When my son turned sixteen, he, like many teenagers, wanted a car of his own. Unlike his older brother he did not want to go the reasonable and conventional path with a fuel efficient and used compact car (Mazda 3 hatchback). Instead, he wanted something a little unique and less than practical. I guess the apple does not fall far from the tree in this regard.
Due to factors and reasons of unknown origins he only had eyes for a Pontiac Fiero. Ronald Finger’s Fiero “real person, basic tools” restoration series certainly feed the Fiero project passion further. Unlike most folks, both he and I liked the notchback over the later fastback body style. Having briefly owned a 2.5l four cylinder powered (a stretch to say powered) Chevrolet S10, I steered him towards a V6 car. One of his other requirements was a manual transmission, further narrowing the pool of available cars. Like many teenagers he had more dream capacity than budget, so we would be shopping the lower end of the market.
I was immediately on board as I have never owned a Fiero but had always been intrigued by them. Additionally, I had no project car at the current time. We would be looking for one that needed some work but not a total disaster. I am a firm believer that if he has both sweat and monetary equity into a car it will be well taken care of. In the meantime I remembered I had a Hot Wheels Fiero which I passed on to him.
The first step was a set of tools for his birthday. A basic socket set, wrenches, screwdrivers and electrical tester. Once my wife was reluctantly won over (or worn down) the search started in earnest.
Pontiac Fieros used to be reasonably common but this is no longer the case. Most survivors for sale were higher priced but perfect examples, or parts cars masquerading as viable projects. First up was a local 1984 model which was a four cylinder car and to me felt a little pricey at $3,500. I figured it was worth a look to make sure Fieros were really what he wanted. The seller was friendly and accommodating as we set out on a test drive.
The body was in great shape but the interior had been customized with paint. It had good tires but on aftermarket rims. The engine ran well but the gearbox shifted stiffly and oddly, although it seemed to get better as we drove. I urged him to pass on this example, which he reluctantly did. He still loved the idea of a Fiero so the search continued.
I found a few Fieros for sale midway through an engine swap. One with a Cadillac 4.9L V8 and the other with a Quad4. Exciting, but a very poor choice for a first project car.
A friend of mine let me know of a Fiero at a used car lot in a nearby town which is not my preferred place to buy a cheap car but still worth a look. He sent some photos with what looked like frost on the body. Once viewed in person it became immediately clear that it was actually horribly faded paint from sitting outside in the sun. The tires had good tread but were dry rotted out. The good news was that it was a GT model which meant a V6 engine. It had a manual transmission but only a four speed since it was a 1985 model when GM did not have a strong enough transverse five speed gearbox for the six cylinder engine. The price was $3,200 which, given the body condition, felt high.
Next on the list was another 1985 GT which we had to travel to Calgary in order to view. From the photos the body and interior looked good but it too had been sitting a long time. Once investigated in person the car was pretty rough mechanically with a missing radiator as well as unknown engine, rusty brakes and suspension. It was all doable but a rather more work than I had hoped for. The seller shared a story about a mystery axle alignment that her handy father could not find parts to fix. For me this meant it was a hard pass on this one with a $2,000 asking price. These are harder to find than I recall! And more expensive than I initially thought. Or I am just frugal?
To lick our wounds we got lunch and headed to a nearby scrapyard. I could give him a bit more of an overview of what work the white car would have required on a semi dissembled example in the yard. Luckily they had three Fieros in stock. All were 1984s with four cylinders and four speeds. One had quite a nice body in red.
On the ride home my son an inspired thought. We could buy the red 85 GT at the used car lot with the bad paint, grab the good body panels from the scrapyard and have a decent car. On a Fiero all body panels bolt onto a steel spaceframe making for easy body panel replacement. Unfortunately it had been several weeks so we both misremembered the price as lower than it was in reality. But the concept was sound, at least, to me.
We made an appointment to see the 1985 GT the following Monday. The lot was an interesting one with many cars packed densely in. To drive it, the owner would have had to move about 20 cars so we initially agreed to just an engine start up as a first step. With a battery boost it started up and ran … for a few minutes. It felt like it ran out of fuel to me and I told they seller as much. He disagreed and who was I to argue as it was his car. The strategy shifted to a potential as-is offer. When it ran the engine did not knock, did not appear to leak badly, coolant tubes were in good shape, so we came to an agreement on a price including delivery, which was a bit of risk. Hopefully we could get it running again without too much expense and nothing else major was wrong with it. Check in the next installment to see if the gamble paid off.
The ’85 GT with 4-speed might ultimately end up being a better find than a later 6 cylinder with the 5 speed.
Back in the late 80’s I had a friend who owned an ’86 SE V6 with a 5-speed. I can’t recall whether it was actually the transmission or clutches that it went through like clockwork, but the car spent a lot of time at the dealership for warranty work. I seem to recall that the consensus at the time was that whatever the failing component was, it was an early-in-the-run use of it, and as such it was more prone to failure than later models with an upgrade.
You might be right. The four speed is a Muncie box and I believe there were two different 5 speeds. Apparently the hot ticket is the five speed from the sporty Chevrolet Beretta.
Cool, I always enjoy reading about your projects!
A fine start DS,
Too bad I didn’t know about your quest last year, when a friend of mine sold his notchback V6 4speed Fiero for quite a low price. It had some engine issues but was otherwise in excellent condition, having never been driven in the winter.
Looking forward to seeing how this pans out.
That would have been a good prospect. Likely the shipping/out of province costs would have made it quite a bit more expensive.
I’m very interested in this series. Twenty years ago I had the same thoughts for a Fiero project. But at the time I thought asking prices were too high. Fiero enthusiasts value these cars highly but the general population considered them to be unreliable lemons. So most examples were expensive but didn’t sell, and the sellers refused to cut the price, because they couldn’t imagine no one wants their beloved car.
I bought a 4cyl 4 spd Fiero SE, well optioned for $160. Yes, one hundred and sixty bucks. It was in excellent shape except it needed a clutch. I quickly discovered one needed a hoist to drop the driveline cradle from the car before removing the engine. This was beyond my skills or finances at the time. A friend desperately wanted the car and bought it for $400. He never fixed it and sold it to a Toronto television production company. They blew it as part of their on screen special effects.
I really wanted a V6 so it didn’t make sense to invest big money in a 4. However I recall some people swapped a 3 liter GM marine 4 cyl. These are not the Iron Duke, but a different design, I have one in my boat. They are super strong and can tolerate all kinds of power adding foolishness.
Eventually I bought a 84 Supra instead of another Fiero and I’m happy with it. But a Fiero is still a cool ride.
There is a special tool to support the engine if taking just the gearbox but it isn’t as easy to do a clutch as one would suspect.
A piece of lumber, pipe or angle iron will also do the trick as does an engine hoist.
I think it is more to due with transmission being a key engine mount.
We know time marches on when it is now Saunders Jr who is going to be holding most of the wrenches on this one. Having spent time overseeing an 89 Grand Marquis owned by a kid, I am sure you will have a great combination of enjoyment and exasperation.
I look forward to the next installment.
If I had the wherewithal for a project car, a manual-transmission, V6 Fiero (with t-top roof) would be high on the list. Thanks to the bolt-on body panels, I’d first be sure I could get one of the Ferrari 308 body kits. Those Fiero 308s really look like the real thing, particularly with the t-top roof, and would seem to be a whole lot easier (and cheaper) to keep on the road than the real thing.
I’d first be sure I could get one of the Ferrari 308 body kits.
Me thinks you’re about 15-20 years too late for that.
Plus, it was such a good match, i think the kit makers were sued by Ferrari.
They look too bulky in the midsection. I personally think the Fiero has a more cheesy reputation than it deserves because of the Ferrari kits based on it. VWs had some really really bad ugly kits for them, but save for a few 356 replicas (which…. even knowing the major differences between them, there is an intrinsic similarity and connection) most kits adopted their own persona like Dune buggys or the Bradley GT. Trying to legitimately fool passers by that a Pontiac with a mail truck engine is a Ferrari is a bridge too far, no matter how convincing it is.
Besides, the Fiero styling is cool as is. I understand and partake in the derision for many under the skin aspects of it, but I always thought it was a good looking sports car from GM at this point.
There is someone selling wide body kits (not Ferrari rip-offs) which can look good with some attention to fitment/car ride height/wheel/tire size. Or one could fit any generic arch extensions. Always thought these cars needed bigger/wider wheels tires and a lowering job anyway.
http://www.v8archie.us/widebody-kits.html
https://www.ebay.de/itm/4Pcs-Universal-JDM-Fender-Flares-New-School-Wheel-Arches-ABS-60mm-80mm-Width/392905819478?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D228414%26meid%3D04d38f9c2a13405f85f73da1be819aa3%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D372702843932%26itm%3D392905819478%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithDarwoV3BBEV2b%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
Those cars and kits are also referred to as “Fauxrraris.”
Our first DS project? Looking forward as always to your project write-ups.
In this case, does DS stand for David Saunders, or Deadly Sin? 🙂
Nice project, and what a cool first car. I always liked the Fiero a lot, but overhere in Europe they were hard to find, and most examples for sale now are nothing more then barely driving wrecks, so I guess I will never have one myself.
Did a quick search, and to be honest, there are some nice ones for sale all over Europe. But expect at least 8K for a reasonable one, and 20K for real good examples. Wow. So still no Fiero for me.
3 here in Austria all below or slightly more than €6K. And in these COVID-19 days, it’s a buyers’ market, so haggle.
https://www.willhaben.at/iad/gebrauchtwagen/d/auto/pontiac-fiero-finale-392686665/
https://www.willhaben.at/iad/gebrauchtwagen/d/auto/pontiac-fiero-gt-2-8-396304614/
https://www.willhaben.at/iad/gebrauchtwagen/d/auto/pontiac-fiero-gt-395572997/
Interesting that those are all modified rather heavily — I wouldn’t have guessed that modified Fieros would have been popular in Europe. Also, the first example is right-hand-drive, which I likewise didn’t know existed.
On the third example, the seller has a pair of Pontiac Trans Sport minivan doors in the background. I guess he’s a big Pontiac fan!
I actually saw a white one at work yesterday.
Can’t wait to see how this series shakes out!
I always wanted a Fiero, too. As a kid in the 80s, they had a funky, mini Ferrari vibe about them. Some readers are going to laugh at that, but these were sexy looking cars! I’ll never forget the ad with Hall and Oates looking slick as hell posing with a red ’85.
Later, as I grew older and learned about the Fiero’s quirks and the fact that they were saddled with Iron Dukes, my interest waned.
Nevertheless, I still think they have an iconic presence and a lot of panache. In some respects they also remind me of the DeLorean, which was more show than go, but still classic and iconic.
I have seen some of Ronald Finger’s videos on the restoration of his Fiero. He makes it look easy. I have a feeling that Saunders and son are going to do the same 😉
My boy calls the Fiero the thinking man’s Ferrari. 🙂
Looking forward to your next installment.
A dam failed in Michigan a few months ago. One of the casualties was a guy’s personal Fiero collection.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/21/pontiac-fiero-collection-destroyed-midland-edenville-dam-flooding/5234159002/
I saw that as it happened. Very sad. They had a parts business and gave away a bunch of cars/inventory after the flood.
I had an 85 GT as my first car back in the 90s. I always prefer to look at the fastback but I didn’t know it existed until after I purchased mine. Keep in mind the six-cylinder had a factory recall for defective headers. So a lot of cars did not get that recall done. Keep an eye out for that. Also a neat little trick that I did was remove the spare tire and port to 3 inch holes through the firewall. I’ve then installed a 10 inch SAS base tube underneath the hood where the spare tire used to be. I was able to utilize a five channel amp with a 4 by 10s in The dash. And then I wired up the Speakers in the head rest with a cross over so they didn’t put out too much of a higher volume. Keep in mind if you don’t like the look of the notch back you could always bought the fastback tail and rear lights on to the body of the 85
Whenever I read a story like this, I sort of shake my head in wonder that my folks let me drive what I picked as a teenager in the early 1990s: a 1965 Valiant. It had safety glass and lap belts, and Chrysler’s “Safety Rim” wheels that did a better job than others’ wheels of keeping hold of a flat tire, but beyond that it had absolutely zero safety engineering. No collapsible steering column, no shoulder belts, no crumple zones, no head restraints, no roof crush strength to speak of, no side-impact guard beams, all kinds of severe injury threats in the interior (the door handles and window cranks would’ve finished off my left knee, for example), and I could go on and on.
Anyone who knew anything about traffic safety would have rightly called it unroadworthy in general by the standards of the early ’90s, and a negligent, especially hazardous choice for a new driver. But while they nixed my idea of importing a right-hooker Valiant from Australia, mom and dad had no qualm about my driving a car most of three decades behind the state of the safety art. I got away with it unscathed, but only by luck.
An 80s car is probably comparable in 2020 to a 60s one in the 90s safety feature and age wise but overall even the 80s ones is still miles better.
These stories are why i read this blog every day. TY
For sale 87 (904-662-9430
Back when I was in college and trying to keep my ’74 Datsun running, in 1979 my Father bought me a Craftsman tool kit for Christmas…well, of course I no longer have the ’74 Datsun, but that ’79 tool kit became the basis for my current tools (which might not be impressive to some, but I do have some special tools acquired when I needed to do some procedure for the first time..some went on to be used multiple times (not all, alas).
Anyhow, regarding the Fiero…my former co-worker and friend now lives in Colorado, got a Fiero as a “fun” car a few years back. He’s also got an NC controlled milling machine in his garage (none of his cars get to reside there)…has made some parts that he’s otherwise been unable to get in the wrecking yard. He sent me some photos of his car:
Wanna know something funny? That white 85 gt I bought for 450. I’ll leave a few pictures of what it looks like now. It’s currently being prepped for a 3800sc swap