.
I forgot to add that you would have to go through the whole process of deregistering the car before leaving Germany. A friendly word with Finanzamt, another courteous word with Kfz-Zulassung, and still a polite word with insurance. Then, good luck selling it…
With all of hassle, I think it might be worth extra to hire a car for six months unless you are very adventuresome.
With all of hassle, I think it might be worth extra to hire a car for six months unless you are very adventuresome.
It’s a balancing act. Rent and the 4,000 Euros are gone, for a hassle free experience. That Pug 308 was the cheapest. Some of the rental rates for 6 months were a lot more. Europecar wants $7400 for a manual trans Astra or $8000 for a manual trans Golf for the same period. Alamo wants $4600 for a manual trans Golf . Driving a Pug would have it’s own issues. There appeared to be only a couple places in Germany were Peugeot has it’s own rental agents, and Pugs are not popular in Germany so there may not be a place handy where the free towing and service of the rental agreement are supported.
Buy and you have all the pitfalls of ownership, but the car will have resale value when you leave the country.
Best deal would be to find a car being sold by someone else who is leaving the country, business transfer or military rotation as I always expect someone who sells a car otherwise does so to avoid a big repair bill.
This is the site where I am getting the rental pricing.
http://www.autoeurope.com/
If you’re being practical and sensible, for a family of 4 and so on, a VW Touran MPV, probably diesel, a Skoda Octavia estate or perhaps a Passat if the budget will stretch to a good enough one. French and Italian cars may be more individual but are not as sturdy and you’re in Germany.
If you want something British, good luck finding it in Germany, but may be a Jaguar X-type estate or (long shot) a Rover 75 or MG ZT Tourer with the BMW diesel engine engine and better than you might expect build quality.
For something more trans-European, and with less image than any of the above, a Ford Mondeo? Great cars, let down only by the badge and interior plastics.
An English friend of mine who lives in Australia used to go on the hump roofing in Germany he and his brother took English cars over three times all had to be abandoned as German garages either wouldnt or couldnt fix them twoo Fords and one Rover.
Yeah I was surprised by Jim Klein’s description of the US as land of the cheap car. I’m soon to move to MN from the UK and find used car prices there horrifyingly expensive.
If you’re being practical and sensible, for a family of 4 and so on, a VW Touran MPV
2500 Euros will get you this gas engine 03 Touran with 112,000km on the clock.
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=247588711&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&grossPrice=true&isSearchRequest=true&makeModelVariant1.makeId=25200&makeModelVariant1.modelId=37&maxPrice=2500&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=specifics.mileage&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&fnai=prev
Any VAG brand: stay away from first-year cars – something I learned the hard way with my 02 Seat Ibiza.
As for the Fords, like Opels they are usually quite a bit cheaper than their VAG competitors. However, steer clear of the 1.6 TDCi diesel engine, also found in the Volvo S40/V50 and various Peugeots and Citroëns.
Not knowing exactly what that will buy over there it certainly is hard to give a recommendation for a specific car, but I will say that I’d certainly think long and hard about making sure I bought something I couldn’t buy at home. It is your chance to be able to say “I owned a Citroen” (or other euro only car)
The other option would be to look into places that rent used cars. They likely have weekly or monthly discounts. So get a Citroen one month and something different next month and have no worries about what to do with it when it is time to go home.
On the other hand buy a car that isn’t going to be due for that inspection sticker, tires, ect when it is time to come home and you can probably recoup a large portion of the original purchase price.
Or try the used car dealer and tell him up front that you’ll be selling it back to him in 6 months and see if you can negotiate the buy back price up front assuming you return the car with no new damage and with no more than X Km’s added to the odometer.
What about a nice used Ford Fiesta or Ford Focus. The Focus is plenty roomy and gives a reasonably pleasant ride. My brother had a 2001(Gen 1) and I had the Americanized Gen 2 (2005) both gave great service and were easy to work on. There is a reason Focus were big sellers in Europe
Thanks for your advice. it’s really useful. The Idea of a lease is tempting and seems to make sense. I’ll take a look at it. And in case I should buy, I think I’ll go for an European car… I will let know in two weeks!!
This is Curbside Classic- I feel let down by all of you guys suggesting modern cars! I think a classic could work well here- it’s mostly only a weekend driver, and you prioritize space and affordability over speed. There’s a classic, unique car that is common and cheap in Europe and meets all of your demands: the Citroen 2CV (or it’s derivatives.) These cars are almost unkillable, and people have driven them across the desert before. Be prepared to spend for maintenance- things like fuel lines, hoses, greasing parts, etc that can go wrong on an older car. However, if something major breaks on one of these, you can fix on your own with a few small tools, unlike an older “modern” car (1990s+) which is old enough to need maintenance but new enough that costs can be expensive. I don’t think 2CVs are exactly “thick on the ground” in Germany, but they can be found, and, at worst, you can make a weekend trip of taking the high-speed train to a nearby country and driving one back, but I don’t know where exactly in Germany you are.
I Already HAD a 2cv! I’m from Chile, and these were built here until 1979. I had one between 2001 and 2005, when I was a student. I travelled thousands of kilometers with it in Chile, from south to north. It’s an amazing car and still love them, but that’s not what I need in Autobahnlandia. And they’re getting expensive, too. Sadly, the same Is happening to other European CCs such as the MB124… That might be the reason most commenters are recommending newer cars
Good luck finding a drivable, not too crispy 2CV with a valid TÜV inspection for less than €5000…
2CV prices have skyrocketed over the last decade or so.
As much as I love the 2CV I wouldn’t recommend buying one in this case. It is impractical on the Autobahn (top speed 110 kph, which means you’re stuck on the slow lane with a big truck wanting to kiss your rear bumper). Plus, Germany is not Florida, meaning that from October to May you really want a family car with a heater that works. Forget about that in a 2 CV. Plus, I’m afraid a good 2 CV will set you back way more than 2500 euros these days. Boy do I hate being such a killjoy…
Boy would I like to spend six months in Germany. Having rented two different generations of Focus on two different trips to Europe, that would be my first choice. Gret on gas, great handling and very comfortable and small enough to nip around some tight urban streets.
I rented a Fiat Panda in 03 on my first driving trip over there. That was good too but the lack of a stereo was a sore point.
Read some of the articles on wwwthelocal.de – German news/current affairs in English and you’ll see that Germany really is a world unto itself with many quirks not found elsewhere in Europe. Having said that, however much I despise Volkswagens I’d probably recommend going for that brand in this country.
Friends of ours from California who lived in France for about 9 months with their two kids found that long term rentals were a good deal. I think over that period they had 2 cars; when we visited them they had a Multipla which seemed very practical … and to my eyes, more exotic than a Ferrari. However that was way back in 2004 🙂
I’d like to recommend the Nissan Maxima 2000-2002 models. They’re much more common than the Camry or Accord in Europe and every bit as reliable.
Get a W124 Merc. Strong, elegant, comfortable, and simple to work on, should that be necessary.
The long term rental is a good idea. German public transportation is quite good, so de
ending where you are and where you have to go, it may suit your needs. I know BMW had a program where you can pick up a US spec BMW at the factory and they would arrange shipping. You saved a bit of money that way by circumventing the dealer markup. Depending on what the dealer vs factory price is and long term rental costs, the new BMW could work. Drive it in Germany, ship it stateside, then dump it at your leisure. Just thinking outside the box.
Most any Skoda Yeti that falls in the budget. Most have diesel, will fit 4 + luggage for weekend haul. Should be no issues with repairs or maintenance if needed and easy to sell at the end of 6 months. Just make sure to do a “Carfax” check or equivalent for Europa!!
Plan B would be a Fiat Panda. Again, very common and easy to fix if issues arise!!
Enjoy the trip!! =;-}
Used Yetis start at €6000 so they are way out of budget.
Pandas are very small cars. For local transport without luggage they are perfect, especially in an Italian village. But for weekend trips with wife and kids in German winter? Sorry but no.
Is there a certain size or minimum car class you require?
B-Class or supermini – VW Polo, Opel Corsa, Renault Clio, Ford Fiesta
C-Class or small family car – VW Golf, Opel Astra, Renault Megane, Ford Focus
These above are actually pretty practical in Europe for parking and fuel economy..Bigger cars like Passats, Mondeos, Citroen C5s are going to be more costly to run
another german here, driving exclusively beaters for all of 14 years now.
easiest summary for beater satisfaction in germany: low tech gas engine, manual trans, german, maybe japanese, up to circa mid-90s and not much later. the longievity took a nose dive all over the board after 1995. and, very important, check pollution class and insurance classification, the latter is based on frequency of insurance claims of a certain bodystyle-engine-combinaton of a model, the former is the multiplicator for the displacement based road tax. and both will contribute a large chunk to the costs. but, opposing to the statement above, Saisonzulassung is indeed the most sensible way for you and shouldn’t cause any hassle at all, if you sell the car on departure anyway.
next point: diesel is bad. purchase price, road tax, insurance, cost of potential repairs – the impact on all of the above is substantial enough to negate the fuel savings, plus some bigger cities might fine you for entering with an old diesel car.
a 1.8 to 2.0 four cylinder without turbos and no more than 8 valves will serve you just fine in the right car, when the skill of rowing gears is developed, neither performance nor fuel milage will be compromised. also, not only haven’t we over here been able to develop a decent automatic, our traffic realities and driving habits manage to cook perfectly fine american ATs.
next: french or italian cars are not bad per se, but over here you need to WANT one to be fine with the trade-offs. parts availability and prices and work shop costs are genuine issues, as is iffy reliability, if only for the simple reason, that the cars are the cheaper, “inferior” alternative, therefore less respected by owners and techs alike. same or similar hits the japanese cars had to take early in their lives, though they were able to handle it better. also the market for toyotas and hondas is significantly smaller, since they are popular with exporters (to nearby africa and former eastern bloc).
my suggestion would be volkswagen passat and audi 80 or 100, roughly from 1989 through 1995, preferably in fwd sedan guise, simply because they were the “squares’ and public servants’ cars” and not as suitable for hard duty and using up as the station wagons. still very roomy inside.
stay away from benzes and bmw, they have an own set of ways to nickle and dime you and have a history of being popular with the wrong crowd, maintainance wise that is. lots of opels and fords can be had for a song and there are reasons for that. nice for a dedicated handyman, but if you have other priorities, they are better off skipped.
long story short: you need the local variation of a cutlass ciera in its final years, not a cavalier or early northstar-cadillac.
good luck!
I’d suggest a Citroen C5 first gen (2001-2004). It’s big (for euro standards that is), very comfortable, not very expensive and most of all: you will most certainly not be able to find something alike back home. It’s very oldskool Citroen with hydraupneumatics and all, but it doesn’t make your passengers seasick.
Being from the Netherlands I’m not an expert in the German car market, but I did buy cars in Germany as they often have better specs and lower mileage than in the Netherlands. Mobile.de is the place to go to.
I’d recommend a 2.0 petrol. There’s a petrol V6 as well but I guess you don’t need that, it’s very quick but very (very) thirsty. There are diesels as well. Just stay away from the c5 HPI – its famous for it’s engine problems.
There’s only one downside actually… it’s hideous 🙂 Even Citroen enthusiasts (like myself) tend to think it’s an ugly car. A Dutch car magazine summed up the C5 quite accurately at it’s launch in 2001: it’s like a jogging suit – you look like s***t, but once you’re in it, you never want to get out again.
For reference: this is my C5V6 I bought just recently for under 2000 euro’s. Full spec, just under 110.000 kms. Enjoy your search, for that is a big part of the fun already!
I’ll chime in with my fellow Germans with my 50 cent.
You should check first if will need residency in Germany to actually register a car in your own name. Plates are issued to the owner and not to the car, so I figure you won’t be able to register one easily unless you have a proper adress.
If that’s solved, I strongly recommend NOT to buy an old Diesel. Every major city has an “Umweltzone” (pollution cotrolled zones) at their centres in which only catalysed petrol and Euro5 (and up) classified Diesel cars are allowed to enter. Hefty fines might be incurred if you’re caught driving there nonetheless. Any Diesel car in your price range will not make the “Umweltzone”.
As for actual models, you should ignore what you know from back home on “reliability issues”. Over here, cars are driven and maintained very in a very different way than in the U.S., so people are convinced e.g. Audis are actually very reliable. Choose what you fancy and don’t be scared of odd choices. Buying a beater is always a bit of a lottery and a proven to be well maintained Fiat is always better than a run-to-the-ground Merc.
Personally, I’d go for a well maintained Citroen Xantia or 1st gen Citroen C5. Really good cars, especially if you plan to do a lot of travelling. Both models were non-existent in Germany’s company car market. Which means that even if there are not as many around as Passats, most of them were owned by private owners giving them due TLC. A good, low
mileage Xantia will surely be in your price range.
If you don’t want french, a first gen Merc C180 will do the job just fine.
Hi,
I am a german petrolhead since childhood, recently graduated from college, so I know my way around the beater market. In fact, it is my specialty, I dedicate an entire blog to the beaters of my hometown, Berlin:
stradediberlino.wordpress.com
With all due respect to the numerous contributors, after reading all the posts, I feel they reflect mostly the fantasies, not the facts of driving cheap in Germany, (with the exception of Herman G.Goldth and C107):
Ten dollars a gallon for gas? 1000 euro registration fees? A Lancia with a Chrysler warranty? These are things that do not exist. I you have experienced them, you got tricked, and I’m sorry for that to have happened.
Buying beaters in Germany isn’t witchcraft. If you stick to some simple rules, you can find fantastic cars in your price range, that neither look nor drive like your typical beaters.
For your convenience, I will supply you with these basic rules, tell you where can buy your car and recommend some specific models – all of which I have owned or driven extensively. Or do you want to tell your friends in the US you rented a Focus for half a year?
The rules:
Do not buy diesel. In your price range, a diesel will have 200k plus kilometers on the odometer. The technolgy is much more intricate than a gas engine. Engine fixes – likely to be needed in your price range – will double your budget.
Only buy well-serviced („scheckheftgepflegt“) cars with service records. The difference between a well-serviced and a barely serviced model in your price range is barely 500 euros. Money invested in repairs is not reflected in the asking price when it comes to beaters.
(This is particularly important, as most used cars in Germanyhave had their odometers messed with to the average damage of 4000 euro per sale. So avoid getting screwed and only buy a car with a history.)
Buy a car with a green emission sticker if you want to drive in German cities. Few old Diesels get that, however, every gasoline powered car past 1990, sometimes even older, has one.
Only buy a car with at least 12 month of valid „TÜV“ – that way, you won’t have to undergo the tough state regulated inspections and it will be much more attractive to the buyer when you sell it.
The models:
Citroen Xantia. Has been recommended frequently here already. I drove one for several years all across Europe and it never let me down. The hydropneumatic suspension is something else – a magic french carpet ride, designed by Italian genius Bertone.
Unlike its reputation, it’s reliability is quite above average. Get a „late“ model (1999) station wagon with lots of airbags and an electronic stability program for your pieve of mind, or an early model notchback stripper for design purity.
Get a weird Euro-only 90ies Toyota. The Carina E has legendary reliability. Also, you are guaranteed to sell it off in 2 hours upon your departure as all of Africa and have of Russia is craving for these cars. Also, it is very frugal, due to special lean-burn engine tech. I drive one myself.
If you wanna kick it old school German, buy a Mercedes 190. It’s got the best reliability of all Mercs. It’s not oversized like an E-Class, so you won’t have a hard time parking it in those tight European cities or parking garages. It’s smallish, but it has a very advanced suspension and drives like the larger Benzes. My dad owned one for 5 years, only took it to the shop but once! Also: You are sure to get your money back on the sale as prices for the little Merc have been on the rise for some time.
If you wanna go all Italian dynamite and beauty, go Alfa Romeo 156. Reliability is better than with most Italians, there are quite a few on the roads here. Throaty, high-revving twin-cam four bangers, one of the best front-drivers ever build, she is quite the looker, too.
Get French and freaky. Buy a weird large car, preferably Renault Vel Satis or Avantime, or the cheaper, statelier Peugeot 605. You only live in Germany once, and self-driving cars will be an anachronism in like ten years, so live a little.
Where you find them:
check the search engines for „Gebrauchtwagensuche“ (search for used cars). Have google translate them. For more details or help, you can contact me through my car blogs impressum.
If you need any help, I will happily look at ads and give you my two cents on it.
If you live in Berlin or close by, I can accompany you for test drives if you need local support.
Bottomline:
In the 2500 Euro price range, you can get a reliable, safe and unique car that will get you around in comfort, safety and style – gentleman, start your search engine!