As many readers may know, I have flirted with 4×4 vans for some time. But the dream of a full sized 4×4 van has never really blossomed. I even owned one one but it was a project that never got off the ground. I thought my dreams of free-wheelin’ vandom were dashed without ten thousand bucks or more to buy a really good one until I found this one.
And one day there it was; I had been looking around and everyone wanted around four thousand bucks for a half (and I do mean half) decent one. I was pretty doubtful when I read the ad, but who knows, miracles can happen right? The guy said he thought it ran rough and would need a carburetor. I asked him if it was drivable and he said it drove just fine. Now, it was located in Medford which is two hundred and twenty nine miles away from me. So I asked him if he thought it would make the trip. He said he thought it would but it was a big gamble anyway, since he only drove it a few times a year for gold prospecting. I thought it over. I knew if I passed on it, I would kick myself later. But what if it blew up far away from home? I didn’t have the cash to have it towed back too. I decided to go for it.
I booked a ticket on the Gray Dog for very early Saturday morning. I packed a backpack full of the most common wrench sizes and other goodies. It was a long time since I last rode the bus. When I was growing up, my parents would move all over just for the hell of it. By my calculation, I have over one hundred thousand miles on the bus and at least twenty thousand on the train. Most of that was before I was even twelve. When I boarded the bus, a lot had changed. the driver was now behind a clear plastic partition like a stripper in a booth, but without the good parts. The bus looked very new and modern, and very European, even though it was not. But the seats were like torture devices, extraordinary rendition quality, really. My lord, I could never have rode all those miles I rode on old MCI’s and GMC’s in this piece of crap. Other than that, the bus was still the same. This one was bound for LA so it had the usual assortment of grifters, urchins, bums, and other jetsam. That, I was OK with, this being my old territory.
The bus ride was of course needlessly long and when I finally arrived I had a five mile or so walk ahead of me. The walk felt good after the “seats” had been tenderizing my rump for several hours. The house was easy to find and I saw the van right away. It was perfect, clean, straight, no rust, good tires, newer custom upholstery, CB, stereo system, etc. The man came out to meet me; he was an older, heavy set fellow we will call Max. Max was very nice and I could tell he had not sold a car in a long time. He said he had owned the van for several years and had had an engine put in it and had just had the transmission rebuilt at AAMCO.
We started it up and drove it around. It would not idle well, but it ran great. At some time someone had done a professional job on the upholstery. Unfortunately Max had put in some cheap conversion van seats, I really would have preferred the factory vinyl; oh well. We moved into the bargaining phase. I had not bought a return ticket so I was at a disadvantage. But I let Max know I was not adverse to waiting for the next bus. I thought the price was more than fair but I am a cheap-ass-jerk. We agreed on twenty two hundred and fifty dollars. I could see Max needed the money and I probably should not have even negotiated, but it’s in my blood.
The first thing I did was to find out where a service shop was to have the oil changed, chassis lubed, and tires aired up. I ended up at Sears and had said services performed.
After that I hit the road. I really had very little idea whether the van would make it back or not. It sounded like there was a little pinging in the engine but Max said it had always sounded that way. I noticed the exhaust manifolds were a bit odd so perhaps that explains it. Nonetheless, I went easy on her. I stopped and filled up the tank, which proved to be just enough fuel to get back. It was a long drive, but the van did have a good stereo and a CB. When I got back it was dark and I had no time to work on the rig for a week or so.
The van is a one ton, twelve passenger, set up with an unidentified 350 crate motor with an Edelbrock Performer manifold and Edelbrock AFB style carburetor, dual exhaust, a TH400 transmission, NP 203 transfer case on a custom adapter, fourteen bolt semi-floater GM rear end with some kind of limited slip differential, and a leaf sprung Dana 44 up front. The conversion was done by LRP (Leisure and Recreational Products) in Wisconsin. They were one of the big van conversion companies back in the van craze of the late seventies, early eighties.
Transmission adapter
I ran a car fax report on it but it starts in 1990 something. There is no history before that. I am pretty sure it was purchased by the US Government or as a fleet vehicle for some company and that might explain it. The color is odd. It’s not US Forrest Service green, it’s too pale. Look as I might, I can’t figure out who might have owned it originally. But I did find a guy in Alaska who had one very similar to this one. But he was not sure where it came from either.
I got rid of the Edelbrock carburetor, as they are one of the worst carburetors for off-roading. I replaced it with a rebuilt Quadrajet. The Quadrajet will keep chugging along at nearly any angle and has much better slow speed response. After that, the van ran pretty good, though still a bit unevenly. But the power it produced was pretty phenomenal for such a basic set up. Romp on the gas and it would burn rubber on both rear wheels, through second gear, making zero-to-sixty mph in about eight seconds. That’s pretty good for a full size four wheel drive van. The driving experience was a bit like driving an old fashioned roller skate. Being a one-ton on a shorter chassis with leafs up front, it was pretty bouncy.
I found a full length roof rack for it and we put that on. Plus we also found a Warn winch bumper for a pickup cheap. It’s a good thing my friend has a nice fabricating set up, otherwise we would never have made that bumper fit!
It drank gas like there was a hole in the tank. We took it to the beach which cost us an ungodly sum. I noticed that as we went up the coast range hills it lost a little power and when we got to our destination I noticed the engine sounded more “pingy”. I was worried but I didn’t say anything about it to the wife. On the sand it seemed to struggle a bit. Perhaps it was the way it’s laid out, but it took a lot of gas to power through. We drove several miles down the beach until we came to an inlet were we had to turn around.
The surf was piling up some nasty mud and the turning radius on this van is one of the worst I have ever seen. So I backed around to avoid it going through the surf. But the reverse shuddered. I thought I was just spinning the tires so we went forward a little and then tried again. No reverse, the wheels were not even turning. I had moved forward enough to get into the surf a little. Now I had no choice but to go through it. It was very soft and somewhat muddy. We said a short prayer to ourselves and I gave it lots of gas. We very nearly did get stuck but managed to power out of it. Eventually to get off the beach I had to air my tires down to ten psi and dig out several times. Kids are very handy for this, and that’s why I carry more than one shovel.
It’s funny, our 79′ Suburban was probably the best beach rig (probably due to it’s 12.5 x 33 inch tires), followed closely by the 95′ land Rover Discovery. In the Toyota Vans, even though they were OK, I could feel that I would get stuck if I went too far. But this Chevy van was terrible, it even has fairly wide tires so I am not sure why, perhaps it’s the weight distribution and gearing.
The reverse on the transmission was completely gone. I later had it diagnosed as a burnt out low/reverse band. I know I can repair it, I have done it before, but it’s a big pain in the rear.
I noticed on the way back that the engine temp was climbing near the top of the big hills but it never got critical. After our trip I replaced the spark plugs and set the timing. Neither of these made much difference and the plugs looked good. But one day I was coming back from work, I rounded the next to last corner to my house when I heard a loud pinging start. I pulled into the driveway and after a while I tried to start it up, it would not start. Diagnosis found that the fuel pump had quit. So I had my son replace it. Eventually we got her going again, but it was now pinging a lot more. No matter where I put the timing, it would not stop. I had to dial it way back to minimize it, which really cut down on the power.
I took it to an acquaintance who is a professional mechanic, but he had no answers. I replaced the carburetor base plate gasket and looked for air leaks/warpage. Nothing made a difference, so I had to assume the worst. I figured it was most likely a hole in a piston caused by continuous pre-combustion on some hot spot. Strangely when I talked to several mechanics about this, they seemed to act as if I were speaking in Greek. So I decided to drive it until it got bad enough to tell for sure what it was, since Chevy parts are dirt cheap.
It did get worse. Now running very badly, we took compression readings on all the cylinders. All were good except numbers three and five. Zero psi in number three and twenty five psi in number five! Well it was head pulling time; my oldest son did most of that, thank God for kids! The problem was of course obvious with the head removed. A blown head gasket between the two cylinders. I wondered how that could be all though. Number three was full of carbon, so I cleaned it out and there it was; the confirmation of my suspicions. The back side of the piston was completely burned away revealing the top ring even! I hate it when I am right!
So that’s as far as I have got on it. Right now I am trying to locate a piston just like the one in it. There are a lot of them that are close, but non exactly like it. It’s been so long since I had to do anything like this, I really do hate it now. But luckily my son is pretty capable, if not a little lazy.
In the interim we purchased a replacement vehicle and it’s quite an enjoyable ride. I have still not decided on the future of this van. It offers lots of room and convenience. But in return it eats fuel like it’s chocolate. It’s not the most refined of vehicles with a ride like a skate, and it’s pretty dang loud at full throttle up a mountain. Off-road, it ain’t so hot either, with very limited front axle articulation and a terrible turning radius. The great things about a twelve passenger van though; are that one can fit everything a family of seven needs for an outing inside. And when we get there, I can put the back seat down into a bed, put up an awning, set up a table, and relax very comfortably.
But the van fills me with bitterness. I really don’t know what I will do with it; fix it up and sell it, sell it as-is, keep it? For right now, I am enjoying it’s replacement, but that’s going to be the last COAL I write after the next one.
0-60 in 8 secs? Wow!
Maybe he meant kilometers 🙂
Nice. Had some coworkers at a job once who used a 4×4 Ford E-250 (not sure of the year, late 90s/early 2000s – job was in 2005) to get around a former oil refinery. Some of the wells they had to sample were off the beaten track and this van was ideal for them to sample from. The 4×4 was a conversion from the RWD E-250.
I’ll bet that the new Dodge Avenger is starting to look pretty good now. 🙂
Seriously, it sure sounds like you have a mess on your hands with this one. There is nothing worse than having to make the choice between spending lots of time and/or money to keep what you have or to flush a several thousand dollar investment down the toilet.
I will not offer any advice, which is a good thing – I have a terribly jaundiced view of this generation of Chevy van. But it is probably just me. Someday, when I am in a really bad mood, I may write a piece on the miserable POS Chevy vans I have had to drive. Oh no, see, it is starting already. I knew this would happen as soon as I saw the first picture. I had better stop typing now.
Funny, real funny..
I am not a Chevy fan, even less so now.
Whoa this is a sweeeeeet van. Keep it, fix it… it’s too cool. You’ll kick yourself one day years from now when you miss it dearly and it’s impossible or prohibitively expensive to find another one. Just think, in good running condition you can easily sell this for twice your purchase price – so whatever money you need to dump into the engine is as close to $$$ in the bank as it gets with older cars.
0-60 in 8 seconds is downright incredible for something this old with very heavy-duty drivetrain components that must weigh close to 5,000lbs. I’m also thinking it may be why there’s a hole in the piston and it had a history of pinging (timing way over advanced?) If it was mine and money/time were no object (pfft), I’d stick a new set of pistons in there and adapt a junkyard TBI setup. Maybe a junkyard 4L80 as well, if it got used on long trips at least.
I have considered all of the above. But if I do all that I would be keeping it. On the other hand I could sell all of my cars and get a Ford 4×4 van…
Ouch. These vans aren’t much fun to work on even without 4wd. My advice is to pull the engine/trans, fix what needs fixing and then sell it to recoup as much of your investmant as possible. It’ll cost you (or your son) a lot of sweat but not much $$$.
There were quite a number of different pistons used in run of the mill 350s from the mid 70s onward. They all give about 8:1 compression, cast construction, pressed in pins. They all weigh about the same. I wouldn’t worry too much if you can’t find an exact replacement, it’s not like you’re running a balanced and blueprinted race engine. It’ll run fine and won’t blow up.
I’d resist the temptation to “go through” the engine or trans while it’s out. Well, maybe replace the timing chain if you decide to keep it. My .02 anyway.
I really appreciate the advice here. It’s much needed, thanks.
I would want to verify that 0-60 in 8 seconds myself….
Sounds like that crate 350 was pretty heavily breathed on to get performance like that, which is probably why your head gasket went. That or the fool that installed the head didn’t know what a torque wrench is. This is more common than one might think.
The old saying “don’t send a boy on a man’s job” applies to small blocks. If you really want a reliable, carburated, small block for your truck or van, don’t soup the living daylights out of it. A four bolt block with a mild cam and dual exhaust will give you a reliable 200 hp and 300 lb/ft. If you try for more than this in a vehicle with high frontal area the revs you need will cause the motor to burn out. You cannot run a small block at sustained speeds of above 3500 rpm for any length of time and expect it to last for any length of time. A 350 with more than 8.5 compression will not run well on 87 octane. Even 87 is marginal. Try 89.
I know this from experience. My business partner went through his hot-rod phase and started listening to his mechanic, who loved high rpm hot small blocks. Our one-ton chip wagon’s diesel fried (big surprise) so we decided to put a motor in it. I wanted to put a 454 cid crate engine with 4bbl carb. But nooooo, we got a hot-rod 355 Chevy with, get this, 11:5:1 compression and a radical cam, which would only run on 94 octane. To get the chip truck to go 100 km/h required third gear and 4000 rpm. Within a week a piston was broken. A new motor was installed and it failed a month later. This truck is now used as storage!
Finally, a big van with hot motor and 4WD is going to be, ahem, rather thirsty…..
I had the same thought about this perhaps being a modified engine, but those pistons look like low compression smoggers to me. The intake ports on the other hand, look like earlier hi-perf units so who knows what we are really dealing with. I completely agree on sustained high rpm in truck applications killing small block chevys quickly.
If this thing really is that fast off the line I suspect very low gearing which would aggravate the problem. A 4×4 van built for a vocational customer is going to be a special purpose vehicle and if you try to use it for anything else you’re going to have problems. Like I said, I’d patch it and peddle it.
Yup, good points, small blocks are so mix and match you really don’t know what you are getting. The real problem is shade tree mechanics monkeying with them because they are so simple. You know, guys that splurge for new intakes and then use goop because they are too cheap to buy the gasket set.
Edelbock carbs are dreck in my experience. My partner got into them for all our old stuff (now gone) and making them run in Saskatchewan winters was so impossible we ended up converting them back to stock stuff. Who needs hi-perf on a van anyway, what was he thinking?
You are correct. It really was that fast, so I wonder about compression ratio etc, who knows.
My old Ford van with the low compression 460 could not be killed and got better mpg.
For trucks, low compression/big displacement is the way to go, that is if you are not using a proper truck diesel. The real irony is for our market, the Transit Connect will have the V-6 engine and not the diesel!
Typical, Americans never get the good stuff.
I’m going to go back the Lincoln’s timing off now. I got a little greedy a while back…
As a card carrying member of the cult of compression Ignition I’d be scheming to swap a in a 6.5L GM/Detroit Diesel or 4BT Cummins.
It could have been used by a Lumber Company or Forestry Contractor for crew transport.
This thing is worth keeping. As a runner it would be would fetch $6-8k up here in Sierra AWD Land where I reside. I see a fair number of the more recent Ford & GM Quigley 4×4 conversion vans.
http://www.quigley4x4.com/
Yep, thought of that. Not a big fan of GM diesels though.
The GM 6.5 is a total dog, we have had nothing but disaster with them. It make no sense to put a Duramax in a $2000 van. Assuming it were even possible, it would cost an astronomical amount of money.
The 6.2 and 6.5 were pretty much engineered to be doggy. They were meant to be a miser engine during the first $4/gallon gas panic in the 80s when Diesel was still insanely cheap.
The later Banks and factory turbo versions were better but won’t ever hold a candle to a Cummins or Power Stroke.
(As a side note.. Why do they call them Dogs? My two 100+ pound Labs can out work me any day.. 😀 )
The powerstroke is known as the powerjoke to anyone who has had the misfortune of having ever pulled a trailer with one. You are still way better off with gas motors in pickups and real diesels in real trucks, five tons or more.
Canucknucklehead I drive a truck that is way too big for the Powersmoke that’s in it everyday. It takes me several miles to get up to highway speed in the morning all loaded up. I would much prefer a Cummins or Mercedes.
I don’t know about that, the 7.3 liter PSD in a friend’s 2002 F-350 barely even acknowledges trailers behind it. It “only” has 250 hp and 525 lb/ft of torque stock from the factory, but it gets up to speed well even heavily loaded and has been super reliable at 120k miles. I hear the newer 6.0 liter is a piece of junk, though.
I have a BIL who farms. After a long time with a mid 90s Powerstroke F-250, he bought a Dodge Cummins (maybe an 03 or so). He recently replaced it with another Powerstroke Ford. He told me that as great as the engine was in the Dodge, he liked everything else about the Ford better and just couldn’t stand it anymore.
The powerstrokes designed by Ford after the break up with International are the ones with the problems. They are fine as long as you don’t have to do anything heavy with them. This is the case with 90% of owners anyway.
When talking of Truck diesels 250hp is a ute motor
I don’t mind the lack of power at all, they are good on economy and that’s what they were designed for. It’s the fact that they have weak main bearing saddles, crazy electric control problems, etc.
Peering at pic a sniff of ex-Border Patrol unit occurs. Pre-ICE days.
Later conversions/alterations likely removed internal indicators of hauling not-yet-legal-citizens-but-the-elite-class-adores-ahem-illegals-for-their-perverted-anti-We-the-People-reasons cough.
Been awhile Obbops
That green could be a Navy color. There was a training station not too far from where I grew up that had a fleet of K cars and pick up trucks that wore that color.
Good call on the Q-jet swap. I’ve found them to be one of the best all purpose carbs outside of the MotorCraft 2100 series. AFBs are for show cars!
Have you tried I.D.ing the pistons through any part numbers? If it has 993 heads and a 12cc dish in the piston it’s most likely an older Targetmaster or (very) early Goodwrench branded crate motor.
My $0.02 on the color: it reminds me of one of the shades of green used by AT&T back when they were THE phone company. 86 would be a bit late, but maybe Pac Bell or the Oregon version?
I once lusted for a 4×4 full-size van. When I mentioned this to my therapist, he said “What, are you crazy?” That cured me.
Lolz
I say sell it off.
It’s a cool rig. However, you seem to like the Ford vans a lot more, you don’t have that much money invested in it, and overall you don’t seem too fond of this one.
Keep that front bumper though.
@Canucknucklehead(I’m on my phone, trying to Fish..)
No argument on the PS from me. Most of my family was working at Harvester in Melrose during it’s initial development. Ford had such a heavy hand in its development that it barely did 1/2 of what Harvester designed it to do.
I was fortunate enough to see what they were capable of in the Dyno cells during the failure analysis stage.
Then you got to see that if a powerjoke is stressed to anywhere near its rated capacity it will pop a head gasket. Failure to stop engine in a timely manner will lead to catastrophic failure.
Fortunately most powerjokes haul only their fat-assed drivers to Walmart to pick up some frozen pizza. They can haul both with no problems.
The ad says that it is probably a National Forest Service color, and I concur.
As for the engine, a better though less exciting choice might have been a 292.
Agreed on the engine, love those old 292’s. The color is way too light though.
As was mentioned stick a new slug in that hole (even if it’s not an exact match) and drive on.
I would not remove the engine, it is way to big of a pain to wrestle an engine out of one of those. Yes getting the pan out may not be easy depending on the front axle set up but it should still save you time vs pulling the engine.
It’s worth too little as it sits to not get it running again yet isn’t going to worth enough running to justify the price of a completely, properly rebuilt engine. So patching this one back together and using it for a while until the next best thing comes along is the way to go.
My suggestion is to try to find Hot Rod Magazines articles on “budget” rebuilds…
Lets see what Google will give us: http://www.hotrod.com/howto/43063_cheap_engine_buildup/
Just my 2 cents.
michael, it seems to me that finding out that testing a gov’t surplus van’s 0-60 time wasn’t the best idea you ever had.
what’s done is done. the sensible thing to do would be to pay someone else to fix the van and then sell it and possibly earn a slight profit. we all know that you are not going to do that. suck it up and prepare yourself for the bonding experience of rebuilding the engine with your son. treat yourself to renting the best/safest hoist to get the engine in and out.
then you have to decide what to do with the van after the engine rebuild and fixing reverse. you could sell it and use the money towards buying the ford or toyota van of your dreams. or you could learn to live with the chevy’s terrible gas mileage and turning radius. you may even learn to like the ridiculous power on tap and the huge amount of interior space. it’s kind of neat looking machine in a retro way. if you do keep it, please get some seat covers. the velour on those captain’s chairs is creeping me out in a big way…
Fix the dead lung and tranny band and flick it off or pull all the powertrain and rebuild it to suit your needs and keep it for ever. Do it once do it right.