Long-time CC readers are familiar with my affinity for Volkswagens – I’ve been continually driving VW products for nearly thirty years. When my 2000 New Beetle reached 219,000 miles and nearly 13 years of age (still running strong), I was ready for something new, and after learning the ‘new design’ Beetle would soon be available as a convertible with both a TDi diesel and manual transmission option (the only such combination available in the USA), I put in an order, taking delivery in March 2013.
March was a bit cold to enjoy top-down motoring, but as soon as temps reached 60°F, I started making short runs (heater running full blast), which gradually expanded to leaving the top down all day.
I owned a Suzuki Samurai when I got married, so had somewhat experienced “convertible” motoring before, but driving a Jeep-like vehicle with the top off is different from having a true convertible – I really liked this! Fuel economy was somewhat down from my ALH-engined New Beetle: 42 vs 45 MPG on average, but for that three MPG, I had a much more powerful engine (which was lugging around 500lb more weight, natch).
Well, Summer turned to Autumn, which turned to Winter, which brought ice and snow as usual. This is when the first major inherent design flaw of the car reared its head (so to speak). The door glass on the car is of a frameless design with seals on the A-pillar and along the roof that have a C-channel cross-section. While this does help them seal better in driving rain (I still got a little leakage in the corners), it also means the glass must drop down about 10mm in order to open or close the door. In above-freezing weather, this happens automatically and you don’t think twice about it.
Unfortunately, the lower seal (inside the door, not the one at the sill) started freezing to the glass anytime moisture was present. The window motors are not strong enough to break the ice’s grip, so the window doesn’t drop and you can’t open the door without forcibly yanking it past the upper seals. When you close the door, the glass is now stuck on the *outside* of the upper seals where no sealing happens, making for a cold, drafty ride. Only by cranking the heat all the way up and worrying the window switches several dozen times would it finally break free. The VW dealer confessed they had numerous complaints (the Beetle Coupe suffers the same issue) and could only offer to spray silicone along the seal as a temporary “fix.”
Adding insult to injury, I started having problems starting the car on really cold days after it had sat and cold-soaked in our windy, unprotected parking lot at work (note the temperature on the gauge). After several near no-starts, I took the car back to the selling dealer, where they told me “diesels just run different when it’s cold.” Uh, yeah. At a different dealer, they again confessed to numerous other TDis suffering the same issue. They offered to “look at it” in a few weeks when they could fit my in their schedule, but thankfully right at that moment, one of their Techs happened to walk past, and overhearing our conversation, offered to go look at it in the parking lot on the spot.
Three minutes later, he said I needed the “Cold Weather Intercooler Kit,” which was covered under a TSB. The design of the ex-factory intake air plumbing was such that water, snow or condensation would collect and freeze, gradually blocking off intake air to the point where the engine would not start. Three weeks later, the kit came in and the work was done, which seemed to correct the problem, although I still had a recurring stumble every morning as the engine warmed up during the first couple miles. My “Spidey Sense™” was starting to tingle at this point, because this was starting to remind me of the numerous issues I had with my New Beetle during its first half-dozen years of ownership (“moanership”).
Spring eventually came, followed by a relatively cool Summer, during which I enjoyed the open air every chance I could. As we approached Autumn again, I began to think ahead to the issues I would again face during Winter. I loved the TDi’s torque and the car was comfortable on long trips. However, it was not really an engaging car to drive, being very numb relative to my former New Beetle. Additionally, while I knew I would be giving up a lot of utility with the convertible, it turned out that I frequently found myself having to take the truck or my wife’s Routan to carry items bulkier than a suitcase. There were a half-dozen other annoyances that were starting to get under my skin (including bluetooth audio cutting off the first second of every new song and the dished rear spoiler dumping water all over everything when the trunk lid was opened after a rain).
After taking stock, I decided that I simply wasn’t as happy with the car any more and didn’t want to have to deal with the car’s Winter issues again (and again and again, as I typically aim to keep my cars over ten years). I ran the numbers through various “trade-in value” calculators online and found I could get enough out of it to swap close to even on a replacement. The depreciation hit would of course hurt, but by this point, I was ready to call the game and move on.
Once that decision was made, I had to start thinking about a replacement. Come back tomorrow to see what made the cut!
###
Related Reading:
COAL Comparison: Three Generations of Beetle
Future CC: What Car Would You Choose To Drive For The Next Decade?
Sorry to hear about the issues. I guess that’s why convertibles look best in California.
I’m surprised about the cold start issues as I hadn’t read of any issues with other models using the same engine. Was there a running change somewhere that altered something? I’ve never had a problem starting my 2011 Jetta TDI though Vancouver really isn’t that cold. Even after leaving it at the airport for 2 weeks one January it started the second try.
what did you replace her with?
It said at the end,
“Once that decision was made, I had to start thinking about a replacement. Come back tomorrow to see what made the cut!”
In the lead pic, the car is sitting in a used car lot with a front plate advertising “Bob Lindsey Honda”. If he was buying a cheap commuter, as implied by the even up trade for the VW, probably a Fit.
Good for him. There comes a time when you just have to admit that German engineering excellence was really West German engineering excellence. That’s an excellent time to buy a Honda. The sitz-to-pinkle Germans of today do have an eye for trendiness though. The retro wheels on this car are brilliant.
Look carefully in the background though. Wieland’s Lawnmower Hospital. Maybe he sold it to the Honda dealer and used the cash on a little number with big back wheels, spinning blades and a bucket on the front.
Shhhhhh! Don’t spoil it for tomorrow!
As an owner, a caretaker and a lover of the Volkswagen brand I’m sorry to see you leave our family. I do understand your frustration owning a TDI in the cold conditions (and a convertible to boot). I saw a lot of NO-STARTs at my dealer with TDIs when I lived in St. Louis Mo. This new convertible is much improved over the earlier new beetle. The top on the old model was prone to breaking a lot. I now live in phoenix and we have another set of problems with cars due to the heat. (cooking batteries every two years) Extreme temperatures do affect cars. So I do hope you give VW another chance in the future. New and exciting products are coming soon.
I’m still in the family – I have two early ’60s Beetles (both of which are undergoing very long and drawn out restorations).
I own a 67 beetle also along with our Jettas.
We’ve had our brown, manual, VW 2013 TDI Sportwagen for almost 40k miles with zero issues and no warranty claims. It’s solid, well built, and reliable. Best of all, it averages 42 mpg. However, we still have an extended warranty just in case.
One would ever think a VW would have these issues during winter, as there are many TDis sold all over Europe, with temperatures similar to those you showed on the photo. My father in law had a 1995 Golf TDi (in Poland)and never had those issues during winter.
Too bad you are parting ways with this car. It’s looked really cool.
This is -22 Fahrenheit.
Well, it gets even colder there in PL, like -31F.
Where in Poland? I’ve been there a few times during winter and never experienced anything extremely cold. That and Sweden were downright bearable compared to Midwest USA.
Boy, if my ’82 Mercedes 240D would have reliably started down to
even 20 degrees Fahrenheit in Chicago, without my having to plug it
into a block heater, I would really have kept it forever….
and you’re complaining that it almost
didn’t start at -22. Ah, how we’ve all grown soft..
I’ve had a 2001 Passat wagon since 2003 and have wanted to get rid of
it every year since my second year of ownership. Congrats on
getting rid of yours now!
Oh it would start fine until enough moisture / ice built up to restrict intake airflow. I never had to plug it in or use additive, unlike my New Beetle.
Without the window freezing and intake icing problems, it would have been just fine in the winter.
It would seem to be specific to the new Beetle only. I wonder if it is similar to something I remember reading about the 3.5 Ecoboost F-150s?
Sad. The picture of you top down in front of the brick structure, make it black and white, photoshop Europe 1950 in the background and other than sheer bumper to bumper size the Beetle would not look all that out of place.
Here you go!
I saw a similar black convertible the other day, sans the trim rings, it looked even more somber, my first thought was that it looked like a Kdf Wagen.
Losing my mind here, I can’t recall where I saw in the past few days that convertible sales are generally off, down to about 1% of new registrations compared to 2% a few years ago. We Boomers and near late Boomers were part of the revival that was mainly kicked off by the Chrysler LeBaron and are starting to shrink in numbers, and the younger folks just aren’t buying. Of course, Toyota and Chrysler exiting the market undoubedly has some impact as well.
I really liked your convertible, the black and tan colors and retro wheels (wheel covers?) were just the way I’d order one. I likely would have bought an automatic, and I’m not sure of the engine line up at this time, but I’d go for a normally aspirated gasser if I could.
Still, the auto window retraction feature would be a problem for me as well since I live in cold country. You wrote the definitive review on this car.
Well, I admit that I was a bit surprised by your choice, since I seem to remember you having a few issues with “Herbie” too. Frankly, the complexity of the latest generation of TDi engines scares me. I understand that replacing the ultra-high pressure pump/injection system is quite expensive if/when it goes after the warranty expires.
I love how they drive, but since I keep my cars a long time, it just wasn’t on my radar.
…the complexity of the latest generation of TDi engines scares me.
Worries me too. It’s not just a matter of filling the tank with “ad blue” juice, but the issue of the particle filter getting clogged if you make a lot of short trips. The fuel pump issues are well documented. VeeDub keeps modifying the pump, but it will be a long time before I would trust them to have gotten it right.
Turbochargers are another entire class of things to go wrong.
When I was at the Detroit auto show last January, I picked the brain of the rep at the VW stand mercilessly about their new gas TSi engines: turbocharges, exhaust manifold integrated in the head, two coolant pumps (one engine driven, one electric) some sort of pressure equalization valve in the cooling system? The automotive press loves it, but I’ll stay well clear until it’s been out in the world 6-8 years.
The iced intake issue sounds like my 70 Cougar. One cold winter of short trips, which prevented the 351 ever getting warmed up, enough ice formed that, while it would start, it wouldn’t rev.
My Jetta wagon, having the old gas 5 banger, never failed to fire on the first turn, in spite of Michigan’s subzero temps last winter.
The issue with the windows freezing shut reminds me of my 85 GLC. There was something about the design of the door seals that water would get in around the window frame and freeze the doors shut. After enough times struggling to get a door open, any door, one time I ended up crawling in through the hatch, I figured out to use my spray can of lock deicer to spray around the window frame.
Spoiler dumping rain/snow in the trunk? My GLC’s doors not only would freeze shut, but snow would pack in around the window frame, and drop on the seat when the door was opened.
It’s always a let down when a new car doesn’t work out as planned. There were things I really liked about my Taurus-X, but I quickly tired of horsing around such a huge vehicle, then the rod knock started, and the power steering started acting weird, and the tach was acting weird. Bye bye T-Rex, hello Jetta.
Relativity is everything. I have a Freestyle (Taurus X) and it’s my sports car. But, it runs against an ’02 Durango and an F-150 crew cab.
Relativity is everything. I have a Freestyle (Taurus X) and it’s my sports car.
I kept telling myself “it isn’t that big”, as the T-Rex was only about 6 inches longer than the Cougar I had in college. but it came after a run of Renault R5/Mazda GLC/Civic/Escort, and those extra 2-3 feet of length made it a pain in the kazoo, particularly getting into my condo, where getting in/out of my garage is very cramped. Within days of getting the Jetta, I was zipping into parking spots that would have required a lot of planning and wheel twisting in the T-Rex.
The Cougar was an entirely different issue that was the carb icing the venturi in a carb causes a pressure drop which is what makes a carb work. The pressure drop causes a temp drop which in turn causes ice to form. The ice forms on the venturi which is where the fuel comes out for the off idle circuit blocking off the flow of fuel.
In this case the water condenses in the intercooler and then freezes in the natural way and blocks off the air flow.
Sorry to hear that it didn’t work out Ed, but as they say, it’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all…Well, maybe, divorces tend to be costly so maybe not but whatever. I hope the next one works out better than this one for you in any case. Looking forward to tomorrow’s conclusion!
Family friends in Vermont bought twin 88 Golfs powered by gasoline and they got rid of the last one in the early 2000s when it would not start at -30 F so the fact your much newer VW had that issue among others I do not blame you for dumping it. I would not even feel bad for the next owner since it is a buyers beware market and personally late model used vehicles on dealer lots usually raise red flags for me. Do you miss Herbie?
These articles at Curbside Classic have given me a lot of food for thought when I begin to look for a used or new vehicle.
I actually do miss Herbie a lot! However, with the race-spec suspension I had retrofitted, he really was not a good highway cruiser (rattled your kidneys out). Huge fun to drive on a curvy road, though!
Just buy a Peugeot or Citroen you get the excellent ride comfort and roadholding a VW would dream of thrown in free.
The French appear to be scared of our market. Peugeot was the last to give up, back in 1991. We’ll see if they try again, there are perpetual rumors.
I am surprised that a stiff race suspension was not good for highway cruising since highways (at least Interstates) are usually quite smooth.
I would figure a stiff race suspension would be brutal on secondary roads and backroads like the ones we have in Central New York.
You’ve never driven in Illinois, have you? (c:
I was just thinking that as well. Driving the 911 back from Auburn I-80 in Indiana with its frost heaves was horrible (not sure how they can charge tolls for such a miserable road), will avoid next time, IL was not great either, lots of bad expansion joints, Iowa was OK for the most part, Nebraska hit or miss (at least they seem to be replacing most of it continuously), WY was good and has an 80mph limit to boot and northern CO was borderline with the concrete starting to fall apart and thus under construction. I love my car but SeVair’s Seville or either of today’s Camrys would undoubtedly be more comfortable especially when constrained by traffic.
Never been anywhere else in Illinois other than I-90 and I-80 in an 05 Sedona which has more road noise than our former 95 Voyager.
Living in Florida again (moved back after a 20+ year “re-location”) I figured my next new to me car MIGHT be a convertible. Unfortunately, it rains A LOT in “the sunshine state” so I’ve begun to think a vehicle with a lot of ground clearance would be a better choice. The only thing that combines both a removable top and ground clearance is the Wrangler….unless I’m forgetting something.
Convertibles are disappearing partly because they aren’t as secure as a hardtop but also because so many car buyers are crash conscious.
Note that the fact my car was a convertible wasn’t so much the issue (other than the tiny trunk opening that severely limited utility). I live in a rural area, so security wasn’t a huge factor, either. The car has excellent safety features, including rollover bars that pop up out of the B-pillar area instantly in a crash.
I did, however, come to realize that there just aren’t that many top-down-friendly days, even here in the Middle West. 80°F is the sweet spot, and that only if the wind’s not howling 20MPH+ like it frequently does out here on the prairie. When the weather was good, having the top down was fantastic. The rest of the time, I might as well have had the Coupe, which would have at least had better rear ¾ visibility and a usable trunk.
There’s the Murano CrossCabriolet too 😛
Dang, looks like we thought the same thing, within one minute of each other. Great minds…
The only thing that combines both a removable top and ground clearance is the Wrangler….unless I’m forgetting something.
Maybe it was your subconscious forcing you to forget this styling abomination, but I’m surprised they didn’t sell better in FL/CA/HI. Maybe if Nissan has sold less loaded ones the rental companies might have picked up on them.
Reports of this kind are gold on the internet for someone researching a new or used car to buy. You hear the drive-by comments all the time about VW quality but this report matches almost exactly the kinds of issues that have affected every VW owned by a friend or family member since 1974. I still love the cars but it’s helpful to know, with a well documented report like this, that a lot of the VW bashing is well-deserved even to this day.
I’ve only driven one New Beetle, an early hardtop, and was wondering how a “new” New Beetle with TDI would drive. That word “numb” you used is very telling and will be helpful for anyone researching what these convertibles drive like. Great job.
The Kia Soul is insanely popular in LA right now, like Top 3 selling cars popular. Love the design and the colors but I’ve never driven one. Every time I see one in traffic my mood brightens and I find myself checking out that front even though I’ve seen it a million times. Here is a case where a clever, memorable, fitting pet name beats alphanumerics all day long. I hope you buy one and give us a full report in a year.
I’ve looked at the Flex (another great pet name) many times for my Dad, it’s just too big but I like it. I would want one with the Eco-Boost but hear (thanks internet!) there are fuel economy and reliability issues with those. The non-FR-S Scions are all so generic now. The Fit is OK, it’s grown on me but still prefer the original. I liked the Mazda 3 until I saw the Mazda 2. I may get a 2 myself. The Cube would be super cool and has become a bit of a cult car which improves resale value. I’d read Doug DeMuro’s posts on the one he had to see how it drives. I think he liked it pretty well. You can’t go wrong with a Mini Cooper Classic just seems a bit played out. I would have picked the FJ for being both a cult car and fine design but I think the poor utility from those rear doors is going to bother you.
That word “numb” you used is very telling and will be helpful for anyone researching what these convertibles drive like
Everything I have had since the 85 GLC has been numb…the GLC, manual steering, was the last car that I could feel the texture of the road in my fingertips. I instantly knew if I was driving on ice. When I got the 98 Civic, first power steering in 18 years, my brain was constantly screaming “Ice!!!” because I couldn’t feel the road.
My Jetta, electric steering, is no number than the numb steering in the Civic or the two Ford’s I had over the last 10 years. Once in a while though, I’ll take a corner a little faster than normal, and the Jetta seems to come alive, like the G loads compress all the rubber and the feel starts to come through.
My New Beetle had much better road feel than the ’13… and after I rebuilt the entire suspension with aftermarket parts, it handled like it was on rails – very neutral and it practically read your thoughts. The ’13 soaked up our potholed Illinois roads just fine (the IRS kept it planted nicely even in bumpy curves), but you “steered” the car, you didn’t “drive” it. I never could get a nice exit out of a tight curve like I could with the NB. Great for highway cruising, but not much fun for anything else.
I didn’t mention in the post about how the interior had gotten very rattly and buzzy after only 18 months. Part of that’s due to it being a drop-head, but it was definitely a quality disconnect.
Germans look with disdain at our American fascination with cupholders, and it shows in their designs. The New Beetle’s cupholders were practically useless. The Beetle’s were only slightly better. There were actually a number of little cubbyholes in the ’13, but they were all in awkward locations that made them of questionable usefulness.
Another thing that irked me was that the doors only had one intermediant detent when open, and the detent was very weak, which meant the door almost always swung back on you as you were trying to enter or exit. The location of the detent was such that you couldn’t really use it in a tight parking spot. It was always a challenge trying to get in quickly during a rain due to fighting that darned door!
For a car that pushes $30K US loaded, I expected better. Much better.
I noticed that weird detent issue in Dad’s bug, too. Very tricky for a tall guy to get in and out of the back seat because of this.
One of Edmund’s long-term test vehicles is a 2014 VW Passat TSI and they have had the opposite experience: they love the door detents. Too bad the superior design for the Passat wasn’t transferred to the Beetle:
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/passat/2014/long-term-road-test/2014-volkswagen-passat-tsi-i-love-the-doors.html
I have myself a Mazda 2. It is a great little car. Emphasis on the little which can be both a positive and negative. It is a eager and toss-able. I see it more as a spiritual Mini successor than the actual modern MINI. I find the current MINI a little over done and perhaps a touch pretentious (the car not the owners). No denying the 2 is a small package though – we used it as our only family car for a while and things got a little tight at times.
I’m on my second Soul now, having just picked up a 2015 lux model. I’ve never bought the same model of car 2x in a row, so that’s saying something. I’m loving this new gen Soul a lot so far.
That’s great to hear! I love everything about it, the price, size, originality and even the marketing and name. Kudos to Kia for trying something different.
That’s a shame, it looks like such a great car, top up or top down.
Don’t the Germans test all their cars above the Arctic Circle? Hell my ’63 Bug had a “cold weather intercooler kit” called a pipe from the heater to the intake with a flap valve.
An old Italian car might have such troubles, but a 21st century VW? Very sad.
I have heard of fuel stations in cold-weather countries in Europe carrying a different (winterized) spec of diesel fuel in winter to prevent the fuel from gelling. Any such thing in the US?
I’m asking just out of interest. It wouldn’t cure intake icing if that’s what the TDIs have in cold winters.
Yes, we have “winter diesel” here. My New Beetle (also a TDI) didn’t like really cold weather, so I had to use additive and make sure I changed the fuel strainer each November. The ’13 never had a gelling issue, even without using additive, so at least they got that right.
Winter diesel is to prevent the fuel from gelling in cold temps which prevents it from flowing. This problem is water freezing in the intercooler and preventing the air from flowing.
I feel your pain and understand your decision all too well. In late 2011, I purchased a Hyundai Veloster. It was good on gas, kind of sporty, and stood out. We already had a truck, so this was the “fun car”.
Once our Canadian winter set in, I started to not like the car.
– It didn’t like starting in cold weather (It was in the shop 5 times for this)
– The centre mounted exhaust pipes would cause the rear window and backup camera to fog up in cold weather to the point where I couldn’t see anymore.
– The panoramic sunroof was really hot in the summer and cold in the winter, even with the shade closed.
– Back seats were too small for my pre-teen kids and that fancy single rear door was actually pretty annoying.
– The nav screen didn’t like cold weather either and was unresponsive at really low temperatures.
– It was noisy and generally uncomfortable.
Needless to say after not quite two years, I traded it in on a 2011 Ford Taurus. It has none of the issues I listed above. I think I made the right choice.
I did look briefly at the Veloster… five minutes was enough.
And the choices are….
Scion
Scion
Scion
Honda
Kia
Mazda
Nissan
Toyota
Mini
and
Ford
What? No Vegas or Chevettes? Maybe a nice Oldsmobile diesel? I know those shlubby sloppy GM cars are awful, but hey, you had a VW, I mean, you’re used to suffering right? Right!
Come on down and see what Roger Smith is offering over at the local Chevrolet dealer. I’m sure theres a nice Chevette Rallye 1.6 we can get you into! 4 speed too! I’ll guarantee you’ll be satisfied for weeks, maybe!
Tell ’em Carmine sentcha!!
I have a permanent search in my eBay app for “1971 Chevrolet Vega Notchback.” Unfortunately, the only ones that keep turning up all have SBCs. (c:
I’m still a VW owner – have the ’62 sunroof and ’63 sedan to finish rebuilding (the ’63 will get sold to finance both projects). Nothing puts a grin on my face like driving a vintage Bug.
It was tongue in cheek, but seriously though, did you take a look at a Sonic or a Spark?
Nope. I swore off GM products years ago… (c:
I’ve not been impressed with the ones I’ve rented over the years, either.
I swear the 2014 Vega is much better than the 1974 one.
In my ten years of continuous parking my GM cars outside in the coldest of cold and the hottest of hot, only one has not started, once, and that was probably because of a full tank of “bad gas”. In those -22F days (-60 wind chills) my GM’s would turn over immediately. I love that GM cars are tough in winter! I recall one Governor in dire straits declare “These other cars are not made for our region!!!!!” and boy was he right.
Compared to VW Group products GM is very reliable, but that’s not saying very much.
you turned your back on GM and with VW. that’s funny 🙂
” Nothing puts a grin on my face like driving a vintage Bug.”
Glad to hear this ~ me too although the misery of owning air cooled VW’s in So. Cal. finally drove me away from them .
Last night my Son and I were pushing old Beetles around his front & back yards as he’s selling off the Oval Window Baja Buggy and the ’74 (?) # 117 Sunroof Beetle with Subaru engine , as we rolled my old ’60 # 117 DeLuxe Sunshine Roof Beetle into his back yard I reminisced a bit , we were talking about me maybe buying a ’67 5 speed 5 gauge Porsche 912 and I said , well , maybe one last 36HP Oval Window with crashbox tranny instead…….
I got some pictures of him standing next to the various old VW’s , going to put them on my mantle .
-Nate
Being a long term resident of Soviet Cancukistan, coming from a garage background and being just plain cheap, diesels don’t work in cold weather. If you live in a climate where it is often below -10’C, diesels simply aren’t worth the hassle you get with them. First, you really need a place to plug them in when they are stopped. Second, the cost of buying the diesel option to begin with means you are going to have to drive an awful lot to save the cost of buying and and finally, any out of warranty repair is going to be outrageously expensive. To add insult to injury, diesel was selling for 10 cents a litre more than gasoline last night, wiping out a good 10% of the mythical “diesel savings.”
The kind of issues you mention are simply not acceptable for any car, especially a new one. However, VW owners love their cars, and I can understand why: the cars drive really well, and because of this, VW owners think nothing of pumping money into their Mexican built pieces of German Craftsmanship (a real oxymoron if there ever was one).
But hey, some guys just love pumping money into cars. I am just not one of them.
On the other hand my Jetta gets 800 km per tank in city driving (plus seats 4 extremely comfortably and has a huge trunk). I’d never go back to owning a gas powered car.
The long legs of the diesel are one primary reason I came back to the well in the first place. My NB could touch 700 miles out of a tank, and usually averaged around 600. The Beetle wasn’t quite as good, but it wasn’t hard to top 500 miles on a tank. Given that I’ve made the 16 hour trip to my Dad’s three times this year (he has Dementia and is my passenger in the photo above), I appreciated only having to fuel up three times for the whole round trip.
My dad’s Jetta was really cheap to run, too.
Until it needed a $2500 injection pump.
In fairness, Vancouver doesn’t actually get cold weather. 🙂
Most diesel VW’s seem to retain a significantly larger proportion of their original price relative to their gasoline equivalent, at least down here in the US, thus making up for the increased purchase price or actually returning more than the original incremental additional cost. While we no longer have our diesel Touareg, we both sorely miss the fact that we could routinely and easily go 600 miles without getting near a gas station, that factor turned out to be worth way more (and difficult to monetize) than we thought to us. Thank you for not perpetuating the fallacy that the AdBlue fluid is outrageously expensive or difficult to deal with as it is neither.
Despite having nearly 220,000 miles, I sold Herbie at a premium (literally double what a gas model would have gone for) because of the TDI and because I had kept the car up over the years.
So $200 instead of a $100?
Heyoooooo!
“I’ll be here all week – try the veal!”
what was the price of all that upkeep?
Not bad, really. The most expensive was the exhaust and rebuilding the suspension, both of which I could have done at much lower cost if I hadn’t gone with upgrades for both. Amortized over the 13 years I had the car, it wasn’t a huge deal.
Today in Calgary, diesel is about the same as regular gas: $ 1.15/litre. In past years, diesel would be up to $ 0.10 cheaper in the summer months, and the same or a few cents more than premium gas in the winter.
I loved the utility, design, size, interior and six speed manual of a Jetta wagon TDi and have repeatedly been lured by the cars.
Thankfully I resisted the siren’s call and opted for a simple Ford Focus hatchback. No diesel available, one fewer gear, complicated (even silly) dashboard, not as useful as a nice squared off wagon but it is a Ford. And I am quite happy with the car, going into its 4th winter now. It is always reliable and works just fine in severe cold – which happens in the Rocky Mountains. Does have heated seats and heated mirrors as part of a “winter package”.
I am leery of both the repeated issues VW owners seem to have with keeping the cars running properly and with the dearth of dealers in the mountain west a Ford is my solution as there are Ford dealers everywhere. The above story about the diesel Volkswagen just confirms my prejudices and the judgments I have made.
Too bad the Bug didn’t work out for you Ed, it’s a very attractive car to my eyes. It is quite the contrast to hearing about my Dad’s experience with his 2012 2.0T coupe with DSG. No problems whatsoever. He lives in Minnesota, and hasn’t had the freezing window issue many people report. The lack of road feel/grip may be a tire/size difference, as his is equipped with the 19in “Tornado” wheels and ContiSport tires, and it feels like a slingshot to me. My biggest surprise is the fuel economy difference; Dad reports an average of 34 mpg (he does drive conservatively) in an even mix, and on a road trip from his home to mine in Chicago, we were getting just north of 37. I would have expected the diesel to do better. To each their own, I guess. I hope your new choice is a better match for you in the long haul.
Never good falling out of love with a car. Its one thing when you settle for something at purchase, but when you get exactly what you want and things go bad, yuck. When Ed Stembridge sours on VW, this is bad.
So it *is* a Deadly Sin, then! (c:
It just now occurs to me that you are the second long term owner VW has lost this month. My sister has driven VWs for about 30 years, almost all of them diesels. In recent years she had cycled between her 04 Jetta wagon and her 05 Jeep Liberty diesel. The Veedub for gas mileage and load carrying and the Jeep for bad weather (she’s a nurse who drives some distance).
She finally gave in and bought a single behicle that has the best (mostly) of both: a 15 Subaru Outback. CC effect? Look out, VW.
My best friend was a big VW fan. She had nothing but Jettas since she started driving at 16. In 2012 she bought one of the last Kia Sorentos with a stick shift and never looked back. I guess it is hard to compare a Kia with a VW. As Kia gives you so much more. Reliable cars, friendly dealers and service people. 50,000 mile or 100,000 warranty(dependent if you were the first buyer of the car(you get a 100,000 mile warranty) or a 2nd or 3rd owner(you get what is left of the warranty up till 50,000 miles) )
With VW you get the following:
1. Unreliable cars
2. Arrogant dealers and techs
3. Crap resale value
I wonder how many folks who were first time VW buyers, bought a different brand when they replaced it?
I think Ed got a Kia Soul or Honda Fit
“Come back tomorrow to see what made the cut!”
The Beetle now wears a Honda dealer plate . Hmm…
And there’s a Fit parked right next to it…
Sorry to hear that your Bug didn’t live up to your expectations. Too bad, because to my eyes, it is decidedly better looking than ‘old new beetles’ and it also looks better than the rear-engined classic, at least to me.
Regarding the engine starting trouble – well, such cold temperatures (-22F which is -30C, yikes!) are really brutal and quite hard on diesels. And perhaps the diesel fuel you used just wasn’t ‘winterized’ enough. Still, I agree one would expect better from a brand new 2013 car.
I will say this: to my mind, convertibles and diesel engines don’t go well together (like wearing sneakers with a business suit). Although I haven’t yet owned a convertible myself, I just couldn’t imagine pairing it with a diesel. With a drop-top, you have to get a gasoline engine, that’s my opinion. Especially in modern VW with their TSIs (turbocharged gas engines) which are a dream to drive – good amount of torque from 1500rpm all the way to 6000+rpm, but without the noise, clatter, smell and vibration of a diesel…
Noise, Clatter vibration of a diesel? really in my Citroen you can barely here the engine at all never mind tell what fuel it uses perhaps you need to buy better cars instead of poorly built German rubbish.
You are probably right, at least to some extent. I used to like German cars, but it appears that German brands, VW in particular, have recently begun to slip up, judging from what I hear and also from my own experience. I was very happy with my 2007 Golf TDI which gave me six years of trouble-free service and I very much liked driving it. The 2010 WV Touran currently serving my family not so trouble free (one of the DSG’s clutches already had to be replaced, thankfully under warranty) but at least DSG shifts beautifully and TSI engine runs quietly and smoothly, overall a really decent vehicle. Recently however, I had the chance to drive a new 2013 VW Tiguan (‘baby Touareg’) and was not particularly impressed by its 2.0 diesel. I hated the vibration (which was much more noticeable than in my 2007 Golf), I hated the start&stop system, and overall the car didn’t feel as good as I was used to in Volkswagens.
So don’t worry, it’s not likely that I will be buying much German iron in the future, because anyway, as of lately I have developed a fascination with American V8s, so my next car will be something along these lines.
And yes, diesels clatter and vibrate – granted, not so much if the engine (and the whole car) has been built properly, but no diesel offers the same smoothness as a good gasoline engine*. And this is coming from a guy who really liked the 1.9 TDI in the 2007 VW Golf.
*non-turbocharged engines under 1.6 liter do not count here; in my opinion it has to be either a big displacement engine (preferably more than 4 cylinders) or a turbocharged engine.
Your understanding of modern diesels isn’t accurate. This engine was quiet and had zero soot or odor. The crucial test was my wife, who is super-sensitive to odors, and practically refused to ride in my New Beetle TDI because of same. She tried riding in the convertible (top down), and said she loved it – no odors at all.
The cold weather issues had nothing to do with the fuel system gelling or anything like that – it was a poor intercooler intake design that led to snow or condensation accumulating and then freezing, choking off intake air. There are documented cases where VWs with this problem were parked in a warm garage to thaw the ice and then subsequently bricked the engine by ingesting the resulting slug of water. Just a poor design. The “Cold Weather Intercooler Fix” basically consists of a poppet valve in the low spot in the intake plumbing to help keep moisture drained.
Honestly, had the car not had the window and intake freezing issues, I would have probably just kept living with the other issues… glutton for punishment and all that.
How does the sound of your diesel convertible compare to the “old new” Beetle Herbie? My neighbor has a diesel 2004 Beetle, and while its noise is nothing like diesels of yore or a big truck, I can still definitely ID it as a diesel coming up behind me if I’m out walking. It’s not necessarily louder, but it’s definitely distinctive. I only say this because I can see that noise, even being comparatively unobtrusive, as being less “romantic” sounding for some people with the top down.
You’re definitely 100% right about diesels not being the clattery, sooty nightmares they once were. I consider myself a big fan of modern diesels (did a research paper in college on the benefits of diesel passenger cars), I’ve never owned one, but I definitely would. I’ve driven a diesel X5, and found it completely unobtrusive, you wouldn’t even know it’s a diesel by driving if it wasn’t for the low redline.
You have to listen closely to tell it’s a diesel. My new car has a direct injection gas engine, and it sounds very similar.
I hear that for sure. Our 2011 Sonata and 2013 Altima both have DI gas engines, and they both sound borderline diesel-like at startup and idle from outside the car; inside, no big deal. Well worth the sacrifice for the amazing MPGs, in my opinion.
You need to look at a modern diesel again. There is virtually NO extra noise compared to a modern gasoline engine, and I would say no noise increase whatsoever compared to a modern Direct Injection gasoline engine (which is a bit louder than a non GDI engine). There is ZERO odor. The clatter and vibration is probably 99% gone, what is left is a little bit of character rather than not even realizing the engine is on, not unappealing at all. Modern passenger car diesels are NOTHING like a big Cummins pickup truck diesel. Heck, Porsche now offers diesel (the VW ones, actually) in several of their lines, a 70’s era diesel would not exactly be in line with their overall image.
” There is virtually NO extra noise compared to a modern gasoline engine”
Yes, there is.
” There is ZERO odor.”
Again, not true.
” The clatter and vibration is probably 99% gone, what is left is a little bit of character rather than not even realizing the engine is on”
As I said, diesel vibration is not gone (it never will be). In my experience, a newer (and more high-end / pricier) VW had more vibration than an older one. Maybe it was that particular example, but the car was practically brand new…
” Modern passenger car diesels are NOTHING like a big Cummins pickup truck diesel.”
sigh… dude, I’m a European. I see (and hear) diesels of every type and age every day on the streets, I drove and I rode in many of them. I even like some of them. But I’m telling you, even the most modern diesels (except perhaps in most luxurious cars) can not compare with modern (or even older) gasoline engines when it comes to quietness, smoothness and vibration-free operation.
When I got out of a modern diesel and back into my car with gasoline engine, I felt as if I was driving an electric car.
There is really no need to be patronizing “Sigh…dude, I’m a European..” I am as well, just don’t live there at present.
Your experience simply is different from mine. I’m speaking of my old 2012 Touareg with a 3.0l V6 TDI engine. And also the 2.0 TDI that we get over here in smaller VW’s – both of which seem to be larger than the commonly sold European market size/version engine in the equivalent car. Compared to the equivalent gas versions in the same US cars I hold my beliefs to hold true. They simply are not “clattering, vibrating, sooty” engines over here.
As regards some other engines available in Europe in either different displacement, configuration or from different manufacturers, you may well be correct, I don’t know.
That being said, get out of most any VW (gas or diesel) that is available over here and into a modern Honda for example, the Honda’s engine is generally smoother and quieter.
My neighbor has a brand new VW Golf Wagon 2.0 TDI. It’s not brown, it’s black. No stick either, DSG. But it’s actually very quiet around 5.15 am. About the time he drives to work and I get up.
The hell with them turps sippers. I want 3.0 TDI BiTurbo or M550d on my daily driver’s decklid once I hit the jackpot.
Honda has very good diesel engines actually. They got one major issue though: nobody is buying them.
OK, I didn’t mean to sound patronizing or anything, but if we’re talking about cars the size of current Beetle (which is the size most common in Europe), I just got the feeling that your opinions on diesels in compact cars were based more on theory than practice – or, as you mentioned yourself, your experience is based more on what I would consider a premium car and not what a typical European these days is driving. A Touareg is overall a more refined car than a Golf or a Passat, and I would gladly believe its V6 diesel runs more smoothly than a 4-cylinder, just because it’s a V6.
And yes, if you are referring to a 2012 Touareg as an ‘old car’, then I agree, my experience really is different from yours 🙂
But I still maintain that in average plebeian cars, diesels do not run as smoothly and quietly as gasoline engines. The only exception could be engine noise at motorway speeds where naturally aspirated small gasoline engines often run at 4000+rpm, whereas a diesel (or a small-displacement turbocharged gasoline engine!) would typically run at 2200-2600 rpm for the same speed.
No, I totally get it. It’s just that over here the common misconception is that diesels have not advanced since the early 80’s. And then some people still seem to think that DEF (urea) costs huge amounts of money and has to be refilled with every fuel stop. The smallest diesels here are 2liters as far as I am aware; we do not get the smaller ones that you do. So I think we are on the same page, no worries. In regard to the Touareg, ours is old to me since we no longer have it, it’s still current tech though!
It’s amazing how VW cannot find its way back to the roots of their success. In 1959 the Renault Dauphine actually outsold the Beetle in much of the US. In the 1960’s VW blew right past the Dauphine and all of the other imports of the time, knocking many of them out of the US market entirely. How? By building a dead-bang reliable car and giving it top notch dealer support.
+1
Exactly, A Jetta or Rabbit/Golf/whatever VW calls it’s hatchback this year would be on my short list of cars to consider…but I need decent dealers and good reliability, and VW consistently misses the mark.
I never have been a Diesel fan, and the higher cost of fuel and post 2006 emission requirements, plus cold starting issues and poor tolerance of short trips around town have kept me away. There is no excuse for the window retracting problem other then poor design, execution and testing. I would pretty much expect handling of a convertible to not be on par with a hardtop. It is good VW figured out the icing problem, but again that should have been discovered and repaired before the car was released. As nice as convertible’s are in the summer, the inherent shortcomings and expenses,(especially come top replacement time, or some kid with a box knife that can’t resist being a punk) have kept me from ever owning one. I think it’s still wise to avoid a Mexico built VW. The US built cars were also sub par in the 80’s, I don’t know about the cars built today in the US. If the German built 86 Jetta with 300k miles finally does have a major failure (it can’t go forever), I doubt a VW will replace it. I might consider a German built Golf. That is a great looking car, you made the right decision to say goodbye while it was under warranty and in the early stage of depreciation. I worked for VW from 1974 to 2004, when VW got away from it’s German factories and tried to reduce pricing at the expense of quality, it was a major mistake.
Ed
Was the taste in your mouth that bad that you didn’t consider going with a solid roof version of the same?
The Coupe would have had the same issues since it has the same frameless window and intercooler design.
Agree 67Conti; it really surprises me that the frameless window seal problem made it to production. It’s not like they don’t have rain and snow in German winters or that VW doesn’t do cold climate testing…. Stories like this make it very unlikely I’ll ever buy a new car. This kind of stuff would just FRY me after I ponied up all that money!
Ive owned 5 Jeeps…a mix of CJs and Wranglers. Bear in mind those aren’t convertibles in the ‘normal’ sense. A convertible can go from closed to open and back with either the flick of a button or some manual coaxing. Jeeps have detachable roofs. Yes, some of the newer ones have a foldable soft top, but the windows need to be zipped out and stored. Rolling them up and stashing them in the Jeep is do-able in a pinch, but its no good for the windows.
Any open vehicle takes a certain amount of love and dedication from an owner. No, they are NOT quiet or comfy…nothing like a fixed roof. And rain will become the devil. When I rented an apartment in Memphis (T-storms every other day) I did the soft top shuffle in a down pour at 4AM in my boxers prolly a thousand times. But to this day, I will always be a Jeep guy…convenience be damned.
When I bought my townhouse, my Jeep was my 2nd rig and I immediately stripped off the 8 year old but still somewhat serviceable softtop gear…sold it on craigslist. The full doors, my bikini top, and my tonneau cover are as covered up as it ever got. Raining? No prob, drive my Cruiser…Jeep is tucked away in the garage. 20 degrees but clear? Heater on blast, NY Giants beanie, and my heaviest motorcycle jacket.
For every minute of frustration, my Jeeps paid me back with a lifetime of fun. Whether it was trail bashing down in southern Oregon, cruising for babes on a summer nite or even my daily commute…there are VERY few times when I really felt more like myself when driving my Jeeps with something taken off of them and some good hard rock coming thru the speakers. I could be having the worst day at work ever, or going thru some drama with the floozie of the week or whatever, but an open ride in my Jeep made the world right again, even for a few miles worth. THATS what driving is supposed to feel like! Much as I love the Rumble Bee, I miss my big ass yellow Jeep the most of the 5. I will have another!
I have to say that the “new” Beetle looks absolutely huge around you! I for one really don’t like this version of the Beetle mainly because how huge it has become. The old Kübelwagen… i dont like it but i have to admire its simplicity. The 1st gen New Beetle… i sort of liked it because the uncluttered neo-retro design. Except for the badge nothing of it screamed Volkswagen. And it was still a small car. But this one.. as a convertible it looks like a bathtub on wheels, as a coupe it looks like a current gen Mini. The bulk feels bloated like one of the newer Wranglers.. and the thing looks exactly like any other small Volkswagen.
And, I mean it’s the size of an old Citroen Xsara Picasso compact MPV. And that could comfortably seat 5 heavyset 6’5″ guys. Can’t see the Beetle doing that any time soon.
Sorry, got a bit carried away.
Huh. After the initial celebration of “Oh yay, the Beetle is back!”, they did nothing for me. The distance to the windshield was ridiculous.
The new model is much more sophisticated – I can see a Porsche influence in the design. While I’m not a big fan of tan tops, Ed’s (former) car is gorgeous. Too bad it didn’t work out.
I’ve always been hesitant with VW’s. A friend of mine has owned several (he leases) and while the fit and finish is excellent, strange issues pop up.
That’s a nice tan Pontiac – I think – sitting next to the Bug on the dealer lot.
That is a Beige 08-12 Accord.
Those Accords make lovely Pontiacs.
What seems to be the problem, Mr. Stembridge ?