Back in the aughts (the 2000s, for our younger readers) there was a joke going around: Q: What is the difference between a BMW and a porcupine? A: The porcupine has the pricks on the outside. BWM as a brand was seen as a car for the upwardly mobile, for the Gordon Geckos of the world: The ambitious, sometimes pushy folks on their way up the social ladder. It was something of an aspirational brand for 30-somethings who wouldn’t be caught dead in a Cadillac or a Lincoln, the aspirational brands of their parents.
By 2002 Rick and I had owned our Jeep Grand Cherokee for six years. After the warranty expired, the Jeep began to have continual trouble. The transfer case leaked, the padding on the rear doors began to warp, and the oil pressure gauge sometimes went to zero for no reason. We decided to shop for another vehicle with four wheel drive we could use to get to and from our cabin in West Virginia without white-knuckle anxiety that the car would break down in the middle of nowhere with no cell phone service.
Our first thought was to look at a BMW 3-series wagon with X-drive. X-drive is the BMW label for full-time all wheel drive. I did the research on the internet (on a dialup modem linking to AOL) and the reviews were positive. We didn’t really need off-road capability, just something that was good in snow. We went off to the dealership and test drove a 3-series. It was OK, but it felt a bit small inside compared to our Grand Cherokee. (Of course it had limousine spaciousness compared to Rick’s Miata). Plus, I really didn’t want a wagon. To me, wagons were what my mother drove, and which I drove when she handed her Buick Sportwagon to me. I wanted something sexier and a bit more spacious for my six-foot frame.
Not ours, but the same color
Rick, knowing I’m a sucker for shiny bright toys, pushed me towards a sparkling silver BMW 525xi. The 5-series was considerably larger, considerably more luxurious, and considerably more expensive than the 3-series wagon. But it was super cool inside, with all the fancy electronic gizmos—like the much-derided iDrive system where you selected a range things by twisting a dial and pushing down on it to make your selection. It was over budget, but I took a deep breath and signed the deal. So Bradley the BMW came home with us.
We elected to keep the Grand Cherokee up at the cabin in the mountains for the summer, and use it only for hauling large loads to and from DC. The new BMW would be my daily driver. It was one sweet ride! Quiet and comfy in town, it had great handling and a high zoom-zoom factor when whipping along curvy mountain roads. And, I’ll be honest: I loved the “OOH! AHH! reaction when I showed up to rehearsals for the Gay Men’s Chorus of Washington DC. I had arrived in peak Yuppiedom.
In fact, we only used the car in snow a couple of times. Once our schnauzer Bentley Continental got sick and I had to take him to the vet in the middle of a snowstorm. The car handled the snowy roads with aplomb. We had one hairy ride where we nearly got stuck on the steep part of the road to our cabin in West Virginia, but we made it fine and used the Jeep to return home, in the snow.
Eventually, our luck with the Jeep ran out. Rick was driving back to DC one Sunday when the oil pressure gauge dropped to zero. We had been assured by the mechanics at the dealer that it was just a sensor problem, but not this time. By the time he got home the engine was clattering like someone was shaking a coffee can full of coins. I had it towed to the dealer, and they gave me the bad news: Then engine was shot because the bearings were fried due to lack of oil. They offered me $5,000 in trade if I bought a new Jeep Liberty they had on sale, but I’d had enough of this dealership and Jeep products, so I had it towed to a friend’s mechanic for a second opinion. Alas, the engine truly was shot. So Jeffrey the Jeep was towed away for salvage and was out of our lives.
Posing with my new car and complimentary BMW hat. Our house in DC is third from the left on the left hand side in this picture.
This was in March 2006. It was also around the time of my 53rd birthday. I was feeling another mid-life crisis, so off we went to the BMW dealership and traded Bradley BMW, the 2002 525xi, for a shiny new silver 2006 528xi, which I named Beauchamp. Looking back, that was rather silly: the 2002 had low mileage and was mechanically perfect; there was nothing wrong with it, it was paid off and in excellent condition, since the vast majority of its mileage was from our weekend trips to the mountains—I lived only 4 miles from work. The 2006 was even the same color inside and out. But it was new, it was sexy, and I. Wanted. It. Now. So the deal was struck.
Bentley Continental approved of the car with his doggie pad over the back seat.
A few months later, around Rick’s birthday, he decided that since I got a new car, he deserved a new one, too. His Miata was now approaching 12 years of age and was beginning to show some wear and tear. We talked about it, and agreed that another SUV to replace the Jeep would be in order, since neither the BMW nor the Miata was any good for carrying large, bulky things. So back we went to the dealership, where our friendly salesperson steered us to a used demonstrator 2004 X3. It was the size Rick wanted and came with the extras he demanded, such as the premium sound system and leather interior. I thought the color was horrible—a rather ghastly dark shade of green somewhere between Charred Olive and Wilted Basil. But he liked the color, and so I took Bentley Continental for a long walk while he dickered over the price. When I came back the deal was done. Our salesperson figured out we were a couple, so she asked if we wanted both names on the title and registration. Simultaneously Rick said “No” and I said “Yes”. I gave him my patented Yale Ph.D. Death Stare, and he agreed to put my name on what would be his car. At the time we could not legally marry, and I felt strongly that both names should be on the title in case something happened to him.
We were stupid and didn’t pay attention to the weather forecast. The BMW got us safely home to DC.
So we we now owned two two (or nearly-new) BMWs. Both were a lot of fun to drive. The X3 had a bit firmer ride than I liked, so it was a bit bouncy on the rotten, notoriously potholed streets of Washington, DC. The X3 in particular was great in the snow, and got us down off the mountain several times when we got caught in WV with a sudden snowstorm. We thought we were all set for years of reliable driving, since the 2002 BMW had no problems at all.
Wrong.
Right about the time the warranties and covered maintenance agreements wore off, all sorts of things started to go wrong. We spent $1,000 getting an electronic switch replaced on the X3’s sunroof; it was stuck in the “closed” position and kept draining the battery. Then something else broke and the sunroof wouldn’t close at all. Not a good thing during the summer thunderstorm season in DC. So that cost us more money to replace. The driver’s side front brake on the 528xi started to squeal. Loudly. VERY loudly. Cat-that-got-its-tail-stepped-on loudly. A super-expensive brake job was the outcome. Then a thermostat needed to be replaced. And the coup de grace was when I was driving home from WV one day and all the warning lights and alerts went off somewhere between Moonshine Hollow Road (where our cabin was) and Front Royal, Virginia. I had no cell phone service and the BMW roadside assist didn’t work. I limped home, and by the time I got to DC my display panel was lit up like the bridge of the USS Enterprise. Most alarming was the warning “X-DRIVE SYSTEM INOPERATIVE! DRIVE SLOWLY”.
I took the car to the BMW dealer and they gave me the bad news: At least $5,000 to fix all the problems. After I recovered from shock, they made me a reasonable offer on a trade-in if I bought a replacement vehicle from stock. I didn’t feel like sinking money into the 2006, and frankly I was pissed at it, so I accepted the offer.
So we said goodbye to Beauchamp the 528xi and signed a three-year lease on Sasha, a 2014 528xi. I liked the looks of this one better than the 2006; BMW got rid of the “Bangle Butt” (named after Chris Bangle, who styled the 2006) and the overall the lines were cleaner and much smoother than the 2006. It also had a different drivetrain: Instead of the inline sixes in our previous BMWs it had a turbocharged inline four. It took me awhile to get used to the rougher idle of the four compared to the six, but the power was more than adequate.
It also came with start/stop technology where the engine would stop when the car idled for more than a few seconds. This caused me no end of panic when, upon driving the car home, the engine stopped when I got off of I-395 in downtown DC. OH NO! I’ve broken the car! The salesperson neglected to explain that when you step on the gas the motor starts up again. There was a switch to turn stop/start off, but when you turned off the ignition it reset to the default of stop/start being “on”. I asked BMW if you could disable it, and they said no, it was a way to get the fuel mileage up, as calculated by the EPA.
For awhile, Sasha behaved. Then, six months into ownership, I was driving to Baltimore and suddenly the engine overheated. I limped back to DC, and then everything was fine. BMW replaced the thermostat under warranty. A few weeks later I stopped at Front Royal to get some things at Walmart for a long weekend at the cabin. When I got in the car to drive next door to Lowes, the steering felt oddly mushy. I parked the car, and noticed a large puddle of engine oil from a gushing leak in the engine compartment. I called AAA, and after an hour wait they sent off Bubba McCoy with his truck to tow me back to BMW in northern Virginia. I was stuck for 90 minutes with a tobacco-chewing hillbilly who hadn’t bathed since the Battle of Antietam. I was NOT amused. BMW took the car and declared it was a failed oil pump, which they agreed to fix for free. I didn’t receive compensation for pain and suffering of being stuck in that tow truck, but at least they ate the towing costs.
In 2016, we were hit with a tragedy: my Dad died at the ripe old age of 96. I flew out to see him before he passed, and we were able to say our goodbyes. Under the terms of his will, he left the family home in Seattle to me. Which presented us with an opportunity: We could retire from our jobs early, sell the homes in WV and DC, and move back to Seattle to live mortgage-free. We’d always planned to move home, and when we ran the numbers it was clear even on reduced retirement income we’d be better off in Seattle with no mortgage and no income tax. Plus we could sell both houses at a fantastic profit; we’d lived in DC for 30 years, and housing prices had grown astronomical.
So we spent a year getting things in order. We sold the cabin in WV (which broke our hearts); we spiffied up the home in DC, and Rick sold his X3 to CarMax for a decent price. We sold our home in DC for an obscene amount of money, and in May 2016 we left an empty house with our new schnauzer Nash Metropolitan in the back seat and headed out to Seattle.
We had to make the trip in no more than six days because we needed to meet our furniture when it arrived at Dad’s house. Now, since I have chronic lower back problems, I can’t drive for more than a couple of hours at a time. Rick did most of the driving. Most of it at 80 miles per hour in rural areas and screaming like a sailor with a broken toe when we were stuck in traffic. To add to my discomfort, he liked to listen to Classic Country music on the satellite radio as he drove. I heard him sing (badly) along with songs like “I love my truck” and “you’re the reason our kids are ugly.” On top of it all I was praying that nothing would go wrong with the car. BMW dealers are few and far between in North Dakota and Montana. It was, to say the least, stressful. We would stop every two hours or so to give Nash a potty break and for me to sit quietly and listen to new-age relaxation apps on my iPhone.
Are we there yet????
We made it to Seattle safely, with no auto-related drama. Six weeks after we got here the temperature on the BMW shot up and stayed up. I took it to BMW of Bellevue (a suburb of Seattle), and they said it needed a new thermostat. They said it would take two hours, and they had no loaner cars available, and the best they could do was drive me to a bus stop. It would take two hours each way with three bus changes, so I settled down with my iPad to cruise the net and chat on Facebook. Two hours became three. Then four. As Rick had no car and we knew nobody in Seattle to come get me, I was stuck. So I sat. And sat. And sat. And sat. The battery on my iPad gave out and I was reduced to watching reality TV in the lounge. Finally, after four and a half hours the car was done. I went and SEETHED at the manager of the dealership, and posted a particularly VICIOUS statement on the dealership’s Facebook page.
In January 2021 the lease on the 2014 BMW was up, and we had decided to switch to Mercedes for our next car. More on that in my next segment of COAL.
COAL № 1: Buicks Aplenty; a Fiat, and a Pontiac • The Early Years.
COAL № 2: 1958 Plymouth Custom Suburban • Dad’s Biggest regret.
COAL № 3: 1965 Buick Sportwagon • My first car.
COAL № 4: 1967 Datsun 1600 • The first car that was legally mine.
COAL № 5: A Pair of Pintos.
COAL № 6: 1983 & ’87 Toyota Celica • What’s the Plural of ‘Celica’?
COAL № 7: 1987 Ford Taurus MT-5 • Tragedy, An Unexpected New Car, And Two Midlife Crises
COAL No. 8: 1987 Jeep Cherokee and ’96 Grand Cherokee • Entering the SUV Era
Thanks for another interesting read; a shame you had so many (thermostat) issues with these cars.
Although we have nothing in common when it comes to selecting cars, I always enjoy your COAL series. This one no exception. Thanks!
Seem$ to $ay something about that vaunted German engineering? I learned my le$$on with 2 older Porsches: gr8 when they ran, but…..when they didn’t: $$$$.
I stick with Hondas now…. 🙂 DFO
Great writeup, Steve, as always. I have to say, when I read “white-knuckle anxiety that the car would break down in the middle of nowhere” about the Jeep and scrolled down to see a BMW I chuckled.
I thought perhaps the 2014 was going to treat you well, ever hoping that each successive generation is where BMW will get it right and provide a long term keeper. I keep wanting to try German…until I read accounts like this!
The curse of modern German cars rears its’ head, repeatedly. Toyota/Lexus is always the answer if you want to avoid headaches and expense. If you want some fun, watch the Car Wizard’s videos on Youtube, they are eye opening on modern German cars in particular.
Liking the series!
There’s a subtext to your tale of BMW joy and woe and it’s “dealer”. While I could offer any number of comments about the various issues you experienced over the course of your 3 BMW ownership, I’ll withhold (until perhaps later in the comments) and say that anyone who has a BMW and who intends to hold on to the car outside of the comprehensive new-car warranty had better either be a competent and at least somewhat enthusiastic DIY mechanic, or at least on good terms with a competent independent mechanic. In terms of the latter, that indy doesn’t need to be “specialized” in BMWs as much as simply a competent automobile mechanic who is knowledgeable of modern vehicles.
Hummmmm…I guess I have a thing about “competent”. 😉
Lacking either of those (DIY and/or indy), your experience is more likely than not to be typical. You’ve got to stay away from the dealer service department. I’d say the same for nearly ANY brand car, but I do believe that there’s something particularly egregious about BMW dealer service.
Then again, I look forward to your next chapter on Mercedes ownership…which I’ve got to imagine is hardly any better.
My 230,000 mile 3 series wagon would probably not have been mine after 100,000 miles if I’d persisted on going to the various dealers who would routinely try to sell me $2500 sets of tires along with my warranty-covered brake jobs.
Jeff: One time I was sitting in the waiting area of BMW of Arlington (VA) waiting on my car. I overheard a VERY angry customer talking to the service rep. Seemed they had had their oil changed at Jiffy Lube instead of the dealer, and the NON-BMW-APPROVED oil had been put in the engine. They were refusing to cover repairs to the Braxton-Hix Kefpoofle (or something like that). The customer went full on “Very Important DC Political Figure Don’t You Know Who I AM????” on the service rep, who refused to budge.
See my comment below about the “special BMW-approved oil” thing.
Odds are that the very important DC political figure didn’t work for the FTC (or neglected to point that out to the service-writer…who was no doubt holding firm to his ability to get points/commission for selling a Braxton-Hix Kefpoofie service)
Otoh, it’s definitely possible that Jiffy Lube was using used Fryolator oil.
They CANNOT refuse any repairs, in or out of warranty, for not using oem oil. It’s called the Magnuson-Moss act, passed by Congress in 1975. And it applies to far more than cars. Details have escaped me.
Exactly. Which is my point about the FTC 🙂
Bummer about your Bimmer but certainly you’d heard all the horror stories .
Bring
My Wallet
Automobiles are great when they’re new, as the very first $2,500 repair they should be jettisoned IMO .
As mentioned here and everywhere else, German gars, even when in perfect order, always need touching .
I say this as a German vehicle owner / Mechanic and lover .
Next time buy Japanese .
Cute pup I hope the new life in…. Seattle (?) is all you hoped it to be .
-Nate
Life here in Seattle is a dream. We live in my old family home with no mortgage. We have lots of new friends we’ve made. We have wonderful neighbors who know us as “That bickering old couple with a cute schnauzer”. Everything we need is at a small shopping center two blocks from our home. The only time we have to deal with the awful Seattle Traffic is when I have to drive downtown for a Seattle Men’s Chorus rehearsal or performance. It’s a 10 mile drive that can take anywhere from 25 minutes to 90 minutes. Its maddeningly random.
That’s great to hear .
I spent some time there in……1969 (?) and liked it a lot .
Wa. State is, IMO a nice one . pops lived out his later years in Bellingham next to Lake Whatcom, also a nice place .
Finding your forever home is a wondrous thing .
Nate
You were just a bit ahead of the curve. There is a new BMW dealership in Lynnwood!
Reminds me why I drive a Toyota (Scion). In almost 20 years It’s only ever needed a water pump (other than slapping on some dirt cheap brake pads, oil, and filters).
A belated welcome to the PNW!
I always read accounts of all the problems with PITA German cars with wry amusement as their reputation is well known among car-savvy folks and has been for years: overly-complicated engineering due to a compulsion for un-achievable perfection. Evidently they never heard of the first rule of engineering: KISS. They must have some kind of over-riding ability to satisfy other perceived needs, given repeated bitter experiences, to merit continuing ownership of such expensively flawed vehicles. It’s no secret that a Camry or Accord (or Lexus, or Acura, if perceived luxury is required), is probably better built, more reliable, cheaper initially and in the long run, and overall more satisfactory as a high quality transportation device… yet the popularity of M-B, BMW, Audi, VW persists. It’s certainly a phenomenon an economist should be able to expound on with authority.
The ‘long run’ thing depends .
I have a 41 year old Mercedes W123 Sedan, I’ve owned it for over twenty years and I like to drive it flat out and across America, I find it almost as cheap to run as my old VW Bug .
That being said, I never, _EVER_ advise anyone to buy a German automobile .
-Nate
Textbook conspicuous consumption, as elucidated by Thorstein Veblen.
Boy, you guys are sure gluttons for punishment. After four BMWs, you’ve decided to switch to MERCEDES for your next car?! Steve, I love your COAL posts, but seriously, man, you need a crash course in the true costs of total car ownership, especially with high-end cars. Read the reviews; search Google and YouTube for videos of the car you’re interested in, and owners’-reported problems; in short, do your own diligence. I think you’ll find (or have found out by now) that both Mercedes and BMW (and Audi for that matter) are rated well below the medium score for reliability and are ridiculously expensive to maintain properly. Next time you guys get a bee in your bonnet, I strongly suggest you look into Lexus. You want comfort, style and reliability? There’s really no other brand that comes close.
Just stay tuned for the next installment.
Spoiler alert: One good experience, one middling, and one horrible.
Another beautiful day in the Neighborhood, but not so beautiful with the neighbors! Beam me up, Steve! There’s No sign of intelligent life HERE. BUT never a dull moment with your posts. While watching an ad for a red MARK V for sale popped up! WTF? Can feel the check book rumbling. Your experiences with the BMW remind me to BACK ( yes,BACK) OFF on the MARK! 😎
Great COAL series so far Steve. Sorry about the troubles you and Rick have had with your Bimmers. I’ll have to agree with what others have said here regarding the insane cost of ownership of these cars.
My best friend had a 5 series very much like your first car in this COAL. It was a very nice car. He thought he’d save a few buck by going “Certified Pre-Owned” for that purchase, and traded in his 2000 Buick LeSabre for it. It wasn’t long before he realized the error of his ways. Not even a problem, just routine maintenance, he had a front brake job around the same time I had one on my 2007 Mustang. My brake job was about $230. His? – Yeah, well north of $800! for the same level of service.
After a few $100+ Oil Changes, because you HAVE to use that BMW approved oil, and a few minor problems that cost major bucks, he said screw this and traded the Bimmer in on a Hyundai Sonata. I think he was enticed by the free oil changes for life that his dealer provided.
As others have said, if you absolutely must have a luxury nameplate, get an Acura or Lexus. At least each of these is a reliable Honda or Toyota underneath, respectively.
And as a long term Cairn Terrier owner (well, personal staff member as she’s SUCH a DIVA!), your Schnauzer is an awesome choice. Terriers are the BEST!
Well ok, to paraphrase Michael Corleone, I tried to stay out, but every time they just pull me back in! 😉
I’ve never paid more than $200 per axle for brakes for my car (the E91 BMW). And in fact, the place where I source OEM parts from now has a lifetime replacement warranty which means that brakes are down to about $35/axle (which is shipping back the old parts, which would be free if I chose to take an hour and drive them back). If you really insist that the actual BMW dealer service your brakes, “BMW Value Service” today (just checked) lists brake service at $260 for the front and $430 for the rear. Of course, you will lose the pleasure of doing the work yourself and saving money for beer (or actually an ok bottle of single malt)
I believe it was my Toyota that was going through $800/axle brake jobs most recently. That was at an indy, the dealer wanted about $1000/axle. So now I’m doing Toyota brakes myself as well. (once I figured out that I didn’t need the Toyota service software in order to bleed the brakes and that standard bleeding would work fine unless I screwed up and let air into the ABS unit…which I don’t.)
Oh, and that “special BMW oil”? Nonsense. This is something that seems to derive from the fact that European auto manufacturers test oil and grade it according to whether it meets the specifications for their engines. In Europe, that accrediting body is the “ACEA” (“Association des Constructuers Européens de l’Automobile”). It’s the equivalent of the American Petroleum Institute (API). American manufacturers have always called for oil that meets their designated API specifications. European manufacturers call for oil that meets the ACEA specifications. Nowadays, most oils are accredited by both bodies (makes sense since what exactly is an “American” car nowadays?). Anyhow, BMW and BMW owners rightly assumed that they should/need to use oil that has the proper ACEA specification. Somehow, that ended up being translated by the public to mean that BMWs needed “special” BMW oil. My car uses ACEA A3/B4 oil, and there are many different oils – made by all of the name brand oil manufacturers – that meet that specification. Oh, and they cost the same as the oil that I put into the Toyota or the Honda.
Are BMWs “less reliable” than say, Hondas? Maybe, maybe not. I think that so much of this is subjective, and that filters into the various “ratings” that end up getting published. Yeah, my seat of the pants feeling – having owned nearly an equal number of Nissan/Honda/Toyota vehicles to BMWs and VWs — is that the jury is out and no “brand” is in fact more reliable than others in the case of individual experience. I know that I generally drive my vehicles up to around 150K – 200K+ miles, and once you get them to that mileage, everything is about as reliable as anything else. As I’ve written about, there’s always something broken or breaking…I just happen to generally find it more entertaining to work on the BMW than the Toyota or the Honda (although I do those too). And as to my original point (somewhere earlier in the comments), no one who intends to keep a car for the long haul should be, or likely will be, dealing with dealer service.
And as they say, “your mileage may vary” 🙂
Anecdotal evidence at best, and my friend is a small sample size, so there’s that. YMMV indeed, Jeff.
He used to take his cars to his neighborhood guy, but when he got the BMW, that guy wouldn’t work on it for whatever reason, so he fell into the dealer trap. Perhaps BMW of Towson was overpriced, either that, or he needed more than just a simple brake job.
I myself seem to be in the dealer service trap with my Honda, but they seem to be reasonable… either that, or my own “neighborhood guy” has labor rates as high as the dealer! Of course that said, my local mechanic is of the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mindset, rather than having the “you must stick to the maintenance schedule” mindset of the Honda dealer I go to for service.
Now you’ve got me wondering if the Japanese have a similar group to API or ACEA. I ask, because my Honda dealer says that it’s best to use Genuine Honda Synthetic Oil, and I just either a) have it changed there, or b) buy the oil from them at their parts counter and do it myself.
The Mustang? – eh… I change it myself with whatever Advance Auto Parts has on sale at the time, but stick to the name brands like Valvoline, Castrol, or Motorcraft if I’m feeling all OEM that day.
Maybe I need to learn to do brakes myself. That most of the time is all I need a pro to do, or anything at that skill level and above, really. I wish I had the skills to save Single Malt Scotch money! – A nice bottle of OBAN 18 for my efforts sounds great! 😉
I do tinker with the Mustang a bit, but the CX-5 and the Civic, I usually leave to the pros. Well, I haven’t had the Mazda long enough yet to need anything besides engine and cabin air filters, and a rear wiper… but I did these myself.
https://www.oilspecifications.org/jaso.php
Indeed! There are Japanese standards. Who would have guessed? (well…… 😉 )
I wouldn’t have known since I never checked them and instead just went for whatever was slippery and in bottles and the proper weight (ok…well that last bit probably also hinges on standards). Which frankly would work fine for a BMW as well.
As for brakes, I have to say that as a DIY advocate, I recommend brakes as the next step after DIY oil changes. I think that owners are scared of DIY brake jobs…because, brakes…but in fact with a brake job you can either get it right (i.e., brakes work) or wrong (brakes don’t work). So if one follows the instructions reasonably well, the chance of success is high. Which ought to be encouraging if one is inclined to be encouraged.
Well, in all fairness, I am a devotee of the “Just Rolled In” YouTube channel, and yeah, I guess some people do manage to get hung up on brake jobs.
If your Honda dealer was allowed to sell Valvoline branded oil and make an extra $1 a quart on it vs the official Honda stuff he would tell you why the Valvoline is the better product. If he could sell Walmart’s house brand oil and make $2 extra a quart he’d explain to you why that’s better for your situation. Instead he is required to stock Honda’s oil and sell that.
Ask him who makes Honda’s oil. The guy at the counter won’t tell you offhand because he likely has no idea. It apparently is a Japanese company named Idemitsu. If you saw an Idemitsu bottle of oil on your auto parts store shelf you would probably steer well clear of it, if only because they don’t spend millions marketing themselves to the consumer market like Valvoline, Pennzoil, Mobil, Castrol, or Quaker State etc. You’d just assume it was some generic swill. It’s probably pretty good, but most oils for consumer grade cars (as opposed to special applications such as for racing etc) are pretty much a commodity item.
There is likely nothing in Honda’s oil that makes it inherently better than what’s easily available elsewhere. If you look at your owner’s manual it will tell you exactly what kind of oil and what rating you need to look for. A 2018 Civic manual say the following under oil requirements:
– Genuine Honda Motor Oil 0W-20 (that’s their stuff)
– API Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil (that’s what you can get anywhere)
That right there tells you there is nothing special to their own oil since they list the common alternative.
Then look at the back of the various bottles in your auto parts store or even better Walmart and you’ll find exactly what you need and what will work just as well while keeping your warranty in force. Pretty much any synthetic 0W-20 oil commonly sold in any normal auto parts store or WalMart etc is perfectly fine.
I looked at Norm Reeves’ Honda (Cerritos, CA) site just now, they recommend for a 2018 Civic:
“Honda also recommends that you use Genuine Honda Motor Oil 0W-20. This specific oil is inspected and approved by the Environmental Protection Agency and is the official oil that Honda recommends for your Honda Civic”
What a bunch of BS. The EPA does not inspect or approve new consumer products such as motor oil. The American Petroleum Institute (API) however does do so in our market. Look at the back of a bottle of your Honda oil and look for the API rating, that’s what you want to match at WalMart.
That same dealer’s website also includes this gem of wisdom:
Signs You Need An Oil Change Include:
– Loud engine noise
– Sluggish performance
– Flashing oil light
– Thick exhaust smoke
Gee, you think? My guess it when it gets to that point it’s starting to be a little late. But they’ll happily tell you how much a new engine will cost.
Just read the manual and make sure the oil matches whatever spec is called for. If the dealer’s oil is somehow cheaper, then great. Otherwise they are a retail establishment like any other looking to profit from you and pushing whatever they are allowed to sell.
Brakes are usually not too difficult but often have a couple of little tricks, the best bet is to watch a couple of YouTube videos covering the job on your specific car so you know if you need a special (usually easily available) tool or a specific technique.
LOL!
Substitute “An Oil Change” with A New Engine.
Totally agree with what you say. Manufacturers will find any inflection point they can to instill fear in their owner base.
It clearly works.
Thanks Jim… yeah, it used to be you made sure that the SAE number or letter on back of the bottle matched your owner’s manual and you were good to go. My ex-wife was a tech at a small regional Pontiac dealer back when I had my Grand Prix. They used Quaker State. She said the same thing, that it just doesn’t matter. It only has to meet the current spec and be the correct grade for your car. She changed the oil at work for my Grand Prix GTP and her Regal GS back in the day.
Jeff: I hear you regarding the fear factor. This story is funny, so bear with me here…
My service writer at the dealer finally stopped recommending services I didn’t need on my 2016 Civic when I caught him trying to recommend a “duct sanitizing” during the pandemic (see my comment above regarding my ex-wife being a tech). I listened on the phone as he made his pitch over the phone for this $100 service. It included the Cabin Air Filter (easy to change – I do it every spring once the tree pollen is done). As to the duct sanitizing, he proceeded to read the back of a can of Lysol to me, paraphrasing (and emphasizing) the part about it kills [the coronavirus] (the back of the can actually says “coronaviruses” and has for YEARS – long before the pandemic was even a thing). The common cold is a coronavirus.
Long story short (ok, not really), I declined the service, as my ex-wife long ago taught me how to do this… turn on the AC with blower all the way up, but make sure it’s drawing in fresh air and spray the Lysol right into the intake at the cowl. $100 for this my a$$!
When I went to the dealer to pick up my car, I took a can of Lysol with me and showed him. Knowing I know a little something about cars, he’ll only recommend stuff if I really need it, like catching the brakes close when rotating the tires. His prices are comparable with my trust neighborhood guy, so I usually have him do it while it’s on the lift.
Anyway, I’ll take your suggestions under advisement regarding doing a brake job as a next step up in the DIY chain. I’ve watched my ex do it. Yeah, here’s another dealer dupe: “Resurfacing the Rotors”. She used a belt sander. Lathe? We don’t need no stinking lathe. 😉 While she had the GTP up on the lift, she made it look so easy. When she did the Mustang in front of her house once on a hydraulic jack? Not so much. I’m not so sure I want to try this, but your suggestions of YouTube videos are awesome… I’ve done several repairs to my Mustang using them. The Civic too!
The independent garage I use carries Idemitsu oil.
I just did “front brakes” on my 90K mile Toyota. Since the OEM pads had lasted a long time, I bought a new set of those for about $80. Those pads plus a pint of brake fluid, to top up what I bled out at the caliper to help retract the pads (and sucked out the reservoir with a turkey baster) maybe added up to $100 with tax.
It’s probably a good idea to bleed the full brake system if you’ve not done it and you’ve accumulated 90K+ miles. Which will set you back another $20 in brake fluid and will require a friend to pump the pedal (or if you are like me and have no friends, get a Motive bleeder for another $50 and you can do it alone.)
Of all the cars I’ve owned, four gave me flawless service. The 1972 Pinto I owned for all of three months, the 1983 and 1987 Celicae, and the 1993 LHS that I drove for three years. The last one had the much-maligned UltraDrive. Not a whiff of trouble.
As always….. your mileage may vary!
A few weeks ago I met up with an old high school classmate. We graduated in 1973 and hadn’t seen each other since the late eighties. In 1968 his dad bought a BMW 1600 (aka 1602), which my friend still owns, and a few years later a 2800CS. My friend parlayed his experience working on his dad’s cars in the driveway to a career as a BMW mechanic and for the last 20 or so years, has been the owner of a medium-sized (10 bay) independent BMW shop in LA. He described the phases of BMW ownership:
1) car is new, with warranty, roadside assistance and free service. Owner is happy.
2) car reached 50K miles and dealership convinces owner to renew the service plan for a fee. Vehicle is pretty reliable and owner doesn’t really know the retail cost of recommended service.
3) at 100K, the dealer will no longer sell a service plan.
4) at 110k, after owner recovers from cost of the first full-price service, plus maybe a minor repair or two, they switch to an independent shop.
5) at 150-200K when the independent shop gives them a quote on the transmission, cam phaser, turbo etc repair, owner decides to dump the car.
6) the independent shop owner buys the car cheap and fixes it up.
My friend drives a Range Rover with almost 400k miles and a 150-200k mile 5 series. I’m pretty sure he’s never owned a Japanese car.
OEM BMW oil must be used How to avoid warranty claims more like it and for European comfort and roadholding German cars are the ones to avoid, 12 years of reliable Citroens simply put me in another one recently other than service item both cars and a friends C4 ate starter motors which are made in Japan, and nothing else goes wrong.
Nope, that’s not legal in the United States, where the Magnuson-Moss Act makes it illegal for a warranty to be conditioned on the use of a particular brand of replacement part (or oil, fluid, etc), unless it is provided free of charge. If it is not, then warranty coverage cannot be denied as long as whatever part or supply was used meets the applicable specifications.
As one who has been driving BMWs mostly, since my first, a ’69 Bavaria, for the past 40 years, I’ll weigh in. First disclaimer, my newest BMW is a 2002, model year. I’ve worked on a few others and put 75K on a late first gen Celica.
With some exceptions such as their V8 engines, they seem to be extraordinary long lived cars. Engines, trannys, clutches etc, last a very long time. Parts, even for most older ones aren’t particularly expensive, as long as you do not go to the dealer. That said, they can be quirky and problematic, especially the electronics that can drive you crazy. They are somewhat more maintenance intensive, but not terribly so. But they’re not a ’65 Chevy either. I do have a somewhat distorted perspective as I do all my own work, but they’ve proved very inexpensive to run to very high mileage.
References. The kids came to me when the Granddaughters Ford Escape was on the DL with ATF leaking into the coolant. Dealer serviced for a number of years. $1100 for a radiator, installed. I think it was $600 installed for a new oil pan as the dealer had stripped out the aluminum on the old one, no suggestion of an oversized plug, and power steering fluid and brake fluid were empty. But not leaking, other than perhaps a very minor weepage getting things damp, but not a drip anywhere. I got a decent brand of radiator for just over $100 and a oversized drain plug for 6 bucks. Now BMW dealers might be even more expensive, but seems like many of the problems are dealer related, not vehicle related.
BMW electronics are a nightmare though.
Most people don’t work on their cars, but in this case it’d be mandatory to avoid going broke!
BMW didn’t have a Bavaria in ’69. it was a 2500 or 2800. I had a ’71 2800, bought in ’74. The Bavaria was introduced in ’71 at the behest of Max Hoffman (importer) as essentially a 2500 with the 2.8L engine. Mine (2.8L with 4 spd) was delightful to drive but they all had a major flaw: a tendency to overheat and warp heads due to an inadequate cooling system. After 2 re-builds I dumped it. We also had a ’47 2002 that was problem free, loved that thing, imo the last great BMW, should have kept it.
Oh and newer models (’90s on) are notorious for plastic engine/cooling parts that fail with quite expensive repairs resulting.
Ummm… we had ’74 2002, not ’47! lol
Yes, technically you are correct. But the chassis had many names over the years, 2500, 2800, 2800 Bavaria, 3.0 Bavaria, 3.0S, 3.0Si (let alone euro versions) and is often just referred to as the Bavaria.
However in my case, I started with a ’71 Bav 2800, with body cosmetic issues. Later I picked up a 69 2500 into which I transplanted all the Bav parts. Engine, tranny, power steering, A/C, interior, glass, dash. So really, it had everything that made it a Bavaria, but technically it was a 2500 chassis.
So I call it a Bavaria.
LMAO at the cat captions. That is my alter ego whenever I get behind a clueless pokey driver holding up the passing lane. I have gotten much better over time but that’s pretty much the default setting my brain wants to go to. I will refrain from commenting on German vehicle engineering other than to say my friends and coworkers experiences have matched and exceeded your own. On the bright side you and your spouse are smart with high earning careers so as to be able to afford said repairs without putting you in the poorhouse. I swear every trailer park I have driven past has at least one BMW or Mercedes permanently parked with flat tires due to a ridiculously expensive pending repair.
Seattle and the PNW is a beautiful and marvelous place. The last time I visited Seattle was before the Chihuly Garden And Glass was built so I long to visit it some day. Dale Chihuly’s work has always been very inspirational to me for its bold expression and vibrant colors. Also the traditional Asian Herbal Medicine stores with all the variety of high quality dried fruits and herbs that simply are not available here in the Midwest. Have fun in Seattle and thank you for all the great stories.
You have described the experiences I always feared I would have with BMW ownership.
My favorite BMW joke: What do a BMW and a hemorrhoid have in common? Sooner or later every asshole gets one.
Steve, I hear you about Seattle traffic. I live in north Seattle and work in Kent (3 days on-site, 2 days WFH). Normally it isn’t too bad, although the morning commute goes faster than the afternoon one. But every now and then, rush hour traffic becomes heinous for whatever reason. One evening a few years ago I was 2.5 hours late getting home.
If you can sing well enough to be in a chorus, more power to you. I like to sing but have gotten strong hints that I shouldn’t quit my day job.
I’ve had two German cars. The ’84 VW Quantum turbodiesel was hands down the most troublesome car I’ve ever owned, but in fairness it was tired by the time I got it. The ’87 Audi 4000 quattro was very troublefree, but parts were becoming unobtanium, and I wanted an autobox for the commute (see above).
in that vein: was it here or somewhere else I read about the difference between BMW’s and porcupines?
accordingly
“the difference is that porcupines have the pricks on the outside”
my definition of a “luxury car” is a car that rarely sees a dealership for repairs – meaning avoiding costly wastes of both time and money – there’s a reason German cars are best leased so they become other peoples problems when they fall apart
therefore there are no German “luxury” cars for me – I learned from my first and only German car purchase
and I agree with Scotty Kilmer that you buy a Toyota/Honda or Acura/Lexus if you want that type of real luxury that spares you the frequent dealership experiences
you just buy and keep the Toyotas and Hondas for their long lives
Well said Davis ! .
Folks see me out and about in my 47 year old Mercedes and say “! nice I gotta get me one of these !” and then are surprised when I tell them to never, _EVER_ buy a used German car now keep one past it’s first expen$ive repair .
-Nate