My parents bought their home in 1976, when I was nine. One set of next-door neighbors were salt-of-the-earth types. The mother went to Mass every single morning; they’d give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. At the time, their oldest son drove this 1972 Plymouth Satellite coupe. He parked it not far from my bedroom window, and I remember hearing its engine burble when he came home way too late at night. That stopped sometime in the mid-80s; I assumed he sold it.
That family still lives there. When you’re neighbors with a family for going on 40 years, you get to know all of their quirks. Their main quirk is that they don’t throw things away – their garage is filled to the rafters with junk. Their second quirk is that their kids never seem to leave home. Both sons are over 50 now, and they still live with their mother. When my parents’ other next-door neighbors retired and moved away 10 years ago, the aforementioned older son bought their house. He doesn’t live in it, mind you; he still lives with his mom. He just keeps junk in his house and parks his three cars there.
Turns out the Satellite wasn’t gone. As soon as he bought the house, it appeared in the driveway, right under my mom’s kitchen window. It must move sometimes, because an equally junky early-80s Buick occasionally appears in front of it in the driveway. It’s plausible, I guess, that the Satellite could move under its own power; it does have good rubber on it. But my dad is almost always home, and he says he’s never heard the Satellite running or seen it moving. And regardless of where the Buick is, the Satellite seems always to be in exactly the same spot.
To people like us who follow a site like Curbside Classic, a ’72 Satellite coupe, even one in rough shape, is a sight to behold. But to average, everyday people, this car is an eyesore. And for years now, my poor mom has had to look at it every time she’s worked in her kitchen. And now that my elderly parents are getting ready to downsize to a smaller home, they’re worried that the Satellite and even the Buick are going to chase away potential buyers.
There’s an old saying: My right to throw a punch ends at your nose. Over the years, dad has spoken with the owner many times, asking him to please garage or sell this car. The fellow is always polite and pleasant, but he has always simply refused. I even investigated the junk-car laws in my old hometown, but found them to be too weak to force this fellow to act. Last time I visited my parents, the Satellite was at least crudely covered with a tattered gray tarp that improved the view only marginally.
What do you say? At what point does a curbside classic become just an old junker?
May I respectfully suggest that the issue should not be when to change the label attached to the car, but rather the label attached to the OWNER. The car is a barn find that has been pulled out of the barn. Looks like someone threw a set of Hankooks on it recently, so there must have been some plans and some belief it was restorable (looks to be). Now, if the owner leaves it out there to rot, then the owner has gone from a car collector to a junk hoarder.
Eyesore? No, its a white trash lawn ornament.
That’s my feeling about it too. But to each his own.
When the body or frame become so badly rusted that the vehicle is no longer safe to operate.
My 1968 Mercury CougarXR7 has severe cracking of the shock towers- a common problem on Ford’s pony cars. Repair kits are available, but I just don’t have time to deal with it, which is why I’m selling it.
In the meantime, it’s in a storage facility well out of sight of any residental homes.
I would propose that some cars follow a reverse bell curve with regard to interest and popularity, and others just follow a curve that declines to zero.
Which curve you place a car on will depend on a lot of factors, as some folks would see this Satellite as something with a lot of potential, to be saved and restored or whatever. Others, just see it as an eyesore, as your story intimates.
My ’82 Cavalier ended its life ingloriously by being towed away from our apartment parking lot by the City (junk car law), as I had no funds to get it running again, nor to put it into storage. I simply had no options at that time. It was definitely an eyesore (partially disassembled, covered in tree sap, etc.), so I can see it from both sides. I would have loved to have gotten it going again (I was setting it up to autocross), but things just didn’t work out that way.
I think this is a great parts car and worthy of being saved. Just not six feet from my mom’s kitchen window!
Hard to imagine local laws allow an unlicensed, un-driven car to stay parked forever.
Here a car has to be plated and driven… or tagged & fined $$.. even if it’s sitting in your driveway.
Not here. It’s a bit hard to imagine not being able to keep an unlicensed car in the driveway.
These are difficult issues, and much depends on prevailing “community values”, to the extent that they’re shared. Driveways with old cars are common and tolerated 9celebrated?) in some parts of town, but wouldn’t be in others. I don’t think there’s really an answer to the question, unfortunately.
The city where I live passed an ordinance a few years ago restricting yard-parked old cars, but I’m pretty sure you can park damned near anything, plates or not, on a paved driveway. I don’t have a beef with that, but I’m also been known to let my grass grow a little long from time to time.
When visiting my sister in Seattle, I was surprised to see cars with no plates parked on the street (including some I posted to the Cohort). That will get you towed here.
Anything unregistered or un warranted cant be parked on the street here so its the driveway or no way, one place near me has a V12 BMW 7 450 Benz and a Holden Caprice DEAD in the drive, new purchase value of those cars far exceeds the 350k the house is worth. hell the BMW was over 200k here new and a good one costs 3-5k now. All of them are now good for rebar @$90 per tonne.
cool- I would ask to sit in one of them
In Redmond, WA, the car must be operable (be able to start and move forward and backwards under its own power) or it is defined by ordinance as junk. At that point, the 30-day clock starts ticking – it either has to be garaged or completely concealed by fencing. This applies to private property.
But nothing says that you can’t have a really ugly car that runs and drives perfectly, just to really tick off those neighbors that keep calling the city on you (without so much as saying ‘hello’ or asking if they can help in any way). I sold that ugly car, BTW!
CougarXR7 has said it best as far as when an auto crosses the line.
On your particular example here, it doesn’t look too bad. There doesn’t appear to be a lot of rust and if it weren’t for the front suspension issues, it wouldn’t look too bad.
Your question is good although it could easily balloon into many other related questions that I won’t touch in this venue. Suffice it to say all locales have different philosophies on your question, as does each person, and there are distinct advantages to living out in the sticks!!!
“there are distinct advantages to living out in the sticks!!!”
+1
http://automotivemileposts.com/garage/v4n5.html
Here’s a few tips. Great site for sled fans BTW.
I think the guy has a point. In this case, despite the rust, a good cleaning, compounding and Simonize job and a set of wheel covers could go a long way in mitigating it’s property value-destroying propensities.
If the owner was that motivated he wouldn’t be living with his mom.
From as low as that front end sits, I would wager that the torsion bar anchors have rusted and given way. Body wise, it looks amazingly good for a midwestern early B body.
Tough question. I have an elderly neighbor down the street who hangs onto his old cars too. He built a sort of building in the backyard, but at least one 70s Mercury still sits outside. He is a very nice old guy, and the car belonged to his mother. But it sits outside and rots, as it has for at least 20 years. Fortunately for me, he is not right next door, and at his age, I will likely outlive the problem. But your parents’ situation is the opposite.
I am torn on this one. On the one hand, I believe that one of the greatest freedoms we have in this country is the right of private property. However, I also believe that these rights carry some kind of responsibility to maintain your property in a way that does not harm your neighbor. At common law, the concept of nuisance was used to balance these two ideas. Unfortunately, as time has gone on, the common-sense nuisance claim has become displaced by ever-more restrictive zoning laws and restrictive covenants, so that in some neighborhoods, you cannot even park your own new car in a driveway overnight.
There are enough TV shows now that deal with a range of these people. Are they “hoarders” or “collectors”. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference. Probably depends who you ask.
I’m generally a live-and-let-live kind of guy. I know these neighbors are quirky and keep stuff. My hope is that my parents can work out an amicable, even if temporary, solution that gets his junk cars out of that driveway while my parents have the house listed for sale.
They need to be careful with that. As a Realtor, I am well aware of disclosure laws. If there is something that “temporarily” takes care of an issue but then is agreed can come back and if that is not disclosed, your parents can have a real issue on their hands.
If your parents think the car/neighbor is a problem and don’t like it, then it is reasonable to assume that the average buyer would feel the same about the situation. Better to have a real heart to heart with the neighbor and get him to agree to remove the stuff. Barring that, build a fence. If they truly don’t care about the neighborly relations going forward, then discuss the property value with a few realtors and get written opinions with the neighbor as is vs. with the stuff removed and then suggest to the neighbor that you will come after him for the diminished property value. Unlikely to win that in court, but certainly a pressure point.
At that point, it would be easier to wash and wax the Plymouth yourself.
Couldn’t have said it better myself…
Maybe sell the house to the other son?
Hey! That might be the perfect solution!
When it passes the point of being an economical restoration.I thought Mopar styling took a step back with the 71 and later B body cars
Gem, considering what parts and labor cost nowadays, I strongly suspect that there is no such thing as an economical restoration.
I’m glad I live out in the country, and in a place that doesn’t have either covenants or laws re inoperative cars. But I’m the kind of a guy who seldom has non-operable cars around the place anyway.
I do remember the time we moved into the first finished house in a new subdivision. At the time I had seven cars, and I’m sure the builder and the Realtor both wished that someone else had moved in there instead.
Paul had a go at me for mentioning end of life cars and driving them into the ground, however that old Satelite while being an eyesore to you is worth big bux here as a collectable, old US cars in worse condition than that are having 10k or more put on them as restoration candidates in NZ. I have a dead spares car in my driveway and since last WOF inspection my pet car failed on trunions I harvested all the lower suspension arms for the unobtainium pieces I needed I guess it has now become junk and will go for scrap as it is of no further use. Just a shame the space it frees up couldnt fit that blue coupe Id take it away I like it and would love it as a Maori mushroom.
That’s exactly what the parts truck in my photo above was for. I harvested parts off it for about two years before taking the carcass to the scrap yard.
No-one complained out here, though (closest neighbor is a mile away, and he has a *lot* more “junk” in his yard than I do!).
Actually, I should retract that, as my wife did complain a bit. (c:
My landlord is my neighbour a nice Chinese guy, he has mentioned my parts car I told him its not permanent and he’s seen the other one go from total wreck to driving car so if he isnt stressed about it neither am I.
I moved from a big city to a small town. One of the things I liked was that you are allowed to park a couple of beater and heaven forbid an RV (hooked up even) or a boat without getting fined or towed. Apparently enough yuppies haven’t moved here yet to spoil it for us car guys…
The house needs to be listed for sale at the start of the snow season. ANYthing looks good and pretty with a foot of snow on it.
Your other option is to make the man a cash offer for his vehicle. And than scrap it for the $400/ton or whatever it is that metal is going for these days. However the man may then purchase a new “collectible”…
The third option is a nice, new, tall wooden fence. A set of window blinds on the kitchen window wouldn’t be out of place either.
This guy seems to fit the typical demographic.
“Ain’t sellin’ er at any price, cash money er nothin”
“These here Mopar cores are a worth a bundle all fixed up nice”
“i’m gettin’ promoted to loading dock foreman at the vinegar plant next month, then you just wait & see her then”
I know if I was in charge of vehicle procurement for Hollywood TV and movie concerns, this would be the Methhead’s ride.
And the unstable militia-types would be in an old Ramcharger. 🙂
Heavan forbid! Ramchargers are the exclusive domain of Chuck Norris:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQkyi1_l6po
Put the militia types in a generic farm pickup, while Chuck chases them down in the Ramcharger.
Did anyone answer the basic question if it was tagged and insured? In most jurisdictions, if a car is duly registered and insured (including passing inspection if the area has it) that is pretty much the ball game. Most places with restrictive ordinances about parking on the lawns usually applies to the front. One or two cars around in the backyard usually is not an actionable cause unless the person is running a business or making strange/loud noises at inappropriate times. HOAs and the like are usually applicable to newer developments and townhomes etc it looks as though this neighborhood is pretty old so probably just falls under local ordinances.
H*ll that car is better to look at than some newer cars…
The car’s plates were expired last time I was in town. No idea whether it’s insured. The junk-car laws there would get this thing towed in a minute if it were on the street, but in the driveway it’s untouchable. Where I live now, I could have it towed from his driveway given these conditions. There is no HOA here; this neighborhood is on the good old-fashioned city grid.
The other side of the coin would be the restrictive neighborhood association and condo committees and their rules/regulations. I am real sure that I prefer the junkers.
My 210 still awaits my finishing my house before I devote time and dollars to it. Anyone who chose to complain would hate the result. I agree with blinds and a fence. I lived for 13 years in The Woodlands (north Houston Yuppieville) where my dog house and the color of my garage door consumed much time dealing with bureaucrats. Never again.
I’m no fan of HOAs either. My neighborhood isn’t subject to one, and I have one neighbor who cuts his grass three times a year whether it needs it or not, and there’s a basketball goal (the kind on a moveable base) that sits at the curb in front of one house where the kids play pickup in the street. It’s not ideal, but it’s way better than my buddy who lived about a mile away in a neighborhood with an HOA where every last thing he wanted to do had to be approved.
I, thankfully, live in a HOA-free neighborhood. I hate HOA’s way more than a quirky neighbor.
I would be tempted to approach the Satellite owner to see if he or someone in his family would be a prospective buyer of the house. One stone, two birds….
never, thats when, not so long as there is love for the iron
Jim, I’m now thinking about this from a different view, primarily trying to sell real estate.
I have alluded to it a few times, but I’ve got a house that has been for sale for 17 months. This is the third house I have owned. The entire experience has been something I wouldn’t wish on somebody I hated.
From my experience, that Plymouth, while a supreme annoyance, may not have any influence in how quick your parent’s house sells. The degree of superficiality I have endured by buyers is extreme and has never gone outside the four walls of the house. What makes sense to you and I, as sellers, may not even occur to the buyer.
Case in point: My house backs up the woods and needs nothing yet the next door neighbors, in an overblown concern about erosion, have half their yard covered in fist sized rock. Overall feedback? Your upstairs windows aren’t new, your house is old (built in ’77), you need new siding (the house is brick), we don’t like the color you painted the living room, blah, blah, blah.
The entire time this house has been for sale, I’ve had my ’63 Galaxie in the garage. Never a word about it. For half the time the house has been for sale, the Galaxie has been accompanied by a 2000 Ford E-150 which in combination do a darn good job of filling the garage. Again, never a word.
I fully, truly, and completely understand, respect, and can relate to your dilemma. However, based upon the breathtaking degree of shallowness many buyers tend to exhibit (I had similar when selling the other two houses) I suspect it may not be a huge determining factor for somebody. If it was a barking dog, well, that might be a different story…
I’ve only sold two houses in my life, my parents’ and a widowed aunt’s. My parents’ house literally was given away for 27K, condition was an issue which was understandable. It was put in sterling condition by a flipper and the guy made a great deal of money when he sold it.
However, my aunt’s home was in excellent original condition. A ranch built in 1955, no children were ever raised in it. When my aunt passed, I put a great deal of money into the home, with the intension of living there. New plumbing, furnace, water heater, electrical updates, new sewage system were only a few major items I can think of. Painting the entire inside made the original home downright beautiful.
When I gave it to a realtor to sell, it didn’t make the public listing. One of her friends bought it, no money down with me paying for the closing costs. A HUD loan, a detailed inspection was required. The inspection netted no major flaws, but I was given a laundry list of stuff that was MY responsibility to repair. Foolish things like some electrical outlets with no ground. Faucets with a minor drip, a 2″ crack on a picture window that would cause thousands to replace. The ultimate was that although the plumbing was all copper, an outside supply had lead pipe. My responsibilty, I was told.
I finally told the realtor to tell her client that I was going to board up the house, and keep it just for the garage. The house became acceptable at that point, and sold. I ended up losing several thousand on the deal, but couldn’t keep two houses.
Ifi ever buy another house, I will make sure I sell my house before I buy another. Realtors work for the buyers and themselves.
“When I gave it to a realtor to sell, it didn’t make the public listing. One of her friends bought it, no money down with me paying for the closing costs. A HUD loan, a detailed inspection was required.”
Right there, there is a HUGE conflict of interest. HUGE RED FLAG. Your agent is representing both of you. And being a “friend” probably less representation for you. The Agent should have told you HUD, VA, FHA have different requirements for sales. A conventional sale can be less cost to a seller, and sold “As is” (everything negotiable), but a HUD/VA especially have requirements and costs to a seller, that are beneficial to the buyer.
Be your best own advocate, be it a doctor or a realtor. Never give up your person or property to others, physically or psychologically.
When does a curbside classic become just an old junker?
Go back and read the articles on this site. The cars are largely a vehicle for the Commentariat to tell stories jogged from our memories about the cars featured here or to tell the story of a car’s development if it is indeed interesting. Therefore the condition of the vehicle is largely immaterial as long as it is recognizable as the make/model/manufacturer that it is. We thrill at seeing them on the street because so few cars make it beyond a fixed amount of miles/time without becoming fully restored show queens that never actually get driven.
I guess I would postulate that to be a true Curbside Classic is one that can be driven. Now having said that I realize that we feature a variety of cars that do not fit that description for a variety of reasons.
What he said
So he lives elsewhere, but he doesn’t rent the house out? And elsewhere is with Mom? The owner of the Satellite has some interesting priorities. As for what the car might do to the property values in the neighborhood, I guess it just depends on the neighborhood and the neighbors. Some will take it as a good sign (Frugal, mechanically-inclined neighbors! How wonderful! Or, in my case, “Somebody to talk cars with!”). Others will see it as a deal-breaker. My own opinion is, as long as he’s not one of those hoarders who creates a fire hazard with old newspapers and perishable food, what the heck. At least it’s not a crack house.
If I were a potential buyer I wouldn’t bitch about what cars my neighbors have. I don’t like looking at the Acura MDX in my neighbors driveway either.
It all depends on the neighborhood. If every other house has a car on blocks it won’t matter, it’s part of the neighborhood and property values are depressed on the whole street/subdivision because of it anyway/already. If every other house is nicely maintained and the home for sale’s neighbor has all the junk cars in the driveway or never mows the lawn it will for sure be an issue. Most buyers will find something else to “dislike” about the house for sale as it is uncouth to comment on socio-demographic issues. As much as everyone hates HOA’s, this is precisely the reason that they started. There is nothing worse than a decent older neighborhood (not a vintage one where quirky is cool, just an older neighborhood) without an HOA and then someone paints their mid-60’s house Pepto-Bismol pink with Aqua trim and has a platoon of lawn flamingos with half of them fallen over. Instant deal killer for the poor schmuck across the street that bought his house thirty years ago and now wants to sell and retire to a condo in Florida.
There’s a big difference between cars on blocks on the streets than a complete car that’s on tires, has matching paint and in a driveway though. If this same car was registered/insured and regularly driven, would it still be considered an old eyesore that needs to disappear for the good of the neighborhood?
To me blaming the neighbors car for blowing a potential sale is a shallow excuse for poor staging on the part of the seller.
You are correct re: on blocks vs. movable, I had the impression (perhaps wrong) that the car in question has not moved in some time and was slowly sinking back onto the earth from whence it came. Looking at the pics again it seems like the tires are fairly new, but the sagging (broken?) front suspension makes me wonder about it…If it’s not even registered/insured then it might as well be on blocks.
Sure there is plenty the seller can do to make their own home attractive, but if the buyers consider a neighbors car an eyesore (which they well might, unless that is representative of the average car in the neighborhood) it will hurt the seller’s chances.
Plenty of people will drive by a home and by the fifth or sixth home showing in one day, if there is something external to object to, they may well say forget it, I’m not even going in to look at it. All the staging in the world won’t help if nobody sees it. These days before some people go out to look at a home, they often even Google Streetview it to get an idea of what is around a given home or behind it…
This was a BS issue the first time you aired it, and it remains a BS issue now. The neighbor has no obligation to provide your mom with an attractive view. Build a fence, hang curtains, or get over it.
It seems there are other issues beside the car storage. Your description of the family sounds interesting – not exactly the Cleavers – and the appearance of the inside of the house would be very telling, if the garage was in fact also stuffed full. There could be issues of hoarding, detachment disorder, etc. behind the immediate problem sitting in the driveway. Hoarders love to create “satellite” (excuse the pun) locations to store their treasures, which you have quite aptly described. I’d agree with installing a fence for starters, if nothing else to contain the junk sprawl that will eventually creep over the property line.
I note an early 80s Buick LeSabre in front of the Plymouth, which I assume is the one described as appearing and disappearing. My question: considering it’s a one lane driveway, how did the Buick get in front of the Plymouth if the Plymouth hasn’t moved?
The gentleman two doors down from me has a late 80s Corsica (under a tarp), a late 80s Excel, and a ’92 or ’93 Camry; those cars seemed to have little effect on the houses around it selling over the last year, although they probably qualify as Curbside Classics rather than junkers.
There’s a farmhouse I pass sometimes that has a third-gen Taurus sitting in the front yard that has been there since we moved here 11+ years ago. It has sunken in the dirt up to the floorpan.
I have a feeling it’s there to make a “statement” of some sort. I’ve seen a few other vehicles over the years (some with signage to that effect) that were very obvious “statements” about poor quality, lemon cars, etc.
At first I wondered why someone would abandon a car that was 3-6 years old at the time, but I remembered that in my area, there is a house with a Mazda3 with front end damage that has been sitting there since…2004-5, I think. (The Mazda3 was introduced for 2004, of course.) I’d love to know the story behind it.
Here’s a Google Street View from September 2008.
http://goo.gl/maps/da4Q3
I wondered that too, and said so in the article. The Buick doesn’t go in the garage; it’s full of junk. So the Plymouth has to move for the Buick to go in front of it. Thing is, my dad’s home 98% of the time and has never seen or heard the Plymouth move. So who knows!
If my neighbors each had a project car in their driveway, we’d probably get along fine (as long as they didn’t start asking to borrow my tools). Consequently, you’ll get no sympathy here, at least not over the car. Sounds like these people have other problems. Time to introduce another old saying which prior commenters have alluded to already: Good fences make good neighbors.
What happened to that 65 Custom 880?
It’s a 66 Newport town sedan. Was one of my parts cars. I cut it up with a sawzall. I considered making a trailer with the back half.
The closes I ever got to a Newport was a 1968 Sedan my maternal grandfather owned. He kept it until 1979 when they moved from their house to a senior oriented apartment. He was a big Chrysler fan and his last car was a Cordoba.
I fail to see how this car is offensive. Perhaps offer to buy it?
Interesting article as to the content within. An interesting dilemma. In today’s paper is a story of folks along the Conrail/New Jersey Transit RiverLine railroad. Seems the folks are upset over the light rail cars blowing their horns along the multiple crossing grades along the line, from 6 am to 10 pm, followed by some freight train traffic at night.
Now, for someone like me, I find the sound of an EMD V16 turbocharged diesel to be music in my ears, for most however, it’s just a noisy, smelly and loud beast. I do find the NJT light rail cars to be aurally annoying with their flat sounding horn. I can see and understand the frustration in the author’s writing. Personally, I’d love to be looking at a nice Mopar like this out the window. Probably would have made him an offer he couldn’t refuse, too……..and then commence a restoration of a B5 Blue RoadRunner clone!
Noise from trains is something else again. We moved into a little apartment in Sweet Home, Oregon, in 1963 after I got out of college. In the middle of the first night – slam, bang, crash – we woke up to an amber light flashing through the window – it turned out that they moved railroad cars on the siding behind the apartment practically every night. After about a week we were sleeping right through the racket.
Fifty years old and still living with Mommy? Sounds like Mom needs to kick her freeloading kids out!
A good friend of mine has an uncle in his late 80s, and guess what? The uncle’s son, who has to be 60 by now, still lives with his parents. He has never held a real job (maybe a paper route 50 years ago), and his frail parents still support him. He spends his time adding airbrushed murals to his mid-’80s Fox Cougar (we jokingly call it the FTD-mobile, but it’s not funny, it’s pathetic), writing letters to the newspaper and running for mayor–no, I am not joking. It drives my friend crazy that his aunt and uncle keep enabling their son’s laziness all these years.
When his parents go to their reward, the son is going to be royally screwed. Even if he inherits the house, he’ll have no income for maintenance and taxes.
For the better part of a decade, a bedroom in my house overlooked the junk-filled back yard of my neighbors — a wonderful elderly couple who lived with their 55-year-old son.
The son was mentally ill and was unable to live alone. And the family had enough going on that they didn’t need to hear my complaints about the mess in their back yard. It included old construction materials, a scary looking camper, and what looked from a distance to be a not-worth-the-effort 1968 Dodge Coronet. I really couldn’t tell what the car was because it was underneath a tattered car cover. But judging that the other two vehicles in the back yard — a 1982 New Yorker and a 1978 Chevy panel van — I figured the covered car was another lack-luster sedan.
The couple died and the son moved away, so relatives sold off what they could in the back yard. A asked them what exactly was underneath that car cover. I was right about the year and manufacturer — indeed, it was a 1968 Mopar product. But it was a Roadrunner with a 383 and a four speed transmission. The guy who mowed the lawn got it for nothing. Sigh.
wow had one looked just like that one I would buy it in a flash one sexy car and you cant tell someone what to do with there car on there drive way not cool maybe he don’t like your pirus