Sometimes our life go through some radical changes, but maybe most of the changes we experience are incremental, smooth or even not perceptible at the exact time. Another dimension of a change is how we come to actually like or dislike them, i.e. sometimes real outcomes doesn’t follow prejudgments. The changes of cars we choose to make (or are obliged to) can be analog to that. This is the story of a 2009 VW Voyage Comfortline, a change that was supposed to be a forward evolution on my automotive side of life. Perhaps it was a matter of excessive expectations, but for the first time for me a change of cars turned out to be rather disappointing.
In the second half of the 2000’s my life went to huge transitions in several grounds. First, a new job offer I accepted. Getting that new job meant moving back to my home town of São Paulo after more than 3 years studying / working away. A third change happened two years after I moved back: I went to live with my then girlfriend now wife.
When I moved back to São Paulo I owned a Chevrolet Corsa (see COAL here). Two years later when I moved to live with my girlfriend we decided one car was enough for our needs. It was faster and more rational to go to work by subway so the car would be used mainly at weekends. Also, all the expenses associated to a second car would be a burden to us, including the extra cost to lease an apartment with garage for two cars in the neighborhood we wanted to live. That sole car would be my Corsa.
But eventually these changes reflected in the automotive territory too. After one year we had settled together we decided to go for a new, bigger and more comfortable car. I’d been longing to own a more powerful car after more than a decade driving small hatchbacks with 1.0 liter engines. So it was going to be not just another change of cars but a change of paradigms, not to talk about a big lap of price level.
I had always wanted to buy a station wagon but the ones I really liked were more than 15 years old so didn’t check one of our requirements (see a 1992 Chevrolet Caravan Diplomata above… maybe one day I can grab me one). There were new station wagon choices available too, but above the price range we could afford. We made our mind about the four door sedans based on the smaller hatchbacks available on the market.
2008 Fiat Siena
That kind of car has been getting a considerable market share in Brazil. They combine almost the same fuel economy, (theoretically) low maintenance costs and overall performance of the hatchbacks they’re based on, adding more trunk space for usually a little bit higher price.
2008 Renault Logan
1993 VW Voyage Sport
2009 VW Voyage Comfortline
For those not familiar with the Brazilian VW lineup, there’s 2 completely different Voyage. The original model was built between 1982 and 1994. That was the one exported to USA as VW Fox. The original Voyage had longitudinal powertrain and most of then were sold as 2 door, with only a few sold as 4 door. The 1995 Voyage sold in Brazil was imported from Argentina, but that was it’s last breath until rebirth in 2008 based on the new generation Gol.
2009 VW Voyage Comfortline
My own 2009 VW Voyage Comfortline (the one in the first picture)
We got one with the 1.6 liter top trim Comfortline. It was reasonably well equipped for a Brazilian car: power windows on all doors, power mirrors, flip key with keyless entry and locking, keyless opening trunk and windows, alarm, fog lights, fully carpeted interior and trunk, 195/55 tyres on 15 inch steel wheels (alloys where optional), A/C (optional, IIRC), and some other minor amenities.
Neither of these comfort features were available in any of my former cars. Another important distinction of the Voyage compared to my then current Chevrolet Corsa was fuel: the Voyage was “flexfuel”, i.e. could burn gas or alcohol in any proportion, the Corsa burned only gas. That would give me a reduction in fuel expenses because in the estate of São Paulo alcohol generally allows for a lower fuel cost per mile than gas.
VW Voyage interior (the same as mine except for the steering wheel)
The car was fast and stable on the highways and smart on city traffic. But it had it downsides, like the seats which were hard, pretty similar to the ones on VWs of the late 1990’s. Combined with the “sporty” suspension, that made for tiring long drives. That was not all: I had a few problems with electrical failures. The first was the rear doors windows electric engine, which broke less than 1 month after I got the car. It was fixed by the dealer under warranty, which let’s me to other big hassle in owning a new VW.
With around 2 years old one of the front doors power window engine broke. With less than 50 thousand km the Voyage was making more strange noises than my earlier car, giving a sensation it was not very well built. At the time we bought it I thought about driving it for a very long time, like 10 years, but that didn’t happen for various reasons.
I hope the top photo has the Civic you replaced it with in the background! Those are great cars.
Actually I replaced it with another Honda, a CR-V, because at the time I needed a lot more cargo room… a matter of family growth ( that was a short time when I went through a more favorable economic situation)
Anyway I would enjoy very much to own a Civic, especially previous generations like the one in the back of the picture. Unfortunately In Brazil these cars are much more expensive than the Voyage. Even the Fit or it’s sedan sibling, the City, are pricier than the Voyage and other small sedans.
I can say I like Honda a lot, one of my favorite car brands. I hope I can afford one soon!
And the HR-V is also very expensive but it sells like hotcakes with the CUV craze…
That is always the gamble with a new car – we are all familiar with stories about cars that were well built and good . . . until that one year or that one new model that wasn’t. Reputation only goes so far and sometimes reality hits hard that a car is no longer living up to a good reputation.
I have been fortunate here, but then I have bought very few new cars. Come to think of it, my worst new car was . . . a Volkswagen.
Good looking car. From some angles looks like a NA Chevy Cobalt. The Fiat Siena is not bad looking either.
Sounds like you made a reasoned, practical decision that came back to bite you. Best laid men and plans….. or something like that.
That was my impression of the Voyage and the Siena, too.
I’ve read about the costly taxes placed on cars in Brazil. There is also the VW Vento sold in Mexico which is a little bigger than the Voyage/Gol. However, I think it’s made in India so it would be subjected to a heavy import tax in Brazil. I am impressed that VW did not use a black plastic filler panel for the tiny rear quarter window area.
Hyundai uses!
Another tale of a VW owner’s regret. I liked his description of the dealer’s service dept. – “The guys treated you like they were making a big favor” Yes! That was exactly the attitude I encountered at my local VW dealer here in Ontario.
“The guys treated you like they were making a big favor”
VW dealers in the US had a terrible reputation for years. Maybe the steadily falling sales caused a bit of introspection on their part. So far, 3 1/2 years in with my Jetta wagon, the two dealers I have dealt with have been fine. A friend bought a Golf from a different dealer last year and his experience with that dealer has been excellent as well.
Meanwhile, I have seen blistering complaints about Skoda dealers in India, and the President of Skoda India on TV business programs promising to improve the dealer experience for customers. In India, Skoda is positioned as a “value luxury” brand.
VW dealers are all pond scum-Actually all dealers are, but VW dealers are the cream of the scum!
Yep, my brother has the same issue with his Mexican-built New Beetle that his ex-wife bought, drove, then dumped it at him after the divorce. It was one of the most trouble-prone and unreliable cars he had ever owned. Having it serviced at the Volkswagen seemed to make things worse. After the warranty expired, he did all of maintenance work, including acquiring the OBD reader to diagnose the issues.
But…
He noticed the huge difference between ones for the US market and ones for European market. The US version has lot of cheaper and lower quality parts as to keep the price down. The European version has more of higher quality German-made parts. My brother started to replace the trouble-prone Mexican parts with ones from Germany.
The frequent stalling issue was due to smaller fuel sender with design flaw. He ordered the German-made part, which was substantially larger. Ever since, the car has been so reliable and enjoyable to drive.
I find this COAL series very interesting, as it intrigues me to compare car culture in different areas of the world. This particular installment is interesting to me because the first brand new car I ever bought and financed on my own, after a long string of used cars with more power, more amenities and more prestige, was 1 ’96 Nissan Sentra GXE. It compares very closely with the subject car, in that it was a 1.6 litre engine, 5 speed manual transmission, with the same level of creature comforts (the now usual power stuff, cruise control, etc).
For me at the time, during the SUV boom years of the 90’s this car was a necessary evil. It was at the low end of the automotive pecking order, and while I treated it with care and respect it was never a car that I really wanted to own. It interests me to contrast my experience with that car with the author’s experience with a very similarly spec’d car in a very different automotive market. In my case I still to date consider that Sentra the best car purchase I ever made, as I sold it at almost 6 years old with well over 200k on it, still sporting its original battery and clutch. Best car I ever didn’t want to own. I’m always tempted to pat myself on the back for that purchase, but had it not been for economics I’d surely have bought something less smart and more troublesome. Where the similarities to my own experiences come in is with the author’s ownership experience with this new aspirational ‘upgrade’ car. To this very day when I recall any of the cars that I actually bought because I just had to have them, each and every one of them was a nightmare in its own right. As much as I lust after plenty of vehicles, I’ve learned to let my next vehicle find me when the time is right. It’s the only way I can ever expect the ownership experience to be anything other than a complete headache. As an example of this automotive spin on Murphy’s Law one need go no further than yesterday’s Sport Beetle post right here on CC.
Reputation. Get one as an early riser and you can sleep until noon.
Our sales office has 3 assigned vehicles, my Chevy SS/Holden, a VW Passat and a Dodge Caravan. All a couple years old. Based in reputation, I’d expect the Dodge to be the most trouble followed by my SS with the VW the least trouble.
While none of these cars has really been trouble, the other day I was complaining that my SS had been recalled for a 5th time. The latest recall was a safety recall for possible power steering failure. Not the type of thing you leave for the next scheduled service. Imagine my surprise when my colleague with the VW told me I was lucky as his car already was on the 6th recall. The guy with the Caravan? A single recall.
Sometimes the past just isn’t a good predictor of the future.
The latest recall was a safety recall for possible power steering failure. Not the type of thing you leave for the next scheduled service. Imagine my surprise when my colleague with the VW told me I was lucky as his car already was on the 6th recall. The guy with the Caravan? A single recall.
The current gen Caravan is 10 years old. One would hope they have it sorted out by now.
On the other hand, FCA has earned a reputation for being slow to execute even government ordered safety recalls.
So the Caravan’s lack of recalls may be due to the maturity of the product, and/or Marchionne’s reluctance to spend a penny on anything, including recalls.
My Jetta wagon, now 3 1/2 yeas old, has never been recalled for anything. But then it’s based on the Mk V Jetta sedan, which came out in 06. Over the years VW has addressed the early Mk V issues with premature timing chain wear, vac pump oil leak and door wire harnesses that fatigue and break.
I don’t know where this notion of high VW quality came from. Since the switch to liquid cooling and front drive, VW’s have tended to have a very poor reputation, which kept me away from them until the car I have now, which looked to have been sorted out finally.
Continuous improvement used to be a thing at VW. Keep building the same car and work the weaknesses out of it, rather than junking the entire thing for a clean sheet design every few years.
Thank you for this interesting review.
VW’s have long been a mystery to me (and now that I think about it, perhaps German cars in general). The VW designs are tremendous, but the cars always seem to have some quality quirk that makes them maddening.
I guess (would hope) that those days are behind them now, however if the demands from senior management for cost cutting were as intensive as their demands for cheap diesel pollution control technology, it may take a few more years for improvement to show up.
1992 Chevrolet Caravan Diplomata above
drool…
Me, too!
Early Gol/Voyage G5 were plagued by problems. I read some Brazilian blogs and I heard the facelifted G6 has been solid…
Anyway, hope the replacement was a Civic or a Corolla… Or have you decided to give a Renault Fluence or an MK2 Logan a go? Well, better wait til next week!
Thanks for giving us an inside look at car ownership in Brazil. It’s always fascinating to see how different things (and the cars are), yet so much is also similar.
That comfortline looks like an MKIV Jetta. Wasn’t this sold in Canada as well?
Greg
I belive the “new” Voyage has been exported to Latin America, mostly, and the last Brazilian model sold in Canada was the Golf from 2000 to 2009.
Aside from other business environment deficiencies, our currency exchange rate has been cronically unstable, a real roller coaster, making export projects a nightmare not only to automobile companies but the whole manufacturing industry.
1993 VW Voyage Sport and Gol GTI: early 90’s Classics!
I can confirm that here in Europe VW reliability has taken a nose dive since the early 2000s, and from what I hear from my Israeli sources, dealer service over there is nothing to get excited about.
I like the design of the Gol a lot, not so much the Voyage. My impression (I’m from Chile) is that Brazilian (or in general South American cars) are at best in their basic version. It looks like they are designed from the beginning as such, with all gadgets as “add-ons”. European/Japanese/American cars appear to be the other way around: it looks like they were designed from the beginning as loaded versions.
Of course this is just subjective and there might be a lot of examples to prove I am wrong.
Sad to hear you had to deal with those (luckily small) problems and with a bad service quality.
I’ve driven Gols as rentals many times. I found them to be far better than other cheap rentals such as the Spark, but not as good as a small Japanese hatchback such as the Suzuki Swift, which is also quite popular as a rental car over here (and has a very similar price).
We even considered a 2014 Gol as an alternative when searching for a small car for my wife, but we finally decided to buy a 2015 Suzuki Celerio, which is doing pretty well.
Sorry to hear your VW was so disappointing. It sounds like you had a very “American” VW experience (consistent with our 2006 Passat). It was funny to see your earlier perception of the brand–it was like an backwards universe where VW was the quality choice!
We made our choice knowing that VWs were unreliable, which is why we chose to lease the Passat. We enjoyed it for 3 years, and we were also quite pleased to be rid of it as soon as the warranty expired. On a good day, dealership service was friendly but incompetent. On a bad day, it was hostile and incompetent.
We replaced it with a Hyundai Genesis in 2009. Not a good idea!
Finally the CC effect hit me! Ive just came back from a VW/Skoda dealership, where Ive spent some time looking over the lineup. Our version of the Voyage is called Polo Sedan, it is a different design inside and outside, however it is virtually the same car.
https://www.drive.ru/brands/volkswagen/models/2010/polo_sedan
Also I just made an advance payment on a Skoda Rapid. Do you get them in Brazil?
No we don’t have Skodas in Brazil, BTW I think they are nice. I find their design more faithful to the VW roots of rationality and function over form than today’s VW’s. Are you in Russia ? Are these Skodas built there or imported?
I find their design more faithful to the VW roots of rationality and function over form than today’s VW’s.
The US market Jetta looks about the same inside as the Rapid. The Octavia looks to be moving upmarket right along with VW.
I saw an article recently that, with both VW and Skoda moving upmarket, VAG is thinking about establishing a new entry level brand to take over the space that VW and, increasingly Skoda, are moving above.
Here’s a recent Octavia instrument panel. Looks at least as upmarket as my previous generation Jetta wagon.
Then I should reconsider it. Perhaps even Dacia in Europe soon will try this “moving upmarket” strategy.
Maybe VW’s bosses think rainsing prices have a high correlation to making better cars. At least for the Brazilian VW’s it’s not working, as they lost market leadership long ago and never went back to the top.
In my eyes VW of Brazil has something in common with GM in America.
In my eyes VW of Brazil has something in common with GM in America.
I agree. VW’s diesel emissions cheating comes from the same sort of hubris that we have see at GM. Both companies have gone from dominating their markets in the US to near ruin with a seeming attitude that they can turn out any sort of shoddy product and people will buy it, repeatedly. I liked the looks of the Mk IV Golf, but building cars with simple things going chronically wrong, like window regulators or ignition coils, or timing belts, is inexcusable.
I think VW is headed for some sort of an identity crisis. They want to move upmarket, because luxury cars are more profitable, but in some markets, they are still building small, inexpensive cars. That blurs exactly what the VW brand stands for.
This is the interior of the 2011 Mk VI Jetta. The fuel gauge is on the tiny information center screen between the speedo and tach. No temp gauge. The Mk VI reverted to a beam axle in back from the Mk V’s independent setup. The Mk VI reverted to drum brakes in back. A lot of the Mk VI interior is cheap, hard, plastic. It is not a nice place to be. I have driven Mk VIs in both the bottom S trim and the more upmarket SE trim and hated every minute of it.
The Jetta has been priced below the Golf. It’s their best seller in the US. Jettas are exported to Europe, but they hardly register on the sales charts, sitting at 25th in the C segment, rarely selling more than 1,000 examples in a month vs. 6-7000 for the Rapid. 20,000/month for the Octavia and 40,000/month for the Golf.
Here is the article saying VW will introduce a new, entry level brand in China in 2019. The first models are supposed to be a sedan and CUV built on the old Mk V Golf platform. After China, the brand is expected to be introduced in Russia, Brazil, India and North Africa.
The article says US availability of the new brand is unlikely, but it seems VAG management perceives similarities between the US and Chinese markets as the extra large Passat and the large Atlas SUV are only available in North America and China.
The new brand is, at present, unnamed. I wonder if they will try to revive NSU. You wouldn’t think there would be enough of us old geezers who remember the NSU Prinz to bother with, but sticking a recognizable German name on it would give the car instant credibility.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/volkswagen-to-launch-lowcost-brand-in-2019-94671.html
“hubris”
you nailed it. that pretty much summarizes it all.
Outside Brazil few people may know about it, but check out the case of some owners who got fingers wiped out by the VW Spacefox rear seat:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5YOoJ3QdQY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Or2WjAwrGhE
the recall took 8 years
Yes I am. Rapid, Octavia and Yeti are built here.
All major low budget brands have their factories- Ford, PSA, Renault (BTW the Logan is a Renault here too). GM closed their factory here about 2 years ago, now their main operations for the ex-USSR are in Uzbekistan aiming at the ultra low budget market segment with the Ravon brand. FIAT was around too, but it wasnt popular, so now its gone.
And yes, I agree that Skoda design is nice. Their cars are also very practical.
Ive just came back from a VW/Skoda dealership,
So they sell VW and Skoda under the same roof in Russia? Interesting. VW in the US has been trying to push upmarket. Interiors in the new Golfs are very nice. The next generation Jetta is expected to also move upmarket. The dealers have been objecting to a more expensive Jetta as they like the volume they get from the cheap ones of the last few years.
There was a great deal of interest a couple years ago when VW registered the Skoda brand as well as Rapid and Octavia here. Speculation was that Skoda would be the low priced option here to pacify the dealers objecting to the loss of the cheap Jetta.
The Rapid and Octavia are both built in India, which, depending on the US’ trade position with India, might give them a cost advantage over Mexican built VWs.
Which Rapid did you get, the hatchback, which looks like a sedan in profile, or the Spaceback, which has a hatchback profile? I find the Spaceback particularly interesting.
VW and Skoda are not generally sold under the same roof, but this particular dealer sells both. However, VAG has 2 factories in Russia: Kaluga (Polo Sedan, Rapid, Tiguan) and Nizhniy Novgorod (Octavia, Jetta, Yeti). So VW and Skoda are actually built under one roof here.
I got the Liftback (which looks like a sedan in profile). The Spaceback is not available in our market.
I agree with you, Skoda would probably be a good addition to the US market with the VW brand aiming upmarket.
VW and Skoda are not generally sold under the same roof, but this particular dealer sells both.
Thanks for the clarification. When there was a lot of discussion among the media here about the possibility of Skoda being introduced in the US market the two objections were the cost of setting up another dealer network and promoting an unknown brand, and the fact that a network of Skoda dealers would not help the existing VW dealers compensate for the loss of the cheap Jetta. The obvious solution to both of those objections would be for Skoda to be dualed with VW in the existing dealers. When Audi was first introduced in the US around 1970, it was dualed with Porsche.
Now, with the bargain brand given the go ahead for the Chinese market, and the first offerings to be a 4 door sedan and a CUV, which are the body styles most popular in the US, I would not be surprised to see the bargain brand arrive in the US, in VW dealers, to replace the cheap Jetta, instead of Skoda.
Here in Portugal there is also more than one VW+Skoda dealer. Octavia sells much more than both Rapid and Spaceback. The Superb is also selling in respectable numbers. Another VAG C-Segment that sells quite well is the current SEAT Leon. SEAT doesn’t have the same upmarket image, but they have quite a good brand equity with young people. It’s quite frequent for one to get a SEAT Ibiza TDI as host first car (the other popular first cars are the Renault Clio and Opel Corsa).
The VW Jetta? Only a couple of cab drivers pick them, and even those who want a cheap reliable diesel for taxi duty prefer to pick a Dacia Logan or a Citroen C-Elysee. Those who are able to pony up for a VW get a Golf Variant or a Passat, and a lot of them go to the Skoda Octavia or Superb.
Here in Portugal there is also more than one VW+Skoda dealer. Octavia sells much more than both Rapid and Spaceback. The Superb is also selling in respectable numbers. Another VAG C-Segment that sells quite well is the current SEAT Leon. SEAT doesn’t have the same upmarket image, but they have quite a good brand equity with young people.
Not surprising that the Leon would do well in Portugal and Spain, being the “local brand”. Overall, in Europe, for the first half of this year in the C segment, the Octavia is in third place with 118.697 sold, the Leon is in 7th place with 77.927 sold and the Rapid is in 12th with only 36.275 sold. For comparison, the Golf has sold 237.351 and the attractively styled but cheaply built and priced Fiat Tipo is closely trailing the Leon in 8th place with 76.405 sold.
My theory wrt the preference for the Octavia over the Rapid is that taxation and running costs of a C segment car are so high in Europe that anyone who can afford to run a C segment car can afford to buy a nice one, hence the preference for an Octavia hatchback or estate over a more plainly trimmed Rapid hatchback or Spaceback.
iirc, the SEAT division turned a profit in 2016, but had been running losses in prior years. One test report I watched of a Leon estate openly asked “why is this car made”, because it is so close to what Skoda and VW offer. I suspect that VAG would lose little if the SEAT brand was retired, as the customers would migrate to either VW or Skoda, both of which are stronger in the same segments.
Americans love really cheap goods, hence the increase in sales when the cheap Mk VI Jetta replaced the more refined and better trimmed Mk V. The Yugo sold well for an unknown brand, until word got around what a POS the cars were. People here snapped up early Hyundais too. If Great Wall brought it’s big SUVs to the US, and priced them 20% below the competition, they would fly out the door, regardless of questions about their safety or reliability as they would have the two attributes Americans want: they are big and cheap.
The head of Skoda India describes their market position as “value luxury”. I have a thought that VAG considered bringing Skoda to the US, but then demurred because a “value luxury” Skoda was not cheap enough compared to a luxury VW. The proposed really cheap brand from VAG for the Chinese market would probably do well in the US as Americans would not care about the old platform that is not as refined as the MQB platform, nor would Americans care about hard plastics in the interior, as long as they could get that Chinese built CUV cheap.
Sorry Steve, but I’d pick Skoda. My second twin sister drove a Superb when she visited a friend in Santo Domingo several months ago. She’s a tad smaller than I (I’m 6′ 1″, she’s 5′ 8″) and she loved the Superb wagon! If I were a betting man, I’d pick that Skoda would be more in Buick/MG-Plymouth/Kia/Alfa Romeo territory than as the so-called “value luxury” that VW would’ve put it in. Volksy would shoot itself in the foot and be rendered a fool if they didn’t take the chance and put Skoda here, as well as the entry brand, BOTH would take off to spite GM and Toyota!