When I last left you, the new (to us) 1994 Grand Cherokee was doing great…..but the 1991 Buick I bought secondhand in 1995 was starting to have electrical gremlins. It was Fall of 1998, our first child (now a rising college sophomore) was due any day, and we had just moved into our first home we had purchased together. My wife and I had discussed her staying at home after the birth. Not a good time to need to buy a new car.
I grew up in a town about 90 minutes away. I don’t know why, but my gut instinct was to return to the dealership there I had known for so many years. My grandmother had bought her Pontiacs there since before I was born. My mom’s 1979 240D came from there as well when new. And they also carried GMC and Subaru. A little something for everyone, I guess. And, my best friend in high school was some relation to the owner as well. So there was a comfort level there that was lacking with the dealers in the town where we were now living.
My wife was interested in the Outback wagon anyway. I guess about this time was when the Outback really was coming into it’s own….you didn’t tell people you had bought a Subaru, you told them you bought a new “Outback”. We drove down there in the Buick and test drove an Outback or two. We were very underwhelmed. It felt cheap and tinny, a real disappointment. The frameless door glass struck us as particularly odd or old-fashioned.
Full disclosure: as you will read later, we should have bought an Outback. I have kicked myself many times for not buying the Outback. I am sure it was a great car 20 years ago, but compared to the solid Jeep and the silent Buick, yes, it seemed flimsy and cheap. My parents have lately turned into Subaru fans; they have a stick shift Forester they pull behind the RV, a 2015 WRX, and a 2017 Legacy sedan. So I respect the Subaru lovers out there.
Moving past the Outback then, what was there? Well, I recall a variety of used wagons, and of course the Tahoe and GMC Suburban as they were called then. Too big and too expensive. But a new Jimmy caught our eye. It was a 1998, so it was getting past the sell-by date. The lot was already full of 99’s.
We drove it around town and it just seemed perfect. 4 doors, part time push button four wheel drive for less wear and better economy. It was an SLT trim which meant power everything, alloy wheels, and deep tint glass in the rear, but no leather, sunroof or other frippery. It did have keyless entry and factory CD, so I think that was the first such equipped car we had. The 4.3 liter V6 had plenty of power. It was quiet and softly sprung…. a little too mushy feeling when pushed, but it was certainly comfortable around town.
My one qualm was the name…what a weird name, “Jimmy”, for a car. How did they come up with that? The best answer I can find on the internet is that “Jimmy” was slang for “GMC”, kind of like “Jeep” is slang for “GP” or “general purpose”. GMC liked it and applied it first to their 1970 full size clone of the two door Chevrolet Blazer. Later, it was applied to the smaller S-15 version as well. Sounds like a plausible explanation. In 2002, the name was dropped for “Envoy”.
I think they called the color “Pewter”, but it seemed more silver to me. It looked good, though. It was matched with one of those interiors that you can never quite tell what color it is……it looked gray until you bought gray mats, for example. So you then realize “no, I need tan mats” but when you put the tan mats in, the whole interior looks gray. It was like that, a problematic trend that continues to this day. I think “putty” is the best name I could use to describe it. It had a very 90’s random geometric kind of pattern on the seats.
Of course, our main consideration was the price. I don’t recall exact figures, but I know there was an aggressive discount and the selling price was very pleasing or my wife would not have gone along with it, and to top it off, we got $5,000.00 trade in the on Buick. That part, I don’t think I’ll ever forget! So yes, we got about what I had paid for it three years and 90,000 or so miles prior.
Life with the Jimmy started out great. Our daughter came within weeks, and I got a hard-wired phone installed in the Jimmy. Remember those? Maybe some young readers don’t; I had to make an appointment at the installation shop. It took hours, I wondered around the adjacent shopping center for what seemed liked forever. I seem to recall it also costing hundreds of dollars, but for work purposes it was worth it to me at the time. It sure worked great compared to the bag phone, with the exterior antenna and hard-wired power source.
The factory Michelin XW4’s wore out quickly (thank goodness as they were white lettered). I replaced them with a set of Michelin X-One radials, which were great. They didn’t seem to stay on the market for long, and I never understood why. They didn’t appear to wear hardly at all, and they were good in light snow too. Michelin still uses this name, but it appears to be on tractor trailer tires.
There was a small place on the roof that had weak clear coat, I guess it started as a dull area about the size of a dime and was about the diameter of a salad plate when our time with the Jimmy came to a premature end. Other than that, the Jimmy just got oil changes every 3,000 miles at the local WalMart and soldiered on.
It had a quirk, so I thought, that got worse and led to an unpleasant end to our relationship. Initially, about a year and 25,000 miles in, the gauge cluster would go dead for a few moments and then spring back to life. I didn’t think much of it, and it didn’t happen often or for long. But one night when it was about two years old, I was driving and the lights went out; ALL the lights. Headlights, gauge cluster, radio faceplate, etc. That freaked me out. I was in a rural, dark, but familiar area so I was able to pull over safely. I turned the ignition off and restarted the car; everything was fine.
A week or so later, the lights went out again. I took it to the dealer, and the warranty was out by this time, due to mileage. But, there was a campaign to replace the ignition switch so that was done for free. That, I was told, was the cause of the electrical problems.
Instead of the problem going away, it got worse. By three years of age, probably 75,000 miles or so, the gauges were again going dead and the car was stalling at occasional stop signs or lights when that happened too. I suspected the ignition switch again, so I went back to the dealer. They told me the switch would not be replaced again since I had the new redesigned switch already. That was all they could do.
Within days, I was flying down the interstate at about 70 mph when the car cut off; I looked down, and the gauges were all dead too. That was the first time it had cut off in motion like that. I was scared of the vehicle and I was furious. There was some design flaw in that switch that GM never owned up to, I believe. And of course years later they would have more dire, but similar, ignition switch problems.
I could not ever have my wife and kids (we had two by this time) in the Jimmy again. I swore that was the last GM vehicle I would ever own, and as of July 2017 I have never owned a new or used GM anything ever again.
So, I needed a new vehicle. We were building a new house, baby two (now a rising high school senior) had arrived, and my wife had not gone back to work after the arrival of the first child. Again, not good timing for a new vehicle. So if I was going to trade, I was going to make reliability one of my main considerations this time around. The SUV style suited us with the two kids and their stuff, so what reliable SUV’s were out there I wondered? I wanted something that would last YEARS, I was not one of those fools who were going to trade cars all the time.
Oh, how the best laid plans go awry, as you will see.
The Jeep was sold on to some relatives about this point in time. The next COAL and the ones that follow, were primarily my wife’s vehicles. What was I driving, then, you may ask? That’s another COAL series I’ll come back and fill in when we finish with this line-up. I’ll refer to that other series as my “beater” COALS, if that’s a hint for you.
So what car purchase do you regret the most?
The worst vehicle I ever bought was a new 2002 Ford Escape. Every suspension part on the car failed and the steering rack failed three times before I sold it two years later.
It’s unfortunate, but GM’s handling of the defective ignition switch “issue” was yet another example of how something small would “turn off” (no pun intended) loyal customers and keep them from recommending any GM products to friends.
In my family 3 of my sisters have Outbacks. One is on her 3rd, one on her 2nd, one one her first. The one on her 1st is the only one with a turbocharged model….and it’s been problematic for the last year or two. Unlike her sisters, she will never buy another Subaru.
The closest I’ve ever been to a COAL is my 1989 Civic which I owned for nearly 7 years until some dimwit ran a red light. I’m not sure what I’d buy nowadays as a long term vehicle.
It was a GM product that bit me as well: my ill-fated ’98 Saturn SL2. I have regrets about that car tinged with fondness, however, since it was fine basic transportation before dying with only 43,000 miles. The dealer poked around for a while, couldn’t find a problem, and basically shrugged it off. I haven’t gone near a GM product since then.
Importamation writes: “I swore that was the last GM vehicle I would ever own, and as of July 2017 I have never owned a new or used GM anything ever again.”
For people looking for a reliable long term vehicle, one can swear off brands so often that they end up with no brands left. And car manufacturers don’t care too much for long term owners; that’s not how sales of new vehicles are encouraged. Hence the suspected and dreaded conspiracy theory of built-in obsolescence.
Could it be a vehicle manufacturers’ mutual conspiracy to form a constantly rotating pool of buyers? Not likely, but naturalists have proven that wolves cooperate in the eternal quest for food and pack dominance.
But, if I had sworn off Chrysler cars because of our poorly put together 1995 Eagle Vision TSi, I would not have bought the much better built and designed 2002 PT Cruiser (5 speed). Admittedly, it was the small local dealer we liked more than the brand.
In my dotage, where reliability supersedes all other qualities, I am now limiting myself to Japanese vehicles. When one has a lot less time in the future than in the past, one does not want to waste any time on frustrating failures, quality issues, return visits to dealer, or warranty arguments.
Will I miss out on some marvelous German, American, and Italian vehicles?
Perhaps, but I don’t care.
I think, with few exceptions, the dealer is at least as important as the brand in determining whether I’m going to cross a vehicle permanently off any list of potential purchases. If a dealership has no interest in providing needed repairs to a car I bought from them (whether or not the vehicle is under warranty) as happened at 2 different Ford dealers, I’ll give the brand a 2nd chance but not the dealers.
Yet, I’ve owned an Audi and the local dealership treated me like a leper because it wasn’t the most expensive model. The car itself also had little “niggles” that never left me stranded, but made me feel that I had WAY overpaid for my car. Little things broke, sometimes more than once, then the clutch failed prematurely and parts were on back-order for months….because LOTS of folks with the same model had the same failure. NEVER will I buy an Audi, except for a really dirt cheap used model.
That is the reason I will never buy another Toyota. The 3 dealerships in my area treated me like a red head stepchild due to buying a Scion.
Never again will I buy a Toyota product(I will take the bus first)
Toyota lost me in ’86 when they discontinued the solid front axle 4WD pickup.Never looked back.
I’ll vouch for this. Wife is a Ford person, I am not. But I deal with an excellent albeit small Ford dealer.
Funny that you’d cite reliability as your rationale for choosing Japanese…my current 2016 Mazda 3 is up there with one of the worst cars I’ve ever bought (or thankfully in this case, leased).
It’s only got 30,000km on the clock, but it’s already had it’s entire manual transmission replaced, three door lock actuators, a body control module, the infotainment brain, the driver’s door weatherstripping…the list goes on. And the infotainment still doesn’t work properly – I’ve just given up on it.
The dealership has been wonderful, but what an *awful* car to live with. It makes a lot of promises during a test drive that it simply doesn’t keep in everyday life. I’m counting down the months until the lease is up and I can get rid of the damned thing!
I guess if I had to pick just one as the car I most regret buying it would be the 2004 Saturn l300 I bought this April.
Besides losing my shirt on it financially, a buddy of mine who works on my cars and I have had some serious words over issues with the car (which I bought on his recommendation) and I am not sure our 20 year friendship is going to ever recover. I can deal with scrapping the car in a manner of weeks, I’m just going to have a harder time if our friendship also ends up in the junkyard.
Getting angry at a friend because a 13 year old car needs repairs is rediculous. You bought a crappy vehicle at the end of it’s usable life. At the time you bought it, your friend looked it over and didnt discover any current problems, but you can’t expect him to predict the future. Old cars break. Quite a bit. And at the end of the day it was your decision to purchase it.
Yeah, get over it and smooth it over with your friend. It’s way harder to find good friends than to find good cars. There is no way he purposely recommended a bad car to you. Somewhere, somebody even got that one Toyota Corolla with an issue…
I have seen plenty of Corollas with issues. Their reputation is more bulletproof than the cars themselves.Which are certainly not unreliable by any means
Ironically, the worst vehicle I purchased was an Outback! We bought a year certified-used 2007 Outback (manual, 2.5i). In 3 years and 40k miles (20k to 60k) the head gaskets blew after replacing several radiator caps under warranty, replaced 3 wheel bearings, replaced 2 cv joints due to heat from catalytic converter, replaced rear end seal, and a couple other minor items.
Head gasket was replaced under warranty, but we were 200+ miles from home and not close to any town. We limped along for several hours, luckily between snow storms! My wife did not trust it.
I loved how it drove in Idaho roads but on the interstate it struggled. Partly due to the fact that the manual is permanent 50:50 AWD.
Sold it, disclosing all repairs, to a former coworker in Sun Valley for only $5k less than I paid. We went back to Honda (formerly had an Integra, 3.2TL, currently an Accord) for the main vehicle. But now, we miss exploring and looking to add a 4Runner to the fleet.
Yeah, I don’t think purchasing an Outback would have been dodging the bullet so to speak. Yes it almost certainly wouldn’t have had issues with it shutting off due to electrical gremlins, nor the dash and lighting issues. However it certainly had the potential to leave one stranded when a head gasket went. The Loyale was known for short CV joint and wheel bearing life at the time and unfortunately the Legacy based vehicles inherited that trait and some got the wonderful head gasket eating engines to add to the fun.
Oh yeah, I can attest to the Loyale CV joint issue. I never had the wheel bearing problem with the three Loyales that my ex and I had, but they ate CV joints like college students at Steak Night. I had transmission problems with two of the Loyales. The last one broke the auto tranny so badly that they had to ship another one from Japan. By slow boat apparently as it took six weeks for that one to be resolved.
The Subaru dealer was also a Nissan dealer and they loaned us an Altima. The ex and I took a lot of road trips during that six weeks! But..I jumped to NIssan because of that terrific dealer and am now on my 5th one. I don’t like the CVT in it so I’ll be shopping elsewhere next time since it seems ALL Nissans use the CVT now.
A god writeup, looking forward to the next one .
The ig. switch failure at night, could have been deadly, you were right in dumping it .
-Nate
Ah the gauge issue…. I remember it well, when I was working at both a GMC and Chevy dealership, we would have several Blazers and Jimmys a month with this issue. It was a an issue with Circuit 241 in the VCM connector if I remember correctly. This is the wire that tells the VCM(Vehicle Control Module) that the vehicle is being started or running. If it is open then the VCM thinks the vehicle is being started so no gauges, headlights or dash lights would come on( if you start a 1990’s-2000’s GM car, you will see that for a split second when you are starting the car all lights and gauges are out. It also would cause it to stall.
This affected the 98-00 Jimmy, Blazer, Sonoma, Bravada and the full size Sierra and Silverado.
Sadly GM did not figure the issue out until about 2003(and released a belated TSB) when a lot of them were dumped due to the same reason you had. A vehicle can be the nicest one ever made but if you cannot trust it (especially with a young family that needs to ride in it) then it is time to get another vehicle. I would have done the same.
I don’t think you would have liked the 1998 Outback ether, I love Subaru vehicles but the period from the late 1990’s to early 2000’s were not exactly peak Subaru years with head gasket issues(once the head gasket was replaced, there was no need to ever do it again but the trouble is that by the time most folks found out that the HG was blown then it was too late for the engine and the car was scrapped)
Now as for what car purchase I regret the most? it was a 2012 Scion XB. The car itself was not bad and it was quite comfortable to drive. It never stranded me. But the dealership experiences with getting them to take care of warranty work on the car soured me on Toyota. The car had a coolant smell to it from day one (but the dealers I took it to(3) said I would have to pay for diagnostic time (on a brand new car with a full warranty no less). The final straw came when the automatic shifter knob stripped out. It seems that the shifter knob had brittle plastic threads. Now mind you this was for an automatic transmission so you only touched it to reverse, drive or park so it was well taken care of.
Toyota said they would not cover it as it was cosmetic(how a stripped out shifter knob is cosmetic I will never know) Toyota USA and Scion USA would not help me so I ordered the shifter knob for $50 at the local Toyota dealer. 2 days later it arrived, I put it on and drove the car down to the local Kia dealership and traded it in (with less then 13,000 miles) on a Forte and never looked back. That Forte gave me good service until it was rear ended by a idiot.
The Kia dealership I bought the car from sells a lot of cars but they treated me very well.
I can comfortably say I will never ever ever buy another Toyota. There are just too many good alternatives
Toyota, and the Japanese, have a knack for sweeping issues under the rug so quick that nobody notices them. A friend bought a new ’88 Celica Supra, and on a cross country trip from Boston to SF, it threw a rod in one of the flyover states, with about only 3K miles on it. Toyota reps were at his hotel room, 8am the NEXT DAY with a check for the car or a voucher for any new rig at the local Toyota dealer. Took the voucher, got a 4WD pickup that he put a billion trouble free miles on.
My Cougar came with a Nokia portable phone sort of like that, the only blemish in the otherwise nice and clean 60,000 mile interior. It took a new dashboard and center console to fix the damage from the mounting bracket, and a bunch of time tracing back of the various antenna/mic/speaker tap wires, and repairing the nasty tape splices in the ignition switch wiring. UGH.
Can’t share any regrets, since I’ve only had 2 cars that have been good to me. My best friend’s mom had a succession of Blazers from the 80s up to this generation though and the qualities became quite apparent when her next vehicle was a Lexus RX. The whole family was dyed in the wool GM, all their cars were, his Dad had Corvettes, and even ran a small business with a fleet of Astro work vans. No more. Now they have Transits and his work pickup is a Tacoma.
The Windstar we had came with a mounted phone, but thankfully they used a bracket specifically for that vehicle that slipped in under the trim surrounding the Radio and HVAC controls. Now we did have it activated and used it for a number of years, but when it was time for it to go it was as simple as pulling the trim removing the screws and bracket and then replacing the screws and trim piece as they utilized existing screws to mount the bracket. I don’t remember a issure with the wiring, I think they may have used fuse taps. I did leave the antenna and its wiring in place though.
The name Jimmy was trucker slang for GMC that dates back to at least the early 50s. A time when GMC had a huge presence in the heavy duty and long haul trucking industry. The term is used in many of the old truck driver songs of the era as well as Pete, Kenny, and Mack.
You did yourself a favor bailing out of it at 75k miles while it still had good resale . The higher mileage ones proved to be nice cash cows for the repair industry. Mainly ball joints, intake gaskets,oil leaks, cooling system, and AC leaks.
“I just passed a Jimmy and a White
I’m passin’ everything in sight
Six days on the road and I’m gonna make it home tonight”.
It was a 2000 Jimmy (in the same pewter color) that turned me away from GM.
The only car I have ever purchased and really regretted doing so had more to do with me than the car itself. I traded my 1988 Mustang GT convertible (a car I loved and wished that I had kept) in on a 1995 base model Mustang. The GT was to the point were it needed several thousand dollars worth of repairs and we just didn’t have the money available at that time. The new Mustang had the 3800 V6 and a five speed manual transmission, a combination that was cheap to purchase but made the car totally devoid of any “Mustangness”, to coin a word. We realized that we had made a mistake within the first two weeks of ownership, neither my wife nor I really enjoyed driving or even riding in the car. The capper was a spring break vacation trip (my wife taught high school) to Florida; coming back we got stuck in a massive traffic jam, one that resulted in about three miles of forward progress in an hour. My wife happened to be driving and the continuous ease out the clutch, roll forward just enough to shift to second gear, then stop and repeat ad infinitum was getting on her last nerve. We exited from I75 to eat some lunch and ponder some alternative, of course a lot of other people had the same idea and the three fast food restaurants in the small town were overwhelmed. I know that we didn’t get back on the Interstate so we must have taken US19 up into Georgia or Alabama, time has dropped a curtain on the rest of the trip home. I do know that by the time we got home we would have cheerfully torched the poor Mustang to the ground; in any case it was traded away on another Mustang GT convertible. In retrospect I should have kept the ’88 GT and purchased some beater to drive to work while we saved up the money to get the Mustang back in top condition. Hindsight, what a concept.
As I mentioned before, loving this series. You’re still in my parallel universe as we at the end of 1998 we chose and purchased a new 1998 Explorer XLT V8, also specifically with a cloth interior. Spooky.
The Outback may have been good but I recall at the time, even though Outbacks were selling like hotcakes, SUV’s were really getting in vogue and the off the line power of the Jimmy (or our Explorer) certainly would have compared favorably with any Outback of the time (and probably even still today compared to the current offerings). And I m an Outback fan…
Looking forward to the next few weeks!
Good goats, what a waste. Americans surely do cling to their auto-maintenance religious mythology.
Not all of us.
Without a monitor what is reasonable is probably not clear, as it really depends on the quality of the oil used. The oil monitors are designed with a particular class of oil (either synthetic, or not). My SRX got synthetic and the monitor would give me 12000 to 15000 mile oil change intervals. My CTS is set up for GM oil, semi synthetic, and goes about 7000 to 8000 miles between changes.
I would think that a modern car with a good quality oil should go at least 5000 miles between changes. The owners manual should be helpful in choosing a good interval.
Monitors: some of them are reality-based, others (like the one in my ’07 Accord) are more or less just mileage clocks. One spends $25 for oil analysis a couple times, thereby getting a solid basis for deciding how often to change oil. The answer is just about never “every 3,000 miles” (1957 was sixty years ago) nor “every 5,000 miles” (1987 was thirty years ago).
As for the owner’s manual: if the only consideration is satisfying the manufacturer’s requirements for warranty coverage, sure, but there are a lot of spurious reasons for oil change intervals in the owner’s manual being what they are. Too short an interval and the owner considers the car a high-maintenance picky eater. Too long an interval and the owner thinks the maker’s trying to deliberately wear the car out early, plus the automaker’s OE oil supplier gets testy.
I would expect that this oil analysis would give one answer in the winter stop and go driving; and another answer in the summer for the same driving. My 98 Aurora with an oil monitor for conventional oil would give me 3000 miles in normal driving to and from work in the winter while the summer interval was 4000 miles. A long trip would be 7000 miles.
Well the entire Monkey Lube business is predicated on selling oil changes before they are really needed along with air filters every or every other oil change. So they drill it in to customers that they need to change it every 3 months or 3K miles and use those numbers on the “return for service” sticker.
So you can’t blame it all on the owners, they are just buying what the people are selling.
The other part, which you certainly can blame on the owners, is that very few people ever read their owner’s manual and certainly not the service recommendations. That is why so many believe it when the dealer/Monkey Lube/indepenent tells them that a fuel injector service, engine oil flush, air filter, ect is recommended every XXk miles. Not to mention the whole water pump replacement is replaced every 60k miles as a “normal” maintenance procedure.
Yes, the quicky oil change biz is based on excessive oil changes “if you really love your car”. No, I do not agree that owners aren’t to blame. They’re not using their brains; that’s on them.
I didn’t say that the owner’s weren’t to blame, just not entirely to blame.
Sure that owners manual, if they read it may say X,000 mi, but the Monkey Lube is quick to use the “if you really love your car” or the old “the auto companies want you to buy a new car” lines, which isn’t entirely fictitious.
So faced with conflicting information and a lack of automotive knowledge means that they will default to the person up-selling right in front of them.
The owners manuals probably have a schedule for “severe duty” vs not severe duty. For oil the severe duty would be winter time short trips where contamination by combustion by products build up because the oil does not get hot enough to boil them off. Whereas a long winter time trip will get the oil hot.
Just did the cambelt tensioner rollers and water pump replacement on my daily drive, not sure what the interval from the last time was it was done before I bought it but the water pump was weeping so it was done in time, not a very expensive exercise gates belt kit was just over $100 delivered to my door a genuine waterpump $80 at my local dealer oil changes about every six months air oil and fuel filters at the same time about a $100 a time, turbo diesel car so the oil does get dirty.
I agree, and I don’t do it any longer. But it was my parents’ habit, and grandparents, etc., and you follow the advice you are given. I use all synthetic in my cars now which is good for much longer intervals, but still change a little sooner than advised. I basically go 7,500 or 10,000 miles on everything now. But without giving away my future COALs, my current cars have 10,000, 13,000, and 15,000 factory intervals and I’m just not down with that, especially if it is short, in-town trips with lots of starting and stopping. We’ll explore some of this with a high mileage COAL or two in the future.
My worse car was a new 1995 Saturn SL2 4 door 5 speed. At that time, Saturn had a money back guarantee on their cars.
After one week of use, I asked for and got my money back.
I think Saturn discontinued that guarantee program shortly afterwards.
I guess I was not the only one unhappy with GM’s little experiment.
Funny how you had problems with your Blazer. The first car I remember my parent’s having as a kid was a green 1996 Chevy Blazer. They bought it for the same reasons you did, they wanted a small SUV that was relatively compact. Add in the GM legacy discount courtesy of my grandfather, and it was pretty clear why it ended up in our driveway.
That car gave us 8 years of loyal service, I’m too young to remember any serious problems with it, certainly not the gauge issue you mentioned. Eventually, the radio was stolen, the a/c stopped working, and it became much better to sell it off and get a new car than put more money into it. We ended up getting a 2005 Equinox that I ended up not liking as much. That wasn’t as reliable and we kept it for over 200k as a rolling money pit before my sister got in a wreck and totaled it.
8 years is loyal? That should be just hitting it’s stride!
The ’96 was a far better vehicle than the ’98. No, really.
To Matt W. and Jim, let me clarify my points over the Saturn I bought. When my buddy looked the car over we knew where there were issues. The dealership let us check it out thoroughly. The problem is how it was handled after.
I admit I know just enough about fixing cars to be dangerous as the saying goes. After twenty years my buddy knows this about me. So I rely on him a lot. The although 13 years old the Saturn was the second newest model year car I have owned.
I knew the car had a touchy fuel pump. I figured it would have to be replaced. Never having replaced an electric fuel pump before I knew they were more than the old style but was not expecting to be handed a $700 bill after the fact. Same with being told after I bought it it needs a timing belt ( a v-6 with a timing belt?) and a special tool which I have to buy for him to do the work. And the list went on.
My regret is not so directly in buying the car. I did and still do like the car. My regret with buying that particular car was the problems after. You guys that are more mechanical may think different, but if you have been working on someone’s cars for twenty years you should have some idea of their knowledge level and that jumping to a much newer vehicle might mean explaining the cost of newer technology rather than saying it’s not a big deal to fix it then wondering why they were upset at the cost.
I know he didn’t deliberately recommend a bad car. But if I had known how much more expensive and complicated these things were I probably would have gone for something cheaper and older technology. Like the Dodge mini van I now drive.
As mechanic and shop owner of 18 years, I believe you are being completely unreasonable in holding your friend accountable for any part of it. After reading your reply, as a matter of fact, I believe you may owe him an apology. You are placing the blame of your own ignorance on your friend. You are obviously able to use a computer to post on this site, why didn’t you search google for common problems, cost of the fuel pump, service intervals (for the timing belt) and the like?
The very first vehicle I sold in my nascent auto sales career (in January 1997) was a leftover ’96 Blazer LS four-door 4WD. It was the very first new vehicle the young family had ever owned, they bought it at invoice, and I left the lot that day (my first on the floor) feeling like I’d done something good for someone.
Four days later, the transmission crapped out on them. The damn thing didn’t even have 500 miles on it.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too badly. You did a deal in good faith, and it’s not your fault that the best intentions were undercut by an unreliable product.
I don’t really regret any of my vehicle purchases, because despite all the issues that any vehicle may have(all vehicle have design flaws in them), most of the vehicles I owned were reliable ones and some of them got really great mpg.
My 1995 SC2 averages 34-35mpg while burning oil, it is also the quickest ¼-mile car I have owned, WITH Autotragic 4-speed AND a blown engjne.
My 1992 Honda Accord was damn near bulletproof
The 1992 Camaro RS averaged 24-27mpg with a V-6 and a 700-r4.(3.23 at the rear)
Even my K-cars weren’t too bad, despite how many of them would blow engines(which K-cars were often called “Rod Knockers” by many mechanics). I didn’t get amazing performance or gas mileage, but I can say I got lucky with mine and didn’t blow the engines.
Worst car I ever bought was a 1989 Hyundai Excel GL. First week I had it, the door handle popped off into the palm of my hand; dashboard switchgear rattled and sometimes broke off. Engine was woefully sluggish, making for frightening merges onto Houston freeways. Turning the steering wheel was a man’s job, and after going thru two bum thermostats, I sold it for next to nothing, warning the poor kid buying that this was no Civic or Accord or even Sunfire/Cavalier.
I remember that heavy early-Excel steering, having encountered it on a test drive. It led me to check the tire pressures, double-check under the hood to visually confirm the car was factory-equipped with manual steering and I wasn’t fighting a dead power steering pump, and not buy the car.
1991 Chrysler LeBaron sedan. Oh my, what a POS. It shook like a reducing machine and rattled like catanettes. The interior was only half screwed together because half the bolts, screws and fasteners were MIA. The A/C generally preferred to take long siestas in hot afternoons. The V6 engine blew its head gaskets. Chrysler and its dealers were a very sorry lot. The Ultramatic transmission failed three times. I was reluctant to drive the car any further from home than I could walk back. The last transmission failure happened 9 months into ownership of this then-new car. With a great deal of drama the transmission suddenly determined that 2nd gear “limp home” mode was appropriate for 70 MPH freeway cruising. Unfortunately, the car couldn’t go that fast in 2nd gear. Broke down within sight of a Nissan dealer. Drove home in a new Nissan. Have not even considered a Chrysler product in at least 25 years, and its highly unlikely I’ll live long enough to change my mind.
My first car (as I’ve said many times here) was a Honda and a lemon. 19 years later were going to look at Honda again for our next car. Things change and it is silly to not do things a certain way because of what happened 20 years ago. Heck, if people looked at 20 years ago for everything no one in the US would have ever bought a VW. (And yes, even a couple GMs are on the table for next year.)
Looking back, I have been fortunate in never popping for a new vehicle that develops a major unsolvable problem early in life.
Oh wait, my 85 VW GTI that would soak the rear carpet in every rainstorm. But that was more annoyance than dangerous.
What gets me is a dealer denying that you have an issue. Surely they knew that other cars were doing the same thing. It seems to me that most customers would rather get “They know about the issue and they are trying to get to the bottom of it” than “this is normal” or “we can’t duplicate the problem”.
The plastic rain shield behind the door panels had a bad habit of ungluing themselves and shrinking. The rain would then follow the backside of the door card and leak onto the floor. I remember ordering lots of these shields under warranty back in the day. My ’86 Jetta had the same problem. The replacement’s were no better, thick bulk plastic and careful trimming and gluing is required to stop the leaks long term.
Interesting. This is what gripes me about dealers – your dealer understood the issue and dealt with it over and over. Mine (if memory serves) focused on the rear window rubber seal or the sunroof drain and never did solve the issue. You and I both know that service bulletins are widely available, but in those days before the interwebs, we customers were at the mercy of a service department that might or might not be interested in researching the problem, especially by the third visit!
Hmmm….I guess with your logic, when I got rid of my 1987 Honda Accord after one year and fewer than 10,000 miles because it was an absolute piece of crap, I would have sworn off Honda products forever. But I didn’t and I had a 1992 Acura Integra that I absolutely loved. You got 75,000 miles out of that Jimmy. At some point, we’re all on borrowed time.
It did come out during the Carter presidency, didn’t it?
Worst car for me? 79 Audi Fox. Used. In 84 or 85? Can’t remember the mileage, but the day I made the FIRSt PAYMENT, the auto trans went belly up. Then there were the electrical gremlins – fuel injection related – no one could figure it out. No local VW/Audi mechanics or dealership. The CV joints (a maintenance item, but still an expense). The AC would work occasionally. Sometimes it would blow hot at the floor and cold at the top. The brake system weakened too and no amount of parts thrown at it would make it as good as it should be. It drove well and was fun when it ran. But I knew the flat bed guy’s number by heart.
Best car so far? 2001 Aurora – should have been a worst car according to many. It would occasionally not want to start. And when it did – it always did, the tach would read funny (4K at idle, zero at speed). Turned out to be cam sensor. Easy fix. Never left me stranded because of mechanical issues. I did puncture 3 of the 4 good tires on it within 6 months of buying. Not the car’s fault. Bought it at 124K and traded (stupidly) at 210K. Had a ground wire issue and had to have the clockspring (? I think) in the steering wheel replaced. Random issues. Changed oil when the monitor said to which was always at least 5K miles. My daily commute was 17 miles one way and on weekends, 180 miles home and 180 miles back on Sunday night. So not a lot of short hops.
I haven’t bought a new car for myself since 2003 (Nissan Frontier). My Ex still has her new 2003 Pontiac GP (daughter drives it) and it’s still mostly reliable, but getting some issues.
I can’t see avoiding any brand necessarily. HOWEVER, I do not buy cars or motorcycles that don’t have a local dealer, just in case I need them and they are competent enough to do the work (unlikely around here). The garage I use has former GM mechanics with all the diagnostic equipment and experience to figure stuff out, no matter the make. They kept my Olds going on the few issues mentioned without being hard to get along with – local former Olds dealer wanted nothing to do with anything out of warranty.
I had a BMW motorcycle – too expensive and dealer was 60 miles away. You learn to wrench it yourself. And hope you don’t break anything (carry extra shift linkage with you – seriously?)
And so it goes. Interesting articles – I love the COAL series – all of them. My favorites since they are first hand accounts.
Extra shift linkage? I’m guessing K1200LT, unless another model was inflicted with that. Mine has been laid up waiting for its second clutch and slave cylinder.
I had a 1996 Jimmy 4 dr similar to your COAL, and it is also the worst car I ever owned. One week after I took it home from the dealer, the driver side door wouldn’t close. The hinges were failing and it nearly fell off. I drove (slowly) to the dealership with one arm out the window holding the door closed.
Having owned a 1997 Blazer for over a decade, if you work on them, you become intimate with them. You learn details the general public might miss…
ESPECIALLY if you buy another like it, like the 2000 Jimmy we got for my wife a decade ago.
The Jimmy suffered similar maladies to the ’98 in this story; it would just cut out, out of nowhere. And then it couldn’t be restarted. I think it was the wiring to the ignition module that sat upon a mount on the upper intake manifold. The dealer who sold it to me was a neighbor who’d worked on it extensively, even putting a new engine in it before I bought it.
He refunded my money.
If it’s not the worst ride we owned, it’s definitely Top 3. Gotta remember I once owned a ’72 Vega.
My ’97 had intermittent ignition switch issues where it would cut out and come right back. I replaced the switch and that cured it. Drove another 150,000 miles in fact…true, virtually every drivetrain part – except the transfer case – had been replaced over the eleven years it was driven daily, but it went for over 300k and in the end, it had cost less to buy and run than a lot of other vehicles I could have chosen. I truly enjoyed it.
If it wasn’t the BEST ride we owned…it’s definitely Top 3.
But I noticed many differences between my ’97 and my wife’s 2000.
Those S-10/Sonoma/Blazer/Jimmy etc. all received a makeover for 1998. They also must have changed suppliers on the rubber trim at the bottom of the side windows. My wife’s – and countless others I’ve noticed over the years – curl up and have to be pushed back down in. Never a problem on either my ’97…or the ’95 I owned for a brief time several years ago.
They also made the underhood wiring thinner. I don’t think they cut down on the insulation, I think they made the wires a thinner gauge. I noticed this a couple years ago when I was contemplating selling my ’97. It was getting rusty and I’d already bought the Tahoe I currently drive (and love) a few months before in a moment of what can only be described as Divine Intervention. Anyway, the wiring to the ignition module was becoming suspect and I began looking for an underhood harness I could pull out of a junker.
Turned out the 95, 96 and 97 harnesses had enough unique qualities to each that to be same, I needed to find another 1997 harness – which I did. By this time I was paying others to work on it; I had no time myself. Eventually it was running again but now needs fuel lines. I swapped it to a neighbor’s kid for some help digging out my sewer pipes.
I’m convinced those ’98s were extensively decontented and the problems lingered for the rest of the models’ run.
As for your not buying the Outback? Think of the head gasket issues you avoided, head gasket issues endemic to ALMOST. EVERY. FREAKING. 2.5-EQUIPPED. SUBARU. UNTIL. 2011. (Paul, I know this wasn’t your Subie experience, and I still marvel that your ’01 2.5 didn’t have this issue!)
Anyway, Subaru DID change the design about 2003. So instead of leaking into the engine, they leaked out.
Lyin, dyin’.
We took the above-mentioned refund from the ’00 Jimmy and bought a ’98 Outback that looked like a dead ringer for the one in the above picture. Fortunately the extended warranty we’d bought covered the head gaskets, and they replaced them with FelPros so the issue was truly fixed.
My worst car: 1995 Ford Escort wagon
It was 1997, and I was 2 years into a major commute for work (which continues to this day, though there was a 10-year reprieve with a recently-rescinded telecommute situation), fresh out of grad school and driving a 1988 Mustang LX 5.0. I had also started chasing the dream of being a drummer, and between wanting to keep the 100,000-mile Mustang, needing something that could more easily haul a set of drums, and shooting for better fuel economy, I took up a co-worker’s offer to buy her wagon. I forget now how much I paid for it, but ultimately I’d have been better off shoe-horning the drums into the Mustang for at least another few months until I found a better deal!
The car was a symphony of smells, thanks to it being an infant/toddler-hauler in its first 2 years of life, sour milk and dirty diaper being the most prominent, especially on hot days. But then I started noticing a different smell – something more industrial. At a little over 36,000 miles – just out of the powertrain warranty – the automatic transmission ate itself. Fortunately, my brother-in-law at the time was a Ford service manager, and got me a full-warranty replacement. All was good again! Until, 30,000 miles later – the smell returned. I thought, “not again!” I talked to my brother-in-law about it and he said they were having a major run on Escort automatic transmission failures, due to some kind of coating Ford was putting on the inside of the housing, which was deteriorating and destroying the transmissions. That’s what he told me, anyway. (Apparently, Ford quietly either changed the coating or stopped using it, altogether, but never publicly acknowledged any of it. Then again, I have known people to have no problem at all getting high mileage out of mid-90s automatic Escorts…)
So, I drove on, dreading the day the transmission failed again, expecting to put a good $3000 into a replacement, when, one day, just about home from work, it shuddered and sputtered and quit completely. I had it hauled into my usual repair shop and got the verdict the next day: thrown connecting rod, which knocked a big hole in the block!
At a little over 60,000 miles, it was dead. I got 3 years and about 40,000 miles out of it.
You know why Nintendo released Pokemon Go?
It was to done, so Ford owners would have some entertainment on their walk home……
Good one!