A newish addition to the family, with a name that is quite a mouthful!
My wife had really enjoyed the COAL 2018 Range Rover Supercharged for about three years, but recently remarked that she wanted something new(er), and smaller.
She recently started working for a government agency in her professional arena of real estate. This is a position where she does not need to see (or carry) clients. And, she and I are thinking about our “exit strategy”, i.e., when we want to quit working. Probably five years from now for her, and about 10 for me. So, she wanted a warrantied car that would last her to my retirement date and then we could see what our retirement income is, whether we even want two cars (or a car at all), etc., as we might follow one of our adult kids to their urban locales (one in the Bay Area, and another in Brooklyn now).
She drives about 7,000 miles a year now, tops. The Range Rover had 65,000 miles on it. Would it make it another 70,000 miles or so without major problems? I was willing to take my chances, but there was still the issue of her wanting something smaller. The Range Rover is the best long trip, highway car I have ever driven. It is smooth and silent. Around town though, and squeezing into our townhome garage, for my 5’2″ wife it can be a little tiring.
My first thought was that she wasn’t going to like the trade-in value on the Range Rover. I did some research, and told her what I thought the trade-in value would be. To my surprise she said “yeah, that seems fair, I would take that for it”. OK, first hurdle down. She wanted a nearly new car for about an even trade, so no car payment and no new money down.
We made the rounds of dealerships on a Sunday (when they were closed) to see what certified pre-owned cars she might like. She had no interest in anything with a trunk, just SUV’s, for the ride height/sightlines, and her Costco trips.
She liked the Mercedes-Benz GLE, but it was pricey.
She did not like the Mercedes-Benz GLC in person, though that was what she thought she wanted.
The X3 and X5 were “too sporty”.
I really liked the Acura RDX, but she didn’t. She liked a Volvo or two, and the Audi Q3 and Q5.
She didn’t care for the Lexus UX or NX, though I liked them both.
I put off actually going in for test drives, because that can be painful with my wife. She doesn’t like the typical salesperson banter. I guess none of us really do. She wants to test drive something and then leave to think about it. You know how they all are, “come into my office, let’s talk”. It can be hard to get away without being rude (though she will just walk out to our car, leaving me to deal with the salesperson).
Conveniently enough, a co-worker then asked her to go test driving new cars with her. She was about our age, single, and needed a new car. She didn’t want to shop or test drive alone, and wanted my wife’s advice.
That was kind of funny to me, since my wife hates car shopping so much. They drove all the small to mid-size premium SUV’s you can think of, over two or three afternoons. After that experience of riding in each one and driving it as well, she announced she was set on an Audi Q5 to replace the Range Rover.
I set out to find an even trade which would be a 2023, certified pre-owned Q5. The Audi CPO warranty adds 12 months or 20,000 miles to the end of the new car warranty, which is 4 years or 50,000 miles from the in-service date to the first owner.
I found several good candidates, including a CPO 2024 Q5 with 447 miles (not a misprint). Problem was, it was white with a tan interior. My wife’s absolute least favorite color combination (although I thought it was quite good looking, and the same color combo as my 2020 Outback).
There are two Audi dealers in our city, but neither one had a CPO of interest in stock. Most had more miles or age than she was interested in. I looked in surrounding cities, and found a great price on a CPO 2023 Q5 in good colors (charcoal grey with black leather), low miles (about 8,000) and with the equipment she wanted. All Q5’s have standard leather, heated seats and steering wheel, but a sunroof and other niceties are optional. She also disliked the standard 18′ alloys, and wanted one of the optional 19″ styles.
We drove to this dealer about 90 minutes away in a mood to act. We took both keys and the title to the Range Rover with us. When we got there, the charcoal grey Q5 was freshly washed and in the “new car delivery” bay for us to inspect. Wow, it looked new.
And when we opened the door…….the smell of cigarette smoke knocked you over. I mean, crazy bad. I don’t know how someone got it to smell like that in so few miles, unless they smoked with the windows always up and the A/C on recirculation. I am not an antismoking crusader, I have smoked in the past. But dang, there was no getting rid of that smell.
We looked at what else they had. By this time, she had declared she had to have a black interior (Q5’s have grey, black, light tan, and a light brown or “saddle” interior to choose from); one certain style of optional 19″ “Double Arm” wheels; black, metallic black, or metallic dark grey paint; and cooled seats. She also liked the “S Line” trim better.
I had cooled seats in my 740e and never used them, but she had to have them. On the other hand, I had a heads up display in the 740e and liked it. The Range Rover had a HUD, but it meant nothing to her and she didn’t want that on the Q5. My 2020 Outback doesn’t have a HUD as it was not available at all, and frankly I haven’t missed it either.
I thought the only way to get cooled seats on the Q5 was to get the Prestige trim. The Q5 trims are Premium, Premium Plus, and Prestige. Each trim is available as a “40” or “45”. The 40 has 201hp and the 45 has 261hp, but both are 2.0 liter 4 cylinder units, and all Q5’s have all wheel drive. There is also a PHEV version.
“S Line” is kind of like “M” on a BMW or “F Sport” on a Lexus. It does not change anything mechanically that I know of, but has different bumpers, grille, and exterior trim bits.
The dealer had a new 2024 45 S Line Prestige, dark metallic grey with the right wheels and black interior. We left for dinner because it was getting late, but told him to send us his best out the door trade difference the next day when he had time, on that unit. I was turned off by the fact that to all their new Audis, they add about $4,000.00 of dealer add-ons.
Window tint, clear bra, clear door edge guards, clear door handle cup liners, clear rear bumper trim, all weather floor mats, cargo mat, and some “paint coating” that is just a wax job, really. I don’t mind the window tint and clear bra, but I can get it done myself for less.
One positive development of visiting this dealer was they did surpass the prior best trade in value on the Range Rover by $2,500.00. However, even with that, this new 2024 Prestige wound up having a significant trade difference when he texted the numbers to me the next day.
We slept on it, and decided just to pass and keep the Range Rover. I texted back and told him she had to have cooled seats, so she had to have a Prestige, but a new Prestige was more trade difference that we were interested in. Before we wrote a check for the difference on a Prestige, we would probably look at more makes before deciding, or just do nothing.
He responded that cooled seats were one of the only Prestige features you could get as a standalone option, and he had a new 2024 45 S Line Premium Plus in stock, with the right 19″ “Double Arm” wheels, metallic black with black interior, and the optional cooled seats.
A Premium Plus stickers for $5,100.00 less than a Prestige, too, as you are leaving off the HUD she didn’t want, built in navigation (which we didn’t need since you have wireless CarPlay), heated rear seats (no one will ever sit there anyway), heated and cooled cupholders (is this really a thing?), real aluminum trim on the dash and door panels (we liked the genuine Birch wood in the “lower” Q5’s better), and a self-parking feature (my 740e had this for parallel and perpendicular spaces, and while it’s a neat party trick, I can’t imagine actually using this in the real world).
He gave us the numbers on the Premium Plus and with their dealer discount, a $1,500.00 rebate from Audi, and another $1,500.00 Audi incentive because we are Costco members, we would up with an insignificant trade difference for a completely new, perfectly equipped car. And, he took off the over $4,000.00 of add-ons (though we have them all installed on the car) and the discounts were all off the MSRP, not their inflated “market value”.
The only remaining sticking point was a roller shade cargo cover. I think this is standard on about any SUV these days, but it is a $290.00 option on the Q5, and this unit did not have one. The roof rack cross bars are strangely enough standard on all Q5’s, and that’s usually an option on most makes from my looking.
I told him we had a deal if he would give us a black roller shade cargo cover out of another new Q5, and he said no problem. We went back a couple of days later, verified the roller shade was in place, put the difference on my AA Mastercard for the airline miles, and were on the way home with the odometer reading 31 miles.
I also appreciated the fact that all this time, we dealt with the same person, who was actually the Pre-Owned Manager. Even when we started talking numbers on a new Audi, we didn’t get passed off to someone else. He was our “salesman” to the end.
On the way home, my wife said “Gee, this car is so dark inside, it’s too much black”. I reminded her she said she had to have the black interior. Sigh.
One side note from all this, the Q5’s all come with either Kumho Crugen or Continental tires. I did not know Audi (or any non-Korean car brands) fitted Kumhos at the factory. We drove two new Q5’s back to back on a city and interstate loop, with the same wheels. One had Kumhos, the other had Continentals. It was a night and day difference, with the Kumhos being much quieter and smoother riding. I was glad our Q5 has the Kumhos.
Our Q5 was built in San Jose Chiapa, Mexico. I also did not know Audi had a plant there. Wikipedia tells me it is their newest plant, building all versions of the Q5 since 2016 for the entire world (except China). The quality of the paint in particular is amazing, it is like glass. My 740e by comparison has areas of “orange peel”.
When I got home and downloaded the Owners Manual and Maintenance Guide using the QR code in the glovebox, I saw that the oil change interval is 10,000 miles (pretty standard). But, they call for a transmission fluid and filter change every 40,000 miles! And spark plugs every 60,000. But hey, that’s OK. I’ll do them myself at the rental garage/lift I wrote up. And hats off to Audi for admitting that “lifetime” transmission fluid really isn’t. I’m sure they lose some customers, or magazine recommendations, over their service intervals.
One odd thing I noticed poking around the new addition…..there’s no hood pad? Google led me to a couple of Audi forums talking about this. The hood pad is still available as a part from Audi dealers, but was eliminated sometime during the 2020 or 2021 production run, about the same time the $500 optional roof cross bars were made standard.
There is a heavy foam engine “beauty” cover, so maybe Audi thought that was good enough. The smallish OEM hood pad is about $250.00, but I ordered a larger, thicker universal adhesive hood pad online for about $40.00, and then cut to fit. The car was pretty quiet without it, and adding the pad seemed to make it quieter still.
We brought it home in March, 2024, and I just changed the oil yesterday for the first time at 5,145 miles. I’m going to follow the rest of Audi’s maintenance advice, because this car will probably be with us a while, but keep cutting the OCI in about half since it just putts around town.
When filling the car up after changing the oil, I noticed the tires looked low. They were all uniformly at about 22 pounds, though the low tire light was not on. Apparently, the system needs to be “set” and alerts you to pressures deviating below that set point. It had never been set, so it was not on the lookout for lowering pressures. The system does not appear to broadcast “live” pressure readings to the dash, like the Outback does. I inflated them all and set the pressure warning system, which I suspect is something the dealer should have done at delivery. Oh well, good help is hard to find!
Change the oil more frequently than every 10,000 miles. More like every 3500 – 4000 miles , along with the filter. The car’s name needs to be shortened. A lot .
That’s overly frequent. 7,500 should do it.
Paying for an oil change is a lot cheaper than paying for an early timing chain & guide replacement or an early turbo replacement. If you own any expensive European car, the extended oil changes are a cruel joke if you observe them, and you will end up paying for expensive engine repairs once the factory warranty expires and the loan is paid off.
Right. I’m familiar. I’m especially familiar with Jaguar Land Rover telling owners to just wait until the computer says so to change their oil (which was often at 14K to 20K mile intervals)…and then, oops, your oil-driven tensioners got gummy, the guides were a bad design in the first place, and now you have a stretched chain, or–worse–a skipped tooth and smashed valves.
I wouldn’t go to 10K miles in any of these Euro cars, even though that’s the factory recommendation. On that, we agree.
On this car, I’d do 7,500-mile intervals at the outset, and then decrease that to 5,000 once the car crossed 100K miles. I might do 5,000 when the car is new if it’s one of their higher-performance engines, but the 45 TFSI engine is very relaxed and understressed.
How easy shopping for modern cars must be when you prefer all-black interiors! And isn’t it great when you stumble across one configured just the way you wanted it.
I have been noticing for awhile now how popular these are. I have to say that Audi has been one of the most persistent purveyors of attractively styled vehicles in the industry. Enjoy!
The Q5 (and comparable SUV’s) are the go-to middle age car in my city, along with the RX. In our 8 townhome community, there are three Q5’s, a Q7, and a GLC. No RX’s here, but my sister has one, as does my sister-in-law.
Our oldest neighbors have a final year Town Car, which I secretly lust after.
Congrats, these seem like nice, quiet, swift runabouts and Audi has sold a lot of them over the years. I’d be interested to read your detailed driving impressions in a future installment.
I would’ve gone District Green Metallic with the Okapi brown leather interior, but I’m just window shopping 🙂
A great feature in the Q5, and one which I’ve noticed on most 5-door German cars and crossovers, is the 40:20:40 split rear seat back. Really hard to find on most other makes but it is incredibly handy at times.
That little 40 TSI vs 45 TSI trick Audi sneaked in there bugged me when I was considering A5s. Had to read the description carefully to see if an example had the detuned 200hp version or the full-strength 45. IIRC, Audi quietly made the 40 the base engine in MY2021 or so on some cars in which the 45 was standard the year before. But they didn’t lower the price. That stuff irks me; a RAV4 has 200hp as well for about 5-10 grand less. Part of the reason you spend more and roll the dice on a premium brand is to get a premium engine.
Yep. My X5 has them, and my XC90 did as well.
I think Audi really knows its market, on the Q5. A large number of them actually do get used as lifestyle vehicles–for people who enjoy outdoor sports and such–so that middle-folding seat works great with a pair of skis or something like that.
Yes! Skis are exactly why I notice it and like it. Our 4Runner has it, which is unusual for a Japanese vehicle. Immensely handy, no whistling roof-mounted ski apparati.
Toyota went the cheap b*sta*rd route with the new 4Runner and Land Cruiser–60:40 only. I’m very disappointed in what I’ve seen of the decontenting and compromises in those vehicles.
They did? That was foolish. Seems they did on the GX 550 as well. A shame.
The standard bench is 60:40 in the GX550, but there’s a $500 option for 2nd row captain chairs that would give me what I need.
Out of luck in the 4R and Land Cruiser. The seats tumble forward rather than folding low and flat. There are some real packaging problems with the new platform. The hybrid battery pack raises the cargo floor, so if you flop the seatback forward there is a big rise but if you tumble the whole seat, there is a big drop. 4Runners have the same seat design, and in the non-hybrid the cargo floor is lower but still not level. And it’s truncated in length. Forget about sleeping back there when camping (admittedly an edge case concern for most vehicles, but the 4R owner demographic skews more this way).
The Land Cruiser weighs 1000 pounds more than the outgoing 4Runner despite not being substantially larger, and this blunts the acceleration so it really isn’t quicker than the old 4-liter V6. We’ll see what the lighter non-hybrid 4Runner is capable of, but between the packaging and the blatant cheapening of the interior I’m not sure I care.
I expected far better after 15 years and a rising MSRP.
I wasn’t too impressed when I test-drove a new Land Cruiser this summer. Especially not for $70K.
Honestly, the one thing that irritates me about the prior 4Runner is that Toyota never saw fit to put the 6-speed from the GX in. But who knows: maybe the gains were negligible and so they chose not to do so and then have to spend money on certifying another powertrain combo.
Yes, the gears are too long in the 4Runner. After 85,000 miles in ours I still think it needs one more below overdrive.
From what I can see, the 6 speed from the GX460 has the same ratios in gears 1-5 as the 5 speed in the 4Runner. The sixth gear is simply a taller overdrive. The GX has a slightly higher final drive ratio so that may help a little bit.
The 40/20/40 is very handy for runs to Lowe’s or Home Depot. Of course, if you ski, that’s the intended purpose, but it makes it easy to carry yard tools, wood trim, pipe or conduit, etc. My 740e had a ski pass-through to the trunk, and I used it all the dang time.
I drove a certified pre-owned District Green Prestige with the Okapi interior! I was head over heels in love. My wife didn’t like the green, and the price was higher than our final, new purchase since it was a Prestige.
Nice choice. I’d say the Q5 would’ve been my pick in this segment, too. Because:
– The newest X3 is hideous
– While a lot of people like the GV70, it isn’t to my taste
– The F-Pace and Range Rover Velar siblings are just expensive, and aggravating
– The GLC-Class is overpriced and overwhelming
– The Corsair is a gussied-up Escape, and drives like it
– The XT4 is a joke
– The QX50 is also a joke (they still make that?)
– The Tonale is a non-starter, least of all because there’s no Alfa dealer here
– The RDX and NX lack the crispness and sophistication I’d be looking for
I might have also considered an XC60.
1. Re: the standard cross bars — I’ve always wondered why I see a disproportionate number of Q5s with their cross bars, even prior-gen ones, and this makes sense. But even when the cross bars weren’t standard, they must have been a popular option.
2. Re: the cooled seats — Weirdly, it’s extremely difficult to find an SQ5 (that’s the one with the beefier V6 and sporty bits) with cooled seats. Apparently, you have to get the Warm Weather Package, and then you lose the sport seats and diamond quilting.
3. Re: dumping the Range Rover — You were probably right to get rid of that when you did. I am reliably informed that a lot of the issues on the 5.0-liter Jaguar engine still weren’t resolved as of 2017/2018, including the timing chains and coolant crossover pipes. And it’s simply an expensive vehicle to deal with when you need to send it away for work.
4. Re: TPMS — Most Volkswagen/Audi vehicles have indirect TPMS. Where direct TPMS employs actual sensors at each tire and will give you direct readings, indirect TPMS uses the wheel speed sensors to detect when one wheel is spinning fast relative to the others, which means that the diameter is smaller because the pressure is low. The benefit to indirect TPMS is that it’s less hassle, since you don’t have to deal with the sensors, which do frequently go out in some vehicles (ahem, Lexus). But the downside is that it can’t tell you the actual pressure readouts, and typically only triggers if the wheel is seriously underinflated or if you’ve already got a flat. And if all four of your wheels are underinflated, it may not detect an issue at all, as yours didn’t.
5. Re: doing your own spark plugs — Should be a cinch in this car, especially because having the engine all the way at the nose of the car, ahead of the wheels (in typical Audi fashion) means you have easy access.
One final thing: VW and Audi delete auto-hold on most of their cars in the US, and I wish they didn’t. This is the feature (and your 740e would have it) wherein you can come to a complete stop, and then the car will hold still for you until you press the accelerator. The car actually employs the parking brake to do so. On Mercedes-Benz products and perhaps some others, you achieve this by pressing firmly on the brake or double tapping it at a stop, and then it holds the car steady…but on most other makes, the auto-hold feature is a specific function that’s turned on and off via a button or some touch screen somewhere. In VW/Audi cars, it’s a button that’s right beside or below the parking brake switch; you probably have a blank there.
TIL. The rental 2019 Nissan Rogue Sport I rented last year had auto-hold, the only car so equipped I ever drove. I was wondering why it was so heavily are-you-really-sure’d – I had to activate it via button every time I started it and give the brake an extra shove after reaching a complete stop to engage it, but it was welcome since it didn’t like being shifted into Neutral at stoplights and shifting into Park engaged a recalcitrant automatic emergency brake that forced me to do a full restart at a just-turned-green traffic light in Lakeland, Florida the first evening I had it before I discovered the auto-hold…
Overall I was glad to get back home to my manual Honda Fit.
I had auto hold in the 740e and my Outback has it. Maybe I’m dense, but I never understood the point of it. Why don’t you just keep your foot on the brake when stopped at a light? Maybe in hilly cities it’s a convenience? I just always leave it off. I don’t know if the Q5 has it or not, I’ll look now that you brought it up.
We did have the coolant pipe issue in the RR before trading. Replaced under warranty (barely). Frightfully expensive job if out of pocket because the supercharger has to come off.
Ironically, I have never had a coolant leak or electric water pump failure (yet) in the family BMW’s (740e, 328ix GT and 328ix wagon), and anyone you ask will say that’s an impossible feat.
We bought a 2025 Audi Q3 (7 miles on the odo) in the last few hours of December 31st:
– A straight 10% off the MSRP sticker
– Free window tint (they had originally wanted $699)
– Zero dealer addons
– Two Audi keychains 🙂
$10,000 for her trade (2014 Mini Cooper S with 40K miles). KBB’s high end was $7,700 for an “excellent condition” trade-in. [hers was in super shape]. As a side note, Carvana (online interaction only) offered $10,200 for the car. I’ve heard good things about selling your car to them, but I wanted the sales tax shield.
The deal itself, including the trade pricing, was done on the phone around noon. We went to the dealership that afternoon for paperwork and delivery only. The “Finance Manager” was visibly annoyed when we opted for nothing from him. He wanted $7,700 to extend the warranty by four years! I asked him how warranty companies stay in business if they pay out more than they take in – he looked at me like I was stupid
What they say about buying on the last day of the year is all true! Does anyone actually know what incentatives the dealer gains for moving more last-minute units (Better allocations? Bigger dealer holdback?)
I love the Q3’s, too, and was really tempted to get one for myself when we bought the Q5! The finance office routine is unpleasant. This Audi dealership was actually chill about it. I told the salesman (the pre-owned manager) we weren’t taking any of the plans, protections, or contracts up front, before we went into Finance to sign the papers. I was shocked when the Finance person just said “OK, sign here and I need to run your airline card for the difference”. Wow, what a pleasant surprise.
I recall an article on these pages that one wss rented during your trip to Florida…was that experience a factor in your decision-making?
Congrats on your new wheels…
Dan
That was me. The article about that rental reran about two days ago.
Thank you Importamation. It’s been some years since I’ve engaged in the hustle known as buying a car from a dealer, but clearly it’s no different in 2024 than it was 10 years before that or probably 40 years even further back. Hearing about b.s. around changing trade-in amounts and the variable values affixed to options just makes my brain hurt. In the end, it’s all a miasma that’s intended to insure that the house/dealer wins…which of course is what happens. If they didn’t win, you wouldn’t have the car. Not that I have anything against the general principle of good old American salesmanship, but being on the short end of that stick is something I have never relished.
I may have missed it, but I didn’t see just how much this mouthful of an Audi cost. What was the invoice price before applying all of the calculations that may or may not have reduced your particular out-of-pocket? Sorry if I overlooked that info. I’m just curious as I always want to know what manufacturers are able to price their vehicles at. If I had no trade-in (something which should never actually factor into your negotiated price, IMO), but was able to argue the dealer down and capture whatever dealer incentives that were in place, what would I have paid for your Audi something?
I, too, generally hate the whole purchase experience. As much as I love cars, the dealership experience is something I tend to detest. I have enjoyed dealing with CarMax multiple times over the years because the price is the price, period. In my three purchases from CM, they had a very aggressive price on the cars I bought. I can’t say they always have below market pricing, but those were three good deals, all in 2018. All three cars are still in the family (the 2015 BMW 328ix GT and 2015 smart I wrote up, and a 2016 BMW 328ix wagon for my MIL) and have been great cars, with no hidden quirks or issues. Well, to the extent one can say a smart ForTwo doesn’t have quirks 🙂
This Q5 stickered at $56,150, then the dealer had the $4,000 of add-ons. The add-on costs came off, there were the two $1,500 cash incentives (Audi and Costco), and dealer discount of $3,710 = $49,440. Add tax, tag, title to that. Would the next customer have gotten a better or worse deal than us, depending on how hard they pushed? Probably. We were happy at $49,440, so it went home with us.
I don’t know what their invoice cost, holdback, etc. was. They had to be making a profit off of us on it, no business sells products at a loss.
VW/Audi group certainly has some of the cleanest and most appealing exterior and interior design going, while the recent Lexus design language is just awful, almost as atrocious as BMW’s absurd Bucky Beaver grilles.
Certainly, I’d take a Toyota over a Lexus, not being particularly hung up on prestige or luxury features, and prioritizing the value, quality, and long-term reliability inherent with most of the better Japanese makes over whatever supposed “advantages” that may (or may not) be conveyed by ownership of any German or Rover vehicle. As always, YMMV. Post-Brit ownership has had no better luck improving the long standing Rover reputation for frequent and expensive problems than the originators of the marque, who, imo, should have stuck to producing utilitarian vehicles for farmers or the expeditionary set.