With the Miata now departed in the summer of 2017, I had a green light from the Mrs. to replace it. The world was my oyster, within reason. A C-6 Corvette? A newer Miata? I have always been intrigued by the Nissan 370Z. A cheap lease on a new Challenger R/T? Or maybe a Mustang? In the end, I decided on a proper, newer American muscle car. In 35 years of driving, I had never owned a car with a V-8. And well, maybe it was now or never. I just turned 51 and you just don’t know what life might have in store for you.
Speaking to that, I had lost a beloved brother-in-law, George, in October of 2016. He passed away at 55 after advanced cancer was discovered, and in just eight weeks, he was gone. And I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye. He was one-of-a-kind guy: energetic, hospitable, loud, contrarian, eccentric, whip smart and not to mention one of the world’s funniest humans. It didn’t seem possible that this could happen to George. It was absolutely devastating to our large extended family.
George’s 64- Still In the Family
And George loved cars. He bought new and used cars alike but the common denominator was driving them all into the ground and keeping them for 10-12 years or longer. With five drivers in his household, he was always wrenching on something. While not a professional, he had an amazing mechanical aptitude. There wasn’t much he wouldn’t take on. When he was in his mid 40s, he got his dream car, a 1965 Corvette coupe. In the end, this barn find proved to be a bit of a basket case, almost un-restorable and he sold it and bought a much nicer 1964 Corvette roadster. He and my sister-in-law Sharon enjoyed their times very much in this car.
George didn’t have much use for what he called trailer queens, perfect numbers-matching classics that got the blue ribbon at car shows. To him cars were meant to be driven, and driven hard if you were of a mind to do so. One day he was doing burnouts and hole shots in the 64 out in the country where he lived, and blew out the rear end and limped it home. He was very proud of the fact that he smoked the rear end, and it was on the road again in a couple of weeks.
It was George who encouraged me to get a fun car in the first place when I bought the Miata. He said it would “add some Technicolor to an often black-and-white life”. He let me store it in his pole barn in the winter months. He checked on it and occasionally moved the car around so the tires wouldn’t get bald spots and marked the tire with chalk so he could tell. How “car guy” is that? We always talked about going to Le Mans one year and also finding a place that would rent us a Porsche 911 for a day, as he loved that car. We never got the chance to do either.
A year before he passed way, he bought a beautiful slate grey stealth 2015 Camaro SS. This was to be his summer to-work car for daily performance. He ended up trading in his Camaro with barely 2000 miles on it, two weeks before he died, to make sure his wife had a new car (a Silverado) after he passed. On the day he died, he was resolutely making phone calls to make sure his insurance and pension was sorted out. He died at home with his immediate family, as he wanted it.
He left his 1964 Corvette roadster to his son George, now 26. He had a 1964 GTO that was in the middle of a meticulous, frame-off-restoration, and he did much of the work himself. All of the big stuff is done, but now it needs to be put back together. Sharon vows to finish it, and work has continued in fits and spells, by George’s friends. I think it will be at least another three or four years before it’s on the road. I look forward to that day.
The one that got away….
My decision on the Camaro was no doubt influenced by George. To me the generation of Camaros from 2010-2015 seemed a bit cartoonish and bloated, though I liked them well enough. While I still had the Miata, I bid on a beautiful retro orange 2011 convertible SS with 13,000 miles on the odometer just east of Cleveland on eBay. I could have had it, but the timing was off.
Ultimately, I decided I liked the overall holistic evolution that took place on the 2016 Camaros. It’s a bit lighter, has a cleaner body line and the interior is less busy and better executed with nicer materials. Oh, and it’s more powerful. I almost forgot to mention that. George and I discussed the 2016s. He preferred the 15s and earlier. I know George would’ve been very happy for me to have a Camaro, and we’d be comparing notes to this day.
I cast a wide net, and ended up finding a red, manual 2016 SS in suburban Denver with just 2,775 miles on it. A transporter the dealer recommended got the car here three days late. As one involved with logistics, delays happen and it’s often nobody’s fault and not incompetence nor sheer negligence. I have big reserves of empathy and understanding, so long as it got here in one piece. The trucker and I met at an empty strip mall for the exchange. Driving to it and seeing it off in the distance….the anticipation was exhilarating. I was a kid again! Upon inspection, it was flawless – what a relief! Smiling ear to ear, I started it, engaged the clutch. and stalled it.
You can read hundreds of reviews about the Camaro: specs, pros and cons, likes and dislikes, how it compares to its natural rival, the Mustang, or Challenger, or BMW M3 and so on. But what is it like for me, a 52 year-old, very regular, rather nerdy fellow to own and drive? In short: it’s fantastic!
American muscle has never been better, and they are absolute performance bargains. When you engage the Camaro’s push-button start, it fires up with an intoxicating and loud roar. It puts a smile on my face every time. It seems to beg you, to dare you even, to drive it hard. Sometimes, I think it wants to kill me.
I would prefer a shifter with shorter throws. My old Miata had a sweet gearbox and I liked the feel of it over this one. With 455 hp and 455 ft-lbs of torque on tap, it’s ready to go fast, right now, and will let you know it. Tests claim 0-60 in 4.2 seconds…and that’s legit (in the right hands, not my hands). It pulls extra hard in third and fourth. Hole shots and blasts on quiet stretches are tons of fun. At full throttle… what an amazing sound. That said, I’ve never really pushed it to the limits. I’m just not that good a driver, and really, why risk it?
It handles like a proper sports car and, and corners like it’s on rails. This is not in my opinion a muscle car, not any more. It’s too dynamically refined. Nor is it a sports car. Among other things, it’s too big. And to me, a proper sports car has 2 seats. So, let’s just say I think it’s a sports coupe and leave it at that.
On the interstate, drop it in sixth gear, she quiets down and is a real sweetheart. Ride quality is reflective of whatever road surface your on. Smooth interstate…great. In rough Detroit area roads with 20” performance tires…not so good. But I didn’t expect an isolated, cushy ride. Driven gently, it can easily get 26-27 MPG set at 75 miles an hour, as it’s barely breathing. It’s a fine road trip car and is comfortable, with heated and cooled seats. It has most options except a moonroof , and the modern infotainment and car-to-phone connection works very well.
Top: Poor Fit and Fish on Dash
Bottom: Driving Mode Selector Position. Really!?!
Complaints? Look where the driving mode selector is. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve accidentally toggled it to snow and ice mode by accident. Who thought to put it there? I think it’s well put together, but there’s an annoying dash panel gap I get to look at directly above the instrument panel… it looks worse in person. It has soft, high-quality materials in all the right touch spots. But there are still some awfully hard and cheap plastic pieces in the interior, on top of the dash, and on top of the inner door panels.
More? It has horrible visibility out the back and sides. It has a backup camera for a reason. An adult can sit sideways and be somewhat comfortable in a short trip in the backseat, but two grown ups won’t work back there at all. Why did they bother? It’s also not an easy car to live with, day-to-day. Doors are big and heavy. Running up to the store to get a gallon of milk… well, it’s an event. You’d have to be a special sort of person to want to have this as your daily driver.
As an aside, I’ve pondered that in the coming age of electric, autonomous and ride-sharing services challenging traditional vehicle ownership, what does the future hold for cars like the Camaro, Mustang and Challenger? I personally love the horsepower wars between those three, fun stuff. The Mustang has a global mystique and fan base, and Ford wisely exports it outside North America. For the Camaro, I’m not so sure GM can allocate the resources to keep it viable in the long-term. And will cars like this still hold appeal for the millennials as they age? Look around and you see lots of grey-haired guys driving sports and muscle cars now (me included, but I’m only partially grey).
And the future is electric. Recently, I got a ride in a Tesla Model S, and I was blown away. It was beautiful inside and out, accelerated like a spaceship and was well-balanced. It was $100,000 but staggeringly good. I daresay though, the Tesla driving experience was a bit hollow. Will there be no differentiation in cars? Just a handful of electric motors stuck on the body of your choice? Obviously, zero emission cars will have a huge benefit for the environment, once the supply chain exists to make them by the millions, and sell them affordably. I daresay that in 5 to 10 years, or even sooner, cars will be even more of an appliance, and much, much more boring.
There is an element of “watch for what you wish for, you might get it” here with my Camaro. Shocker! It’s expensive to insure. Premium gas is recommended, and I oblige. Around town, expect 11-15 MPG. Mind you, I did know all of this going in. Driving in stop-and-go traffic to work riding that clutch isn’t very fun, so I’ve taken it to work exactly 4 times. And really, where are you going to use all this power in day to day driving?
The Winter Habitat Of The Camaro
And there is the practicality of the whole thing. When it’s here half of the year, when busy, working late, etc. I sometimes don’t drive it for 4 or 5 days in a row. My wife and sons are more less indifferent to it. She misses our Miata. I put it away around December 1, up until mid-April. It’s starting to feel like an expensive indulgence I can no longer fully justify. Or maybe… maybe I just don’t love it enough to keep it? There, I said it.
Last October it just turned over 7,000 miles. While it’s tucked away hibernating for the winter, I can’t say how long I will keep it. But I am excited already about driving it home in the spring. Maybe I had the right idea all along with the Miata: top down useable performance and low-cost of ownership. I have a possible buyer lined up, a 20 something IT guy from the Netherlands who wants to ditch his WRX for something different. He wants to look at it at least. Regardless of what I ultimately decide to do, I’m glad I’ve had a chance to own a car like this, and I will have no regrets.
Plenty of these Camaro in NZ and Mustangs and Challengers, the Camaro will come here new but via Aussie for the RHD conversion our Ram pickups currently do the same trip, I’m not a fan of them and managed to avoid large numbers at a recent car show early 70s Camaros and late 60s Mustangs are the newest ones I like, I could be alone in that but I dont care.
I’m a Mustang guy but acknowledge Chevy got it right with this Alpha chassis-based Camaro. It’s a great road car.
If the Camaro ever gets a real greenhouse I’m interested. Give me a 2nd gen inspired redesign. With the absence of bumper regs today you could pull off the split bumper.
Although as I guy with two kids, if the BOTH were in forward facing car seats (I still got one in a rearward seat) I’d be more of a potential Challenger customer.
Nice story, well told. Sometimes cars are monuments to our fathers or mothers, and sometimes to our good friends. It sounds like you might be moving on from this Camaro, but that you got to enjoy your time with it. Let us know how it all shakes out!
Great read Carl. My brother has almost the exact same car as you, a 2017 though and he has the SS stripes. He ordered his new in 2016 and because he insisted on a manual he ended up with one of the first 2017s in Canada in June of 2016. He also has all he hi-po options like the big brakes, exhaust, upgraded suspension. Much of what you say about the car is exactly what my brother says. He loves the power, handling and the long trip comfort of the car. But like you said, he says its though to live with as a daily driver, which is why his roadtrip and fun only car (he has a Mazda 3 daily driver and a Ford Edge company car).
I have driven my brothers Camaro several times and the dynamic and power are phenomenal. It’s too bad it has such polarizing styling because these cars are a lot better drivers than most realize. The visibility out the back and in the blind spot is not good, but I find the front and side visibility fine.
I hope if the Camaro continues they increase the greenhouse size. If they made these cars easier to live with it might increase there popularity outside of the hardcore performance enthusiasts.
Sorry to hear about your brother’s passing. I hope you write an article when that GTO is finished and on the road.
I’m enjoying your series Carl, and Im going to agree and disagree with you about several things.
I agree the future seems to be electric but not solely. There are too many true car enthusiasts that are not going to let the ICE go into that goodnight, especially when 1) gas in the U.S. is so cheap, at least for now and the foreseeable future, and 2) the infrastructure isn’t there to support a majority electric carforce.
U.S. performance car sales are strong right now, probably as a result of the economy, but remember when the Challenger and Camaro were reintroduced in 2008 and 2010, respectively, it was the height of the recession but they were brought in with a lot of fanfare, high dealer markups and they sold every one they could screw together. And its not just grey-haired guys driving them, the local car shows, Cars and Coffees, and the racetrack are teeming with Mustangs/Challengers/Camaros and the majority of owners are under 40. The desire for these cars aren’t going away anytime soon either.
Im a new Challenger owner and Ive driven all 3 of the new supercars and I admit the Camaro would be the hardest to live with every day, mainly because of the visibility; its dangerously blind. Its also dangerously fun to drive too. But if you do sell it and want to try another muscle-type car, give a new Challenger a shot-the visibility is so much better, albeit still limited compared to older cars, it has a real trunk and a backseat, I think it has the nicest drivability of the 3, and, well Hellcat.
LT Dan, very much enjoy your series as well and your Mopar classics. I guess I should’ve qualified it a little bit when I said electric cars are the future. That future is probably a lot farther along than people think with the infrastructure needed to support it.
I hope you are right about the interest in performance cars of the sub 40 set. My closest cars and coffee, albeit in a ultra high income zip code has all kinds of cars…. however there sure seems to be a bias toward imports by the younger guys.
My lone experience in a Challenger was about two years ago in Atlanta as a rental. It was a V6 but even then it was a pretty nice driver and very comfortable. I could see it would be pretty amazing with a hemi in there. I think it is the best one of the bunch overall in terms of aesthetic.
If the $35,000 Camaro came from the factory with that Tonka level of engineering and attention to detail that I see on the dash – I’d be angry and wondering what’s wrong that I can’t see? Are Mustangs or Challengers better in that regard? I expect better than that!
Every time I see one of these, I wonder what that Camaro has to be angry about….
Ive driven these modern muscle cars and to me they just seem to have too much power. Whe its so ppwerful you cant control it to me is when it goes from fun to scary. I prefer a balance and fast does not equal fun to me. Id say go back to the miata.
.an older one that more closely resembled the mgb it was based on. The newer ones have cheap interiors.
Fully agree.
I agree. The current crop of ponycars the base V6 or Turbo 4s have about as much useable power one would need – 300 horsepower is perfect for cars in this weight class as a fun day to day performance car. But when you’re like me you want the V8 burble attached to a Camaro, Mustang or Challenger and save for the Dodge’s base 5.7(in a much heavier chassis) the V8s all elevate you deep into the mid 400s. Good for bragging, good for days at the dragstrip, but drive too spiritedly on your favorite stretch of road and you might just become a fail meme.
Also the level of refinement these modern cars have is incredible, but the direct cost of it is the kind of visceral feel you get from old muscle cars where a 300 gross horsepower engine felt like a rocket strapped underhood. Flogging a 300 horsepower V6 Camaro on the other hand is about as exciting as any other modern car. The extra power of the V8s overcomes this to a degree.
I would say the V8 pony cars have way more power than you need. They have enough power and performance that it makes them difficult to really put through its paces in public roads and not catch the attention of the local constabilary. However, I would disagree that the V8 cars are overpowered, especially to the point of being uncontrollable. These cars are more than capable of handling there 400 plus horsepower engines. Driving my brothers Camaro I had no issues driving it very aggressively, it handled the power very well and was very controllable.
For me, the six cylinder cars just don’t do it. Yes they have great performance, but what they lack is the low end power that makes the V8s so much fun. That’s also what made the older and slower cars more fun. That instant power, no downshifts required, just slam you into the seat and go. Sure they ran out of steam at high rpm, but it was this low end power that makes the cars so much fun. There modern V6s just don’t have that, even if they may run a quicker quarter mile.
That part about losing control was just tongue and cheek, though it speaks directly to my point about refinement. Was it *you* who had no issues driving it aggressively or was it the various traction/stability aids?
I don’t think V8s are overpowered from an ethical, safety nanny, save the children standpoint. I’m glad they exist and admire them greatly. Myself though, I do not need that kind of power, which nearly all V8s now start at. 300-350 horsepower is kind of my sweetspot, plenty to be fast, plenty to break traction for tire squealing shenanigans, but just low enough to regularly put them through their paces without too much paranoia, but that output is exclusively V6/turbo 4 territory these days, and like you they don’t do it for me either.
Matt that response wasn’t directed at you specifically, I was just offering my opinion in the conversation. I realize now I responded to your comment directly.
FWIW, I drove the Camaro in sport mode with the nannies disabled (I think the stabiltrac will kick in if you really lose it). In sport mode the suspension, steering, throttle response really come alive. Lots of fun!
Great article! I agree that we are in the golden age, and possibly the twilight, of the “classic” gasoline V8 American sports coupe (agree w/ you on this moniker, too). Who knows exactly what the future holds for these types of cars, so enjoy them while they last.
I’ve had my ’13 Boss 302 Mustang since new, going on 7 years this June, and I’m now thinking I’ll sell it this spring. I’ve had my fun w/ “Da Boss” and decided it’s time to move on to the next toy, whatever that is.
Hope you have a long and satisfying relationship with your Camaro….enjoy!
I really wanted to like these Alpha Camaros, the platform is solid, the all around performance capabilities are impressive and I don’t actually mind the styling as compared to the 5th gens(I too wish they moved away from the 69 on steroids look, but it’s not any worse) and dare I say Mustang(was always hot and cold about the 15+ design, but fully hate the 18-current updates), but my god the compromises. As an enthusiast I’m more than willing to make sacrifices for good styling, but when the sacrifices are so intrusive that no amount of seat pedal and steering wheel adjustment can position my body in a comfortable and functional way, the styling needs to be better. A legit 69 Camaro is vastly better looking than this car to me and yet I have zero problem with visibility or ergonomics with them, despite little to no adjustments.
I’m happy for those of you that can get past them or are physically built to fit in them right, because the Camaro is arguably the most tantalizing of the three ponycars on paper.
Nice article. I too, had a 65 Stingray. Wish I had it back, but at 75 years old, I am sticking with my 1998 F150 and a 2002 BMW Convertible. As for the Camaro, sell it and get a Miata again!
Never was a fan of it`s overwrought styling, and that low roof that probably offers poor vision. Like most Firebirds, and older Camaros, I never even give them a second glance. They look like prop product placements from a ‘Transformers’ movie, but I guess that`s the idea.
Nice poignant story about how you came to this car. Maybe it’s more your brother in laws car than your own, or perhaps the rig really doesn’t scratch your car itch, but it sounds like you’ll be parting with it. It’s a cool car so I’m guessing you’ll have no trouble finding a new owner.
I know three people with these Camaros, all young women under the age of thirty. One has a black SS and the other has a yellow SS and the youngest, she’s 20, a white one. In my neck of the woods these modern American muscle/pony cars are wildly popular with the youngs. I can’t even tell you how many I saw on the road just today, Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers, they are thick. I noted two Hellcats alone in our puttering about this afternoon.
But then our demographic is, uh, different.
I do think the Camaro would be hard to live with daily. I’ve driven one, it’s a great ride. Great. But tough to deal with the compromises at my advanced age. The young gals I know who daily drive them love their hot rods, we have no snow here, and willingly pay the gas price and insurance.
My Espositas V6 ’17 Challenger, however, is a great daily driver and simply easy to live with. Real backseat, real trunk, decent mileage, fun when the pedal is all the way down, looks fabulous. She loves it like no other car she’s owned, which is quite the feat.
Amusingly my mom’s family car back in the day was a Mustang. She loved that car, it’s still her fav over 40 years later.
Oh and my sister’s first car she bought with her own money was a Mustang. She worked summers in the packing sheds to swing it. Silver with a black vinyl roof. Yum.
These cars spark passion. If they don’t no big deal, not everyone’s cup of tea. It’s interesting to me how these are some of the very, very, very few types of cars I’ve ever seen non-car women get into and love.
A wonderful tribute to your brother in law. May he rest in peace.
I have often wondered how I would take to a car of this kind. My Miata is kind of like the Ford Model A of modern sports cars – cheap and simple yet beautiful and fun. However there is also the lure of the music of a big V8 along with the massive torque that goes with it. Perhaps it is just that human tendency to want something different from what you have.
Agreed, RIP!
“Perhaps it is just that human tendency to want something different from what you have.”
My cycle of beaters is basically this.
Ragged out and fun Maxima->Practical and comfortable ES300->crude but fun stick shift Ranger inspired by my time in Mexico->practical AWD Honda Pilot->crude but fun stick shift Ranger inspired by my honeymoon in Costa Rica->comfy AWD Audi A4. And that doesn’t even capture all of the different cars/moods I go through during any given one of these ownership periods!
After all of that… I’m a minivan man! I’m putting the beater cycle on hold for quite some time, but once we’re past the toddler stage and in a house with more garage and driveway space, I can see myself getting something fun to enjoy with my son(s?), either an old 60s/70s domestic, or something like a 90s F-body or Foxbody/SN-95 Mustang convertible.
If I could do it over again, and I wouldn’t …but maybe I should’ve got a Camaro convertible. With an automatic my wife could drive, top down with room for 4. That probably would’ve been the smartest thing, but then again that’s not always my strong suit I’m afraid. It seemed the convertibles we’re about five grand more so I called it good and got the coupe. It is great to have the hammer under the hood but again I think a Miata checks off an off a lot of the fun car attribute boxes for most.
“And really, where are you going to use all this power in day to day driving?” Exactly. Vehicles in recent years have gotten WAY too powerful if all you need is Point A to Point B transportation. Even a 4-cylinder Ranger can become overpowered during heavy traffic conditions–and with ONLY 143 hp & 154 lb-ft of torque too! (ask me how I know) It’s even WORSE with my Astro (190 hp & 250 lb-ft of torque). Any more power would be TOO MUCH! There is indeed a time & place for sports/muscle cars, but at the end of the day I still need a vehicle that I can use for my job & family as well. A 2-to-4-passenger coupe with 400+ hp AND torque would NOT fit my needs well. An ironic thing I’ve noticed going to & coming home from work is that many of the drivers who speed past me on the highway (I stay in the rightmost lane whenever possible) end up stopped at the next stoplight & I catch right back up with them; I think we can tell who the smarter driver is in this situation.
I kind of expect GM to kill the Camaro and blame it’s death on something other than it’s true cause, terminal ugliness and lack of utility. I hope they rethink it and make it a hatch or whatever they need to do to get it to have some utility. I’m on my second Challenger and anyone who says the V8 cars have too much power is….a wuss. The 485 my car has is just right.