Every time we write about the Renault Alliance here at Curbside Classic, at least one commenter wonders: “These things all suddenly disappeared from the roads in the early 90s. Where did they all go?”
I can tell you. Quapaw, Oklahoma.
(That’s kwaw-paw to you, bud.)
Have you ever noticed how once you’ve owned a particular car, you always notice them on the road? Because I owned one in the late 80s (read the story here), I immediately recognized these as they entered my peripheral vision.
This one looks like mine, an ’83 Alliance MT, which was a limited edition honoring the Car of the Year award that Motor Trend magazine (humorously, in retrospect) bestowed upon this hapless car. I think all Alliance MTs were painted this shade of gray, and mine had the same pin stripe, tan interior, and body-color wheels. I wished I could get closer to see for sure, but these Alliances were behind barbed wire. In Quapaw, Alliances are valuable items that must be protected.
Except for the flat tires, this Alliance DL looks whole, as if it might actually start.
This lot held a few vehicles other than Alliances, such as that Dodge Spirit and that ’60 Ford truck. But man, dig all those Alliance (and Encore) roofs lurking in the back row.
The mystery has been solved. The only question now is why. Do the people of Qapaw hope to make a killing selling parts to the burgeoning Alliance tuner crowd? Is the Qapaw mafia hiding the dead bodies in the trunks? (Really, who’d think to look there?) Or are they just hoarding them so none of the rest of us can have them? (That’ll teach us.)
We literally had 2 competing AMC/Jeep/Renault dealerships around the corner from each other in the 80’s here in Cranston, RI. (I actually worked for the remaining one when it was a Jeep only dealer from 2003 – 2006.) These competing dealers sold a lot of these Renault Alliances to the neighborhood residents – I saw them in all different colors and models. Then, all of a sudden, it seems as if they just disappeared. I don’t know what happened but one day they were gone. I had a friend that had a black coupe with the same rare alluminum wheels as the car in the first picture. He literally beat the crap out of that car yet it was very durable. He ended up getting hit in it and totaling it, ending its life somewhat prematurely. But I do remember riding in it and thinking it wasn’t that bad of a little car. Remember that at the time people were driving lots of Hyundai Excels and Plymouth Horizons – so the quality of the Renault always seemed to be much better than the competition.
I went to Wikipedia to check out official pronunciation of Quapaw, I’ve lived in Oklahoma nearly my whole life and have never heard anyone pronounce it that way. Granted I’ve never been to the city, but anyone talking about the Quapaw tribe I’ve heard it pronounced phonetically (Kwah-pah). But this is also the same state where our Miami is pronounced My-am-uh, so I wouldn’t put it past them to pronounce it weird. Anyway, that blue Alliance on the top can also be seen on their Wikipedia page, apparently that building is city hall.
Ok, so I assumed that the town would pronounce its name the same way that the tribe after which it is named does, and the Quapaw Web site lists “oh-gah-pah.” But a little more sleuthing suggests that the town natives say “kwaw-paw.” Soooo ok, I changed the article.
Like I said, I’ve lived here nearly my whole life, and I still mispronounce half the towns, so its perfectly understandable. Some of the Native American tribe and place names are as hard to say as any foreign words. Chickasha, Tahlequah, Oologah, Weleetka, etc. The difference between local pronunciation of a place and the correct pronunciation are often miles apart. Granted it’s Spanish, but I still wince when I hear locals pronounce a street named Sangre (Sawn-gray, more or less, in Spanish), but to us Okies it rhymes with hanger.
Ha. Similar to what those of us Back East do to French names. See: Versailles, PA (ver – SALES) and Calais, ME (CAL-us).
Don’t forget DuBois, PA (DOO-boys)…at least Duquesne survived without being Anglicized…”Doo-KANE” instead of Doo-KWEZ-nee”
A small town adjacent to the Quad Cities, Milan, is correctly pronounced MY-Lan–I kid you not.
Kind of like how Houston St. in NYC is pronounced HOWS-ton!
@chas108, I once worked with a Dubois – everyone called him Dubious. I was never sure if they were razzing him or not.
I’ve heard of Louisville “LEW-is-ville”, Colorado.
You all forgot Lima (LY-mah) Ohio.
There’s a small town called Louisville (Lewisville) Ohio, too.
Going the other way, there’s Lafayette (Laugh-yet) Louisiana.
Do you happen to know the name of this place ? Was wondering if he would sell parts off of them? If you go by that place anyone in town hit me up billspringxyz at yahoo dot com is best way to get ahold of me
Actually, that’s not city hall, it’s an auto repair shop. I know this because i was there last fall, buying parts for my fleet of Renaults
I’ve always been obsessed with how manufacturers handled the mirrors, moldings, door handles, exhaust outlets and wipers on a vehicle. I found early on that there was a strong correlation between how well these were done and what the vehicle offered in reliability and enjoyment.
So many failures on the Alliance. Those mirrors especially are a visual black hole and probably don’t even fold.
I’ve always been attentive to that sort of detail, too. But sometimes, it’s not true: all of the Hondas from the era which made the company a household name have horrible exhaust systems and pretty flimsy wipers. And try and find a ’90s Camry or Corolla without a missing door handle.
On the other hand, the Alliance and Medallion both seemed to have pretty stylish and robust door handles.
One frigid day the door handle on my Alliance pulled right off the daggone car when I tried to open the door. So as you might imagine, I’m going to disagree with you!
When researching the Edsel Show post, I found this little anecdote from Rosemary Clooney:
“The show was built around the newest Ford offering, the 1958 Edsel. A new vista of motoring pleasure, unlike any other car you’ve ever seen. The only Edsel I ever saw was one they gave me to drive while I was rehearsing. I came out of the CBS Building, up those little steps to the street where my purple Edsel was waiting, like the Normandie in drydock. Mr. Ford was right behind me, heading for his Edsel. I opened the door of my car and the handle came off. I turned to him, holding it out to him. “About your car…”
The execution on those parts tended to be a good predictor for how the car would do overall in satisfaction and longevity, not necessarily the particular part. It was the perceived quality (how it sounded, felt and functioned) not just the appearance.
By 84 the Civic wiper arms were black and parked just right, where they would blend into the surrounding black areas. The door handles had the lock cylinder built into the surround, unlike on the Alliance where it was separate on the door. The exhaust outlets used a finisher and were usually tucked under a cutout in the bumper.
On the first Accord the mirrors were of the same beefy flag type that Porsche used on the 911SC. By 82 Accord was using an intricate molded shape for the side moldings, as opposed to the extruded looking jobs on the Alliance.
Window frames on both the Civic and Accord had a blackout treatment for the vertical elements. The Alliance was still using fussy chrome moldings everywhere.
It’s not like the Honda products were newer or more expensive than the Alliance. Much of the superior execution had to do with a higher level of know-how / skill / talent, passion and rigor within the company. Culture is important too, as in how much priority does the company give to “attention to detail”. If you don’t believe customers notice, as was the case with the Big 3 for a long time, you are doomed.
The one exception to this general rule is for VW and Audi products.
Every time I hear someone wonder what happened to a particular type of car I think of the convoys in the picture. Every time I run down US 59 from Houston I see some variation of this. These two convoys have mexican tags on the tow vehicles and are headed south. There are three vehicles and a tow dolly in each.
Perhaps your missing alliances are taxis in Mexico. An old truck in good shape is the preferred vehicle to tow but I’ve been seeing all types lately. Obviously you can see more of them if you are headed north or sitting still but the pictures are harder to get. Someone must have a really really good used car business somewhere because the duty to get these in Mexico is very high I understand.
Now I am expecting to start seeing renault alliances headed north to Oklahoma. The ingeniousness of business is not to be underestimated.
That reminded me of what I saw when traveling to and from CA a couple of weeks ago. On the way down I passed a pair of Toyota Pickups each towing another Toyota Pickup with a fair amount of stuff in the bed of each one. They were really working hard while climbing the pass. We happened to stop for a break and passed them going down. Thankfully they were going just as slow on the way down since they were using strap on tow bars.
Then on the trip back there were 3 sets of them heading for CA though they weren’t loaded with household goods. I also ran across a couple of pairs of Ford trucks with the same set up but not traveling together the the Toyota Convoys.
In 2001 I put my ’88 Nissan King-cab V6 5mt on the side of 290 here in Houston. Not 20 minutes later I had a call to meet; by the time I drove the 5 minutes to it three different parties were there.
I sold it for $600 more than asking price. It was south of the border within 48 hours. It warms me to assume it’s still working the work someplace….
Well, if this guy needs parts.
I didnt know of a reason to save Renaults mostly they just die and crumble away, late model Renaults can be had very cheaply but as usual the purchase price is only the down the repairs will soon vacuum up any other money you may find
The only memorable thing I remember about Alliance and Encore was that they were the Kia of their day. Sold primarily to folks who were poor credit risks and thus financed with sub-prime loans.
Clutch and a head gasket every 2 years until it gets too expensive. Then they pile up in the scrap yards.
Heh, I put a clutch into my Renault at 70k. But no head gaskets.
George C. Scott was the Renault spokesman for a while. Not sure why I remember that. Maybe “Patton” was supposed to wrap some stars and stripes around the furrin name?
It’s more like Patton’s 1938 Cadillac 75 got wrapped around a GMC 2½-ton truck it collided with, or vice-versa. He died from his injuries. The story goes, he was looking at derelict cars (Curbside Classics?) along the side of the road & bemoaning all the waste of war.
There are a lot of rumors about how and why Patton died, from as simple as hitting his head on the glass partition of his Cadillac fracturing his neck leaving him paralyzed and to died eventually from complications to Russian agents poisoning him in the hospital. I suppose if there were seat belts in 1945 he might still be alive?
But getting Patton to *wear* seatbelts, that might’ve been a problem. It seems hard to square with his lead-from-the-front personality or his contemporaries like MacArthur, who, like Patton, were raised in a chivalrous masculine culture which thought nothing of taking ridiculous personal risks at times. MacArthur’s arrival at Atsugi, Japan, after the surrender was just one of these. His staff was terrified.
Road Atlanta used to have a class back in the ’80s for “street stock” Renaults. I think they ran open exhausts and had to have a roll cage, but that was it for mods.
Always saw a lot of daylight under the inside wheels at Turn 7.
The car dealer community in a given town often becomes somewhat close-knit even when they are officially competitors. My aunt’s best friend for many years was the daughter of one of the AMC dealers in Akron, OH GREEN AMC/JEEP/RENAULT. They started out as a Rambler dealer in the 1950s and concluded in 1988 after Chrysler swallowed AMC.
http://tinyurl.com/cjxcy3x The building has since been converted to other uses, but one of the AMC pillar signs still stands.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa255/tmbenvie/Misc%20AMC/GreenRambler-1.jpg
That same building in Rambler days you can see the sign post.
The last time I saw Ms. Green in 2010 she was still at it in the car business but the family as since moved on to peddling Fords. I am sure the late 1980s Renault Premier she once owned has been traded for something with a Blue Oval.
The fact that the Greens are affiliated with Ford now is a story unto itself. Trying to keep this tame and objective, the Greens were Jewish and it was widely known before WWII that Henry Ford was, shall we say, unfriendly to the Jewish community. Interestingly, when George Romney rose to the top of newly formed AMC in the 1950s, he was widely credited with his efforts to bring together the disparate business community in SE Detroit. So Mr. Green was able to purchase a Rambler franchise in 1957 and hence the story began. That was something of an anomaly at the time as car dealerships were dominated by white Protestants and Catholics (in those communities).
The pic below is a recent shot from a few years ago of the building which has an unknown current use but still sports the vintage “AMC SELECT USED CARS” sign.
Do you know which Ford store the Greens went to?
Park Ford, although I have no idea their extent of involvement now it’s been so many years.
My corner of the world, Cleveland’s West Side, was a big AMC customer base – all the European immigrants working blue-collar non-union jobs in small machine shops and such…they seemed to like 1960s Ramblers. One big dealer, Joe Erdillac (yup, makes you think of “Cadillac”) had a HUGE outlet – compared to most other AMC dealers. When Jeep joined the fold, he at first passed – then took them on as there was little else selling out of the AMC book.
He finally gave up and closed. The same month the Alliance came out. The Cleveland Plain Dealer auto writer interviewed him, and he was bitter. “We waited eight years for them to come up with something like that – and when we gave up and surrendered the franchise, here it is.”
Joe probably saved himself a lot of acid-reflux in his senior years; the Alliance hit the streets like the Titanic hit the iceberg.
And disappeared just as fast…taking AMC, Renault, and perhaps over time, Chrysler down with it. For Chrysler…adopted AMC prototypes; their managerial precepts, their Jeeps…and shared their fate, to be taken over, obliterated by a foreign company, and left for dead.
It was Joe Erdelac Motor Mart on Lorain Ave. He started out as a Rambler dealer then went AMC. Among things he was famous for doing up special cars:
http://www.carnutdirect.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=61
I feel that the AMC purchase by Chrysler actually had the opposite effect. It probably saved Chrysler from going stale in the 1990s. By the time these AMC DNA products came out in the early 1990s, Chrysler had just about played out the K-cars. Chrysler bought AMC primarily for Jeep, but as we know inherited all of the other assets most notably Francois Castaing and his great engineering crew. He revolutionized Highland Park and created all sort of product that Chrysler made a lot of money on. LH, Cloud Cars, Jeep Grand Cherokee, they were all AMC byproducts. They also picked up the brand new Brampton/Bramalea plant in Ontario that was originally supposed to produce the Eagle Premier but ended up producing the LH cars, the LX cars, and the Challenger.
I tend to think that Daimler mismanagement played an overt role in the bankruptcy of Chrysler among other things.
Could be…but, a lot of scribblers have had fun opining about the “Jeep Curse” – how it destroyed Bantam, Willys, Kaiser, American Motors, and finally Chrysler. What if, the bad blood comes from the OTHER side of the family tree?
Your spelling on Joe’s dealership is correct. It always made me think of Cadillac; so I guess, thirty-odd years after the fact, I re-spelled it.
It’s a U-Haul megastore now; or at least it was in 2008 when I moved elsewhere.
I came across Erdelac when I was digging up info on the Green’s. I imagine by the 1980s Joe was already aging as according to the Rambler archives he was Erdelac Buick until 1957 then went to Rambler/AMC.
From what I understand, AMC/Rambler was big in urban areas especially in the Midwest and East Coast. I guess they identified with the ‘independent’ nature of the marque. I know that was the case with Chrysler as well to a lesser extent. My MIL had a Rambler back in the early 60s before she picked up her Ford habit. She is of Hungarian-Irish descent from NJ.
http://route66rambler.com/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=ohio%2Fjoe_erdelac_amc
Among other things I have developed a bit of dealerbilia about old dealers and such.
Erdelac had also been a Studebaker dealer and had the last Avanti produced. He eventually donated the car to the Crawford Auto Museum in Cleveland where it is in original unrestored condition with less than 10,000 miles.
Yes, Henry Ford was a fairly rabid Anti Semite. He published some very nasty comments about the so called “international Zionist-Jewish conspiracy” in the Detroit Free Press in the mid `20s. He never really apologized, claiming he was “taken out of context” or misquoted, but he revealed his true self. Many Jews were offended-and rightly so,and for a long time they refused to buy Ford products. Also,in the mid `30s, Ford received an award from no other than Adolf Hitler,commending him on his industrial genius.
Make that “The Dearborn Independent”-not “Detroit Free Press”
I want those rims from the car of the first pic! beautiful
Back in the mid-’80’s a college instructor of mine bought a new Alliance. He must have been an AMC guy – before that he drove an old clapped-out Pacer. I can imagine the Alliance must have been a huge improvement.
Until it started disintegrating at 70k miles.
Gee Jim, you sure are stuck on this 70k thing, just how many Renaults have you owned?
I’ll take the Ford truck, or the washer (or is it a dryer?) just don’t stick me with an Alliance.
It likely did, though the last time I saw him in 1988 it still looked intact. I saw one get trashed in a movie (one of the last James Bond movies with Roger Moore, I think.) The entire rear half of the car got split away and Bond escaped driving the front half of the car. I haven’t seen a Renault product on the road in years – the last one I saw was an Eagle Premier that belonged to a friend of my wife’s sister back in the mid-Nineties.
Thats was in 1985’s a View to a Kill, but it really wasn’t an Alliance, it was Renaut 9, or whatever the Alliance was based on.
back in 1986 my dad bought a new RENAULT9 in Greece&still driving it without any major problems with over 300k km on clock,my question is why French cars oversease are more reliable than American models?head gasket problems can be caused by over heating&over heating has probably been caused by problems coming from emission system on us fed spec models(my quess)since at the time no vehicle in Greece came with emission system on it&you can still see many old French cars from 60s,70s&80s running happy on roads like PEUGEOT 404,504,604,505&RENAULT 4,5,9,11,21&MORE.
my old neighbor in Tucson still drives one of these in blue(sky)with over 350 k miles on it asked how is it possible for a French car to last that long,he said drive train (motor&transaxle)is from a 1992 Toyota corolla(totaled)that he pulled in 1996 with less than 70k miles on it.no wonder is still going strong&got same wheels as one in first photo.
That had to take a lot of crazy fabrication to put together and certainly wasn’t worth it yeah it’s a good drivetrain and all put putting it in an even crappier car than it came out of makes absolutely no sense at all. .
That is actually pretty cool, in my opinion. I’d personally love to do something like that or to somehow put a Honda b-series motor into an Mk2 Golf.
I had a chance to drive an Alliance once a week for 3 months, and the only thing I didn’t like was the steering wheel wasn’t centered right in front of me.