In this episode of COAL, I learn two things: collector cars are like potato chips (you can’t have just one); and my wife’s eagerness to buy one collector car didn’t necessarily extend to buying a second. That’s not to say I didn’t work very hard to wear her down…
I’d had the Thunderbird SC for about seven or eight months by Halloween 2011, and had already had some fun driving the car around and taking it to car shows. That got me thinking and looking at the classic car classifieds and auction sites for another car, especially since the cars of the ‘80s that I liked were usually pretty inexpensive to buy and there were still quite a few nice examples out there.
To occupy a nice October day my wife and I attended the Fall Carlisle event, which unlike the brand-specific shows was entirely focused on selling cars, parts, and accessories. We wandered the fairgrounds for several hours before running across a car that was pretty common in our small Ohio town, the Oldsmobile Delta 88. The Delta 88 was as ubiquitous around where I grew up as the A-body Celebrity and Cutlass Ciera as there were only two dealers in town, one selling Fords and one selling Chevrolet/Oldsmobile vehicles. The 88 was a good honest compromise – a bit larger and more comfortable than the Ciera but not as expensive or flashy as the 98 or Toronado, so a lot of our neighbors bought them.
The one I found at the show was pretty rare (note I didn’t say valuable) as it represented one of the last gasps of the “full-size” two-door American barge. By 1986 GM was working on downsizing and moving its full-size cars to FWD platforms, and the Delta 88 was no different. At the time, GM figured that buyers would still want a two-door 88 just like they used to in the ‘70s, but sales figures proved otherwise, as very few were sold.
The car at the show had only 20,000 miles on it, and was the top-line Royale Brougham in blue with a blue velour interior. I loved it – because I have odd tastes in cars. This was certainly a blast from the past, with the wire wheel covers, button-tufted pillowy seats, blue embroidered Brougham logos on the seats, and an old-school horizontal speedometer. The car came with a two-inch thick stack of paperwork, too, dating back to its purchase in 1986. Because I figured the car would be expensive (low miles, lots of paperwork, very good original condition), I didn’t want to pursue it further as I’d probably end up disappointed that I couldn’t afford it. My wife, though, pushed me to go find the owner and talk to him about the car, so I did. As you might expect, it was a one-owner car from the stereotypical little old man who only drove to church on Sundays. He let me into the car and used the little magnet on the keychain to trip an old school theft deterrent system (a simple kill switch behind a dash panel that was activated by the magnet). The car was like new inside and ran really well (those 3.8 liter V-6 engines lasted a long time). The kicker was the price – I don’t remember the exact number he quoted, but it was well within my price range if I wanted to add to my collection (and significantly lower than I expected).
Here’s where things went a little sideways – my wife had pushed me to get information about the car but now that it appeared that we could afford it (and I certainly wanted to take it home) she suddenly decided she didn’t want to buy it. We had a fairly extensive discussion at the show but ultimately she won out and we went home without the car. (I’ve looked quite a few times in several places to try and find this car or one like it and have had no luck.)
It didn’t take long for me to find another car, though, and this one would prove to be more palatable. Ironically, it was in the inventory of a dealer in Ohio that was part of the same local chain that I’d gotten my original SC from, although this car was at their Chrysler store and not the Ford store across the street. This was an ’89 Thunderbird like I already had, but in the LX trim with the standard 145 hp 3.8 liter V-6 and automatic. It had 75,000 miles on the clock and came with a lot of the desirable equipment from the day (digital dash with trip computer, power seats, automatic headlights, uprated stereo, alloy wheels). Best of all, the price was right – it was less than $5k. It just so happened that my wife was going to visit her parents in early November that year, and she grudgingly agreed to go see the car when she was there. She came back with the news that the car was as nice as it looked in the dealer pictures and drove pretty well too. Phone negotiations followed and I ended up the proud new owner of a fraternal twin of my other Bird.
Since we were going to visit family for Thanksgiving that year, I decided just to drive it home to Maryland after the holiday instead of shipping it. A shakedown run indicated that it was running well and had no odd smells or noises that would indicate any problems, but a quick check of the tires indicated that they were probably well over a decade old. A last minute visit to a tire store an hour before they closed on the Saturday after Thanksgiving and the car was equipped with an acceptable (but cheap) set of tires. The car handled the trip well and gave me no trouble on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and we got home just fine.
Some research on this car’s history divulged the fact that the car had been sold to a dealer near Cleveland and had been built in the very same week at the same Lorain, Ohio plant as my current SC. (Because this was an LX, a model that had been on sale for several months, it was just a regular production car.) I’d looked at the LX back in 1989 but it was almost as costly as the SC without the benefit of the supercharged engine. This red one came with a copy of the window sticker that showed the MSRP at $19,892 in ’89, including almost $1100 for ABS and $450 for the uprated stereo. Even the clearcoat red paint was extra – $183.
I got a lot of interest in the car at car shows – unlike the SCs which were often purchased and babied so a large number have survived, the LX was rarely seen as they were just bought as everyday cars. Very few in this condition are still around, even though Ford made around 4-5 times more LXs than SCs – people just ran them into the ground. With its red-on-red finish the car seemed to draw attention, especially when it was next to the blue SC built in the same week (which always made a nice opening story at a show).
The car wasn’t without its troubles, as you’d expect from a 20+ year old car. Valve cover gaskets were getting tired and leaking small amounts of oil. I didn’t notice anything on the garage floor or driveway until enough oil leaked into the front crossmember to fill up the shallow cavity on its top – once that happened, we got some drips. Easily fixed, and less costly than the SC because there was a lot less induction plumbing in the way.
Another problem area with this car that has also cropped up on my SC is the power window motors. The motors are relatively powerful and move the window pretty quickly. The drive gears are nylon plastic, however, and have an interesting design – there is an outer gear that is driven by the motor that has a triangular depression in its center. The gear that drives the window mechanism is not mounted solidly to the outer gear, but rather is connected to the outer gear with a series of three cam buttons that fit into the triangles of the large gear and engage tabs on the smaller gear (presumably to introduce some shock absorbance into the mechanism to isolate the motor from the shock loading of the window hitting its stops). This is all good until the cam buttons get old (I don’t think the designers expected many of the cars to be on the road for 20+ years).
When the buttons age from exposure to years of temperature changes, they get brittle – the motor works fine until the buttons shatter and fail catastrophically (which of course they both do at essentially the same time), rendering the windows inoperable. Especially fun if the cams shatter when the window is all the way down, meaning that you have to disassemble the interior door panel to be able to push the window closed. Luckily, the problem is well-known and repair parts are cheap, requiring only the wrestling of the motor out of a small hole in the door. (This window failure is especially fun in the middle of summer here in Maryland when the A/C in the car decides to depart for parts unknown, which happened a couple of years ago in the SC).
The biggest hassle was simply the fact that I now had twice as many cars as garage spaces, so this car had to sit outside. In fact, the car is actually visible in the driveway on Google Street View in the neighborhood where we lived at the time. I tried to use a fitted car cover to keep it from being out in the weather, but that was more trouble than it was worth. I chased that cover around the yard more than once in windy weather. This problem was only solved when I found an offsite classic car storage garage that would keep both cars accessible but safely protected in climate-controlled conditions. That garage has been the main enabler for me to continue with a collection of more than one old car.
I had fun with this car for a couple of years, but then decided I wanted to move on to another car in my bucket list. That car turned out to be the worst mistake I’ve made to date in collecting old cars, as we’ll see in a couple of weeks.
Very nice car in a great color combination. It reminds me of my ’88 LeSabre T-Type, which was obviously a competitor at the time. The Ford though is much more modern-looking inside. You’re absolutely right about the car show thing – I’d take a long look at your SC but then would take an even longer look at the LX…
This ’89 T-bird also had a much nicer interior than later ‘Birds of this generation, which like so many late-’90s American cars had an interior that looked like a Playskool toy that had been spray-painted grey. My roommate and close friend from about 12 years ago drove a post-facelift LX that I also drove frequently, and about the only interior improvement was airbags replacing those annoying mouse-motor shoulder belts.
The comparison to your LeSabre brings to mind another parallel – the ’89 Mercury Cougar was to the T-Bird what the (rare) Electra/Park Avenue coupe was to the LeSabre coupe – the same basic car but with a stiff, vertical roofline replacing the rakish coupe shape of the T-Bird/LeSabre. There was a T-Type version of the Electra briefly too, although they are evidently so rare I couldn’t find one online; this pic is of a Park Avenue coupe. Both brands took a predictable hit in rear leg- and headroom in the sloped-roof versions as the backrest was moved forward to clear the rear window.
What’s interesting about the 1985 Electra/Olds 98 coupes is that they used the same roof stamping as the sedans, which accounts for the boxy and somewhat graceless look. I guess GM saw the light and decided to adopt a sleeker roof for the LeSabre/88 coupes. Here’s an Olds 98 with a vinyl top which makes the car look dated.
An attractive car, can’t help thinking how similar it is to the E24, nose aside.
That was intentional. The E 24 stood model for the MN 12.
And that’s how they shot themselves in the foot with it, financially. Ford’s hubris in thinking they could make a genuine E24 competitor resulted in horrendous development cost overruns, and it cost more to build per unit than the market would bear, given the blue oval on it. Ford took a major bath on this car. They ended up having to sell it at give-away prices to achieve the volumes they needed. Which explains the major de-contenting after a couple of years.
I do think it is attractive from some angles, but from day one I thought its hood/front end was off; too flat with too much downward slope. And it comes across as a bit too wide too. It lacks the overall sculptural aspects of the BMW. But then the E24 is not quite perfect in my book either; it took me a while to warm up to it.
If I recall correctly the general manager on the MN-12 project got fired as a result of overspending and underperforming results. I will say this; there is a stark contrast between a mid 80’s BMW and these in standard form to the point it’s laughable. Maybe not the S/C cars, but I doubt it.
That’s true. An E24 this was certainly not. What Ford did do was position itself at the top of the American personal luxury coupe market. These were markedly better-built than the GM ones—and I say that as an avid fan of the 1995-1999 Buick Riviera.
Of course, yeah, the entire segment was in decline and MN12 wasn’t as profitable as it should have been, if at all.
Didn’t Ford try to make an AWD MN12 variant, too? I read something somewhere about an AWD prototype that had actually been codevoped by BMW.
Good for you. I know that the V6 LX represented much more of production than the SC or V8 models did but I wouldn’t have been able to work up enthusiasm for an LX – enough to buy it anyway.
The 88 would have been cool and I love seeing one minus the vinyl roof. I’d swap the wire wheel covers for a really simple disc style chrome wheel and keep lots of sidewall, but that’s probably because of the years I spent trying to keep Olds wire wheels clean and the little locking mechanism tightened.
“I tried to use a fitted car cover to keep it from being out in the weather, but that was more trouble than it was worth. I chased that cover around the yard more than once in windy weather.”
I played this game for a while, I use a set of these bed sheet straps and my car cover has stayed on in 70+ MPH winds.
http://bit.ly/2nVyzJy
But you’re right in the end, nothing beats some offsite, indoor storage to really keep the extra cars safe & clean.
Very nice. I like the idea of the affordable collector car, the car not everyone may seek, and also the newer cars from the ’80’s.
Those T-birds are great looking cars, but that ’86 Olds really intrigues me. Sounds like a great condition survivor, a perfect garage-mate for my wife’s low mileage ’85 Cutlass Supreme, and maybe a car that would be on my list of “the one’s that got away”.
Garage/parking space really can be a challenge. My hobby and special fun cars typically find their home in the garage, with the daily drivers parked outside. Works OK, allows for easy access and for winter time work on them, but many times when I’m scrapping ice or brushing snow off our daily drivers when the wind is gusting to 25 or 30 mph and it’s well below freezing out I question that.
After all these years I still find these cars beautiful. I presume it had the usual AOD automatic? I have never driven a car with the AOD behind the 3.8 V6. My 86 Marquis wagon had that engine but with the 3 speed C5 instead, which turned out to be a really nice pairing.
I think from ‘83 on, the 3.8L was paired with the AOD… my memory of my ‘83 T-Bird May be a little fuzzy, but I think it had 4 speeds….
…but by ‘97, when I got my last T-Bird, that 3.8L had AOD for sure, as did all the V8 T-Birds I had over the years.
The only oddball was my wife’s ‘88 Turbo Coupe – that was a 5 speed stick, as it should have been.
I know that the 4 speed OD auto was optional on some of those cars. A good friend was shopping for a Cougar in 84 and we were surprised and disappointed that the new OD auto was optional, and not inexpensive. He got one with the C5.
My 86 Fox body Marquis was a highly optioned car yet did not have the AOD, but the 3 speed C5.
I wonder if the C5 was what my 200 Straight Six Futura had in ‘79? It was a three speed, but I always thought it was a C4. (Just wondering, because the Futura was similar to those Fox LTD(s) and Marquis.
Strictly speaking the AOD was the original overdrive automatic with the hydraulic controls that was used from 1980 into the very early 90s. It was replaced by the AODE which was electronically controlled. The later version eliminated the hard lockup of the converter immediately upon the shift into 3rd gear that made the AOD so unpleasant.
I only learned that my Marquis had the C5 when I had to diagnose a problem that led to a new vacuum modulator. The C5 had a very short life (1983-86) and was basically a C4 with a lockup torque converter. Funny, until I just looked that up on Wiki, I had no idea that the C5 had a lockup converter because I never noticed it in operation. The AOD crown vic that followed used to beat me over the head every time that converter locked up. I came to hate that powertrain.
I’m stuck on that Delta 88 two-door.
I’m not a man who puts his foot down often. Almost never. Live and let live, I say. Things tend to work out in the long run. Peace must be kept.
But if my wife pushed me to talk to a man about such a low-mileage good-nick Delta 88 two-door, a car I’ve always looked at longingly, and then the price were within range, and *then* my wife said No…….
My foot would go down.
I agree. I love those Delta 88 two-doors (and their Buick equivalents). This winter I was mighty surprised to spot a 1986 Delta 88 Royale Brougham Coupe here in Virginia — in somewhat rough shape, but I haven’t seen one in many years.
In my opinion, the Delta 88 coupe and the 87-88 Thunderbirds were the best-looking American cars of the 1980s.
For some reason, the picture didn’t attach the first time:
Fun story regarding the windows in these… So my best friend back in the day owned two MN-12 Cougars, a ’94 and a ’97. I think we did this in the ’94, but I’m not 100% sure. Anyway, I noticed right away when she got her first one that the power windows were shockingly swift, and honestly seemed dangerous if one were to close the window on an unsuspecting passenger. One day after a picnic lunch we had a leftover apple. I, fearing those windows after my friend accidentally closed my side with my arm out still, asked her if we could see “if we could try and cut the apple”. She agreed, and that power window literally cut thru the center core of that thing with the loudest crunch I’ve ever heard. No resistance whatsoever. The moral of the story? We were young and dumb, and there is no safety return on those super strong MN-12 windows!
My ex (and I when we were married) traded in her ‘88 Turbo Coupe in on a ‘94 4.6L MN-12 ‘Bird. When we first tried those power windows, we were quite shocked. When others would comment on them, we would joke that we went for the optional Marie Antionette Power Windows…. never tries the apple in a guillotine thing, but that sounds kinda cool.
When we split up in 1997, I traded my own ‘88 T-Bird (a 5.0L LX) in on my own MN-12, but it seems that by the 1997 model year, Ford toned that down a bit. I don’t recall the ‘97’s windows being nearly as guillotine like as that ‘94.
A wee bit of irony here… today’s COAL post features his and hers T-Birds… I can so relate, even though ours weren’t classics… they were contemporary cars 20+ years ago. And like the author, the cars had Maryland plates.
I totally was thinking of calling them guillotine windows! Let’s just say I never put my arm out in that car after that experience…
Sharpen the top of the glass to a fine edge and you can amputate the arms of your friendly neighborhood carjacker…
Another trip down memory Lane! This site is becoming an addictive way to spend a Saturday morning.
I bought a ’91 Thunderbird LX in ’93, mainly because our Used Car Manager had a snit over what I took the car in for. He complained so much, I finally said “if you’re that unhappy about it, just tell me how much to write the check for and I’ll just buy the damned thing.” $7K later, I was the proud owner of a 5.0 LX with just about every option you could get on it (less than half of new MSRP). The car had less than 10K miles on it, red metallic with maroon leather/cloth interior, and was so clean you could have rolled it onto the showroom floor without a detail. Originally, I thought I’d flip the car, but I liked it do well I used it as a DD until ’96. Wound up selling it to a local family that gave it to their daughter as a graduation present… and still made money on the car.
I loved these cars, having had a 95, and have quite a bit of experience with the Ford 3.8. This certainly seems like a solid survivor and hope you enjoy it.
I will say that headgaskets were an issue on these engines. Hopefully they have been replaced already. Mine lasted till 90k till i had to do them. I had two other Thunderbirds between 89 and 95 that also had the gaskets blown. If you start to overheat, it’s because the thermostat is air-bound from the gaskets leaking compression into the water jacket. The NA 3.8 has the coolant passeges too close to the compression ring of the gaskets. The SC is built stronger and doesn’t have as many passages. Once the head gaskets are replaced with a new set of Felpro replacement gaskets and head bolts, it usually corrects the problem.
Even with these issues, I still love these cars. They just feel right. I have never been able to find a suitable replacement
I sent this blog post to my brother and he replied that this car was exactly like the one he had in every respect. He said it was a great car and later regretted that he had traded it in with only 77K miles on it. The Cougar he traded it on gave him 200K+ miles . His job requires a lot of driving and he owned several Thunderbirds and Cougars as well as a couple of Mustangs, getting good service from all of them. When they quit making these cars he switched to Honda Accords because, like me, he only drives coupes. Now Honda has dropped the Accord Coupe and he is ready for a new car. He is not sure what he is going to do. The one he has now has 340K+ miles on it. I have tried to talk him into a Mustang as the coupe selection is getting pretty sparse.
By the way, there are surprisingly quite a few of these old TBirds and Cougars still running around my area.
I really, really like the looks of your former Thunderbird LX. Of course, back in the day I was younger and would have preferred the Thunderbird SC. That red, Thunderbird LX just seems so right and so nice. I always thought that body style was just a great looking design. And, that Olds Delta 88 with only about 20K miles sure seems like a nice car, too.
“The car wasn’t without its troubles, as you’d expect from a 20+ year old car.” I have deepest regrets to say that my ’96 Aerostar met the end of its useful life early yesterday morning after a 2nd deer encounter on my way to work. The first time was on December 2, 2013 coming home from Piedmont Technical College at night. And just a week ago, the engine started shuttering & got progressively worse with each passing day. Troubleshooting initially showed a bad fuel filter, but now it shutters like crazy anytime I go uphill & even after getting over the hill (undoubtedly a sign of transmission failure). All that, plus the fact that it kind of IS starting to fall apart all over (running boards banged up & getting loose, front AND rear bumper damage now all too obvious especially from the deer hits, something that looks like mold appears to be growing on the ceiling behind the 3rd-row seat, rain leaks through the left window in the 2nd-row area, and the fact that it had already been wrecked before I bought it) are the tell-tale signs that it’s time to let it go to heaven, just like Paul Niedermeyer’s Dodge Chinook. You just can’t find good parts for these vehicles anymore. I’ve already cited 3 possible replacements for my ride at VERY good deals: a 1996 Chevrolet Astro LS with 113k miles for $5900 at Herlong Chevrolet in Batesburg-Leesville, SC, a 2011 Ford Ranger base model with a Class III hitch receiver with 92k miles for $9500 at Cromley’s in Saluda, SC, and a 7-pass. 2014 Ford Transit Connect XLT Wagon with 36k miles for no more than $16,000 at Berkeley Ford in Monck’s Corner, SC. My Aerostar was excellent while it lasted, but it’s time to move on. REST IN PEACE.
If it were me, I would buy the Transit Connect. Sure it cost more but at 36,000 miles and being only 4 years old, you should get 20 years or more out of it. Plus it should be easy to work on
The Astro is over priced for the age and mileage. You can do much better. Plus they are a super pain in the ass to work on.
I like the Ranger but I think that is a too high price for what it is. I could see if it was loaded to the gills with stuff but a base. Plus if you are used to the van, the Ranger in all its narrowness will annoy you. I found my 2010 Ranger base to be too narrow and cramped for me to be happy. My Chevy Colorado is a base reg cab but has a lot of room.
If you go the pickup route, look for ether a fullsize truck or a Colorado/Canyon.
As for your sputtering. Before you dump the truck, try replacing the plugs (with Autolite or Motorcraft plugs only) and replace the TPS sensor. The Areostar seemed to have issues with the TPS Sensor. I replaced several while at the Ford Dealer I worked at for a year. The heat cooks them.
The MN-12 Thunderbird seems so attractive to me now yet when new I never considered one. A 4.6 T-Bird coupe would be very desirable to me but back when it was new I had eyes only for F-150s. Things (& my tastes) change.
God I love these MN-12 Birds, and I’m surprised how good it looks in LX trim. These are a really timeless design!
I really like your collection. I’m a fan of the mn12 platform and would love to pick up an SC at some point. For now I will have to make do with my ‘97 MkVIII
Dad two of these, a 3.8 and 4.6. I dont know why, but he was one of his generation that traded in cars often. They drove like a big two door American coupe should. I was going freeway speeds on surface streets without knowing it, quite like a Mercedes 450SL It doesnt surprise me that the car was sold at a loss by Ford.
I picked up a 1989 Thunderbird, which was kind of a barn find. It had 57 K original miles on it, and was being disposed of, by a dealer tired of having it, mismatched with newer vehicles. I ran it through an automatic transmission diagnosis, with the dealer there, determined that in fact the AOD transmission was bad, probably dry seals from sitting, and had to be replaced. Being so low miles, I went ahead and put in a Jasper remanufactured transmission, which cost me more than the car. I also replaced all front suspension parts that were loose, new Struts, a complete brake job, all hoses and belts, and a major tune up with new filters. I had all this done at once when I first purchased the car, as it was dangerous to drive. The body generally was in great shape, the trunk was immaculate, with the original spare. I replaced the tires with new Toro’s and found a good used set of original aluminum rims. Despite an age deteriorated interior, the car presents very well in Dark burgundy original paint. It has the original 3.8 V-6 which feels almost like a V-8.
It cruises very well, with a little hesitation, when started ice cold. It was too good a car to send the the junk yard, and I enjoy driving it on sunny days, otherwise it remains garaged. I expect to keep it for a few years, unless I get a substantial offer out-of-the-blue.