Ten years before the VW bus was conceived, White was a building a delivery van with a rear aircooled boxer four, built by Franklin, and based on one of their aircraft engines. But no swing axles. For that matter, I’m not quite sure how that rear suspension works, as it looks like there’s no room for a drive shaft. Is it all one rigid unit with a pivot in front for the engine?
That’s what it looks like, from this picture, the best I could find, of the drive train. Looks like a rigid unit from engine, transmission and rear axle. So there must be a pivot or some sort of flexible mount at the front of the engine.
WOW! I have never heard of these. Even when I sold White GMC’s this was not part of the history of the company that was given to us. Thanks, Paul!
Same here. This is unique. I’m surprised I’ve not heard about this drivetrain before.
With those massive heavy-duty split rim wheels it was seriously overbuilt for its’ cubic volume, targeted for milk delivery. Neither of the ads here mention price but I’d expect it was a fair bit more than a Ford or Chevy half-ton. That seems to be why White’s offering languishes in obscurity while VW cracked the code a decade later, using passenger-car-grade components to build a general-purpose truck at low cost.
@NLPNT ;
VW did _not_ use passenger car components in their robust 3/4 ton Typ II vans ! .
if you’ve ever worked on one or simply looked underneath one you’d know this .
Like this clever P Van they were designed for serious hauling, that’s why they were so damn slow .
-Nate
The ‘new load protection’ picture shows that the entire chassis flexes under the unibody. It appears that the axle can also rotate around the driveshaft to some extent, beyond the movement of the chassis.
White did air cooling the correct way, with the fan mounted on the driveshaft. Earlier air-cooled engines in the 1905 era also did it that way. VW spoiled air cooling by belt-driving the fan, and GM made it even worse on the Corvair.
Rectified with the VW Type 4 engine.
Type 3 first.
True. Neither had a fan belt.
Crankshaft, not driveshaft.
From other ads, I seem to recall the driver had to stand as well, rather like a streetcar motorman.
It was not unusual for a delivery truck (think milk man) to have stand up controls. I drove an old Divco once standing up, what a riot. It saves your knees from bending at every house you deliver to.
Yes, most walk-in delivery vans had controls that were usable when both sitting or standing. Many row-crop tractors of similar vintage did as well.
The power package pivoted around a ball joint in front.
It must have had a lot of unsprung weight.
Undoubtedly. But given its mission, which was low speed delivery service in town, that probably wasn’t much of an issue. But yes, that’s not a recipe that would work on a higher speed passenger cars. Even swing axles beat that.
Interesting. When I owned a Corvair I always wondered if someone had ever tried a rigid axle (non-independent) rear suspension with a rear engine, and assumed there was a technical reason that made such a setup impossible. Looks like that assumption was incorrect!
As I said in the comment above, it’s a doable solution for a low speed delivery van, but would not be suitable for a higher speed passenger car. There’s a good reason no on tried this on passenger cars.
I’ve wondered about a de Dion suspension with a rear engine. Fitting the de Dion tube around the engine and transaxle would probably be a challenge. It probably couldn’t be straight as on a Rover P6 or Alfetta.
Not sure what the 40-year breakthrough refers to, it’s basically a reconfiguration of the ’20s Pak-Age-Car plan.
The final drive carrier does have a White look to it. (rubs chin)
Not in terms of its drive train configuration. The Pak-Age-Car looks to have had a very sophisticated transaxle and double-jointed (non swing axle) rear suspension. Quite advanced.
Advanced indeed! That’s basically a 63 Corvette setup
Like the others, I have never heard of these. It is interesting that as many IH Metros and other vans of that type and era have survived with a fan base, that these have disappeared. But it seems like they figured out a really expensive way to do something that the Metro could do for a lot less.
Still, it is refreshing to see a rear engine design that doesn’t use swing axles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pak-Age-Car Lots of pics at Google.
An implication here is that the VW van/bus was used commercially. That’s news to me—though there must be examples. Examples ?
The VW van was very much used commercially, here and in Europe. In fact it was initially created/conceived as a commercial van, not a bus. The VW van/bus’ success as a light commercial van in the US is precisely why the Big three created their compact vans, to compete against it.
A point to be made concerning the stand-up delivery van model. Prior to this time, milk and other deliveries were done with horse and carriage. Typically the horse was smart enough to keep going to the next house when prompted with a vocal sound, so the operator didn’t have to get in and out of the carriage and could just walk along and grab what he needed thru the open back door. When these stand-up vans came out they were desirable, although they couldn’t proceed on their own at least you didn’t have to sit down and stand up thousands of times per day.
My great grandfather had a dairy delivery business to go with his dairy farm (early 20th century). Once there was an emergency and he was detained, and the horse went and completed the route and was waiting for him there.
I wouldn’t want to change the clutch in one of those!
Circa 1960 Tom Carvel used modified VW vans extensively to sell frozen custard in downstate New York. Never saw a Good Humor or other brand until I grew up. Kids would flag down the drivers. I’ll never forget the hilarious Carvel Ads on the Don Imus radio show. Anybody else remember these?
Tom Carvel? You betcha! A quick search finds out that they still make Fudgie the Whale.
The six-year-old in me now wants one.
Whoever did the voice on those Carvel commercials sounded drunk to me. Don’t forget Cookie Puss.
Very interesting and informative piece on a vehicle I have only seen pictures of. I had no idea about the mechanical specifications.
While you are on a delivery truck kick, how about a piece on the Dodge Route Van? Not quite as innovative as the White Horse, but interesting nonetheless.